Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.33–4.55 ref

In conclusion, although 4.33-4.44 still achievable, so is 4.55. This is better than the other range because this shown proof of people successfully bought at 4.33.

Don't forget proof from long's previous suggestion http://backpack.tf/vote/id/515e3c864bd7b82a25000009

Don't bring up unrelated things to stir up the hate because It helps no one, and frankly, it makes you look silly.

not again

Copy-paste proof..

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9887083 - TF2Turkiye | EmperoR - [IN CURRENT THE RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916160 sold at 4.33 - KingdomHeartsFM - [IN CURRENT THE RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830214 add at 4.55 - herrabanani 0.22+ For Vintage - Didn't found any key at those adders from him.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9900617 add at 4.55 - Fagspy - no new ref, but probably 1 key sold to Nikola1898

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9538806 bought some keys at 4.33 - Fribby - Reselling in the same thread [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9781348 add at 4.55 - Explosion - Didn't sell any to that add. No new ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9811137 OOS 4.44 - Panda_For_Sale - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916465 adds at 4.44 - Bane of Rectums - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9802763 add at 4.66 - Fírnen - None of those adds got any key from him. No new ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9897389 add at 4.44 - DEMO - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9788015 add at 4.55 - GamerFlake - None of those adds got any key from him. No new ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9664250 sold at 4.66 - James[Key Banking] - "SOLD OUT AGAIN - NEW STOCK WITHIN TWO HOURS - BOOKMARK" "I Currently Have: 33 Keys." Wut? Keybanker. None of the adds got any key from him, however a lot of new ref at him. (from many people)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916724 sold fast at 4.44 - [dTx] S3OoD22 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916501 sold fast at 4.44 - {P?} Vulkan - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916265 sold at 4.33 - [JAG] TASER!!! - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9917288 add at 4.44 - [GROUNDED C YA IN IDK]zlFlamez - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9915729 add at 4.55 [b]- THE Quintar, GOD of all - Didn't sold any key to that add. No new ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9917718 selling at 4.44 - Sgt. Shyguy - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9917742 4.33 - |PoV|Ye†i.avi?•?• ? - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9826974 sold at 4.55 - Fanou Tou Aloniou «!»No Keys«!» - Sold at least 1 key. Ok.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9907340 sold at 4.44 - .:Pyem!N!steR:. - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916662 add at 4.55 - hussle - No key from him at that add. No new ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9873194 sold out at 4.55 - babypauder(????) - "sold out" -> have 12 keys in his bp, no new ref, no proof for any sold key.[/b]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9845617 4.55 - [GWF(TFF)]Prof. TrollDemo Ph.D - Stock:0 Last (auto)bump: 56 minutes ago, 50 new ref from one guy --> 0 key, or any valuable item in his bp. No proof for any sold key.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9727601 selling at 4.44 - Dirty Dan - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE] (changed his price to 4.55)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9897385 oos at 4.55 - KillerWaffles - 4.22 ref in his bp, + 1.11 untradeable ref, 0 key, no new items. No proof for any sold key.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9896146 oos at 4.55 - [CBC] Outrageous™ - No proof for any sold key. "Keys Sold:7" -> His whole bp hardly worth 7 keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9696833 oos at 4.55 - Chauncey von Snuffles III - 7 keys in his bp, just not selling them. No new ref, no sign of any sold key. "Sold: 17" Just as above, his whole bp hardly worth that..

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9765157 add at 4.66 - KTKTKTKTKTKTKT - None of the adders bought any. No metal in his bp at all. (Wow, that amount of bills in his bp! Nice!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9891815 sold a few at 4.66 - I Pro Nova - "9 sold!", 2 ref in his bp.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9914014 sold at 4.44 - ANGEL - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE] - BANNED for the following reason: Buying reputation.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9917258 sold at 4.44 - Phantom32123 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9866349 sold out at 4.55 - Tyye: Please Tell Me to Draw - None of the adds bought any, 0 metal in his bp.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9911694 sold at 4.55 - Dogeatdog6 - None of the adders got any key from him. No new ref. Have a few new ref, but none of previous owners gave enough for a key. (not sure in this one)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9885699 OOS at 4.55 - Vesrenth - None of the adders got any key from him. No new ref.

Buyers succeed at 4.33+

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9812714 add at 4.33 - Luma - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9869549 add at 4.44 - Deepthroat12 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9851302 add at 4.33 - fwg - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9821956 add at 4.33 - p22y - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9754424 add at 4.33 - PandaPaws - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9726957 add at 4.33 - homunculus - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9897476 bought at 4.33 - TraceofCakes - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9916005 buying at 4.44 - [Smh] Moustache - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9764827 bought at 4.33 - Swag [Inc] - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9878476 bought some at 4.44 - Zeey TF2 TraDer - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9755621 bought many at 4.33 - NatCon - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9901492 bought many at 4.44 - James[Key Banking] - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9816848 sold out at 4.44 - mrpimxx - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE][/b]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9851057 add at 4.55 - ThatOneAwkwardGuy - That add didn't bought any key, not even have enough metal.

Thank you for posting actual counter proof instead of 90% of the people that will comment with #SAVETEHKEYZZZZ

#SAVETEHKEYZZZZ

I THINK 1 KEY, SHOULD COST 4 REF

WE CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!!

2 keys for 5 ref is way better price, mate. Only half of year ago....:'(

m8, no one thinks the key rise is good. We just want to accurately reflect the market.

ikr, but let me be sad, rip cheap keys, i not uncrating anymore, i almost not tading anymore. It's all because of damn iflation =(

The stupid thing is, thanks to the popularity of the site, the market reflects backpack. it's just idiots selling for high prices, and idiots buying because they don't know other traders / don't care because they're rich. Finance is being manipulated (trust me, I know how easy it is with only a couple hundred trades taking place a day) outpost is infested by idiots and the vicious cycle continues.

I don't think everyone agrees about accuracy being the only motive.

heh. unfortunately, at this juncture, your statement starts to become invalid. as RCF says, the popularity is starting to affect the market.

Basically, backpack.tf now follows outpost, instead of vice versa. But then again, when has outpost ever followed backpack.tf? Outpost should not be the only proof in my opinion.

That was the good times.

Now we dine (trade) in hell. TBH i dont mind keys being stable at 4 ref. That would have been nice. .5 meant 2 ref. easy. btw at this rate, keys will be double the price it was a year ago. Im shocked people dont have the sense to STOP BUYING KEYS AT THIS PRICE.

Well some people have no choice. Dont have money for store and have no other way to get keys.

With Oculus providing his proof, I will downvote. FYI, Triforce, oculus shot down the proof in that suggestion as well, so this only reinforces my decision.

Thank you, my friend, for helping save keys.

You are so funny, I come here just to read your comments

Ocolus, what would the world do without you?

I want to hug this person

Why Just why

my hero <3

In future, key proofs should only need valid evidence for upper range as we can assume that item will be transacted at lower ranges. It will be easier to check the proof and mods can ask for some range proof if they feel its needed. tf2finance can also validate the range if the high end proof is valid.

I've got a trade in for keys at 4.33. Not much, but it's something.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936224

[url]http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/005/600/its-something.jpg[/url]

ocolus, you do know that some people "key bank" trading keys for metal, and vice versa. So the metal/keys may have been traded but retraded for metal/keys.

That's why I check when I can, the new item's/ metals' / keys' previous owner's bp. (It can cause a lot of trouble, and took a lot of time to try to check all of them. :/)

Sheesh, how many notifications do you get in a day from all the people responding to your comments?

Should we change the price because I can buy gift wrap for 4 ref, then sell it for a key?

Well at least you're being mature about this key suggesting of course I wouldn't expect the same back, but "It takes two..."

Pretty darn accurate: http://tf2finance.com/keys/ is at 4.42 ref by the time of posting this (Apr 08, 15h14 GMT)

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

Go ahead, neg me, doesn't change the fact that it's at 4.49 ref now.

Key volume (number of TRACKED key sales)

>less than 20 people

well that explains the sudden spikes lets check yesterdays?

less than 30

day before???

less than 30

Week before??????

less than 50 (around 40)

Fml

Do you even know how TF2F tracks the trades? I don't think so.

This artificial key inflation is so annoying.

Let see if banning me on key suggestions gonna get key to lower.

I already see it will just keep rising.

Mods didn't control the comment section, let people use vulgar, trash talk both mod and key suggestors and then ban key suggestor from ever making key suggestion again. nice job right there mods. can't handle the peer pressure anymore and so ban the scapegoat in effort of calming down the key rising haters.

Not with all this "shit proof" nothing will be passed. Kinda like your recent suggestion :3

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5161ebca4bd7b8a90c00000e

Unless of course, your suggestion gets passed with -241 points because you're just an amazing "Pricing Connoisseur" http://backpack.tf/vote/id/515e3c864bd7b82a25000009#515f42d7ba25367a2c000001_row

I wish there were many more people like "ocolus" and his amazing counter-evidence in this community so they can stop this ridiculous pricing.

Long218, you might be complaining about bad mods here letting stuff happen, but don't forget you took part in it too: http://i.imgur.com/l9d7r4i.png

They banned you because you have had a history of saying stuff to piss people off, and not giving a shit about doing so. One needs to only look at your history of posting suggestions to see that you have pissed a fair amount of people off.about keys.

There is more to life than making these constant troll comments towards others. Did you know there is actually a game connected to this? Why don't you play TF2 for once? Or how about prying yourself away from the computer and rethink your life choices?

Vincent told you yesterday to stop submitting the key suggestions or he would ban you. cleverpun is not happy with you either. You are not considered a scapegoat if you were caught red handed doing something you were not supposed to do (buying carded keys knowingly).

"have had a history of saying stuff to piss people off, and not giving a shit about doing so"

you don't eh ?

and you guys got mad before me, lol

your banned oh thank god

only from key suggestion.

and I can still provides proof so my friends can make key suggestions which mean your nightmare is not over.

Why? must you do this to keys also do you mean for ever not 5ever

5ever more than 4ever.

.......seriously? You tried to correct that? A joke?

Are you trying to get permabanned?

Can't long218 just make suggestions from an alt.

A majority of people don't actually believe that you're the sole cause of the key price rise; it's your attitude towards others, your questionable reputation, and the "jokes" you play on an otherwise serious matter that's the problem. And it doesn't help that you're a major contributor to this site.

Every other Key Suggester just posts proof and ignores the mob in the comments, or are at least calm about it. You just snap half the time and add fuel to the fire.

Again, take a brake Long and go cool off. Run a mile, watch a movie, just get away from backpack.tf for awhile. You need it. Stay if you want, but eventually you're going to say or do something you're going to regret. I'm not telling you how to run your life, I'm just giving you some helpful advice.

I'm sorry, but I do believe that outpost is no form of evidence to drive up prices. People will always ask for prices more than the standard set so they can make profit. There are still plenty of people selling it at standard price, and when changing prices you and I must take into account the fact that these people are trying to make profit and thus purposefully driving up their own prices.

http://scrap.tf/keys

They are using now this range.

Downvote, Ocolus's proof is like a kick to the balls and a jab to the stomach

Inb4 inb4s

Inb4 inb4 inb4's

C-C-C-Corn Bread.

meta as fuck

Hm. Did I start a trend?

So the last key suggestion didn't past a few hours ago, so lets make another with the same proof, and range? Heck yeah!

The only reason the last suggestion didn't pass is because it was closed because it was from Long, and he was kind of rude in the comments. But, I would get angry too if all I got was hate in the comments. But I just ignore them :)

did you see his comment about why he makes key suggestions though?

http://i.imgur.com/l9d7r4i.png

Wow, didn't know that bit. Long, why do u hate poor people? Just ignore them or shoe them away with a stick or something

I don't like people like qnqnx.

http://puu.sh/2wg1W

The generalization, the false accusations, ...

But I can keep myself calm, for now, contrary to Long.

I admit I did make that comment while being angry. Angry at Long.

Sorry if that offended you.

That said, it isn't false either.

Thats the thing, with other suggesters its one thing, but with long, he's got so many thing under his belt

1- 649-1049 keys (at any given time)

2- at one point he changed his name to "the key manipulator"

3- buying carded keys, and having that "joke" conversation about buying them

4- the final nail in the coffin, saying he wants to make metal "poor people trash"

He's right though.

Its starting to come to the point where no one takes backpack.tf seriously anymore.

SourceOP doesn't.

Yeah that comment got hidden inside of this massive shit-storm of like 4 people (near every comment got a warning including this one)

Sounds like one of those stereotypical villains with a dramatic backstory... Seeking revenge to all who laughed over him...

1,000,000 ref

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTmXHvGZiSY

true, but if you are making honest suggestions with good valid proofs and everyone is hating on you and you're not doing it for money eventually you will get pissed and yeah :S

that's the only reason? what about tf2finance at 4.41 at the moment?

4.47 atm - guess now's the time for admins to look :): <- happy sad face

Ermegerd Long is banned from key suggestions: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5161ebca4bd7b8a90c00000e

How'd you know that?

"Long, your idiot comment has gotten out of control. I'm not going to try to defend it anymore, there's no point or reason to do so. You knew your rep with key suggestions, and you just had to gave it that extra push. I'm shutting this down. Any further key suggestions from you, valid or not, will be considered trolling and will result in a ban. I'll extend this to key comments if need be."

A Distinctive Lack of Vincent · modified about 6 hours ago · Score: 7Like·Dislike·

Basically, Long will get banned if he makes any key suggestion.

Where did you read that?

In the previous key suggestion I posted above.

Ok. Thanks :)

He'll probably make an alt

More than likely, that will apply to his alt.

Doubtful, since it would be a whole new Steam account.

Not that it's a bad thing. He does provide accurate proof every time he makes a suggestion.

No key suggestions have 'accurate proof' anymore.

They find the best trades to represent their own opinions on key prices, ignore all other posts, and try to hike the price up. Keys go up every other day, and for no reason. Might I add the key suggestors are the ones with about...100 keys, on the low end

he has one. and we are best friends.

Can I be BFFs with you guys as well? Then we can call ourselves.. THE TRIFORCE OF COURAGE :D

If he tries, both his main and alt will be banned. Brad can track by IP address.

If he uses another computer?

VPN.

Can we please not? The only reason this is happening is because people are getting greedy and sell at above the normal range, because they feel they can, as what they do drives up the price when the people on here see it. If the price on here stays fixed, then there is only so much they will sell them for, as they won't be able to sell their keys if they charge much more.

TL;DR? Vote shit like this down. If they price on here stays fixed, even if you feel as if it is not 100% true, then the price of keys in the TF2 economy will stop inflating, or at least slow down dramatically. And this needs to happen, or else we'll end up with a price like 8 ref for a key this time next year.

No thanks.

Says the guy with 80 keys...

Ok, this is honestly getting out of hand. I DON'T BUY KEYS WITH METAL! Those 80 keys are from two things:

1. I sold an unusual and got about 60 keys

2. bought 20 keys with paypal

I am only doing this so you guys can get a fresh face to yell at instead of it always being Long.

Yells, flames, kills "Triforce Of Courage"

^ Don't see any reason to yell at you.

I think in the near future, I will take over long's place so I can be yelled at for making key suggestions :)

Yep. Votes are completely useless on key suggestions now, because everyone's opinion is "0MGZ SWAG SAVE THE #KEYS"

CHILL GUYS Oculus will be here soon

oculus IS here

Note my time of posting

oh... whoops

OMG ITS OCULUS AND EVERYTHING HE SAYS IS ABSOLUTELY CORRECT, HIS OBSERVATIONS ARE PERFECT

He is Jesus fggt

/sarcasm

Stop-Key-Voting 2013. Mark keys as only real money prices, let the outpost sellers sell for what they want. I guarantee they'll drop in a matter of days.

Reposting the same comment because this is basically the same suggestion Long made.

OMG... will these keys ever go down?? I mean them stupid newbs that always make the prices higher make others think of the price higher than usual... if you stop suggesting higher prices, then these people will just stay at the price of 2 scrap more than original....

just saying to be accurate, they are kinda the opposite of "newbs"

True, they know what there doing and there doing it well.

The problem is people still buying keys despite the price hikes. Because of:

1) Many items are still priced in keys, with few exceptions

2) People only accepting offers in keys

3) Desperation because of 1) and 2), thus buying keys despite knowing that they're paying more and more

4) Clueless buyers with more metal than sense.

I blame the TF2 trading "culture"

Looks like someone went on a dislike spree around here.

I wonder why...

I was just about to do this as soon as Vincent and Long gave me the greenlight. Make sure to ask them first.

I would treat Long's opinions with a grain of salt, considering his past history, and his past opinions on this topic.

peasant. i did ask long, on BP.tf forums through a private message.

Apparently, you did not see the comment above me.

No, i just don't care about how you feel about Long

Correction. You don't care that he has a less than stellar reputation with keys.

Lol, he is nice to me and that all that matters. I like him because he is nice to me.

I suppose you'd like Hitler if he was nice to you?

There wouldn't be that many reasons not to

Okay okay, I said that I would leave, but this comment is just too damn stupid and ridiculous.

You compare long, a guy which was reporting the price of keys, with Hitler, a man who started a 6-year war which ended with 60 MILLION deaths? ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS?!?

This is a computer game, nobody says that you must trade. If you don't like how economies work, just leave it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Average key price "setter" on BP.tf

Start the vid by saying "you won't get this to pass"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr9PpC1QOO8

I'm just giving up on these key suggestions.

People can now buy and sell keys repeatedly and make endless profit.

Solutions:

1) Lower key price.

2) Raise Refined price.

3) Stop making suggestions.

4) Give everyone in TF2 10 keys.

First one will be the easiest, Second is viable. Third is unlikely, but possible, as for #4, no one's generous enough, nor has the power to do that. (For the record, IF I ever had that amount of keys, I'd do this in a heartbeat.)

You need to get it out of your head that people are making huge profits by buying keys and selling them when the "price" goes up. What you're seeing is the near runaway-inflation of the metal market. Everyone with an idle account, myself included, is to blame for this. Metal is so easily acquired now that it's value is falling drastically. I'm honestly surprised the value of craft hats hasn't risen yet but, given time, I'd expect them to do the same thing keys are doing now (albeit on a smaller scale). Metal is no longer a true currency. It's a commodity. Like water. I'm not going to pay you a dollar (key) for a cup of it when I can get a 50 gallon barrel of it from someone else for that same dollar. As long as it can be produced without limitation this trend will no-doubt continue.

People may be making a hair-line profit of a scrap here or there but unless you keep buying and selling that profit is quickly lost by the continued devaluation of metal.

Well, I won't argue, metal is devalued. But what I'm saying is keys are running away in prices. And just to say something, 1-scrap-profit per trade adds up A LOT. Repeat 100 times, you've got a profit of about 2.5 keys on top of what you invested.

Why can't keys just go back to 3 Refined? I'd be happy just seeing them go back to 4 Ref.

I'd be happy if they don't raise another scrap in the next couple months.

I find it suspicious that almost all of the recent suggesters have a buttload of keys on their accounts, and possible alts... Time to check the item history on those keys!

well hell Every time keys go up so does my BP and I only own unusuals, but that is only in terms of ref, but you can sell ref for money...

You CAN sell anything in TF2 for money, Refined metal is just the universal currency.

Aww, my key trade I did late last night didn't make it on the proof list this time. Keys going up to 4.55? Looks like it's time to sell them for 4.66 Ref!

You're not helping...

It's the people who buy my keys that aren't helping. If they didn't add me to buy them, then I'd sell them for lower. If I couldn't sell them for lower then that, then I'd repeat till they sold.

It's just as much the buyers fault as the sellers fault when it's outside the current range.

Edit: I tried selling for 4.66 yesterday, didn't get a bite for 6 hours. I moved it down to 4.55 and they sold next to instantly.

That is because they want to buy cheap stuff. If it is just 1 scrap more than they want, they aren't gonna buy it.

I can agree that they aren't help with it.

I'll have to downvote this since ocolus' counterproof shows the high end isn't backed up by actual sales. If the suggester happens to get some actual proof of sales at that price I will change my vote.

Well, looking at the histories of many recent suggesters' keys (ie. Long, King), I realized that most of them purchased the keys THEMSELVES. What these people are possibly doing are:

1. Buying keys from both Valve-Endorsed and Non-Valve-Endorsed services.

2. Selling some keys for the suggested price in metal.

3. Selling refined at an even LOWER price via PayPal/external services.

4. Sell more keys after the refined price has dropped and the key value has inflated.

Sure they lose some profit when selling the ref at a lower price, but they actually gain profit from this after the prices have changed.

There's a not small flaw in point 1: it was proven that he bought his keys from less than legitimate sources, those being sellers of keys originally bought from the Mann CO. store with stolen credit cards.

Even then, there are more legitimate places that are not Valve endorsed, such as Sourceop and TF2Shop.

Fixed it ;)

Valve probably didn't make refined available to sell on the Steam Beta Market because it'd give a greater incentive for people to idle further dropping refined prices even more than you suggest Long and people like him have done.

I was thinking about that, and I wrote it on the comment but quickly took it off to stop speculation.

I'm willing to bet it's because nothing craftable is on the Marketplace.

This does actually make sense.

http://imgur.com/ePEPJBj

Traders in the future...

lol nice^

once people used to sell keys for only 1 ref, jesus

They never did that lol.

I almost expected it to say "I will trade you 1 space key for 3 space ref".

The last 2 identical suggestions failed less than 8 hours ago, one being made by Teflon Long. Stop being so foolish.

As said there, I'll say again: I'm sure we're all getting really tired of people skimming all of the high ball posts on outpost and passing it off as proof (not to mention that if anyone else did it, they'd either be banned or warned for making spam trades).

Hopefully one day the admins will start to realize this and not rubber stamp something when it has hundreds of negative votes.

Oh... right... Remind me, why do we have a voting system again? It doesn't seem to actually accomplish anything here.

Please post counter proof to reject the current suggestion then, it's actually quite hard to find people selling keys for the lower end :S

That's because this price has already been accepted as gospel because of the outstanding vote and that's why the system is flawed. There's no time for prices to normalize before they change again.

Do you seriously think sellers aren't paying attention and gaming the system to their own advantage? Everyone selling keys right is simply watching all of the incessant rambling by everyone here during these votes and laughing their asses off. How do I know? I used to be one of them. I stopped when keys were 3 ref when it was just getting sickening how simple it was and how greedy other people were.

As soon as a suggestion is made we'd simply bump our prices by just a scrap higher than the highest part of the range so the 'vote' (and I use that term loosely) passes with ease.

SMH. You guys just can't help yourself can ya..

just leaving this here: http://i.imgur.com/MPsZQMm.jpg

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9933716 - 4.44 ref

It's in the range isn't it?

I wonder how long until keys stop being currency and start becoming items like Bill's and Buds

>They already aren't to people with any actual money unlike you plebians

>le may may lines

The sad part about all of this is most of the time, there's ample proof for these changes but nobody can be civil about it. At least the admins finally stepped in and stopped Long from putting his foot in his mouth.

Wish they just could fall, not raise...

$5 sadly says that this price will get slammed all the way up to 5 ref by the end of the month.

it would actually be around 1.75$

.35 * 5 = 175.

Math, it helps.

Nows not the time for bullshit private. Keys are serious business.

I think OP knows why the prices are rising so quickly.

It's not metal, metal has always been worthless, craft hats have been 1.33 forever, they aren't increasing in price. It's backpack.tf.

Keys don't drop, the only people who can sell them are traders. It's still cheaper to buy from tf2outpost than to buy from mannco. People are going to put up with the price because they have to, there is no other way of getting keys.

When key suggestions pass (with -241 votes), traders just up the price, since they aren't going to sell for under the max unless they are cashing out (in which case they go to sourceOP, who doesn't use backpack.tf's pricing.)

Keys were stable forever, until one thing happened:

http://puu.sh/2woJV

I don't even trade keys or metal. i buy 'em off of paypal.

At this point in time, buying keys from SourceOP is cheaper and takes less effort than buying from outpost.

Then the only solution...

is to KILL backpack.tf.

Idlers using sandbox that get 25ref from simply having their computer on contribute to this as well.

They buy keys using that "free metal" and then sell of keys for money, got WORSE when tehy introduced the premium upgrade cuz it made idling ALOT easier

I have a friend who idles in the scope you suggest, and even he thinks it is bullshit.

Nice, we already have people selling for 5 ref on outpost.

One step closer to 5 ref.......

http://www7.pic-upload.de/08.04.13/u4n86g6nfae.jpg

2x 10keys for 4.66 each, to cba to screen the other trade. steam was laggy thats why we did 2 trades

Lol i like the porn tab on the top right XD

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

OH GOD.

MY NIGHT IS MADE

yea, my gf got here blleedings...

i fucking hate this

So can we all agree that we've reached the point that Outpost and TF2Finance are no longer legitimate sources for ""PROOF"" in these suggestions?

It was good proof to..maybe they closed it due to the flaming that time

they did, there was some vulgar words being said *cough Davyn cough*

I give up on arguing now...

But he also does provide good proof.

It's not backpacks fault that the price is rising. It's you and your idle accounts. you bring in new ref into the game every week and not as many people are bringing in keys via the store.

The higher the amount of ref in the ref to key ratio, the higher the value of keys in ref. EASY.

Except the key/metal ratio has been pretty stable.

The refined to key ratio is stable at around 2.66 ref per key according to Backpack statistics. You still have to count the tens of thousands of weapons brought into the game every week.There are probably more potential refined in weapons from idle drops than there are actual refined.

Problem is we will never "truly" know the true ratio, how much is on the market, how many weapons are on F2p accounts, how many are untradable, most important of all how many keys/ref are on private accounts. Weather it be KEYS or REF we don't know the *full story, sadly

The only reason keys are going up is because people are trying to sell them for more and desperate people are buying them. I don't care if your a godly trader who wants to change the price. The fact is if we all ork together we can keep the price at what it should be, besides backpack.tf

Has never really had an accurate key price (3 months ago when they 3.33 backpack showed a price of 3.88 to 4.11

i dont know coleccionist or he just want bp price up and also his bp value

Don't know if troll or little baby man.

Argh.

Someone just suggest 8 refined already so nobody will buy keys anymore. We have to stop this bullshit.

^ someone will eventually buy for 8 ref :)

When key increase drastically in a short period of time, people tend to make many philosophic reflections for the reasons of the cause.

I've heard a lot of comments about how increase in key prices is due to seller greed that leads to this vicious cycle of increased key prices relative to refs.

I would like to comment on that argument, which I find to be a complete fallacy and misunderstanding.

Price is in indicator of demand. If keys were sold at a low price, there will be none left to sell, and thereby causing a key shortage in the market. That is why key sellers are forced to increase their price. It's not because they want to do it, they are in fact forced to increase their prices.

The debate should be, what is causing people to favor keys more than refs in the recent months of rapid key inflation?

So true. I used to sell keys for a scrap more..boy that was a headache.

I sold like 50 keys within a few hours, then had to spend 1.5 times longer trying to buy those 50 keys back. It was so stressful that I had to raise my prices.

^ Why key prices keep rising

I hit the point though where it was not worth the headache and I stopped selling keys for metal.

^ Why key prices keep rising...some stop selling for metal

There has always BEEN demand, mostly kept in check, but when the price during halloween was increased, people realized that "hey I can change the price of keys" few months later (like 6?) we have keys nearly DOUBLED in price.

Okay this is out of hand, not only to copy paste proof, but to really push your 79 keys up (thereby granting you an 8ref profit) and doing this SIMPLY BECAUSE you want to ride with Long218 is low.

Really low.

Lol 8 refined.

lol still an unfair hike just to run on Long218.

Then please post counter proof to the current key suggestion

The highest I can see keys going to is 8.11 ref, any higher and you might as well buy it from valve. My calculation may(will) be laugh at but, say ref is 0.30 cents and Keys are a 2.49. Divide those two and you get 8.11 ref.(Though this only applies to people how pay for keys with money.)

What if ref is 0.10 and you want to buy keys on the market for $1.40

Now you need to sell 14 ref to get that key

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

4.47 at time of posting.

I sell out quickly at 4.66, hard to buy at 4.44.

if this continues, in 2 years keys are gonna be the new buds:(

too bad buds are priced in key and not metal

too bad you can't understand a joke

it's really closer to meaningless bitching than it is a joke

A small group of people are manipulating the market for personal benefit and they succeed every time.

Thanks backpack.tf

Then feel free to post counter proof to reject the current suggestion.

The proof checks out, and people are buying at the suggested price and even paying more

weps are sold every now and then for 1 scrap even though they are worth .05. does that mean that weps need to inflate too?

You are a god among men. Don't let anyone else tell you otherwise

You can use scrap.tf to pretty much buy any weapon you'd like for .05 refined however you'd be hard pressed to find a frequent sell of keys at the low-end of either backpack.tf or spreadsheet's price.

HI GUYS IM A TF2OP TRADER IM SELLING KEYS FOR 5 REF SO BP.TF WILL RISE THE PRICE AND I GET MAOR RICH 8))))

You'd still be making 5 refined per key either way. backpack.tf would not be helping you profit because you and others would have to prove that keys sell for 5 refined frequently enough for it to be included in the range and by that point I bet you'd already be making the same sarcastic joke about 6 refined per key.

http://puu.sh/2wzzc

Are alts allowed on this site? His alt appears to not be perma'd.

I want to artificially vote my own things.

Who is this "he" you are referring to?

If you are referring to Long218, then I can assure you this is not his alt. He and his alt were banned because Long, while under the influence of alcohol, used his alt account to suggest that earbuds should be worth .22-.44 refined

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/50d762caba25365f6f000013 suggestion that took place.

http://i.imgur.com/BFBJXHn.png Screenshot from the suggestion where Long admitted to being the owner of the alt account.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/meetthestats/discussions/5/846940248105378692/ ban appeal Long filed after being banned for making the suggestion.

http://www.technobuffalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/The-more-you-know.png

Also, I'm talking about his actual alt,

http://backpack.tf/u/76561198067716863

this person, not the maker of this suggestion.

Are alts allowed on this site? His alt appears to not be perma'd.

Brad Pitt has the ability to trace your IP address, so he'd technically be able to see if you logged in using a different account on your computer. Anyways whether someone is using an alt account doesn't particularly matter because you'd still need actual proof that the item you're trying to inflate in price is actually rising.

Not the question I asked. Are alts allowed? I want a yes or no answer.

Yes, as I explained above it wouldn't make a difference anyways.

This isn't long alt. I re submitted longs proof because it is good proof. The only reason longs suggestion was taken down was the fact that he and others were using vulgar language.

Long doesnt use vulgar language. He is Nice lady 8) http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n517/HeroSoulEater/Long218_zps700f69cb.png

he and others he and others he and others. I mentioned that he was using bad language too.

Just for the record, vulgar language had nothing to do with it. The comment I had warned Long for was the reason. His reputation as a manipulator isn't fully deserved, but it's the second time he's willingly added fuel to it. It was spiralling out of control and there's just no way he can make key suggestions without people erupting over it.

"His reputation as a manipulator isn't fully deserved" you make me laugh. And then cry, what with your position here.

GUYS We need to raise the key price in order to accurately reflect the market at present! It's crucial!

GUYS We need to give hate comments in the key suggestions in order to make sure the key doesn't rise so we F2P's can get shit tonnes of them! It's crucial!

If you want to be sarcastic, then do it well.

"so we F2P's can get shit tonnes of them"

I would like to see an explanation of this, how could F2Ps get keys.

I've had keys as a F2P.

F2P can get keys through trading.

only if someone gives them items

>_>***<_<

*gives random F2p a weapon

Yes they can trade, but what they can give for it? Average F2P hardly can get any keys, unless someone give him/her a free key/item in that worth. (or trading with games)

Guys, this price is wrong!

It's been an hour so we need to rise it!

Us traders are serious plz dont joke this is super serious

This is getting ridiculous. I remember when keys were 2.33 :(

Blame key sellers when the market crashes, which it will if this keeps up

Back in my day, keys were 1 ref. That's was in World War II sonny.

Damn. Wish I played TF2 back then hoarded as many keys as possible. We could have been rich :(

Deja Vu every key trade.

Who cares if it crashes..won't affect anyone unless if key sellers become really desperate for metal.

So, I don't get it. People post every other day for a key rise, proofs from TF2outpost, which is a site that uses Backpack.tf to base it's prices on, causing a circular loop of idiocy where each site rises their price based off the other's current price.

Every post is massively counter-proofed to show why it doesn't need a raise, massively downvoted....and yet it's accepted, and the cycle repeats.

Also, as for saying long218 is a good guy, and thanking him;

http://i.imgur.com/MPsZQMm.jpg

Easy to buy at 4.33 ref

prove it

Lah de dah just selling keys for 4.77 refined over here. http://i.imgur.com/yeOUc0X.png?1

wait.... if i understand the conversations correctly, you just copied and pasted the proof from an already rejected price suggestion, somebody copied and pasted their counterproof, and you expect for it to pass this time? in the time it would have taken for long to get all that proof, post it, get the post denied, and have you pick it back up, most of that proof is probably not even valid any more.

i remember keys being 2.33 =*(

Those were the bad days. Trading being fun? EW! Now this is the better way! People like Long being here trying to screw us all over is what TF2 should be about. AMIRITE?

i remember when nobody cared

the old days

speak of the devil....

Not that anyone really cares or that it means anything, butt screw it. I like to think I'm a good person.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9947295[/url]

Is this because half your backpack is keys?

People with that amount of Keys shouldn´t be alowed to post price suggestions.

Its impossible to be impartial.

Its like if i hoarded 200 weps and then raised the prices so they would be worth 1 Ref each.

How many people on this site with no keys will actually raise it.... Doubt anyone will.

The only people who will try to vote a raise are traders with tons of keys, or those who have a few keys and have very little metal.

Im not saying anyone with keys shouldn´t raise prices.

Im saying people whose backpack is 90% keys have an agenda.

Like if a group bought all the buds and triple the value and after they sold them they start lowering the price again.

If this gets accepted

I'll SERIOUSLY quit backpack.tf

All because of Long....

yes the ONLY reason keys are rising is because of long, you have made a fabulous and very correct statement!

Because one man can change an entire economy.

If it's a dictatorship, yes.

didn't know I was so OP

Luckily Long was nerfed.

So in the entire history of key pricing, it's been long the entire time...roll's eyes.

The market was in a state of endless peace and stable prices...

But all that changed when the Fire Nation attacked...

I see what you did there

Fire Nation, Why U ruin the reputation of fire?

Okay, we reached the final point. backpack.tf is not a serious website anymore.

Mods are banning people for irrelevant reasons.

"A Distinctive Lack of Vincent" threatens long218 that he'll ban him if he ever makes a new keysuggestion again. And why?

After this comment:

"And for I can see, Long is still a massive asshole that gives not a single fuck about either the economy or anyone else not in his clique of asskissers.

Do you even play the damn game, Long?"

long replied:

"the way you people treat me will be the way I treat back. I don't give a f*** anymore and my goal will be rising the key price until metal is just a useless trash of poor people."

Yes, completely a fair reason to ban him from keysuggestions. People insult him, say that he should die, because he reports the price for a VIRTUAL ITEM and nothing happens to them, they only get a meaningless warning.

Btw. If you didn't notice, half of longs comment was sarcasm: "my goal will be rising the key price until metal is just a useless trash of poor people.".

And you ban him for this? Because he tries to defend himself? Because he posted his own mind for the first time?

This is bullshit, nothing else.

Bye all, I won't watch this anymore since even the mods start to act like children.

Shit just got real.

this is not the first time long been in trouble..odds are they each got meaningless warnings but long's warnings added up

It's as KingOfHeart says. He's already had one major incident pass with only a warning. Not to mention numerous smaller incidents in conflict with other users both in and out of key suggestions, all only with warnings. He knows he's a problem when it comes to key suggestions, and had even personally stopped for a couple of weeks in acknowledgement of that issue. He also knows he has a problem in hostility with other users, something he's resolved to fix at least twice now to no end. After all of that, he dived right back in and got right back to escalating things.

I'd say there's only so many times one can only warn someone, except that even here, he's essentially getting just another warning. He's been given plenty of leeway due to the issue of provocation, but in the end it has to be recognized that he keeps on allowing himself to get into the center of trouble and proceeding to make it even worse.

You can try to simplify it to 'defending himself', but ultimately there's just far too much history, far too much additional context surrounding it. My decision wasn't a kneejerk reaction, nor was it something I took lightly. If I wanted to act like a child, I'd ban him for good and use one of many available excuses for it. I'm doing my damndest to resolve the issue in the fairest way possible.

Dou'h, I see your point. Sorry for calling you childish. Didn't know about the "fights" on other suggestions.

I think you should add a big red line over the keysuggestions which says "KEEP IT CIVIL" or something like that. And, well.. then you should ban everybody (only 1-4 day-bans) who is insulting others for no or the wrong reasons.

That's fair. I should have made some of the additional circumstancse leading to the decision clear when handling the prior suggestion, come to think of it.

I'm typically a little wary about dealing out bans without a warning first since the site doesn't have an official rules list. Though part of that was that our shortest ban time up until yesterday was a week- 1 and 3 day bans were just made available to us. Definitely time to change my process.

When I have some spare time, I'll start drawing up a rough rules list, see if it can turn into something officially added to the site. With the comments sections continually getting busier, some more solid lines need to start getting drawn.

Good to know, but I think that some headlines above currency suggestions would stop most (or at least some) people from posting useless comments which won't change anything, just because they don't want that the price changes.

The comment section is being abused, too. For posts like "no, stop raising keyprice, downvote" or irrelevant arguments like "owns: xxx, he may wants to raise his own BP value for a few Ref". This must stop, comments are there for discussions and to post counterproof. You should include a rule for this.

Well that's not entirely fair. I can understand if they start harassing others, but censoring useless comments is not going to do any favors. In fact, it would tarnish more of the site's already negative reputation. I mean, comments on Youtube are meant for criticism, yet we have irrelevant comments there all the time. Censor that, and you'll have people getting really mad fast. It's best just to ignore it. If it get out of hand with threats, racism, sexism, and other controversial material, then by all means censor it.

You are right, but I don't want to say that everybody who posts a useless comment should be warned/banned.

I meant to say that people should try to avoid posting useless comments which are not helpful, nothing else.

What you don't know is that Long has had a reputation of pissing people off, to the point that they don't want to hear any more of his trolling. He has a notoriously checkered trading history, since he already is listed as cautious on SteamRep. He was banned from Reddit (as far as I know) for trolling Outpost trades, saying he will buy tuxes for a bud. He was banned during Christmas because he made a troll suggestion for 0.22-0.44 ref.

And you have the carded key incident, made evident by his outpost troll trade of 2.66 He is banned from SOP from buying keys from the last person on page 5 of his thread, and that user is banned for carding keys. And of course he does nothing to help his case when he is insulting "poor people" left and right, calling hmself Key Manipulator for one of his suggestions, and his overall toxic attitude. He was stripped of his monthly donator status earlier this month by the mods at this site, and Vincent warned him not to make a suggestion for keys considering his past history. If cleverpun is not sympathetic towards Long (as is evident in the forums), barring him from key suggestions is more than justified.

THAT is why he is being barred from suggesting key prices.

Let the door hit you on the way out.

Just changed my mind, I'll stay here because Vincent told me what exactly happened, unlike others.

Btw. Poncho, insults won't do anything, they'll only get you banned. And your posts are mostly rude or have bad counterarguments, which have been disproven many times.

Same applies to you, volpii.

Ah keys keys keys keys keys keys. Ah keys keys god damn. Ah keys keys mother fucker. Ah keys keys god damn.

Are you crazy? Why not higer it for 10 refined?

Naw. 10.56 refined. :)

Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot 0,56 :)

No, really: If this doesnt stop, we will be on 10,56 refined at the end of this year. IF THE PRICE GRPWS SLOWLY.

I have sold 60+ keys at 4.66, am i going to have to print screen a bunch of pages from my trade history or there an easier way to provide proof ?

These guys are the reason the mannconomy is fucking up, thanks a lot.

pls explain

Keys need to stop going up and start going down the price is getting rediciouls

If you truly cared about helping the price of keys to lower than get a bunch of friends together and start selling keys for lower. That's a much better solution then coming to key suggestions and complaining even though 3 days ago when keys were listed at 4.22-4.33 refined you decided to sell a key for 4.33 refined: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9861739

Ill be honest, I actually want keys to be high in price. I had a couple keys that i bought for 3.55 when they were around there, and now sold for 4.55+ . 1ref+ profit. Im loving it. And now that i have no more 3.55 keys, Im buying keys at lowest price and selling for highest on Outpost. Even if it will trouble new traders, They can scrap bank until 4.44 or so. c:

A typical drop rate week will give you about a reclaim if lucky. (5 to 8 weapon drops). At 4.44, it would take about 13 weeks to get that much metal (excluding the chances of a hat drop or salvaged crates.) There are 52 weeks in a year, so it would take roughly 3-4 months to collect that much metal. That's a lot of time for someone who starts with nothing. It'll just easier to buy one instead. Likewise, someone with 3 idle accounts would roughly get a refined a week. At 4.44, it would take that idler 4-5 weeks to get that much metal. That's a month. Idlers have it easier while normal players are struggling a lot.

your right. One problem is that some idlers use programs to run 100+ at a time with one computer.

This will get accepted either way so I'm going to upvote!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9701024

People would still do for a lower price...

If you want the price of keys to drop, get a bunch of people to sell keys for 4 ref, and, most importantly, screen the people you sell to to make sure they aren't resellers! Resellers are the problem here, and if we can cut them out of the equation, keys might start dropping back down with enough support. Just my two cents.

oh god, not again

BTW il just leave this here http://i1137.photobucket.com/albums/n517/HeroSoulEater/Ref_zps9cd168b3.png ;)

5 ref per key :o

upvote i have also seen many sold for 4.66 :)

agreed. these prices need to go down.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9958984

Hue

That is the kind of idiots I'm talking about. I also saw someone selling at 6.66, and someone selling at 8, but he was trolling about the key prices.

The only reason the price of keys is going up is to give other players the justification to overcharge for other items. Within a few months, Raw metals will be completely useless, as no one would be willing to dole out 5-6 refined just to get a key. If anything, the price of keys should DROP. The economy in TF2 was stable at one point, but now, no one can even TRY to get anything.

Admittedly, if the price of keys keeps raising like this, then the price of craft hats will as well, so will the price of strange weapons, because this is bloody well ridiculous.

Do what you want ’cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate!

Yar – har – fiddle-dee-dee, being a pirate is all right to be!

Do what you want ’cause a pirate is free, you are a pirate!

I know the people who make key suggestions know that there are many who appose keys rising in price, so why continue to do it? Because of proof? The rise of Keys effect the economy as a whole, as there is NO other item, hat, misc that has so much power as it controls the price of ref. The inflation on ref is a joke as the majority of people who buy keys especially in bulk are "key hoarders" and are a cancer in the economy, but then again those who submit price increases are aware of this but look the other way because of "proof." Here i suggest and ultimatum we either stop this or let OUR economy, mann conomy crumble away.

TF2 Finance

Fluctuating from 4.42 ref to 4.50 ref

Price at time of posting: 4.45 ref

Price Average: 4.44 ref

Sellers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830214 4.77 ref - sold three to "KeNo" http://puu.sh/2wQEF

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954303 4.66 ref - sold nine http://puu.sh/2wQtZ http://puu.sh/2wQxd http://puu.sh/2x1QN

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9951550 4.66 ref - sold three

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9958958 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wZJz

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936372 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wZpq

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9866349 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wQ3C

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936155 4.55 ref - out of stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953879 4.55 ref - sold in less than six minutes http://puu.sh/2wPXX

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953893 4.55 ref - sold in less than four minutes http://puu.sh/2wPVc http://puu.sh/2wPVG

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953733 4.44 ref - sold two to "Senio" in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2wPGM

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953907 4.44 ref - sold seven in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2wPUl http://puu.sh/2wPSi

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954299 4.44 ref - sold in less than minutes http://puu.sh/2wQuU http://puu.sh/2wQvU

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9816848 4.44 ref - out of stock

Buyers

5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9960846 - bought http://puu.sh/2x0XY

4.55 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9927447 not buying atm

4.47 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9935086

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9956593

4.44 ref (yes, it is the high end of the current range)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369579

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9894502

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9907635

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9847965

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9925599

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953764

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9937113

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959754

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959189

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954554

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9779574

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9943369

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9901492

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953429

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9943369

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954003

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9950930

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953764

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9912934

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9193424

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9938138

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9927418

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9876925

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830410 low stock

Notes

- If you're going to provide counterproof quoting my proof, do not include "ok" links, please.

Watch out, Ocolus will come here and say that proof of sales at 4.44 are useless, because they are in the current range. Basically he is right, but the number of people, who are paying a specific price, counts in this section of proof. Ergo if the majority pays more than the suggested average price on backpack.tf, the price needs to rise..

If there aren't any buyers at 4.55, it proves the high price is invalid.

Eh, no.

We have sellers which are succesful at even 4.77 Ref, it proves that the current high price is outdated.

Prove it. Or, to be more precise, provide more links so ocolus can instantly disprove them.

A little experiment.

http://puu.sh/2x7sl

3 Views after a minute, one person instantly added me to buy one Key

I know that this isn't much, but it proves that you can sell Keys for 4.66 right now and that pretty fast.

May I make a test to sell my Keys for 4.55 Ref each?

Edit:

http://puu.sh/2x7Cd

6 Views after five minutes, another person willing to buy 3 Keys for my listed price of 4.66 Ref each Key.

Why not? analyzing all the proofs... (Sry for the worse quality, was in hurry.)

Sellers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830214 4.77 ref - herrabanani 0.22+ For Vintage - Wanted to check KeNo's BP, but his BP set to private so can't check if he has any keys or not. However, 14.77 new ref at the screenshot. 11.66 now, 9.00 of them from KeNo. (Not sure, maybe, but if he really sold keys to him then I think it couldn't be 3, max 2.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954303 4.66 ref - sold nine http://puu.sh/2wQtZ http://puu.sh/2wQxd http://puu.sh/2x1QN - you - I dont really like own proofs, but ok.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9951550 4.66 ref - sold three - CruS^ - ok

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9958958 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wZJz - [Rct] Jimmy Hunter - Checked the refs previous owners bp, didn't found any key at them from him. Also selling other stuffs for ref aswell.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936372 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wZpq - tosti007 - ok

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9866349 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wQ3C - Tyye: Please Tell Me to Draw - ok

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936155 4.55 ref - out of stock - TheNinja - Have only 4.11 ref in his bp.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953879 4.55 ref - sold in less than six minutes http://puu.sh/2wPXX - Banetoid - No proof for sold keys. Got his refs from many people. (none of them from KeNo,but as I said, cant check his bp)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953893 4.55 ref - sold in less than four minutes http://puu.sh/2wPVc http://puu.sh/2wPVG - lolz - (changed his name, I guess) His key gone to ice cube, but got 0 ref from him, also checked his new stuffs, but there was only a pistol and a few scrap. (checked the high five's prev. owner, but didn't found any ref from him/ice cube)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953733 4.44 ref - sold two to "Senio" in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2wPGM - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953907 4.44 ref - sold seven in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2wPUl http://puu.sh/2wPSi - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954299 4.44 ref - sold in less than minutes http://puu.sh/2wQuU http://puu.sh/2wQvU - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9816848 4.44 ref - out of stock - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

Buyers

5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9960846 - bought http://puu.sh/2x0XY - Hochspeyer - Interesting, but he has only 0.44 metal (0.33 new), and the other items seems like he already has them for a while.. Dunno, price also seems a bit high and your own proof, but I guess ok.

4.55 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9927447 not buying atm - Nick - "not buying atm"

4.47 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9935086 - Final2500 ツ - Reselling in the same trade. Trade done.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9956593 - 1st.liitio - Trade done in 3-4 hours.

4.44 ref (yes, it is the high end of the current range) - We want proof for the new range.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369579 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9894502 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9907635 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9847965 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9925599 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953764 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9937113 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959754 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959189 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954554 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9779574 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9943369 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9901492 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953429 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9943369 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954003 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9950930 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953764 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9912934 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9193424 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9938138 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9927418 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9876925 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830410 low stock - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

It's funny, at this rate it's going to be eventually cheaper to buy keys at the mann co store for $2.50 then to pay with ref, my guess is that's where the key prices will finally stop, or not, who knows how far the stupidity of people can go. Albert Einstein said some things about human stupidity, haha he hit the mark for it.

STOOOOOOOOOP price key, omg

don't stop

BELIEVING. *DUN DUN DUN*, HANG ON TO THAT FEELING!

I will never buy mann co. keys for metal.

i m sorry but this is gonna be 4th rise of key price in last 2 weeks

it s just my opinion and it may sound like price manipulation.. but what will happen to tf2finance if we dont change price of keys in next 2 weeks. if it will stay under 4,5 that means backpack.tf is manipulating prices

As you said, IF it stays under 4.55 Ref, but this won't happen. The price won't stop rising, no matter if we report it here or not. It just can't magically stop.

Have we ever tried to do this? I d.say.finance reports key price and we dont have t to do so. Why dont we have a link to finance at key price? Actually selling an item for scrap more or less is pretty normal. If we report. it .every time such thing happens we will end.up like this. I m sure that backpack reports most.prices much better than spreadshit but we cant report key price better than finance.

Here's an alternative experiment, going the other way:

Have the price of keys be determined by TF2Finance itself for a week or two, changed every hour.

It's not like voting is doing much for keys, anyways.

Here is the Key Price's Theme Song with its recent price increases. -.-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q9rewnLFYw

key suggestions are great for my daily dose of drama.

try making one ;). I've gotten like 10 people who've added me to give me death threats.

I had none after 2 suggestions :I

Tempting... tempting...

"I say that key's should stay at 2 ref"

Stopped reading after this because it's completely based on your opinion, and your opinion doesn't affect for which price Keys are getting sold for.

5 ref here we come..

*sigh* miss the old days, well, this is gonna get passed anyways, so 5 ref wont be far away

please give up on this key price shit it is Honorable. Now if anything the price should go down but i don't think it will happen.

The price should go down because...

Why.... ;_;

the markets fucked up right now most people agree, the main reson is fucking keys going up stop this shit right now

By the end of 2013, if this is still going, nobody will play TF2 anymore but a bunch of rich people. I thought TF2 was a game.

And http://tf2shop.net/details/5021-6. I remember when they were about $1

And I don't see the point of making tf2outpost.com proof. People on outpost follow the backpack.tf prices, and some people highball, then this happens.

And since keys are currency on this website, lots of prices are going to go up without us knowing it. Genuine AWPer Hand isn't worth 4.33 ref, it's probably worth about 3.66 ref.

Actually there are plenty of people who will sell their items for less than backpack.tf price. I think half if not more of my accepted 220 suggestions have been about lowering the price of an item. Talking about outpost highballers though: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/510ef467ba2536da24000004

im sorry i was new to the game then i started not too long ago

The second this suggestion is accepted, people will start selling for a couple scraps more....

You don't seem overly concerned about the price of keys rising: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9890305

You decided to buy a key for 4.33 refined when the price of keys when priced at 4.22-4.33 refined 3 days ago.

yes but that never worked because I couldn't find a seller, so I closed it.

I needed the key to help me buy this http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9865707

Which I ended up just giving him the metal for

posting like that neither help nor hurt this suggestion.

this is the most price manipulated item in all of backpack.tf!!!! people on outpost continue to raise their prices on keys knowing that it will change the legitimate currency and it pisses me off because it apparently counts as proof! what we need to do is lower the price of key by a shit ton! that will really screw over those greedy jerks trying to sell keys for 5 ref. the price will never go down but only up. (it could reach up to 6 ref a few months from now and it would surprise me if it did) and it kills me when people are like "hey hey hey buy my keys for 4.88 now cuz you knowz there gonna go up in values herp derp!" for this i down vote! the keys must go back down (i have a dream of a tf2 with keys priced at 2.33 like they used to be)

So you are suggesting us to manipulate the price to lower by a shit ton! so that it will screw over those greedy jerk sellers and benefit greedy buyers ?

right.

it is exactly what I'm saying cuz its them who are changing the price! they suggest it and urge everyone else to sell their keys at that price as well giving them more power and proof that keys need to go up, the buy their keys at like 4.22 or what ever the hell they buy it at and then they ask for a price suggestion and then resell their keys for shit loads of profit, they need to be punished, 6 months ago a key could get you 2 craft hats if you were very fortunate usually people payed a key and a ref. now you can get 3 craft hats and 2 reclaimed for 1 key! that's stupid! i hate to say it but it's true.... keys are worse than gas prices! (not compared to rwm but tf2 currency)

but that is not how it work.

just because buyers want a price at something doesn't make it the official price. you cannot just force this site to manipulate key price to go down just because the sellers sell higher and higher due to a rising demand. you have to put yourself in their shoes, will you lower the price of your stuff if they go extremly quick or that you see other successfully sold for more ? no, you also want to get as much as them or more. so with that said, unless valve make changes so that metal is more desirable and that people actually want to keep, then key rising in metal is inevitable.

if i remember correctly you tried to make an impact and make the price of keys go down: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9467873

you shouldn't have stopped

fyi it was a troll trade. that why I told them not to add me :)

i found it to be a wonderful idea!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9967815

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9765224 K.

notice how the trade is closed? if it was still open that would be different

Please do tell how it'd make a difference whether or not the trade is still open of when you were trying to sell your keys for 5 refined last week. Quite frankly I see you as the problem, the outpost highballer that doesn't care about key prices and just wants to turn a profit regardless of the consequences.

RLY?!?!?!? keys alredy are way too expensive now. STHAP

Is this site just trying to not be taken seriously more, or...

This is just ridiculous. Just the comments. Half the people here are just complaining that this site is corrupted, but will come back to use it again and again. Also, the amount of people that think votes matter is ridiculous. Votes weren't meant to be based on your opinion. The site tries to accurately reflect the market price. You're supposed to vote based on the proof, and whether you think there is enough proof to show if the suggestion is correct or not. If you think its wrong, you're free to provide counter proof. The only reason these suggestions get accepted is because there is no counter proof (except ocolus). I don't even care about the price anymore, as i don't play tf2, and don't have any keys, nor enough refined metal to afford a key. And personally, I think a lot of the accepted key suggestions are slightly too high. As many people said, its possible to get keys much cheaper on trade servers. And GUESS WHAT?! That's valid. If you bought any on a trade server, as long as you have a screen shot of the trade history, its perfectly valid counter proof. Don't complain about how you can still get it cheaper, and backpack.tf is corrupted. PROVE that you can get it cheaper. Complaining isn't going to help anything. And the biggest reason keys are going up, is because people are still buying them for these messed up prices. If people stopped buying, sellers would lower their price, and it would go down. As simple as that. And i honestly don't see what good you'll get by insulting the key suggesters and the mods. Pretty much all prices on this site is correct, and if you disagree, you can change it with proof. It's just this one item that makes people think this site is corrupted. If a suggestion is wrong, proving that should be simple. If you can't find any proof that it's wrong, it usually means its right. But insulting others isn't going to get the price to go lower, it just makes you look like a lowly creature fighting over a virtual currency. It doesn't make you a better person, and your just wasting your time if you think that insulting the site and mods is going to get the price to lower. Enjoy.

/rant

Oh. dayum. Dem keys, they are too high :o

Lawdy! :O!

I give up!!! People even post counter-proof and it's still accepted!!!!! whyyyyyyy I just don't understand..I'm now out of the key to ref trading system...

Submitter Price Suggested Details Notes

☣Long218 4.33-4.44 ref Score: -241

Accepted 3 days ago

bought for 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9863377

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9847268

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9889998

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9914038

average joes: Waaaaaaaah virtual traders are hoarding the virtual keys my life ruined!

the traders: get gud supply n demand legit tactix i have proof 360 price submissions refined is fallliinnggggg

bp.tf admins: We are here to show accurate prices, not influence the market. Not at all.

/it is a joke

If a group of people have somehow managed to corner the market on virtual keys more power to them, I couldn't think of anything more time-consuming than trading for keys and they've earned it. I don't see how constant bitching everywhere in the TF2 community is going to "solve" the "problem" of trading in keys. Everyone really needs to chill.

After looking at allllll the proof and counterproof, the buys at 4.44 seem to outstrip the sells at 4.55, and most of the listed sales at 4.55 are indeed hard to gauge legitimacy wise.

Current range is fairly accurate; it may deserve raising to 4.44 flat but 4.55 is not common enough to include in the range atm