Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 3.33–3.66 ref

Most people don't know what the International Organization for Standardization is, so asking them to go from unlabeled times to full ISO notation is unfeasible.

Developing habits in small steps makes them easier and more natural. Making them unintrusive in everyday use makes them more likely to stick. That's why I say "USD," use military time, and append times with "PST/PDT" but haven't worked my way up to "UTC-08:00" yet :P

Was about to edit the OP , but i would lose all the links , website bug.

Time was GMT + 1

links prefaced with "http://" don't break after editing anymore.

Forgive me I was joking.

Forgive me for missing the joke, then XD

After a lifetime of school papers one stops joking about lengthy standardizations (unless it's MLA, which can suck it :3)

Well that settles it not longer accepting keys for any trades now the key is no longer a "stable" currency. Even if it's rising right now, it's sure to fall at somepoint to a number I can not predict.

Kinda of reminds me of an economics lecture I got once on the price of precious metals. Something about the Hunt Brothers trying to take over the market for silver and then price of Silver plunges.

Here Backpack.tf = Hunt Brothers and Silver = Keys

Just for reference in 2000 USD value Silver had went from about $70 an ounce to $5 an ounce because of what the Hunt Brothers did.

Why would keys drop in the future? I see nothing indicating that currently. Valve would need to do something to fuck shit up for keys to fall.

because everyone will eventually be too fed up with spending 600 of their hard-earned weapons one one unboxing.

demand will fall because nobody will bother putting up with them anymore, and the price will drop.

What? Unboxing is one very small aspect of the use for keys. The demand for them will remain high because they are a currency used for trading.

Unless if the idlers themselves decide to no longer buy keys, only then would the market crash. An average player doesn't have that much on hand. Only big traders and big idlers do

Are you seriously telling me that only big traders and idlers have that ref to buy keys on hand? What you just told me is just complete BS.

They are able to buy massive amounts of them with almost no effort whatsoever.

careful...I smell denial

So what would you say is a stable currency?

here i've just created some proof for you all.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7575904

look, this guy has sold 45 keys for 4.55. looks legit. we need to raise prices NOW!

Now that is quite alot of proof

And some people still sell for 2.33:D

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8103225

Next we will see someone sell a quarter for 4 nickels.

I've seen people in trade rooms sell keys for 3 weapons each. But one person doesn't make a price :-)

that guy probably hasn't played in like a year! you got lucky.

Fucking hell u are ruining the economy and and making everything complicated downvote

You and me know this doesnt work like that , be fair please.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8092102[/url] If only you had waited a few more days.

Im selling foe the same price as everyone i am selling at that cos if i sold for less and need to buy more keys then im losing out if the price goes back too 2.66 i wouldnt argue

The price needs to be put down

That would be price manipulation.

Fucking hell u are ruining the economy and and making everything complicated flagged

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/510082baba2536d940000000

^ Mine was closed a day ago

But here's some more proof

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7972799 < I sold 3 keys for 4 ref, one trader wanted two keys and the second trader bought one..I was shocked that I sold any

hey guys i hear valve is putting the ref as a purchasable item for 1 euro each in store and will add that in the market too !!has anyone here something more than that?

If thats true , keys would be 2 refined

no it wouldn't be, that's not how economics work. firstly because no one in their right mind would buy it from the store when there are so many people farming cheap metal in the market. and even if they do it will just mean oversupply all over again and key prices will in fact rise even further. the only way is if valve somehow manages to stop metal farming.

wrong!

if you can get keys for 2 euro and ref for 1

you cant rise the price of the key beacause noone will buy it simple as that!

they can do it.. the day that ref is in the market the game is over for farmers!cause valve is the mother of all farmers!! ref was supposed to be free and dropable but that is something that is about to change!

valve time is now and i think we are living in the graetest time in mannconomy!

its epic!! i suggest everyone to move into ref if they want to save their hard trade earnings as keys are will crash like you have never witnessed before! all it takes its an update and vuala!!you are bankrapt !! lol

well good luck with your theory.

valve does what the users like, and nobody likes their backpack to crash.

This is the exact same guy that argued taking 2 buds off self made keys would damage creators of items, like they don't already earn possible thousands of dollars from their work.

Good luck with anything that goes on in your tiny mind.

valve will NEVER make ref only purchasable because their whole crafting system depends on weapons being dropped and so on. also this would defeat the purpose of valve making the game f2p. you need to understand that tf2 is an experimentation 1st and money making tool 2nd.

making refined only purchasable would ultimately crash any way of trading as we know it, there is nobody who can know what's gonna happen if they do that and they will never take that risk..my speculation would be: only very few people are gonna buy refined, valve would ultimately lose 1 currency (metal) and people would go back to trading items for items and metal will become a sweetener only, pure deals are gonna stop permanently

look mate valve has actually cap the ref by capping the amount of metal is drop in an account if more ref was equal to more keys sells then valve would remove the cap from drops!thats not the case here ,but what whould happen if the ref where only purchasable??

yes farmers yould go out of buiseness and thats something valve is fine with!!

valve would have gain control of its market once again...win win win!

People already buy keys to turn them into metal, valve would be damaging their own key sales.

Aren't rumors fun when they're incredibly wrong?

basically you are wrong in this mate !!!keys will be in less demand but everyone will need more ref!! and will buy it!!because ref its useful for more things than just buying and uncrating!

>keys will be in less demand but everyone will need more ref!!

doubtful. I get metal for free every week. if you want you can buy it for far less that 1 euro atm.

>because ref its useful for more things than just buying and uncrating!

... I can't think of any other uses. Sure you can craft a hat, but it'd just be cheaper to trade for craft hats anyway.

well its rumors!! you shall wait and see what will happened!!i have personally suggest this to happened ofcourse on the official group everyone is excited about it!!

well if you can buy 1 key and get 4 ref for it because you need the ref!valve will see that and use it to profit !! it will give you the option to buy ref from store for half price of keys and it will cap the keys prices at the same time !! that means they will earn more money because i will be able to buy 1 key for 2 ref !! as such the ref farms will evaporate the offer of keys in seconds everyone that needs new keys or ref goes to market and buy back from steam again

!! its not that complicated really! its like simple maths!

i personaly prefer to buy the ref than waiting to drop!!

I just hope people aren't starting rumors to try to crash the market.

If you can buy ref from the store, I don't think it will sell unless if they remove ref as a crafting ingredient.

Could you take these nonsensical ideas somewhere else? Not sure if this is a poor manipulation attempt or if you really believe this.

I have been talking to him in the past and he just has a very poor understanding of how markets work, combined with very poor english skills and there u go, u get rumors that are both wrong and useless..let me tell u that making refined available in store is not gonna positively effect the market at all if u make it 1€ each, only very few people will buy it and stick with keys, if you make it cheap enough that people will consider buying it (let's say 60 cents) it will have the opposite effect: less keys will be available and more ref will be bought, ultimately raising the price of keys..u would need a MAJOR update to make it impossible to craft refined that easily (something that would increase the value of refined, e.g. 4 weps make 1 scrap instead of 2)..basically to crash the market, u'd need a completely new way of trading and Valve is not gonna bother doing that, simply because there is no need..just to sum it up, the rumor u r spreading is wrong, wouldn't help the mannconomy at all and the market is never gonna crash unless Valve pushes through a major update that changes everything we know..this is no opinion, it's basic economics, there is no way around that

>well if you can buy 1 key and get 4 ref for it because you need the ref!valve will see that and use it to profit !! it will give you the option to buy ref from store for half price of keys

so you're saying I can either spend $2.49 and get a key worth 4 ref, or spend $2.00 and get 2 ref.

>its like simple maths!

sure is

oh god, it's this kid again

Somehow, the increase of key prices reminds me of Solyndra...

Actually it would be more relevant to Idle farming and falling ref prices, as falling silicon prices was what made Solyndra uncompetitive, but even that's a stretch.

Allow Jon Stewart of the Daily Show toshow you how wrong you are: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-september-15-2011/that-custom-tailored-obama-scandal-you-ordered-is-finally-here

good proof, tf2finance suggests that there are still keys bought for 3.33 and 3.44, so a wider range seems like a good way to reflect the current market situation

Oh my god just accept this price already, there were so many of them. Upvote from me, because it's actually pretty fucking right.

UPVOTE! I freaking love this price. Thx! It seems suitable.

The way key sales work.

Price is 2.55

Sellers sell at 2.66

Buyers buy at 2.55

Backpack.tf raises the price.

Sellers sell at 3.66

Buyers buy at 3.33

Repeat.

The market will eventually crash.

If backpack.tf could magically manipulate the market like that then wouldn't we get way more troll suggestions?

It is the way the key market goes, not so much backpack.tf. It is better than the dreaded spreadsheet.

Much like all this hype with the hats going out.

[Let me vent here] A Vintage _______ Hasn't been available for 2 freakin years. WHY is the fadora at a bill's hat price @_@

Sellers sell at high prices for profit.

Buyers buy low, someone caves, and ban. Seller gets high price, and then we modify the value as standard, and then everyone else sells at that price, and then it goes higher and higher. Until people realize how dumb paying 5 refined for a keys is.

The Vintage starter hats haven't been available for 2 years, but their cheaper alternatives have been. When those cheap versions weren't available, the increased prices and demand traveled up the chain to their vintage counterparts.

If you want a more complete explanation go to the forums or add me, there's already 4 off-topic conversations in this suggestion.

It actually does, but it happens so fast that it doesn't show up easily. Especially in the current situation we are in with so many metal farmers.

There are a bunch, and I mean a bunch, of key sellers on outpost that will change their price to 1 scrap above whatever the price is here the day it is changed. They do this because the average player is not their target audience. Their target audience is metal farmers. The average key price will always rise on Friday/Saturday because you have all of these metal farmers liquidating their metal stock.

Metal farmers don't worry about trying to find THE cheapest price and searching on servers, etc. They just buy from these people who can offer large amounts of keys instantly. These are the people who are currently buying for 3.66. Rarely anybody was buying for 3.66 prior to Thursday.

So yes, backpack.tf DOES influence the price of keys when they increase the price.

Duly noted. If that's the case then I must question if bulk key sellers should be considered in our price listings when, by your own explanation, they don't target or sell to average traders.

Selling successfully doesn't validate their sales if they're selling to a fringe market.

Well, I did a little experiment on my own to see if it was true. Tried selling 10 keys for 36 ref the last few days. 0 bites. Nobody was willing to pay 3.6 each.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8105445

I bet if I posted it today, it will sell very easily.

3.55 is still selling relatively slowly for me. the reason why there appears to be a price increase is because the way this site inteprets proof.

take my trade for example, i change the price up and down depending on whether i need to sell quickly for metal or not. so depending on whichever day my trade is used as 'proof' it can be higher or lower.

and right now i've generated a piece of 'proof' that keys are selling at 4.55 ref. this is simply to illustrate the flaws of this proof system. i.e. the data used is very questionable. in fact wouldn't it be better to just use tf2finance's price and get rid of the range since at least they use actual steam trading data.

Don't worry, I've got multiple trades out testing the waters. So far, no bites at 3.66 or 10 for 36.

Lowering my prices to 3.55 as I've only sold 1 at 3.66. Not worth the time to bump it if they don't sell.

i tried to sell keys for 3.66 and had no interest either.

This is how it was with 3.44 first aswell, When I made my suggestion, I was getting adds for the price, but they removed me when I said I had like 7-8 keys at a time, so I posted the suggestion and tried to sell the keys the next day...They sold faster then rolls dipped in gabens pool of hot butter :3...Conciedence? I THINK NOT! (talking about the one accepted for 3.22-3.44 btw)

And what's so special about that? Naturally bulk deals will happen more towards the lower end and small quantity deals more towards the upper end of the price range. Like banks, Key re-sellers have the function to break large quantities into small. This proves nothing.

given that your trades bump every 2 hours, you should be able to get some people to buy your keys, which in this case, is nobody.

The problem is most sellers and buyers on tf2 outpost target the fringes of the price ranges. Sellers target the people pay the most, quickbuyers target the people who would pay the least. Rarely anybody tries to sell in the middle now. It's like the entire community has become bipolar.

thats why valve is planning to ad ref in sore so to stop the rise in farms and eventually will remove the smelt weapons to metall add on

Putting metal in the store wouldn't have any effect on metal farming.

And we covered above how counter-intuitive and pointless buyable metal would be. Please stop spreading blatantly false rumors.

i suugest the metal to stop dropping at any rate !! only hats drop ant weapons and weapons that are all uncraftable!! why you think clean update took place!!i am waiting but i am sure i am right!! because thats what i would do!!if i was gabe!

Why would valve even put dirty weapons to the drop? Do you think the mann co store is just for looks?

sure after the clean is the market update and everything is making sense!!

clear craftables hats and weapons from store only!! deops only uncraftable!!put ref in store for 1 euro each!!!what you think this is!!plain imagination!!thing is gabe wants all the money that goes around buds and unusuals to return to their rightfull place back to valve!

well thats something i have propose to gabe personally in the past to remove the crafting ability from weapons and hats that drop and provide ref from store and market!!thats the answer for money getting out of valves offices!!right here!

That has to be one of the worst ideas ever. What happens to new players? "Hey, what are all these recipes? Oh cool, I can craft weapons I don't have. Wait, none of the items I have can be used to make the ones I want? Only paying players can craft? Fuck this game, I quit!"

Also crafting would be broken as hell: Want a loose cannon? $2.50 or craft it with 3 loch+loads($6) and 0.33ref($0.33)

Where's the source of this rumor? The mann co. store has never been used for buying crafting materials, it's meant to be a place for you to buy the exact hat you want or some consumables.

How is adding ref in store preventing farms? It will tremendously increase farming because its easy money. And since metal will be overstocked in the market, it means that keys will be priced much higher. Remove the ability to smelt weapons? Are you forgetting bout F2Ps and people who just play TF2 for fun?

oh but we do alright how about the suggestions for the self made keys?? i didn`t even knew you could suggest in such items and i am still looking to find out how you suggest in self made items !!

and i wasnt able to find a way to suggest on one ! yet someone has already did a suggestion for all self made keys and the suggestion 2 buds down pass the votings!! noone cares what is going on here !! but everyone can tell those behind this sight have made their selfs rich

It does magically manipulate the key market because of the sheer amount of people that use bp.tf to price their keys.

Someone just did, blatantly put in the description "people think these are crap, so I thought I would raise them a bit"

yep xD trollllllllllllllllling

No, the way it works is, if people are willing to buy at a higher price, then backpack reflects that.

I 100% agree with you. the market is going to get so fucked up by this NOBODY is going to buy keys anymore.

Something I've wanted to know for awhile is why the key value will drop suddenly. I've thought about it, but I couldn't work it out logically in my head, if the trend of "sellers selling at one scrap higher than bp.tf's price, bp raises price, repeat" continues. Mind explaining why it will crash just to clarify things?

yes the market will crash

agreed, the market will crash

See my post below for my argument against your post.

This has always happened: People like to sell for a scrap or two more than any price guide. This has been happening for years. This time last year, keys were mostly 2.5 refined and there were always a lot of people who wanted to sell for more but often failed because there were still plenty of people who sold for lower. The difference now is that people are actually paying more and more each time. Why does no one ever acknowledge this? Buy-cheap-and-sell-expensive has always been happening.

I have summarized my feelings about this suggestion as well as all of the key price suggestions in the past month into this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgI2ZQVyrBo

actually, i heard that because of the christmas and halloween update, players went on buying naughty, nice, and eerie keys. plus they used them. so normal keys price went up. i think it'll go down again eventually.

If I get 1000 likes my daddy is guna buy me a key

I've reckoned the markets been heading for crash for ages, keys can't do this forever, they've gone way off their "gradual increase in value" pattern.

If people continue to pay the higher price, we have a responsibility to report the higher price.

We don't raise the price of keys. We report what has already happened.

Though I don't agree with everything you said, I hope this comment gets to 100 likes before this trade is decided upon.

"posted 4 days ago" - today - buyer price 3.44-3.66 seller price 3.77-4 ref FML!

The future of key pricing is 3.44, 3.77, 4.00, 5.00, 6.22, 2 keys for my key, add me if you are interested.

Everyone stealing my material. ;-;

Why not Zoidberg? (V) (;,,;) (V)

3.66 is highballers price. You should put then links buying for 3 ref too. Then the new range would be the 3-3.66 ref were lowball and highball are included

Except people actually buy for 3.66.

and some people actually sell for 3 ref

ehm... Like?

Check wtb trades.

we're talking Successful trades here, not requests.

How do you know they are not successfull? Because I am

1- http://tf2finance.com/keys/

1 Key = 3.47 Refined

Jan 25, 2013 GMT

Still under 3.55

2- http://scrap.tf/keys many stock for 3.55

3- Edit : http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8163774

within a minute bought it 3.44 easy

http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/12038353/img/12038353.png

no higher than 3.55 atm devote

"2- http://scrap.tf/keys many stock for 3.55"

Out of Stock

Mhm many stock for sure...

right now is 3.46 dont need an raise at the moment 3.44 isnt so hard to find

Invest in 2012 festives guys:

most are worth a ref and they will rise. almost as good as refs.

On the matter of keys:

I really think this is going to go through. I dont play too much trading anymore but i would really like to see how far this will go. Honestly, I want to see these reach ridiculous ass prices ike 5-6 ref. It will be funny to see where it will go from there.

If you dont like it guys DONT BUY IT. The price only moves so people can make profit. If no one wants to buy for 3.66 then it wouldnt be that high. Problem: PEOPLE ARE WILLING TO BUY!

true story, i blame the stupid buyers not the sellers

it's not entirely their fault. keys are just a faulty currency, considering they have an alternative use that leads to them being destroyed

I agree, people are always going to buy keys. People want to unbox and are going to pay the going rate.

I really don't see the price dropping anytime soon either without 'higher up' intervention to shake the market up (ie. keys going on sale for $2.00 on the Mann Co. Store...)

Anyway, upvote for me. Can barely get any for 3.33 anymore...

>Invest in 2012 festives guys

go for it. I will give a hearty chuckle when they don't magically rise like the 2011 ones like people expect

They will rise. Not as big of a range as people expect, but they will.

There will be demand for it, and a limited supply, and that would cause the price to go up. The supply for the 2011 ones are even lower and the demand even higher, so the price would go up even higher.

It could also be argued that since so many people over-speculated on them, they will be forced to sell at a lower price to get rid of them. The big reason the 2011 festives did so well was because there was nothing else like them. This year, the vast majority of people opened naughty crates instead of nice and flooded the market.

only time will tell

They will rise for sure. There is no doubt about that, in my mind at least. The only question is when is the best time to sell them? Kind of like the bmoc last year, you already know that sellers are going to hype up the festives when halloween comes. Especially since they invested so much in them. I just wonder when is the proper time to sell them. I think BMOC hit its peak like in Halloween, lol. So maybe around then?

Another suggestion... We don't need One. Downvoted. That is Higballers' Proof.

Sadly these are just going to keep rising.

NOO!NO!NO!DOWNVOTE!

great counter-argument

Upvote. I have sold lots for 3.66 and it is very hard to buy at 3.33.

Not many people buy keys for 3.55, that I've encountered. 3.44 is already substantially more than people want to pay. Any higher, I feel that we would be robbing the average players. This key market is going to crash any day now. This can't keep going where three hats are selling for a key. Every single item in the TF2 economy is depreciating in value when the price of metal goes down. The price of keys remains unchanged since the beginning, it's always been $2.49 to obtain keys. It's the prices of everything else in the game that are plummeting.

sadly, there's just too much proof here to say otherwise...

it is soon approaching that 3 craft hats will fit into a key....god help us.

Exactly. Which is why I'm buying a shitload of keys from the store for my own personal gain >:D Yes, It's manipulative, but prices change over time anyways. This price will drop in a few months or weeks anyways, so just save your metal.

what the hell is you guys problem! keys used to be 2.55 and look now! WTF MAN! IT'S MONEY! YOU'RE MAD! how can you DOUBLE the price! let's put it up to 5 refs then!! you guys are ruining the game...

Do you think that you are the first person who says that? Be more original

No idea how it ruins the game, as the main aim of the game isn't trading.

Seriously. Things go up in price, things go down in price. It's not like this post has no proof, it has the proof and it well organized at that.

This isn't a place for you to whine about prices. If you don't have anything constructive to offer, save your soapbox for people who will care.

Actually, DOUBLE PRICE OF 2.55 REF=5.1 ref.

3.66 ref is not a 100 % increase of price. It has not reached 5 ref.

If it makes you feel better then I'll point out the fact that there is a bounded upper limit: If metal becomes so common from the metal farmers that it becomes worth as little as one cent then keys can always be bought for $2.49 at most so the very highest that a key can cost you in refined metal is 249.

Really it won't become higher than seven refined.

Soon it gonna be 4 ref...

Traders are already buying keys for 4 ref..it's rare but will happen more often within a few weeks

That's good it'll be easier to count up in trade window lol

i got one guy selling for 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8103225

i bought 3 haha

bought one for 3.33 just a minute ago~

Question for anyone: should I sell my keys for metal, so I'm protected when keys crash, or should I wait until they hit 4 ref?

Take it to the forums.

Who is still capable of paying keys above 3.55, speculators? crazy guys? noob? I prefer to wait that the key goes back below 3.33.

This reminds me of those kids who rage when I reject their duel requests on idle/trade servers without time limits.

There were 6 tf2 keys at scrap.tf about 15 mins ago, last one from those gone around 5 mins ago. Now when I write this, it has 8 keys again.

In my opinion until it doesn't reach ~3.55 or more on tf2finance, there is no need to rise it.. Atm it is 3.46, in the current range. Downvote from me.

doomsday is upon us! the end is near! the key crash is inevitable!

*stops preaching his warnings, asks a man for spare change-goes back to saying*

the end is near! heed my warning!

*more people walk by, some spit on him, ignoring him, a few months later the inevitable crash places the economy into a great depression(for about as week)*

thank you! thanks alot, stay tuned for more of my screenplays!

ok for reals now, should i upvote? most of these suggestions get accepted anyway.

plz fix valve.

valve!? what can they do, they won't likely fix this, you do realise this happened to buds, they used to be 8 keys! They are now over 3 times the price. Valve never fixed that, Its normal now.

but this is affecting metal, which is an much more important part of the mannconomy. also buds are limited unlike keys so of course the price went up

Metal's important to YOU but a lot of TF2 players have more than 200 hours and therefore have more valuable items/don't think much of metal.

well acually...Im pretty sure valve WANTED this to happen (call me crazy but...) why buy keys for 2.50$ (usd) when you can wait a while and buy one...for free!?!?!

Keys pls stahp

A suggestion just like this was close a couple days ago.. What makes this anyone different?

The only reason the price goes up is because people on Outpost look at the price, and then add .33 to it and want profit.

Keys need to go back down. it is fucking up the market and also keys are not like promos where they rise in value. they are being baught more and more every day.

After close to 4 hours of bumping every 30 minutes today, I have sold 0 keys at 10 for 36 refined. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8105445

If I can't sell them at 3.6, 3.66 isn't the price.

Doesnt really count if you wont sell separate...

Sure it counts.

No not really. You're going for an even smaller market of buyers.

Go sell them separate. There's probably a lot more people who want 1 or 2 or 3 Keys and thats all the metal they have and will pay 3.66

You have to wait for that one guy who wants 10 keys and has 36 ref

Instead of that guy with 3.66 and wants 1 key.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8175613

Feel better?

I'm sure I will get the same results.

I had MULTIPLE people add me offering 3.44-3.55 each on my other trade. Not 1 person added me to offer 3.66.

Edit: 1.5 hours in. Not a single add.

Oh would you look at that. One buyer just appeared.

Yep....1 key in 5 hours. I'm not doing this out of personal interested...I make more profit if the price goes up (same with buds). It's just too early to call 3.66 the price.

I remember how long it took to sell at 2.66 even when it was 2.66

But it does look a little slow

Right now at 3.55, I've sold around 15 in 4 hours. That looks like a good top-end range to me. If it was as the OP described, I would have sold 100 by now.

It looked slow. maybe 3.66 isnt quite there.

But i guess ill try it out myself and put 5 keys for sale. and see how it goes

Trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8239931

You're right. 3.66 hardly sells

2 keys sold took 1 day

No, it doesn't. Most key sales involve 2-3 keys. Re-list your trade as selling keys for 3.66 refined each. I think you'll find that more people will add you.

I've sold plenty for 3.66, it's definitely possible and very easy at that.

Also what Liddojunior said.

whenever the key rises, the people on outpost sell it for 1 or 2 scrap higher, making the people buy it for higher. Lesson of the day, stop buying keys for so high. The people buying keys are the ones inflating the price

Yes, yes and yes. Thank you.

Not voting for the fact that I am just going to buy keys now and stop wasting my time trying to get keys for metal.

As much as I hate this, the proof speaks for itself. Upvoting.

*redies the nuce* I'm done.

as i hate keys riseing but more and more players are unboxing and not buying keys

from man co so :O

The way things are going, there will be no difference between mann co and steam marketplace prices.

Downvote

Remember selling keys at 2.3? Those were the good ol' days with none of this serious pricing using finance and shit.

Downvote

Ah, the good old days, when a noob f2p (like I once was) could actually trade up to something worth having. Now with key prices like this it's almost impossible to start from scratch and build up to a good bp.

well...As always...The rich get richer...The poor get poorer...

It's sad watching the economy slowly strangle itself due to player greed. Like watching a terminal cancer patient in the last couple months. This whole metal farming/resell for higher than you bought cycle is starting to stink of the tragedy of the commons.

If this passes, I really question why..

I submitted just as much proof yesterday.

to think that it all started with a kid who overpaid for a key and posted on this site...

As a community we have to make the price for keys fixed if we want to continue using them as a "currency." It's destroying the market if we keep raising the price of the currency, people need to stop inflating key prices.

If the price is fixed even though its actual price is higher, you could say that it's price manipulation.

And it would make a lot of item values wrong.

Yeah, currencies don't ever change in value...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_exchange_market

hehe this made me think of the greace and their "economy"

3.33-3.66 ref = 3.50 avg

The current avg is 3.49 as of this minute.

It's got a chance now for approval

Got one proof

Buyer:

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8185550[/url] - 3.66

Upvote for me

backpack.tf says 3.33, people on outpost sell for 3.44, then people here increase price to 3.44, people on outpost sell for 3.55, then here price increases to 3.55, people on outpost sell for 3.66. and so on..

if we changed prices here to 5 ref, traders will sell for 5 ref or more..but no one but desperate people will buy keys, so few keys will be sold that it will crash.

*hmmm hmm... "thats what you said last time" (no really it is 0_0) but as always people will throw away ref like a person throws away toilet paper...like a peice of paper...covered in sh*t.

You are wrong. The same reasoning has been used since keys were raised to 3 ref. People claimed no one would buy them but the most desperate and they would crash. And obviously, people still bought keys. Keys could get to 5 ref and they won't crash. There is no way to guess where the breaking point will be (if there ever will be). All we can do is go based on what history has shown us.

Every time I see a new key price suggestion that suggests that it should go up, I cry. It's going up every week.

Around every friday actually, that's the time metal farmers' weapons stop dropping and they liquidate for other peoples retarded highball prices, which is then used as backpack.tf proof and is possibly manipulated with their alts or something of the like. can't really stop it.

I'm just thinking about your description "dont start a flame war please." People don't care if you say please :P

Its funny how poeple is using the flag button as a dislike button

it not supposed to be ?

Thats what im trying to mean?

Dislike button now, you are happy now yes?

scrap.tf has priced keys at 3.33 for selling and 3.55 for buying.

I'm sure someone occasionally sells keys but someone quickly buys it up. I've never seen any stock.

As of 3am PST 1/26/2013:

http://tf2wh-charts.chrishowie.com/overstock/5021/6/

Despite being priced at 10600/11000 credits (about 2.5/2.6 refined using a 450 credit to scrap ratio) there were still over 150 keys in stock in the WH. Given the current market where people are demanding 3.33+ refined, these keys are hard to get a hold of but people don't seen to have a problem with selling them to the WH at this price.

meh, its cause :

A: key prices on WH are bullshit to begin with

B: alot of people dont realize its that low

C: always overstocked on matal

D: sometimes they have a high amount of credits want a hat and need to sell

E: (more BS reasons why this isnt counter proof)

and then you counter proof is some how busted out, skimp on the details and you get this : iz gud deel

(btw)

the WH aurgument is not a bad one, just will be shot down for...reasons :|

There may be 150 sitting in the WH but go try and reserve one. Any new ones that come in are reserved before the reserve button even lights up. Even when you know the pattern for when the warehouse allows you to reserve a new batch of items, there is still several minutes of frantic clicking to try and get a few. A week ago, it took me 3 hours and about 20 minutes of clicking as fast as I could to reserve a total of 13 keys and I consider that really successful.

I'm aware that its hard to buy them at that price, since the price is over 2 reclaimed cheaper than the usual going rate but my point is that there were quite a few keys traded for that price to the WH. Not the dozen or so "proofs" that usually serve as justification for any sort of price bump on this site, but _150_ keys.

i sell vintage lugers in steam market that i buy for 9 keys for 21 euros i buy keys from steam market for 1.7 max euro each! bam huge profit i really believe that steam market is the only way you can profit now days!

Couldn't resist

Downvote, many sellers on outpost selling for 3.55 ref. Unless you a key flipper it should be a downvote.

My proof doesnt agree with your unproved statement

You proved there should be an upvote then with that statement.

3.50 is the average for his range submitted

http://puu.sh/1SU5S

"Outpost is full o lowballers and people that sell for expensive price"

"PROOF"

Oh my tf2finance shows 3.5 ref. http://tf2finance.com/keys

NO NO NO NO, DOWNVOTE. THEY (higballers on OP) WILL ONLY RAISE THER PRICE ACCORDING TO WHAT WE SAY. WERE NOT DOING ANYTHING WRONG, THEY ARE. BUT WE CAN STOP THEM BY JUST KEEEPING IT THE SAME! and no, im not sorry about the caps. This must be heard!

Nobody heard it ,by the way some people read it.

Capital letters /=/ be right

That, sir, would be price manipulation.

I was about to say the same thing.

As much as I would like to agree with you, Hugh Jazz is right.

Sold ~ 10 keys for 3.66ref each.Not for tf2outpost,on servers :)

once upon a time everyone sold for 2.66 now one sold for 2.77 they made a sugestien how awesome he sold one at more than everyone else and gave proof now he bought all that he could buy at 2.66 and made a new STANDARD price of 2,77 that cam from 2.66 to 2.77 to 2.88 to 3 3 ref!! to 3.33 to

now its nearly 3.66 everyone stand together and stand away from these prices

like paste and show to your friends sorry for my bad english

I was going to like your comment but then I realized you're a like wh***.

i don't sell any and i don't buy any and don't need any sympathy

Oh my again, tf2finance had dropped back to 3.43 ref now. http://tf2finance.com/keys

Seems to happen every 24hrs.

Look at the dip on the graph.

It dips every time when the less likely traders are awake and the rest are asleep it seems :| hmmm

Yeah, the finance page dips when the European countries are awake and not the united states.

So I've noticed that there is a recurring argument among the people who don't believe key prices "should" be so high.

"Key sellers always sell one scrap above the current price. Once they've sold successfully for that amount, they have proof of it, and a higher price is accepted. Then the cycle repeats." -The argument most of the "key haters" use.

Now, this argument is logical, but it is not true. Let me tell you why:

Keys have been holding steady for a couple years before the price spike at 2.33-2.66 refined. By their logic, keys would have increased by a scrap every 1-2 weeks and keys would already be at 10 refined. That has not happened. Therefore that can not be the reason that keys are rising.

Allow me to explain why keys are rising and will not fall anytime soon:

This whole key phenomenon started back in halloween when new unusual effects were announced. More over, these effects were announced to only be able to be unboxed during that time period. Therefore, many were going on unboxing sprees, causing key sellers to be sold out very quickly. After that, the remaining people with keys set their prices higher. The unboxers were forced to pay their prices in order to get quick keys to get the chance of acquiring a shiny new limited edition hat. So the price of keys rose. After everything was over, the key sellers still sold at their higher prices, and they did not go down. I'll explain why in a bit.

So then you have to ask yourself, why did keys keep going up after that? I'll tell you why.

The steam market. The reason the steam market caused keys to skyrocket is that metal was not marketable, while keys were. Therefore, it caused metal to crash. That's right folks, keys did not go up, metal went down! So then the price of keys in metal skyrocketed because of the worthlessness of metal. It's like comparing gold to dollars.

So then you have to ask yourself, why haven't keys gone down after the hype?

Well, there are several reasons for that. I'll list them now:

1. There are no fresh keys going into the market due to the steam market. The only way to create a new key is to buy one from the Mann Co. Store. Why would you buy a key from the store when you can buy one for 20 cents cheaper from a player?

2. Once again, the steam market. People are continually eager to convert their metal into keys so that they can sell them on the steam market. Therefore, there is another factor making keys more desirable.

3. There will always be a demand for keys. There are needed to get unusuals, they are used to unbox, and they are used as a common currency.

4. If people are successfully selling for 3.33 for example, then no one is going to sell lower. If someone sells lower, then he is bought out immediately and the keys are sold for higher. The only way an item will go down in price is if demand goes down for that item, forcing the sellers to price their keys lower. That will never happen, due to the immense demand for keys.

And this has been me on the key "inflation." I hope you have come out of this more educated than you were before.

I'm going to go ahead and post this in the steam group since it is too hard to find since everyone feels the need to post unhelpful things on key suggestions.

COMMENT:

ABOVE IS FALSE. I have been following the amount of keys at stats.tf since december. In december it went down to 381 000 keys from 400 000. Last week it was at 391 000 keys(which I wrote on another previous keysuggestion that made this same arguement).

NOW THIS DAY, keys are above 400 000 again. Which means it has gone back up to the amount that were in december.

http://stats.tf/item/5021/Mann_Co._Supply_Crate_Key

Perhaps I worded that incorrectly. I meant that very little keys are going into the market. The only time people buy keys from the store is when they want to go premium.

The amount of keys going into the market is not enough to satiate the demand. It is not nearly as many as it was.

Ah, I see you have posted this same thing on my post in the steam group. How polite of you. I responded to you in the discussions there, if you wish to see my reply.

In fact, have a link: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/0/864958088288365480/

I posted in the group, cause you said you written there instead. I did however not see you made a thread about it until after i posted here. So thats why it is a doublepost, sorry about the confusion.

Keys will still go up. People will still buy them, mainly because the entrance of newer players due to updates... I'd like to ask you about the history of keys, has the quantity always been around 390,000?

A lot of this is right. There is one thing I disagree with though. Everyone loves mentioning the steam market as an excuse. I am pretty sure the market opened in the 2nd week of December. Not November. Keys continued to rise after Halloween. Meaning keys continued to rise DESPITE the steam market. Steam market is another scapegoat, just like idle accounts are.

I personally think keys kept rising for reasons 3 and 4 that you gave. I would also add seller greed as another point, and also I would make a point on how metal is pretty much useless right now therefore sellers can ask for more.

Moreover, I still think this site IS an enabling factor. Is it the root of the problem? No. But it sure isn't helping either.

I respect your opinion, but I do not necessarily agree. Click the link I provided above, I posted this same thing but with changes.

Also, thank you for being civil. Some here are quite rude.

dude, the selling 1 scrap above is a TREND not an everlasting stand point, (and btw keys USED to be sold for 1 ref!!!) (sorry if I can off yelling with le caps I is tired :3)

flame......

According to tf2 fiance the average for the whole week is 3.46 - 3.49

Jesus so many votes on this...

I'm pretty sure some people know what Speculative Economic Bubbles are. Or Economic Bubbles in general. This is a little market bubble that is going to burst at some point. The rise will continue and it will probably reach 4 ref at which point keys will probably take a dive , either back to 2.33-2.66 or at least keep themselves at 3 ref. Except a market crash , either 2-3 months from now or at least sooner.

why will it crash? Everyone has tons of metal!

it will crash because, as you oh so blatantly ignore, EVERYONE HAS A LIMIT ON HOW MUCH THEY WANT TO PAY FOR A KEY, Are you that focused on profits that maybe, just maybe, there is a limit to how much people want to pay for items?

Explain to me why keys are the price they are.

unless if they decide that they like having their BP full of metal, they will pay any amount we set prices to

Sorry, but that's a very ignorant comment. First off, there is a limit. Many have already reached that limit and some key buyers/sellers refuse to support the current price. My fiancé is one of them; he stopped at 2.88 and now buys from the Mann Co store. Secondly, markets crash all the time, it is an inevitably. Believing that the key market will never fall is ludicrous. Every market crashes eventually. You can delay the inevitable for awhile, but you can't stop it. The market will crash once people have reach their limits, and considering most key are being sold to resellers, I think I can safely say that a good portion of normal consumers have reached that limit at 3.33, if not less. Finally, thought not important to the discussion, your statement is somewhat appalling. Say that to a potential buyer and you'd lose a sale fast.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7972799

Don't care if I get buyers or not, I'm still confused on why some traders payed 4 ref

if all the idlers stopped idling, then it will crash.

Either way, it doesn't bother me, I'll just sell keys for less, no biggie

If all the idlers stopped idling, then it will crash?... What? How does that even BEGIN to make sense?

I mean the guys that use 20 accounts just to idle. They're loaded with metal each week

btw, I am grateful that you buy from the store. I wish more traders would do that. Keys are my favorite tf2 item next to weapons.

WRONG SIR, WRONG. People said 3 ref was their "limit" they said 3.33 was their "limit" said 3.44 was their "limit"0_0 Its not gonna stop, people ref farm with hundreds of accounts, why worry about a few scrap? They throw away ref like we throw away toilet paper...Like a peice of paper...Covered in sh*t

the keys are up to 3.44 at least, sharks are selling them at 3.66 up to 4 refs, it's crazy what's happening with the right now.

People, WHY ARE WE MARKING KEYS UP?

We need to clam the fuck down and put them back to 2.66-3.00 this is getting ridiculous!

Shall we all turn to clams or something?

I really need to proof-read comments.

Why are people setting the price higher and higher? I liked it when keys were 2.66, hell 3.00 was fine because it was a nice even number but people are getting out of hand with the key price.

Please, just don't touch the price and everything will be ok. If people sell these keys for a higher price, let them do it and let them get blamed for doing it.

Let me guess , when this suggestion gets closed/accepted , it will have like -600 votes because of people who want the 'old days'?

2 words : no words...

Any day now the market is going to crash, items are devalued heavily at current metal prices. I think pricing web sites like this plays a role in raising the prices. If it wasn't for this site accepting 3.33 refined prices, no one would actually pay it. People would just wait a bit until people were starving for metal. Keys are easy to obtain, just enter a credit card. Metal takes time and/or a lot of accounts farming it. The price needs to settle at 3 refined.

The only problem with what you said (or didn't mention) is that metal has no real value right now. In all honesty, I dont know why people trade keys for metal at all. Valve hasn't given us anything to use metal on that is worth while. Valve needs to make another cool special hat like the voodoo juju that requires a lot of metal (2010) or something. Metal just sits in bp's, keys eventually get used on crates.

My big chunky, jiggly, saggy, soggy, jacked-up, hard, suckalient, progeria-ed, herpe-ed, with a smell of athlete's foot, lickable, thick, and big ballsacks and penis with chunk goo, they are going to all fall off. Thank you so much for this suggestion.

ok why is the price keep going up lets just leave it at 3 ref no more no less

I suggest all downvote the shit out of this guy, as to teach a lesson to anyone who dares to inflate the key price again. We really need to fight this key inflation bullshit.

SELLER; SELLING KEYS FOR 3 REF PER KEY

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8214373

ITS A TIP TO PLAYERS, SEE IF YOU CAN BUY FROM HIM. HE IS SELLING 10 KEYS.

Sorry for caps, but I want keybuyers looking for one or two keys to see this. There are sellers below 3 ref still, even on outpost.

these prices keep rising but the cost of the item monetarily satsys the same, There has to be a time where the price will go down or no one will want to buy because they can't afford it.

This is the beginning of the end.

wow........so many comments.....

Thankfully most are trying to bring down the price.

Anyway, i gotta say to everyone:

To the faithful traders of tf2:

You guys want to keep this pricelist updated often and we see that. these people are only doing their job albeit trying to make profit. However, they are just reflecting the price that is often sold and bought for. They are being honest and keeping the integrity of this site clean. Otherwise, we would become price manipulators like Spreadshit.

To the people wanting prices down:

GET HELP . seek out people who are willing to get the price down and form a group. Get the word out. Stop buying keys and teach people how to not buy keys. However, making stupid comments like "you are ruining the conomy" and "stop suggesting new prices" is not gonna do anything at all. Gotta take action.

Really glad i quit trading before this shitstorm happened. THe future:

keys: ridiculous price=no one buying=eventual decrease in value

Buds: will rise due to keys rising=no one being able to afford=them falling again

GEnuines: well..Kinda screwed when they release the craftable and biyuable versions.

Vintage hats: Bills worth=no one buying=decrease in value

OR everyone can get so greedy, tf2 ecomony is no longer a rags-to-riches game. ITs for the 1% only who can afford to use money. Then at that poiint they will realize its just a game and try to cash out. Then other players will buy it then realize that there really is no point to this virtual items then they will cash out. THen all the poor will comeback and the rich will rejoin once again to feel rich.

Tf2 20- - but soon.....

I'm not sure why everyone is so enamored with the "rags-to-riches" idea of trading. It's a boring, needlessly tedious way to start the game. Higher investment capital creates bigger returns.

The "1%" who can afford to use money apparently make up a huge chunk of the game, given how many keys are in circulation (only obtainable with IRL money)

I'm American and I still laugh every time I see someone mention the "start from scratch" "work their way up" "class warfare" hodgepodge of arguments

But trading up is easy

I dont see why a lot of people put a good amount of dosh into a game.

i wouldn't put money into a game, just buy a new game. Never use more money then the game cost.

But i do buy 2 event keys every event just to uncrate.

i think most keys in circulation are from f2p going premium and russians

"Boring, needlessly tedious" was referring to time vs. returns and low initial profit, not difficulty.

Making profit is easy at any level, it just requires patience. But when you have less money the returns are lower

Yea. That's true

I've only invested $10 in the game :P

My issue with AlphaOmega was that he was implying that anyone who spends more than .50 USD of irl funds on tf2 didn't "earn" their success.

Uh. i have used money too......When i say the 1% i mean the really high end traders. people who can throw away buds because they are so rich. I have used money becasue im premium so your statement is slightly invalid.

And if you use money to buy buds u didnt earn that through hard work in trading, you just bought it....

One earned the money used to buy the buds, so what difference does it make?

My issue with your statements was the implication that "earning" your backpack is the only way to do things, and that if you didn't "earn" it you are somehow damaging the economy (or whatever else you were getting at).

Trading up from a ref to a bills or whatever is a valid way to play the game, but spending your IRL money on items is too. Neither is more important or real than the other.

If you want to discuss this further add me or go to the forums. I shouldn't have bothered responding: I knew it was gonna go off-topic and I was right

if no one used cash in TF2, the game would end.

It costs money to keep this running.

It also costs money for keys originally and some other genuine items.

Someone has to put money into the game

Being rich in TF2 is the ultimate game.

The goal in games where you levelup is to try to get the highest level.

At some point you get tired of the playing the game and you cash out and leave a winner or a loser.

You also have to be careful on how rich you are in TF2, if there's any announcement for shutting TF2 down, huge huge crash in the market!

My friend own a group who aren't buy keys and people are welcome to join to bring down the keys price.

I sense a revolution coming ~~ Anyways, keys are always gonna be going up. Until they reached the point where they're exactly valued at the same $2.49 in ref that is.

As i said , the market will crash because it has been studied ,even my psychologists that man's drive for money , and in this case profit was integrally formed long before , thousands of years ago. It is in our nature to want more and the market , believe it or not is manifested through emotion. When things go good ,everyone is happy, things start rising in price , trades go wel, the market flourishes.

But , there is a certain point , as many people have stated , a limit that will be reached , not because people will ask why keys are growing or why keys are not dropping , but because , someday someone , or all together will feel that this is not good and that they must stop selling/buying at a given fixed price.

Let me give you a example of a economic dive that happened in the Netherlands like 300-350 years ago. It was called the Tulip Mania. Traders would would buy tulips at immense prices because it was imported from Turkey and the Netherlanders , or Holland , saw it as a luxury item , only fit for nobles and wealthy people. So traders saw they could make ..... PROFIT.

And so they did . Tulips started raising in a couple of months to incredible prices, soaring sky high , like anything you'd ever see in a normal economy.

And it kept rising till at one point the most expensive tulip sold for a 50 acre property with a vila. And now that you heard this ,feel free to look up "Tulip Mania". This is just an example ,and if you think the TF2 economy does not work in the same way a normal economy does then you're just ignorant.

I was reading this then i realized it was my good friend Heisen! Hey buddy =)

You have a great point.

Dont worry, the economy will eat and gorge itself and when it has finally swallowed its face, everything will come out the ass.

Downvoted, just like all the others, but it will still get accepted, just like all the others, because people here love destroying the main currency of the market.

I don't like using this card, but http://tf2finance.com/keys/ medium price 3.45 so that'd mean that price range should be 3.33-3.55. Current price is fine.

have been finance above 3,55 since you suggested or before? i dont think so. current range is good and 1 rec range is pretty big so DOWNVOTE

Id love to see them lower the price of keys just for a few days; see what happens and what effect that would have on the market.

As for tf2finance, idk how anyone justifies anything using that, all i see is a couple graphs. Last I checked, actual statistics had numbers u could look at to calculate yourself. tf2finance: "Theses data were c llected through constant monitoring of a subset of 5000 users" WHo are they, how are they monitoring them ,what formulas are they using, where is the actual numbers?

As for bp.tf, is a noble idea but truth is its filled with "research bias" and the overly democratizing the process has lead to volatile prices on obscure items that would otherwise be more fixed .Not just keys mind you, Ive seen dueling mini gun prices change like twice in 3 days, recently tour of duty prices inexplicably fell by 2 scrap then rose again and so forth. Functionally alot of item prices are alot more fixed than the latest changes would have you believe.

Alot of times without actually looking at item histories you can not be sure what someone got. Say what you want about bp.tf but I guarantee I can figure out the true price of an item better than some rating whore. THats the problem, inexperienced traders looking to boost the appearance of their bp.tf profile. Proof my behind, I want item histories and not from some professional highballer.

Good point there.

Some traders make on selling item for x price, and you a whole lot of hidden posts where noone offers what they want publicly. Publicly is the key word.

They might sell the same item multiple times and in private. How are these tracked?

i never know which way these key suggestions go, so staying neutral.

Ofcourse, dont want to risk any stars voting how you feel or what the market shows. Only vote when its clear in the comments that the vote is gonna pass or fail.

Btw they normally pass when they're suggested upward. The horders arent gonna vote against themselves and well anyone can find a tfop to support a higher price being sold.

One day only admins will be allowed to suggest key and ref prices. Hopefully they are thorough and dont skim the surface or cherrypick.

"One day only admins are allowed to suggest key and ref prices."

This... is what I was thinking one day to come. I hope it was true that this key sharking thing gets over.

Really on tf2outpost can't find any key lower than 3.55 or 3.66

Wow, this is now the most voted for suggestion ever in this site!

significant key price suggestion+dedicated tf2 fans= a big fight XD

Before you know it keys will be 4 refined metal sadly. Many traders will have to dump their entire backpack for 1 key... :(

Why do they? They don't NEED a key.

It would happen if people continue to putting the price higher.

You see, people like you with all of these horrible comments like this is why key suggestions are so bad. If people actually used logic, proof, and some intelligence when they commented, it wouldn't be so bad.

Well it is bad for the people who aren't rich enough to buys at this ridiculous price. However, rich people like you can pay ANY price for the keys which will increase keys to like 4 refined metal. If this continue a Bill HAT will equal 1 KEY.

if the key price increases it makes everyone richer, and buying keys at increased prices=selling/having them at the increased price. so you dont lose anything for this

But still everyone need a key for a unusual and unusual traders will have hard time to sell there unusual when keys are going to bring it down to balance the price. The key price are killing the economy.

how is it? if an unusual is 20 keys and the keys rise, the unusual lowers its price in keys but stays the same in USD

But still the value will be lower and harder to sell when people buy it a decent price and then realize it is lowering.

This is opinionated, biased rubbish. Keys are the same price they were before this started. What's changed is their value in refined.

There is absolutely no evidence that it is 'killing the economy'.

Unusuals will not change in price because keys are not worth more. Ref is just worth less. Not many people buy unusuals in ref, anyway.

Rich people like me? I started with 0 just like everybody else. It's not my fault that I am actually successful with trading.

If you want to complain to somebody, complain to the people that are farming metal and ruining it's value. Complain to the people that are actually screwing things up. Learn the actual economics behind the key before you start blabbing about things you don't understand.

No, I don't mean that but like you can pay any price for the key.

Fuck this you guys really want keys to be in a ridiculous price since you are re buying at a low price and selling it higher for a few scrap of profit to fu*k the key price which will make keys to 4 refined metal.

I feel the 1000th voter should get a prize.

This.

Liked

Look at the previous suggestions.

*3.22-3.44 ref*

Score: -47

"ACCEPTED 18 DAYS AGO"

Yeah, I give up on this site. Cheers.

The admins made the decision. not the voter which proves the admins make the decision, we just try to convince them.

I'm guessing they got tired of the key price suggestions every day, so they decided just to leave it up.

Everyone may downvote the price suggestion but if the person provides good and solid proof showing why the price should be that then the admins will accept it. They take into account the voting and opinion of the users but just because everyone wants a HOUWAR to be one scrap doesn't mean that the admins will accept the suggestion

The higher the price of keys, the more people will sell them on Outpost at highball prices. The more highballers, the more people see it as a normal price and try to up it. It's a vicious cycle that will end horribly.

1 Key = 3.53 Refined The price jumped on http://tf2finance.com/keys/. This price suggestion is in perfect range at this time.

Went to test the upper part of this range. Sold all 6 of the keys I had for 3.66 in less than a minute. Had to turn someone down because I ran out of keys to sell.

I think that raising the prices is ridiculous. I am not going to sell keys at 3.66 or even 3.55. I sell keys at 3.44 when I can get them. If anything the prices of keys raising due to greed.

let be friends, I want to buy keys from you in the future :)

The keys should go down the their normal value 2.33. Just imo..

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - 3.54 currently

maybye go 5 ref each for key?

Don't do it. It's been done before, and bans were thrown around.

^ 300th comment

5 ref is too soon. 4 ref barely sells

I don't understand how they can ban someone for selling for what they want. As long as you aren't lying or making misleading statements to get buyers, people should be able to sell for 6 ref per key if people will buy them.

No, not for selling for that much, for suggesting that that be the new price for keys :3

So when is Valve going to put up a manditory credit check before you can launch TF2

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8087505[/url].

I have been buying and selling keys for 3.55 with ease. There is no reason to make it 3.66. Downvote.

3.55 is in his range, so I don't know what point you are trying to make. Do you have any proof that they don't sell for 3.66? Also since your trade says you are trying to stabilize the key market, I'm not surprised you downvoted. But you downvoted without any justification other than you don't want keys to go up.

My point is that so many people buy and sell at 3.55, that extending the range to fit a very small minority is not accurate at all.

Very small minority? Loads of people on Outpost are selling for 3.66, and are succeeding. I see very few selling for 3.55, and the reason you buy at 3.55 with ease is because everyone else is offering much lower as they usually do.

"Went to test the upper part of this range. Sold all 6 of the keys I had for 3.66 in less than a minute. Had to turn someone down because I ran out of keys to sell."

Posted Seven posts above your original post. Like it or not, people will readily buy Keys for 3.66

I just read every comment and all I can say is that Key will most likely rise for those who don't use real cash and rely on the Tf2 economy itself. Now for all of you angry about the rising price use real money and get the at $2.49 each compared to 3.55ish. For the people rising it, I don't care if I have to I'll save up an extra ref to buy the key because it's my only option or I'll make an offer regarding hats. All economies take a similar path and inflation was bound to happen.

Wrong not 2.49$ too much also , buy it cheaper for 1.3$ PayPal

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8011572

Just further proving my point if you don't like the Tf2 economy don't use it.

I have to agree but ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

broke the 1000 vote

We need to raise this suggestion to over 400 comments!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEgh8TUlpQc

Easy Solution:

Make It Back to 2.55

Then Make It so we can't vote on price.

Problem=Solved

Just like magic!

Remember these days when key is 2.55 - 2.66 is so peaceful but after Halloween is not the same anymore...

3.44 is Expensive if the keys go up more its goona be difficult to buy keys in Metal and People will stop playing this because little kids are missing up the game and keys should go back to its old price because lots of people will complain that little kids are missing up the game and i don't like it because its goona be hard to buy keys in metal and it will be harder to get Earbuds, Unusuals and Max's Served head if you don't want it to be difficult to get things you want vote No on this Voting Suggestion because your making the wrong choice and lots of people will stop playing this game team fortress because of these little kids voting to make the keys go up and missing the game up D:

Theres My PROOF

No if keys go up all other items need to go up in price! Keys went from 2.33 to now 3.55 and when the keys were 2.33 buds were 26. Now buds are 27 and keys are 3.55 if you all know about how economics works this is not good for the keys to keep going up while all other items remain the same price. Soon the market will crash.

Items commonly traded for refined will decrease in value compared to keys, and items commonly traded for keys will remain the same price in keys.

if there is a set price on something then people are willing to pay that. If for example the holiday headcase was 10 buds people would still pay that

This suggestion has been up so long, by now, 3.33 is way too low. By the time this suggestion is accepted or closed, the price of keys will have gone up even more.

330+ comments and 1135+ votes! This has to be a record for this entire site.

because the price is 3.55, people want to sell at 1 scrap more. if you raise it to 3.66, they will try to sell at 3.77 and the WILL eventually crash. the only way to prevent this is to stop using backpack.tf or just stop suggesting key prices

This is crazy. I mean, according to the outpost, people are going all like "KEYS FOR FOR REF. add me for a quick trade." Wtf?

i think we cant trust backpack.tf on key prices anymore.

we can only trust tf2finance.com

even there, i take their information with a grain of salt.

you cant price items with keys and ref !you need 1 pricing tool !! that is what is creating this chaos backpack.tf is using 3 items as currencies and that`s bullshit! is going to make poor poorer and the rich richest!

you cant pump keys and buds at the same time!! that's unethical

when keys where 2.66 buds wher 23 keys max was 2 buds!!

for me as a guy that can spend keys its very easy to buy a max ! 2 buds then 2 buds now

same with buds and i can spare the extra ref if i am to buy keys! really dont care!

but in reallity my profit is huge! as if i sell the max for buds then for keys and finally for metall i will profit 54 ref lol!! backpack.tf pricing system have made me rich in 4 months if only i hade more to spend when backpack.tf was started before the launch all those rumors about spreedsheet!!

well tf2 finance is the way guys!it was fun backpack.tf but you are a useless piece of sheet right now!

Why don't you make a 46key suggestion for max heads if they are easy to buy at that price? Also your 54ref profit disappears if it is no longer possible to buy keys at 2.66ref or your max head cannot be resold for 2buds.

I was out of the trading game for a while (since october, until now), so could someone explain how keys went up so high to me? Wasn't it 2,55 ref?

The initial bump was 2.55-2.66 to 2.66-3.00. This was during the Halloween event, where Valve had released new Halloween unusual effects. Natually, people wanted to get the new unusuals, so people just wanted keys and would pay higher prices for them. ~~After that... well I have no idea.~~

I actually forgot about the Steam Market. Few new keys are being introduced to the market when you can just buy keys safely from another player at $2 as opposed to $2.50 at the Mann Co. Store. I think this can explain it more thoroughly than I can. http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/0/864958088288365480/

Steam market is an excuse, not a reason. if that were true, the number would not be over 400000, which it is now. Steam market only slowed down keys, it did not stop it entirely.. It's like a kid who breaks a cookie jar trying to get a cookie, and then blaming it on someone else but himself.

The real reason why key prices have gone up is mostly due to the greed of the players. Where there would be a dip in key prices, there was instead a bogus push to raise the price via economic reasons that do not apply to the game. Pretty much what it boils down to is that everyone that supports a price rise in keys has at least 30 keys in their backpack, and raising the price benefits them, even if it is for that one measly scrap.

Right now, the current problem right now is that there are rotten eggs on this site that are using this site to brag about how much their backpack is worth, similar to how 20 something brags about the $100,000 sports car that he does not want to drive because he doesn't want to get the car scratched. The admins deny it right now, but this website is a direct contributor to the price going up, because the sellers always go 1 scrap even above this website, ALWAYS. Pretty much this website acts as a catalog of the behavior of the key traders, and also act as a self fulfilling prophecy.It is at a point that if i buy keys (at least there i don't have to deal with their rotten temperament), I don't sell them now, not even for my own gain.

Also, they are trying to make something that has been around the game since the start of the game a LIMITED EDITION PROMO, when all it is is at best a liquid asset that could go up and down. Right now, the prices are going up to a ridiculous level because some boneheads think that even someone sneezing is a valid reason to raise the prices.

As long as the admins deny that this website is a direct contributor of the price hike, this problem will only get worse. The more you lie about something, the more it is confirmed as a truth.

this guy is talking the truth read my comment down on this page!!

example a bought a fedora at christmas for 4 ref that was 1.5 key at the time isold it for 27 refs 4 days ago because of the hike of discontiniued hats and the big rise in keys a get a shitload of ref for a stupid vintage fancy fedora! lolz!!so much victims so much stupid ppl i am the only one that knows that vintages have been discontiniued 2 years ago?or i am the only 1 that knows that you can give a key for 1.65 at steam market and buy a gift wrap for 1.47 and sell that for a key +1 rec .i think the majority of traders are at least victims waiting to be riped off by ppl with knowledge's about mannconomy so i guess you cant help them!

but rissing the price of keys is doings of ppl with similair or higher bp value than me!

closing

if ppl think that idling their accounts for 8.7 weeks is equal to 1 key then what can i say they are born victims!

cheers

It's refreshing to read the thoughts of intelligent people once in a while.

Yeah, he's obviously the smartest one here.

skapas, I really wish you would keep your general bias to yourself.

Honestly, you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about. You're just bringing up random trading shit to try and make yourself sound slightly intelligent. Do you see how many downvotes your previous comments have? How about stop making stupid rumors, and maybe we won't downvote them.

it was i remember i actualy traded back then no one of these idiots are and are smiling all over there faces saying profits profits profits

I like to know how many people here that use backpack.tf often who didn't vote.

We probably reached max voting.

I just neutral on key suggestions now, because finance tends to spike a lot.

1000 votes?

yea,i should do some key suggestion,LOL

I guess half of them are at least downvotes. ;)

Well the point is if sellers keep raising the price it will go up and this will keep carrying on cuz b4 i used to remember that keys was under 3.00

keys were 2 ref once uppon atime before the halloween it was bellow 3 couple of months before it was 2.66 this is ridicules im starting to flame over this website this SITE is the only reason the key price could raise so high and so fast because no one checks it not even the admins they have 20 bilion keys why would they not accept a vote making there backpack worth more this is just grown out of hand

If metal is so worthless nowadays, then why are key sellers selling their keys for metal?

CHECKMATE. Your move, Obama.

WTF does Obama have to do with this virtual economy?

Gaben ate obama - gaben controls tf2 - obama controls tf2...Logic

It all makes sense now! Thanks for clearing that up for me.

I sell them for metal because the items I buy cost less than a key and require metal to purchase.

Yeah, what did I do?

Obama: Key sellers sell their keys for metal, then buy their keys back for a cheaper price. Why do they sell keys for metal, for profit. In time, they get enough profit to get another key! Also, every now we also need change. Sometimes a buyer will spend more then 8 keys but not 9, so we need metal in these cases.

well guys according to backpack.tf prices if the majority of your items are priced in keys you are happy if keys rise as i am right now! if the majority of you items is valued in ref you must feel realy shit!i sympathize you and downvoting this !! but the backpack.tf system of pricing is the only to blame actually! if all the prices where according to ref nothing of this would have happened so if you choose to follow backpack.tf in pricing you have to get over the overprise of the keys as its the sites policy and the admins best interest to raise the key prices.what can i say !the only solution for that is everything to be priced as ref or as keys and not both ways! that will only result in a big cap between those that have shitload of items and those that are trying to buy a descent item !!

1 ref rise for keys since 2.66 its not that big of a deal for me!! it is in my best interest if keys goes up to 5 ref it is in my best interest!take a look at my bp i have sold anything that has to do with ref for the exact same reason so if keys are to rise be it!my profit will be huge!

yes the average user will have to idle 6 weeks more just to acquire that 1 ref but why should i care!!i am only looking to profit as much as i can as a healthy trader!!

backpack.tf is your problem guys! not the traders that ask for more !if you provide that more then you have made your part already! rise those keys now so we can get some houwars bloody hell!!

well if market crash you know who to blame eventually!

haha and you didnt like the spreedsheet!

lolz

Don't know about you guys but that was painful to read...

Question 1: Do you know what punctuation even means?

Question 2: You've had about five separate rants on this page about how backpack.tf users are manipulating the market. Either grow up, and learn to respect evidence when it is give to you, or propose a solution to the problem. Can you do that?

Also press F3 and type "skapas|GR|". Nearly all of his comments have been flagged to the point of hiding xD

Bockpqck.tf mak mund controll hellmats to mak peple buy key hgher iz nt ref furm :P

Well said skapas. 100% correct. And your strategy to sell all metal related items is sound. Good for you, and good luck in your trades!

Whatever he said (don't know, can't read), he definitely didn't say it well.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/0/846940247663550193#c846940247677708724

Written by: xen Dec 20, 2012 @ 3:14am

I think there's something else to it as well:

The real question you have to ask is "Why are people selling keys for refined metal?"

I believe for a very long time in the tf2 economy, new players were joining the game, discovering items, and wanting to collect them. The easiest way to get the items, of course, would be from the Mann Co Store, and many players I'm sure chose this option.

Some items are not available from the Mann Co Store, and sooner or later these players found out they can get these items, plus more, a lot cheaper as well, trading with other players. What did other players want for their items more than anything else? Refined metal, of course.

Since you cannot just buy refined metal from the Mann Co Store, you buy the key in order to get the refined metal to trade for the items, because you find out other players are willing to trade you refined metal for your key. (This is exactly what I did around July of this year, before getting into trading at all.)

What I think is happening is, there are fewer new players, or more players who don't care for items at all. There is this group 'missing' from the game, who are not buying keys to trade for refined metal in order to get items they want to keep.

Instead, you have the group of traders, who do not care much for the items at all, and are just looking to 'trade'. They buy an item in order to sell the item later, hopefully for a bit of profit, but they definitely do not buy the items because they want to keep or collect the items.

The majority of traders who are selling keys on trade servers and Outpost do not want refined metal in order to buy items at all. They want refined metal in order to buy the next key, at a better price, hopefully to make a profit.

The group of players who were buying keys in order to collect items is shrinking, and therefore the group of players who are buying keys only to trade has grown. The former was keeping the price of keys somewhat stable with a constant influx, and the latter is causing the price of keys to increase. There was a balance between the two that has been shifted, and without new players I don't think it will be set back.

While it does contain the words 'keys', 'refined', and 'rise', it is a fundamentally different argument to the one presented by Skapas. It's more intelligent and comes to a different conclusion.

Why did you post that?

Those who buy keys will be willing to sell for metal if there was something cool to craft where they could get a lot of profit if they managed to craft it.

When is an admin going to accept/decline this? :L

says the person with 30 keys in their backpack.

Huh? I don't get what your point is... Also it's 43 keys.

"accept/decline" = pointless acusation...Genuis

The reason its taking so long is the simple fact is that keys are a major part of TF2 currency and and suggestions to change them need a lot of input before it can be changed.

:O i tought the most imprortant TF2 currency were potatoes

People bitching about why it took so long got an answer. Your input is not needed.

THEY WHERE (so dumb) they WERE potatoes, gaben...Well he got hungrey...and...Well... Thats why we have keys now.

I'm trying to buy and sell keys for 3 days. It's really hard to find anything 3.55, also i've seen people are selling for 3.66 and ever for 3.77.

Have you actually successfully sold for 3.66? I've talked to a dozen or so people who have tried with 0 luck. In fact, keys don't even quicksell at 3.55. It usually takes me 3-4 hours to sell a dozen or so keys at 3.55.

I didn't sold to 3.66, but sold to 3.55. 3.44 is new quicksell and i haven't seen any 3.33's for 3 days.

If you can't prove anyone has sold for 3.66, then how can any suggestion which includes 3.66 be accurate?

Well, i'll sell one and prove it to you.

...6 hours later XD

11 hours later xD

"I'll just sell keys for 3.66. They sold too quickly for 3.55" an actualy comment from a trader.

Right now 22:00 GMT + 1 , TF2Finance says 3.49 , which is exactly +/- 3.33-3.66 range (3.495)

Why don't people get it, average of 3.33 and 3.66 is 3.50. This is because the 3 and 6 in 3.33 and 3.66 repeat infinitely. I don't know why this annoys me, but it does.

Shouldn't we really be saying 3.67 :3

I'm sorry, but I fail to see why keys are rising in price? They're in an unlimited abundance? Unless everyone in the world has gotten a little poorer, and can't afford £1.99 any more? Please stop causing this to rise needlessly. Greedy wankers.

Stop causing this to raise?

Tell that to the buyers , here that comment is useless.

you guys realize that if we let this pass the mannconomy is going to be shot to hell

Yeah , better lets manipulate the price to 2.33 back so we are all happy and we can eat all our lollichops....

Actually, woodsy is partially correct. I've predicted this quite awhile ago; once the price hits 3.66, the market will start to stagnate as the common buyer starts to reach their limit. Plenty have already, and increasing it will cause more to do so as well. I've reached my limit at 2.88, most have reached it at 3.33. Any higher will just cause the market to, well, crash as the demand goes down but the supply goes up. And as prices start to go down, people won't budge to buy them until they can get it for really low. (Some believe 1.33, others 1.88. I myself believes 2.33) It's just how economies work. Sadly, woodsy must also realize that markets always crash. Even if backpack.tf rejects this proposal, it would only delay the inevitable.

The only "foreseeable" way to "Crash" the value of keys is to create a new tier of metal recipe (that only Valve sells in stores, i.e. a "Metal Processing Plate", that is consumable) and transforms say 3 ref into a "Platinum" bar, which can be used to craft exclusively platinum items. In other words, unless Valve introduces a controlled method of raising metal prices, metal will keep its free fall because it's free, in abundance, and there's no real value behind it.

Even if players "max out" at say 4ref/key, and demand no longer supports the price, the "crash" would be a slow and agonizing trip, and will likely never fall back down to 2.66 range because 1: Valve will make sure keys are always useful, for store profit, 2: Consumers have become used to new prices (inflated) that any drop in price will result in an influx of pent-up demand.

Just look at gas prices today, a drop of a few cents below average would cause a LINEUP for gas... how much did they save? None. Economics is dictated by the mob.

Wow this still didn't get accepted or rejected, what are they waiting for?

400th comment.

Why hasn't this been approved/disproved yet?

and this ^ got flagged...Wtf !?!??!?!

Someone else probably wanted to be the 400th comment most likely :P

I rather spend real money then give that much metal. I'm buying from man co store/market only now.

I've had 4 or 5 people in the past week add me then buy keys from the mann co store and ask me to wait for them to become tradable.

It seems you're not alone in not being able to afford keys with metal.

There's this one admin in this one server that sells keys at 3 ref each... I only get my keys from him because he doesn't care about making profit off of these keys. I'm not gonna say who it is because, knowing the highballers on tf2outpost, they're gonna buy all the keys at 3 ref and sell them at 3.66. Imho i think they should stay at 3.33 - 3.44. no higher, no lower.

people said that about 2.66, 3 ref, 3.22, 3.33, 3.44 soon you'll say "keys should stay at 4-4.33 no higher, no lower :P

That's the worst of it. Prices are just going to keep going up Y__Y

I called it btw, last suggestion I put "see you in a week for 3.66 keys" - 1 week after this is accepted 3.77 - 3.88 - 4 ref -4.33 T_T tf2 key buyers Y u no stahp buying keys (/0_0/)

a few days ago I was able to sell to this guy, http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8185146 someone actually buying for 3.66, but if you post a trade buying for 3.55 then you will get keys quickly too.

Why do the admins just allow this collective raising of prices to keep happening?

I think you should think a bit before doing this mistake keys are rising too FAST it will be really hard to get any of them and you have a lot of them and trying to increase the vault of your bp

You serious?

The most stable currency right now is bills.

Buyers are buying for 8 keys (tho some wants to buy at 7 keys and flip for 8)

Sellers are selling for 8 keys

Someone will always want this hat

Especially the F2P's.

I should know because when i started to play tf2 (last year feb) all i wanted was a bills hat. I paid 8 keys for unpainted 9 for pink, lime and ts and 10 for black and white, and it is very easy to sell.

Bills is the first expensive item that F2P's want.

Highballers gonna highball.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/3539291

Bought over 200 keys for 3.44 in last two weeks. Sometimes bulk sellers asking for 3.33, even when my price stated at 3.44.

GTFO.

First suggestion to beat 1000 votes. Here's an award.

If anyone wants to know what came second that reached 900+ votes, it's this one http://backpack.tf/vote/id/50db8534ba25360d2a000006#50dd52aeba25360b5200005c_row

Also first suggestion to beat 300 comments. Here's another award.

Second at 200+ comments: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/50e7094dba2536ac6d000000#50e8dbf9ba2536e80f000001_row

Back on keys, USA and Europe seem to have conflicting ideas on the prices of keys. Which is why tf2finance is fluctuating. That's what I think anyway.

Oh yeah, if you think down voting to hell is gonna stop it, it's not. If it's right, it's right. If it's wrong it's wrong. That's why I'm abstaining here. E.g. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/50cbc90aba2536e27c000017

Lol that dislike. I'm not sure how what I said ain't likable :3

upvote, i was selling keys for 3.55 and 4 people added me to buy within seconds

now you tell me, why upvote, if you just prove current range?