Oh god

Sure why not? Lets see how far we can raise it before we kill this game.

Not even 200 lines of "proof" from the highballer/lowballer site will change my opinion on this.

No.

You didn't give much evidence supporting the fact that you can't find keys for 3.66 It's still do-able to find them for 3.66 in the current market

the fact that you used someone else's proof only about a day after their offer got rejected means i will find you, and i will bitch slap you.

"Please don't start a flame war"

Please don't raise key prices

I have to unfortunately agree, people are even BUYING at 3.88 ref.

Its crazy.

TRADE SERVERS. Keys are still sold at 3.66 on trade servers.

EDIT: Granted, a very small number are moved at 3.66 compared to the number moved at 3.77 or 3.88.

haha, I sure am glad I got 140+ keys in my backpack right now :D:D:D::D:D!!

Great proof! I hate key inflation though. Oh well, my opinion is not as great as facts. UP VOTE :D

upvote because i have a lot of keys and this would be good for my bp :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Note to people out there who think this will ruin the game: You don't need to trade to play the game.

Bit biased, considering all of the evidence is from outpost and as we all know, people overprice EVERYTHING on there. Posting evidence from other websites and screenies from trade servers etc may sway my decision. As for now though, I'm voting against this.

Can we hang a sign by the Join Server button that says "No Poor People Allowed"

I'll make 3.88-4 Ref in a few days, kay? :3

Holy ****!!!!

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ DAT JUMP!

might as well raise it to 4 flat. lol

3.77 is not easy to find, actually the price now is 3.88 - 4 ref, and key suggestion always take many days to be accepted, when this one pass, key price already go up to 4-4.11 i think.

OMG, YOU OWN 5!!! ECONOMY RUINER (insert buzzwords here)

Because nobody did it yet.

So when this gets updated, then will people start selling keys for 3.99? Then after that updates that'll get updated to 4.11+?

Why.

These price suggestions are the reason why people price higher and higher on outpost.

EVER since Long218 made that price increase for 3.88 on keys, people on tf2outpost who saw it raised thier prices to 4 ref. It's insane.

People will just price thier keys 1 scrap higher than suggested price, then you guys use this proof to rise it further!

SERIOUSLY. TF2OUTPOST is not a valid source of proof! This needs to end!

Hope the mods can see this.

The prices of keys and buds in terms of real world money do not change too much, it is the metals themselves become worthless, so backpack.tf should calculate backpack vaules based on key price, not the price of refine metal. And after each update of key price, backpack.tf should immediately lower the price of refine metal.

I have been able to buy a good number of keys at the price of 3.66 ref. In fact I am beginning to include specific records of my key purchases at that price. Funny you don't include it in your "proof."

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8758202

Stop spamming suggestions (this goes to the likes of you and Long218). And if you keep spamming more I hope you get warned/banned/marked as a scammer. It is a well known fact that tf2outpost sellers will sell at the high-end of backpack.tf prices or most of the time a scrap or two over. If we change the range to 4-4.33 ref then tomorrow people will start selling keys at 4.33 or 4.44 ref. If we changed it to 3-3.33 ref then instead people will sell at 3.33 or 3.44 ref. Obviously if you keep increasing the price of keys here then people on outpost will sell at the highest price. And if people like you keep using outpost as proof then once the price is increased sellers on outpost will try to sell keys at an even higher price. This leads to an endless cycle until something very bad happens. The only reason the endless cycle started in the first place is because someone made the suggestion to increase their price using the Halloween update/Steam market as an excuse. It's not impossible to buy keys at 3.66 ref as I have pointed out and I have been on trade servers with people sell keys at that price. The price of keys should be relatively stable like any real-life currency. And the price certainly should not be changed every day or two like what is happening now. Downvote.

This relates to YOU simon, as Mr. krab says "It's not the boot, it's the bootie, or ermm person wearing the boots"

What I meen is, the key suggesters SHOULD NOT get hate, but the key buyers / sellers... You get my point.

Alright, since you key sellers are STILL in complete denial about the lack of logic in the price hike, and the admins of this site want to "report" on prices, look well on this link:

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3084886&page=3

This is the link from the key forums that I shared during the last key suggestion, and if you clowns still want to be in denial, suit yourself. Don't come crying back to me when people look at this site and start to turn away from it.

The following are criticisms of this website by users of this forum, and the words are pretty damning.

From gooderthanhail:

(Referencing Long218 and his last key suggestion)

That guy's suggestion got declined initially and now he has resubmitted it again (go look - hours after rejection, he tries again to raise the price). Oh, and he has near 600 keys now.

Backpack.tf loses its credibility when it allows people like that to change key prices at an hourly/daily basis. It's ridiculous and is just as bad as spreadsheet.

Fix It Felix:

(Referencing someone using the metal inflation cop out argument)

Do you understand that this is a video game and attempting to apply real world economic rules is just as stupid as attempting to apply real world physics?

It ♥♥♥♥ing sucks that players can't easily acquire the hat/misc they want without having to overpay drastically.

Traders are dumb and you are also likely dumb, based purely on my current state of anger as well as my complete lack of knowledge regarding you personally in any sense.

Fix It Felix:

(Referencing a supply/demand argument, as well as the Steam Market)

You're purposefully blinding yourself to what I'm trying to say.

Normal items, that are available in the store, have a set price. People pricing them up on Outpost, backpack.tf, and the Market is bull♥♥♥♥.

Traders can go ahead and play ♥♥♥♥ing cash register with their virtual Monopoly money all they want, I don't care.

I'm comfortable with my inventory. Certainly not "poor", or after anything in particular as it stands. Wouldn't mind a Strange Kritz, but hey, my level 0 Vintage one makes me perfectly happy as it is. When people are charging higher than Valve and completely getting away with it, that's when I think it gets maddening.

CasualTF2:

Traderscum will be traderscum.

The supply hasn't gone down, it hasn't been down for a long time. It's just purely demand that has gone up, and its the most unstable kind of demand, the type driven by greed. It's pretty blatant price manipulation by those who hold keys, and if they don't watch out it might come back to bite them in the ♥♥♥.

There's two possibilities. Either metal really was that useless all along and they've only suddenly woken up to this realization now, after the many YEARS of idling that have gone on, or THEY'RE CREATING A BUBBLE..

Ask yourself not which is more likely but which is more dangerous, then go on and think twice the next time you pay for keys.

Stric_Matic:

(Agreeing with CasualTF2)

Metal has been dropping at the same rate and idled for years, so metal inflation, even

though it's always been a steadily present factor, can't be used to explain such a sudden and drastic rise in Key prices. What has happened in the period between October 2012 and now to justify the rise from ~2.44 ref to 3.66? The price of keys in the Store is the same, the item drop cap is the same, I doubt there's more idling accounts than there were a year ago, so why did the trading community come to a sudden agreement that ''keys are ridiculously underpriced, their value has to be 'corrected' by 50%''?

Yes, there were Eerie and Naughty Crates and Keys as a lot of people unboxed for the limited-edition Haunted Unusuals and Strange Festives, but does it justify raising the price of regular keys by 50 percent in the space of a few months? Just because regular keys were the currency to trade for Eerie/Naughty keys? And why have the prices risen even further when both events and Crates are over, meaning there hasn't been an uncrating-frenzy in 2 months?

Maybe key value was a bit low at 2.33-2.44, and there's no denying that metal inflation is a thing, but this ridiculous, unprecedented sudden rise smells of the the trader caste exploiting the temporary increase in Key demand from the holiday season to speculate and keep bumping prices even after the special Crates are long gone.

P*Funk:

(pay attention, because this comment is damning)

This is the net result of an unregulated economy ladies and gentlemen! If you look at the real world any time an economy is in the hands of those who hold the wealth without any controls placed on them you see this kind of absurdity.

If you read the comments on backpack where people talk about their reasons for justifying another price hike 16 hours after the last one they claim "People are paying this much" and usually point to one website.

The most recent one for keys actually involved a list of reasons why arguments against the price hike are meaningless. #1 was actually a statement that went something like this: "Yes you can get keys for cheaper on servers, but thats hard and there aren't as many people there (as on outpost)".

Its ridiculous. Btw, if you want some white paint you might want to buy a can now, I saw a suggestion last night to raise the price. Apparently if some idiot buys keys and doesn't care if he gets ripped off we have to reflect that in the normal price. Apparently.

Sud:

Yeah, I have a backpack worth well over 4 grand and even I called BS on their attempts to inflate name and description tags.

Those things have been in infinite supply since pretty much the beginning of trading time, and suddenly people are trying to jack them up a reclaimed using the logic that "keys are in more demand now"? Uhm, no. The tag to metal price is completely unrelated to the metal to key price because keys are IN SHORT SUPPLY. Just because keys are raising in prices of metal doesn't mean that tags are increasing too.

Try to point this out on backpack.tf, get downvoted by the idiots trying to fix the prices = complete loss of faith in that site. Good to see some third party confirmation of this stuff.

At the end of a day, it doesn't matter if a spreadsheet is run by 1 person, or a hundred, so long as anyone holds power over anyone else, it's gonna be corrupted into a conflict of interest eventually.

There is no "metal inflation" crisis. There's always BEEN "metal inflation". Metal is the currency of the people and as such has always been in huge supply. It is purely a currency item because building hats/weapons with it is generally not a profitable venture. You mess with this currency, you screw over a lot of people.

CasualTF2:

(Referencing the Steam Market excuse)

The market argument is probably the most BS one of them all. It doesn't correspond at all to the price of keys, and the stats show that there are now MORE keys than before, not less. There is no supply crunch anymore, only a rise in demand. This is a commonly used excuse that has zero basis in fact.

Now here are my two cents.

If the admins at backpack and the key sellers are still in adamant denial about the effect they are having on the market, the site will lose credibility with the trading community.... and like the Spreadsheet, IT might be replaced...

The majority of quick buyers are at 3.66 or less. Many sellers at 3.77-3.88.

I've been trying to sell keys for 4 ref, it's very slow. Based on this, 3.66-3.88 is the correct range.

Down vote :(

Again? Already? Really? Just stop.

Guys what do you do for new players hard to buy keys barygi are profiting by selling keys for 4 ref every where we roll suggest to fix At least on 3.66 ref

could we just make the price 3.88 instead of giving it a range? there is no range. i have a feeling the price might stabilize if we stop with these ranges which make the price of keys look much more volatile than they should be.

i am still gathering data on this whole crazy inflation but i believe it has been completely manufactured due to an unhealthy feedback loop between two popular sites:

backpack and outpost

the others just follow suit.

i ask again that consideration is given that this site, backpack.tf is great for reporting on the trading of commodities. however, it should not be used for the tracking of currency!

during the last key hike suggestion i pointed out that the ratio of keys to refined metal is ~2.6. that continues to be the ratio today:

metal: 1,219,470 >> http://stats.tf/item/5002/Refined_Metal

keys: 467,511 >> http://stats.tf/item/5021/Mann_Co._Supply_Crate_Key

granted, over the next 24-48 hours more metal will enter the economy due to the drop system reset - but by the end of the week, just as it was last week, things will stabilize again.

i will continue to track this metal to keys ratio weekly to see if there is any proof to the theory that metal is flooding the economy, something i strongly disagree with. the sample size i have is way too small currently - it will require at least a month or two of data.

i hope keys are not at 5 ref by the time i can submit more proof ;)

in the meantime... sanity please? and please do read some basic economic texts. and finally remember, currency should not be treated the same as cosmetic commodities.

Keys will be the death of this site.

Am I the only one that wonders how keys just started going up in price? I know that Market Beta was 1 factor, but not sure what else added to it. But ehh, To be all but honest, if people are willing to buy keys at such a high price then there is no point in getting mad over it. Keys are starting to become the "real world gold". Too bad I can't go mine any of it. :P

Definitely no

I can't wait till TF2 has its own "Black Tuesady of 1929".

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

currently at 3.85, I don't see how this will not be accepted, unless to change it to 3.77-4 immediately instead of having another vote in 2 days

Two words: Goddamn it

Please stop trying to raise the price of keys just because you have a ton if your backpack. I've been buying comfortably at 3.66 for the past two days. Stop buying keys at 4 ref or people will just continually increase the price they sell for. There are already outpost trades of people selling for 4.11 here is my proof that for the past two days I've been buying keys for 3.66

http://i.imgur.com/9J7a3Fq.png

http://i.imgur.com/Ymz9xDT.png

I spent 10-20 minutes in a trade server and buy keys at 3.66

Note about people having a lot of keys trying to raise BP value with rising key prices: I think I would rather have keys than clog up my BP with useless metal.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/690/71787984.png

just bought 2 for 3.66 today wasnt hard

Frankly I'm buying keys at 3.88, and only get 1 add in 1-2 days

Man. I hope the Admins are watching. I think things have gone too far now.

As a guide for traders, we are called upon to give proper price. I dont know who started it, but when 2.66 was created for keys. During this time, the price recieved no hassle and everyone was happy. When 2.77 came on the scene, it quickly rose and fell. Then 2.77-2.88 came in. It rose and fell. At this time, i was stil a spreadshit noob. Things were great and i moved up trading fairly easily. After 3 or so weeks i got a free key from drops and smelting. Thing moved well.

The reason why is was succesful in the trading buisness was because PEOPLE DIDNT MESS WITH SET PRICES! As a community, we need to come together and get this straight. We need a set price on this. You dont see the 25 cent quarter suddenly becoming 30 cents just because people decide that it is worth more. No. We need a set price at if anyone can fix this it is Backpack.tf.

We are a community of salesmen (of sorts) who buy cheap and sell high. However, we also set the prices of keys. True, we also have a responsibility as a trading guide to make accurate prices. However, these trades people have open on outpost? even if its 1000 posts, there is another million people who are on servers and dont participate in outpost, thus their input cannot be reached.

Ive gone to servers and asked people on their thoughts. Some people didnt care. Some people said its about time. However, the majority stated that they would rather have keys set at a regular price again than see it rise week after week. I told them why this was happening and where to vote and wanna know what they said? "Ive never heard of outpost (had 32 keys in bp and 3 buds)" "I didnt know we could help set prices (had 10 keys and an unusual in bp)" "If i had known we could help vote on this, I would have voted long ago to reduce prices on keys (Had 5 keys and 4 buds along with a houwar".

These are examples of people who have traded a lot in their time but they really dont use outpost or even know that backpack.tf exists. They only go off what people tell them. And they choose to believe it.

My big point here is summed up in three basic things:

1. Admins gotta realize that the community at large really does not want these prices. However, if the price is set here and made here from "proof" from outpost, then of course it will only continue to rise. and like a wave effect, it will affect everyone.

2. We need a set price. We cannot keep moving these up and down. I dont care if we are stuck at 3 ref. Fine. But for the love of Gaben STOP RAISING THE PRICE.

3. Outpost has been known to highball. Period. If they are going to be our proof for everything, we are going to get screwed. Outpost buys low and sells high. Often a little over spreadsheet. one person does it; someone sees and copies; copies them; copies them; etc. The you end up with with a completely new price because people dont want to lose profit.

Bottomline: Keys need to be set and not touched. Admins it is ultimately your choice. But if this continues, Backpack.tf will become an unreliable source for prices due to it being based of highballing opinions.

Thanks for reading. I just had to get this out.

i also gotta say: When people dislike comments, it almost reminds me of the French revolution. If someone said ANYTHING that wasnt liked, they were instantly beheaded. a pretty interested analogy in my opinion.

OUTPOST establishes the rules here, every fucking proof here is based in outpost.. OH wait one of rules in outpost is "Derogatory statements made regarding the value of the trade or listed prices..:" so is free market, i can put 1 craft hat for 2905629062 buds no1 cares....how u know every key seller have success??how many keys one seller need to sell to serve as proof? 1? 15? 600?

i blame the backpack because of key price, i dont care about weird sites like tf2 finance, idle accounts theory and bla bla... Is the entire responsibility of backpack.tf and proofs based in Outpost..

stay cool greedy key sellers

NOTE: outpost is cool site but NEVER can be used like proof..

now im selling 1 key for 2 keys ADD ME NOW

This sucks, IM tired of this keys suggestions, market will crash and really? Is hard wait a bit for keys stabilize?

Thought I'd repost this.

Here is your problem..

"That trader will proceed to sell those keys for more, either on a server or on outpost. I'm not sure about you, but I haven't seem too many traders buying high and selling low."

Some traders are trying to profit on the lowest form of currency...The 'real' currency of the game if you will.. Also id like to point out that its more than likely not the little traders that do this because there is no real profit in small amounts of keys..

That being said id like to reflect on the beginning of last year.

This happened with buds around march last year (not saying this is the same kind of manipulation but you never know..).. They were at 27 - 29 keys basically like they are now.. they dropped to 18keys almost overnight.

Who started the 'buds are going to crash' hype?

Maybe the same people who influenced this key price rise?

It wouldn't be hard.. This market seems to only need a little push and all the traders do the rest of the work.

Anyways.. People got scared & sold there buds for 18 - 20 keys and bam back up to 24-25, dropped again to 22-23, then it slowly went up from then on over the year. Here we are now with a key price rise and buds are at their highest again it seems.

Double crash imminent to maximize profit? Maybe? Maybe not?..

Who knows.. Who cares, Enjoy the game and your backpack.. trade for things you like instead of all for profit..

Don't kill the game with you're cashing out.

- hazard, keeping it real since 1989

You know what the most annoying thing? When someone unboxed crates with keys and getting strange equalizer...

Here is your problem..

"That trader will proceed to sell those keys for more, either on a server or on outpost. I'm not sure about you, but I haven't seem too many traders buying high and selling low."

Some traders are trying to profit on the lowest form of currency...The 'real' currency of the game if you will.. Also id like to point out that its more than likely not the little traders that do this because there is no real profit in small amounts of keys..

That being said id like to reflect on the beginning of last year.

This happened with buds around march last year (not saying this is the same kind of manipulation but you never know..).. They were at 27 - 29 keys basically like they are now.. they dropped straight to 18keys almost overnight.

Who started the 'buds are going to crash' hype?

Maybe the same people who influenced this key price rise?

It wouldn't be hard, It seems all this market needs is a little push.. all the traders do the rest.

Anyways people got scared sold there buds for 18 - 20 keys and bam back up to 24-25, dropped again to 22-23, then it slowly went up from then on over the year. Here we are now with a key price rise and buds are at their highest again it seems.

Double crash imminent to maximize profit? Maybe? Maybe not?..

Who knows.. Who cares, Enjoy the game and your backpack.. trade for things you like instead of all for profit..

Don't kill the game with you're cashing out.

- hazard, keeping it real since 1989

Why the Keys are Stoopidly high

Well, guys. If you think this suggestion is wrong try this: make a trade on outpost with "selling key for 3,77 ref" and....BUM! (3 seconds after) you have 3 new invites. "selling keys at 3,88 ref" (20 seconds after) 2 new invites. I've just tried it. Too easy sell keys for 3,77-3,88 now. Sadly upvote for me.