Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 3.55–3.66 ref

Problem is if this gets through, people start buying for 3.66 and selling for 3.77. if bp.tf stops increasing the price keys wont go up that fast. so downvote

This site's purpose is to properly represent the price, not dictate it. The market does that on it's own.

this is how it should be, but it isnt. if this site would stop changing key price, outpost would stop increasing as well.

that will happen regardless of this vote

I´ve made this suggestion 2 days ago, and it was closed. With my luck, it´s sure this suggestion will be accepted xD

Oh your name is dido killer. So sorry, I wrote dildo killer when I gave you credits for the proof. It won't let me edit the post now. -.-

I lolled.

It´s fine, no problem xD

dildo killer? X__X

I may be wrong, but since this is in the current range wouldn't you need to show a large amount of 3.44 buyers not being able to buy? By this reasoning I am staying neutral for now.

nice proof but I can usually get them at 3.44 and sometimes even lower (one time recently bought some keys for only 3 ref) I have no proof and you have a lot solid suggestion

yes, yes, but can it blend?

As long as it is in a Blendtec, it will blend.

Damn... where's the popcorn when I need it the most?

*leens back, pulls out cheez-its

obligatory "what happened to the good old days of 2.66?"

"I remember when it was 2.33"

"youre ruining the economy"

"make it two keys while your at it"

and then the frequent proof-less suggestions following this.

anyway, upvoted

"I remember when keys were 4.66 a peice"

signed GSC

october, 27th 2013

anyways upvote

"I remember when I had one for the first time. The feeling was so good. I wanted more and more. The feeling when I used it was so good and exciting. Some people even got addicted to it. Now it's old and nobody cares. It's not worth all the work and trouble."

Oh wait, aren't we talking about keys?

You forgot a good one, " the key occonomy is just going to crash, just wait."

dont forget

"I still buy keys for 2.66 on trade servers"

http://puu.sh/1YZl7

Are people really gonna suggest a new price every 3 days?

It seems people here trust tf2finance a lot, why not link the price of keys to it automatically? This way we don't get 2 new suggestions every week.

Yea, we should just link it and remove key suggestions all together, upvote btw

I suggested this a month ago, but apparently base64 said it was better to use it a resource, not the only ball on the field.

I agree we should just link it to the tf2finance-price, this is getting pretty annoying (the suggestion is perfect, but changing the price every other day is just annoying)

What is wrong with you people why do you keep wanting keys to go up! the only reason they go up is because there are more sellers than buyers and all you people are so dependant on this site! stuff no longer goes up for legitimate reasons they go up because you sellers keep jacking them up

accualy sellers jack em up thats fine but cant blame sellers blame people who buy at this high mate >_

yes I totally agree, I love this site its an great concept but it should be used as a base like spreadsheet use to be people are far too dependant on this site for prices!

true that man, somepeople treat this as a religion lol

It's simple. Someone buys a key in a hurry for a highballed brice and info goes to backpack.tf INSTANTLY. This is how it was all the time and how it will always be. Greedy people invaded outpost and backpack.tf. Downvoted and always will. inb4dislikes from greedy kiddies.

I disliked your comment because your reasoning is completely biased and way too simple, it's not backpack.tf or greedy people on outpost who ruin the market, it's the hordes of people who pay these highballed prices (just like you: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7850787 , at that time that was the high-end and people were already complaining about the greedy sellers)

-> be smart, don't buy Keys anymore -> the price will drop automatically

"-> be smart, don't buy Keys anymore -> the price will drop automatically"

"-> be smart, don't buy Keys anymore"

Did you hear what you just said?

yea do u have any sort of idea what "supply and demand regulates the market" means? I guess not, it's simple: Demand > Supply -> prices go up, Demand < Supply -> prices go down, it's not magic, it's basic economics

I can't just stop looking for keys when I need them. So can't the rest of the market. You basically stated that THE WHOLE MARKET must stop buying keys in order to make their price drop.

and that's exactly how economics works..and I said the whole market has to stop accepting these highballed prices, stop paying 3.55-3.66 Ref..the problem is right now there is always some desperate kid who will pay 3.66 and more for a Key, that's what's ruining the market..the best example is the hype about the discontinued hats, Dirty Batter's Helmets were going for 2 Scrap and nobody wanted them, then Valve said they will be discontinued, suddenly they went up to 1.55 Ref because there was a lot of demand, now they are going back down because ppl are starting to realize "hey, the batter's helmet is still ugly" and the demand goes down..demand regulates the price just as much as supply does, buyers are influencing the price as well

It's obvious but the kids will keep buying keys for more and more once thier price rises.

can't blame the sellers or backpack.tf or tf2op for that, they are the one's who ruin the market, this page merely reflects on the current price of Keys, downvoting this suggestion because u don't like it is immature and wrong, that's the price right now, nothing else

that's the only way the price is ever going to drop, stop accepting the price as a buyer, stop paying 3.66 Ref, stop accepting Keys as 3.66 Ref and it will drop..whining about it and looking for scapegoats is not gonna help

because everyones just going to stop buying keys...

OH BOY HERE WE GO

The problem with any increase on keys is every single Outpost trader changes their trades every single time to include +1 scrap on top of the backpack.tf prices. They do it to make a profit and then buy at the lower range.

So then people are buying at 3.77 which triggers another price suggestion on here of 3.55-3.77. Rinse, repeat, Rinse, repeat. It will carry on going on like this until key prices are fixed to metal prices or tf2finance.

I'm downvoting this suggestion based on the above.

I don't know why I keep bothering to reply to stupid reasoning like that, but as I'm studying economics I feel the need to educate people talking about stuff like this: this page is merely reflecting the current value of keys, if u r unhappy with the current development stop buying Keys at the high end and stop accepting Keys at the high end of the backpack.tf-value..supply and demand regulate the price, if nobody was willing to pay this price, it wouldn't go up..don't blame this site for reflecting on the current values

I'm sorry, but supply and demand isn't a valid reason anymore. The supply of keys at the moment is higher than even before Halloween 2012 and the average price during it was 3 ref because it was getting low due to the high demand. The demand is back to where it was before Halloween 2012, so what's causing the price to still rise? Don't say the steam market, cause once again, the supply is increasing.

It's simple price manipulation, and backpack.tf is also a victim to it. People have have two choices, pay with free metal or pay with not-so-free cash, and people are likely to choose the former until they reach their limits. Some people already have, and the higher the price goes, the more will follow. Since traders are justifying their prices with item spreadsheets and if 98% of the market is being controlled by these kinds of traders, what can we do? Keys are always in demand, it won't go down until people have reached their limit and that day is coming soon enough.

Also, you can keep saying "don't blame the site" all you want, but we need to accept facts, most buyers use this site as a reference while most sellers use it as a trading bible. Another thing is that the concept of this site has some faults, accurately pricing items for what they are currently is not a feasible way to do it as they change all the time and some items are very unstable (Keys and Buds). Another issue is that being community ran allows people to easily manipulate the market. One must look at the prices of the past, the present, predicted price of the future and human reaction to all three in order to assure the prices are fair and profitable. The issue with doing it the way I just said is that it takes days and a lot of research before coming to a good price, but the outcome is a price that lasts for a good while instead of couple of days. I.E., the key prices that existed before Halloween (2.33-2.66, lasted for more than a year.)

while that was very interesting to read and shows that there are in fact a few people in this community who have a basic understanding of how markets work I must disagree with your conclusions on all 3 levels. The supply is more or less stable throughout the year, goes up during Halloween/Christmas (however so does the demand), and since the introduction of Steam Market I'd say it's actually going down a little bit (also very surprisingly to me the market price of Keys is well above 2$, I sold 1 Key for 2.47$ instantly last week, showing how massive the demand is right now). In conclusion I must dismiss your first point completely, supply is not increasing.

The second point starts off quite badly, because nobody in this community is powerful enough to manipulate the price, too many sellers and buyers who can make a choice whether to accept a price or not, right now, more than ever, buyers are accepting pretty much any price on the market, I personally have stopped buying Keys for metal since they went above 3 Ref, if everybody else did the same the price would still be 3 Ref, but because the demand is so insanely high, sellers can ask for more and buyers are paying instantly..make a trade right now, maybe change your name too, to make it obvious, and sell 100 Keys at 3.33 each..I'm telling u right now that u'd be sold out in less than 4 hours, 2 hours if it was a Saturday..

And blaming this site is just wrong, u r right this site is currently used as the bible of trading, very much unlike when trading slowly became popular and spreadsheet was used by the "professional traders" and most noobs had no idea it existed, right now pretty much everybody uses backpack.tf, but the prices on here are just a reflection of the current market value and that's all this will ever be..if this was supposed to be something like the European Central Bank, u r right we should base prices on the past, predicting the situation in the future, thinking about what's fair for everybody and how we can manage to distribute the wealth so that even the poor people can afford some kind of wealth, but this is merely a reflection of the current sales..the only "central bank" this game has is Valve, they can take actions against the market development and make changes to their dropping and crafting system to stop the "Metal-Flooding", backpack.tf isn't made for regulation, it's made for reflection

The steam market may not be reducing the supply of keys, but it did change the rules, and it did increase demand. Keys are in high demand because they are quick to sell on the steam market, and they give a very efficient conversion from items to steam wallet funds even including the cut.

Keys are valued for their utility, and until they add metal to the steam market keys are going to be in high demand; keys can open crates, metal can't. Keys are marketable, metal is not.

I could go on, but we already had this conversation in the forums, and on every previous key suggestion...

I do think it's taking just a couple of buyers away from the Mann.Co Store so less new Keys enter the cycle, but you are completely right that it increased the demand drastically..I myself usually sell Keys through PayPal, during the Winter Sale I converted all of my Metal into Keys and sold most of them through the Market and bought new games without investing a penny and lots of others did the same..

Good point, you're right about that, Keys are seemingly free cash on your steam wallet now. And yes, I'm well aware of our previous conversations. (It was only twice, on the same forum, a month ago...)

Perhaps I'm thinking of a different economics major then... :P

>the supply is increasing

You are confusing Money Supply (Quantity of Money) with Supply (Quantity willing and able to sell at various price).

>demand is back to where it was before

There is a change in preference of Keys, i.e. desirability over refined.

There is a change in expectations of price of Keys.

There is a change in Transaction Demand for Money (Keys), i.e when half a million Strange Festive worth more than 2 Keys entered the market, more Money is required as a medium of exchange.

----

Not saying that I'm supporting this suggestion.

So basically, all valid arguments aside, you're downvoting because you're afraid all that free metal lying around in your backpack will be worth a lot less soon? Key prices aren't rising, metal prices are falling. I'm changing key prices in terms of metal. Change your perspective before it's too late, mate.

@Jerrinho, it will only keep rising this way. And once it shall become 5 refined per key and we all know it. And it shall happen very, very soon.

if the buyers are willing to pay 5 refined in the future that will be the price in the future, but blaming backpack.tf or greedy sellers for it is stupid, I have stopped buying keys when they became 3+ Ref and so should everybody else

The key traders ARE the problem, there are no two ways around it. Denying it is the same thing as admitting it

who is owner of tf2 finance? some key dealer?? ^^

Base 64

You gathered many proof for the raise,which are far enough nad good, i'd sold my keys for 3.11 months ago, and the price is slightly rising over time, so i'm gonna upvote it

ref farming, thats why key prices are so high

valve REALLY needs to find a way to stop the massive idling lol

Some idle server are really fun to play, at least its not just standing there and dying.

were talking about, say, someone creates a server i forget which map itemtestsomeshit has 32 seperate acc's. smashes those acc's in that server and farms all the drops. its free metal for them. i think its 13 drops a week so 416 drops per week. quiet amazing really but very wrong

i know, but thats beyond my comprehension of gaming at all

not to mention Xmas double drop rate

This is ridiculous.

upvote. but still i am asking what happend, so many idle accounts? :D

guess this year it will go up to 4 refs, but more refs would be insane.

Ill tells what happened

halloween (overused now but reason it raised to 2.88-3)

massive idling (metal is "worthless")

steam market (demand rose easy to make proffit from it)

over all greed (self explanitory)

desprate buyers (self ecplanitory)

snowball effect (we raise to the accurite price, and sellers raise slightly above(would happen without us here but would be much slower))

Seems legit. Few peeps are selling at 3.55 and Many selling for 3.66-3.77. upvote

i am buying at 3.44 and got one^^

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8442816

True, but it's not enough compared to what he has found. :)

DIS GONNA B GUD

Now that's just stupid and unnecessary. I've bought plenty of keys at 3.44 on the past few days, so it shouldn't go up in my opinion. But who cares? Suggestions that increase the price of keys will always be accepted. Make it 3.77 already.