Suggestion: A Distinctive Lack of Hue at 2–3 keys

Price Suggestion

~2.9 keys

161 votes up

137 votes down

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This suggestion was closed Thu, 07 Feb 13 09:48:55 +0000 by Puddilicious.

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Comments

Since the low end has ample proof, I'll be posting mostly the high value proofs.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/4850048 - Sold a few at 3keys some recent

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8339834 - Sold one for 3keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8386361 - Guy at the bottom bought two at 3keys but not from me, I was too late.

Multiple modified trades of the same trade I created, I sold 4 for 3 pure and two for 3keys in items because I wanted them. All the buyers never posted but you can check the history and see who bought them. Although for two of em you can't because it was sold elsewhere users not on Outpost.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7990933

Here's one that is really old but has recent trades as well for 3keys. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/2990647

This one manage to go out of stock, has 1 can left in his bp though. Restocking I guess. His price is 3keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8007202

This guy is willing to pay 3.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8435105

So is the first guy to post here.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8439025

Since the low end was just approved 6 hours before this I'll take that as proof.

Along with this trade http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7711374

Also forgot to mention that I know the range is pretty wide but the range is valid since the lowest and highest are being sold recently.

I've been able to sell Black Paint for 12 Refined easy. Up,,

:D More proof!

Wait, 12 per 3, 4 or the unlikely per can.

12 Refined each dude, I think you misread.

Yeah for some reason I thought 12 keys.

Hey if you could post proof of your sales, inventory history or outpost trade would be nice.

Uhh..

2nd link is not selling for 3 keys it's 2 keys and 2 refined.

The one who went out of stock and only has 1 left is also doing 2 keys and 2 refined.

Please do not assume that 2 refined transitions over to a key. That's totally different lol.

But ya you are right, there are ppl willing to pay 3 keys for a hue.

Here's a link to a dude who may or may not have been willing lol:http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8439025

Sorry about that I got tired and forgot to really look instead of skimming xD.

The guy who posted below the trade is the guy willing to pay for it. Check the hidden post.

The second link was just a mistake on my part, I was sort of rushing to put this together since I have a busy day today. I think I was suppose to put this one http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7391861. He was selling for 3keys and if you look at the history it's gone. This one has the second guy paying 3 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8247932.

Anyways the one that wen out of stock I bookmarked awhile ago and I've been bookmarking trades with 3keys as a price to make this suggestion. So I guess he changed it.

And what are you talking about http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8439025 has guy saying added and the price is clearly 3.

I suppose the other links can be used to prove middle prices.

I searched my inventory history and I cannot find 3 of them!. But my trade clearly sold them. But I have two screenshots. Two trades for 1 at 3 keys and one trade for a 1:1 with a gold fedora. At the time I sold it for 3keys, but since the hype died it cost much less now. I sold the hat for something either 3 keys or 3 keys of items I wanted.

Forgot to post the link. http://postimage.org/gallery/5v9lnnu/

To add on to the validity of the 3 key price a player mentioned 23hrs ago that a lot of the traders are out of stock and whenever he had stock it sold for 2 keys+. This means that the higher price is in part by the scarce resource. Although personally I disagree with the amount of the paint available but proof is proof.

The player is at the bottom of the previous approved suggestion. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51116b72ba25363f5d000003

hell no that is high ;o

So you oppose because you think it is high. The myriad of proofs says that it is possible. They call it the high price and low price for a reason you know.

Just read the comments on the last one

Your point? If you hadn't notice my proofs are multiple completed sales.

Which is a VERY small percentage of the total amount of black paint sales. Not enough to raise the price.

This one has more than before. You don't find 10 threads, some having more than 1 sale at 3 keys enough?

Nope, I do not. You have to look at how long it took them to sale.

And 2 keys + 2 ref is not 3 keys. Stop lying.

What makes you think I said 2ref = 1 key? I didn't say that the other guy did. And those were the wrong links if you didn't read the reply to his comments. Keys are 3.5

Some trades are less than a week. Some trades have been on for months and sold multiple cans of different paints so it's a shop.

You can argue all you want.

You don't have enough evidence.

How much do you want? There's only so many trades on outpost.

Whatever I suppose we can just wait for this to be accepted or rejected.

posted this 4 hours ago, what i can say it isnt a hotseller at 3keys after 5 or so bumps.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8450932

So, closing the 3 keys after 10 hours of nothing and going to 2keys2ref, lets see

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8460333

Well we ran out of sub-commenting space. Do you really expect to attract a lot attention for any normal item? I've seen posts for decent and even good normal items yet did not get a post until the next day or 2. Even then most of the offers were laughable.

I think this is acceptable because most people who are buying are going to say something along the lines of "lets meet in the middle" which kind of brings the price to where you want it to be. And my friend just sold one for ten ref which is pretty much 3 keys so being that people are already selling them for that price I believe that your suggestion is acceptable.

Who is you friend? Can you post proof of his sale?

Also speaking of the middle price you're right a good amount is being sold at 2.5. More than 2keys and 3keys combined. Nonetheless one person has sold a lot recently for 2 and I have many proofs of 3.

Are you guys kidding with me?

If you sell black paint for 3 keys, then you are basically selling to very naive players.

Since the cost for buying paint in mann co store is around 2 keys(a little less then 2 keys).

Which means if this item goes up to 3 keys, players are overpaying for the item.

If this goes through I must say I am impressed of you traders who manage to find the players that have yet not done a search on Mann Co store.

(Buy from Mann Co Store if this goes through, its cheaper)

Naive players or not a sale is a sale. And in the market that is all that matters. In case you haven't noticed no one pays 2.5 USD for a key only in the man co store. In paypal trades we see a price of 1.3-1.5 USD. The maximum for this range is 4.5, 50 cents less than your theory. And where the heck do you think we keep getting this paint anyways if not the store? Too add on this was priced 3 keys before and sold for it.

Hmm interesting interesting. You say nobody pays for keys in Mann Co?

When this year started there were around 380 000 keys around.

Now there are 456 000.

Thats is 76 000 reasons why you are wrong in your statement nobody buys from the store.

And since guys have the ability to click "buy key" in the store, surely I can assume they can click to buy paint as well.

The trades where you sold one paint for 2 keys was a fair deal. Sure the black paint is a bit cheaper then the price of 2 keys in the store, but you paid 2 keys to get pain when you needed from the paintseller. Going up at 3 keys is a different story thow.

Your suggestion at 3 keys=2.5*3 USD= 7.5 USD

Meaning what I wrote just above is still valid, it will be cheaper buying from the store.

But go ahead and raise the price, but on this item paintsellers are playing a dangerous game. Will be interesting too see how it develops.

You can also buy a phlogistinator in the store for idk 7USD (? i have €)) or a strange shovel costs you a key when uncrating. The only reason when store prices should be inculded on pricing are discount sales.

Your argument sounds a lot like the recent argument on outpost between Champelliot and some one that I forgot.

You can buy that for 10 USD. Also in Euros we do have online conversion, the google search automatic conversions and the fact that Pounds Sterling, Euros and US Dollars are stated on the wiki and elsewhere.

I wasnt interested in the real price now (phlogistinator), just wanted to post an example

i got no sale in 10 hrs for 3 keys, i lowered to 2keys2ref and had a sale just now. (after 40 minutes)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8460333 - and my BP ->

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198026000101 - u can see 1 gone and pures incoming , thats sold for ~ 2.54keys

overall the 3 keys are too high range for me

Oh well I just wanted to clear up the price.

Also if three is to high for you that's fine you can set what price works for you. If anything you're giving me more proof as this fits almost in the middle of the price range.

That was true prior to the Steam Market. Not anymore. Now I can sell 3 keys directly into the market and get back roughly $6.50. Which you can buy a black paint at $4.99.

The cash value is only applicable in setting a max value, not a minimum value. In your case of the phlogistinator, the cash value means it should never cost more than 3.25 keys.

You know speaking of the fact steam market is getting more lucrative than paypal trades what happens to the 1.5 usd key?

Hmmm very interesting where did I say no one buys keys from man co?

Relativism states that there isn't finite definition of what is a fare trade. So I'd like to point out that 3keys is fair if you perceive it to be and with the large increase of my points from this suggestion alone suggests others think so as well or have formulated their own ideas as to why this is a valid price.

Also because not everyone buys keys for black paint or buys black paint solely from the store we cannot assume that all these keys are part of just your theory for buying paint. Also the fact that your argument is centered entirely on man co price is just not good enough.

And lol, the fact that you said we are playing a dangerous game literally made me laugh.

Anyway to further disprove your statements, everything natural is equilibrious. And if it's not it will because it will naturally balance. If people do buy from the man co store far more than from traders to the point no one buys from traders, traders will lower the price and thus the perpetuity of trading stays. Then the prices rise and then all happens again if something different doesn't occur.

Also since we are in a position argument we must take every bit of arguable facts. Not a lot of people use money in comparison to the whole. I even get people telling paying for stuff is just stupid. Make profit and then trade up. If everyone did that though this economy will be in short supply. But thanks to balance someone will buy something to capitalize on escalated prices.

You wrote this

" In case you haven't noticed no one pays 2.5 USD for a key only in the man co store. In paypal trades we see a price of 1.3-1.5 USD"

I responded with this

"You say nobody pays for keys in Mann Co?

When this year started there were around 380 000 keys around.

Now there are 456 000.

Thats is 76 000 reasons why you are wrong in your statement nobody buys from the store. "

You answer with

"Hmmm very interesting where did I say no one buys keys from man co?"

My repsonse now is,

Do you see it?

Interesting theory about fair trade and relative perspective. That is kinda like a thief saying he didnt steal the TV it was from his perspective a long-term borrow which would be paid back somewhere in the future. Different views on a an event or action. Right?

You can try to go with academic theories and fail, but most comments I seen here that support your suggestion are from black paint-traders. I mean come on, of course you get support from a paintseller that the baseline-price for black paint should be higher. That is nothing relative, thats the ambition to get higher profit.

You write

"Also because not everyone buys keys for black paint or buys black paint solely from the store we cannot assume that all these keys are part of just your theory for buying paint. Also the fact that your argument is centered entirely on man co price is just not good enough."

I never said those keys bought in Mann Co store were all going to be used to buy paint. (you brought up the keys implying nobody bought from mann co store). I implied that that since people have the brain to work out how to buy a key, they can just as easy work out how to buy paint if the price on the free market gets too high. And it is interesting you decide that you have the wisdom to say my idea of Mann Co store not being as you put it "good enough". When it is very simple logic. Mann Co Store now offers hats(clean ones now), paint, keys and so on for firm prices. If the free market prices reaches above those prices more will buy from Mann Co. That is just a matter of the cheapest supplier on the market(where Mann Co do have infinite supplies).

"To further disprove your statements"

You havent disproved anything, you just stated you are laughing and everything is relative.

Trades go up and down. Thing thow is there are risks pushing away traders, you dont know how much it will take to get them back.

You now write

"Not a lot of people use money in comparison to the whole. I even get people telling paying for stuff is just stupid"

You wrote before that

"In paypal trades we see a price of 1.3-1.5 USD. The maximum for this range is 4.5, 50 cents less than your theory." On your response to that 3 keys were still not higher then the cost of paint.

Everything is relative indeed, first you use money being used on other locations then Mann Co Store, then you say money is not being used so much. Guess its relative for some depending on which minute they are writing.

If players use paypal, they can use Steam Wallet-money. If players can use Steam Wallet money they can use Mann Co store. Therefore, If players use paypal, they can use Mann Co store.

And trading up was also a nice idea that was really possible further back. But when keyprices are reaching 4 ref, I am curious how fast a new player can become rich by sitting and waiting for metal week after week with one account.

Mann Co Store is important, it has an influence on all prices since it is the source to all supplies. But again I dont care if black paint sellers screw themselves, its you and your fellow sellers problem.

I do care when comments state "3 key is a fair trade" like its an absoulute.

The ambition for higher profit has nothing to do about fair trading.

WoW,

That's what I thought. Well I thought this, "Wow this is a long response, is it worth reading?"

I think you misunderstand relativity with your odd thief explanation. To clear up that contradictory statement you manage to form from my words, now see you're twisting the intentions of what I said. My response by buying outside from the man co store just makes clear of how there's other ways to use money. You would be paying 5 dollars for black paint. You could just buy keys for 1.5 if you're willing to take the risk of the paypal cash trades, though TF2 shop makes this a lot safer. Speaking of this excerpt I never said that it will increase the cost of paint. See how these statements of yours a forced perspective?

I suppose you're right however with the fact that trading up is much harder now. But like an unstable economy it is more lucrative. For example if a stock of a company goes down due to a recession and you buy from their stock after the recession it goes up. Generally that would work unless you're really bad at determining stocks.

And dude your discourse of this price suggestion seems to emanate from simple hate. Now that statement is really a 50/50 shot of me getting that right but see you hate it when people raise prices for profit don't you? I think my comment is justified by your last three lines. Speaking of your last few lines in line number you again conjure statements that's a morphed version of mine. I said 3 keys is fair because it's an open market. By that case if anything can be sold without scamming or sharking then it is a legitimate price. I think you just misunderstand certain aspects of my argument. Maybe clouded by your somewhat tense tone. You also said that you never said that the keys being bought are all going to buying paint. True. But did you not see how this is the only application in your case?

By the way relativity in my use is how there's no set absolute value not weather if something is relative to a situation. The relative to situations only work of fools who do not notice when one completely goes against what they're saying in hopes of winning an argument. Usually when you find those though people do not have anything further to say as they have been bested.

Also though I totally disagree with your comment I like how formidable you are at challenging someone's point of view. You'd make an excellent politician, you'd convince most people to accept or deny something. Unless of course another politician usurps you.

Anyways did you not see tl_34_96's post, he has a valid argument on both of our statements. And I suppose that your -7 points incurred on your two previous statements is why they're so correct right?

Nice, I never thought math would actually work in technicality of using paypal trades. The transitive property of equality just made your statement of if people can use paypal to use steamwallet and if steamwallet can be used on the man co store than paypal is can be used on man co store. But you're missing the point in your attempt to use technicality that hasn't merit. See I'm sure you're aware that I am speaking of the private trades of cash done with real players and not with steam. Though you could technically use paypal to pay for valve purchases this has nothing to do with the other. Your blatant attempts of illusion from word play makes your argument less valid. Since it seems to be too a good part of your statements. Whereas my contradicting statements were forced from yours.

Selling at 2 keys + 2 ref is quite easy, as once architeK changed price to 2 keys + 2 ref, it was sold within an hour. As 2 keys + 2 ref is above the current price, I agree that the price should be raised but not to the extent that the OP's suggested, as 3 key trades are not too common. Perhaps 2.3-2.8 keys (just a suggestion) would be more reasonable, as selling at 2 keys + 2 ref is fairly easy and selling at 3 keys is fairly difficult, though some people will buy for 3 keys. Thank you.

2 keys + 2 ref is roughly 2.5 keys. (2.55 if you want to be exact)

that's in the new range, +Up

Of course it's in the new range...it's the top of the old range.

See the point I'm basing why this range is good is the fact that there's been recent sales of the lowest and highest listed prices. The middle ground is what people will do most of the time anyways. The buyer wants the low end the seller wants the high then they say let's meet in the middle. The reason why there's not as much as you'd like is because the price is the highest. The lowest price has much less than the highest price yet it's been accepted.

Price seems to be fine right now. Unless more proof of sales at 3 keys is given I'm going to downvote.

I would like to let everyone now I'm tired of posting here it's nothing but back and forth ceaseless argument between a sect few. So I ask if anyone asks for more proof that the good people of this site post proof of what people as for. Also I'm sure you won't be able to see the number of up or downvotes because of the fact that you cant see the points from this. Well I have gained 30 points as of 267 votes, 6 of which were from accepted suggestions so 24 is the number of points I got from this suggestion. Meaning there are more up than downvotes, I will keep you updated if you wish to do so. I also promise to tell you the truth even if the number goes drastically down.

These are easy to find for around 2.5 keys or less:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8339834 2.55 keys x 6

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8386732 2.55 keys x 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8468074 2.55 keys x 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8453893 2.55 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8384998 2.55 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8458817 2.55 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8465381 2.50 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8463827 2.50 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8425159 2.47 keys x 3

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8460968 2.47 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8462086 2.28 keys x 11