Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 3.77–3.88 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

320 votes up

486 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed Tue, 26 Feb 13 18:41:38 +0000 by A Distinctive Lack of Vincent.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

I put everything in one comment. I'm not comment anymore.

Also wanna say some stuff:

1. Keys can be bought at trade servers at less than this price but there are not many people trade in servers and it is painful.

2. I manipulate price for bp's value ? If the price become $1.42 what the hell do I get when everybody on SOP sell keys at $1.35

3. I sold all my earbuds before earmax made a suggestion. I sold all of my buds at 27. http://i.imgur.com/eRC103f.png

4. If you bought keys at 3.66, post proof, don't just downvote me when I ask you where are your proofs.

5. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8877185 I made a trade at the current range of 3.77 and 9 people want to buy it under 5 minutes. Why shouldn't 3.77 be the lower end as it is the price where everyone is willing to pay and 3.88 at the higher end where people that need keys quickly can get it with ease.

6. I owned 600 keys doesn't mean a single thing. If now I sell all my keys and make this suggestion, will you upvote me ?

7. http://puu.sh/28fps on February 25 most are average at 3.77 while there are many manage to sell at 3.88 or above.

8. Suggestion got closed by Brad with only 1 reporting link won't stop me from making this suggestion again

9. Here is the proof. I will only reply if you guys stop downvoting me without reason given and is just mad because I am reporting the correct price.

Successful sellers at 3.77 and above:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8841226

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7950662

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857061 0 in stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8647697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857778 this gone 1 second

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8705614

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8690262 out of stock at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8858457 ya I bought this cuz it is the only trade at 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8834080

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8625592

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8858403

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8564440

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8686257

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857764

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8855536

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8835140

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8849621

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8823812

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8517810

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857764

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8749335

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8865226 sold out

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8865816 I finally bought it at 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8863348 Instant add. like 3 seconds.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8862384 3.77. 4 adds in a timespan of 1 minute

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8859216

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8859167

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857255

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8858457

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8865392

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8836346

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8798770 selling at 3.88. Too much add lol

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8826874

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8777366

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8876680 SOLD 20 FOR 3.77 in 30 seconds before I could trade. Jesus

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8715464 4 ref each or a bit less. stil ton of adds.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8876483

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8815214 4 ref. sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8870773 out of stock at 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8843639 3.88 out of stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8862427 out of stock at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8777274 sold all at 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8870373 3.88 added

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857764 3.88. stock zero

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8860787

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8838856 sold 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8841226 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8705614 sold out at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8700978 out of stock at 3.88. Have no stock paying 3.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6962413 sold at 3.77, 3.88, 4.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8143020 sold out at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857061 3.77+wep. Sold out

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8747174 sold 14 at 4 ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8830933 offer at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857764 out of stock 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8882081 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8836304 sold 10 at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8868605 out of stock at 3.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8874953 3.88 out of stock.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8849861 sold a few at 3.88.

Buyers' trades at 3.66+

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8858905 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8831330 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8809433 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8823663 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8841936 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8852218 3.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8844080

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857434

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8845720

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8771648

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8855227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8849575

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8802151

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8611674

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8828779

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8842587

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8724908

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8868785

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8852218

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8873802

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8867763

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8869209

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8876090

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8858720

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8843987

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8833643

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8844726

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8876522

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8794963

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8861059 My trade buying at 3.77. Bought one from a guy who saw this trade.

And you guys proved to me once again to never comment.

Leave the damn key prices alone already! Your only adding to the awful cycle of key prices being raised to sellers on outpost sell for more, resulting in another suggestion to raise prices.

Remember when it was 2.33 those were the days I say let's bring them back

Every single reason on your list of explanations is the exact reason why your comments are downvoted.

long218 just wants to increase the value of his backpack, people are too stupid to realize

Apparently the caution tag he earned isn't enough for him, he is shooting for full scammer tag

He has a caution tag because he was banned from Reddit on r/tf2trade. A reason which has nothing to do with scamming.

Please actually know what words mean before you parrot them. The caution tag means next to nothing.

So him trading with a known scammer had nothing to do with it?

Proof of this? I have a scammer on my friends list, why is he a scammer? Because his dad did a charge back on the steam games because he didn't know where they came from. Just because he traded with someone who had a scammer tag, doesn't make him a scammer.

lol^ he's not a scammer he got banned from reddit and got a little tag that means almost nothing

@Randinie Grey Beard

A ban from /r/tf2trade is a serious thing. I know several of the admins, and they're very nice people, and tend to be forgiving of people, giving them multiple chances. Long218 made 20+ alts to try and get around his ban: Sounds like a clean history still?

so +20 alt accounts, is more+20 positive votes here ^^

He deserves a scammer tag because he is trying to suggest a new price which more accurately reflects the market???

Well then...

>accurately

>recording

Not this shit again.

I have to agree with everyone else. Give it a break for now, the last price got accept yesterday. Also, a lot of people do trade in servers. You can't just ignore them because Outpost is a popular option. TF2 Finances goes up and down all the time, giving us good enough information on what the range should be and last night it dipped below 3.77 making your previous prices suggestion of 3.66-3.88 accurate. Just stop and wait a bit.

I really think we need to place some 5 day cool down period before suggesting another key price because that's usually when it changes.

It's not like there was a reason your previous suggestion for the same price was closed five hours ago.. Oh wait. There was.

Dear God give it a rest already, you are losing all your creditability on this site.

He had some to begin with?

i have a much better idea. suggest the price of 3.77 with no range. it is the range that is part of the problem. you give a range and the outpost people will sell at the high end of the range. this then gets used to set the LOW end of the next suggestion.

i will even upvote a non-range 3.88 price. but not 3.88-4....

also, regarding #6 on your bullet list: if you sell all your keys for refined, yes, i will upvote this suggestion immediately. please post proof :)

I doubt It would do much good, because greedy outpost traders will always try to get a little extra. I like the compromise idea though. Think about that Long

upvote, i dont no why everybody flame. The comunity makes the price. was not hard.

easy for 3.77

http://www10.pic-upload.de/26.02.13/7pstw77i36k5.jpg

based on outpost which is based on backpack which is based on outpost which is based on backpack ad naeuseum

Yes, Because outpost is the TF2 community as a whole.

TF2 outpost Raising the price of keys since 2012.

Some of those links were still people buying at 3.66. This shows that people are still willing to sell their keys at 3.66, so the range should still include 3.66.

This makes the current range of 3.66-3.88 fine.

It's a little bit childish. Justz because you dont want the price you downote it. At any other suggestion most traders say "here no space for opinion's, you need good proof for backpack.tf".

Yes, he have a lot of proof, no opinion. It's just your opinion that the key price is to high but this is not how backpack.tf works.

And if this get not accepted just because yu dont want it, we have to close every other suggestion with a price we dont want.

good proof = accepted (nothing else, no opinion, flame or w/e)

get it, and hf with disliken my comment, face.

WTF! Are you spam suggesting now until your range is correct? Using blank lines does not make your proof any better, btw. Is that exactly the same proof as last time? You are a real pita!

LONG! NO! BAD DOG. YOUR OTHER SUGGESTION JUST GOT SHOT DOWN LIKE an hour ago ::(

Long, you gotta give it time. Let somebody else take the flak for it, or wait a day or something. Its too soon ;__;

he doesnt care, he just wants his backpack to be worth more

Because $17 will make all the difference in the world....

Think things through before making stupid accusations...

It actually does to some people. Not all of us have backpacks over $300.

Yes....but the point is, $17 to someone whos worth around $2000 means absolutley nothing (and is therefore an invalid argument).

Also, $300 is virtually nothing...

Free money is free money.

It's like that outpost key seller selling his keys for 1 scrap more when "it's nothing"

>300 is virtually nothing

People could pay bills with that.

Give up already.

It looks like you just wanna get keys up to 4 ref already, seeing those past suggestions include you and rising prices in less than a week.

Buyer: 3,66:

1. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7007247 [No buyer]

2. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8856164 [No buyer]

3. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8846002 [No buyer]

4. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8879436 [No buyer]

5. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8748033 [No buyer]

6. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8878913 [No buyer]

Buyer 3,77:

1. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8890073

2. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8846107

3. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8889567

4. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8887826

5. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8827574

6. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8885271

Seller 3,88:

1. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8890074

2. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8856791

3. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8890141 [3,885]

4. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8857764

5. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8887790

6. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8890074

Nice proof :D

People dislike links of proof now? Here's a link full of proof. (Expecting dislikes) http://backpack.tf/vote/id/512bdd0fba2536f36500000c#512c690fba2536a04b000001_row

You made this suggestion yesterday.

IT FAILED.

YOU CAN'T RAISE KEY PRICES WITH 600 IN YOUR INVENTORY

The number of Keys in his backpack has nothing to do with the suggestion, you just don't have any arguments anymore.

Wrong... the amount of keys in his backpack has EVERYTHING to do with this suggestion, as it did the last three times he made a suggestion to raise prices

Funny how all the kids dislike every fucking comment which speaks for Long218 suggestion.

Just stop buying Keys for metal if you want it to cool down. Your own mistake.

Legitimate question: what does he have to gain from raising the metal:key conversion rate? Sure he can get more metal, but he will still have 600 keys worth of metal. He gains no more purchasing power for any items priced in keys

Long's backpack (1862$) will be worth 17$ more.

"Hurr durr, you are only doing this to increase the value of ya' BP!!!1"

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just explained why most kids whine about the number of Keys in Long's backpack.

Can't tell if you're joking or not. You think Long made this suggestion to artificially increase the bp.tf value of his backpack by 0.9%? In reality, this conversion doesn't change the $USD price of keys at all.

No, I just explained why everybody is whining about the ~600 Keys in his BP.

confused you for the guy I responded to, my mistake

What the fuck is wrong with the kids today? I'm only supporting Long218 and all my comments get downvoted for no reason.

My arguement is this. Listen closely. Outpost is NOT a source for pricing. The people there will always price whatever they want to sell for the maximum price suggested by backpack.tf. When the price for a key was 3.66-3.77, nobody asked for anything but that. Now that it's 3.66-3.88, everybody wants the 3.77 or the 3.88. If we raise the price more at this rate (Long has raised the price successfuly twice this week, and has been putting more and more keys in his inventory each time), people will just keep asking the max price reccomended. If it goes to 3.77-3.88 people would start asking for 4 ref

Stop this cicle then, it's not my problem, I didn't start this hype.

how did 25 people dislike this comment? seriously kids?

Just curious but would you care if he had 22 buds instead?

he sold his buds because they are going to go down in value and keys are going up

That doesn't matter. Everything valued in keys would go up in value. Buds, Unusuals, S.F. weps, certain vintages.

I was asking if the big 595 next to his name would change his opinion or not. If he's an idiot he would not care as much.

naw unuasals go down in price, very VERY flawed system but last time the key suggestion was accepted the Burning TC went down 7 buds, w/o a suggestion :<

ANYTHING THAT IS VALUED IN KEYS IS GOING TO GO UP BECAUSE OF THIS WHY DON'T YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND???

That's...that's not how it works.

The value of keys is not going up. The value of metal is going down. Things valued in Refined is going to go down. Not things valued in keys are going up.

>Comment about how he has 595 keys

OMG UR JUST TRYING TO RAISE PRICE XDD NOOB PLS DOWNVOTE

Well, he does have about 50 or so lines of proof..... >_>

pls downvote shud b 2.66 !!!11!!! :DDD

Seriously, fuck yourself, I am tired of this shit

You should try doing something about it yourself instead of just telling him to go fuck himself. That accomplishes nothing. Just being childish if anything.

If you have a solution to the key price, please share. By all means.

And you are part of the reason why key prices are the way they are now. This suggestion was already turned down yesterday, why would he be worth being taken seriously now?

Do you have any proof he is wrong?

And how am I part of the reason key prices are high? I haven't touched the game since late December. The reason they are so high is because of ref falling in value. Refined is always entering the game and never leaving. That is why prices are so high.

For trying to back up a suggestion that was already turned down within the same day or day before, pretty sad that you fail to see that as how you would be contributing.

Key prices change incredibly fast. If he has proof to back it up, it should change.

I also never said I agreed with this price suggestion, just that if there is proof it should change. Stop putting words in my mouth.

"Refined is always entering the game and never leaving"

wrong. many many people are crafting. most of the time this is a loss game just like unboxing a crate.

No one uses 3 ref to craft when they can use 2.66 to craft in hats.

It doesn't leave.

lol, you think people do the math?

this is yet another of the problems with the trader community. you assume everyone actually cares about the value of their backpack and that something like 3 ref vs. 2.66 ref actually makes a difference to them.

i am going to make a very uneducated guess that only 10% of the tf2 community engages in actual trading and only 10% of that 10% know what the hell they are doing...

You're right, that was a very uneducated guess. It is way more than 10% of the population.

And yes people do use math. Why the hell do you think they're called craft hats? Because people use them for crafting. I have yet to meet someone who used metal for crafting and wasn't f2p.

your logic is also broken in another way. does opening crates create value? no, right? the vast vast majority of uncrates are worth a lot less than a key.

it's much smarter to trade using keys right? so keys are also entering the game and never leaving?

approaching 500,000: http://stats.tf/item/5021/Mann_Co._Supply_Crate_Key

Your logic is broken in the fact that people unbox to get unusuals.

Keys are leaving and coming in at a pretty high rate. Of course you lose money when you open crates, if you didn't, everyone would open them because you either make a shit ton from getting an unusual, or you make money just from opening the crate itself.

for some reason i can't comment on your two responses (too many sub responses?)

so i'll answer here:

"You're right, that was a very uneducated guess. It is way more than 10% of the population. "

this is total conjecture tho, you have to admit. i will tell you what i base my totally uneducated guess on and then you tell me about yours.

first off, i meet players all the time on the less popular servers and especially in mvm who don't have any cosmetic items at all and ask how i got mine. second, i have several friends who actually play tf2 just to play tf2 and have never traded. the only cosmetic items they have are ones they crafted (from refined, mind you, they don't know or care about the value of "craft hats" - they just like turning metal into stuff)

"Your logic is broken in the fact that people unbox to get unusuals."

you do realize that i was being facetious when i said people don't use keys to uncrate. of course they do. i made that statement because it's analogous to you saying that refined is not used to craft.

i got my first (and only) unusual by trading for it. that's the much better net positive way to acquire one given the odds.

and yet despite all this supposed uncrating the number of keys in the wild is going up. up almost 31% since that dreaded halloween 2012 when all hell supposedly broke loose.

in fact, looking at stats.tf now:

refined: 1.2M (http://stats.tf/item/5002/Refined_Metal)

keys: 465K (http://stats.tf/item/5021/Mann_Co._Supply_Crate_Key)

this is a ratio of ~2.6 refined to a key currently in the market.

lets check in next week and see what that looks like. if the ratio stays the same, will everyone agree that the price of keys should stop going up?

I fail to understand why so many people dislike your comments and instead like someone's comments who uses foul language, it's simple and true, why are there so many butthurt kids around that fail to understand the problem? -.-

Says the person with 0 keys in their bp?

The mods have said that, if he believes this is the right price, he's allowed to suggest it.

Its you again gtfo. Cant you learn when prices get declined?

At least he is making better suggestions than your key suggestions. You are complaining about him to be on the bandwagon. You tried to make the price 4 ref you hypocrite. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/511bdb3fba2536e51c000001

Please don't tell him to gtfo when you are much worse.

Good find simon, more hypocrite: http://puu.sh/28vOX and the guy actually went back to being a lowballer. wow.

That one was not serious, but satire..

> there are not many people trade in servers

Oh boy

long is so wrong on that! there are so many trade servers with people selling and buying keys. and how does he expect us to get proof from trade servers anyway?!

Well, you could take a screenshot of your trade history.

who actually does that though, dont get me wrong, thats a good idea, but everyones been on a trading server before and know that keys do sell on them for decent prices

This is dedication at it's finest, I agree with the price, you can't argue any points about Long, you have to argue about the actual price ;_;

they can always just dislike every comment that disagrees with them

i know, my own comment has 2 dislikes already xD

It was only a matter of time.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

Currently at 3.78, doesn't justify the price increase yet.

Would be nice to make the suggestion at the time it's actually at the average you're trying to pass though. Otherwise it just seems like you're trying to gather hate.

It is only at 3.78 on tf2finance: http://tf2finance.com/keys/

Even though you have an impressive 101 links of proof, it doesn't shine light on the 400 key to ref trades on TF2Outpost, all of which atleast were active 2 days ago.

this sucks, give a few weeks for make other key suggestion, maybe can be like earbuds, increased 27 - 28, no other suggestion and BAM, price dropping.

lets do it with keys.

Just saying Long you made the same suggestion yesterday. It failed. Give it some time and try again when people are more open to change again.

okay, because outpost is the source of all knowledge and only the most fair trades. right? I'm pretty sure they would set their prices at 10 ref for their keys if they knew you would bump the price here to match it

http://puu.sh/28n6R

>implying this suggestion is going to pass

why don't you post the whole chat:

http://i.imgur.com/xyPR43m.png

You break your own rules :<

Why are 1-2 sentences on 5 different lines of chat? C'mon man..you spam up chats doing that.

Liked so everyone can see

Upvoted.

Bawh dislikes!

*Like* :3

Also lots of keys are sold to scrap.tf for 3.66 daily

[url]http://scrap.tf/stats[/url]

60, that not a lot especially when there are over ten thousands keys being trade on outpost everyday.

I'm just saying the fact that it is possible to trade at 3.66 means that it should be included in the suggested price. I posted a trade on outpost for 3.66 just a minute ago to see how possible it was and got added within 5 minutes. Probably pretty unlikely but still it its possible.

http://imgur.com/k7uBhKH

Well u don't join TF2 from halloween i see your keys not desapper well why u speak ? u check only for profit? tf2 is a game not a bank ...

if u want do profit is your problem go to try rip off someone else

RIGHT KEY PRICE IS 3.33 .3.55

and is DAMM high !! but i can undestand refined is go bit down ..

THE PRICE MUST BE A FAIR PRICE FOR ALL NOT ONLY FOR U

BTW I DON'T SELL KEYS FOR METAL OR METAL FOR KEYS

but u try to rip off the TF2 Economy for your interested profit ...

No, the TF2 Trading community is ripping itself off by still buying Keys for higher and higher prices and not letting the of pricebumps die.

Btw. just keep disliking the comments of experienced traders who at least understand this. This goes to all.

Volpiii.

I respect you bro. I myself am an experienced trader and you gotta understand we can't let this through bro.

He's trying insanely hard to put this price up, he's desperate. If your experienced you would have been here on the days when keys were 2.33 and were fairly distributed. 3.88 Is retardely high, seriously.

Again, as an experienced trader, this is stupid, keys should NOT be 3.77 - 3.88!

THIS right here proves his intentions. http://puu.sh/28n6R

I respect your Volpiii, but I'm gonna to have to not agree with you on this one.

(With this picture, we can prove he has a motive!)

Wright: "TAKE THAT! See this picture? This is why he is bumping the prices!"

Judge: "Yes Yes. You do have a point there Wright, anything to say Edgeworth?"

Edgeworth: "OBJECTION! ... .... .............. I don't... .know..."

Judge: "Well this case has gone far enough, I hearby give the verdict to Long218 GUILTY"

Haha, I love Phoneix Wright, I'm playing it right now :D

Sweet. I'm a fan of Phoenix Wright :D. Also, (Post of suggester added to Court Record.)

I remember the days when Keys were 2 - 2.33 Ref. Changes nothing.

Long is only reflecting for how much most Keys go on the market. The price wouldn't continue rising if there weren't people which are actually paying the price of 3.77 - 4 Ref.

I stopped trading Keys for metal. I'm done with that system. I just sit back, watching how the Keymarket crashes and boycott it. This is what everybody should do btw. Just boycott the market. Stop buying Keys for metal.

We have different minds. I agree with Long218's suggestion (just want to get dem downvotes :3), you disagree with it. Fine.

I explained multiple times how to stop it. I'll leave this now. Only going to comment if I see something extremely stupid/interesting.

we're not the ones buying keys, volpiii - i'm certainly not.

the people who are buying them are the ones who look at backpack.tf's price and say - ok, fine, i can pay 1 scrap over that.

there are already traders who refuse to sell items for metal meaning this feedback loop has managed to create a 2 class system and traders stuck in metal trading no longer have a way out or a way to even afford higher priced items.

this is why i really truly think that currency pricing should not be decided in the same way that commodity pricing is decided. just like in real world economies.

Long gets a lot of flak for his key suggestions. Hey everyone, we know he has a lot of keys. We get it. You know what else he has a lot of? Proof. Do you know what you don't have? Counter proof.

If you believe his suggestion is so wrong, prove it. Quite frankly, he has more than enough proof. It seems you guys are more upset that he has so many damn keys and you have so few and you downvote him out of pure spite.

His proof isn't wrong, there is no counter proof, don't attack him for his suggestions if you can't prove he is wrong. Grow up already.

Thanks for the suggestion Long. Going to remain neutral here simply because I hate voting on key prices. The only one I ever voted on was the one I made myself haha.

for u how i can provide proof for sell 3.33 right now? some masochist?

use your brain man ... this is a big shit ...

What do you want to tell us?

More random flaggs for asking simple questions pl0x.

"use your brain man"

And here you are constructing comments that I have to read multiple times to understand because it is worded so poorly.

I believe you are asking how you can provide proof of sales at 3.33? Go look on Outpost and find people selling at 3.33. You won't find any because they don't exist.

easy if tomorrow bp.tf post the key is 7 ref u never see a key to 3.88 -.-

WTF u have 4 year old?

No, don't have a 4 year old.

The price of keys have changed by the time a suggestion is made. Please try to make a key suggestion about predicting the future price of keys before they actually get to that price. You will just get banned.

Key prices are 3.77-3.88 now, we aren't guessing they will be that in a few days. They have ALREADY changed prices. We are behind on the key prices, they change before we do.

ok i don't waste my time here ... GL with your keys

The trend I see with anyone supporting a key price hike:

- Has at least 30 keys in their backpack, so they have something to gain

- Acts like an Ivy League economics student and makes elitist arguments to anyone who dares disagree with them.

- Spams tf2finance.com, and gushes over it's accuracy like the spreadsheet. Yeah, we all know how that worked for the spreadsheet

- Makes a stupid comment saying that they haven't found a seller selling at the current low price for "a long time," which translates to a week

- Lies about how they have been able to sell at the projected high price, yet refuse to show proof.

- Cites "depreciation of refined" to further support the price hike on keys, even though they are the only ones stating that it is happening.

- Mocks you for not having at least 15 alt accounts

- Spams that something that has a purpose (Refined Metal) is completely useless, and you are a fool for even having it.

- Are the people on outpost spamming QUICKSELL QUICKSELL QUICKSELL on unusuals.

- Think that only a complete moron would unbox crates.

- Think the best advice to new players is NEVER UNBOX, AND HIGHBALL ON KEYS SINCE IT WILL NEVER GO DOWN.

- Are only upvoting these key prices so they can brag about their backpack size like it is a sports car they will never drive, and insult anyone with what they deem to be a low amount of keys.

- Are secretly terrible players in TF2

- Insult you for making personal choices when trading

- Insult you for not playing TF2 competitively

- Making long winded responses to your list, and type in red text, implying they are pissed off at you.

- Completely ignore the fact that 50000 keys were added within a week..

- Has their whole life dedicated to raising the price of keys on this website.

- Act arrogant when trying to set a new price for the keys.

- Think it is wise to infinitely raise the price of something that is also infinitely available.

- Think it is "painful" to trade for keys in game.

- States that the amount of keys in their backpacks has nothing to do with the suggestion, even though it is proven contrariwise.

- Wants you to stop downvoting his comments even though his attitude leaks through to his comments

- Arrogantly states that they will not stop unless their suggestions are accepted.

- Do not believe that this site has any influence on the market, even though evidence points.contrariwise.

- Believe this website will not go through the same problems that the Spreadsheet went through.

- Makes a price suggestion literally a few hours after their previous one was accepted/declined.

From this text I only get that I'm not allowed to support the suggesters price in any way. Cool story, bro

And that is pretty much every aspect of price voting in a nutshell

Please stop copying and pasting this on every suggestion, half of this isn't relevant most of the time.

He did delete the "LIMITED EDITION PROMO" part.

Small mercies.

no words can describe how stupid that is.

no words.

so much logic in this paragraph and truth in this paragraph

i salute you poncho for taking your time and dedication to write this beautiful piece of art

because spamming this on every key suggestion will make a huge difference!

tl;dr

If you're wondering why prices are going up here are some reasons.

It all started a long time ago during the 2012 Halloween update. That is when things really got stupid. There are several theories about how it got this high.

Some say that there is too much metal because of people who have several alt accounts. This then leads to ref being less valuable.

Some say the Steam Market/people who sell for $ is controlling this price.

I just think that sellers are getting greedy and buyers are getting desperate.

The biggest reason is that backpack.tf is trusted as a true source of pricing knowledge and sellers try to make the most out of what they have by asking 1 scrap over; hence the "slow" creep of the price.

If you have any theories of your own feel free to tell me.

- Massive unboxing on halloween and christmas

- backpack.tf got more popular while the events and is now used as the "new" spreadsheet

- Steammarket: Supply of new Keys drops hard. (Why should I buy new Keys in the store if I can buy them cheaper from other persons on the market?)

- Too much metal, too many idle-accounts.

- Greedy sellers on outpost. The price will always be (backpack.tf price + 0.11 Ref)

Just put everything together at the right time and the Keymarket is going to crash.

since everyone seems to require proof for stuff, please provide proof that there is too much metal because of too many idle-accounts. this argument is totally bogus.

agree with the other points

also i think that backpack.tf would do well to not regulate (yes, it does regulate it) currency. only non-currency items.

keys, bills, and buds should become off limit for price "tracking" on backpack.tf. instead, a sensible group of traders should form the TF2 equivalent of the IMF (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund) to help regulate the TF2 economy and prevent a runaway inflation due to a broken feedback loop.

i really like your idea sir!

Genius! But unfortunately, i think it will never happen.

Nice idea, but that could go so wrong if the group of traders started manipulating.

a proper group would only be able to do this under public scrutiny with all proof and writeups of decisions made public. unreasonable price manipulations would be punishable by death :D

And Soon Just Like Great depression of 1929 when all stock market crash

Don't You Love It When People Type like this and stop.

good suggestion, great proof. cant see why you could turn this down - well besides the fact you don't like it that is.

well, I can give you three reasons,

admits they can be bought cheaper in the first line

Tf2 finance

and the counter proof

No, no more fucking suggestions on this, the only thing it needs is to go down.

It'll go down once it crashes, maybe even under 2.55 Ref.

Agh, I hope it crashes before it reaches 5 ref or something ridiculous like that.

It should crash between 4.55 and 5 Ref. At least I hope that people realise then what they are doing.

Says that now...Halloween 2013

"I wish keys were 5.33 like the good ol' days"

suggested 8.44 - 8.66

That's what I said last December....no time specific effects...and they kept rising after that....

I wish people that don't understand economics would stop posting stuff like this.

I Agree! But The Price Of Keys Needs Be Lower Soon If Not It Just Going To Be Like Great depression of 1929 when all stock market crash but just in tf2!

Typing Like This Makes You Seem Smart

Posted a trade on OP buying for 3.66. Added in about 5 minutes. This was probably pretty unlikely, but it is certainly possible to buy for 3.66.

http://imgur.com/k7uBhKH

Inflation is really happening.

That's old news

I think you may need to brush up on your Econ text books.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/0/846940247671000891/

Keys are not inflating. That is completely wrong. Please do not ever use that term again when referring to keys.

The more you know! :)

Why man. WHY ruin this for everyone. Seriously man, there is absolutly no point of making this. It seems you don't want profit, so that's fine I believe you, but why raise it? So it's more "realistic"? The price is fine as is man.

I was there, even before the haloween update in feburary last year, I have been trading on and off for the past year, and this price is absolutely ridiculous.

Things were just fine with keys at 3.33, but NOPE, had to rise it by a scrap slowly and slowly, because this is what people at TF2Outpost sell at.

Well of course! TF2outpost will ALWAYS sell a scrap higher than the price! It's their way of making profit! TF2Outpost is NOT a viable proof, and people should stop using it for proof.

I tell you guys, it's happening. People are selling at 4 ref right now on outpost. Guess what's going to update here on backpack.tf?

Trading was fun and games for me back then. it was such a fun past time.

Now it's a serious game of profit making by scum bags.

I'm going to be done. I will end my 1 year of trading if keys hit 4 ref, it's getting out of hand.

ahh, mah early days of trading, when all I wanted was a bills hat because I got my L4d2 pre-order on the xbox xD and I was pissed

That was when keys were 2.33, and it was easy to make it as a new P2p, now its near impossible :<

wth are you talking about? That makes no sense. Keys were just fine at 2.66 xP.

Yah at 2.66 they were, but that's far from what were at right now. I'm trying to be resonable here.

Trust me, I was there when keys were 2.33. Don't worry.

;] Idk why these traders are killing the game for everyone else.

Is sad, but is true. The key's price is going to the space.

UPVOTED

(I liked it when the price was 2.66 key, it was all so simple ...)

Yah man. Way back when in the good ol days, when buds were 24 keys and backpack.tf didn;t exist.

When spreadsheet was the fair pricing guild. The good old days.

Everyone wants to steal a scrap

When the price was 2.66: "HERP DERP, SELLING KEYS FOR 2.77"

now: "HURR DURR, SELLING KEYS FOR 4 REF! PROFIT PROFIT PROFIT!"

man, thiss will be repeat infinitely.

EXACTLY MY POINT

TF2Outpost is a retarded site to use as proof!

This will just keep going on and on and on man! It's ridiculous!

And I do remember trading or seeing you once Splinter :D

Why would you suggest this again? All the trades you have posted are ones that are either selling in bulk or have NOT sold. You're not spending time like nuclear did on the last suggestion to include all the trades of 3.66 ref that get closed. He spent the time and in 2 hours showed almost 20 sold on outpost at 3.66 ref. And it's even easier to get them at that on tf2tp. TF2FINANCE takes this into account and shows the average price is 3.77ish. Absolutely no need to make this all over again.

tbh i accept ur proof, refuse to upvote, bc it think there is a bubble that is bad for the economy.

i personally would prefer someone who doesnt stand to soo obviously make a profit off the price change. even if u had buds, unusuals, bp expanders etc id be more inclined to upvote (but still wouldnt). if i make a suggestion on bumping the price of bubbling noble (own 1) i would get ranted at abt trying to profit, no matter my proof. just make an alt already and have said alt post these suggestions. then maybe people will believe that u rnt out to make profit/metal/[insert commodity here]

my issue is i see sellers on op set formula for key price as follows: backpack.tf price+.11

I wish there was a way to boycot this bullshit.

Keys need to go back down at least to 3.66 as a standard price.

People will always sell them on outpost for one or two scrap extra, and you don't need to raise the value because some assholes are trying for extra profit

If we could get this "Long" guy to stop spamming this suggestion I would be happy

While we are at it, can we get HOUWARs back down to 3-4 buds? Id like to buy one ;__;

Why would someone want to raise the price of keys? *sees that he owns 600 keys which means he is making 600 scraps/66 ref if the suggestion is accepted* Oh.

It would actually be ~300 scrap because the average is going up a weapon. However, other items in his backpack are valued at keys/buds so it'll go up much more than this amount.

Just stop already, just make your next price suggestion which i am guessing you will do right after this one is rejected, at 4 ref. That's what you;re aiming for is it not. Infact, make your next suggestion 2 keys to buy 1, because you're not going to stop, Give the market time to stabilize, And try going into trade servers, that's real time trading. It's more fun, this game does have a economical side to it, but don't forget it's a game, and all about having fun. Not ''Omg guys, some people are selling at 3.77 and like i shuld make a big deal about it like right now'' Just dude, have fun and try not to ruin others, or at least try not to for a week, it'd be nice.Keys don't sell as fast at 3.88 as it is, and people need time to get use to 3.77, the range you suggested is fine, you'll just be going up against yourself, basically saying that You were wrong about the price suggestion, the credibility man, it's not there anymore. So give it a break man, stop before you get ahead of yourself. The Price range you suggested is fine. Stahp it, no. Stahp. Bad.

Our lawyers say 'NO! NO!'

STAHP!!! YOU ARE A PRICE MANIPULATOR!!! WE NEED KEY PRICES TO BE STABLE!!!

/sarcasm

Not sure if this is true, but if it is...

--->

http://puu.sh/28n6R

>implying this suggestion is going to pass

Pokéman493 · posted about 3 hours ago

Long218 is a joker. I really don't take anything he says seriously.

I stand corrected then. I guess...

Not taking this suggestion serious then.

amen brother...amen

Why can't contributors be more like Hugh Jazz? Where is Hugh Jazz when you need him? Oh, that's right. Probably off making quality, worthwhile suggestions as opposed to some people...

[url]http://i45.tinypic.com/2moro92.png[/url]

Bought 6 keys each for 3.66 on a trade server yesterday. They were selling at 3.66, I wasn't asking to buy. They had more keys to sell too, but all I had was enough for 6 at that time.

Thanks for posting. Supposedly, Long and Simon think it is impossible to get 3.66 keys.

I never once said I support this suggestion, just said that no one has dis proven him.

If one sale dictated the market, this website would be horrible.

Fair enough. My problem is this:

"1. Keys can be bought at trade servers at less than this price but there are not many people trade in servers and it is painful."

Translation: "So we all know we can get keys for 3.66 ref on trade servers. But because it is easy for me to find highball proof, I am going to raise the price."

Hopefully you're banned, do this to make up the value of your backpack and now back again, and since you drove yourself some time.

I hope you get what you deserve, you're being a nuisance and unscrupulous type, which seeks to raise the price of all items you have.

Why do coments like this even get upvotes? His backpack is worth almost 2000 dollars, do you think 17 dollars matters to him that much? Also any item that is valued in keys will rise because of this weather its a key or an all father or an unusual. If you have any items worth more than 8 ref, you will also get a slight bump in bp value. Even that doesn't mater because the price of keys isnt rising, ref is falling.

money is money man, why do people resell keys for 1 scrap at a time? FOR THAT 1 SCRAP PROFFIT!!! 1 scrap is clearly going to matter mate.

Someone perm ban this dude, price manipulating much.

Really? The price of the main currency changed after 1 day in the whole TF2 community? The current range is fine, stop making key suggestions twice a week.

Buds, Keys and Refined suggestions should never pass without proofs from all the trading communities, e.g. TF2OP, TF2TP, Bazaar, Reddit, Sourcep, TF2Trader, trade servers etc. Relying on a single source equals to what we have seen lately.

http://i.imgur.com/O1zDJ.gif

http://i.qkme.me/3qt6y9.jpg

http://tinyurl.com/amrg2th

Late to the party I see http://puu.sh/1CjVi

yup.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lulw66kqHX1qkxn4yo1_500.gif

Haha wow, you really believe in this price.

Considering how much proof he has, and how not a single person here has posted ONE link of counter proof, I feel as though people are just tired of keys going up, and they know they can't stop it.

Counter proof is non existent in this thread, while there is a plethora or proof. Seems to me someone needs to prove him wrong, or everyone should stop complaining about the prices and just stop buying keys at the high prices.

Of course that is just wishful thinking though.

It's easier to provide mounds of Tf2outpost proof than it is for me to compile my own tf2 server proof. That is common sense.

It is also well known that outpost is home of highballers who raise by 1 scrap every time a vote passes. In order to defeat a suggestion like this (based on what you and Long seem to advocate), we would need multiple people to stop what they are doing and take pics of themselves buying keys on servers.

Once again, compiling that evidence is a lot more time consuming than grabbing outpost evidence.

which is why there is trade screenshots that were ignored?

http://imgur.com/k7uBhKH

http://i45.tinypic.com/2moro92.png

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8880578 bought 2 keys.

not to mention tf2 finance > _ >

because outpost is the controler of trading, got it let me trade in all my logic for yours dear sir.

Even though I am against it. All that evidence looks legit

I waiting for keys being 4 ref...

If you go on outpost and search for key sellers, most are already selling at 4 ref. It's sad really.

NO not again, keys should never goes up in the first place

Don't any of you remeber that beautiful time when keys were just 2.66 and everything worked out fine

Keys are the basic foundation of tf2 in trading (beside hats and misc) and should not be change

oh BTW I am downvoting

Keys had every reason to go up.

Please stop talking about that which you know nothing of.

I remember when keys were 2.66, I also remember a time when their weren't ref farmers or limited Halloween only effects. I also remember a time when people wouldn't set their keys for sale on Outpost, buy all the keys from anyone selling for less than them, just to sell them higher.

That is what is going on. If people are selling keys for higher than you on Outpost, they buy out your stock so people can only buy keys from them.

You may not like it, but they need a change in price.

mmhmm the key to ref ratio is around 2.6 :O

467,000 keys

1,200,000 ref

divided =

2.56 (rounded)

too much ref, because of farmers (mmhmm)

National Craft A Hat with Refined Day! everyone removing 3 refined on a single day would eliminate the "too much ref" and put a lot of hats into rotation.

Neat.

So are you going to do the same thing you did with the Tuxes?

"1. Keys can be bought at trade servers at less than this price but there are not many people trade in servers and it is painful."

What does that mean? Its harder to trade in a server than on a website that lets you auto bump a dozen trades?

Doesn't convince me of anything except the sloth of wealth.

OMG......Stop already, keys are going to hit fucking 5 ref by 3 weeks at the latest if this keeps up......ignore the Outpost Highballers

easy 2 get 3.66

wheres Michael Moore when you need him?

I wonder what would happen if bp.tf stops doing suggestions for keys?

If price gougers on OP have nothing to base their prices on where then would they get their prices? Spreadshit - a proven market player/scammer? I honestly believe half the problem of this key price conundrum is due to price suggestions here. I'm not saying Long is to blame. Personally i think good on him for being able to sell high and buy low, a lot of people don't have the patience for it, i know i don't. The amount of keys he has means 2 things, jack and shit.

The mods, I hope, can obviously see the trend on pricing here. Stopping the suggestion of key prices and just handle only items instead of currency and let the market settle would do a lot of good, but also has the chance of doing a lot of bad. Still I know one thing for sure, bp.tf is not helping the situation.

I agree. Something that as currency shouldn't really have a firm price.

The real world isn't a good example. But it's like it takes more quarters to get a dollar with these keys suggestions raising the price.

There is actually a real world analogy in the Argentina Coin Shortage. Here's a fun read: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/argentina/090428/argentina-cash-problems

It's basically what's happening to the TF2 Economy. However I think it would be better if the site admins just set a firm price and let the people sort themselves out. Maybe one vote can be accepted every quarter or so, at least that way the price wouldn't be blinking every other night.

Accepted a day ago, price is "already" hiking back up.

Alright, I'm done. Time to sell out while I can.

Good idea, sell out now, and sit back and watch the magic when people relize "why are we paying so high" then the key market might crash, or watch and see keys grow to 10 ref, either way cashing out seems better and better after each suggestion > _ >

Well, if the bubble gets too big, it'll pop prettyyy fast. And it's not like a scrap adds much value to keys until you get into the hundreds. I'm just going to cash out little by little, maybe I could grab some nice upgrades for my computer.

Keys go up, buds go down.

Im getting real tired of your shit TF2

>2011+2

>Not stacking keys when they go up and selling buds when they go down.

::D XD Xx360NoScopeKeyStackingxX

It's just a flipping video game. Calm yourself down guys.

*Floods of down votes*

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8880578 bought 2 keys.

tf2finance is 3.77 ref right now. Current range is where its at.

you are using it for your own goodness :L

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3084886

What have we here...

gooderthanhail's words, not mine:

(Referencing Long218)

"That guy's suggestion got declined initially and now he has resubmitted it again (go look - hours after rejection, he tries again to raise the price). Oh, and he has near 600 keys now.

Backpack.tf loses its credibility when it allows people like that to change key prices at an hourly/daily basis. It's ridiculous and is just as bad as spreadsheet."

If even people in the forums can understand that these constant key suggestions are giving backpack.tf a bad reputation, and key sellers AND the admins are in complete denial about the ramifications of what these constant key suggestions will do to this site, this site is going to suffer the same fate the Spreadsheet went through.

http://gyazo.com/b83e14233a09728de29fd80505537ca8

thanks for your contribution to community, mr greedy key

That evidence is damning...

It was sarcasm, fairly obviously.

Bannu him!

I'm just passing through here...

Can gold or another admin ban this guy already or at least mark him as a scammer? I've been going through his profile and he not only makes suggestions to increase the price of of keys on a routine basis but does the same thing for buds as well so he can profit of off it. Not only that but he keeps making suggestion after suggestion every other day to increase key/bud prices. I've easily been able to buy keys at 3.66 not only from outpost but on trade servers as well, so this suggestion is a bunch of hogwash. Sure it may take longer than 3.77 or 3.88 keys but I can still buy them at 3.66. The only reason there are a lot of people selling at 3.77, 3.88 or even 4 is because of this site. Sellers will try to maximize their profits so of course you have to expect seller prices to be at the high range of the backpack.tf prices or in most cases a scrap or two over. If we changed the price to 3-3.33 ref then within a day or two most sellers would be selling at 3.33 or 3.44. Something needs to be done about this.

He provides excellent proof with his suggestion, because there is proof of key/bud rises and stuff. Check his page, he has been with backpack.tf a long long time, has a pretty good reputation here, and is very knowledgeable. Every post he throws out has proof to back it up (Look above) and he doesnt deserve to get banned for handing out pricing suggestions. Thats the way this website works. Long doesnt deserve to get banned for posting suggestions with proof.

btw, im a gurl XDDDD

Says the person with 144 keys in their backpack...

Can we stop the BS with how many keys people have? I have a shit-ton, but I don't want it converted to refined. It doesn't make a difference how many I have.

The greed is strong with this one.

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Basically my thoughts on this:

1. Probably too early for a price rise.

2. Long's getting a lot of hate at the moment.

3. Price manipulation is probably not happening in this instance, imo.

4. No-one is going to get banned.

5. Stop flagging randomly people.

Conclusion: In my honest opinion, this should't pass, but I am disgusted in the community's reaction to Long. He/She's spent more than a hundred hours on this site helping the community - a somewhat dubious $15 boost in his/her bp value is practically nothing. And please guys, learn what flags are for. If this gets flagged I might start a discussion about it. It's getting really frustrating to see people who don't agree with the hive mind getting hidden from the conversation.

but we has dislike button not flagging button :3

oh and btw, thats a 15$ boost per key suggestion, it adds up

Nobody is going to record the keys we buy on trade servers, so don't ask for that proof. If you really want to prove the "Outpost always hikes the price up a scrap" people wrong, get some proof that isn't from outpost. Also, try not suggesting the same price twice within 24 hours.

Once again - http://scrap.tf/stats

90+ bought so far today (9am) at 3.66

Haha, mega shitstorm :D BTW is it me or there's something wrong if 80% of us dislikes this suggestion and rising price of keys and it will still pass? I did something and just don't buy keys for metal. Also people are greedy and saw that if you will sell keys for 1 scrap more than on bp.tf, some random people will buy it.

No, it means 80% of the people are wrong.

No, 75% of the voters don't want that the price of Keys keep rising.

Which is why they are wrong. Doesn't matter what you want. Only matters what the truth is.

I cant wait till it hits 4ref... cause then it will crash just like last time & about this time last year

You know how? Or is it just a guess?

Last 2 times this occurred the Market Crashed once it hit 4 ref, because items that are one key now aren't one key, causing the market to crash. Its not a guess, its guarantee this will crash .... again.

PLOT TWIST: Long is actually a spy from EA/Activision trying to crash Valve's biggest game by getting everyone so mad that they leave the game

Its the perfect crime :O

http://i.imgur.com/cClBCgc.png

How much is a key again?

if you raise price then the new 3.66 will be 3.77 and people will not sell at 3.77 but 3.88 or more

Its all about increasing his own BP value. It isnt hard to see that. Just look at his comment 6 days ago in a past suggestion.

"Hey guys, I have over 200 keys and I want to increase my backpack value."

Dude but you own 595. If this will get accepted then there will be absolutely no ending of this key rising action

Kind of hard to get at 3.66 (I bought several at that price), can easily get for 3.77 (2 adds in a minute). Downvote.

Is anyone even still reading the comments?

Just the last one. I'm too lazy :V

Eventually, the price will rise so high that nobody will buy keys so they will crash down in price, I'd rather get that over and done with ASAP

Too soon since last update to say 3.66 should be taken out of range, tf2finance average is still sitting at 3.77.

Here you go, an infinite loop of proof so that keys will rise indefinitely. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8907255

They are raising! I don't know how couldn't I see this before. Big upvote.

Edit: posted after this got closed, how nice.