Suggestion: Refined Metal at $0.35–$0.38

Price Suggestion

Refined Metal

Submitted Thu, 14 Feb 13 17:44:35 +0000 by ★ Jester

51.38%

$0.38–$0.40

$0.35–$0.38

~$0.03

521 votes up

493 votes down

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This suggestion was closed Tue, 19 Feb 13 04:12:14 +0000 by Brad Pitt | statsroyale.com.

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Comments

Refined prices are falling now that key prices (in USD) have fallen. Revised based on comments. I'm doing this from my phone so if there is a typo or screwed up link sue me. :P

Selling at:

$0.35

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8468465

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7903214

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8608719

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8618513

$0.36

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8572108

$0.37

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8397072 (100+ in stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8456794

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8465496

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8437831

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6063300 (11 rub = 0.37usd)

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/127030-650-Refined-(-0-37-ea)?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136354-646-ref-0-37-each?highlight=ref+refined

$0.38

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7803273 (200 in stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/3141974

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8471459

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8556280

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136259-Keys-1-30-each!-2-Keys-Left-30ref-0-38ea?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136759-Ref-0-38-Bills-10?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/137033-WTS-Refined-Metal-0-38-each!?highlight=ref+refined

$0.36-0.40 (range depending on the amount you buy)

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/135418-Refined-0-36-0-40?highlight=ref+refined

FYI, for those of you that understand why this matters, this results in an average price of $0.365 ea. At the current exchange rates, this will produce key prices of $1.31 and buds @ $36.14 which is much closer to real life but the buds is still about 9.5% too high. Which means Unusual pricing will still be messed up, but it will be less messed up. The only way to correct this issue will be to allow usd voting on keys and buds since the 3 currencies do not directly convert, like how a five dollar bill gives you five $1 bills. The only way to accurately show correct unusual prices, backpack values, and regular item prices is to set the usd value for each of the TF2 main currencies, keys, refined and buds. A suggestion has been posted for this, if you are interested, it can be found http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864958451730896468/

Sellers for $.35:

1 - has 5 in backpack, not a serious seller.

2 - has 6 in backpack, not a serious seller.

3 - has 10 in backpack, not a serious seller.

4 - has 150+ Only person with decent stock at $.35. Others are useless.

Not sure if you have enough evidence of a $.35 bottom end. I'd go with $.36. Especially since your sources are from outpost which isn't where the majority of cash trading takes place.

Well i didn't go through tons of source trades, outpost is better for active trades anyway imo. Most source sellers post on outpost too. My outpost trades bump constantly, but i only bump my sop like twice a week.

As far as stock goes, i don't put a ton of merit into that, as you are aware, as long as you have keys, buds or Paypal you can get more stock fast usually.

Outpost is not better for cash traders. I have trades on both. Outpost gets very few hits. SOP is where the majority go to buy/sell cash items due to trust issues. Outpost is the land of scammers.

I didn't say one was better than the other for traders. I said outpost is much better to find ACTIVE trades. Ppl bump less on source, trades that should be closed get bumped by buyers, and the user base is far smaller. Btw, don't kid yourself It's the mannconomy that is full of scammers, not some website over another. I have heard of plenty of long cons that took place on source.

Your experience with sales on source vs outpost is just that, your experience, not a global fact. Easily 90% of my cash t trades originated from outpost. The reality is that both sites get used and i have provided proof from both locations.

Btw, wouldn't you say you are biased since you actively sell refined?

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136333-Refined-Metal-39-each-200-in-stock?highlight=ref+refined

Stop grasping at straws. That thread hasn't been touched in 2 weeks.

Lol I'm not grasping at straws, I did a search for sellers on source in the last couple weeks and i noticed your trade that's all.

Yep because they sell out so quick at 35 cents. I used to buy out people doing 35 cents. I've got other friends that just buy out others too. Since people are still selling keys at $1.30 the 35 cent price will happen sooner or later.

Ok well in response, Sellers:

1 - Claims to have done $15,000 in cash trading, I'd call that a serious seller

(Not to mention it's an obvious alt, from SOP rep: "All moderators in my group "Junglord Trading and Investing" are confirmed alt accounts and are safe to trade with." so who knows where she keeps here stuff.)

2 - Now has 10 in his BP so they are actively restocking

3 - Appears to have sold out and closed his trade. (So you are right here)

4 - Still has significant stock as you mentioned (150+)

I don't see why these should be ignored. Just b/c they don't have it in their BP right this very minute doesn't mean they aren't active. You don't know what alts they use, when they restock etc. Short of adding them and asking them (which is way too overboard for this) we have to go on what we have.

MUCH MUCH better, upvote.

Was waiting for this. You've got the proof, upvote on my behalf. Anyone else agree?

Here are some active source sellers that have bumped the trade recently:

0.38

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136259-Keys-1-30-each!-0-Keys-Left-50ref-0-38ea?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136759-Ref-0-38-Bills-10?highlight=ref+refine

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/130215-Refined-0-38-each?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/137033-WTS-Refined-Metal-0-38-each!?highlight=ref+refined

0.37

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/133339-Ref-0-37-Buds-Bills-Keys-more-Accepting-PP-amp-Bitcoins?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/129714-8-Buds-34-114-Keys-1-30-163-Ref-0-37-7-pages-of-REP!?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/127030-650-Refined-(-0-37-ea)?highlight=ref+refined

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136354-646-ref-0-37-each?highlight=ref+refined

0.35

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/136905-Ref-0-35-each?highlight=ref+refined

$.35 is sold out.

Yes he said he's restocking and he has 2 buds and a bills in his BP. Shouldn't be real tough for him to restock.

Somehow I missed this one, also selling for $0.35:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8420868 (~100 in stock, 15 pgs of SOP rep)

This is exactly the spread that Brad mentioned in the previous suggestion and I fully agree. Upvoted!!

I like the amount of proof and its consistency now but I am going to remain neutral on this until some more opinions get posted as I am new to the whole voting thing here.

Never give up. ;)

Damn right. :P

Someone has to try to fix it if brad isn't going to.

Yeah or at least to gather attention about the bud price problem. I posted again in your thread btw. ;)

Almost the same suggestion as the one rejected with the same useless tf2outpost proof.

I guess that's how that site operates on prices now.You open suggestion until someone accepts it.

Not enough proof for 0.35 or 0.36,0.37 sellers have low reps,most of them doesnt even have 1 key donation to tf2outpost,which means they arent serious at all in business,and therefore not trustworth for people to make cash trades with.

coming the 0.38,its the current range,so this is a bad suggestion with bad proof.

Actually i closed the last one and resuggested based on the constructive input of the others.

Donations have nothing to do with rep, plenty of ppl have been banned that were donators. If outpost is useless, why are you commenting on their "donator status" as a counter argument?

Btw, the only thing that the price of refined does is set bad cash prices for keys and buds. Those bad prices are then used to convert the cash price of Unusuals into key/bud prices. Which is worse, refined at a justifiable avg price of 0.37 or the current unjustified $39 price of buds? That is what is bad, not this suggestion.

What i meant is supporting outpost is useless.Useless people,useless profiles,useless business,a.k.a land of scammers.

What you want is to lower the price of buds,to fix unusual prices.But you're doing it wrong,trying to screw up another key economy of the game.So stop.Go and suggest you need seperate cash value for buds.This isn't,and wont be how its done.

I have done that, Brad told us to do it this way.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864958451730896468/

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864956554753352665/#c864958088528904702

How is correcting keys to $1.30 and buds to ~$36 "screwing up the economy"? refined clearly can be bought for less than the current range and current bud and key prices are waaay off. I'm trying to correct the values to realistic ranges not super highball values.

As response to Brad Pitt's post

This is the point.It should make sense,but refined has whole other cash market then just cash key prices divided by key/ref currency.

There isn't enough proof refined is that low (since it is not) and doing that will just lead to lowering it more onwards to break one of the very main currencies of the game.

You should set another bud price and open it to suggestions,which would be updates as frequently as refined metal and would fix theese problems since we clearly have eager people to help bud prices to get unusual prices sorted out.

I block all donaters from outpost as they always have the highest prices, they are always for profit traders they are also always the lowballers on your trades. a lot of people do this and there's a popular script for doing just that.

Changing the price of metal chipping away at existing values is just getting ridiculous on this site and influences prices more than actual trades and the same for keys. instant downvote every time I see one now it's fucking up the economy just so people can get internet points here.

Most of the collectors are donators too and I donate on every site I use frequently. You can't pigeonhole every donator this way.~

Actually there are many people selling ref for the suggested price or at least a price near that so it's not that much off. And I don't belive any economy get's destroyed if this suggestion gets accepted.

It's so much in the existing rage though, people here like to chip away at the price of things with price changes that aren't needed, the prices here are so restrictive for the market I'm starting not to bother with it and 90% of the votes are using outpost as a reference and ignoring every other trading venue. Outpost the worst place for high and low ballers, it gets harder and harder to find fair deals on that site and any evidence can be tailored to win any vote. I have not yet seen any votes including the Steam market even though some items sell for much more on there as outpost and just as many sell for much less than outpost, yet this seems to be totally ignored, the steam market is now the largest trading site in the game for vintage/genuine/tools etc and because this place can't seem to use anything but outpost 99% of the time I have made a hefty profit because the shitty price ranging here is detached from reality and I'm not a for profit trader I'm more of a collector, a real profit orientated trader could make a killing because this place is doing a shitty job.

And you can't buy refined on the steam market, so it's useless for this suggestion.

If you want to complain about the site as a whole use the forums.

No you can't, it's just a good example of large sections of the market being ignored by this site, which will eventually place the site in poor favor.

I don't listen to ppl that are VAC banned

http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561197970988497

This is your argument? C'mon.You can do better then running away from arguments like this.VAC ban can easily be recorded by using cheat codes or trailers in offline games (like GTA) and has nothing to do with ones ideas and opinions.

I'm not running from any argument. He claims that all donators are basically ruining the market somehow. He also says that this site is somehow destroying the economy. By being vac banned he has done something against the rules. I will listen to ppl that are worth listening to.

You said his opinions are wothless because he has VAC ban.You can read it right above,how can you defend otherwise?

This is plain stupid on your side,not his,and now you are twisting his words.Read again.

"I block all donaters from outpost as they always have the highest prices, they are always for profit traders they are also always the lowballers on your trades."

--irrelevant rant. All donators are pro traders that lowball and highball? One, who cares. Two, it's a useless comment that has no relevance to this suggestion.

"Changing the price of metal chipping away at existing values is just getting ridiculous on this site and influences prices more than actual trades and the same for keys. instant downvote every time I see one now it's fucking up the economy just so people can get internet points here."

--irrelevant rant. Prices here are based off advertisements. I really don't see how documenting trades can "F__ up the economy". If someone doesn't understand supply/demand and inflation they shouldn't be talking about the price of refined. Refined is given away for free. Everyday. Keys must be purchased. Unless the player base drops, the price of refined must drop by definition.

Are we done with this now? Because i am. There is zero useful contribution to this suggestion. No proof or counter-proof.

I'm not vac banned sweetheart, this account is from when it was my brothers but nice try.

Um yes you are vac banned. That account is banned. Look at your steam rep

How about stop dropping the price of metal and drop the price of buds.

how about you make your own suggestion or provide counterproof when making such a blatant statement.

You can't set the price of buds or keys. Refined sets the price for those items automatically.

cuz there definatly arent ppl who sell keys for 3ref each to craft hats...

People who sell keys for 3 ref each? I'll buy the whole stock.

I have done that, Brad told us to do it this way.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864958451730896468/

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/2/864956554753352665/#c864958088528904702

As response to Brad Pitt's post

This is the point.It should make sense,but refined has whole other cash market then just cash key prices divided by key/ref currency.

There isn't enough proof refined is that low (since it is not) and doing that will just lead to lowering it more onwards to break one of the very main currencies of the game.

What mystifies me is why the key price in USD is being kept artificially low, if the price of keys is what it is in terms of refined. Would that not be classified as price fixing? As in making it artificially low so that refined can lose value?

This is why I do not understand why key prices are what they are.

Basing this off of tf2finance, whereas the price of keys in terms of metal has gone up by 1 refined, the price has remained stagnant on tf2finance in terms of USD. These repeated attempts to devalue refined for no reason is pissing a lot of players off, the whole purpose of the refined prices is to keep key prices at status quo, and everyone who does not have their whole life revolve around trading is getting pissed off at this website.

This is price fixing both ways, pure and simple. Denying the obvious only confirms that notion.

Refined loses value due to inflation. Everyday more and more metal comes into the market. Cash prices of keys is based on supply and demand.

I'm not sure what you mean by "why the key price in USD is being kept artificially low" can you explain your question?

Look at the prices for keys in terms of USD. The red bar. Notice anything suspicious like I did? The prices for keys in USD have been around $1,30 SINCE LATE JUNE. If the price of refined is so low, in terms of trading and USD, then why are the keys pretty much flat lined in terms of USD?

Because people sold and bought most of the keys for ~1.30$ since june.

Keys are basically flat because they are sold for a given amount in the steam store. The Blackmarket has risk, steam store does not. At a certain dollar amount, someone would rather buy from the store to avoid the risk.

That's why keys should be the main currency for the site, not refined. Refined experiences inflation, keys are priced by the buyers and sellers.

Read my posts here: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5109f57aba2536ff5f000002

I explain a lot about this subject in a couple of the comments.

the whole thing is a farce... lmao. good to see people are finally catching on :P

they just keep putting up the price of keys, and ofc people keep askin for a scrap or 2 more... and they keep putting down the price of everything else, obviously people are just going to make lower lowballs.

and trust me... the serious traders are even more annoyed.

this site has basicly ruined trading... lol

Great, thanks for the support. All of this drama is because of the currently used conversion system. Allow buds, keys and ref to be voted on in usd and it all goes away. Normal items would be accurately valued along with bp's and Unusuals. I an merely trying to get more accurate prices. That fact that the cash value of refined defines the displayed unusual price is hysterical. When was the last time you bought an unusual with refined? Lol

I wish Brad Pitt would just fix the way Unusuals are being priced. I just don't get why this hasn't been fixed. It is by far the BIGGEST problem with this site. I personally am burned out on explaining to people why the Unusual prices on backpack.tf are all wrong due to using Refined's Dollar value to calculate. I mean, they are probably about a bud off for every 5 buds of value. Which is like 20% and that's HUGE. Come on Brad, fix this nightmare. Please. :(

Amen brother. That's why i made this post:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/1/864958451470647556/

Wow, and I bought 20 refined from someone yesterday for 40 cents per ref... I could've saved a little money. Upvoted :D

Your living proof that the price should not be changed.

He is the living proof that people should put a bit more effort into their researches, before they buy something.

and by 40 cents, i mean including the tax for each one... (the fee from paypal)

Then you got pretty high fees.

Agreed. The price is falling because of keys.

Key prices in usd have fallen?

Yeah they were like $1.50 during the unboxing craze. You can get them for about $1.30 pretty easily now. The major reason refined has fallen is because the ref per key price has increased while the $ per key price has decreased.

who got that vintage metal?

HE OWNS 4 OF THEM! BEAT HIM!!!

lol

10 char

how the hell did you get someone to like a string of 10 spaces?

Next level

i dont see how you can provide sufficient proof for paypal transactions but if you can i will upvode as i get the feeling that this is failing !

Huh? How do you want proof of transactions? I don't sell or buy ref do i can't do that, i doubt many would post transaction histories.

I'm still a fan of this.

OK Admins. It's time to accept or deny this. 4 Days and over 800 votes is plenty of time and votes to accept this price or not. Lets move on. Thanks.

as long as weapons are still dropping metal prices will continue to fall

I don't understand this anymore, what are the mods waiting for? it's already at 1K +5 votes

closing because was http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511e91fbba25361975000006 accepted and the script failed to close this one.