Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 3.88–4 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

548 votes up

414 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was accepted Mon, 04 Mar 13 21:12:22 +0000 by Puddilicious.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Do I have any regrets in life? Probably, but everyone dies eventually.

Buyers:

4 refined:

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9035263[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8987865[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9034330[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9027565[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9034166[/url]

3.88 refined:

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9012350[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9016111[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9018444[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9022004[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7419834[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369579[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8957935[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8867837[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9000375[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9023988[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9030970[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8949323[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9012333[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9027105[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9035186[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9032723[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9035180[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9020775[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8992781[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8942185[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9033914[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9004020[/url]

------------------------------

tf2finance.com:

[url]http://tf2finance.com/keys[/url]

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5133b501ba25368560000007

The other suggestion for more proof.

obvious upvote and why does anyone care if the price changes? srsly.....

The day has come, Baloo.

With this massive wall of proof, who knows what will happen.

From what I see, it seems good.

And that first line, A+.

You should become a poet. :D

Upvote. I don't care about reputation whatsoever, it's time that I found a strong suggestion.

"massive wall of proof"

Am I missing something ?

Your name is Long not Baloo.

Baloo > Long

This has already been discussed in the forums.

We'd all love to see 'em. Whenever you're ready just post the links.

I can admit when I am wrong, I cant find any but I see sitings have 3.77 every once on a while and trade servers can get them 3.77. You win

yea but the problem is trades at 3.77 come very rarely and when they do they are gone instantly. The problem with trade servers is that it is limited to only 30-32 traders to see your trades and the chat is ridiculously hard to follow and see.

yeah I understand it does not count as proof and depends on entire market, but if people can actually wait and be patient they can get them cheaper. I think the problem is people just cant wait, they go for the first trade they see

You're pretty darn lucky, then.

Should also includes http://scrap.tf/keys

Selling at 4 ref but out of stock or reserved instantly.

Some more buyers at 4 ref on reddit(today alone) :

http://redd.it/19m3q6 If you sell him all 6 keys he give you 1 bonus ref.

http://redd.it/19m2fd

http://redd.it/19lie4

http://redd.it/19lh0v

http://redd.it/19m2fd

http://redd.it/19l7rf 3.90

I wasn't aware scrap.tf was selling keys at 4 refined. O.o

it was(and still) selling at that price 20 hours after I posted my suggestion

I don't think they announced it, probably to avoid all the pointless "staph ermagerd" type comments.

Link 1 is already down to 8 ref

Link 2 and 5 are the same person

Link 3 is done

Link 4 is done

scrap.tf isn't a reliable pricing source: people pay extra for the convenience.

Link 1 lowered their price.

Link 2 has no metal

Links 3 and 5 are no longer buying.

Link 4 only has enough metal for 1 key

Gonna need to see much better evidence for 4 ref as a high end.

I've got more links, sorry if some are overlaps. Anyways I only focused on those actively trying to buy for 4 refined rather than using key sellers that say they've sold hundreds and are currently out of stock because I find the buyers side to be more reliable judge of the market.

More buyers:

4 refined:

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9042241[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9042097[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9042016[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9041999[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9042325[/url]

------------------

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9205286[/url]

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9204842[/url]

3.88 refined:

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9023988[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8186146[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/5706031[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9023418[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8841323[/url] (sold out reselling for 4 refined on the same trade)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9020775[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9040755[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9025416[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8969895[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7419834[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9037312[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9001792[/url] (sold out reselling for 4 refined on the same trade)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8984011[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9026057[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8614989[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8762576[/url]

------------------

[url]http://bazaar.tf/trade/151324[/url]

[url]http://bazaar.tf/trade/149812[/url]

------------------

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9203354[/url]

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9205688[/url]

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9205186[/url]

Dat's the massive wall of proof that I predicted would come :D

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8983973

>sold too many at 4 refined have to update prices 40+

lel, i wonder if it could work irl.

Damn you and your good proof.

Upvote

Thanks for the support...if I know anything about key suggestions though...these comments are both going to be disliked to death. :(

I wish it wasn't true these were going up so fast :c

WWHHHYY!!!! ;_;

Let the flame wars begin :3

Up vote

You're on your own... I've had enough of these key trolls who don't listen to anyone...

(Upvote btw)

5-5.88 ref by the end of the month! GG everyone.

this is an... upvote!

With each passing key suggestion, the credibility of this site dies that much faster...

And why is that?

The site has several noticeable problems:

1) This site has no regulation towards currency items.

2) Key sellers do not want regulation because they are trying to create a market where no one profits.

3) There is a definitive feedback loop between this site, scrap.tf, and Outpost

4) The admins either are oblivious to the feedback loop or do not care about it

5) It is a provable fact that Outpost pretty much uses this on their spreadsheet.

6) The people selling keys have turned trading into a tedious chore.

7) Whenever criticisms arise of this process, key sellers point fingers at traders rather than themselves establishing aforementioned feedback loops.

8) Whenever you post anything resembling outside criticism to the site, key sellers steadfastly defend it.

9) Whenever you try and say something that represents common sense about this issue, you have trolls swooping in and spamming the dislike bar.

Pretty much, from what I am seeing, this site is turning into the community version of the TF2 Spreadsheet, and if the people running that site were accused of altering prices for their benefit, then what makes this site immune to those criticisms? Look at Long218, pretty much he does not care about what is fair to others and "accuracy," but rather himself. And there is still adamant denial that there is something wrong with this process.

The biggest problem I have with the site is that it take's key trade's from OUTPOST.

Outpost is the largest volume of key trades. TF2finance looks not only at outpost but in trading servers as well. If 200 people are selling for the suggested price on outpost, while 2 people are selling for 3 ref in a small trade server, would it be accurate to have the low price be 3 ref? There are always outliers... it's the majority that we look at

this would be true if not for the fact that key traders justify the key price by pointing at backpack.tf. tf2finance and everything else is stuck to the same feedback loop of which bp.tf is central.

yadda yadda yadda - it's exhausting to repeat the same arguments but i leave with just the same one i mention every time.

keys are a currency. currency is not a commodity to be reported on. tf2 economy reflects real economies on many levels. in real economies currency prices are regulated, not reported on, because we have several thousand years of proof to show that unregulated currency always causes massive volatility, inflation, crashes, etc. and so on and screw your proof.

Hmm money (=currency) in stock market get's reported somekind if I'm right.

Also yes there doesn't really exist a completely free market in the real world and everything get's regulated by a government (at least a little bit). But "our" government would be valve. If they don't do anything about it, it's basically a free market without any form of regulation.

Oh my god, why are all you admins like this. If you simply stopped having currency voting, and took the average prices of keys by themselves, there wouldnt have been so much inflation

You seem to have missed the fact that every single link in the original proof is a buying link. Key sellers might justify their prices with backpack.tf and tf2finance, but it seems that plenty of key buyers don't mind at all.

they don't mind because they also check bp.tf and see they have no choice. if they are willing to pay a scrap more than the week before then the inflation continues because of the feedback loop between the two sites.

whenever trying to explain the rise of key prices there's speculation that it all started during halloween 2012 because of the special crates. great. and after that?

oh, it's the alt accounts making refined worthless.

counter. 2 weeks ago the ratio of refined to keys was 2.6. today the ratio of refined to keys is 2.6. the ratio hasn't changed.

i think that the reason we started seeing the upward trend of key prices since late 2012 is because - and please seriously think about this - that's when bp.tf hit a critical mass.

i don't have access to the numbers and it would be interesting to see a graph of unique visitors to bp.tf throughout 2012.

We're not the people making the game. Regulation is valve's job, so please talk to them about economy regulation. We're only reporting on what the actual sales are at.

Ah yes, the "We wipe ourselves clean from any blame" routine.

In response to Poncho Eastwood:

Wiping away blame?

Let's take a hypothetical. How do you suggest we regulate key prices? Do we have the power to say "nobody is allowed to sell keys for 5 ref" or "nobody is allowed to buy keys for under 3 ref"? Can we decide, "Let us make keys unpurchaseable from the store" or "let us discount keys and make them more affordable"? No, we do not have that kind of power.

Blaming bp.tf for reporting accurate prices doesn't solve the root of the problem; you're picking at a straw man here.

shenanigans asks: "How do you suggest we regulate key prices?"

it's very simple. bp.tf should stop reporting on currency prices.

In response to buddhapest

So your proposed solution is to report false information, or not report any information at all? Do you really think a lack of knowledge on prices will improve the situation?

shenanigans says: "So your proposed solution is to report false information, or not report any information at all? Do you really think a lack of knowledge on prices will improve the situation?"

no, not false. just none.

and if you want to report on the prices of keys, then report all other prices not in terms of keys, but in terms of refined.

obviously the latter is not going to happen since the currencies have already been established. so now it's time for bp.tf to stop reporting the pricing of currency. let tf2finance do currency, and let bp.tf do what it is best at: judging the "fashion" trends of weapons and cosmetic items.

In response to shenanigans commenting towards buddhapest

He has a point, you know. The way that keys suddenly gained 1 reclaimed in a week stresses the ludicrousness of this situation.

And responding towards my comment

Would it actually kill the reputation of the site if you guys refuse to acknowledge the price by what key sellers want? There will be more positive feedback to this site, and they can say that you guys price it lower than they do. Therefore, I can get a better bargain somewhere else. The way that this site is set up right now, the overall consensus is "To hell with what you think, your opinions do not matter".

And talk about regulation to Valve? What the hell do you think the market was made for, Einstein? An excuse to keep the prices high on keys? Or was It Valve saying "We noticed that the prices for certain items are high, so here is another avenue to go to"?

Amen to that. :)

Not exact numbers but this might be interesting :

[url]http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=backpack.tf&date=1%2F2012%2012m&cmpt=q[/url]

haha, i was just looking at that as well. also alexa. interestingly enough bp.tf traffic more than doubled at the end of october! (look at the daily reach graph nad pick "trailing 6 months"): http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/backpack.tf

Counterarguments:

1. What tf2 trading site has regulation?

2. Key sellers are obviously profiting

3. Correlational evidence, not causation

4. Contingent on #3 being true

5. PLENTY of people on outpost say "Take your bp.tf prices and get the hell out of my trade"

6. Then, don't buy keys?

7. Contingent on #3 again, and are key sellers not traders themselves?

8. The market is what it is, even if people hate it. People need something to blame, so they pin it on bp.tf

Instead of making accusations, why not suggest a resolution? Baloo suggested this price because keys are being traded for this price. Is there a way to cure traders of their lust for profit?

That counterargument about not accepting backpack.tf prices? That's reserved for unusual trades, and for good reason. This site has a notorious reputation for underpricing unusuals, and asking around Pink Taco (one of the more well known unusual servers), they do not like how low prices on some of the unusuals are. I have only EVER seen that comment in unusual trades.

Yes, of course. Traders always think a hat is worth more, because why should the hat be worth what they paid for it? No, it's worth more than what they paid, and so when we report on the prices, it becomes a "lowball price".

the only fair price would be what steam market is selling for!but that could only be used if everything was marketable !Lets start by those until everything becomes marketable through steam! we can start then suggest prices only for ref!lets start by including at least the steam market price in the range suggested for starter!wich we havent yet done that simple think!as an example the average sells this week for v.bills in steam market is 61 keys previous week was 64 the week before that 66

the vintage bill was as example ,selling in outpost for 40-46 keys easily!backpack.tf was pricing v.bill as 1.7-1.9 buds though how many where sold for 66 you might say?Myself alone sold 4 of those

if we cant reflect that changes in time ,then ,whats the point?steam market is 1.5 months old i think lust accepted suggestion was 3-4 months old!

the volume of demand can been seen at steam market graph!just sort lifetime and scroll on the history prices!

the offer from the other hand!there are few in outpost about 17-25 left to get

last month sold in steam market more than ~~30-40~~ 60 - 70 just checked.

something i thought we should think about include next to the suggestion

http://i.imgur.com/3jKMCRO.jpg

What do you suggest? Stop pricing keys? That would be a bad idea, and you know why.

I am saying there has to be a stopping point.

Yes, when the buyers refuse to buy any higher.

bloody hell, they cant, its like gassoline we cannot stop buying higher we need keys to get high priced promos, if keys go up our ref goes down, making it even harder to buy using anything but keys

Good analogy. Lets have the government enforce a ban on raising gas now. Look at dislikes I have lol, as if stop pricing keys would make it stop going up.

well from my point of view keys must rise further and let me try to explain why! when keys rise your bacpack value rises too! when you are a persons that owns a backpack above 1 key worth!so the key prices are reflected in value in all users

!as such there is noone profiting in that aspect!or should i correct saying all are!

then again in an economy you cant get profit without loses!so who is losing value??

and why?

ref farmaers are loosing more ref in comparsion to keys bought beacause of higher currency!

then again valve always wanted to make idlers a minority and preety much done right that!

who else is benefit from this?

noobs!new users ! the buy a key they craft a hat and they keep 1 ref to buy paint or whatever!! was this even possible when we started trades?

i dont think so!Crafters are benefit from this rise too! so why the criticism?what are you farmers?pff play farmvill!

the high value in ref for the key represent the new come traders and the idlers too!!

team fortress is now on Linux what that means in numbers?

Do the math and ask your self's what is the game i have to own if i am a Linux user?Go google linux games!Tf2 is actually the only descent option for linux ! it is the best game you can play in that os

tux was a linux community achievement item!congratulations to the community that help valve to reach this goal!

Win8 Win7 Vista NT* WinXP Linux Mac

4.8% 55.2% 2.6% 0.5% 19.9% 4.8% 9.3%

4.8% represent over 200.000.000 users

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."

Benjamin Disraeli

The underlying social tension grows, but the credibility of this site does not. There are plenty of people willing to buy for more, and using tf2finance as a crutch, the amount people are paying for keys keeps growing across the board. This site is based of evidence and there are people trying to buy for the current high-end because they'd rather have keys than metal.

Really you should be posting on all these outpost sellers trades telling them to stop buying for higher in order to allow key prices to settle.

You get banned too easily for spam on outpost. I've thought about it.

this sight is a crutch, not finance

I know that all to well. Word of advice, drinking and high tear trading... You get the picture.

You know and I know that is not how it works. The feedback loop is such that they are more focused with how much they can get than what is fair. You give the mouse a cookie, and he ends up wanting more. You give the mouse too many cookies, and he will question you when you try and take the cookie jar away.

The credibility of this site is not changing. What has changed is the people on the inside.

Running out of room, here's my response to this statement:

"Would it actually kill the reputation of the site if you guys refuse to acknowledge the price by what key sellers want, there will be more positive feedback to this site, and they can say that you guys price it lower than they do. Therefore, I can get a better bargain somewhere else. The way that this site is set up right now, the overall consensus is "To hell with what you think, your opinions do not matter".

What is your argument? You start off by asking a question, then halfway through the question it becomes a statement. First off, we're not acknowledging the prices by what key sellers WANT, we're acknowledging the prices by what TRADES SHOW. What people think can sometimes conflict with what the reality of the situation is. if everyone thinks a burning TC should be worth 2 refined, does it mean the price should be 2 ref? If everyone thinks tuxes should be worth buds, but nobody will trade a bud for a tux, does it mean tuxes are a bud? If everyone wants keys to be 1 ref, but nobody will sell for 1 ref, does that mean key prices are a ref? NO!

I don't know how many times I have to reiterate this: we track completed trades, not predict prices. Valve doesn't do anything in terms of regulation, and by what method do you suppose we can? if you're talking about the steam market, prices there are even higher than on outpost. Steam market has keys for $2.22, and since you can't trade refined metal directly, we take the current price of ref ($.36-.38), that would mean keys should be 6 ref.

shenanigans, you might think that you are acknowledging what the trades show, but more often than not now it is what the key sellers want that is more reflected.

What method do I suggest? Is it so hard for you or the admins to actually say no once in a while? Or does a long list of proofs that I sincerely doubt most people look at before approving it convince you more?

The tux and burning TC comparisons are like comparing apples to oranges. The Tux is hard to gauge a price for since they are not ready to be traded yet. The Burning TC comparison also does not fit because only five exist, the TCs are the most desired unusual due to trading status reasons, and the fact they are worth $4000 makes it feel out of place to compare it to keys.

YOU ARE NOT PREDICTING PRICES. YOU ARE ESTABLISHING THEM. YOU ARE ONLY STRENGTHENING THE FEEDBACK LOOP

The argument I was trying to make is that if the site stopped at the price it is right now, traders can actually view the site in a positive light and reinforce the notion that you can get it for cheaper. What we see now is that the feedback loop is such that the site cares more about key traders than casual traders, and cares more about making people pay through the nose to get just one key.

Look at Long 218's three key suggestions, and two others that failed. He did not give a shit about what people thought was a fair price, he got nearly 600 keys before his second suggestion, boasted that he wanted to boost the value of his backpack, and what is done? The site approves the suggestion. And it makes those who trade casually feel like chopped liver, like we do not matter.

The mods look at the proofs before deciding on a price suggestion. If there is proof, that means there are trades at such price, and we can't just ignore them. Long's suggestions were accepted because they had proof. Anyway, same as last time, my point is not to argue about what the price of keys are, but the underlying concepts behind how we operate and clear up any baseless accusations. You suggest that we stop pricing keys altogether. I do not deny that there may be confirmation bias, but it is not certain either. http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/137-key-voting-and-the-problems-i-see/page-?mode=show This is the same topic being discussed in the forums here.

One can also think of an experiment, where the price of keys are removed for a short time. After the time limit has passed, we look and see what the market price is. However, such an experiment would only shed light on the validity of the feedback loop, and doesn't stop the root of the price increases. How do we stop the root of the problem? I don't know. But not reporting prices seems like sweeping the issue under a rug, instead of trying to solve it.

>implying people will stop buying keys no matter how high the price is. KEYS ARE THE MAIN CURRENCY IN TF2, PEOPLE BOUGHT, BUY AND WILL BE BUYING KEYS BECAUSE THE DEMAND IS HUGE. This is a dumb as fuck loop that you ignore, you know people won't stop buying keys and the price will keep rising. Removing suggestions for the keys and the price for them would stabilize the situation. Closing the site would help help us trade happily as we did before. But who gives a shit:

1. People donate to this site.

2. Whole market is under backpack.tf's control, almost any suggestion you make is accepted if you're a respected user / donator, you make a land for your own profit.

Feel free to permaban me out of this site if you wish, I've had enough. Idiotic arguments like "DON'T BUY KEYS AND THEY WON'T RISE HURR DURR" (most idiotic suggestion ever) or " IDLE ACCOUNTS MAKE METAL DROP IN PRICE" in suggestions like this are taken seriously (rofl) and supported with what? With the air that your skulls are full of. Period. kthxbye

Not quite sure I understand your argument.... I'll just respond to a part of it. Respected users/donators have their suggestions accepted most of the time because they know what they're doing. Not simply because they donate/are respected.

Too bad I lost the link to the thread where this situation was explained. There were some suggestons from respected users with absolutely senseless / idiotic / even without any proof given. Those got tons of upvotes and only 1/10 of total votes were downvotes from those who spent some time checking the proof.

So you're saying that this site has made trading impossible? Such a great argument, where do I even begin...

First off, you admit that demand for keys is huge. A fundamental principle of economics is supply and demand. If the supply of keys remains relatively the same, but the demand keeps increasing, then prices will naturally rise. If there is an inbalance between the supply and demand, since the equilibrium price has not been reached, and so the price shifts. Removing a key price may or may not temporarily help the situation, but it does nothing to solve the problem. Feigning ignorance on key prices won't lead to them decreasing either.

Donators to the site don't get any special privileges in terms of price suggestions. People who have many previously accepted suggestions obviously know something about the market, otherwise they couldn't have passed suggestions in the first place. The market is far from backpack.tf's control, because if it were there would be no reason for price suggestions. Prices change because people are paying different amounts for items.

You attack the suggestion that "if traders stop buying keys, prices will stop rising." What is the basis of your counter? What proof do you have? Making a baseless accusation with no supporting information will not get an argument anywhere. If you've even taken a basic economy class, you will know about supply and demand. If the demand goes down for an item, while the supply stays relatively the same, the price will drop. Supply/demand is the sine qua non of a free market system, and to argue against it is folly. If people refuse to buy keys at, say, 4 ref, how can the price rise if nobody is willing to pay it? Second, are you going to deny that idle accounts make metal more common? Are the weapons dropped by idle accounts just disappearing into thin air, and metal supplies are staying the same? No, the supply of metal increases every day. If the supply increases while the demand stays relatively the same, price of metal will decrease.

Lastly, insulting others just makes you look like an ass. Really.

You have not made trading impossible. You have made trading extremely difficult. BIG difference.

It's more difficult to trade, because people now know the price others have sold the same item for?

Won't let me answer you directly, but it's more difficult because people ASSUME the price others have sold for.

Yeah preventing from sharking most of the time.~

And before bp.tf most people followed spreadsheet by the cent, not much difference for those stubborn people.

lets run the experiment. i've been asking for this since i first got involved. would it hurt to just stop reporting the price of currency for a few weeks and let tf2finance take care of it?

It's too late.

thing is mate that backpack prices are outdated and does not reflect steam market price at all!

the key should be 6 ref by now the vintage bill average price was 66 keys 1 week ago drop to 61 keys this week ,higher price was 72 keys 1 week ago 65 this week!!

backpack.tf price was 1.7-1.9 buds!i was profiting 16-25 keys for a single trade every time!

until this site evolves to reflect the prices of the actual trade there is a huge opportunity to profit for all!

vintage bills by the way are almost extinct from outpost less than 20 there. while 70-80 where sold in steam market without an update in price.note that less than 7% of those bills returnin trade sites!outpost bazaar or whatever till today.

its like steam prices are not reflecting into community trend and that's awkward?

you might say why didn't you suggest a new price then? well i did so but i closed it after some hours!i don't care so much about pricing items i get more profit when i am one of the few that notices the gaps!then i check it double check it and when i am sure i pass my experiences to friends so they can profit too!

omg, every your message on there is full of "Exclamation_mark"(aka !)...

????????????????????!

in your last message i have counted 10 "!". Most of your messages has a lot of "!".

Mate, it is quite annoying to read so many "!".

well its good to know you can count.

And the last ones sold for 90$ what is ~45 keys what is perfectly in the current range.

well i don`t sell when the offer is high!i wait until its the right time to sell.

and the average in backpack.tf where 61 keys for this week!that is a fact that is why i haven't sell this week any ,i am waiting for those to be sold first and then when the offer is low i practically get any price i post! i have made 67 keys (that was gifted and i bought for 40 keys)that was my biggest sale in steam market!well vintage bills are very few practically extinct from trade posts i wouldn`t be able to do this with any other item except vintage fan o wars but i don`t sell those!

At least you don't suggest a price every week and get them all accepted for your own personal gain...

Seriously. I was in the forums chat when Long was just saying he did it to become the top contributor. He'd probably kill himself if he was banned from this site. :P

well people r already selling keys at 4.11 great job backpack.tf

Its not the fault of bp.tf, and if you think it is you really don't understand how the key market works...

The way it works:

Price is listed at 3.55 Refined.

Sellers sell out @3.55 quite quickly, they decide to bump up their price to 3.66, buyers realize they'll have to pay 3.66 if they want keys, and they start paying 3.66, then those 3.66 sellers bump their price once again...And so on...Bp.tf is speeding this up at best...It is NOT creating the situation.

Also this has been building up for over a year...

October 2011: Keys went up to 2.66 during halloween, and 3 ref during xmas, and then settled at 2.66 where it stayed until halloween 2012 at which point it started rising, and then the market place was introduced and it continued to rise.

In September 2011, 10,000 Users were registered on Outpost, Now, 300,000 users are registered. So when keys were selling for 2.66 Ref, there were maybe 40,000 users (Tops). So the demand for keys has DRASTICALLY increased. AND now, there are far more idle accounts making Ref virtually worthless...

So thats the story of keys.

lol - idle accounts. the most stale, vile, and unproven theory about key prices to avoid the true reason: feedback.

please provide proof of "far more idle accounts making Ref virtually worthless" since proof is what this site is all about.

you spell feedback like its a bad thing!

"Its not the fault of bp.tf, and if you think it is you really don't understand how the key market works..."

What if... what if, now follow me for one moment, we ponder the possibility that these people only charge 4.11... because backpack.tf makes a price change... what if... we consider that rather than reacting to the market, that the market instead reacts to backpack... what if then every ounce of proof for a new suggestion is itself a reflex from a previous suggestion...

You might as well be telling me that the NYSE stock ticker has absolutely no effect on traders in real life too. XD

i never said bp.tf had no affect, in-fact, i specifically said it is having an effect.....BUT it's not causing the it....

Whether bp.tf raises the list price of keys or not, sellers would constantly ask for more and buyers would be willing to pay.

You're basically saying that absent backpack that the economy would continue to function along the lines of supply and demand... what an argument.

So you're telling me that if backpack reports a wrong price that people won't change to comply with it regardless?

In the real world pricing indexes are carefully regulated for the specific reason that anybody with any sense knows that they have disproportionate power if they report incorrectly be it accidentally, deliberately, or endemically.

*Sigh* i remember the times when it was possible to buy keys for just a single crafthat. Then, people got greed and started demanding more, and more and more and more and more! I look at the past, and now the present. *throws a tandrum*

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8904974

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8908515

Since it's the same suggestion, I'll just copy/paste the same comments:

"People can't wait 1 day to make a new key suggestion and site moderators simply don't care. It's a joke. I'm done.

* Again only TF2OP links. Its name now shall be Sovereign Key Market.

** Oh and if you have not noticed, the pattern is: Raise top end by 1 scrap in one suggestion then raise bottom end 1 scrap in the next. Repeat. Next one will be 3.88-4.11, then 4.00-4.11, and so on."

"And yes, apparently you can make suggestions for the most common currency item every day, and using only tf2op links is OK too. And if you fail in the first try, make a new suggestion an hour later. That's what happened days ago, the first one failed and the second one passed."

TL;DR; This one should pass, it's the second one on the same day at the same price, using the same kind of proof.

I get what you are saying, but can you please find me someone selling for 3.77 refined? Heck, I'll even take a link selling at 3.88 refined that can last 5 minutes.

You'll probably have a hard time finding someone selling it at that price on outpost, but if you go to a trade server, it should not be a problem. The last two days I was easily able to find people selling keys at 3.66 or less. The cheapest I was able to buy it as was 2 keys for 7 ref.

from the other hand to sell something 4 ref that tomorrow will cost 4.11 ref is not the best option to make especially if that item happened to be a 1 use tool!

Where else do you want people to provide links from? TF2TP where there is no way to see if they actually sold the item or have interested buyers? Trade servers where they have to screencap transactions from the chat and it could easily be faked? Bazaar where there is a extremely small user base where there's only 1 page of key sellers and half of them haven't been bumped in over a week?

And you think that TF2OP trades can't be faked? Come on, I wasn't born yesterday.

The minimum proof I expect is trades from all big communities, e.g. TF2OP, TF2TP, Bazaar, Reddit, SourceOP, Backpack.tf, SPUF, TF2-Trader and trade servers.

We are not talking about a rare item, it's the item with the most demand in the entire market.

I'm not against the price change, I'm against how the system is handling it, that's it.

If you can find links to disprove this suggestion, then I'd be happy to see 'em. You seem to keep asking other people to find links while avoiding anything already posted.

I'm not avoiding anything, I'm just sick of this key suggestion pattern.

In my point of view suggestions need to have links from all communities as their proof. You failed at that, same as everyone else lately. And everyone has an urge to update key prices twice a day and won't let the market breathe. I'm simply stating this. I'm not saying the price is right or wrong. Therefore I won't go after any links to disproof your suggestion, because that's not my aim.

currency suggestions need to have way more proof that includes screenchots

How exactly is that supposed to work? Am I to go out and buy 50 keys at 4 refined?

> You can't track what people are buying and selling for in trade server and it becomes just someone's word of mouth.

> TF2-Trader is all keys for cash and hasn't had many recent posts: [url]http://tf2-trader.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=us45e3q99qttgdq3hci6vdi4t0&board=7.0[/url]

> SourceOP is also just people trying to sell/buy keys with cash: [url]http://forums.sourceop.com/forums/32-TF2-Item-Buying-Selling[/url]

> backpack.tf doesn't have anywhere for buyers, but if you'd like to view the classifieds: [url]http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/5021/6/0[/url]

> You cannot easily sort through SPUF to see who is buying keys and at what cost: [url]http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=952&daysprune=2&order=desc&sort=lastpost[/url]

> I already have multiple links from TF2OP

> Bazaar:

[url]http://bazaar.tf/trade/151324[/url] buying for 3.88 ref

[url]http://bazaar.tf/trade/149812[/url] buying for 3.88 ref

> TF2TP:

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9205286[/url] buying for 4 ref

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9204842[/url] buying for 4 ref

------------------

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9203354[/url] buying for 3.88 ref

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9205688[/url] buying for 3.88 ref

[url]http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9205186[/url] buying for 3.88 ref

No stop it.

Incorrect. This site is used by key sellers to base their prices.

Its not the fault of bp.tf, and if you think it is you really don't understand how the key market works...

The way it works:

Price is listed at 3.55 Refined.

Also this has been building up for over a year...

So thats the story of keys.

how often are you are going to cut & paste this little story of yours?

As often as he has to explain it.

even if he's wrong?

fine, i'll cut and paste my response from the other comment then:

whenever trying to explain the rise of key prices there's speculation that it all started during halloween 2012 because of the special crates. great. and after that?

oh, it's the alt accounts making refined worthless.

counter. 2 weeks ago the ratio of refined to keys was 2.6. today the ratio of refined to keys is 2.6. the ratio hasn't changed.

KEYS ALWASY GO UP DURING HOLIDAY EVENTS. OH MY GOD seriously learn about trends

are we still having a holiday then? 'cause if you haven't noticed, the price of keys is accelerating not leveling off. the last holiday crates turned to crap on january 3rd which is now 3 months ago.

acceleration is one of the many signs of feedback.

I don't have anything to say except 1 thing. UPVOTE

On a side note, here's a spycrab walking to awesome music: http://thebest404pageever.com/swf/Walk_Like_A_Pro.swf

If you keep raising key prices people will eventually stop buying. This key inflation is gonna damage the economy deeply.

Spread the word.

And when people stop buying, keys will stop rising, and reach their equilibrium, which needs to happen before the market can stabilize....

Backpack.tf isn't raising the price, the price is raising and we're recording it.

And why the urge to record its price twice a day? Why don't everyone do that to all items? Why only keys?

Just let the damn market breathe for a while.

Because people only make suggestions when they feel comfortable that they'll be accepted, and the more they deal with the item the more they'll be familiar with it. Almost all traders use keys, so keys are the most likely item to be updated.

This is a comment that will be downvoted.

Its dangerous out there, here take my like.

Wait...now my comment is in jeopardy of being disliked...

not gonna let that happen.

/spam :S

Typical Key Suggestion:

"Mmm... this is a good one. Upvote! - Score: -18"

"This proof is horrible, stop raising prices! Downvote! - Score: -10"

"Another day, another key suggestion. By April keys will be 5 refined. - Score: 38"

Congrats, you just found out the universal truth about people's thoughts towards key prices lol

Reverse psychology ftw

Whenever I sell for 3.88 I get 5+ requests in 2 minutes, upvoted.

One thing I would like to address is this. Many people say "Oh I can find keys for cheaper on trading servers." While that may be true, what do you do with keys AFTER you buy them? Unless you get sheer joy from just looking at shiny objects in your inventory, I would assume you sell those keys. No trader I have ever known (who is serious about trading) will ever sell for a loss. For example, if a trader happens to buy 5 keys at 3 ref each, that trader will immediately try to sell for higher than 3 ref. As long as people are willing to buy at the higher price, the average price will keep going up. Yes, you may be able to find keys for cheaper. But ultimately you will sell them for a higher price...

Very true.

But selling keys now... is just a waste. People will still remain desperate for some time, new crates are coming....just buy 400 now while they are 4 ref and resell in a couple months when they are 5 or 6.

That's not entirely true. I buy other things with the keys that I buy with metal. It's easier to trade for items worth more than a key with keys than with metal because people have a different opinion of the metal value of keys. I have traded keys for metal before, but that's only when I needed metal, and at that point, I traded for the current metal price. Trading at the same price that you bought it for is not a loss.

Sure, you can use keys to buy items. But ultimately, that key will be sold for metal somewhere in the chain of events. And you said, when you need metal you will trade at the current metal price. That is why prices get updated, so they can remain current.

well tbh, it is not necessary for key owners to have to sell keys for higher price in metal. maybe they can just just use the key to be something that worth more in keys and then resell it for keys+metal(which will not influence the price of key in metal)

You can buy an item with a key, and then that key gets used to buy another item, and so on. Ultimately, the key will be sold for pure metal or used up...

well tbh it is not necessery for key owners to sell for higher prices the can go buy 10 keys for 1 scrap higher and that will reflect in the rest 500 keys in their backpack in a matter of hours!so if the question is will keys stop rissing? the answer is no,the reason is i wont stop buying them until i quit trading!whatever sellers is pricing!

why? i just dont care!

why i dont care? because i can afford it

those that care probably cant afford it!

but those are probably new traders new gamers with low backpacks!

well let them go buy some keys from the store 5 keys will cost them 10 euro top they contribute to the game we love and to the trading community with fresh keys!

after all i had to pay 15 euro to buy the game and most of those that criticize the keys rise are f2p farmers and idlers! upvote mate!

To be fair I do like staring at shiny thongs in my backpack, not keys, but I am after my tf2 life goal of obtaining a sunbeams crown.

http://puu.sh/2bMkw --> shiny thongs, ehh I didn't know you were into that kind of stuff.

I have one key in my backpack to just stare at, because it's shiny :D

Not even gonna edit my comment.

sunbeams crown rules mate i hope you get it soon!!!!

i see the point you are making at your comments!ageed!what ppl dont seem to get is the ierarchy in tf2 of the prices!pile of scraps>pile of recs> pile of refs> pile of keys>pile of promos>

that is trading in a nutshell!

OR OR OR. YOU BUY ITEMS, WHICH IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE TRADING SYSTEM

this site is ruled for one group of people, in this group are admin and donators, the other side have common people..

i see every fucking day one new key suggestion

And their arguments are same "oh i presented a lot of proofs bla bla" but because of their suggestion the key price are insane, so o after this shit be approved the new price is gonna be 4.11 in OP and tomorrow we have new key suggestion 4-4.11 and a lots of proofs with 90125585916 links from OP and so on..

where is common sense of this people?

they didnt realize this gonna raise 1 scrap every day because of they do?only to have one shit star in their Bp.profile with excuse " oh i want to reflect the real price of market. is because of the community we do this..."

and yes imo is entire BP.tf fault because they allow this votes every day, well i´m here again tomorrow for the new sugestion 4-4,11

ridiculous

key rised on its own before bp.tf become famous.

Keys did rise before bp.tf, but they did not rise as fast as they are now. bp.tf is accelerating the price increase of keys.

I'm not going to get any more stars on my profile and I stopped caring about rep months ago when I got Major Contributor. To say that it doesn't matter that people are actively trying to buy for 4 refined is arrogant. Writing backpack.tf off as some elitist organization is both inaccurate and lazy because whether you personally like or not people are paying more for keys. Using backpack.tf as a scapegoat and outlet for your frustration does little if anything to atop it in the end.

These suggestions always make me think comments need to be more aggressively moderated, as without a doubt, there's always a wave of utterly useless whiney comments berating the suggestor, or prophesying doom.

And despite these comments being a complete waste of space, they end up with positive votes bumping them upwards. I couldn't care less about your juvenile ranting. If your comment isn't going to contribute or isn't relevant, keep it to yourself.

The Outpost rule of "no unnecessary comments" would actually be really applicable to the comment sections of key suggestions.

Its been tried (Referencing my [PSA]), but it would be too much work for the mods.....

And its ok, i don't mind all my comments, which actually explain whats happening, being hidden.

My [PSA]: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/128-psastop-the-spam/

Too much proof! UPVOTE

While we are at posting inspirational quotes Baloo, "And in that moment, I swear we were infinite."

Great book and movie by the way in case anyone hasn't read it, it's from Perks of Being a Wallflower.

But onto business. I have been buying hardly any (like 2 or 3?) at 3.88 ref and have been selling them like no tomorrow at 4.11 ref (30+). This sucks, but oh well. They're going up so fast now. This is not good :(

I read that book last year before the movie came out because I'm a hipster and whatnot. :)

That poem was so moving.

tf2finance.don't lie! :)

you sick bastard

You hurt my feels. Oh the feels I get from my feels being hurt. It feels terrible.

Seriously thanks for the helpful comment. Everyone in those link are buyers. I didn't even focus on the sellers.

your comment got downvoted to hell, seems you're not a fan favorite atm

Oh no, I guess that means you should downvote this suggestion simply because of that. I could honestly care less about these people that don't voice their opinion and simply use the dislike button as their only line of defense when they don't want a suggestion to pass.

I don't want to vote on this one because I know I'd upvote and I don't want to vote for a cause I don't believe in

When this price gets accepted, I'm going to remember the day keys were priced at 2.33 and shed a tear... WHY VALVE!!!! WHY MUST YOU RELEASE SEVERAL NEW CRATES AT THE SAME TIME!!!

-the gaben must be avenged

it is really not because of "several new crates at the same time" that make key rises price in metal.

it is because people realize how useless metal is because beside crafting 3 ref (not even efficient when you can buy two hats at 2.66) for a hat or misc.

I see what you are saying... honestly I think there is many reasons why...

woa there, no need for such rage and accusations when baloo shown proof that there are buyers at 4 ref and he doesn't do it for his own gain.

He's right though. If backpack went offline for a month, key prices wouldn't rise at all. Long, you know that

even if it was for his own gain if the proofs where sufficient the upvote is required

Someone's mad that he can't buy keys anymore.

Care to explain how this is ruining the TF2 Economy?

I'd love to hear this one....

Simple: this turns it into a Bull market. In a Bull market, people make gargantuan profits by upping the prices of their item and selling it for profit. The makes currency less stable and blows up a big bubble in the economy. Eventually, the bubble gets too big. It pops. The whole market feels the shock wave, and the market crashes. This happened over the course of the 1920s where people kept raising stock prices to the point where they sold huge quantities of them, and caused the global stock market to crash.

Please refrain from using such language and attacking other users. If you have comments or criticism, you may say them with etiquette.

Sorry and noted. I tend to swear a lot.

Careful there big boy. It's my gain too!

1 key in 1 year = Bill's Hat

Bills stayed 8 keys all the time key price doubled. (And yeah I know this could be sarcastic, just wanted to say that.)

1 bill in a year=8 keys=80 ref

holy shit just stop it!!!

your first link for 4 ref is invalid... he's buying for 3.66 each...

If the keys price is rising, dont you think the price of items for keys should be reduced when now is 4 refine?!!! this is way too unacceptable if both the items price to keys and keys price to Refine is rising together... just think about it ...

Finance is sitting at 3.88

Currently 3.91 as of 3 hours after your post. :P Crazy how fast it changes!

Can't wait for tomorrow.

"New: 3.88 - 4.11 ref"

day after tomorrow when the sun shines the prices would be 4 - 4.22 ref :)

This is one hell of a never-ending circlejerk. Downvote.

Well, another key suggestion. Another price rise... At one point, you are reflecting the prices on the market, so you are the real trading guide. What you do is right. BUT, you are aslo helping to inflate market and you are giving reason for sellers to add 0.11 ref for overy high - end key price, because high end is not enough for them. Why don´t you stop for the moment, for example - 1 month, increasing keys price and the market should stable. It is still better to have key for 4 ref pain price than have collapsed TF2 market. Think abou it, if you don´t look for profit for yourself, then you should logically do it. Proof? Come on, you really can´t use logic? Some things must be solved with logic and clear mind, and this is an example. If you don´t agree with me, fine. But 2 weeks later the price will be at least 4.22 ref. It´s time to do something right! Btw, I´m downoting this.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8993344

Bought 7. Downvote. Still successful buy for 3.77

I don't know. Look at this photo. [url]http://puu.sh/2bQwD[/url]. I got 2 buyers at 3.88. Notice how they're seperated by only 3 minutes apart. That means it was high in demand. (Also on a side note, I traded with cleverpun :D.)

what if you managed to buy 2 keys for 3.77

some traders need to purchase more than 10 keys at a time and the offer is lower than the demand!that is why they are willing to spend 1 more scrap to buy the key!

as long as there are ppl that dont give a damn about scraps keys will rise and rise and rise!

the only ppl that are hurt from that are the same as above,

when there was a time they could buy 2 keys for 5 ref now they will need 8 ref!

but still the keys rise because of the demand they are creating!

lmao @ the walls of text

Personally I upvoted it. I really hate how key prices are going up. There's both wrong and right here since these suggestions might fuel keys going up and the fact that every trader need keys. Keys are currency that almost everyone uses. Like owning a car and having to pay for gas. Gas prices were cheap and then it shot up and right now it's still high. Don't get me wrong. I hate how key prices are raising and raising. But if people are still actually buying them then who's fault is it? I'm with the 95% traders here that prices go up while the picture with over $300 backpacks don't really care. Just my opinion and why some people should understand.

Unfortunately for us, as long as key sellers decide to keep selling above bp.tf and spreadsheet prices, and key buyers continue to buy them at these exorbitant prices, these rises in price will continue.

Also, as much as we don't like it, and as much as it is contributing to rising key prices, bp.tf IS reflecting what people are buying and selling keys at. Even if the prices only last a day or so.

Meanwhile on stats.tf.

http://stats.tf/item/5002/Refined-Metal 1,225,750

http://stats.tf/item/5021/Mann-Co.-Supply-Crate-Key 472,691

~2,59. Even lower than past 4 weeks.

You should use that to make a suggestion.

One suggestion per day enough for me.

It's not even technically true :3 You forgot to include rec and scrap. I admit, even when you put them in, it's not 4 ref, but there are other factors at play here.

go figure!you only need 472.691 keys to own all the ref out there!!and then you can set to whatever price you like!oh wait there will be no buyer with enough ref to sell to!well that would be cool to see happening!

Every time this site raises the price of keys sellers just raise the price of their keys a little. Just saying.

Traders are tring to make profit. It will eventually become a cycle until buyers disagree that wont happen until they dont buy... So now why do you think buyers are buying keys for 4 ref because they know it will rise to 4.11 or maybe 4.22 in the future so they could sell back to earn some profits 0.11 or 0.22 =).

Update: I dont think theres anymore key sellers for 3.88 refined.I just checked the trade sites like bazaar and tf2outpost!! Currently theres alot of them selling at 4 to 4.11 refined.

I know I've posted this before... but I feel I need to do so again

People keep on raising key prices because outpost traders sell at 1 scrap above upper limit. They say it reflects the market.

Here's a thought. People like to raise the price of a hat scraps above 1.33, or a scrap above the ticket price of 1.88. Pretty much everything on outpost sells a bit more than what is shown on backpack.tf.

If you people are so keen on raising key prices, why not do the same for all hats? Lets just make craft hats 1.44 or 1.55. Or increase the price of miscs and action items. Or raise unusual prices because everyone is selling them above the suggested price. There is a LOT of "proof".

It is absolutely normal for prices to be above the one shown on backpack.tf, and it does not mean keys should get a price increase. For example 4.11 is a profitable price, NOT A STANDARD. There are people selling for 4.11 BUT THEY STILL HAVE 4 REF IN MIND. If the price does not increase, no one would put up a 4.22 trade because it is highballing.

From the start, key prices should not have increased; sellers want 1 scrap more BECAUSE IT MAKES PROFIT, NOT BECAUSE THE HIGHER PRICE IS THE TRUE MARKET PRICE, and it cannot be considered as INFLATION. But since suggesters want it that way, the economy is now very unhealthy.

Furthermore this phenomenon only applies to keys, but if we follow the "price should increase because people are selling them 1 scrap more" logic, everything would inflate at the same rate.

But they didn't because there are far less suggestions, so i would assume the suggesters are cherry-picking keys to increase their price. If suggesters think they are "reflecting the market", then please, go increase the price of every hat available.

noone is buying hats mate everyones after for keys! when keys become a tool for reach ppl we might sell some hats in the market and noone will be able to afford higher than a bill hat keys will rise but everything else will eventually crash!

It does not matter whether people are buying hats.

I just want to question whether people selling keys at 1 scrap higher than the one set here should imply that KEYS ARE INFLATING.

If so, why doesn't this apply to all other items, seeing people on outpost also highball-sell a bit?

If not, the keys shouldn't increase in the first place/

Want to stabilize key prices? Make Outpost ban anyone that sells keys for 3 ref or more. It'll never happen though. If Outpost is a big part of the community then wonder what happens then.

Or, we could just have price sheets that don't update prices more than once a week, if that.

It's just that people are lazy to buy keys so they go on outpost and arsed to buy the keys for a higher price than the range. Demand for keys is always high so the prices are always rising.

on August 15, the keys price will be 8 ref.

Well then it's a good thing its March.

yay key suggestion AGAIN, just make a suggestion for keys 10000000 ref and kill yourself

well by now I only buy for metal and sell for keys. otherwise getting keys for a decent price is impossible. at some point the mods of this site should think about implementing a minimum amount of time between price suggestions for the same items or the requirement to have proof from at least 2 sources. and hey what's so bad if the price of keys would be one ***ing scrap off?? the end of the world?

OMGAWD YAS!!!

plx keep putting this price up so I can make massiv profitz!!!

Worst troll ever.

PEOPLE ARE GOING TO WANT TO SELL THEM FOR A BIT MORE HOW ELSE ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE PROFIT STOP DESTROYING THE MARKET!

All my links are buyers.

this isnt just aimed at you its aimed at everyone and ik im just making a valid point

>Shouts in all caps

>Doesn't use punctuation

>Claims backpack.tf is destroying the market

>Claims it's a valid point

Seems legit.

Becuase its stupid and annyoing

Why would i use punctuation on a site to do with a game

Because it is

I don't even....

People can suggest prices on what they thinks reasonable.

People will always try and sell no matter what item it is for a few scrap more than its value thats how you make profit in this game.

So somewhere the line has to be drawn between sensible prices and stupid suggestions like this key thing if it carrys on like this we will be at 10 ref for keys within the next 2 months.

That sir is bull****

I still don't even....

To quote myself: "All my links are buyers."

Say hello to 4.33 price. Pple will rise price on OP and keys will cost 4.33 thats idiotycal ;/

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9048202 I think hes serious.

Haha

F&^k It im going to make a trade SELLING 1 KEY FOR @ KEYS

Sell your keys for ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)!!!!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9049627 :P

I actually liked it until he said "YES IS TROLL TRADE", it just killed it for me ;__;

Sorry i will delete it :)

I dont want kill any1, im to young to go to prison XD

Im too old be too young to go to ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

I don´t really know why you can vote item prices on this site; it´s a fact that, even if this has more negative votes (like have just been on last key voting and many more items), it will be approved by the same group of people who suggest the prices...

I can't accept a price.

I wrote "by the same group of people", not "by Baloo".

Btw: "excusatio non petita, accusatio manifesta".

It is true that you did write that suggestion aren't accepted by Baloo, but by saying suggestions are accepted by the same group of people who suggest them would imply that I am a moderator to which I say I am not. Unless of course you'd like to expound on what this "group of people" is that you are referring to.

Plz stop making the price even higher because you are all making those poor guys can't buy keys so plz STOP making the PRICE HIGHER PLZ

Even if I close this all these buyers will still remain.

If the key's price are still going more higher, people will buy keys in the store instead just trading and it will make keys more lower so there will be a corruption between keys

I don't even...

not corruption between keys! D:

Finance shows that keys are rapidly increasing in refined amounts...

If this pattern keeps up bad things will happen.

Inevitably keys will go down again, but if this doesn't pass, nothing will change. If it does pass, then it will just make people want to sell for a bit more.

People already sell at 4.11, and who knows what's going to happen.

I hope you actually didn't make that.

My 5 year old cousin can use paint better than that.

I know right? :D

Actually, it's pretty horrible.

Gonna change it to make it useful and not spam.

Also, the image got messed up some how >.<

I didn't save the right one and the one that showed up was a horrible copy/past image.

My fault for burning your eyes.

Someone with a brain

2 late 4 hate?

Nevermind http://i.imgur.com/O1zDJ.gif

Srsly, I was trying to buy 3 Keys for 4 Ref each yesterday and it took me 10 minutes to get a seller which wasn't out of stock and/or offline.

I didn't even try to get Keys for 3.77 or 3.88, it would take years :<

After reading almost all the comments this one says it all in just a few sentences.

"What if... what if, now follow me for one moment, we ponder the possibility that these people only charge 4.11... because backpack.tf makes a price change... what if... we consider that rather than reacting to the market, that the market instead reacts to backpack... what if then every ounce of proof for a new suggestion is itself a reflex from a previous suggestion..."

That's backpack.tf key pricing in a nutshell..

I'd also like to add that the people trying to defend current key prices with tf2finance and outpost.. all your arguments go out the door when you consider the above...

Here I'll make it easy.. "the market instead reacts to backpack.tf"..

Of course it does. You cannot argue that..

The market reacts to backpack.tf, but keys buyers do not get fed up with keys prices and stop buying. A lot just close their trades and open new ones buying at a higher price.

How exactly do you plan to stop this beast in motion?

I think the keys are rising because of greed and cash-in from steam comm. market.

The best reason is people don't care about TF2 anymore like in 2010 & 2011 and the record major updates. I see many people quit TF2 or just idle.

Valve hired a economist to figure out what was going on and not make the same mistakes for Dota 2 (not a metal farm grindfest).

Valve has layed of key staff in SFM, there staff is low for TF2 while increasing it for Dota 2.

How many people are actually playing TF2 (not idle).

I guess it would go up to 4.33 to 4.66 but 5 refined is breaking point makes high value misc's value drop too much.

[url]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvlx5dTcmY1qlp54m.jpg[/url]

Downvote

this counter proof is insanely good

Yo? 4 ref? (this is spam...)

Might as well tighten up the range. Upvote

I think people finally noticed paypal. when keys were 2.66refined anyone could get theirs with paypal and resell for a profit that most of the people on the market did not notice. Therefore im staying neutral. no upvoting or downvoting for me.

Edit: Most of these downvotes arent based on proof but their own opinions, which is a bummer, also tf2 is going slowly to die out, Dota 2 is starting to become more better now that valve even hired an economist to make sure they dont make the same mistakes like here. Dota 2 economy>TF2 Economy. Yeah i said it. I stopped buying keys when they went over 3refined. Why not boycott it instead of buying them for prices you hate so much?

The key market is going to go to hell at this rate.

The only way i can ever see the market recovering is when less knowledgeable buyers final get the idea that 5 ref per key is ridiculous. Unfortunately, they may never wise up so the end result is more continued raise of prices.

My solution: Buy Bill's and watch from the sidelines. And when key prices fall, watch all the morons who paid 5 ref per key realize that was stupid.

As much as I hate to say this I've seen a few more trades posted for buying keys at 4 ref :/ It appears keys are continuing their unfortunate spike...

greedy sellers have raised price once the key price on backpack.tf was changed into the 3.77-4.

but the fact remains that people are buying keys at 4 ref each. If people stopped buying them for 4 ref, then it wouldn't matter what price people said keys were worth. What we need is something to dislodge the price of keys. For example if Valve announced a sale on keys, they would stable off a bit

I hear you're statement often.. "people are buying for that much" Which may be true.. BUT..

People are probably only buying for that high because of the panic made by the circle of websites which now controls the economy..

The same economy that the owners and their friends all trade for profit in, Not saying they are directly involved.. anyways there's nothing I can prove or want to prove.. but it really doesn't look too good from where I'm sitting. Maybe it's that conspiracy theorist coming out in me.. and tbh it really wouldn't surprise me if it was planned in some way.

Sale on keys you say?.. steam market made keys cheaper than the store already.. and some people will say it was the steam market that caused this (which is also a possibility as I can see how it could do that, but I doubt it. More than likely the circle of websites).

oke now seriously ? if this got accepted another dude will suggest after 1 second that keys must become 4-4.33 , this is becoming stupid. Keys must be priced at a single value (4 ref ex) and not changed even though highballers sell at 4.33, they must have a damn fixed price and not changed because a bunch of outposters sell for that redicilious price

Wellp.

Since the last one got updated a day ago, I'll start on the 4-4.33 suggestion.

disliked to death in T-minus 1 hour.

LOL ill get one ready for 4.33-4.66 for 2 days time then

Not long now will be at 10 ref

YOU CANT JUST TAKE THESE, there ARE STILL BUYERS, SELLERS, AND TRADES THAT ARENT REPRESENTED

I reply here since I can't comment on your statement above.

"Oh my god, why are all you admins like this. If you simply stopped having currency voting, and took the average prices of keys by themselves, there wouldnt have been so much inflation"

I'm not an admin. So after months we should suddenly stop currency voting (actually there is nothing wrong with ref and buds imo atm). Fine, I'd like to see that too for at least 1 week or so too. What do you mean with the average price of keys?

And btw what I am like? I just said the truth, that this economy is a free market since Valve hardly do anything about it.

Ok, so tell me this.

If i can find 20 people buying a fast learner for 10 ref, and there constantly buying, should the price not be araised?

No it shouldnt. This is what people dont understand. some people will pay more, and those are the minority. however most people dont, what im saying is that the fact that this sheet sets ranges too fast and too high. Currency shouldnt be able to be voted upon, Its not based upon need, since there are 50k- of them.the only reason people buy at this price is because of this site, which raises prices based on 20 of the thousands of key sales there are in a few days. Its ridicoulous

Tf2 finance tracks ALL key sales.....

So, you want proof based on all sales, and ecen thats not enough.... Also its not a minirity, most people are paying 3.88+

why did you make the price of the keys so hing????it was 2.66 ref and now 3.77????it was perfect 3.00...you need 36 refs for a bils...in the past you need just 26!!!!!i don't wana blame but the keys are to hig!!

bloo, pls, stahp ti. Thynk of te childrn. lol

I actually wonder what's gonna happen if they're 6ref+ ?

o I know already: then sellers' gonna sell at 6.22-6.33, then the price gets 6.33, then sellers sell at 6.44-6.66 then the price becomes 6.55...

and that's the end of this tutorial on: how to screw the tf2 economy.

this post is getting weird

Fwed y u meespul man nam? ;_;

Anyways I truly thought keys would stop around 3.66 refined, but apparently some people just can't get enough of keys, so we may actually see key prices break 6 refined if people are willing to buy keys for top dollar everytime. I remember when people use to call 3.66 refined highballers, but now people are saying they bought some at 3.77 refined and others are calling them lucky. Its an ever changing world in which we live in.

it has to stop some day? I mean who would ever give more than 4 ref for a key? o_O I think 3+ is too much already ><

anyway, I'm gonna buy some keys later and sell them at 3 ref each lol

Well, keys will eventually reach an equilibrium point and stabilize (which needs to happen ASAP)....

That being said, selling keys for 3 ref is incredibly stupid since the buyer is going to try and sell them for 4+ ref anyway....

Eventually made in 50 years time when there 100000 ref

i guess it`s time to drop ref below 0.20 $

after all its useless!

makes me wanna hack into tf2 finance and make it zero, yes infinite keys :D

I'd like to ask why tf2finance doesn't have/track key price in USD?

Considering they are tracking the price of buds in terms of USD.

I just don't understand..

If bud price has been worked out via countless sourceop forum sellers/buyers

Why wasn't the key to USD worked out the same way at the same time?

What are they waiting for?

That's a few questions I'd like answered if anyone knows the answers.. thanks

they are waiting for long to give the keys an stable price i guess

Im sure that day will never come

Its still in beta, anyways tf2finance is not my whole proof, it is the basis as to why this suggestion was made in the first place.

That doesn't really answer my question.. when it's out of beta they will add the key price..?

Idk just seems very weird that bud to usd is there but keys aren't.

l also commented 3 hours ago hopefully you read that one aswell. I'm on my phone now so I can't copy and paste it, anyways it's above the purple name "alex from security" should be easy to find.

Someone make a "keys. wat r u doing. keys. STAHP!" meme

Your wish is my command.

[url]http://imgur.com/NFijva5[/url]

I was selling 1 key for 4 ref, and 3 people added me instantly o.o

I just spent 5 minutes reading through the comments, its just hate and anger, come on guys we're all traders here lets be civil.

Useless post :p

I guess people (like you) just like to thrash at there keyboards in anger and frantically click the dislike button even though they know im right :P

BTM | Mrthesologamer: i replied to ur comment as a joke :p

Whyunoconnect!?: I saw

BTM | Mrthesologamer: and disliked it :)

Whyunoconnect!?: WELL FUCK YOU THEN :P

BTM | Mrthesologamer: Lol

BTM | Mrthesologamer: anyway bbl

At least keys will never go above 249 ref! *laughing, then crying*

Need to add a rule to the list rules of Outpost

Keys may not sell more than 2.66 ref, one that will sell more is get a permanent Ban

#yolo

bp value go up pls i upvoted

ok now seriously if this got accepted someone will make a suggestion after 1 micro second that hur dur people now hur sell at 4.33 hurrr ,,, keys must reach a point where they become stable in price no matter what people sell for ,, this is really getting annoying

And they will eventually reach an equilibrium point, but backpack.tf is NOT affecting that......

Its just a matter of time before buyers stop buying keys and the price will finally stabilize, but for now, prices are still rising.

people will keep buying because they will say hur keys will get higher and we will get more profit hurrr

No, at some point keys will stop rising, its just a matter of time before the supply=the demand.

Just look at Earbuds, they were stable at 13 keys for the longest time, and then they started to rise, and reached 29 keys, then they crashed down to 18 keys and rose back up to 27 keys, So, keys will stop rising just like buds did.

but if everybody place some stupid suggestions and got accepted then meh

1, this isnt a stupid suggestion its completely accurate.

2, bp.tf is Not creating the increase.

3, why would keys be any different than buds? At some poiny theyll stop rising.

Something u have to keep in mind, keys had settled around 2.66 when op had about 40,000 users, and its now up to 300,000. So one reason keys are going uo so quickly is bc tgey havent increased in over 1 year.....so theres a lot of ground to catch up.

i hope so

lol. Buying for 4.11 ref: http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9206745

And, of course, a ton buying at 4 ref. No need to put those links up.

Was it 2 days ago when keys were still 3.66 - 3.88? and now they are 3.77 - 4.00 and 3.88 - 4.00 suggested? Man this is crazy, Valve has to make Key untradable or this won't stop.

Could anyone explain me, how are the keys "rising" so fast?

I mean, now. Not at halloween, or when the steam market came out.. (no one cares about those events anymore, it's already March.)

If it is about the high demand of keys, then why the $ prices didn't rise from 1.3$ to ~1.5$ or even more? If the DEMAND cause the key-ref inflation, then the demand have to inflate the $ prices too, since the higher demand affect the paypal $ trades aswell. And the price of keys in $ doesn't have anything to do with refs, only the higher demand can rise the $ price of keys.

So if im right, it is NOT caused by the demand.

Then what? It is about the dropping ref price? How? Why?

It seems (at least to me) the population of TF2 is in shrinking. (Last time when it increased, was maybe when the MvM came out, and only for a little time.) So I don't think the number of refs in-game increased so much to rise the key prices 1.33 ref in ~3 months. While we all know it has been increased only a rec (2.33-2.66) before halloween, in ~a year.

Also as Senio posted it 8 hours ago:

"Meanwhile on stats.tf.

http://stats.tf/item/5002/Refined-Metal 1,225,750

http://stats.tf/item/5021/Mann-Co.-Supply-Crate-Key 472,691

~2,59. Even lower than past 4 weeks."

Now it is 1,226,781 refs, and 474,602 keys. (So +~2000 keys and +~1000 refs in 8 hours, more keys than refs with a 1 key : 2.58 ref ratio. If I add the recs and scraps too it is still only about 3.41-3.42.)

I would like to see an experiment, what would happen on the market if the backpack.tf admins would set the key-ref price to 3-3.33 or 3.11-3.44 (or lower) for an (X) amount of time. It could show if bp.tf really inflate the key-ref price, and dictate the market, or not.

(In my opinion it does, but so many people try to deny it, and defend this site. While it is clear, keys started to rise so(/this) much since bp.tf got more popular.)

For the average trader, backpack.tf is the new spreadsheet, the new trading bible. No matter how much do you want to deny it, it is a fact now, and you have to deal with it.

It seems pretty obvious that backpack.tf does not dictate the market. If it did, why would we have price suggestions at all? How would prices change? The reason keys are going up is because everyone wants to make a profit by buying keys at the current price and trying to resell them for one scrap higher. They can do this safely because they predict price rises in advance.

Why Backpack.tf needs to stop:

-Key prices are too high now. Remember when keys were 2.33? Glory days.

-Rep whores. This is obviously another rep whore. You can tell because he has a lot of rep.

-TF2Outpost is not a trading site. It is all run by several hackers looking to manipulate prices by making every single trade in order to become wealthy on trade servers.

-Anyone who buys for 4 ref is crazy. I only buy for 2.33.

-None of us will be able to afford keys.

-People who suggest key prices are in cahoots with Brad Pitt, another hacker looking to get rich off of the poor by steadily increasing his bp value without trading.

-Unless /every single/ person sells in this range, this range is inaccurate.

-Scrap.tf does not ever actually have any keys to sell. That is why they are always out of stock.

-tf2finance, if you look closely, has listed keys as 3.93. When viewed from a different perspective, this reads 666.

-We can't just consider what people are buying for. We have to consider what people are selling for.

-Key values in metal should be based on the USD value of metal.

-These "proofs" do not include prices on Valve CTF servers.

-Metal should be worth more than keys, not vice versa.

Nuff said.

>Key prices are too high? how is that bp.tfs fault? also....keys were lower then they should've been for quite some time.

>What exactly does Rep get you? please explain...

>OP is a trading site run by hackers....Dafuq? the majority of key trading takes place on OP....(and the majority of trades--excluding weapon trades)

>No one cares if you can afford keys...that has nothing to do with anything.

>Plenty of people buy at 4 ref, i personally buy at 3.88

>You do realize that Brad spends his own time to create this website (and makes nothing out of it..)...All hes trying to do is help traders...

>Most people do sell in this range...(Hence why TF2 finance, which tracks ALL key sales, is at 3.92~)

>Plenty of people are selling for 4+ Ref...i've personally sold over 100 keys at 4 ref...and im not even a large key seller...

>Scrap.tf is always out of stock because noone is selling keys for 3.88...Duhh

>Keys value in metal IS based on Ref $ value, but you have to rember, keys are in more demand than ref, so there not perfectly synced prize wise. (27 keys is more expensive than 1 bud $-wise)

>Valve game servers aren't trade servers and don't mean anything....i can go buy a burning team captain for 20 Ref on a valve server...

>Why should metal be more than keys? there is an infiinte supply of metal, and noone really wants metal..

For more info:

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/249-the-cause-of-rising-key-prices/

Satire, Awesome McCoolName? Maybe someone should go back to school.

Ho...wa...whha...

i don't even....

kids these days

oh my god my sides

I remember when keys were 2.55... then I remember watching it rise past 3 ref around halloween, I thought people were being rediculous..

stop with doing the price of keys up cause it is allready to high cause if you open a crate you almost have got lose. This is bad for people who just like the game. So please stop with letting the prices going up.

People who like the game, the actual game with objective maps, do not need keys to play it. I am not by myself raising key prices, it is the people that I trying with a passion to buy keys for higher and higher in order to buy as many as they can before they run out at that amount. It is a vicious cycle.

unboxing almost always results in a loss....

And, people who just like to play the game, dont usually unbox, and when they do they usually buy the keys from the store anyway...

They do it mostly for the chance of an unusual, malikeet who unboxes BUTTTONS buys his from steam market. i also unbox any crate i find because i find it fun.

Dudes... Why not pricing keys at 1 bud already??? Because if you guys keep this pace up, that is what will happen. So, we should go for it already! :D ... *facepalm*

Like how this comment gets disliked for telling the truth XD

Every four days, the price changes, I swear this fucking site is ran by TF2G

Wh-what? What do you mean by TF2G? TF2 Gallery?

tf2GREED? theres lots of that here.

I'm actually getting the feeling that we might be close to a firm price right now

That sounds pretty true in my ears, for long when keys were 2.66refined anyone with paypal made a HUGE profit. Now they are starting to stabilize with paypal sellers prices. hopefully 4-5refined will be its stable zone.

just passing by the 4th key vote on this week

another free downvote that will pass even if its voted 1% positive. Seriously admins, whats wrong

Everything about bp.tf

So, everyone knows tf2finance.

Have you noticed the little chart below the main chart? That's the price of earbuds throughout TF2 history. Go find the time between February and March of 2012. A sharp decline in price! From 26 to 19 keys, over a quarter of price decrease! Sure, the price of buds is back to 27 keys now, but there was a year for it to rise slowly. That's the burst of a bubble.

We all know that the drop system, by giving every person ~10 weapons each week, increases the metal supply with no increase of demand, therefore lowering the value to the metal. In a way, metal is slowly becoming worthless. Keys get consumed and turned into stranges and other uncrated items, while many forget the purpose of metal is to craft, therefore keeping metal in the market with no decrease in supply. Keys come in and out of the market, while metal comes every day with little decrease in number. That contributes greatly to the decline of metal value,

A bubble burst refers to when people realize that they have been paying over an item's intrinsic value. There will always be demand for keys, yes, but will you be willing to pay 5 refined for a key? 6 refined? 7? When the day people no longer want to pay the high price for keys, the bubble bursts. People expect the key prices to rise with no bound, suddenly finding themselves without any buyers, either because no one is willing to pay the price or unable to afford the high prices. Keys are supposed to be a currency, and not a luxury item. Right now, the key prices are following what is called the "Greater fool theory", which means people know that keys aren't worth above, say, 3 ref, but is still willing to pay 3.66 for one because they know there will be a "greater fool" out there that pays 4 ref for their key. The cycle only ends when the seller fails to find the fool. Right now, there are a lot of fools running about and they unknowingly contributed to the rise of key prices. We can only wait until the day people start realizing that they are overpaying and refuse to pay more. That's how the bubble bursts. It will be damaging to the economy, yes, but less damaging then unbounded growth.

tl;dr Stop buying keys at ridiculous prices

Can the keys be left alone for a month or even a week at least?

But, but if we dont raise key prices, keys will stabalize and people might stop asking for that extra scrap!! That is ABSOLUTELY unacceptable!

Does anyone have any view on what price keys may end up stabilising at? I'd be quite interested to hear what people think. I mean, surely it can't rise in price indefinitely? I thought 4 ref may be the equilibrium point, but it looks like we're going to shoot past that too.

I have lots of keys (have never done the "buy for 3.66 sell for 3.77" thing though) and even I think this is starting to get a bit nuts. That's not a criticism of the suggestion, the evidence is obviously there, but I haven't bought keys since they were 2.66 refined (3 ref was too high a price for me) and I find it crazy that people are willing to pay 4 ref.

Why not bump it up to 2 keys for a key! Eh?

I really don't get why they have to go up, i mean I've heard people saying "it's because keys are just being recycled back into the system! No new ones are being bought!"

But really there's tons of keys out there :l

There is no shortage either.

2000 keys bought in the last fes days

No man, just no

key prices are ridiculous..

They cant go up forever, you know.