Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 3.66–3.77 ref

People sell it at 3.88 ref and 4 ref sometimes. If you want proof of it not selling at 3.55 ref, you are in charge of finding this proof. Scrap.tf buys/sells at 3.55/3.66, and is always sold out.

but if they are sold out that means they had keys to sell...

Bacon, I tried to get at 3.55 yesterday, and that is not easy anymore.

Bought yesterday for 3.55

I also bought a few for 3.55

more proof. enjoy downvoting me please.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7932761

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8633695

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6997536 (3.74 is visible as offer, many adds after that, claims to have sold >100 at 3.77)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8404555 (sold at 3.77 for at least 2 days, is now out of keys and raised to 3.88)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8638249 (buying for 3.77)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8476487 (fluke, sold one for 4ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8540530 (3.71 buyer is visible, now raised to 3.88)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8728761

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8728758

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8727987

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8728709

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8726781

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8621343

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8688001

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8717512

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8679299

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8720235

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8624580

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8719653

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8680619

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8696306

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8655892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8708352

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8718266

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8623565

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8717873

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8597842

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8727118

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8718225

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8728962

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8665935

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8684383

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8718582

Also, tf2finance.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

Edit: Currently at 3.69 ref.

Wait, why is this one being downvoted? It's lists and lists of buyers at 3.66, one even at 3.88, showing the bottom end is no longer correct.

Cause man, the mid range is where 9/10 of the deals will take place, outpost isnt the only source for deals imo.

More proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8740488

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8742346

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8740229

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8679811

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8723559

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8611674

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8667474

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8716569

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8275952

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8671111

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8724673

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8611674

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8736405

More proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8737105

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8754930

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8755496

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8677982

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8717512

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8726185

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8736501

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8712837

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8755474

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8753305 3.77 buying

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8732465

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8721792

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8739576

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8754968

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8733016

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8692576 buying at 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8755432

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8743121

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8702259

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8736405

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8275952

Obligatory TF2Finance link, http://tf2finance.com/keys/ -- currently at 3.71 ref.!

These are the first 20 trades that I saw when I searched for keys on Outpost. People selling them at 4 ref. have made a few sales, 3.77 sell almost instantly and nobody sells keys at 3.66 refined anymore so that range's pretty much out of the seller's market.

1. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8652358 - 3.8 ref.

2. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369543 - 4 ref.

3. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8520658 - 4 ref.

4. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8647305 - 3.77 ref.

5. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8743495 - 3.77 ref.

6. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8692449 - 4 ref.

7. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8528250 - 4 ref.

8. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7950662 - 3.88 ref.

9. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8286162 - 3.88 ref.

10. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8159994 - 3.77 ref.

11. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8638021 - 3.88 ref.

12. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8628117 - 3.88 ref.

13. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8695008 - 4 ref.

14. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8673468 - 3.88 ref.

15. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8638021 - 3.88 ref.

16. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8540530 - 3.88 ref.

17. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8743781 - 3.77 ref.

18. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8709103 - 3.88 ref.

19. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6931254 - 4 ref.

20. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8728313 - 4 ref.

Will post buyers proof if needed but even newbies at SPUF know that people try to buy keys at 3.66.

I fucking hate you so much, because you have devalued my items so much before. People like you are the reason so many epic traders are quitting now.

could you ? after receiving a ton of downvotes on my other suggestion ?

Guys, seriously. The FIRST thing he says is "Hey guys, I have over 200 keys and I want to increase my backpack value." That is blatantly breaking the rules. Do I need to repeat myself? Could he really be more stupid?!

Meanwhile you still getting soaked in the rain of downvotes

The rules state that a good suggestion should be accepted, even if the suggester has to gain for it. He has solid proof, what more do you want?

Long, I disliked every comment you made so that more people can downvote you.

bro, I couldn't care less of how many downvotes I have in this suggestion. it mean nothing to me as it won't be count as counter proof when the mods come here to approve it.

how ignorant can u get jesus

How stubborn can you get when all the proof is right there.

you can have 0 positive votes, and the suggestion can still pass. If you really want this suggestion to be disapproved then go find some counterproof, cuz your not helping anything here. The mods will look at the proof for accepting the price, Just cuz some immature children dont want the price to change doesn't mean its not changing. Grow up guys.

Lol I love how 3 people disliked mine even though it was a joke, argh, f2ps........

I disliked your comment. I'm not f2p.

you can sell them for 3.77 but not easy but people do come to you, i have even sold some at 3.88

They easily sell at 3.77, i can't hold onto keys for more than 10 minutes...

You sure about that? Not that easy on my end at 3.77.

Yep positive.

I was selling mine like hot cakes so i bumped my sell price to 3 craft hats (haven't had any luck as of yet though).

I am having a bit of trouble getting em for 3.66 though

I repeat what I said elsewhere. You have to have some control with the price issue of keys, increasingly adopting a suggestion of higher prices and sales on other sites as Outpost take advantage of it and go up in price it sold, in this case the keys, and then hit another guy with the suggestion that the price rise of keys and so on.

A I'm getting at, that the issue of prices of keys must be controlled, it is not normal soon rise in price, and would arrive later this year with a price that we would not give room for a while, so I give the suggestion that the price of the keys have a price maintained for some time, and finished it is given approval to raise or lower prices, and this is out of hand and it seems disproportionate inflation.

Sorry for my English.

Never tell your password to anyone.

Sunday, February 17, 2013

Long218 B> Quicksell backpack: can you comment something and get praised because you are an awesome man?

Long218 B> Quicksell backpack: [url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5121b042ba2536ae3a000001[/url]

Long218 B> Quicksell backpack: say something deep and sophisticated

♔ Baloo ♔: okay

I like pie.

No Way!!!!

I like pie toooo

Especially of the Pumpkin variety.

this guy is not an awesome man

http://i.imgur.com/YLZKfar.png

I like my twist better.

Edit: WOW! All I am to you is white paint? That was 3 months ago man.

I dislike you for liking your twist better :3

i told ya. I still leave that tag for when you start selling me paints at 4 ref again.

Yeah Long can go fuck himself.

Not with that attitude.

Here we go again.

Well, even TF2 finance kindof agrees with you. 3.68 right now.

3.68 is closer to the current range of 3.55-3.77 (Averaged to 3.66) rather than the new range of 3.66-3.77 (averaged to ~3.71) However, as of the time of this comment tf2finance is stating key prices to be 3.70.

Nice math here.

3.66+3.77/2=3.715

this comment gave me cancer

Back by popular demand.

The trend I see with anyone supporting a key price hike:

- Has at least 30 keys in their backpack, so they have something to gain

- Acts like an Ivy League economics student and makes elitist arguments to anyone who dares disagree with them.

- Spams tf2finance.com, and gushes over it's accuracy like the spreadsheet. Yeah, we all know how that worked for the spreadsheet

- Makes a stupid comment saying that they haven't found a seller selling at the current low price for "a long time," which translates to a week

- Lies about how they have been able to sell at the projected high price, yet refuse to show proof.

- Cites "depreciation of refined" to further support their agenda, and not care that they have done nothing to stop keys from going into the economy.

- Mocks you for not having at least 15 alt accounts

- Spams that something that has a purpose (Refined Metal) is completely useless, and you are a fool for even having it.

- Are the people on outpost spamming QUICKSELL QUICKSELL QUICKSELL on unusuals.

- Think that only a complete moron would unbox crates.

- Think the best advice to new players is NEVER UNBOX, AND HIGHBALL ON KEYS SINCE IT WILL NEVER GO DOWN.

- Are only upvoting these key prices so they can brag about their backpack size like it is a sports car they will never drive, and insult anyone with what they deem to be a low amount of keys.

- Upvote any price that Brad Pitt wants to set because HURR DURR FREE EXTRA POINT OF REP.

- Are secretly terrible players in TF2

- Insult you for making personal choices when trading

- Insult you for not playing TF2 competitively

- Making long winded responses to your list, and type in red text, implying they are pissed off at you.

- Completely ignore the fact that 50000 keys were added within a week..

- Has their whole life dedicated to raising the price of keys on this website.

- Act arrogant when trying to set a new price for the keys.

- Think it is wise to infinitely raise the price of something that is also infinitely available.

This is more relevant in this suggestion, because:

A) This guy has 200+ keys

B) He has QUICKSELL in his name.

I have copied and pasted to two prior suggestions, and have gotten a lot of feedback on them. This is merely some of the behaviors I have noted on this website, all in relation to key prices.

I have nothing against what you say. I simply state that Brad Pitt did not make this suggestion. Other than that I have no further remarks about this comment.

naw man, hes talking about that one ref suggestion where like half the comments where admin=free rep http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51081d79ba25365404000002#5109499eba25364368000002_row

I know, I'm just saying if someone is going to copy and paste their argument, then at least update it to the topic at hand.

How about last one with someone 96.6% accuracy of 800 votes?

Also, funny to see comments like "upvoted" and comment on this "thx Ear :)"

base64's was better: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/50e8b403ba25360e44000002 He poked fun at the spam comments in key suggestions, while you just throw around false accusations.

I fall into points 1,3,6,10,14 and will be staying neutral on the suggestion.

Well, your sixth criticism is invalid: the recent depreciation of refined metal is an effect of Steam Market and other player-to-player TF2 item shops (Hexide, et al) selling keys. These do reduce the supply of new keys (Mann Co.) into the market rather drastically, while no such check is placed on the metal supply, reducing metal's purchasing power in terms of keys. Simple. There is a theoretical infinite availability of keys...but not in practice, as new players are increasingly turning to the Steam Market as opposed to the Mann Co. Store.

Also, you should never craft or unbox. Always a loss of value in the long run. Think of it like playing the lottery or a slot machine.

Contrary to #3, tf2finance.com is an automated site tracking the price of earbuds and keys using huge masses of data gathered from the APIs of numerous trading websites and server communities; all data is freely available and not curated by the website's owner, base64. Totally dissimilar from the spreadsheet.

Many of your other criticisms are ad-hominem, as well, with some being right out of left field (14 and 16 come to mind). I'm fairly certain UGC and ESEA have no TF2 trading league... TF2 trading and gameplay are wholly dissimilar at this point. Also, how would you define an "elitist" argument?

As for #17...well, no red text here. :P

Overall, I respect your sentiment, but you have to realize that, at this point, the TF2 economy has grown far beyond its humble origins of crafting and unboxing. It's no different from a real economy at this point, really. As such, I agree with this price suggestion.

And you have to realize that the economy will crash, and no amount of hiding people who disagree with you will prevent that from happening.

Will the economy crash? Of course it will, like any other economy in the history of civilization. I'm not sure what exactly the point of that statement was.

Our job here is to track the TF2 economy as it is today, not as it was yesterday or as it will be tomorrow.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is called "Positive feedback" [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_feedback[/url]

A= majority of traders, who are not involved in backpack.tf price suggesting.

B=backpack.tf

1)A check B's price. ===> [/b]A[/b] rises price in REFs of Keys.

2)B check A's average price

3)And since A has updated price on first step. B increases price of the keys by 1-2 scrap.

Repeat 1-3 steps and you will get current situation of key-refined market.

"Our job here is to track the TF2 economy as it is today, not as it was yesterday or as it will be tomorrow."

Yeah, you track prices, and then you change current price of keys in ref on backpack.tf . But since most traders are relying on backpack.tf's price. They will increase price. And then you increase price on backpack. And then all starts from beginning: traders are checking backpack prices and etc...

Lol, so because I have 200+ keys I can't make a suggestion ? And there is nothing wrong with buying quicksell.

haters gonna hate ;) calm down man.

Please be civil

I hate the fact that kids with a Backpack value of >$200 are allowed to work their way up to suggesting price drops on hats of 10 buds or more. Liked

As one of those people, who decided to help out the trading community even though I barely trade, the implication of this statement isn't really true. Just because I choose not to use my knowledge to make a profit, doesn't mean the suggestions I make are inaccurate.

Since the first time i had seen this, lets just say opinion for now. I have been watching and reading. You are more right than the wrong in your comments. If you would remove the personal opinions it would be 98% correct about traits and commonalities. Just keep in mind that there is still honest good people out here (doesn't seem like this guy is one of them, but i could be wrong). This guy seems a little self absorbed and into showing as much proof as he could find to get the Key price higher. downvoting

NO U ONLY WANT RAISE VALU WHY DO U ALOOW TO MAK SUGESTON??? PEPRE LIKE U MAK M3 SIC!!!

(jk-upvoted been trying to buy at 3.55 all week and failing)

I don't know. Increasing your own value... Sry I downvote, because this is not a good Idea to increase the key prices at the moment. First: 3 refined. Now: 3.55 refined. Is this not enough for you?

not at all man, especially when people clearly paying more for keys.

I've been going on trade servers and have been able to buy keys at 3.55 still, and honestly don't have a problem with buying at 3.66, I really don't see the need for this suggestion in price change honestly, If you sell at 3.66 and higher, then alright, no need to come back here and make a huge deal over a scrap, sell your keys at whatever, you'll always have buyers as long as it's not at 4 ref. But we're getting there :L, Just the price suggestion is literally the same as the last one, 3.55-.377, if you sell higher, no ones saying anything, the prices for keys is whatever you want to sell at, this suggestion, well there's no need, 3.66 and 3.77 is still in there, soooo...can we please just go a week without someone trying to be ''that guy'' who makes a hug deal over a scrap. What you sell is at what you sell, what others sell is what they sell at, The price suggestion is fine, so we don't need this one for now. So i'm downvoting, because the current, is the same. Still sucessful at buying at 3.55, if proof of my trade history is needed then ok, People can still buy at 3.55, so you're going to need proof that people can't buy at 3.55 if you really want to be ''that guy''

I posted tons of trades to how people are buying at 3.66-3.77. You got any proof beside reasoning ?

Brace yourselves. The show is on air.

wait so u are doing this to benifit urself not to make the price right!?

Can't you sense that strong feeling of trolling ?

As much as I would love to see keys go up I don't think it should be THAT high I think 3.33-3.55ish is good enough on average people buy them at 3.44; Or at least that's what I've seen.

Oh and yeah this is like the 3rd time it has raised in a month.

Mind linking me to these 3.44 ref sellers, i'll happily buy every single key on the market selling for 3.44

A series of serious thoughts to think about during this suggestion, and they do need to be addressed.

If refined metal does fall out of favor and is essentially dragged down to the point that no one will buy refined for money, as some traders want to happen...

What are keys going to be based off of?

Craft hats? But then craft hats would flood the market and refined would be scarce since there is a .demand for the metal to craft hats,and the market value of refined would go back up.

Stranges? But besides the salvaged and festive stranges,there are very few stranges that would be desirable to traders.

Mann Up tickets and Surplus Vouchers? They could be used as currency... but THEY have the same problems as the keys. What do they base their prices off of?

Another serious question to ask: How long until people tire of this site and the constant economics debates that it currently has in regards to keys? How long before it gets the reputation the spreadsheet got? What will the admins do, if anything, to stop this inflation? How long until people stop denying that this site is being read as a bible of sorts?

The most important question:

At this rate, when will it be that people will stop supporting this site and start turning against it?

I do not care if this comment is hidden. It is a series of questions that I think need to be addressed, because if there is no one willing to put the clamps on everything, I believe I have a red letter date:

Halloween 2013.

If we see nothing but key prices rising all the way to Halloween, this site will fall under heavy scrutiny if key prices inflate to 10 refined, which at the rate that prices are rising may very well be plausible by that time. You are going to have a very clear definition of the haves and the have nots, and they will take their business elsewhere. Even worse, the same instance may happen a la the spreadsheet fiasco where the push was made to use this as a pricing guide. They may not honor the prices you set for keys and seek them out for lower. What will be the response then? This sire relies heavily on word of mouth, and if it gets the wrong kind of feedback, there may be a massive disconnect where people will stop going by the prices you set. There would not be new users joining the group in the numbers you want, and there may be more and more people that leave to research prices elsewhere.

Even if, somehow, this site still is trusted with it's reputation, how are you going to address the problems that preside with these key votes? Deny the truth all you want, but this site is referring to TF2Finance, which suspiciously appeared after Halloween as a resource to those selling keys.

How about the fact that there are those that a fair few saying that they are basing their prices off of your site, and in some instances, saying that the prices the post will be the price of keys in a few weeks?

These are questions that need to be answered sooner than later. I don't care about this comment being hidden, because I think for this site to maintain it's reputation, these issues need to be addressed.

Keys should be priced in $ and that's it.

And why/how should this site try to stop the inflation? If keys are priced 3 ref here even more unexperienced traders will sell them for 3 ref but they get bought up instantly because the majority of the people would still sell for more.

That is the kind of mentality that implies a jumping off point. The main flaw of keys is the same flaw that bills, earbuds, and other promos have. Both have a real world currency equivalent and an in game equivalent. The problem you do not see is that for a key to be viable as currency, it needs an in game value to fall back on. The one advantage that every other promo in the game has, even unusuals, is the have buds or keys to fall back on. it has to have an in game value.

Keys have only refined to fall back on, and if the push is successful to make refined worthless, there will be a demand for the keys to have a new in game equivalent. If keys stop being referred to a refined price, as some people want to happen, there is nothing for it to fall back on. For keys to have a viable price, they need to have an in game value.

And you ask why the site should stop the inflation. The answer is pretty simple. Using the ratio that key prices have been going up, at least 2 reclaimed per month, there will come a point where people stop buying at the inflated price and start buying keys off of Mann Co or Steam. You don't want this to happen, because then you are flooded with more sellers than buyers, and people start questioning how the site operates.

You do not understand. If keys have no in game value, only an outside game value, that pretty much makes them worthless in game. They need an in game value to keep people buying in game. Trouble is, if refined is not viable anymore, than what is?

And if this site is too afraid to put their foot down and stop the inflation, how long until it is considered the same thing the spreadsheet was accused of - manipulating the prices of certain items for the benefit of themselves and/or certain other traders?

This site does not have a responsibility to 'put its foot down and stop the inflation'. Entirely because it does not have that power.

Backpack.tf does not set prices. It does not control prices. It reports them. If you want to 'stop the inflation', go to Valve. They're the ones with that power. You suggest that freezing the site's reported key price would save bp.tf from being accused of price manipulation? Exactly the opposite. Doing that, actively refusing to accurately report key prices in an attempt to 'stop inflation', would be attempted price manipulation.

Reporting = price manipulation, Vincent.

So this site should stop to exist?

Would be more than happy.

This couldn't be more wrong. We are manipulating the price in the sense that manipulate means to change, and the only thing we are changing is the listed suggestion. We aren't doing it because its fun, we are doing it because we are simply reporting the prices, not making them go up for fun. If you want the key price to go down, get Valve to find a way to remove refined from the game via crafting that is useable, because as of now, random craft using hats = 2.66, why spend the extra rec and use refined for crafting?

Key prices are not going up, refined is going down. Trying to argue that refined is not going to down is like trying to say water isn't wet.

Keys are not going up in price? THEN WHAT THE HELL IS IT, EINSTEIN? The keys, since November, have gone up ONE FULL REFINED. Even someone who knows nothing about economics knows that the statement you just made about keys not going up in price is complete tripe.

Reporting the prices is still inflation. Denying it only serves as confirmation.

USD price of keys haven't changed, only refined has gone down. Keys have not changed price, refined has gone down. It really is simple, maybe I do have to be Einstein to understand it though. Sorry if that is to hard to comprehend which was made clear by your comment.

And you keep tossing around that word inflation, I bet you've never even taken an economics class before have you? Seems you just like to parrot words, words that you don't know what they mean.

And the price of the key going up in game by a full refined IN GAME is not considered inflation.

Sure it isn't, Simon. And I am the President of the United States.

Well keys going up because 2.66 ref --> 3.66 ref.

Better would be if ref are priced as 1/3.66 keys. Then he would understand it maybe. ;)

Price of keys changed from 30 rub to 40 in few weeks after Market added. Same as keys price rise comparing to gifts, because now every one can sell for 2.1 USD w/o fee and skip PP.

"Entirely because it does not have that power."

It may be bp.tf's goal to accurately reflect mean prices but it's downright disingenuous to suggest that bp.tf isn't a source of forcing within the economy, intentionally or otherwise.

If bp.tf is at all effective in it's goal, it is colouring expectations amongst traders, acting as a positive feedback mechanism and magnifying any upward/downward trends. If bp.tf truly doesn't influence the market in any way, then you might as well shut this place down, as that means people either don't use or don't trust the price estimates listed here.

It's not our goal to influence the market, but we probably do to some degree. Our goal is to report prices and if keys are selling for a certain price, then that's what we must report, whether or not the community likes the price.

"And you ask why the site should stop the inflation. The answer is pretty simple. Using the ratio that key prices have been going up, at least 2 reclaimed per month, there will come a point where people stop buying at the inflated price and start buying keys off of Mann Co or Steam. You don't want this to happen, because then you are flooded with more sellers than buyers, and people start questioning how the site operates."

Except the scenario you've just described is in itself the solution to the inflation issue. It may take the form of a sudden crash or it may be a steady decline but if the ref. price of keys becomes too prohibitive and people do seek keys through other means, the shift in the ratio of key sellers to buyers will result in keys becoming cheaper in ref.

Whether this outcome reflects badly upon bp.tf depends upon how quickly bp.tf can track the hypohetical deflation of keys.

As a side-note, I do agree that the current inflation is ghettoising the lower end of the market. People who make their profits with weapons or craft hats are making less meaningful profits on the same trades, even if the ref. numbers are identical. It is even more destructive than when rich shit traders offer 1:1 trades on weapons and craft hats as a means of self promotion, pricing poorer traders out of the market altogether.

I dislike most of your suggestions, and I think you should really go out and see the sun sometimes, but the proof is here and there's really nothing else but to upvote.

P.S. Vitamin D is really important for your body.

I would go out to the sun even more if sunlight doesn't make my skin itch or that my itch scream smell like dirt

i dont get why people are downvoting your every comment xDDD

usually loser sell keys for 3.77 and 3.88 but i think that keys have gone up WAY to much

....says the guy without any key in BP

Downvoted and of course people are gonna try and sell them for 1 scrap more i mean you have to make profit somehow.

Ignorant trying to increase you bp value just cause you have 200

Sold mine in less then a min for 3.66

Just right now

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8721458

http://i.imgur.com/PdmOFag.png

This suggestion is pointless. You would have my upvote instantly if I wouldn't know that the mods will just look past your proof.

I can predict the future:

Like the previous two 3.66-3.77 suggestions that had equally much proof of 3.55 being wrong in the range, it will be closed, without comment, by "gold in my dick, what up":

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511d46f1ba2536d34f000005

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511d767fba25366411000001

The people in charge will point to tf2finance.com for guidance.

See my rant here:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/0/864959809946339989/

It doesn't help that brad himself is against using outpost as proof:

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/1/864959809745657505/

If a moderator closes this, PLEASE give an explanation why good proof is continuously ignored. If you believe f2finance.com is the truth always, just disable voting on key prices here and copy&paste the value from that page.

My bluebell MIGHT hold some weight unless gold dick found ton of proof at 3.55

Fine, you have my upvote. At this point it makes no difference for my ranking anyways. There is no counter proof for 3.55 except some people claiming they still buy loads of keys at 3.55.

My "Buying@3.66"-Trade didn't even get any adds in 2 hours and that was 2 days ago.

I don't even doubt that you can get keys at e.g. 3.33 ref but that doesn't mean it is a price backpack.tf should put in their range.

Hey Zak, let me show you something: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511ffa41ba2536be18000001

Another reason why I dislike flat values.~

;) To be honest for keys I would even be fine with a flat price if it was at all accurate.

But yes, I prefer ranges as well if their bounds have a meaning. On Unusuals at least I read them as "Price I could quicksell it for" (min) - "Price most people end up selling it for (max)".

In the suggestion you linked, my feeling was that 4 buds would be the lower bound and that the next sale would be > 4 buds (assuming the 4 bud buyer wanted to strike a profit)

That's all speculation, I could say no one else offers more and he end up keeping it or selling for less.

Anyways, enough off-topic I guess. ;)

Its not pointless, thats how bp.tf working, as Markers said.

"I guess that's how that site operates on prices now.You open suggestion until someone accepts it."

everytime key prices rise up sellers r selling them for 1 scrap above the current range and it will never stop. Eventually keys will cost 4 ref. I'll bet keys will become 4 ref in 5 days.

I'll say it again, we don't control prices. If we made keys 2.66 ref, keys would not go to 2.77 ref. Price goes up because supply falls and demand increases/stays the same.

FALSE.

Supply is NOT falling.

Demand is constant.

Price is going up because Sellers can sell for whatever they want and buyers will bend over backwards and pay.

WHY? Because we don't have any other currency to buy promos with. Keys affect ref inversely. Every time a key suggestion passes, ref looks less and less appealing.

FALSE. Prices go up because buyers have too much refined from their idle accounts. Too much ref + Too little amount of keys = Key Price Spike. It's as simple as that. I garuntee if Valve were to ban idle accounts/take actual action, keys would fall down immensely. Maybe even back to the good ol' days. The introduction of the Steam Market right after Halloweens unboxing craze didn't help either. Why buy keys from the Mann Co. Store when you can get them cheaper? Thus people without paypal access no longer buy keys from there, and keys are still being used to unbox. So, yes. Supply is falling, slowly but surely.

FALSE AGAIN.

There has always been more refined than keys. The idle account argument is based on speculation with ZERO proof.

I guarantee even without idle accounts, keys would be expensive. Why? Because SELLERS CAN GET AWAY WITH IT.

And no, there are more keys than there were at Christmas. The amount of keys has gone up. Look at stats.tf.

The Steam Market didn't affect anything either. Steam Market was implemented in mid-December, and keys were already rising at that point (they never went down after Halloween). Seller greed. Seller greed. Seller greed.

It's so plain to see, why must I repeat myself? If I have the gasoline to your car and you need it to get to the store, you will pay what I ask as long as you can afford it.

AND AGAIN SIR I SAY FALSE! :O

The idle account argument makes sense. When people have 100s of idle accounts and just trade when their inventories get full, of course there will be tons more refined going into the market, as well as hats, description tags, etc. And the Steam community was indeed there then, but the date is somewhat irrelevant at this point. And with the gasoline thing, people will start jogging, bicycling, riding by bus- they'll find alternatives, basically. Obviously we have no alternative besides the unstable market of refined, based around the price of keys. Key supply has gone up since Halloween, but for whatever reason, the demand stays the same/increased to some point, and here we are. 3.77 refined. I think I'm talking out of insomnia now, so some of this might not even make sense. I'm sorry for that, but let me say something, as long as key prices keep growing, the less people will start caring/the more people will buy from the store, when this happens, it will plummet. This will happen, it may take as long as TF2's inevitable "death". But, it will.

"Makes sense" does not equal proof. No one has shown that idle accounts made keys go up. Everyone uses it for a basis for raising the price, but no one has seen any direct effect other than the people crying wolf.

The date of the steam market is not "irrelevant." If keys were going up without the steam market, then why attributed the Steam Market with helping keys go up?

Everything you claim is speculation with no proof. All of that stuff is just a bunch of scapegoat crap. I give up. You win.

And as to the gasoline thing, those alternatives suck. Just like the alternative ways to buy promos and unusuals suck. I don't mean the real money alternative, I mean ref, craft hats, and other crap that promo/unusual sellers WON'T accept. Jogging and bikes won't get you where you need to go on time, just as ref and craft hats won't get you those promos.

That's why sellers can charge whatever they want for keys. Because people need them to get where they need to go on time. Eventually people won't be able to afford the keys and they will settle in price.

Could you provide us with one example besides Army of Nooch of someone farming literally hundreds of alts?

http://www.youtube.com/user/crateaday

There you go.

Most I can find via that link is 16 idling accounts. He may have more but I can't find any evidence of it.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/15177747.jpg :D

This is the only thing I thought of while I was reading your comment, along with the following FALSEs.

Upvote, sellers are already successful at 3.88 and sometimes even 4.

i saw 4ref even about a week ago (just 2 or 3 keys), dued to lazyness i think

Agreed and I am sure you will find successful buyers at 3.33 or even 3 ref due to lazyness.

Backpack should, in my opinion, reflect the bulk of trades, and those happen around 3.66-3.77 right now. If so many people on outpost offer 3.66 ref for keys in bulk, certainly 3.55 is a wrong lower bound.

http://puu.sh/24wu0

someone ban this long218 noob for trying to raise his bp value

Btw guys this guy is being sarcastic

They will only be sold at 3.77 after we officially decide that they are worth 3.66, every time the price gets bumped people want to sell them for more. Only a month ago I tried to sell some key for 3.66 and was told that it was the most ridiculous thing ever.

We don't control the prices. If we put keys at 2.66 they wouldn't go down to 2.77. Understand this.

we do infleunce them though ;)

im gonna upvote every key sug, i dont care about the price.. 4 ref=upvote, 5ref= UPvote 1key for 2 keys=upvote 1key for 1 bud=upvote, i dont need 2 see any kind of proof 2 upvote, let´s go upvote all key price,

in fact when one sugestion started with this phrase " Hey guys, I have over 200 keys and I want to increase my backpack value." HE NEED OUR HELP

How about you look into the proof instead of making pointless posts. The fact of the matter is that you can now sell the keys you own instantly for 3.66 refined to people on outpost. So lower bound must be 3.66.

And keys prices are usually a range because they should reflect the price at which you can easily buy a key (3.77) and the price at which you can easily sell a key (3.66).

lets go change the value of bill´s because a lot of peoples are buying bills for 7 keys and selling for 8 in outpost, i dont care about proofs based in outpost or in weird sites like tf2finance, .outpost is one amazing site for tf2 traders but NEVER can be one proof for prices sugestion. in fact one of the rules in outpost is "not claim about prices" so is like one free market in tf2 world..

why i never saw any proof based in trade servers???

sorry about my english

nice 2 everyone

If people were mass buying bill's hat for 9 keys, then yes by all means, update the price! The fact is that they aren't but they are mass buying keys at 3.66.

look at bill's: they have had a set value of 8 keys for god knows how long. Why is it that they have not inflated as well? why only keys?

because bill is based off keys... but unlike earbuds, less people want bill and there are more of them than earbuds.

keys aren't rising, ref is falling. If bills were priced in ref, they'd be inflating too.

Technically it is inflating. It's just you don't see a physical change in number of 8 keys. Keys used to be 2.66 ref at one point as I remember, and now they're avg. 3.66 supposedly. Just think with every key an extra refined is added if the key was valued 2.66.

give me 2 buyers at 3.77? and ill upvote, if not ill downvote, neutral for now

did you even read the proof ?

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8488954[/url] This is a bot that will buy for 3.77 ref

i saw that, i sold 5 keys for him c:

... THEN WHY DID YOU ASK FOR PROOF?

cuz i said 2 no one duh

well I aggrree that guy is smart imo,

"the high end today is impossible to tommorow!"

You set the price here higher.

People read the site and push the price on Outpost/wherever they are a scrap more.

Then some random dude collected the info and set the price here even higher.

And people will do the same thing...

Why can't we all just stop the argue between 3.55, 3.66 and 3.77..... What's the matter? Can't live a day without another scrap? If you need scrap then play TF2 on every Thursday and get 2 free weapons and scrapbank them!!

Besides, you want to increase your backpack value and simply come and change the price? What's wrong with you? It's like you wanna make money and go to the TV and announce that $100 notes now worth $1000.

Just please... stop it..

you do realize that the thing I post about my 200 keys is a joke and that I just want to reflect the key price on the market,right ?

I do realize that is a joke, but still, for a scrap and you come around and change the price, start the same old discussion all over again? Go check your sources again... 3.55 Ref for a key is definitely still there, as myself is a 3.55 Ref seller

and you are out of stock. if you and only a few people sell them at 3.55 then the supply won't be enough for the price to drop.

you should add me, i'll instantly buy every key you get at 3.55. And honestly, there are 3.88 ref buyers, Isn't it kinda dumb to sell at 3.55?

I just feast on their hate when this suggestion get passed

"...announce that $100 notes are now worth $1000..."

This doesn't make sense. Keys and ref have no natural exchange point, because they are different currencies. Therefore the price can easily change. The USD price of keys isn't going up, but the USD price of refined is going down.

better anolgy

anounce that gold is worth 10$ and ounce (atm worth around 1600-1700)

Well, I kinda hate the prices too, but you right!

Proof is perfect ( Just look at it, haters!) and range accurate.

Many people offer 3.77, but still possible to buy at 3.66.

Still, this site is supposed to show the prices of stuff.And this is what he does.

3.55 is gone ;_;.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8709543 Thought I'd just leave this here.

Why? There's no proof he's bought 28 keys for 3.55 ref each in the past 21 hours. Looking in his backpack I doubt he's ever had more than 5 keys pure in his backpack in his entire TF2 trading career. People fake bought/sold/current offer amounts all the time. His backpack is only worth $10: [url]http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198058659040[/url]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8708095 Thought I'd just leave this here.

People buy in the low end of the range and sell in the high end.

Give me a while, I'll come up with some counterproof that I didn't just pull from the first page of outpost.

Forgot I had a dental appointment. Anyway, I'll post more after I get back.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8461706

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8594713

Great proof, here's one for 2.66:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6949719

Let's just sets keys to 2.66, right?

/sarcasmn

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8529690

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8578011

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8690412

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8596895

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8401957

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8682660

I avoided ones without comments, although many of them had keys.

Week old trades, using backpack contents as proof for purchases?

Really helpful...

Would you like me to look for successful 3.66 buyers? Because they support the current range, and not the suggested one, because 3.66 is the average of the current range. I also didn't use backpack contents as proof of purchase, I stuck solely to comments. If you'd like, I can also look for 3.55/3.44 buyers who have keys in their inventory.

._.

I'm scared

me too son, me too. selling my burning flames team captain or 1 key, plzz i need teh keyzzz

The problem with this right here is the simple fact that not as many people can buy that high of a price for a relativly lower ranking item. People are not as willing to purchase as many of these, and with all the earbuds and shenanigans, it is not as popular, another cause being better scrapbanking. You do not need a key when you can get one from a bot for less.

Despite what people may say Mr. Long218, you are correct.

Haters can only downvote my suggestion once so they downvote on my comments. This comment will be hidden under 5 hours

Hah! Good estimation time sir.

So, 2 rec in 2 weeks, by this rate keys would be 34 ref at 2014

too cheap

Just leave keys alone and let it even out instead of spamming suggestions.

I was thinking of a comment to write, but I was too busy digging my own grave.

Back in my day, keys were 1.88. Theres no reason they should be 3.77, or even 3.55. People have been buying and selling more and more keys, wouldn't it make sense for the price to drop, not skyrocket?

Since your days people created thousands of accounts that gather more and more ref. That's one of the reasons why ref price is falling. The key price (in money) is pretty constant.~

Metal rolling in everyday, you can't do anything with it beside crafting hats.

Genuine request: Can someone sorta explain why keys keep going up? It's kind of to the point where it's rising because people want an extra scrap or two. It wouldn't be all bad if the price weren't changing daily.

They went up a bit around Halloween because lots of people were unboxing to get the new effects. Once keys went up a little bit people kept asking a little bit more than the suggested price.

People are finally starting to get it. Sellers are constantly pushing for another scrap. To fix this either: 1) Buyers need to go broke, or 2) Valve needs to create a new craft that uses more ref like the 2010 Juju.

+ metal kept increasing (also on alts) from drops, which makes metal less expensive, so key sellers can ask more and find buyers.

It's like limitless printing and handing out money. Everybody will have lots of money, so the price of everything is likely to rise.

Please don't make joke suggestions, it's just annoying.

How is this a joke suggestion?

He's completely correct...

They can't be bought for less than 3.66 (being able to buy a handful a day @3.55 doesn't count, Especially with bulk buyers around at 3.66)

And they can easily be sold at 3.77, i can barely hold onto keys for 10 minutes selling at 3.77. Sold around 100 over the weekend at 3.77, and bought them all for 3.66

They can, each of last 20 suggestions keep ignoring this.

Range 3.22-3.44 - OMG PPL SELLING FOR 3.44 EZY LETS MAKE 3.44 PURE

Range 3.44-3.77 - OMG PPL SELLING FOR 3.77 EZY LETS MAKE 3.77 PURE

When TFfinance rise for 0.01 everyone yelling GOD LOOK AT GRAPH, when TFfinance showing current price everyone yelling LOOK AT TF2OP, GRAPH NOT ACTUAL ANYMORE.

One side shit everytime.

Also, before last suggested price i could buy any amount of keys for 3.55, then suddenly bp.tf rise it, and i bought only 3 in 2 days.

WE NOT MANIPULATING WE RECORDING - keep repeating it like mantra.

I was never a huge stickler for tf2finance So you can keep that shit to yourself.

BUT, keys do easily sell for 3.77, and they're damn near impossible to get for 3.55.

You realize you don't have to use this site, right? There is nothing saying use if you do not use backpack.tf, then you cannot be a part of the trading community.

I'm waiting for this suggestion to pass

stop with this shit of raising the keys all the time.

I have a TF2OP up for buying at 3.66 and i get about 50 keys a day easy that way.

Keep them at 3.66 or you want us to go upto 10 ?.

"I have a TF2OP up for buying at 3.66 and i get about 50 keys a day easy that way." Prove it. a day old, 14 views. People dont even bother looking at trades paying 3.66

if you read my post i redo all my trades every 24 hours to keep up to date as i buy and sell bps that includes that post ^^

3.66 is in the suggested range.

And: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8730685

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/79884

Why is not a single one in your bp?

due to the fact i resell them very quickly. i always have 3-5 people poking me for keys.

What do you resell them for? Surely you don't spend hours each day swapping metal to keys to metal without some kind of payment? If you "always have 3-5 people poking [you] for keys" then what about the rest of your keys?

Looked at the description and then: http://i.imgur.com/O1zDJ.gif

For how much I hate the price of the keys going up a scrap every week or so, it's really inevitable at this point in the market that they will start dropping until people realize that keys are a currency and they are not supposed to keep rising.

I'm still going to have to upvote this though. :/

Time to sit back and watch the shower of downvoted comments. Popcorn anyone?

Anyways, I've been able to buy at 3.55 semi easily when I get metal. Staying neutral as comments on this are of no help to my position.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8488954[/url]

You're cool, bro. Still a'int changing my position.

It's just TOO easy to buy them at 3.66 refined. Really. Straight downvote :)

and you gonna post any proof ?

No I'm too lazy to get some. Just post a trade on outpost or search a little. People are selling at 3.66ref.

not helping at all.

The suggestion showed that it's almost impossible to buy at 3.55, 3.66 is still in the range.~

I don't even care about key to ref values anymore, just trade metal and keys seperately and all the problems disappear.

*looks at proof* hmmm.....I wonder what tf2finance says *looks at tf2finance*.....Yay.

Downvote....

And why did you downvote? Please explain.

Even this comment is disliked....Guys don't abuse the system...~

if you want a better proof of downvote abuse, look at my comments. they can downvote my suggestion once but they do that on all of my comments :3

I stopped trading with metal because the price isn't stable. Anyway, upvote. Good proof.

My reaction - http://forgif.me/142

Haha, dislikes for no reason! :D

Deal with it.

I know this comment will be buried, but I can still buy keys for 3.55 on servers. Screenshots:

http://i.imgur.com/VbqJ44c.png (3.55)

http://i.imgur.com/jXvtCxP.png (3.55)

http://i.imgur.com/pWViJj5.png (3.55)

http://i.imgur.com/ngZqSAV.png (3.55)

http://i.imgur.com/hSFhG5X.png (3.60)

These were all a week ago?!

4 days isn't quite a week, but I see your point.

All old except the 3.60 one. So this is the counterproof of 1 key....not much.^^

I would've preferred a 3.66 flat price, since there are a lot of buyers and sellers at 3.66.

The Pitt has shown disdain for your lack of flat rate pricing.

Excepts its extremely easy to sell for 3.77 (a lot easier than buying at 3.66, which is why i cant keep keys in stock @3.77

"Hey guys, i want to increae my bp value"

In other terms :

"Howdy, I want to get more metalz for my keys. Score this up."

I rarely trade in metal unless i really want a hat or cheap item. So until I feel that keys are in a stable range, I'll just trade in keys. I wish it didn't have to rise so much so quickly. RIP Metal

Repeat

CurrentKeyValue = CurrentKeyValue + 0.11

Delay 1 week

Until Jesus=black;

Why week, already prove 2 days enough.

I've bought mutliple in the past few days for 3.55 on trade servers easily, outpost isn't everything.

Downvote.

Then post some screenshots.

Of my trade history you mean?

Ain't nobody got time for that, but seriously getting them at 3.55 on servers isn't that hard.

I have no doubt you can get them at 3.55 on trade servers but most of the trade occurred on outpost.

How many and how long ago?

yesterday I bought 2, the guy had more for sale (9 total I think) but I had to loan metal to a friend.

I also saw another guy selling some (not sure how many) at 3.55 a pop, but again I was out of metal.

On the other hand, I have seen people sell keys at 3.66&3.77, so they definitely are not going down

Just a range.

Thank you for the input.^^

As much as this guy seems like a cheapass by his first sentence, I can't say no to his reasoning. Well played

if you didn't know

I was joking.

Haha yeah, I did ;) Also, it looks like some prick's going around -1'ing all your posts

I'll upvote this if you can explain how a range of 3.66 - 3.77 makes sense with an average of 3.65. Because thats what the finance average currently is.

scrap.tf is still buying plenty at 3.55, and the only proof you've got is from one site. As nice as Outpost is, you should know better than to suggest a raise in the price of keys using it as your only proof.

i dont really care nor trust tf2finance, Also scrap.tf is still buying plenty at 3.55? they are sold out at 3.66. Backpack.tf reflects current prices. 3.66-3.77 makes sense, because their are people willing buy for that amount. And what other sites can you use to get proof from? barely anyone uses tf2bazaar, or tf2tp. And if you use a trade server, most of the time, there is no proof.

I don't see how being sold out at 3.66 affects how many they buy at 3.55. You know they track how many they buy each day, right? IIRC yesturday (or possibly Sunday, I might've forgotten to check yesturday) it went over 300 bought at 3.55. And right now they've bought 175 at 3.55 today.

Thats ~10 Keys per hour today at 3.55. All going to one place.

and there are 1000 keys per hour all selling at 3.66+ on outpost

Did you count that yourself, sir?

Also, that is part of the current range, so its pretty irrelevant. In fact its the middle of the current range, so there should be more 3.66 trades than 3.55 and 3.77 trades. I'm just here to show that people do in fact sell for 3.55.

If you want this suggestion to pass, you should try proving that they DON'T sell for 3.55, not further prove the current range.

I remember reading this somewhere, but I'll just retype it.

This hype of keys rising started around Halloween, when apparently "keys were in demand" since the new Unusual Effects came out and they were highly desired. Around that time there were 395,000 keys according to stats.tf. Keys went from 2.55-2.66 to 2.8-3.1. Now since the halloween event is over, keys haven't dramatically risen or dropped in demand, but it did drop significantly. Today 2/19/13 http://puu.sh/25hKS 450,000+ keys are in circulation and the demand still did not rise, but for some apparent reason every week the key prices in metal go up. Some say it's because metal isn't being used for crafting...etc or because metal horder(idlers) are causing a dramatic change in the number of metal. The major problem and fear of a crash is inevitable because Key prices in metal have gone up but item prices in metal has not adjusted/changed. Soon keys will be so undesired because of so-called "inflation" keys could no longer be a stable and affordable item to be trustworthy enough to use as currency.

Like I stated above that this hype started around Halloween, when Keys were actually in demand. People wanted more metal for their keys because item prices remained the same and they could get a few couple extra scraps for whatever they wanted to buy. People predicted that keys would go back down because demand was going to drop. I.E A TEAM SPIRIT PAINT WAS 1 KEY WHICH WAS 3 REF. NOW A KEY IS WORTH MORE THAN THAT AND YOU COULD BUY A TEAM SPIRIT AND GET A COUPLE SCRAPS BACK. When items soon be fixated to accustom key prices that is when your crash will happen, since keys will be seen as a unaffordable with those with metal, and those who sell items would not sell (let's say 4 TEAM SPIRITS) for a 1 key because it's expensive + unreliable. Keys are our main source of currency when everything (Unusuals,hats,Promos, etc.) get fixated to the key price then no one would no longer want keys.

Hate and Flame is appreciated I would like to expand my knowledge and see others feedback on my views.

keys will always be a wanted item and a lot of people still gonna want to buy them.

Not when people like you open your mouth.

says the guy who called other people jew and faggot.

Only you, and am I wrong?

yes you are.

>Quicksell

>Trader

>If sees a good deal will automatically rip-off unsuspecting person

lol, and just how does that even relate to a key suggestion.

and jews are not being famous for their "sharking ability"

please stop being ignorant and stubborn.

Because you want to make the pixels make you feel richer.

How long ago was this open..?

Thanks for reminding me about it.

Oh yeah 1 week ago. Mhm.

Oh whoa Internet Tough Guy. And yeah I don't take trading seriously so I'll do you a favor and say what you want to hear. You're right, you're the smartest, everyone should respect you and give you everything you want.

Let's keep things civil and on topic, gentlemen.

"automatically rip-off"

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7765080

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Nice payment of 4 keys on a 9 keys item bro. Fucking hypocrite.

http://i.imgur.com/piiDJV5.png

Changing the price so you won't look like a piece of shit.

btw if you want I can sell you my s.f.sandvich for 9 keys

lmfao, thanks for reminding me about it ? You hid comments on that trade that mean you know it exist.

oh yea 1 week ago s.f. sandvich is 10+ keys.

you just keep digging yourself a hole

"Oh whoa Internet Tough Guy. And yeah I don't take trading seriously so I'll do you a favor and say what you want to hear. You're right, you're the smartest, everyone should respect you and give you everything you want. "

Lmfao, fucking liar got caught redhanded and still trying to trash talk me

"The major problem and fear of a crash is inevitable because Key prices in metal have gone up but item prices in metal has not adjusted/changed"

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Where have you been?

Funny thing about this argument.

He's a "she".

Rain of down-votes time.

This suggestion has more posts then the number of keys you have. ha :D

unless the number of comments is 267 then no :D

277 comments >.>

perhaps someone here will be interested in a fairly new (started 2 months ago) trader's opinion?

all this proof from outpost leads to a circular result as has been noted several times in this suggestion's comments. i do not know anyone anymore who does not use backpack.tf as their *only* price reference during a trade. if they don't then they're probably getting ripped off by a shark.

so any price that is set by backpack.tf will instantly be regarded as the proper baseline. the sellers will bump try to sell for a little more and the buyers will feel like a winner when they buy at the low range.

setting the price to 3.66 at the lower end means that more buyers will feel like they didn't get completely ripped off at 3.77 which will immediately justify another bump to 3.77-3.88.

you guys who huddle here need to realize that you are indeed controlling the prices in the economy and the only checks and balances are the voting procedure here which is invariably justified by proof provided primarily from one source, that source being one where traders use you as a reference…

it truly makes the head spin.

in addition, a problem i have with this theory of idling accounts adding too much metal into the economy is mainly that of proof. for all the screaming and yelling about proof in regular trading (provided almost exclusively with links to outpost trades) how come no one is asking for actual proof of this supposed destabilizing idling phenomenon? i find it hard to believe that there are so many idling accounts as to send the economy refined value into a hole.

the average tf2 player gains about 2.66 refined per month *if and only if* they actually play the game for 10+ hours a week. and it is my opinion that the majority of tf2 players don't trade, don't even know about trading at the levels needed to have an effect and thus their metal never ends up making a dent.

i'm certain that if backpack.tf decided, as a voting majority, to downvote key price hikes for a month then the key prices would stabilize.

as a real world equivalent i would like to point out that in the United States the main control the US fed has over inflation is the interest rate which is basically a way to price the value of lending money. with this singular variable many 1st world, progressive governments have been able to keep inflation under control during recessions and periods of growth alike.

perhaps voting agains key price hikes is backpack.tf's equivalent of keeping inflation under control right now while there's a bit of a runaway effect.

the proof of this phenomenon of self fulfilling prophecy based on backpack.tf prices is simple to see by just looking at the history of accepted suggestions.

15 days ago: 3.44 low, 3.66 high.

3 days later due to everyone bumping their sales by a scrap the lower bound is raised to 3.55. a week later the upper bound is bumped to 3.77. and now we're here just 5 days later ready to bump the lower again?

one thing that doesn't make sense about the value of metal plunging: if that is the case, how come the price of items non-key items are not as volatile?

Extracting part of your argument:

"so any price that is set by backpack.tf will instantly be regarded as the proper baseline. the sellers will bump try to sell for a little more and the buyers will feel like a winner when they buy at the low range."

If that were true, then items would only rise and never have the ability to fall.

"as a real world equivalent i would like to point out that in the United States the main control the US fed has over inflation is the interest rate which is basically a way to price the value of lending money. with this singular variable many 1st world, progressive governments have been able to keep inflation under control during recessions and periods of growth alike."

Price of gasoline in the 70's soared due to OPEC trying to see how far they could affect the price of their product. Due to this the U.S. Government put a cap on the price of gasoline causing massive amounts of scarcity for gasoline which not only affected people's leisurely trips in the car, but also industries who needed to transport products to market, or other uses for gasoline in an economy as their are many. Some people today now wish the government would do the same since we are experiencing rising gas prices, yet the government will not permit it due the toll it took on our nation.

How this relates to the topic at hand: the money that people earn was spent on gasoline. The price of gasoline went up and people complained because the amount that filled up their whole tank could now only fill up half. The government felt that by imposing a price ceiling, then the price would stop rising and therefore stabilize. While you can say the prices "stabilized" they did not in fact do any good for the economy because the equilibrium point for the gasoline was higher than the price meaning demand was higher than supply causing long lines of people willing to buy gas at almost any price it was set at.

you said: "If that were true, then items would only rise and never have the ability to fall."

but it *is* true. for keys. the reason why it is not true for other items is because of fashion trends. hats and miscs are *cosmetic* items and as such their perceived value changes purely on their perceived appeal as they have no other purpose. keys, on the other hand, have a purpose both real: opening crates, and tf2 community created: as a currency - it will never go down without concerted effort to push it down, or a very cheap source of more as it's only price control is supply/demand and the conversion ratio that is getting out of control here, at bp.tf...

the 70's oil crisis comparison is interesting but not really analogous. the problem in the 70s started because there was in fact a supply problem (however manipulated). this is not a problem in the tf economy as everyone has been pointing out. there are plenty of keys being injected into the economy.

1) You said that any price set on backpack.tf is the baseline for sellers and that buyers feel lucky when they are able to buy for the low-end amount.

2) Fine, you want a different example? The price of gold vs. the price of the U.S. dollar. People make money based in U.S. dollars, correct? Therefore let us say that gold is "keys" and that the U.S. dollar is "refined metal" since you "work" for it in order to buy items. The price of the U.S. dollar, just like the price of refined metal is based solely on the principle of trust that at some point this payment can be exchanged in order to purchase something else for the same value. Now since the early 1900's the price of gold relative to the price of U.S. dollars has risen dramatically. Yet gold can still be mined everyday, so what is causing this increase in gold? [url]http://pricedingold.com/us-dollar/[/url]

1. now you're just nitpicking - you know very well i was talking about keys. cosmetic items and keys are very different beings

2. gold is not keys because gold is not a currency anymore. no one buys anything using gold (at least not in a significant way) - it is more like a stock/investment, the end product of a purchase. keys are not an investment intermediary, they're the actual currency.

Oh man this is getting good!

I really am glad i cashed out of tf2 prior to this....mess. However i do enjoy seeing these reach ridiculous prices. Anyone think of it this way?

old price: 2.66 = 2 ref 2 rec

1 ref- 18 weapons

1 rec - 6

= 24 weapons x 2 = 48 weapons.

This requires several weeks of timed drops. Then f2p's finally get their chance at a key. However, with todays new prices, look at what this:

2.66= 48 weapons

3.66 = 66 weapons

Not only does this make it even harder for New players to join in on the fun but it also hurts high end metal farmers. I know a man who gets 10 keys at 2.66 using 32 accounts. 10 keys a week at 2.66 each.

The rich arent behind these prices. They are probably even trying to lower it.

i actually think that the 2.66 per key price would be ideal - i.e. if you play tf2 for a month and play 10 hours per week and you get the equivalent of 1 key.

maybe you'll use it to unbox something and not feel like an idiot that you would at today's key prices...

i know, never gonna happen, but it would actually make sense to have a solid baseline like this. because the only real world influence on prices would be of a commodity that everyone has to spend: time.

I too, think 2.66 was a very good price as it stayed for a very long time apparently but if I was to put up 2.66 right now. All my keys would be gone in less than 2 days.

*less than 2 minutes.

no one trade that fast. and with the ridiculous amount of key trades I don't think I will be on the first page for more than 30 seconds.

of course. that's not the point. but stopping the inflation where it's at now is good for everyone. there are other items to trade that will change in price simply due to popularity and fashion trends causing ebbs and flows of demand. measuring that popularity would be the trader's weapon - instead of voting on keys on backpack.tf... and it would require talent, not just wealth.

Bp.tf is basically the bible for traders, they might have outpost up and are selling key for current bp.tf price and then if bp.tf raises of course they are going to raise it too, its just going to keep going in a ridiculous circle, and also my opinion you should not allow people with more than a few number of keys to make these suggestions, he has like 200+ thats ridiculous amount but at the same time hes trying to increase the value of his keys like he said in his proof, admins please don't just accept it because you found a little proof, there were many suggestions on keys that people downvoted to hell because they felt its not right but it was STILL accpeted please start to base KEY suggestions off what people think are right and wrong when only 50 people agree and 600 people disagree then that means the suggestion isn't in favor of others people here are smart too whats the point of people voting on keys if you can just find a little proof and then accept it please allow OTHER voters to vote and disagree or to agree. That is all gentlemen.

a suggestion doesn't get pass base on people opinion

it get passed by proof.

there are a ton of suggestions that got accepted with negative vote.

and if you still haven't know it yet, I was joking about increasing my backpack.

yeah if voters think the proof is sufficient enough for it to get passed, whats the point of thousands of voters voting and voicing their opinions when a admin just simply accepts the suggestion without even asking others about the proof he found. Of course there are tons of suggestions that get accepted and those are key suggestions.

Do you know that a lot of voters on here don't give a rat ass about proof and just want keys to stop increasing ?

So... the only reason you want to raise the price is to increase your backpack value? Because that's what you said. What about everyone else, who thinks keys are going up faster than gas? keep them at 3.55, maybe even lower them!

Some of you take this game a bit too seriously.

like you ?

why don't you go have fun with your laugh mittens instead of a boring crate.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8755827

Well, I wasnt necessarily talking about you, I was talking about some of these commenters who have Harvard level education and can prove that 3.66 could indeed round down to 3.55 or even 3.44, but, sure, I'll have fun. :O

lol, who here has a Harvard level education? I'm a junior in high school taking IB Economics SL. I also happen to be the #7 Top Contributor along with being the #1 Most Accurate for the past month.

To be honest, that's more than most people here.

So, you're the only one commenting here?

Tell me who here is boasting a Harvard education also go back to unsuccessfully selling your mittens for double their value as Long said.

No one here has a Harvard education, dumbass. I was saying that a lot of the people commenting spending a lot more time researching things to raise and lower the prices of keys than they should have.

Successful traders at 3.77+

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8441254

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8742298

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8752163 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8593116

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8705560

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8756216

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8456351

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8566347

Buyers' trades at 3.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8761324

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8739989