Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4–4.22 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

474 votes up

743 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed Tue, 19 Mar 13 01:54:53 +0000 by SirJjjon.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Voting on key prices needs to be changed because right now not only is it pointless to vote but it's also giving the site bad reputation!

Everywhere I look backpack has become SPREADSHEET but worse, all I hear are rants on how trash this site is, even though it isn't true.

----------------------

Case in point: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51453abdba2536456c000002

Suggestion to lower price by .05 (1 weapon)

947 positive (78%)

1319 +

372 -

Closed

YOUR VOTE DOESN'T MATTER!

----------------------

1) Vote to lower keys

2) Everyone upvotes because they want cheap keys

3) Admins close vote because there's much more proof against than for the suggestion

4) Everyone complains that the site is corrupt because admins denied a vote which clearly had more votes for than against

1) Vote to raise keys

2) Everyone downvotes because they want cheap keys

3) Admins approve because there is good supporting proof and many people already paying/trading above current value

4) Everyone complains that the site is corrupt because admins approved a vote which clearly had more votes against than for

There are several flaws with the site currently that need adjustment.

1) Item USD pricing

2) Key, Bill, Bud, Max and several other currency items Voting/suggestion method

3) Policy for time limit between suggestions and when items become tradeable

(we don't need 50 suggestions from 5 keys - 3 buds every time something new hit's the market)

4) A definitive stance on whether or not tf2finance can be used as proof because if it is proof why not just directly link key prices to tf2finances graph (of course with a safety net of 1-2 days lag so price manipulation due to mass trades couldn't occur)

$50 says this will will end with massive -rep (and probably pass)

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/5021/6/0

BUYERS ONLY

4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9384140

4.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9359057

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9345463

4.16

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350500 - 1 day = 3 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9180831

4.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9301076

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9180831

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9266748

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9355877

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9383539

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9379835

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9264834

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9165246

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9332507

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9342004

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9368123

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9212023

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9262826

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369579

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9328114

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8848139

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9354889

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9164282

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9365332

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9335359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8746573

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350500

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9263359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9356015

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9379835

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9066341

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9220650

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9379929

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9372522

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9193424

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9378833

http://scrap.tf/keys

http://scrap.tf/stats

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - hovering close to 4.11 for days

Why sell for less then 4.11 when there are buyers on every page of outpost scrapping at your heels to get keys for 4.11 ?

Key votes in a shellnut: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/195-why-is-tf2finance-used-as-evidence-for-key-prices/?hl=base64#entry1560

http://youtu.be/2Oy6DwHAi70?t=3s - Let the hate flow through you

Agreed in a sense. This site needs to earn it rep back by shutting(hiding) down it's key price for a while. Let the traders decide the prices for some time and let's see which direction the key prices go after a week of no price.

http://d22zlbw5ff7yk5.cloudfront.net/images/cm-36243-050bffabb05dbf.gif

Agreed to the MAX, this will probably stop keys rising and possible fall as "but backpack.tf has a {x} amount of refs per key!"

Occupy Outpost

i said this 3 weeks ago :)

The price of keys at this site hasn't changed in over 5 days.

is that a record?

By 5 days. :P

of we can make it to a week, yall buttheads get a cake.

the cake is a lie! Burn the heretic!

I said this on the forum a week ago. Nobody listened to me. >:/

Amen brother...

is this a suggestion or a psa? Most/All the issues you brought up have been or are currently being discussed in the forums.

It is both. The suggestion is legit and has what I would consider moderate to good proof but it comes with a message as well.

Edit: I haven't used the forums so I wouldn't know what's been discussed there recently.

I have a feeling your message of bp.tf's current faults will only damage the site's reputation further, but the points are legitimate. Brad has a lot on his plate.

I this vote damages the site's reputation, so be it, it is not my intention. I'm sure Brad is a busy man and I have massive respect for him and all of the admins of this site. As long as I'm trading I'll always be a supportive user of this site but quite frankly something has to change, and it would be best if that change happened sooner rather then later.

I understand that you aren't attacking the site and I agree with your points. I've just noticed that the pitchforks are drawn quickly in key suggestion threads and telling people that their vote doesn't matter will only make them want blood.

Anyway, here's a 4.22 buyer for you: http://redd.it/1aj2j7, and another 4.11: http://redd.it/1ai1ee

By the way: vincent has a WHOLE LIST of buyers at 4.11 on the forums

Check why hasnt this suggestion been closed yet

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/503-why-is-the-key-suggestion-still-up/?p=4872

I got you.

And I just figured out where the link was.

Oh well

Thanks, threw that in the OP while I can still edit.

90% of your buyers buy at 4.11 ref so just tell me why you put the range at 4-4.22.

4 people buying at more than the actual range doesn't modify the actual range, right ?

Because it won't let me suggest 4-4.16 and 4-4.22 is more accurate then simply 4.11 . This suggestion is hinting that selling at 4 is simply a charity when there are this many people paying more. For example if you have a lot of keys you can gat 4.11 a piece from scrap.tf right now and that's a 24/7 no risk automated system, why would anyone not do that when given the opportunity?

The average key flipper is buying at 4 and then trying to sell between 4.11 and 4.33

Yeah main point 4-4.22 averages to 4.11

Allright, thanks for the explanation

Changing my downvote in an upvote

Too much buyers at current high end means the high end needs a bump for any suggestion. You should see the legions of sucessful sellers out there at 4.33 or 4.44!

I wake up to see yet another key price suggestion.

I have already shown in other key price suggestions that that trade proof can be manipulated easily.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350515

That transaction is fabricated because I own both accounts. I could dress it up more to make it look even more legit. I actually own 10 accounts but most are ftp.

I AM CALLING FOR A HALT TO ALL PRICE CHANGES, AND A RETURN TO 4 REF PER KEY PRICE, UNTIL ALL FACTORS OF THIS PHENOMENA CAN BE INVESTIGATED AND THE ROOT CAUSES CAN BE UNDERSTOOD BEFORE WE DECIDE WHAT AN EXCEPTED PRICE SHOULD BE.

Further discussion can be made on the forums.

Congratulations. I AM CALLING FOR PRICE VOTING TO CONTINUE AS IS DUE TO MY ABILITY TO TALK IN ALL CAPS.

Saying things loudly does nothing. If backpack.tf did indeed halt voting, then that is price manipulation and would be called as such. There are more repercussions to a single action than just "Let's try this".

Guess what raising the price is considered? PRICE MANIPULATION!

How so? If proof is given, and it is adequate, and it reflects the market trends.... I CAN TALK IN CAPS TOO! It's not price manipulation. Do they immediately profit from it? Do they have some form of ensuring profiteering on a mass scale? If not, then not manipulation. Manipulation would be changing the price to reflect a price that people do not pay, such as Keys for 5 ref or something. Not happening here. Feedback loop? Yes. All caps? Yes. Shitty economics ideas being thrown around by people who have no idea what they're doing? Yes.

I personally have done AP Micro and Macro Econ, and am doing a self study of applied economics right now, hence my confidence in my statements. What is the support for your statements?

As oculus has clearly shown, there is no one buying keys at the suggested high end, and only a few sold in the current high end of 4.11.

Wanna bet? http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9361056

I've got 50ish refined in stock. If you think you can buy keys for lower, come trade with me. You'll make some profit. Heck, I don't care. The only reason I have so much refined metal is because I've been successfully selling keys for 4.33 refined.

Sorry for the caps.

My point is that all trade proof can be fraudulent. How can you say that any of the proof is adequate to justify an increase?

done, bought 3 keys for 4 ref. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9332996 (Sunday)

For some reason I can't reply to your comment below, so I'll do it here

"Sorry for the caps.

My point is that all trade proof can be fraudulent. How can you say that any of the proof is adequate to justify an increase?"

I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to poncho. He claimed that no one was buying for the suggested high end. I proved him wrong. End of story.

It takes the greater fool to keep the cycle going.

It takes the greatest fool to blame backpack.tf for "the cycle." I'm not here to argue with you. I just thought it was presumptuous of you to assume that no one was buying for the preposed high end.

And you don't look for lower prices... why?

Because it takes too long. I'm one of those despicable people who want to make profit. If I get more keys faster, I can sell more keys, and make more profit. If I bought for 4 or 4.11, I would only get maybe 1-2 keys a day. Heck, I'm not even getting that many bites at 4.22 refined.

And here I am arguing with you even though I said I wasn't going to... Darn it. You're good at flamebaiting, you know that?

I am not flamebaiting. I am noticing someone who does not have time nor patience who changes his prices because he does not have three minutes of his time to comb through the links and find a link that sells for the price that he wants.

"I am not flamebaiting. I am noticing someone who does not have time nor patience who changes his prices because he does not comb through the links and find a link that sells for the price that he wants."

Time nor patience? You're right about that.

And who says 4-4.11 refined is the price I want? Maybe I like having higher key prices. You simply have to trade in a different way. For instance, I buy keys on the steam market, sell them for refined, buy genuine items for refined, and sell the genuine items on the steam market. The more refined, the more genuine items I can buy.

And you are part of the problem For you, there is no satisfactory price for you to stick to. You always want more. And the rest of the community has to suffer due to people like you saying I WANT HIGHER KEY PRICES.

"And you are part of the problem For you, there is no satisfactory price for you to stick to. You always want more. And the rest of the community has to suffer due to people like you saying I WANT HIGHER KEY PRICES."

I don't think i'm making this clear enough for you. Let me make it as clear as I possibly can: I could not care less what key prices are. i'm still going to trade accordingly.

There. Have you got that?

I know a lost cause when I see one. To rage at me by using bold, capitalized letters with the font colored red, implying that you are screaming it at the top of your lungs in anger..

"I know a lost cause when I see one. To rage at me by using bold, capitalized letters, implying that you are screaming it at the top of your lungs."

*sigh* That was for emphasis, implying that you're simply not getting it. If it makes you feel better, It's in normal print now. The point still stands.

Counter-proof like:

BUYERS ONLY

4.33

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9384140[/url] - $ir λce Ωf $pades - Closed in less than an hour (fake trade/proof?) Last bump: 6 hours ago, 0 key, 0.11 ref, no new item

4.22

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9359057[/url] - PandaPaws - Only 1 ref in his bp!

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9345463[/url] - James[Key Banking] - Keybank/reselling thread, "As keys are bought and sold at the same price, I ask for a fee of one reclaimed on your first trade, allowing you permanent access to my Key banking service.", no new key, only 3 keys in his bp

4.16

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350500[/url] - w0lf - Your own trade

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9180831[/url] - Sayhn - no new key

4.11

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9301076[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - STEVE | RSP/Round Robin - 5 new key, 1.33 new metal

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9180831[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Sayhn - [DUPLICATED LINK]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9266748[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Pipeee - "No buying Atm" Donator, Last bump: 6 hours ago

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9355877[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Skyropio - 4.33 ref in his bp, 0 key at all, no new item

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9383539[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Among The Anima and The Animus - Last bump: 4 hours ago, no new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9379835[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Deadpool LFT - 0 new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9264834[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Josh - 0 new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9165246[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Wingardium Leviosa - 0 key in his bp

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9332507[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - ♠GASguzzler♠ - 0 new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9342004[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Sweetie Belle - 0 key at all, 1 new hat

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9368123[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Stache - 0 new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9212023[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - YN | ChiefInStaff - 0 new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9262826[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Son_I_am_Displeased - Last bump: 7 hours ago, 0 key in his bp

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369579[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - [CTS Bot] Klaus the Keybanker - Keybanker bot (Last bump: 11 minutes ago, does it allowed for bots to do autobumping?...), all of his keys/refs are new

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9328114[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Div - ok

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8848139[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Unusual Marine - Trade done, Last bump: (9 hours ago)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9354889[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - LePigeon - Trade done, Last bump: (9 hours ago)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9164282[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - TrueFire [Keybanking] - Reselling in the same thread, 0 key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9365332[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Lawl buying> g. deus specs - no new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9335359[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - lvt - 0 key in his bp

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8746573[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - A1eX1337 - NOT BUYING ATM

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350500[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Your own trade again [DUPLICATED LINK]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9263359[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Indefatigable|REALTALK - 1 new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9356015[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - OMFGSPY - Plenty of new keys, and 2 new bills (not sure what he sold)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9379835[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Deadpool LFT - [DUPLICATED LINK]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9066341[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Hatch Rawer Beryl - no new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9220650[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Naxer - only 1.66 ref in his bp (and 1 untradeable rec), reselling in the same thread, 3 keys in his bp, no new key

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9379929[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - ♔ Baloo ♔ - plenty of new ref, and keys

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9372522[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - nad019 - Trade done, Last bump: 9 hours ago, looks like an alt idler acc (20.0 hrs / 147 hrs of tf2), only binding of isaac as not f2p game. (Fake trade?)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9193424[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - -hysteRia - reselling in the same thread, 0 key in his bp

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9378833[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - erockfire22_[ShitHead] - Trade done, trade opened: 12 hours ago, last bump: 11 hours ago, 0 metal and 5 keys in his bp

"Look! tf2finance says 4.10, make a new suggestion!"

Currently = 4.09, fluctating way too much, was 4.05-07 yesterday afternoon and night (GMT+1)

Current range is fine, and the number/quality of proofs are low. Also we don't need proofs in the current range, make proofs for the new one. Downvote.

I saw that panda paws one also. I addition to that he has 18 friends. Pretty low for a big trader.

He also have 2 buying, and 2 selling thread. I guess relisting could be reported..

Evidence that you present suggest that not as many people are buying keys anymore. GEE, I WONDER WHY?

As for my link, I increased my price to 4.22 refined.

true, but I cant edit it :/

Here is where your counter proof falls through the cracks:

Saying 0 key in his bp or 0 new key proves that it is hard to get keys even at 4.11. Please explain how a key buyer who has metal and no keys and is paying backpack.tf top dollar is somehow representative of the 'fact' that keys should be lowered or stay the same?

4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9384140 - $ir λce Ωf $pades - Bought keys and unboxed (look at the IDs of his stranges, a hand full are more recent then the IDs of the metal he used to buy keys)

4.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9359057 - PandaPaws - Clearly having some success buying at 4.22 but difficulty @ selling for higher

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9345463 - James[Key Banking] - Looks like there is nice balance of demand for 4.22 if he has people selling to and buying from him at this price

4.16

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350500 - w0lf - My own trade which is above backpack.tf value, yet has only netted me 2 ads and 3 keys in 24hrs.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9180831 - Sayhn - Has been offering above backpack.tf value for 1 week and still hasn't gotten what he wanted.

4.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9066341 - [4.11 in current range] - Hatch Rawer Beryl - no new key

^^ quote from Hatch who is now buying for 4.22: "As for my link, I increased my price to 4.22 refined." ^^

New 4.22+ buy/sell proof

Buy:

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1aj2j7/h_47_ref_w_11_keys_422key/

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9361056

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9141315

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7574175

Sell:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9393688

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9389532

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9216347

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9309158

Tf2 finance is now @ 4.11 - http://tf2finance.com/keys/

I suggested this price because I can't suggest 4-4.16 and 4-4.22 is more accurate then simply 4.11 .

The average key price is up to 4.11 so regardless of many of my links being in range they are showing that it is difficult to even buy at top of the range right now for many people myself included.

This suggestion is hinting that selling keys at 4 refined is simply a charity when there are this many people paying more. A good example is if you have a lot of keys you can gat 4.11 a piece from scrap.tf right now and that's a 24/7 no risk automated system, why would anyone not do that when given the opportunity?

4-4.22 averages to 4.11

4-4.11 averages to 5.055 which no longer represents the key moving average.

Look at this graph from base64:

http://i.imgur.com/pk5OZde.png

There are too many trades taking outside of 4-4.11 to not at least consider changing the representation… I mean look people are even getting 4.44 sales.

Long218 logic, ladies and gentlemen.

Please explain, also why lump me in with long I have no connection to him whatsoever.

"Saying 0 key in his bp or 0 new key proves that it is hard to get keys even at 4.11. Please explain how a key buyer who has metal and no keys and is paying backpack.tf top dollar is somehow representative of the 'fact' that keys should be lowered or stay the same?"

FYI: with proofs, you have to prove your suggested range. You have to prove SUCCESFULL trades. If there is no proof about they did any trades, then it couldn't count as a valid proof. So probably you shoudln't link them. If you open a suggestion, it is your job to prove succesfull sellings for your range. Now you only want to change the high-end, so prove succeesfull sellings for 4.22, not 3-5 link, more like 30+. If you can't, then not suggest anything. Also, "no one cares about your opinion/theory". You know, it is backpack.tf, only proofs worth anything. [sarcasm]We don't care any rational thinking..[/sarcasm]

4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9384140 - $ir λce Ωf $pades - Bought keys and unboxed (look at the IDs of his stranges, a hand full are more recent then the IDs of the metal he used to buy keys)

Well, probably it is true. He has a lot of stranges.

4.22

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9359057[/url] - PandaPaws - "Clearly having some success buying at 4.22 but difficulty @ selling for higher"

Could you give a proof, when he got those keys, and for how much?

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9213134[/url] - PandaPaws with 4.11

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9106043[/url] - PandaPaws with 4.00

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9359057[/url] - PandaPaws with 4.22

He should be reported because of relisting..

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9345463[/url] - James[Key Banking] - Looks like there is nice balance of demand for 4.22 if he has people selling to and buying from him at this price

I didn't count it, since people have to pay 1 rec to do any trade. (keybankers..)

4.16

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9350500[/url] - w0lf - My own trade which is above backpack.tf value, yet has only netted me 2 ads and 3 keys in 24hrs.

"Your own trade" not really like if the suggester add his own trade as proof, however it would be still ok if you wouldn't link it twice.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9180831[/url] - Sayhn - Has been offering above backpack.tf value for 1 week and still hasn't gotten what he wanted.

Well, he has 2 keys on the top of his bp, but no one know when he got them, and for how much. "no new key"

4.11

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9066341[/url] - [4.11 in current range] - Hatch Rawer Beryl - no new key

^^ quote from Hatch who is now buying for 4.22: "As for my link, I increased my price to 4.22 refined." ^^ <-- "true, but I can't edit it :/"

"hovering close to 4.11 for days"

Forgot to say, it was 4.05-4.06 at last night. (GMT+1) Finance fluctate too much, and most of the suggesters, like you always make a suggestion at the moment when it reach the "new range" for e.g. 4.1.

It already reached 4.1 2-3 days ago, but it dropped back to 4.04-4.05.

I forgot these ones:

New 4.22+ buy/sell proof

Buy:

[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1aj2j7/h_47_ref_w_11_keys_422key/[/url] ok

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9361056[/url] - Hatch Rawer Beryl - [DUPLICATED LINK]- only difference he rised to 4.22. But since he is there, he can link succesfull trades as proofs via trade history.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9141315[/url] - Ƒat Ƒish - "NOT BUYING ATM"

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7574175[/url] - [I.B.]-=ViRUS=- - "Can buy 0 keys"

Sell:

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9393688[/url] - Bill Bilsby - No proof of succesfull sales in this range.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9389532[/url] - snipa381 - "10 sold at this price" Trade done, last bump: 9 minutes ago, No proof for that 10x sold keys at that price --> have only 15.33 ref in his bp, no new ref. All his other stuffs are untradeable items/normal weapons.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9216347[/url] - lvt - (Same guy as above with selling thread), Sold 2 keys recently (8.44 new metal in his bp) - ok

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9309158[/url] - Fanou Tou Aloniou - an another keybank bot.. 2 key in his bp, both are new, 0.88 new metal. No real sign of any keys sold.

FYI: with proofs, you have to prove your suggested range. You have to prove SUCCESFULL trades. If there is no proof about they did any trades, then it couldn't count as a valid proof.

My proof is that people can't even buy steadily at 4.11 which implies that it key value should be something close to that, but if you want some more links, here you go:

4.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9366325

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9262700

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9301599

4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9124505

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9169218

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9156088

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9394893 - first key is sold

4.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9164282

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9396342

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9305313

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9326208

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9229237

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9361062

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9153351

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9119518

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9395206

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9393688

You do know that oculus will only discredit those links, do you not?

Nope.

4.44

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9366325[/url] - SirDrunkalot - 12 new ref and a strange jarate + 1 scrap in his bp (got the jarate from someone else)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9262700[/url] - An Pork - 0.88 ref in his bp, no new items at all

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9301599[/url] - [HILFIGER] [H2o] - 0 key in his bp! 2.33 ref only in his bp.. last bump: 8 minutes ago (fake trade?) no new items

4.33

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9124505[/url] - t00thie - 12 new ref (can't divide with 4.33, so dunno what he sold, or for how much), 14 new keys, another 0.55 ref and 5 keys in his bp

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9169218[/url] - firehog99 - no new ref

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9156088[/url] - Cloak - no new ref

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9394893[/url] - Fake Sherman - 0 key, no new ref, but 4x new genuine distinguished rogue (are they count?) - forgot to close?..

4.22

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9164282[/url] - TrueFire [Keybanking] - [DUPLICATED LINK], Already linked as buyer "Reselling in the same thread, 0 key"

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9396342[/url] - theasiandude2747 - Opened: 26 minutes ago, Closed 26 minutes ago, still have the 2 keys, no new ref, only 7.88 metal in his bp. (not valis as proof)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9305313[/url] - [HTL] TechnoKiller♠ - no new ref, but have 22.11 ref at the top of the bp (Probably did the 5 keys trade earlier.)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9326208[/url] - Oswin - Last bump: 4 hours ago, no new ref

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9229237[/url] - Scarecrow - no new ref, have only 3.33 in his bp. no new items

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9361062[/url] - dirk_f - Keys in stock: 0, Last bump: 3 hours ago, no new ref, 7.33 ref at the top of his bp (maybe he sold 1)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9153351[/url] - Sock. - Keys in stock: 0, Last bump: 1 hour ago, 0 key, only 0.11 ref + 1 untradeable refined (fake trade?) no new items

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9119518[/url] - [флдр] • keyboard1333 - "Selling 0 key(s) for 4.22 each", reselling in the same thread,

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9395206[/url] - Kermit the Frog - Trade done, Opened: 1 hour ago, Last bump: 40 minutes ago, 0 new ref, 32.11 ref in the top of his bp

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9393688[/url] - Bill Bilsby - [DUPLICATED LINK] You already linked

I like your style, backing up your arguments, not just rambling. After checking all the links (too god ---- ed many), I must say, I agree that a lot of those seem suspiciously faked, with not enough metal/keys/new items to support the claims of sold/unsold. Seems like OP needs to really look into trades, rather than just reading the notes. ocolus, I think I'd trust you in the future to help price keys :)

look if someone puts up a trade and they no longer have the items with the IDs from the trade then they've obviously sold them. Just because someone has loged into TF2 since the traded and no longer has the items sitting in the 'new' area doesn't mean they're fake. Do you honestly think I'm going around coordinating with hundreds of people to make 60-70 fake buy and sell trades?

Look at ocolus vote accuracy http://backpack.tf/u/76561198043103123 then look at mine http://backpack.tf/u/76561198024091855

He has scammer friends, trades with tf2wh and doesn't even have 70% voting accuracy.

Plus at this point tf2finance has broken 4.11

http://i.imgur.com/TWy35Qs.png

To w0lf

So he trades with TF2 Warehouse. So do I and a lot of other people. Big fucking deal. You do not see scammer friends on my steamrep profile. Are you honestly saying everyone who uses TF2 Warehouse is a scammer? Kind of a broad overgeneralization for you to make. The Warehouse was made to avoid traders who aggressively change prices on items on Outpost, and you think the site is pure evil.

Look again on his profile. HE HAS SEVENTY PERCENT VOTING ACCURACY.

And of course the price on finance will go up if fewer trades are being successfully made. Do you think that maybe, just MAYBE, they are using the keys towards other items, like promos for instance?

No you look again

64.69%

320 votes

Obviously not everyone who uses tf2warehouse is a scammer but that's what it's mostly known for as a place to dump new, junk, and scammed items.

Also why trust ocolus to change your key prices when he's clearly trading Steam games so he can rip people off who don't have a pricing guide to follow

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8907367 - buying l4d2 (2 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9211415 - selling l4d2 (4keys + 2ref)

Also he accuses some of my links of re-listing yet he himself has many games resisted in his trades, hypocrite much?

To W0lf

So he sells low and buys high for his own games. Once again, BIG FUCKING DEAL. You have people actually hassling for lower and higher prices in his trades, unlike the majority of key sales which are suspiciously absent.

What oculus is pointing out is not re-listed trades, but FAKE TRADES AND DUPLICATED LINKS, like what you have been doing. You are sincerely butthurt because he is pointing out flaws in your links?

I can't respond to your later post, I think because it has negative votes... idk. At any rate, I see your points about item history, and while I see some of those trades happening, I also see a majority of them being falsified, as ocolus points out. Also, rep doesn't really matter much, just means that he expressed his opinion, which wasn't agreed with, while (not that you necessarily did) you could have just agreed with the majority for the rep. And I got a couple of scammer friends I haven't defriended yet cause they're legitimately buying from me (some unboxes) None of that really matters a whole hell of a lot in the big picture, in that he provides some nice points. And no, no one cares enough to set up 60-70 fake trades, don't worry, I'm not that extreme XD

Just FYI there is a maximum comment chain amount which is I think 7 or 8, that's why you couldn't reply to my comment.

I understand that not all outpost trades can be taken at face value because there is no trade tracking.

"Also, rep doesn't really matter much, just means that he expressed his opinion, which wasn't agreed with"

That goes against the idea of the site, it's not about opinion, I'm sure I could drop my percentage too if I just went and voted for whatever I wanted to be true. The matter of fact is the more certain you are that a vote has good proof the higher your rep will likely be.

Also since the site votes aren't decided by majority, no I couldn't "just agree with the majority" to get free rep.

My main point is don't just believe some guy because he can put some bold text after my links, which I will agree are not all perfect.

Didn't see the last part. :P

Bold text for to be better readable, and to not think it would be a supporting proof. Why would I give support proof? Thats the suggester's job.

(One of the previous suggestions, even with bold text some people though I prove more proof for it!.. --> lot of people not read even the posts, how should I expect them to check the proofs?)

No one !HAVE TO! believe me of course. It would be the best if people would check it themsellf, but in the past weeks I experienced most of them not checking the proofs at all (same for admins).

People see a bunch of links and they automatically think they are all valid, while they are not that perfect at all.. It would be the suggester's job to prove/note their validity. (I did these "counter"-proofs for the 78% positive 4 ref suggestion too, meanwhile I would like a lower key price, and even upvoted that. According to finance it didn't have any chance, I was pretty surprised it didn't closed in a few hours.)

Anyway, you are the first one from the key suggesters who gave any real response to my "counter-proof like" thing. Also I agree with the remove the key suggestions idea. (And as I posted many prev. suggestion, I would like to see a tf2finance based real-time key price, not sure about its credibility, but still better than this vote system[for keys].)

Note: so many people call me oculus, while I'm ocolus. :(

Can't answer directly to your post, so will do it here.

Do you really think vote accuracy worth anything? I had even worse precent correct votes, because I downvoted the key rise suggestions. :) (And for a long time, didnt even vote for else than keys...) But if you like this "Who have the biggest e-penis" game, good for you.

Am I have a scammer friend? My friendlist is almost always full, atm when I post this have 4 friend invites, do bunch of trades a day. And if I check my steamrep, and found scammers usually delete them instantly. (now deleted 2). Except Lovin' Valerie, if you meant him. Probably he got a scammer tag, but I found pretty interesting reading the steamrep thread about that "Fake Paypal Email Payment Scam" thing. And I still hardly belive it, since I had tons of PayPal trades with him even (Note: I didnt even know him when he got the tag.), I sold tons of bills (10+) to him, and I always got the cash.. First payment was on 2012 summer, and he never refunded a single $, or tried to scam with this "Fake Paypal Email Payment Scam". So according to my experience, he is clean.

Note: About the ID thing you are right, (im not checking the IDs) if you check my notes, I only used on a few the "fake trade/proof" "tag". It doesn't mean the others are valid/real/not fake. I always try to mention the fishy things I found.

Well it seems like a bit a personal attack now, but why not:

Yep, im trading with steam games. Hmm, there is no buying threads for tf2items, right? Also, L4D is a bit extreme, since it was on sale in the past days. And of course im reselling games for further profit, and not for charity :)

1. Buying threads mostly have sale prices (except for e.g. payday, much cheaper on sale), since I stocked up with them on sales, and I dont need million other copy until my stock goes a bit down. Also, that's 2 keys 1 ref, not 2 keys. (before the sale I had a 4 keys 2 ref-5keys buying price, and got only 1 in 1-2 weeks, we can call it quicksell, or lowball, as you wish)

2. Do some math, 4.02$ russian sale price / 1.6$ (mostly russians consider keys around this value, but it depends on its current market price. = 2.5 keys (2 keys 2ref) Ukrainian price is 3.25$ on sale, which is exactly 2 keys. So the 2 keys 1 ref not that low as you think, especially after the sale.

If you think I can sell it for 4 keys 2 ref, you are wrong. I will have to wait a lot until it (3-4 weeks) also, it gone for 8 keys before the sale. (gone up since christmas) So im not even charging full price, but atm a bit too high. I can wait, and I also selling other games in the same trade. If you have any problem with game pricing, I would suggest to check all the trades who selling it. Most of them have similiar prices.

Could you give links about game sell relisting? The only one I know is on the my buying trade, which I created especially for AC1 and AC3, + I put ac2 and brotherhood (only these ones on relist), only made that trade for the FC and AC sales, but you are right. Will (edit: delete) those 2 for you.

(I don't know any rule about the relisting in notes, already saw plenty of copy paste note thread with different games. [for e.g. owner listed all of his games' price])

AC:B, AC2, and AC:R(this one is not relisted!) have an own older trade with other games.

Oh, and WH. I use it because tons of people pay with tf items for games, (with a little overpay) and much easier to sell there the unpainted craft hats, or miscs than create a new trade for it, while 25/25 of my trades are already full.. And I still couldn't put up a lot of games/tf2 items. So yeah, it is worth for me, even if I have a bit loss there :) Anyway, painted and uncraft stuffs are pain in the ass to sell. :P

Am I missed something?

hmm... still can't comment. I'm not trying to shit on you, I wish people wouldn't downvote you for expressing your opinion, but that's not my control... Yeah, so ocolus makes some profit, that's what we're (almost) all trying to do here, for profit trading. I'm not judging his personal validity, just saying that I trust his judgement on this price suggestion. Oh, and tf2wh.com's trust system now blocks scammers from dumping their stuff. So, yeah. I'd like to stop the pissing contest now, I hope you get what you're looking for from trading, be it higher prices, or fair trades. Do as you will, good luck!

My link is in the proof! I'm famous! ...too bad it had to be on a key suggestion.

Don't use scrap.tf for evidence. Geel9 himself already said in the last thread that it's for convenience, and thus doesn't accurately represent the price. It's the same idea behind quicksellers, and it also tends to show bulk buying - which isn't properly reflective of the price.

Here: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/510981f6ba25368d6c000003 when tf2finance's number was attempted to use as evidence to lower the price, it still wasn't accepted. So I would say don't use that either.

This^

If scrap.tf was used as key evidence then keys would be priced 4.11 to 4.33

IMO the admin accepts the vote because they have keys themselves

Lowering the price:

- TF2 finance does not count as counterproof, although it showing the average keyprice.

- 10 links of proof are enough to accept the suggestion.

- Ocolus doesn't analyze the proof.

- People who want that the price drops will upvote, no matter how unaccurate and stupid it is.

- Admins/Mods will close the suggestion because the proof is too poor and nearly all upvotes are based on opinion.

Raising the price:

- TF2 finance is wrong, BECAUSE it's showing the average price.

- 200 links of proof are still not enough proof to accept the suggestion (10 Outpostpages).

- Ocolus spends alot of time to analyze the proof.

- People who don't want that the price rise will downvote, no matter how good the proof is.

- Admins/Mods will accept the suggestion because the proof is good and nearly all downvotes are based on opinion.

Some more random facts:

- backpack.tf is not manipulating the prices, the buyers who want that the price drops are manipulating it.

- Upvotes on lower prices do not count anymore, most of them are based on the opinion of mad people.

- Downvotes on higher prices do not count anymore, most of them are based on the opnion of mad people.

- The market won't crash till Valve does something with keys and/or metal.

- The keyprice will continue rising because everybody is paying the prices of OP-profitwhores.

- Admins/Mods look through all comments + the proof. They wouldn't accept a price which wasn't right.

- The price can't be {x} Ref if the average price is {x} + {y} Ref. (Y = 0.01 to 0.11 Ref)

- The amount of keys in the backpack of the suggester doesn't mean anything.

~ Volpiii

My answer to everything.

Looks like someone here is still in denial. This site IS manipulating prices of keys.

No, it's not.

Downvotes aren't worth a shit anymore on Keysuggestions. The people will keep downvoting just because they don't want that the pricerising continues and "becausa the price is to damn high!".

The moderators mostly look for the proof and the counterproof.

People who downvote Volpiii's comment here are ignorant, meaning they don't know the facts.

Yes, key prices rising is bad for just about everyone. I'd rather not see them and it's unfortunate that traders (buyers AND sellers) are trading for this price.

No, moderators are not rising key prices for profit. What profit are they going to get? Metal? They would've had to bought keys in bulk when they were 2.33 ref to get a noticeable profit now. Now they'll only be getting a 1 scrap profit from reselling keys if they're reasonable. You know what you can do with 1 scrap? Buy yourself two weapons or one cancer strange weapon.

And No, they are not making a profit in real-world money because the price of metal and keys in money is a completely different subject.

Also, No, they aren't doing it to raise their backpack value either. You know why? Because that would be the equivalent of showing off a minor award you won at the office - nobody gives a damn and people aren't going to think any higher of you if you have it nor any lower of you if you don't have it.

Holy shit, first time that someone is supporting me <3

backpack value matters

How part of the the inflation works:

Buyers buy at a price

The buyers then sell it for about 1 scrap higher

Next wave of buyers buy them

And this goes on, theoretically it could go on forever.

UNTIL the people stop buying the damn keys for 4.33, then the buyers would need to lower their price. These are the people who in the end would lose on their trades.

So true. And people always downV for no reason

some of us also vote because the proof is often bogus as oculus has pointed out on many occasions (that guy needs a medal for the time he spends refuting the "proof" links). i am of the school that believes that it would be best for backpack.tf to not report key prices at all. i also do not believe there's a metal glut and key shortage. in fact reality shows the opposite. the ratio of metal to keys is shrinking (it was 2.6 when i started tracking at the end of february, it is 2.47 now. that is a very significant drop! (no, i'm not counting reclaimed/scrap but the ratios of those to refined stay relatively steady)

it occurred to me recently that i've never ever bought keys for metal. i trade metal for items, items for other items, and eventually items for keys. i didn't do it to avoid being part of the feedback loop, but simply because you can make a decent profit doing this if you trade in the right items at the right time.

demand is not a problem (the volume of keys sold is extremely underwhelming at tf2finance). impatience + greed is the problem.

but anyway, i wanted to mention one area where key/metal pricing can really screw an item and also exposes a massive flaw in the way backpack.tf pricing is reported.

take the teufort kicker for example. it was not more than a week ago priced at 1.25 keys. it was then lowered to 4-4.33 refined because of the way that backpack.tf suggestions are made.

the thing is, the day that the suggestion was made, keys were selling for 4 refined. so this was still a decent price. but because the kicker was relegated to the second class currency it's value is now much less than even the suggestion .. umm.. suggested.

and this is the main problem here - items that are already traded for metal and always have been are ok, items that are traded for keys are ok, but the items that are on the cusp are at the mercy of the backpack.tf suggestion interface. the interface - not the reality of the market!

the flaw is that if backpack.tf continues to report currency pricing (keys and buds) and at the same time use different currencies to report item prices, then the system is broken because currencies are in flux.

one way to solve this would be to price everything in either refined or keys. let the individual traders decide what that price actually means when dealing on a case by case, trade by trade basis. if someone comes to you wanting to buy an all father and the site reports the price as 8.44 refined and they have 8.44 refined, great. the seller could also look at the price of keys and ask for 2 keys instead. it gives more bargaining power to the trader and makes this site more of a suggestion instead of bible.

Actually, I think that's a really great idea. It would be hard to start out, but I truly enjoy that idea. As I'm just on the edge of keys/metal trades, most of mine ~1.5 keys in value, having that wiggle room on the key price could be really useful, not having to worry about raising my price every other day. I really like the idea of a mono currency system, imagine a real world economy with 2 different currencies within the same system. One would need to triumph and I think that's what's happening to keys right about now.

I can't ignore those 4.22 refined buyers. How do you guys suggest I should treat that evidence? Like it doesn't exist?

For crying out loud, that trade has been up for over a day and he still hasn't found enough people selling. That's at 4.22 refined a key. So much feels in these comments and not enough brains.

I guess 4.22 should be in the range and this suggestion should be passed then. I also saw a few 4.22 buy trades on reddit.

they're not selling because they know this suggestion is about to pass :)

You are only rewarding key sellers by passing this suggestion.

Key buyers are what is being shown,

The voting system is there to reward people who vote accurately and honestly. It is not there for the community to manipulate prices at their whim.

i agree with this. but you also have to understand that many people (myself included) feel that the very fact that backpack.tf tracks currency prices (creating a two class economy) is a problem. the downvotes also reflect that traders are getting tired of the backpack/outpost feedback loop. you have no idea what all the votes actually *mean* - it's just as assumption that people are voting for/against the price alone. this has become more than just a pricing suggestion.

What makes it even worse is that by continuing to pass these suggestions, you are only going to aggravate the problem and cause a further divide in the community. Like it or not, gold, the community DOES have some say in this, because they are the ones stuck with this price gouging that key sellers are doing now, and your only response is to reward price gouging. What is it going to take for the admins to realize that there is something wrong with this site? When there is a successful, widespread campaign to discredit the site, a la the Spreadsheet?

Let me put it out there, clear as crystal. There is no supply issue, and there is no demand issue. How the hell do you know that the majority of keys are sold via refined? They may be used primarily to purchase promotional items like bills and earbuds, Vintage Lugermorphs, Ebenezers, B.M.O.C.. hats, Max Heads. Before October, the key had one solid price. Thanks to this site and the feedback loop it shares with scrap.tf and Outpost, the key has pretty much devolved into an unstable currency in relation to refined. And it was not due to economic reasons that oh so many key sellers tout, but rather based on the actions that this website has done.

And the reason that the prices go up?

"To reward accuracy and honesty."

That mindset will only aggravate the situation.

It makes everyone who does not trade with keys feel like chopped liver. Like their opinions don't matter.

"The voting system is there to reward people who vote accurately and honestly... so we take that ability for our own and we give you a facade of making a difference."

^This

I stopped believing in this website when u accepted this: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/514639deba2536120b00000

-168 points

no proof

still got accepted

-> conclusion, it doesn't matter whether you have proof or not, it doesn't matter if you have more upvotes than downvotes, it only matters that the price is right and that's not how a democracy or community should work

"Voting on key prices needs to be changed because right now not only is it pointless to vote", and then the trade is posted. You make a whole lot of sense except this man XD

In a world where votes don't matter. Negative key suggestions are accepted and suggestions with 943 points get rejected. One man stands up and says no.

And then you wake up...

I dislike this for being a raise price, but thanks for that very first point about the vote not counting. Don't have the link but i saw a suggestion: 0 proof, tons of keys, wanted upvote, WAY downvoted...

and the admin accepted it

Hey guys Long218 here. Just stopped by to say finance is the best thing since whipped cream. Kthxbai

Whipped cream is terrible.

Then again, so is tf2finance.

My point exactly. And whipped cream is good depending on what you put it on. Don't put it on milk for starters. And don't fill up a cup with it and drink it.

Do you have any links to buyer trades that didn't run out of metal or close in less than 1 hour?

http://prntscr.com/wvyeb i hate that

This shit is getting ridiculous with this key pricing. Every fucking other day there is a new key price suggestion. If anything, this shit needs to go down cause it's highly inflated.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1akd1j/h_5_keys_w_4_ref_each/

I agree completely the price of keys are too overated from 2.66 too 4.33. It must stop rising.

time to bookmark another suggestion...

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/195-why-is-tf2finance-used-as-evidence-for-key-prices/?hl=base64#entry1560

Base64's awesome list.

Normally base64's list would be liked by many.

Why does it have a dislike?

I liked it. I think it's pretty accurate

Long is not greedy, nor is this person. He is merely trying to show the correct price. Please, stop disliking long, wolf, me, and proof/counterproof.

I'd love keys to drop. Unfortunately, it will not.

Correct the price?? If only bp.tf would be down for example ~1month people would stop raising the price. Now it's easy to want current range + 1 scrap because they see 100 accepted suggestions of keys going up.

yay! this debate again!

Well, it be interesting to see what would happen if that did happen. What's there to lose? Keys are the only item where it's apparently not odd to see price suggestions accepted more than weekly. Other items go weeks if not months, and people are discouraged from changing recent prices.

What's there to lose? How's the reputation of backpack.tf? For all the people accusing it of price fixing by moderators, it is still vastly more successful than any other price guide, and continues to grow. Why give that up, along with the donations that backpack.tf gets to keep it running (which is another factor, btw: You can't just run off with someones money) simply because some users try and create a shitstorm over the pricing of a single item? There's many ways to avoid purchasing keys for metal, and many ways to have arbitrage involving keys. To simply stop the suggestions would be the equivalent of admitting to the public that the US is a constitutional republic with a democratic tradition, not a democracy as so many people believe, with one major distinction: backpack.tf is not, never has been, and likely will not be a democracy. It has a democratic influence, much like the US, but also like the US, is under no obligation to follow the votes.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say close down backpack. It was about not accepting key suggestions for a short while, considering it's the only item on the site where constant weekly suggestions are accepted, or seem to be expected. I honestly think you took it a bit to far - you went from not accepting suggestions for a time to losing the entirety of backpack's money, reputation, and collapse of a government. And should something as flighty as 'reputation' really be a backbone of your reasoning? It's as useless as the +rep on people's steam profiles and tf2r. People will use backpack because it works, I don't think you have to fear a single item destroying it.

There's a blatant reason why Long218 is responsible for a lot of +key suggestions.

He owns 1000 keys. YES, he may have accurate and legitimate proof, but Long218 is indeed greedy if he, the guy with 1000 keys, is going to be the one to step up and say that keys should rise instead of letting someone else do that.

Seriously, it would be a lot easier and more convenient for him to simply convert all of his keys to earbuds. He has so many that it would just make things a lot more basic and easier to do when buying with keys.

TL;DR

I have no problem with the fact that Long218 suggests price increases for keys because these increases are legitimate and actually happening and he provides (usually) real proof of this.

The ONLY actual problem I have, which stands to say that he is greedy, is just the fact that he has keys instead of buds with him. Because keys are rising, and buds aren't.

He be a carder. http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/138731-Have-buds-and-1200-keys-with-5-pages-of-rep-1-35-per-key-and-37-per-bud?p=1456804#post1456804

Helen comment on my profile wall:

♡HelenAngel♡ Mar 16, 2013 @ 12:10pm

I recommend not trading with him again, but definitely not until his SR is clear.

♡HelenAngel♡ Mar 16, 2013 @ 10:56am

As far as SteamRep is concerned, you should be fine. So no worries there. =)

I accidently bought it without knowing.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/503-why-is-the-key-suggestion-still-up/

Here. Vincent the mod gives you support.

"YOUR VOTE DOESN'T MATTER!"

still gonna downvote suggestion, I like my keys at 3.66 ref please

That's 50% of the point of this suggestion. Downvote this all day, hell go make 100 alts and all downvote, get all your friends to downvote it too. I've provided ~50 links of people BUYING KEYS for 4.11 or above.

Currency voting on this site is broken and near pointless.

Also, I'd love keys to be 2.55 Mr. Beard. I have about 80 ref in my pack that I'd much rather get 31 keys out of instead of maybe 18 or 19 but the truth of the matter is, it's gonna take me like a week to even get just those 19 paying 4.16 a piece.

who the shit if mr. beard

Damn I need to go to bed.

I like mine at 2.55 :P

I'll buy all yo keys @ 2.55 ref

No you don't.

There is a constant inflow of metal, both from idlers and players. Keys are always in demand and are consumed through uncrating where as metal "stays" for a while until someone crafts (who the hell crafts now a days). It isnt "keys going higher" rather it's metal losing it's value :)

For what you said to be true, it sounds as if the amount of keys in circulation is going down while the amount of metal is going up. Incorrect. The total amount of keys has gone up greatly as well.

Im saying basically metal pretty much stays in the "mannconomy", and the amount of metal keeps growing. Compared to keys which, yes there is a lot however it does get used (consumed on a regular basis ie uncrating). So you have a lot of metal chasing keys as they are in high demand, so people start "bidding up" the price for keys.

Also alot of sellers realize this, that if they keep their metal for a long time it will lose value (every week you get drops = more metal) Ie more metal in circulation so they dump their metal for keys (constant price set by steam) and is a lot more stable in price.

As keys are at the constant price set up by steam, more metal for that same key (same value in usd) means metal is losing value.

amount of keys has gone up as well, and metal is still worth the same as always:

1.33 ref for an average craftable hat,

1 scrap for two weapons

AND, when you raise prices of keys, you might as well lower the price of EVERY SINGLE ITEM WHO IS PRICED IN KEYS

for real, a max's head is now double the value in refined as it was two or three months ago, but the key price has been fairly the same.

If key prices keep going up, then things like buds shouldn't be priced in keys, because keys are obviously not a balanced currency

I seriously can't believe the past suggestion got closed with more than 50% positive votes.

I was really hoping it would be the end to all of this.

Personally I own around 40 keys, and maybe 80 on another account (which I use for storage).

I wouldn't mind, at all, to lower keys to 2.66 ref, or hell, just 3 flat. I would be so happy.

I'm really thinking of giving up on the market, there's just to many people that just want profit and only profit, the forgot about how fun the game is.

I remember the good ol days when trading was about getting the items you wanted and making a fair trade for it. Now it's just profit profit profit and only profit

Are you kidding me? That trade was rejected because the retarted ass people on backpack.tf thought there was not enough proof? (guessing this is why) Can they not see that this is getting out of hand?

I wouldn't exactly call them retarded. I mean I'd love to see you make a TF2 pricing site as successful as this one.

Also the trade was probably rejected because well, it just wasn't true, there's lots of people out there like myself failing to get keys even at 4.11

I do agree that keys are spiraling out of hand but there isn't really much you can do about it. If you really think it's that out of control though you should probably convert everything you can to pure refined and wait for the 'possible' TF2 market crash of 2013.

That is true. Was just pissed about how high keys are. To be honest I have a trade open right now on outpost selling keys for 2.66, but I'm only trading them to be people that aren't profit whores.

I checked out that trade, that's something very generous of you to offer.

I think it's also clearly apparent that you aren't alone when it comes to believing that keys don't belong above 4 ref. The last key vote obviously showed that almost %80 of the community wants, hopes or believes that keys should be dropping in value and not rising.

Maybe when us top %10-20 run out of metal the perpetual key circle jerk will stop, but until then the sky seems to be the limit for key prices.

It's not going to crash man, just go back to the old price people are willing to pay, if it gets to 6 ref, a "crash" would be back to 5.66

Even if a one lie is accepted for all is still a lie.

How exactly does one get "retarted"?

Is it turning from a blueberry tart into a cranberry tart?

UPVOTE

if backpack.tf puts a low price to keys then it would be manipulating prices but isn't.

...What?

lol, almost a thousand positive on the vote to lower it, maybe instead of deciding who should close it, consider passing it next time?

I believe the people have spoken

but is a total lie, I don't like liars

well maybe consider how people use backpack to judge the price of their items, keys wouldn't be selling on outpost.tf if backpack.tf didn't raise the price every time there is a highball seller.

and, there are only THREE PEOPLE BUYING AT THE HIGH END PRICE OF THIS SUGGESTION

I don't think that's enough to raise the price of keys

You were talking about the last denied suggestion a total lie.

"Even if a one lie is accepted for all is still a lie." myself

"I believe the people have spoken" is not a lie. You hate lies? well the current price of the keys is a lie. Hate it and not us people who don't want this economy ruins.

It's obvious that backpack.tf could care less about the people and the community as a whole. The rich get richer and they, just like most of the key price suggestion originators, get richer.

ignorance in a nutshell

How am i demonstrating ignorance? Don't get mad because my opinion differs from yours. Plain and simple, if the community voice was as important as bp.tf makes it out to be, these insane key prices wouldn't have existed.

The community is a bunch of profit whores in tf2.

The community all wants cheaper keys because they dont want to use more metal and feel entitled to low key prices.

Backpack.tf seems like the site that wants to make sure the lower guys don't lose out on value of their items, so they dont get sharked. I'm sure the people this site is made for is new traders and the average trader.

Honestly, i don't feel entitled to lower prices. I feel entitled to honest prices. Most of the key price increase suggestions are coming from someone who is CAUTIONED on steamrep for scamming. The recommendations are being made based on his own backpack and not the best interest of the community. It's not a capitalistic market place if there is a monopoly fixing prices.

Seriously man, get over Long. Look at the proof. Look everywhere you see. It is easy to find buyers at 4.11 or higher.

Well you're entitled to honest prices? Good i feel everyone in tf2 should be getting the right amount when they want to sell, and the honest key price is higher then even this range when it comes to selling.

This is a buyer's price, look around people make trades paying 4.11-4.22. If it was anything else you wouldn't like it based on buyer prices. Bp tf avoids manipulated prices in keys, they can't see how many keys really went for more refined, so they go with the buyer's prices.

And guess now youre attacking long. He has the caution tag because reddit was dumb and he got in trouble there, not for scamming. And he knows his prices so its good that he suggest.

I see we have Long buddies sticking up for him. Cool.

You didnt even acknowledge the whole first part of the comment. Which included that buyers pay more.

And i just know that about long because it was in a couple suggestion before.

People rigging prices for their own personal gain isn't capitalistic. If it was, we wouldn't have laws in the U.S. against monopolization.

Yes, your comment is definitely ignorance in a nutshell.

Hah!

Man I will enjoy watching this price drop down/economical crash after people start refusing to pay such a price. maybe the circlejerks of key selling can actually earn something in the last moments of this.

So you enjoy watching tf2 economy crash to the pits of hell?

If it fucks people like Long who made it shit? Yes.

You know what will fix most of the problems? If tf2outpost had a price tally as the Steam Marketplace have.

Look. I'm a normal player. My backpack doesn't have a tons of unusuals. I want to buy a key once of a while... I'm going on Outpost and what I see?

The sea of highballers.

Maybe there is a trade with <4.00 Ref key price, but is extremely hard to navigate towards a best deal. Most trades are useless and bumped to dead, with no keys, or false information. or they are simply highballs. it is horrible pain on the ass to find everything normal there.

That's why people are buying at high prices. they are drowning in this sea of despair. If outpost would show the actually best deals in the moment. Most problems would be fixed.

Outpost is a horrible website with more horrible people making that place a hell. And admins don't have motivation to do something about it..

outpost is the best

umad?

Metal is free and have endless supply. Keys are endless too but they cost $2.5 so people will just spent more and more metal on keys and the price will keep going up and being updated. Don't Downvote me because I am telling the truth and that you guys complain about how much you have to spent with metal for keys when you can get those metal for free while keys cost real money

time is not free. refined comes from time put into the game which is hardly insignificant

Sandboxie use that and just sleep the night and have a bunch of weapons ready to turn into refined. Get some crates, maybe lucky hat and tool drops.

Time in tf2 doesn't translate well to $

metal to keys ratio has gone down over the last 18 days from 2.61 to 2.47. the alt/idling theory is bunk. there are 25M players and even if there's 100000 alt accounts (i do not believe there is that many) they are still a drop in the sea. traders tend to think from the POV of traders but the common player *far*outweighs the nickle and diming trader with alts, backpack.tf rep (and close to zero life outside their virtual existence)

Metal for exchange for keys to keys for metal is an entirely different ratio.

There are more people with metal trying to get keys then there are people with keys wanting to getting metal.

i'm not saying this ratio should dictate price.

i am saying this ratio shows that there isn't an obscene amount of metal entering the economy as many traders would have you believe. i'm using it as proof that the alt accounts are not having a remotely significant effect here and that i'm tired of hearing that argument. because it is bogus!.

if the number of metal is staying sane it is because 1. refined farming is not having a significant effect on the economy (and therefore should not be used to "explain" the price of keys) and 2. people are in fact using metal to craft (and therefore metal has a very real use regardless of what hard core nickle & diming traders contend)

now if you can prove that alt accounts are a problem, i would be interested in hearing about it.

Idlers aren't the problem.

I was just helping to say refined is free. Just cost one night of letting the computer run.

The problem is a mix of other factors. And the realization of how easy ref is to get is one of those factors.

(ran out of response space)

and i'm saying it's not "free" and it is relevant to the game. the vast majority of TF2 players do not idle. at all. you're once again assuming just because you and a bunch of nickle & diming traders do it, then everyone must be doing. it's simply not true. i laugh at your sandboxie suggestion. you think a significant number of people do that? you think a significant number of people txt idle?

no way, because believe it or not... TF2 is a game....

I dont do it. I only play the game. But a lot of people run sandboxie with 100 + accounts

you say:

I dont do it. I only play the game. But a lot of people run sandboxie with 100 + accounts

my response:

hearsay. totally unproven and i would say vastly irrelevant. i know there are alt accounts in there. and if you go back to my earlier statement, even if there were 100,000 of them (i actually strongly doubt that - one way of thinking about it is, you can be sure that any trader who goes through the lengths of getting alt accounts would also have gotten themselves a tux per alt - see number of tuxes)

but anyway, even if there were 100,000 idling accounts that's just just 0.4% of accounts out there. 100,000 idling accounts generating 2.66 refined (on average) per week. so 266000 refined entering the economy weekly from alt accounts alone.

the data does not support this. at all. your alt account myth is just that - it's been spread over and over by traders trying to rationalize the price of keys. but it has no basis in fact.

Your metal ratio is wrong. You forgot to factor in rec and scrap.

i state that elsewhere in this suggestion. i am indeed only tracking ref. but the point is not what the ratio is, just that it is showing that new metal is not entering the system at a greater rate then keys.

the ratio of scrap + rec to refined is flat - so unless you have issue with just the absolute numbers i hope you understand what i'm getting at.

players are using refined for crafting and the myth that there is too much metal in the economy is false.

there is nothing to justify the price of keys except the price itself

i got 4 drops this week 4!, thats 2 scrap. i played about 50 75 hours MvM.

...and justice for all, doesnt exist

The metal is more like an allowance you get every week, some people decide to save up there metal, some people decide to spend it. Metal is not endless there are caps, free ? yeah, but like I said it's an allowance.

VOTE DOES MATTER. We use it to SETTLE things out and TO KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR EVERYONE. Voting things matter and also our votes matter. DO YOU GET IT?!

Votes of mad people = useless

it is written on the pinned post Btw

I'm not that mad, I'm just clearing that vote does matter.

because a thousand people saying "Hey I'm selling/willing to sell at 4 ref to curve inflation" is clearly useless data, clearly the "vote" system is an illusion to mask a bigger issue...

This will become the new Spreadshit, if we start to vote what's best for everyone.

Facts, sales, proof. That's what we are voting for, and not for advantage of the suggestor/other people/yourself.

Show me in the last 5 raised key price suggestions where the votes actually mattered. Please?

If this goes on, its gonna become like spreadsheet and all of its users are gonna abandon Backpack.tf

Too bad buyers and sellers are the reasons why this site have to update prices. The community can't abandon a site that reflect price in the community

Sure it can, if people like you are monopolizing keys and fixing the prices based on alt/friend accounts selling keys on Outpost. Easy enough to manipulate and you've done an amazing job doing it thus far.

Guys...u r really idiots? Key can't has so high price, it's mad...wtf is going on...

hope this helps

Why can't they be so high?

Just wondering, if key prices were to go down, would ref prices go back up?

Basically atm you have a lot of metal chasing keys as they are in high demand, so people start "bidding up" the price for keys.

Also alot of sellers know, that if they keep their metal for a long time it will lose value (every week you get drops = more metal) More metal in circulation so they dump their metal for keys (constant price set by steam) and is a lot more stable, creating less demand for metal and more for keys.

As keys are at the constant price set up by steam, more metal for that same key (same value in usd) means metal is losing value.

Key prices are always the same (2.5$ from steam store), if prices of keys go down metal would go down with it as it's set by demand/supply.

Also i think the market probably had something to do with the prices.

lets say u have 1000 keys in circulation and 10,000 ref in circulation. when u put keys in the market they leave your backpack till it is either bought from the market or u take down the trade, so if say 200 keys are put on the market. Then u got 800 keys to 10,000 ref. And then you have people idling and just getting weapon drops, so they make ref, and u have say 600 more ref. So u end up with 800 keys to 10,600 ref, this screws up the ratio and so u got lots of people with ref and fewer people with keys and people start paying more. Lastly since keys are cheaper in the market people will probably most often buy them from there instead of the mann co. store so then u got fewer "new" keys coming into circulation and more just reentering the system where as ref is constant.

See, we haven´t changed the price on keys for 5 days and the price on the market on keys haven´t changed at all. People still sell for 4-4.22ish

So backpack.tf do effect the price since it used to go up a scrap a day on the market when backpack changed the price regularly.

no... 5 days ago people were selling it for 4.11 and buying for 4, 5 days later people are starting to buy at 4.22 and occasionally 4.33, showing that the price goes up without backpack.tf.

Create suggestion you want

Create again if closed

Create again before someone approve it

?????

PROFIT

Why do keys need range;-; Keys were better when they were a flat rate. Thats the problem. When people buy at 4.11 for some reason we need 4-4.22. When keys were 2.33, I bought keys for 2.44 when in a rush and we didn't need a freaking range then. Or when keys were 2 for 5, people sold keys at 2.55 and we didn't need a range :l The ranges on these suggestions cause problems too.

Yes yes, I know, "BUT YOU CAN BUY KEYS AT 4 REF AND 4.22!!" But the bulk of sales happen at 4.11. When dealing with a currency of this magnitude, 10 trades at a certain price mean jack shit when there are thousands of keys being traded per day.

I think the problem with a range is that it provides "proof" to people to buy low and sell high for keys. Sure that's inevitable, but it only promotes reselling of keys at the higher range. As TF2OP gets flooded with trades selling at say, 4.33, buyers will have to accept if they don't want to wait a month to get a key at 4.00(and by then the price would've probably risen). Some of these buyers are also resellers, who then have to resell it at an even higher price to make a profit, say, 4.55.

I don't know, just a theory.

It's funny becouse it's sad

¡It still can be bought at 4 ref, no point in raising price! I've bought 4 keys at 4 ref and 2 other guys added me asking if I was still buying. If you raise to 4.22 people will ask for 4.44 and so on, it's non-sense, Stop inflating the key price!!

I guess we all just leave it at 4 refined, or go back to 2010 and leave it at a ref. There are a lots of keys going on the market.....

And the amount of Ref ingame is rising, too.

Key for 4.22-33 ref

4.33 refined isn't impossible as of now.

I've bought 2 at that in the past 3 days. T_T

This site is literally the anti-christ of the trading community. This site sucks all the fun out of trading and monetizes it in favor of profiting from gullible children rather than enjoying the game and trading items for fun. I'm done here, there's nothing left of interest to me. This community is vile and repugnant. I don't even want to look at my own backpack because I feel like a fucking narcissist. This is a video game for christ's sake, why can't we just have fun?

lol 4.22 already? two months ago the price was 3.33, backpack.tf rly destroyed the economy

Economy moves fast. And it wasn't backpack.tf It's the buyers & sellers.

Get out then, bye

fuck you because of people like you the prices of keys are 4 ref and growing

umad?

le epic may may

lelelelelelelelelel

Another suggestion ? Why?

Might just be coincidence, but have you guys noticed that all of the people that have had their key price increase suggestions accepted all have a friend in common on their friends list? That person being Long218. Hmmm.......

that matters because?

It matter because I sense a conspiracy going down between a group of people using backpack.tf to manipulate the price of keys by relentlessly putting forward suggestions and using tf2finance and tf2outpost as an excuse to justify this madness. I would naturally trust a friend of Long218 to jump at me and defend him though =)

I'm not taking his side, I'm just asking you a question.

And countlessly, we have to tell people like you, backpack.tf is NOT manipulating key price. It is buyers and sellers deciding the price, and backpack.tf is here to document the price

Backpack.tf has a HUGE influence on what people decide to sell keys at. You can't deny that. Inexperienced traders use it as a bible rather than a guide. When tf2spreadsheet was the most commonly used price guide did you see the key prices rising by a ref in the space of a few weeks? No. That's because there were only a few admins that the ability to change the price that the site listed. The rate of inflation was minimal compared to what it has been recently.

that's batshit retarded

pss, they gotta find a reason to blame someone for key price increase, right ?

Long218 isn't on my friends list and I have never traded with or spoken to the fellow in my life.

what

another key inflation

...

Everything should have a fix price. (new items are exceptions)People should not even have the right to vote . People want their stuff to increase and lowball on others. (the economy is ruined by following the most greedy people suggestions).

Maybe these fucking people are fucking selling it for that much because you god damn keep raising the price?

No one's going to sell under the fucking price limit, especially for keys.

You're giving them no time to stabilize, and when people know you people are just going to rise again, they don't even bother to try and sell it in the price range.

This fucking artificial inflation is killing the economy so rapidly it isn't even funny.

I'd cash out, since this is very clearly not going to stop.

It's funny because the price hasn't even changed at all, everything else is the same cost, at this point I just sell things on the market to get my keys because it's cheaper and not effected by artificial inflation.

When the only thing that's rising in value (despite keys being a currency) is keys, there's something visibly wrong with this.

New guy here so bear with me...

Just bought 5 keys at 4 ref in less than 1 hour and didn't bought more because I ran out of metal. Oh and btw I have 25 keys...

My trades were posted on Outpost and Trading Post and have evidence to back them up.

All this to say: downvote as I honestly find this key-inflation-induced-by-backpack.tf outrageous.

If it's so easy to buy keys for 4 refined, then here: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9345463

You can make an easy 1.11 refined profit on those 5 keys you bought.

Again... I have proof.

To top it the keys were bought from different people.

Again, if it's so easy to buy them for 4 refined, then why don't you make a quick 1.11 refined profit by selling those 5 keys to the buyer that I linked above?

Because I want to buy a Strange Festive Sticky Bomb Launcher in the coming days and don't want to spend more time trading?

Because my motivation is making quick profiting?

Because I don't need it?

And again I have proof. But hell forget about that! Lets just feed the feedback loop...

You proved the lower range. That is the suggestion.

You want to ignore the fact that there's a buyer paying 4.22 ref?

This is true, go check Steam Forums if you want proof.

Seriously, traders need to stop being greedy and go get that new car instead of buying a exceedingly rare hat that cost 2000 dollars.

yay now to watch people start selling keys for 4.44!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9383181 OHHH YEA!!!

There's a trade where you can reserve a key in the future for 5.66. Better get to it now.

Ok, so lets look at this in real life.

In my country, we host referendums to settle the big questions: build or not to build, lower or higher the prices etc.

Usually, when there is one side winning (for example NO), then the Government does, what we, the people, think is better. No problems, no worries.

Lets look at it here. More than 3/4 people vote to lower the key price. I, personally was a part of them, because the price rose because of profit whores, but we are not here to talk about that. When suddenly, the trade gets closed by the moderators/admins. Why? Maybe because they want to rule the TF2 economy. Maybe they want their backpack prices to rise. But there is a fact: there are ZERO FUCKS GIVEN about the opinion of ours.

Back to real life. What happens if the Government gives zero fucks about us? People get mad, angry, when suddenly economics break, the country falls.

Stop this madness. Now

I guess you'll be happy sharking some keys of a new player for 2.66 ref and thinking thats okay. The new players need to know what they can sell their keys for if they decide to sell for refined.

lol comparing government with a FUCKING KEY SUGGESTION

I bet that these keys will raise up to 5 ref

I fear that that prediction will come true within months.

It makes no sense to raise the keys price, you can easily buy some in the mann co. store for a fixed price. If the key price raises and raises, the ones that buy keys get advantages against those who just play and craft some metal.

trading advantage op, nerf pls x-(

Too bad key value in usd doesn't change. What change is the metal value in dollars as more and more metal go into the market for free.

I have to say that you're right. The TF2 economy works like the real life one, but it's too fast imo.

lel all these people with rumpled jimmilies from key prices going up, I hate it too but I'm still gonna end up paying 4.22 for a key. basically, stop getting your panties in a twist and accept that keys are gonna go up, atleast for now

Don't feed the machine. Just don't buy keys above 4 ref.

I for one won't.

won't help either way unless literally everyone does that

Down voted again. 4refs for 1key is plenty you profit whores deal with it!

P.S. I am only buying keys from mann co store will never trade metal for keys again till the market fricking settles at 4refs. This is just stupid.

With $2.5 you can 6-7 refined so just a dumb move from you

2.49 i get my key instant i dont gotta dick around with traders. I rather have metal then key's anyways so I could give a fuck less if keys go up. But since I trade all the time and seein how much it has jumped this year. These prices are stupid and makes no frickin' since to keep jumpin the price up every day for keys. People like me will just buy keys from mann co store. Yea we spend 2.49 for 1 key but whatever if you just wanna open 1crate doesn't matter. Like I said before I prefer metal over keys any day!

Enjoy wasting money.

Okay, increasing key price is pain in the ass but by the backpack.tf logic is kinda reasonable. I don´t mind price increase anymore /don´t have nerves for that, started to use TF2WH/. The real problem is the double currency. Swith the price to only refs or only keys. That would end up a part of madnes about this key inflation thing. Some people above me has written it beter then me, but the core thing is - double currency which one of it inflates damages the items market. Try to do something with it. Because I lost any faith in lowering key price.

i´m not key seller, but sometimes i need metal (2 buy craft hats/misc or othe shits), and when i sell one key, I reject sell for 4 REF, yesterday i sold 2 keys per 3.66 each and think is rape

my proof

http://gyazo.com/b1bfc263485028894f6872ce324f3f12

http://gyazo.com/e342b1ad6ab234db7c87117d45189329

Backpack.tf have fault in key price because they allow this sugestion every day and everybody know the price in outpost is x+1 scrap.. where´s is the common sense of backpack.tf? this is vicious circle, just watch the graph in tf2.finance after the halloween, the key price raising is insane, that is impossible without manipulation/inflation/repwhores/MR price experts

I bet some key sellers can sell their own mothers just for win 1 scrap, sad people

As long as BP.tf take's OP trade's for key suggestion, I fear it will never stop rising.

The last suggestion that tried this price failed, what makes you think yours shall succeed? http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5144baafba25360048000005

Times changing.

This website was made so that the community votes on prices not admins. If the communities vote did not matter than what is the point of this site?

It's Spreadsheet 2.0, darling. Admins have the final say, no matter the info, and it's used as a bible.

I think its time to cash out. The economy is dying. Stranges from crates worth like 1 ref +- hats worth 1,33 - 2 ref. Key costs 4 ref +- . While with metal you can craft hats ( 3 ref) hats are the only thing worth uncrating these days. (exception maybe salvaged crates). Unusuals are rare some not even worth more then 12 key. (wasted 40 keys so far unusual : none)

I don't wanna start a flame war, but what if you just don't buy keys at all ?

If you don't buy at all, admins and sellers WILL decrease its value. That's all.

Also, if you think "It won't work" or somethin like that, just repeat to buyers to not buy, it doesn't take anythin from you, just like 30 seconds max.

That would effectively be called an economic crash: when we refuse to pay the value of keys.

I'm not sure it would solve our problems or screw us over even further though, lol.

I want to say that even though a vote can get a positive vote, it all comes down to proof. If everyone wants to make the price XXX and everyone upvotes it, then it would be price manipulation to do that.

Sorry, I don't trust Backpack as much now, after I came across this fellow's (http://backpack.tf/u/76561198057673629) price manipulation. Evidence wrapped up nicely here (http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51465ea94bd7b87c0f000018) or in his price suggestion history. Lowered every single other cannonball, except his own, which he raised.

The problem I see is that the serious traders want all the stuff and will do anything. take the genuine cockfighter for example:

-very few, less than some very rare hats

-paintable

-multi-style

-genuine

So why should it be worth a lot? because most of the serious traders missed it. There was only a small announcement making people miss it, It was hidden on the bottom of steam because of hitman: absouloution also. I think the reason why it is only 4 keys is because the demand for it was so high that all the people who wanted it voted on a low price. Look at the original voters, almost none of them owned it and quite a lot bought it afterwords. The problem I think with backpack.tf is that not enough people know about it.

please, I'm not trying to start a flamewar, just putting in my two cents :)

-numel

Key suggestions. What can I say of thou that hasn't already been said?

They bring out the worst in people. Not going to bother commenting for any longer.

>key thread

>mfw

[url]http://i.imgur.com/84tD3xn.gif[/url]

I've been scrolling through the comments and it's pretty entertaining I must say.

"All prices are compiled based on community feedback."

"Prices listed are suggested values only. Price may not always be accurate or updated. Should the price not reflect the current market price, you are invited to suggest a new price by clicking the price in need of an update. Recent price changes are clearly identified with an arrow next to the price."

Right here: [url]http://backpack.tf/pricelist[/url]

"Based on community feedback"

"Prices listed are suggested values only. Price may not always be accurate or updated."

Not exactly sure what more to add to this, everything has already been said. Prices are documented here. The community (should) get some influence, it is now in question if we aren't. And the already known fact that we shouldn't adhere to these prices like some of us do.

Short version: Blah blah, blah, keys, blah, inflation, blah, blah, community blah, prices, metal.

Iv'e sold over 50 keys at 4.33 =/

I hate how we have to use proof, I'm sorry to say that but really, It's getting dumb. Most everybody wants to make profit, correct ? Then nobody is gonna sell at normal price, they want the experience of making profit. If this keeps up there is a possibility that keys could be 6 ref one day, I'm being serious. I also don't understand how everyone agrees that this price is high, but it keeps rising. Why is everyone acting like a slave to a number, we shouldn't just sit around and say "Well gosh golly gee, I hope key prices drop soon, I miss 2.33 - 2.66 ref." There really should be a vote with no proofs just people's opinions, sound logic, and a unanimous decision.

Is it just me or does this sound like politics?

Stock market business.

Agreed.I didnt even know the price went to 4 refined. I didnt even know it went up from 2 ref to 3.

If the price of a key increases then the price of an object in keys decreases.

if an object worth keys decreases then so will anything bought with keys such as #40 crates and earbuds will decrease,

see my point here?

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/513a4006ba2536b86c000012 - negative 28 points, gets accepted.dafaq?

There's a bunch of votes like that. You must be new here.

Your vote doesn't matter.

Only the original suggestion is what matters, which is judged by an admin and then passed or declined.

"All prices are compiled based on community feedback."

If suggestions are accepted based on the suggester and an admin we might as well remove this line.

you could suggest a price too, and your a member of the commuinity. If it passes, congrats the community just made a price. Unless you say that wolf is not a member of the community, this line is still valid.

It doesn't say "A single member of the community".

Lol, there's also the guy that passed it, hes in the community too.

Some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. they can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

4.22 seems a bit much, most sell easily for 4.11, and not as easy for just 4, but they are sold still, only desperate people buy for 4.22 it seems

http://puu.sh/2k7Rr wait, so cheaper price is harder to sell than higher price ?

damn logic man.

i mean that the cheaper price is harder to get, harder to find

This sentence is used to introduce my stance on this issue of key prices. This sentence will prove that my stance on this issue is the correct one, and that the opposing opinion is incorrect. This sentence concludes the introduction and moves onto the next paragraph.

Following the previous paragraph, I will now provide proof of my stance. Here are some links.

This link proves my range

Another link proves my range

Yet another link proves my range

Range proven once again.

As you can see, my stance in this issue is correct. Now onto the rebuttal of opposing opinions and show them that they are wrong. I will now quote a theory that has been already previously established. This sentence will include several economical terms that I just looked up on Wikipedia. I will also address the issue of the value change with regards to the metal and key ratio. I will use statistical proof to show that the change in value supports my hypothesis.

In conclusion, I believe that I am correct on the issue. Thus, key prices should change according to my range.

At this point, lets just remove voting altogether and start posting a myriad of dubious "proof" on autpost.

Using scrap.tf as a proof for key prices is like...if somebody sold a dying man bread for $1,000 because he was the only option available for miles. It's a massive convenience factor and it doesn't make sense.

Geez, is Outpost that bad?

that exactly the whole point of range. lower end is for buying trade/patient while higher end is for fast and convenience trading.

If this suggestion is accepted, I'm going back to spreadsheet.

This is the point when somone else starts a new site thats the new "pure" pricing site. Fuck this shit. Trading keys is dumb. I have the view that if the majority want it, give them fucking 4 ref keys!

lol. but then again, buyers and sellers are trading at at above 4 ref.

people are selling for over price for every item ever. Buyers buy it at that price, because in a week, it will be 4.22-4.55 and they can sell at the high price because of other people. And honestly, there isnt a way to stop it. I knew that this year had gone to shit because 1) North Korea be cray cray 2) Key prices are creating a gilded age in tf2 3) The heat are doing well (better then their average) in the regular season.

So you want backpack.tf, but with 4ref keys http://i.imgur.com/ce67O7b.png Enjoy! Let me know if you need any other prices changed.

^lol. What can u do with the price of buds....?

http://i.imgur.com/DIfjbuN.png This should satisfy everyone, except those highballers who want 1001ref.

I'm gonna have to downvote. These price suggestions are the reason why key prices keep rising. People look at the prices here and say "hmm maybe i can sell it for a bit more, like 4.33 and make a better profit. More and more people will keep doing that and will keep raising the price and eventually keys will inflate so much that people just won't buy them anymore. So downvote.

Vote's not gonna matter. They'll just look at proof, ignore votes, and pass.

Of course the price keeps going up.

It does because it keeps getting raised here. Most people take the backpack.tf price, add a scrap for profit and you guys take their trades on Outpost as proof to raise the price again and the circle starts over.

The whole concept of price votes on keys is just awfully stupid.

http://i.imgur.com/pfEZgfP.png

This overpriced key shit needs to stop.

this isnt corrupt.....no it's not..... because the last suggestion had 940+ upvotes and got closed and this one is going to get accepted with like 500+ downvotes and still get accepted greed is everywhere!

THIS INFLATION NEEDS TO BE STOPPED

too soon to up it to 4-4.22, wait atleast another day or two. Finance is up and down between 4.05 and 4.11.