Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.22–4.44 ref

actually, proof is becoming irrelevant. you know why? because there are already sellers waiting with 4.55+ trades. waiting for bp.tf to raise the price into their range. and the cycle is now completely established. everyone know it.

yes, this is just a bitter comment. and i shouldn't even care. i have never ever traded metal for a key. it always seemed silly even in the days of "cheap" keys.

i do want to believe this site means well, but the runaway feedback effect (which despite base64's now worshipped post is not disproven) is truly out of control and unless pricing on the site is changed to a single currency ( see: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/641-yet-another-key-price-topic-no-flame-wars-please-discussion-only/?p=7122 ) then a 2 class system is being established despite the tf2 community being essentially one "nation" (under gabe, indivisible, with liberty and justice only for the nickle & diming tightwad traders)

Keys going up because of refined going down, right?

Anyway, Imma go turn my metal into keys and have a 30 refined profit on 2 keys in a week, BYE

OH BTW: upvote :)

it hasn't even been a bloody hour

Did you really copied all the stuff of the last key suggestion and only made a new range? Well played m8

At least I didn't copy and paste other people proof and I don't make another suggestion in one hour since the last one get passed

When did we copypaste proof from other suggestions?

Ddddddderp :/

Already another one? jesus calm down..

Downvoted for the #yolo at the beginning.

dude

slow down, another key suggestion was made earlier

and does this hurt your eyes?

as said on my punch suggestion, yes it does hurt my eyes, please stop this

lol, it's funny and it makes people mad, though

The yellow hurts the most.

what about this? :P

pink is gud

uh What does this have to do with key suggestions?

everyone is fascinated by my colour changing skills, and i already explained that it is too early to make another suggestion

Long, you do know that word is offensive, right?

Its a nice color, but I can't read that.

PURPLE is probably less annoying and the yellow hurts my eyes, too, i just like peoples reactions and the amount of dislikes i get xd

Do blue and red.

You will kill eyes left and right.

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/wiki/File:Painted_Hard_Counter_32CD32.png

raep

not too much there.

liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiime

BLUE RED

no it has to go

BLUE

RED

BLUE

RED

except a lot moar

BLUE RED BLUE RED BLUE RED BLUE RED BLUE RED BLUE RED :/ will remove this cuz its spam and LOL my comments above removed cuz pplz not like colour

This is very unnecessary.

This suggestion in a nutshell.

^that

Nope. http://i.imgur.com/1DhlVKL.png?1

lolololololololol

dude you offended me :(

Ever heard of WAIT AT LEAST A DAY OR TWO after the last suggestion got accepted? Kids these days; they have no patience.

is this one also going to be rushed through like the last one? 6 hours for the most important item in the game? half the folks usually involved in counterproof and discussion were asleep.

I looked for counterproof on the previous suggestion myself and couldn't find a thing I don't think a few more hours would have changed anything, sadly.

well, the other day we had over 6 hours where tf finance fell to ~4.11 or less. but here we get 4.31 on finance and it gets pushed through immediately.

not to mention that the key prices go up on days when people do a lot more trading.

perhaps a weekly cycle would be better as that would cover the ebb and flow of trading activity over a week's time.

my cat have AIDS and this comment is useless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIaFtAKnqBU

It's time.

Jesus Christ, these key prices are being rushed to be approved! The newest key price was approved after only 6 hours. We are rushing to a conclusion before thinking this through, ladies and gentlemen.

And also, to the person who made this suggestion, people would not be toxic towards the post if you did not post your troll comments under the links. You want to piss people off, that is a good way to do it.

Last suggestion got Accepted about an hour ago

Everyone chill about time

Suggestions get accepted if they have:

Good proof

Good arguments

Not a lot of opinions

No counterproof

So if yo uare planning on downvote it'll get accepted anyways

BTW : LAST SUGGESTION HAD POSITIVE VOTES? HOW

last suggestion had a decent range cuz no one likes 4.22-4.33

i hate all the key resellers

backpack.tf needs more screenshots from trade servers. i see people selling for 4-4.22 on there. im really surprised the last suggestion got passed because its just, backpack.tf relies on outpost too much for proof. people on trade servers sell stuff for lower than outpost users because they're not highball sellers and lowball buyers, and people actually take time to think about what they're buying.

Then just SHOW 'EM. If you can provide some couterproof, this doesn't get accepted. But I think you just wanna keep the price down anyways.

(Also trade servers are shit; Alot of kids which only wannna make kills on the unbalanced maps, only few people acctualy wanna trade/ have good items in their Bp and everybody is an extrem highballer, lowballer or noob. I'd never go to one o' those.)

i dont have to. judging by long's rage and everyone commenting downvote, i dont need to provide counterproof in order for this to not get accepted

Please see the past 15 accepted key suggestions. kthxbai.

i know. im just saying bp.tf relies on op too much for proof. try to mix it up, screenshots for trade servers, bazaar, etc.

Wait.. people actually trade on bazaar?

bazaar=place where people go when they get banned on outpost

Bazaar doesn't allow lowballing trades.

I put up a trade buying a clean Kringle and some other stuff for 1 key each and it got closed. They have a rule called "don't be lazy. No quickbuying trades."

Not a very ideal place for immigrants from outpost. xD

http://i.imgur.com/exJTj1s.jpg?1

except thats the good thing, people actually get what they want, not lowballs. little highball sellers too

bazaar hurts my eyes

It was funny the first couple times, but can you please stop with the colors?

Having a suggestion being accepted 29 minutes prior to your post was just too much, huh?

It's time.

no it is fucking not. Stop trying to get some laugh by making key suggestions. I had been in your position and making key suggestions for anger is not fucking worth it. wait a few days, put in some effort, find some sold proof, make your own buying trade and then make a key suggestion.

Im not doing it for fun, this is serious.

"When Mattje retires,.........I shall takes le place."

serious my ass.

you want to be an infamous key suggestor because you saw me did it.

Hehe, But seriously, Im serious. -_- I was also messing around when I said that. :3

it's kinda funny seeing Long on a PR campaign.

are you asian? or are you a fake? 他妈的你. im legit

its a cycle

a suggestion gets passed to raise keys

people sell keys for meore and are succesful

there is another suggestion almost right after

gets passed

people sell keys for more

its been going like that for weeks

Yeah, read that on TF2Finance.

i didn't......

Another key price suggestion. Getting closer and closer to crash. Less and less people are buying keys. Rage building. Rage. Rage. Rage. Rage. Rage. Rage. Rage Rage. Rage Rage Rage. Rage. RRRRRRRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGEEEEEEEEE

Now seriously, we have a stupid vicious cycle, people manipulating TF2finance, less people are willing to buy keys and there is huge controversy over backpack.tf. All the things needed for a giant crash.

Key can't crash in metal price because metal is free while key is not.

What logic is this? Premise ridiculous. Man on trading site say metal is free; maybe in America, land of handout, but not in Latvia. Poor farmer in country Latvia try to get metals to buy key; but when he finally get metals to buy 1 key, they go up in price. Is sad day for Latvian farmer. No potato for him.

the fuck ?...

I recognize! Is evil man who price keys want to go up. He has many key in backpack, and wants price to go up so more metals. Many potato for rich man, does not share. Shame on rich man.

uh..........?

You! Is good man. Is wanting price for key to go up, but be providing reliable proof. Is reasonable man. Deserves many potato.

Of Course! You! is good man too. You is da farmer that grow potato to good mans. :3

He can't even trade

Why, did he get tradebanned or something?

His steam account got restricted because he bought carded keys, i think

Uh who are you talking about? the potato man? or Rich man? or me? or Potato?

I... I love you.

Brah, I love you too :3

I love everyone! Much potato for all!

Keys can crash because the actual key/metal ratio is rising (more keys per metal), key numbers themselves are rising and keys are rising quicker than metal drops. Stop trying to use the dumb argument of refined going down. It is just not true. At a certain point keys would be worth so much that demand would drop drastically, and keys would crash. Then the community would hopefully realize their mistake in hoarding the keys, scamming, price manipulating, buying carded keys (AHEM!!!), trying to make lots of profit, quickbuying and all that crap, and they would realize that it all led to a crash.

quoted from base64 "Ratio of quantity existing

People have been saying that the “Total existing Refined: Total existing Keys” from stats.tf has been decreasing, in the opposite direction of Key price.

Allow me to propose the following questions.

Who said that Exchange rate is totally reliant on Ratio of quantity existing (i.e. Money Supply in real terms)?

Canada Money Supply (2011): CAD 614 billion; Canada Money Supply (2012): CAD 668 billion

US Money Supply (2011): USD 2150 billion; US Money Supply (2012): USD 2438 billion

By uneducated logic:

Ratio is 1850/564 =3.50 (2011), 3.64 (2012) => Price of each CAD increased

Actual Exchange Rate determined by market force:

1 CAD = 1.01 USD (2011), 1 CAD = 1.00 USD (2012) => Price of each CAD decreased

So why are people recording the ratio presented by stats.tf each day to prepare for an argument in the future?

Furthermore, stats.tf scans minimum 2.7 million accounts per cycle. It takes over 2.7 million seconds even at 1 unrepeated accounts per second. That’s over 750 hours, i.e. 31 days. And on the FAQ page, “The oldest active backpack was last updated on 2012-08-25 08:00:47”.

In May 2012, there was a minimum of 50,000 backpacks that contained Keys, spread across 4 million non-empty backpacks, and each Key owner on average owns only 1 Key.

It’s not easy to collect actual live quantity of Keys “existing”. In the so called 500,000 keys that “exist” as displayed at stats.tf, how many Keys are already turned into Stranges or Unusuals but not scanned yet? To give you can idea of how many Keys are used each year, it’s in the millions.

So stop citing Keys existing or Ref existing. On the other hand, you can safely say that X number of Genuine items exist at minimum as displayed by stats.tf because they don’t get transformed or destroyed easily."

The ratio does not matter and the metal won't regain its dollar value when it is

1. Free

2. Can't use for anything beside crafting(and that is not even good when you can buy 2 hats for 2.66)

so unless there is a new way to use metal, metal will just gonna keep dropping.

on the other hand, key can unbox strange, unusuals, hats, paints and does not take much space in backpack.

So why is it that people still craft metal, Long? You cannot make the assumption that no one crafts with metal anymore.

they craft metal because they got dropped weapons ?

Perhaps I should clarify. Why is it that people are still crafting 3 refined together to make a hat/misc?

because

1. It is a recipe and convenient. You can do it anytime of the day

2. Trading sites may be down.

3. First day of new items when all craft hats are to be used as crafting and so people have to use metal.

The TF2 trader demographic currently is comprised of 2 types of people:

-People who invested in keys, who are jizzing in their pants; and

-People who didn't invest in keys, who are unbelievably butthurt.

AND I LOVE IT.

Okay, since you guys think that TF2Finance is so infallible. Please note that less than 300 of these keys are sold via these transactions DAILY. And I am not basing this off of opinions, I am basing this off of the site's volume. Face it, the market is being manipulated by very FEW people. I suggest in the future, when key suggestions are being made, people look at the volumes of keys sold via metal transactions, and see whether or not the market is being taken for a ride.

Oh, and in case you think I am full of it and trying to act as a troll, this shows otherwise:

http://tf2finance.com/keys

LOOK AT THE VOLUME. VOLUME = HOW MANY KEYS ARE BEING SOLD FOR METAL.

10,000 keys are being sold a day, maybe. BUT NOT FOR METAL.

so how do we know how many sale are legit, at what price, and at what volume.

Woke up this morning and keys went up once and is up for a raise again? Wow this is getting.....

As much as people hate it, It's a fact that keys are at this price at the moment.

I tried for a day and could not get a single key at 4.22 on outpost.

took a couple of hours simply to get a couple keys at 4.33

4.22 - 4.44 is an accurate range, Upvote

This here, is pure madness. This needs to stop. Keys need to be 3 ref NOT 4.33.

"Ill buy all you keys for 3 ref"

But why do they need to be 3 ref again?

http://puu.sh/2qNkU

How about proof ?

Accepted about 2 hours ago

Posted 2 hours ago

I miss long218 making key suggestions :c

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9689315 Your welcome, tf2 community. I ended up selling for 4.11 because fuck raising prices.

and you just supported all those resellers

good job for you.there just making more profit. and will sell for a lot higher

downvoted, sick of this

Sold over 20 keys 4.44 each, in 20 minutes.

Voteup I guess?

I may be new to the price discussion, but i think when the key value is altered, the sell price will be altered aswell. People just want to gain profit out of their sellings, which is totally reasonable, but using the keys (to do what they are ment for: opening crates!) gets more and more foolish as we progress raising the value. No one will be able to efford anything just by playing this game. Keys should have a somewhat stable price, which should be in a lower range. Then again. I am new. But this is how i see it.

Just make a flat price suggestion. That'd pretty much end the key resellers and hopefully stabalize the price for a bit :/. I am a buyer of keys, and the maximum price for me is 4.33, even when selling (which i freaking hate making someone pay over 4 ref for :/) . So this would be the boiling point for me.

Oh and here

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9577772 Flawless right?

Just make a flat suggestion, that's pretty much how keys were stabalized for the longest time i believe. No one wanted to sell for less and no one felt like trying to sell for more cause it was crazy at the time. Get rid of ranges on key prices D:, cause we all know we ain't gonna get any for the lower end when this passes :<

So...how long before Valve cracks down on idlers again?

Guys! Quit trading with keys and you'll feel no problems at all. That's what I'm doing. I actually like that key rises in price.. Less unusuals get unboxed and so. Upvoted ;)

I have lost faith in this site. Their action are making keys rise, something they must obviously be aware about. Even if it is INDIRECTLY, the only people who benefit are those who are full of greed. This site is far too concerned about their reputation and should be leading the community to make it better Finally, things can be done about this situation WITHOUT backpack.tf manipulating the price. I really think they should do this...

http://tf2finance.com/2013_03/

"their action are making keys rise"

um no, the market actions are making keys rise. People are willing to pay more and more for keys and the site is obligated to update the price.

people that are trying to lower the price because "remember when key is 2.66" or w/e are the true manipulators in the tf2 economy

STOP INCREASING THE PRICES http://steamcommunity.com/groups/savethetf2keys

Stop Spamming.

DAFUQ HAVE U BEEN SMOKING.........STOP RAISING THE FUCKING PRICES FOR ONCE! http://steamcommunity.com/groups/savethetf2keys

DAFUQ HAVE U BEEN SMOKING........STOP LOWERING THE FUCKING PRICES FOR ONCE! http://steamcommunity.com/groups/stopmanipulatingtf2keys

Just make keys worth infinite ref. At least you don't have to remake the same suggestion every 2 hours.

How about this, put keys at $1.35 and refined metal as 1 refined in the price list, and let the market shit itself out for a while?

And i should mention that i got a bunch of keys so this is only profitable for me to see the keys rise, it just seems so pointless.

I know him and i played on railbait with him. He is a little kid. This is what is changing the major tf2 pricing these days

and you are not a little kid? http://puu.sh/2jAMP

Little kid? At least I didn't get banned from that server for breaking every rule.

Useless to make key suggestions since the daily key-metal trades not even reach the amount of 300 keys, daily.. Between march 28 and 29 was only 150 keys! - tf2finance key volume stats

It shows only a "few" people want to buy keys with metal, so the demand is getting ridiculously low... The number of trades probably much less, than the number of sold keys. An 1 key trade, and a bulk trade both count only as "1 sold key" in the price, so bulk trades can't influence the price. But the volume of keys shows the real number of keys, that's why the volume was so high on the 23rd March. (If I understood base64 correctly on one of the previous key suggestions.)

So if someone have a bunch of (premium) alt. accounts(farmers), keys, and refs, then he could easily influence the price of keys, with ~50 key-metal trade between them....

" so the demand is getting ridiculously low."

--Last time i checked there are 20 new pages of buyers every 5 minutes...wouldn't exactly call that low demand...

"and a bulk trade both count only as "1 sold key" in the price, so bulk trades can't influence the price"

--WHAT??!?! you're telling me one trade thats sells 1 key for 4.11 refined counts just as much as a trade that sells 100 keys for 4.33 Refined?

Also, finance doesn't track all key trades....hence why other proof is needed in addition.

"--Last time i checked there are 20 new pages of buyers every 5 minutes...wouldn't exactly call that low demand..."

It doesn't change the fact, less than 300 keys being sold a day succesfully...

"Also, finance doesn't track all key trades....hence why other proof is needed in addition."

Doesn't? Interesting... Last time I head it Does. And everyone know admins only check finance for key suggestions, they dont give a damn about the proofs, just like the voters. (half of them didn't even realized the suggester copy pasted it lol) Btw, if you are right, and it doesn't, then could you explain which ones doesn't?

"--WHAT??!?! you're telling me one trade thats sells 1 key for 4.11 refined counts just as much as a trade that sells 100 keys for 4.33 Refined?"

Conversation about a bulk trade with base 64:[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/514e46f84bd7b85e49000005[/url]

"There was a trader to BOUGHT for 4.33 in bulk. But that's only counted as 1 trade, and it's weight on the Blue Line is equal to the weight of other trades. "

Other one from the same conversation:

"It does count on the volume of Keys. (and thus answering your second question)

But it has nothing to do with the sudden rise in Price."

Read it.

Almost forgot this one:

"If you sell 300 Keys at 4.00, it is no different than selling 1 Keys at 4.00. "

Oh no.......

Ok for fuck y the asshole u want to rise the key to u want it to be wht 20 ref to get a key? get a life asshole it just key not ur dick tht u pull up and down whn u masterbate so y wont u fuck off with the key economy??? FUCK U PEOPLE

lol.

I really have nothing to say beside lol

also lol, a wild ban coming your way.

like i give a shit about this fuking site u pump the key and everything economy like every second u want to fuck ur mom so who give a shit i would get ban to show my right of speech

Hey, I think he's mad. "Get a life asshole" says the guy raging about buying keys for a video game.

The last key price was rushed through as it was. Further, as far as tf2finance goes, it's constantly fluxuating- at least a day is needed to tell where it's actually stabilizing. This is too soon.

Closing this. And please use fresh trades next time, instead of just copy and pasting over from the prior suggestion. Particularly since those trades were geared towards 4.22-4.33, not for 4.22-4.44.

You gave zero buyers listed for 4.44, and since keys are already at 4.22-4.33 on here, I don't find those necessary to reproof

I am tired and lazy, so to find some counterproof, I simply went down the first page of key buyers.

Buyers:

4 ref:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9208345

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9337490

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9661036

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9212227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9694369

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9666450

4.11 ref:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8411919

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9674957

Super low balls that had some success still:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8063848

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/2572557

End note (copy/pasted from [BS] foungi1's offer, who had copy/pasted it from somewhere else.):

If you absolutely need a key, buy one of these for the horrible price of 7 ref.

follow outpost rules.

if you think that this price or any other price is too expensive, then don't buy it. buyers of keys determine the price of keys on backpack.tf/spreadsheet. if nobody ever buys this key for 5 ref, the price of 1 key will never be 5 ref. the reason why a key is 3.88 - 4.11 ref on bp.tf at the time of writing is because there are ppl buying at 3.88 and some people who are buying at 4.11

key sellers, on the other hand, will try to sell at the highest price. maybe they'll sell it and maybe they won't. generally, when a key can't be sold at 5 ref or whatever, the price will drop until the key is bought, and when it does sell, that becomes the new price. so as a community of people who buy keys, if you want the price to drop, don't buy at such a high price. if enough people only buy keys at 3 ref, there will be enough "proof" in outpost links to vote on backpack.tf for the pricing of 1 key to be approved at 3 ref.

This is a real trade. Buy this key for 5 ref. Don't post unnecessary comments about how I'm contributing to this inflation mess because I'm clearly educating those that really want to know, as well as trying to inject the market with keys via my website. Unfortunately a web developer is expensive, so that's on hold for now.

This trade got your attention, didn't it? Share it with your friends, especially if you've been having trouble buying keys at the price you want. In fact, maybe it would be a good idea to start now. Put up a trade saying you're buying keys for 3.11 ref, and once you buy a key at that price, never take it down. Just update the notes accordingly ie. how many keys you bought at that price. Eventually, your trade link can be used as proof that people are selling at 3.11.

"Written by TF2KEYS.com"

Personal note: Yes, I am against the key inflation, but it is the people that are silly enough to buy for 4.44 when they are easy to find for lower that is making it keep rising, I think. I personally enjoy a solid 4 ref as key price, but that won't happen until people just stop buying from anyone who isn't the lowest seller.

TIME TO EXAMINE ALL OF YOUR PROOF THAT WOULD MAKE 4.44 IN THE RANGE VIABLE:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9632983 We have no proof that he traded his key for metal, because he had other trades open using a key as the trade incentive, especially because they key he was using in the trade is no longer in his back pack.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9631592 has those 2 grayed out keys in his inventory, so there's not any proof of him actually succeeding.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8747174 Could've sold most of his keys at a different price, we have no proof that all of his trades were at 4.44.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9128480 has sold keys for less in the past, for all we know he hasn't sold any at 4.44.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9204138 has bought his stock at 4, so it averages out into the current range.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9431091 Sold 4 in a week, potentially all in the last 24 hours.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8799933 More than likely is lying, he has more keys in his inventory than he says and probably hasn't sold that many.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9566162 Seems legit.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9630475 the guy still has both of his keys. He didn't sell one.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9602784 The people who posted "added" don't have any keys from the seller, so we have no proof he was successful.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9525543 Many of the people posting "added" don't have any keys from the seller, some of which don't even have any keys in their recent trades.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9602553 Looking at his inventory, his stock wasn't substantial.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9658936 appears legit

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8872594 His price may have been different, but seems mostly legit.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9603743 Unsure of how many he sold. The guy offering 8.55 for 2 also had a trade open buying for 4 ref.

There's a bunch of sellers at 4.44, even in the classifieds: http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/key some of which don't even care if it's in pure metal. Generally, people want overpay when it isn't in pure.