Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.33–4.55 ref

- If you're going to provide counterproof quoting my proof, do not include "ok" links, please. Why? because some people don't even read and think that quantity = quality

- Let me know if there are some duplicated links

- Complaining about key prices won't help

- Keep it serious.

cool pic by base64: http://i.imgur.com/tpDaoCM.png

don't hate the player, hate the game

Pretty funny how big Long218 is in that picture.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9960807 This link is under 4,55, but it is 4,44.

"don't hate the player, hate the game" There is no game without players.

"After looking at allllll the proof and counterproof, the buys at 4.44 seem to outstrip the sells at 4.55, and most of the listed sales at 4.55 are indeed hard to gauge legitimacy wise.

Current range is fairly accurate; it may deserve raising to 4.44 flat but 4.55 is not common enough to include in the range atm" - Cleverpun, 9 hours ago.

I disagree with this, and agree with you. Upvotah.

Yup, I don't know what is wrong with Cleverpun. I posted screenshots how 2 people added me within 5 minutes to buy Keys from me for 4.66 Ref each. I closed the trade then because this was enough proof that 4.66 is a common price.

I'm a small part of this picture :I

Can people please calm down and stop freaking out about keys?

"Why? because some people don't even read and think that quantity = quality" Funny, that's exactly what you and the other suggestors did when you include current range links.

- Copy pasted the notes to those proofs, which ones got copy pasted from the prev. suggestion. -

Sellers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830214 4.77 ref - - herrabanani 0.22+ For Vintage - Wanted to check KeNo's BP, but his BP set to private so can't check if he has any keys or not. However, 14.77 new ref at the screenshot. 11.66 now,

9.00 of them from KeNo. (Not sure, maybe, but if he really sold keys to him then I think it couldn't be 3, max 2.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954303 4.66 ref - sold nine http://puu.sh/2wQtZ http://puu.sh/2wQxd http://puu.sh/2x1QN - you - I dont really like own proofs, but ok.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9976240 4.66 ref - sold two to "Schiffer" - Raptor - 10 ref from Schiffer, he also have buying thread but ok.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9951550 4.66 ref - sold three - CruS^ - ok

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974629 4.66 ref - sold - DerKolibri - - Reseller, no new ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9976140 4.66 ref - sold to "Tuxedo Mask" http://puu.sh/2xrpB even if the price was 4.55 - J0KER#** - No key at Tuxedo Mask and no new item. But maybe.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936372 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wZpq - tosti007 - ok

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9866349 4.55 ref - sold some http://puu.sh/2wQ3C - Tyye: Please Tell Me to Draw - ok

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936155 4.55 ref - out of stock - TheNinja - Have only 4.11 ref in his bp.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953879 4.55 ref - sold in less than six minutes http://puu.sh/2wPXX - Banetoid - No proof for sold keys. Got his refs from many people. (none of them from KeNo,but as I said, cant check his bp)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953893 4.55 ref - sold in less than four minutes http://puu.sh/2wPVc http://puu.sh/2wPVG - lolz - (changed his name, I guess) His key gone to ice cube, but got 0 ref from him, also checked his new

stuffs, but there was only a pistol and a few scrap. (checked the high five's prev. owner, but didn't found any ref from him/ice cube)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974578 4.55 ref - sold in less than two minutes to "wags" http://puu.sh/2xpnP http://puu.sh/2xplI http://puu.sh/2xpoF - Sm㋛kE Mix?<3 - I guess ok, but couldn't check those refs, they gone and not sure for what. (only 3 ref in his bp atm, no new stuffs)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9976039 4.44 ref - sold three http://puu.sh/2xrko - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953733 4.44 ref - sold two to "Senio" in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2wPGM - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953907 4.44 ref - sold seven in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2wPUl http://puu.sh/2wPSi - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9816848 4.44 ref - out of stock - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9975841 4.44 ref - sold - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974884 4.44 ref - sold in less than two minutes http://puu.sh/2xpHy - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Buyers

4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9973765 - Schiffer - Trade done (Quickbuy?)

4.55 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9927447 - Nick - only 3 ref in his bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9973062 - asesino™ - many adds, lot of new keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9952783 [b]- DerKolibri - no new key

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9960807 - İbarez [TR] - have many keys, sorted bp, not sure if bought any or not (no new key)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9951852 - Jberwan- [IN THE CURRENT RANGE] - 4.44!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9955194 - Clit Commander - "Buying 3 keys for 4.55 each" only 5.33 ref in his bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9718277 - ulcerrock - Trade done (Quickbuy?)

4.50 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974985 - you - "I dont really like own proofs, but ok."

(Note: 4.50 and 4.47 are the same.)

4.47 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9935086 - Final2500 ? - Reselling in the same trade. Trade done.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9956593 - 1st.liitio - Trade done in 3-4 hours.

4.44 ref (yes, it is the high end of the current range)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369579 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9894502 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9907635 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9847965 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9925599 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953764 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9937113 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974385 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959754 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959189 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954554 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9779574 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953429 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9912224 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7492799 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974240 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9943369 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9754494 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9901492 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959189 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9968651 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9193424 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9921358 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953429 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9974759 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9943369 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9976192 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9954003 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9937034 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9950930 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953764 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9912934 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9193424 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9938138 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9927418 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9959189 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9876925 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9901492 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9964652 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830410 - [IN THE CURRENT RANGE]

Downvote. Evidence looking to increasing the prices is sketchy at best.

shut up poncho, you say exactly the same thing on every key suggestion.

I second Ezeon. Shut up. You're like that one homeless guy who keeps predicting the end of the world. No one actually believes him, and he just makes a fool of himself.

well there are something you need to know about Poncho

1. He think he is always right. He consider his logic above other, even proof.

2. If he see anything that support key to lower, he agreed.

And again you say that proof of sales at 4.44 are useless because they are in the current range. Basically you are right, but in this section of proof only the number of people, who are paying a specific price, counts. Ergo if the majority pays more (Up to 0.33 over the high end) than the suggested average price on backpack.tf, the price needs to rise.

Also, you know that alot of guys are keybankers, means that they buy and sell at the same time? Somebody could have sold 20 Keys for 4.77 Ref each and bought 18 new ones for 4.55 Ref each, you can't know about this unless you are able to see the whole inventory history of every single keyseller/keybuyer.

Also, you are mostly looking for new items in the backpack. You can't see if somebody got new items if he/she opened the TF2 or was ingame.

In my eyes your posts looks like "I don't know how many Keys this guy has sold, but there are only 2 new Ref and 7 new Keys in his BP. I don't care if he started the game between the trades so I can't see all new items which he got through trading."

This is not counterproof, this is the hard try to provide some counterproof.

Btw. I will make my test now. I hope you'll enjoy the result.

Wrong.

You (suggestor) want to prove only a new high-end, So then we need proof for thatn not for an already accepted range. (half of them were 4.44..)

"quality =/= quantity"

From prev. suggestion:

|Tf2Hãts| Ezeon69

"ocolus, you do know that some people "key bank" trading keys for metal, and vice versa. So the metal/keys may have been traded but retraded for metal/keys."

My reply:

"That's why I check when I can, the new item's/ metals' / keys' previous owner's bp. (It can cause a lot of trouble, and took a lot of time to try to check all of them. :/)"

Also, most of the time I check the older ref/keys aswell, otherwise most of the "ok" proofs would be invalid.

Ocolus, if we work like this we could call every single keytrade on outpost invalid and not usable as proof.

Just make a trade on outpost that you are selling keys for 4.55/4.66 Ref, this blow away all your "counterproof".

Then why even counterproof?

Or hell, why bother even making any new proof FOR increasing keys, since it seems that anyone with a modicum of patience could just barge in TF2outpost or anywhere else with a lot of traffic and a lot of impulsive buyers that don't even bother do price checks, and have valid proof for increasing prices in under an hour.

@ocolus

You're great, keep being great.

Wrong question.

Why even proof? Why even suggestions? You can use Ocolus' method of providing counterproof everywhere.

I told him to make a trade where he sells Keys for 4.55/4.66. I already did that and I had alot of success. I disproved most of HIS counterproof.

Funny fact: The comment of my experiement got 3 upvotes earlier, now it's one. Basically there is no reason why this comment should be disliked, but the number of upvotes is still decreasing. And why? Because it disproves Ocolus. Everything what supports the suggestion in any way gets downvoted, just like "Out of sight, out of mind".

What if some people put them on the market/raffle away? Your negation isn't entirely solid.

"Funny, that's exactly what you and the other suggestors did when you include current range links."

current range: 4.33-4.44

new range: 4.33-(4.44)-4.55

As a suggestor, I have the job to provide a large amount of proof which supports the new suggested range

tl;dr of ocolus "counterproof"

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9830214 4.77 ref - - herrabanani 0.22+ For Vintage - Wanted to check KeNo's BP, but his BP set to private so can't check if he has any keys or not. However, 14.77 new ref at the screenshot. 11.66 now,

9.00 of them from KeNo. (Not sure, maybe, but if he really sold keys to him then I think it couldn't be 3, max 2.)"maybe"

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953879 4.55 ref - sold in less than six minutes http://puu.sh/2wPXX - Banetoid - No proof for sold keys. Got his refs from many people. (none of them from KeNo,but as I said, cant check his bp)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9953893 4.55 ref - sold in less than four minutes http://puu.sh/2wPVc http://puu.sh/2wPVG - lolz - (changed his name, I guess) His key gone to ice cube, but got 0 ref from him, also checked his new

stuffs, but there was only a pistol and a few scrap. (checked the high five's prev. owner, but didn't found any ref from him/ice cube) "maybe"

the rest is "ok" or "in the current range"

*in the new range

some more proof

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9978740 4.66 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9960947 4.66 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9978172 4.66 ref - sold one http://puu.sh/2xvu8

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9979496 4.66 ref - sold four to "Bobcat"

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9979513 4.66 ref - sold http://puu.sh/2xwiz

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9842511 4.55 ref - out of stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9958946 4.55 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9978547 4.55 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9696833 4.55 ref - sold at least one http://puu.sh/2xvKr , out of stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9979285 4.44 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9944846 4.44 ref - out of stock

Uhm, not exactly.

From 18 seller link:

- 6x ok

- 2x Maybe (your 3rd link is not)

- 6x in the current range

- 4x "not ok"

From 51 buyer link:

- 41x in the current range

- 1x have enough metal for only 1 key (wanted 3 / Maybe)

- 1x dont have enough ref for even 1 key

ok:

- 4x (1x at 4.55, 1x at 4.66 and the 2x 4.47 ones) closed quickly. (Looks like quickbuyers but ok.)

- 4x another ok

Can't check the new proofs now, already wasted too much time on them today. (Will have math exam tomorrow, so still have to study a lot. ;P)

Almost forgot, cause: "Will have math exam tomorrow"

->that's why I didn't waste time on the current range trades today, and yesterday. ("worse quality") Sorry for that.

http://puu.sh/2xwSr

One minute, 12 Views, 3 Keys

http://puu.sh/2xwWk *COUGH* Oh god

2 Keys

11 Keys

1 Key

1 Key

All adds for 4.55 Ref.

EDIT:

http://puu.sh/2xxbt

Added me after I closed the trade several minutes ago. 2 Keys

nice counterproof i downvote

You have 0 suggestions. You have 450 votes, 61.33% of them that were accurate.

Mattje has 51 total suggestions. 94.12% of those were accepted. He has 2069 votes 95.12% of them were accurate. (note he has 0 keys.)

Not saying that my vote / suggestion record is better...

However Mattje's is.

Ithinkheknowswhathe'sdoing.

If you're going to provide counterproof quoting my proof, do not include "ok" links, please. Why? because some people don't even read and think that quantity = quality

a direct jab at ocolus who has done a tremendous job of cutting through a lot of BS. and also ironic since i think a lot of previous key suggestions passed precisely because no one looked at the many many many links in the proofs! ocolus came in and went to every link and analyzed the results. and it turned out that what do you know, many of the links were, in fact, bogus.

what i really want to know is why do key price suggestions have to be made with so much pre-emptive vitriol. do you guys all worship at the altar of long???

how about starting with: "i know people don't like key suggestions that show the price rising, but i have proof that shows this is indeed the case". instead of launching into a tirade that disses 90% of the trading community as morons as if you were somehow superior.

i find this proof compelling - (staying neutral for now) - but i find you and the most recent spew of key price suggesters abhorrent simply due to your attitude...

#SAVETEHKEYZZZZ

It was funny the first time, but not anymore.

Ok, so this is how it went down...

Long218: Hey guys, my suggestion didn't work );

KingOfHeart: FUCK, mine didn't either.

mattje: What the hell is going on? I thought we were "Major Contributors" and got everything passed?

Long218: I got it, it's that fucking "ocolus" guy.

KingOfHeart: Hmmm, maybe if I make another suggestion he won't notice it and it'll get passed!

mattje: Fuck that, I'll make one with the same range and provide even worse proof. How does that sound?

Long218: Mother of God, greatest idea EVER!

KingOfHeart: Fuck yeah, man. And when yours goes up I'll make one too for shits and giggles :3

Yeah...

You deserve a permaban for this in my opinion. Treating normal people like this just because they are/were reporting the accurate price for a virtual item is just stupid and makes you look like a child. This isn't a counterargument for the new keyprice, it's just a poor insult against 3 guys who are smarter than others and know how an economy works.

Come on, provide proof that you can somewhat easily buy Keys for 4.33 Ref each.

In short, just for you: They got proof for a new keyprice, you have nothing against it.

seriously dude? you're threatening some guy with a ban (that you have no power to enforce) simply because they post something half between funny and truth? you do realize that long now is on a vendetta against the entire trading community, right? and that mattje seems to worship long's notoriety.

these past few suggestions have been way more vitriolic than this one guy who you take issue with.

you guys are like the pathetic little lawyer wannabees on tf2r "did he just say rep!?!?!" - c'mon man - i found the clearly made up exchange funny. get a sense of humour. some of you guys have completely forgotten how to have fun.

Oh, so I threaten him? I said that he DESERVES a ban IN MY OPINION. Ofc I have no power to enforce anyone, I just told him what I he deserves and what I would do.

Won't read the rest of your post. You mostly scramble and set the facts from other posts to sentences how you need them so you abuse those for your own accusation.

thanks for proving my point

It's ok. This guy is only mad because he also has keys pouring out of his ass and wants the key's price to go up :3

Don't know if trolling or stupid.

If this suggestions gets through, I earn 5.33 Ref. 5.33 useless Ref, because I didn't buy my Keys with metal but unusuals n' promos.

I won't argue with you anymore, people like you give me headaches.

Just catched "Get a sense of humor".

Are you serious? It's not funny anymore. After at least 100 similar posts, which were all the same, it's just not funny anymore.

The guys accuse keysuggesters for everything. They think that it's funny for us to raise the price, they think that we get accepted everything because we are "major contributors".

No, this is even more worse than "owns: xxx, going for own benfit, downvote."

"owns: xxx, going for own benefit, downvote." It's because it's true. You guys only support the raising price of keys because you have 168 keys in your fucking backpack and it's a major benefit to you and these other guys.

It may not be most original joke ever but seriously it doesn't need such overreaction and butthurtness

Their not smarter and they sure as hell don't know how the economy works.

I'm trying to say that they're not providing good proof whatsoever and they don't give a fuck. And even when their vote fails miserably, they make another similar to it. Of all people you have sympathy for these guys? If I'm making myself look like a child, then you're making yourself look like a complete dumbass for trying to argue over something that I made up from my perspective for shits and giggles :3

All I have to say to you is CALM THE FUCK DOWN, BRO.

And by the way, you deserve a permasskicking :3

It surprises me how there's some people willing to spend 4.77 for a key.

From now, I'll buy my keys from TF2Shop: I'd rather spend some bucks than idle for a month trying to buy a key with metal.

It surprises me how people were willing to be paying 4.00 for keys....

I think I never bought a key with metal, just sold 'em.

I think that's the point; a lot of these guys sell keys, and if keys are too expensive to buy with metal it will drive you to pay with real world money.

Tf2shop is expensive as hell, you can get keys cheaper at soruceop

there's a reason: people are willing to pay more than 4.44 ref.

did you even read?

people willing to pay 4.55ref and even more ...

willing to pay 4.66...

Believe me, people will not pay any more than they have to for an item. If the right proof is shown then it deserves to to be given a raise. I think they should have to show at least 1 rec change tho. Most other items get laughed at if you are trying to change it by so little.

This is all outpost's fault for selling keys a rec or more above what backpack.tf is saying. If this goes on, ref will keep falling until key prices hit double what they are now.

All I can say is yyyaaaayyyy............

downvote. stop ruining economics with key price suggesting. Also tf2oupost traders love to sell above backpack.tf scrap.tf price for 1-4 scrap.

Stop ruining backpack.tf with your stupid comments

using your logic:

let's remove all the sellers

b-but buyers, where are they?

I see you care very much about fair prices of the TF2 economy, I mean just look at all your great trades:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/993631selling keys for 4 craft hats (5.33 refined

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9914348 selling keys for 3 Tour of Duty Tickets (at least 6 refined, but easily more)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9913958 buying craft hats for 1.11 refined (2 scraps under craft hats price)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9936314 **

well, cause of stupid suggesting price of keys are rising. + my trades = i dont force anyone to do it :P. While key suggesting = change price for EVERYONE.

You do realise you are one of the many people which contributes to higher key prices right?

@Baloo.

And? It is my personal business :)[looks like you have never wanted to buy stuff cheaper than market price :P.] It doesn't affect whole market like this suggesting thing. Changing price of something every few day/weekly is stupid. And we all know there is a positively feedback between backpack.tf and tf2outpost price.

+ I have reviewed old key price suggestions, why suggestion with NEGATIVE points are accepted?!?!

This is the problem with some people today. They say they want key prices to decrease, but they are helping to cause or further the problem. When you show them this then they simply state that: "I'm just one person, how could I possibly make a difference in key prices?" The truth is alone you do not, but when multiple people adapt the same mentality, then you have a large amount of people selling keys for higher and higher forcing someone that wishes to purchase a key to have to pay a higher amount. These sales, combined over time, is what is causing keys to spiral upwards out of control. You're personal business is effecting everyone as you strive to turn a profit in the TF2 economy.

They say they want key prices to decrease, but they are helping to cause or further the problem.

1)Key = Currency, the MUST HAVE item if you are trading, and so changing price on one item affects Everyone. Unlike my highballish items which are not must have or have big demand like key. [What does affect economy more? Currency rate (like euro/usd and etc) or if one guy sells something for 1.5x times more expensive than it should be.]

2)I set my few trades to actually see if anyone buys(key->tod, key>hat).

It is obvious price is highballish. so other people who want to sell item WONT copy my price. And even if they copy it, hardly anyone will buy it.

3)If my highballish price was on the currency item like key. I will actually affect economy a lot.

You're saying you conducted a social test expecting no ramifications or consequences? Anyways it is already known that the price of keys effects the price of other items priced in keys relative to refined, but most people are still willing to pay the same number of keys regardless. If an item is more commonly traded for keys, then the price should reflect that. Its also easier since most people don't pay 130 refined for a salvaged crate #30, but mist likely they'll pay 30 keys.

So selling keys above the market price being one of the "highballers" doesnt contribute to the increase in keys...what logic is that?

It's because every trader on tf2 is out to get a profit which inflates the prices (you're a pretty damn good example) forcing everyone to pay more.

if everyone is selling a key for 5refs you're not gonna be selling for 4 refs now are you??

You complaining about increase key prices and you're selling at a highballing price. Oh god the logic

Negative or not, everyone is biased with promo suggestions, open a trade Lowering keys to a bs price, with no proof and nothing and you'll get a few hundred upvotes.

you are lying to yourself if you think everyone is honest

wait... where are the 4.33? no proof of 4.33?

If there's proof of buying 4.44, you don't need proof for 4.33...

Sold 60+ at 4.66 over the past week, am i going to have to get a bunch of screen shots of my trade history or is there an easier way/can that even be considered proof considering it's very easy to photoshop something like that ?

screenies are welcome.

http://s10.postimg.org/eehho44u1/Untitled_2.jpg

thanks for supporting the suggestion, unfortunately I can't edit the pinned post anymore

wasn't one of these just rejected....?

because poor proof.

We need long, least he has valid proofs

is the price of keys going up or as most ppl are saying price of metal is going down.

One thing is causing the other.

the only thing to do with metal is to craft hats with 3 refined.and there arent many good hats/ misc to craft. and its chaper to use 2 craft hats(2.66) so metal is just becoming useless.

For the love of gaben, here we go again.

Please make a stipulation or something, 50 suggestions or 1000 contribution points to touch currencies.

Wouldn't change anything since mattje has already 48 accepted suggestions and ~3200 points + nearly 96% of all his/her votes (828 votes) were correct!

Oh yes, I do not have a problem with this person's suggestion, but to stop the key suggestions..EVERY. DAY. ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)

It's actually the market which is raising the keyprice, we are only reporting the price on backpack.tf with pricesuggestions :<

I mean it's not our fault that people are buying for [backpack.tf price + 0.22 Ref] . If the buyers stop buying keys for these high prices, the sellers need to lower their price.

At first I thought it was the endless cycle of "let's get +1 refined" but then after looking at a great thread on the forums (Let me see if I can find that) It's suprising how useless metal is becoming. I just wish we could ease into it, instead of literally costing 2 keys to buy 1 key from a year ago. :C

It's actually 1/2 to 3/4 of a year.

Now we wait for oculus...

I could disprove ocolus' counterproof in less than 10 minutes if I wanted to.

Do it then.

Ocolus is not here yet, no need for me to waste my time to find some extra proof.

Disproved ocolus with my experiement.

I think you need a bit more proof of sales at 4.55 and 4.66.

working on that

I'll buy one for 3.66 (you had a typo)

A typo? In one of my posts?! NUUUUUUUUUU D:

Thank you for letting me know.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9921408

sold over 72keys

for 4.55

and from 09.04. for 4.66

last client today

http://www10.pic-upload.de/10.04.13/ajpfxm56654m.jpg

my bp history:

07.04 http://www10.pic-upload.de/10.04.13/kd4i85bmzvwf.jpg - 72keys

10.04 (today) http://www10.pic-upload.de/10.04.13/6fumcv7eaji9.jpg - 1key

I bought craft hats and other stuff with metal, that's why i dont have over 300ref, for people who think i try to manipulate something.

I just have one key atm so this wouldnt inscrease my bp value.

http://www10.pic-upload.de/10.04.13/cx7fcxwzgqi.jpg +15$ bp value

i hope this is enough

thanks for supporting the suggestion

http://www7.pic-upload.de/10.04.13/nba2rsct5yt.jpg

3 more for 4.66 each

The Key Price at http://tf2finance.com/keys/ will keep increasing, since you guys increase the value of the key here.

Key price increase>Tf2finance key price increase>Key price increase> Tf2finance key price increase.

And guess what, it will go on and go on like that and it will not go down.

The current key price is 4.33-4.44 refined yet since April 7, 3 days ago, the graph has been showing that the daily average sale price has been between 4.44-4.55 refined.

We stop reporting the price>TF2F keyprice increases>Still not reporting the current price>TF2F keyprice still increases.

It'll go on like that till the price starts crashing.

> implying the keys will crash

As the average goes up, the volumes get smaller and smaller.

Small pool = Higher susceptibility

Not sure on this one. I'll just remain neutral for now.

Didn't we do this already twice the past 2 days?

Give it a rest already.

Upboat.

Reason TF2Finance is so high: price manipulators with 100's of alts are trading keys to their alts for high prices that are still in the range to be counted. Have you noticed those sudden spikes in volume? That is when people are manipulating the price. With only 50-200 key trades a day, manipulating is a piece of cake with some friends/alts. Don't tell me they can detect it, their alt account detection system is flawed.

Reason OP is full of highballs that sold: there are always idiots. I saw people buying keys for 5 refined, simply because they had lots of metal. My brother has sold keys for 4.66 when they were still 3.88.

Reason there are buyers at high prices: because they can do what I listed above.

Metal isn't even going down that much. It's price is going down because of keys going up. Why? Because everyone thinks the inverse is true, and they say key price in $ / metal = metal price in $. Long218 even indirectly said this with this image: http://i.imgur.com/l9d7r4i.png He wants to raise the price of keys, to decrease metal's value.

Also, the vicious cycle. Everyone dismisses it as bullshit, but after seeing everything happen in first person, I know how it works. It is actually real. There is just enough idiots not looking any further than the first page of outpost, and a lot of idiots who think they can sell for more.

Anyways, I want to stop this stupid crap as soon as possible.

Peace!

-RC

again with this thing?

even if you're right, I have posted multiple 4.44 ref buyers and 4.55 ref successful buyers/sellers

A range of 4.44-4.55 would be more accurate but let's make it with little steps

This is the major problem. There is too much of a reliance on proof. This is the very reason the feedback loop here exists. I already see a key crash coming. Why? Have you seen how little trades take place? Only 50-200 trades a day in a 4.5 million player community. That's nothing. Demand is plummeting. Keys will crash.

keys will crash, they are not crashing atm.

They are however, close to crashing. Imagine the amount of people buying keys, being an ascending plane's engines. Less and less people are buying keys. The engines produce less lift. The plane starts to slow and slow, until it eventually stalls. When a plane starts stalling, it will be almost impossible to recover. The plane is coming closer to the ground, closer and closer. Key traders will be jizzing their pants, while the people who want to buy keys, not for profit, are extremely happy. Meanwhile I am there, sitting on the sideline. Watching everything crash and burn, while looking forward to the future, and hoping the community will realize its mistake.

You forgot a few about the 4.5 million players:

- Some are trade banned

- Alot do not trade and just play the game

- Some are just alts

- Some do not trade with Keys

- Some do not trade anymore

- Alot of traders do not sell their Keys for metal

- And last but not least: Alot stopped playing TF2

No. Nononono. You are wrong, you know it and you keep posting it.

You do NOT know how TF2F tracks the price of Keys.

At first, nobody is able to manipulate TF2F. It's counting sales of Keys which are a bit off the average price, I think it goes up to about 0.33 Ref difference +/-. Ergo it would take years to manipulate the current price, even if it was possible.

Secondly, TF2F is only counting the price of one Key in a trade. Somebody could sell 300 Keys for 4.66 Ref each in a single trade, only the price of one Key will be taken to make the average price.

The third and last point: TF2F tracks the IPs of all users. The system knows if somebody is just trading some Keys to an alt or something similar, those trades won't be considered. Also, you can't manipulate the price if you trade with your friends. After a short time the system knows what the person is trying to do (if the "manipulator" is constantly making Key:Ref trades and visa versa.). All trades made by this guy won't be taken into the average keyprice.

Oh, and about the TF2OP-idiots, how you call them: Then there must be a shit ton of idiots, since nearly everybody is trading for the high price of backpack.tf or even more.

Long's post? Sarcasm. Nothing else. He was pissed off by all these useless comments and fights against him.

Dude, you have no idea how wrong you are. you can trade single keys to your alts for 0.33 more than the current price. You can easily get a couple hundred trades in a day with your alts, which is more than all the actual trades taking place, so you can easily manipulate it.

Oh, and about the IP tracking thing, how do you know that?

If there were IP tracking, it would depend on the type. If it tracks internal IP, it could easily be changed in computer settings. If it tracks external IP, you could have multiple machines running on multiple networks. Or you just trade all of your key hoarder friends.

It's more like that you don't know how wrong you are.

Btw. about this "Only 50-200 key trades a day" is wrong. I posted under ocolus' comment that I got added by 6 people to trade away 20 Keys for 4.55 Ref each. All in 5 minutes, and that's only me. Imagine how it looks like if you get the number of adds from only 25% of all keysellers.

I disprove all your points, the discussion is over for me.

@VoIpiii, you know Dynamic IP exists.

Can you stop these baseless accusations?

Shit is getting serious when base himself starts posting.

Who am I accusing of what?

I didn't want a gem like this to go to waste:

http://imgur.com/ePEPJBj

repost, go out

I made it myself, so I basically have the right to repost it.

SO WHAT IF PEOPLE ARE PAYING MORE THAN USUAL??? I THOUGHT PRICE WAS SET ON DEMAND AND SUPPLY NOW PRICE IS SET BY THE FREAKIN BUYERS OF KEYS!!!! SO WHAT IF THEY PAY MORE STUPID THEM LET THEY OVERPAY AND DONT MAKE A HIGHER PRICE SUGGESTION YEAH IM ON CAPS!

So basically everybody is overpaying. Great logic.

With TF2F being at 4.5 Ref (stable), the current range is outdated. Deal with it.

bought for 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9863377

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9847268

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9889998

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9914038

did you notice that the range is 4.33-4.55 ?

Upvoting. Reluctantly.

this comment will get -6000

9 hours ago - score: -1

well that went better than expected

I know trade servers don't count but I've had plenty of ease buying for 4 ref each, I don't know why anyone would buy keys off of outpost though as they usually average about a scrap over whatever the current standard price is.

trade history screenshots are welcome.

I'll have to look into that

Where do you think the people selling at 4.55 are getting them? ;)

(Sorry about that, some weird double posting glitch... Not sure what happened there.)

I think the current price of keys is just fine... why do people want to keep upping the price?!?!?! downvote

did you even look at the proof?

The current price is totally fine, traders are just having success at 4.66 Ref and so on. TF2F is currently at 4.5 Ref.

For everybody who doesn't understand higher forms of jokes: This was sarcasm.

Yes, I did look at the proof, but im also just saying my opinion

And you downvote due to your opinion. It's just showing that you don't want that the keyprices keeps rising.

Votes on keysuggestion don't count that much anymore, just because most of them are based on the opinion.

So if people don't care about proof anymore, why should the mods care about votes?

It wouldn't be a bad thought that after 4 days of failed 4.55 bumps, the key price should stay untouched for a while.

Excellent... My plan to move finance up with using my alts is working flawlessly

*rubs hands together*

Soon my dad will be proud of me!

I spend a lot of time and money running my 10 computers

I trade keys between my alts 24/24h

So tf2finance will go up

So I'll make a scrap profit

could be a large steam group, trade bots, ect

Yep agreed, I sold about 3-4 keys just 5 minutes after post for 4.77 ref

can you post screenshot of your trade history? that would count as proof, thanks

I'm pretty new to suggestions and comments, can you guide me on how to put the picture here

just upload the picture on sites like tinypic, imgur or hybrid upload, and put the link of the img here

http://oi48.tinypic.com/4r9k6v.jpg

thank you!

One wonders what wisdom there is trying to connect economics so tightly with a bunch of pixels that Valve could take away from you in an instant. TF2 Finance has almost a zealous following, and according to those who are a part of it's group, it is completely, utterly, totally infallible, and anyone who dares question this is the worst kind of person imaginable. It is like the only part of the game that is fun for you guys is making comments and making suggestions on backpack.tf and not through the game these items come from.

Let me explain this to you more eloquently than a thousand carefully crafted sonnets could ever hope to achieve. You see an economics parable and try to explain metal to ref ratios with proof that easily is torn apart. All I see are a bunch of losers who are trying to raise the price of a few extra pixels and don't give two shits about playing the game. If you are that obsessed with the economic aspect of the game that the only fun that you can have is to insult people who disagree with you, and that your answer is the only answer, you seriously need to pull yourself away from your computer and seriously rethink your life decisions.

And Long is no hero or savior. i would not want him to be on my friends list, considering his previous history. If you are that dedicated to defending someone with such a malicious history, what that does that tell you who you are as a human being?

Don't hate the game. Hate the idiots whose only sense of fun is to make a virtual backpack worth more to stroke their egos, and insult others who do not think like them.. It was a load of shit when it started in October, and it is a load of shit now.

Why aren't there more people like you on .TF?

Oh, because they all left the site yonks ago. Now it's just a hovel.

In addition, what is the point of pissing off the entire trading community just so you can more pixels off of another item like keys... when you are trying to make the other item worthless, and bog down trading altogether? You basically are creating an environment where no one really gains anything. The reason why people who support these key price hikes get negative scores is not because they want to have cheaper prices. It's because it's the same old people are spouting off their support AGAIN AND AGAIN, and there comes a time where they don't want to here anymore of it.

This hero worship towards Long218 mystifies me, considering his history with this site and trading. He trolls a price suggestion for buds to be worth 0.22-0.44 refined for shits and giggles, and gets banned for it. He deliberately names himself Key Manipulator for one of his key suggestions, spams key suggestions that get accepted despite overwhelmingly negative scores, and believes that his 600+ keys are not an issue, He is caught KNOWINGLY buying carded keys, admitting to storing them on an alt, and trying to suggest the process to another player. SOP has banned him, he is indefinitely tradebanned by Valve, this site stripped him of his monthly donating status, and has been banned from making key suggestions because he did a pair of them even after the admins warned him not to. And yet there are those who will bend over backwards trying to defend him. It just boggles the mind, and really makes you think of why people would want to list him as a friend

There is no denying Long has done some serious damage to the credibility of this site, by spamming these key suggestions and spamming vitriol on the site, who brags about being warned by the admins, who brags about his comments getting negative scores, and the admins are tired of hearing this bullshit. Yet now there are dedicated defenders for Long218 that have turned into clones of him, and they don't care about your opinions, because only theirs matter. The site will have problems with the rest of the community at large if this negativity keeps up on this site.

One thing really speaks out to me. By the end of this next month, keys will have more than likely be double what they were last year, and there is only one reason all of this has happened to us....

... pretty much the whole thing was done for the shits and giggles, by a few rotten apples that fell from the tree that don't give two shits about the game...

umad bro

It's not about being mad. It's about not seeing the logic in the whole fracas these past six months

The only real thing to do is to help ocolus out and/or wait for keys to crash.

Stop Ezeon69, you say the same thing in every suggestion. This sounds familiar to what you responded to me. Stop whining about how people are giving legit logic and stop trying to defend these suggestions that are complete and utter BS. Saying "Umad bro" and "stop whining and make yourself useful" is not quite helpful for your own case...

Coming from you. All you are is what you're saying I am- someone whining. If you want to do something for keys, be like ocolus.

I don't think anyone can possibly be like ocolus, and I personally don't always have the time to do what he is doing. I'm surprised with how much work and effort he has put into checking proof of these suggestions to keep the economy out of total collapse. Also, explain how exactly I am whining about anything, as I am not and am just proving out a point.

Whining about me saying "umad bro".

It's a free comment section, excluding vulgarity/racism, etc. You can't make me not say something I want to.

How is that whining, you didn't quite hit my question right. Also, if anything, you are the one whining by saying "umad bro" at a completely logical statement that someone posted.

Because you are trying to make me stop commenting against key decreasers. As I said again, it's a free comment section.

Poncho, there's one problem with your argument. Just one. You keep going on about how sad it is that people care so much about virtual items... On a virtual item pricelist... That's like going to a football game and telling all the fans that it doesn't matter if their team wins. All that guy is doing is being a jerk, and everyone wonders why that guy is there if he doesn't care about the game.

Not a good analogy. You have idiots who frequent this site who bitch, moan and whine about why anyone should craft just because they are afraid to lose one measly dollar by crafting 3 refined together. It is at this point that there are those that are active on this site who worry about every single little transaction, who whine about losing one little scrap... one wonders why we are so up at arms against losing just one dollar.

backpack why did you reject the last 4.33 - 4.55 suggestion?

You talk about accuracy but you don't want to bump up the price?

4.33-4.55 is already inaccurate ;(

stop plz

ohh btw if anyone sees long tel hem he earned this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18642216/long218%20simulator/lolkeys.html

le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le le

you are so late

I'm very impressed with you for raising a key price and only having metal in your BP.

I sold all my keys and put'em on my proof, so more proof and less people complaining about keys in my backpack.

Eh, they complain anyway. Wouldn't matter.

I believe that keys should go to 4.44-4.66. I sold over 23 keys for 4.66 and I'm sure at 4.44 they will go even faster. People are willing to pay the 4.66, but that's me

Didn't we shoot this down a couple days ago!?

Nobody shot it done, either TF2F was fluctuating too much or the proof was bad.

I don't like key suggestions. I don't like the stupid market. I don't like anything to do with keys suggestions. I want them to go down. I want to buy cheap keys for un-crating because that is all I use keys for.

Good day to you all.

Downvoters in a nutshell

We downvoters only want keys to un-crate. Why must we pay this much to get a key.

Hey guys, April Fool's day ended nine days ago. You can stop.

...Guys?

Oh shit, I think they're delusional.

☣Long218 Can't trade 5ever

4.33-4.44 ref Score: -241

Accepted 4 days ago

Always the same guys, with one million keys in the backpack. wanting to increase the price, and with negative -241 is still accepted, why have a vote in bp.tf if this site just accept every sugestion to raise the price of keys? lel

and The proof is a guy with one billion keys in backpack, buying 1 key for 5 ref

"wanting to increase the price, and with negative -241 is still accepted, why have a vote in bp.tf if this site just accept every sugestion to raise the price of keys? lel"

I would post a shit ton of closed keysuggestions which were rising the price if puu.sh would work right now..

Nvm, Why do mods still accept suggestions with a negative score?

> People vote by opinion, they mostly do not look at the proof, they don't want that the price rises. The just want cheap Keys.

And, well.. Why should the mods care about downvotes if the downvoters don't care about proof?

Then just because i downvote, i don't care about proof, now i understand why keys raise so much, sorry lord, btw, a Score -241 can be a proof, AND why have a vote in this site if only the proof have importance? so the opinion of everyone is bullshit (except guys with a bunch of keys and your alt accs)

Acid, this website was made to give normal traders the chance to report accurate prices. We just can't go only by the votes of other users who mostly want cheap keys.

If we just go by the votes, this would be manipulating the price. It's a false report and this is not what the website was supposed to be used for.

TF2F is at 4.53 Ref right now, we have proof of sales at 4.55 and 4.66 Ref, how doesn't affect that the price?

Expect this suggestion being accepted with a -100 score, this time it'll pass.

''If we just go by the votes, this would be manipulating the price.''

seriously? the right imo is

''If we not go by the votes, this would be manipulating the price.''

in my country people decide things in that way, and seems quite fair, but this is TF2 and i understand your POV, bye

Upvoted, sold 6 keys for 4.55 last night.

before ppl say some my metal from the keys is missing. I used it in crafting, and sold some crafts and kept some.

A screenshot from your tradehistory would be better.

You do not need a screen shot - ATM any seller with 4.55 key price is considered as GOD SEND

well 7 to be exact http://i.imgur.com/RShlUL1.png

Well, I am willing to bet money that this post is either going to get downvoted to hell or get completely blow-torched.

Because prices here at Backpack.tf are user-voted, it essentially means we can decided the prices. Now here we go to the point I am making.

As long as keys continue to increase in price, (or in this case, metal continues to DECREASE in price) this will hurt the economy.

For those without keys, it will be increasingly harder to get keys via trading, this will also hurt new traders because it's now going to be harder for them to obtain currency items.

For those with keys, the rise of keys will eventually come back to bite them. Think for a moment. If keys rise up to say 6 ref (which from the looks of it, is going to happen.) how increasingly hard will it be to get keys? In the end, those with keys may of wasted their time now that no one will be trading for keys because they are too hard to get. And not to mention, what's the point of keys anymore? Selling is too difficult cause of the high price so we might as well as start unboxing. This will and yes, mark my words, will end up destroying the economy. Metal will become valueless because within TF2 there is an infinite amount, and keys will end up losing their value because selling them will be too hard. Those with unusuals and buds should also watch out, as the rise of keys is making unusual prices plummet. Some "cancer" unusuals that used to be at about 20ish keys have now even dropped into the 8 key range. Now I am not here to ask people to spam downvotes on every key rise thread, but it's just a head's up.

Sorry, but we don't decide prices here, we just report the average keyprice, nothing else. We can stop reporting it here, but it won't save the keys from the inflation.

Btw. If nobody is trading Ref for Keys anymore, the price will go down. Good old Supply:Demand theory.

Well, yes. We do report this price, but it's the public itself that votes on these prices. Now of course, I am not going to ask everyone to ignore/downvote key suggestions but it's not that keys are going up. It's that metal is going down. That's why no one is trading for keys using metal. It's due to that metal is becoming worthless.

How many times does it have to be said that key to metal ratio is stable?

Even after months with this same trend?

Just wondering, exactly what does a stable ratio have to do with prices?

In that disproving the "metal is worthless" argument. since most of the time it is based on metal being more and more abundant compared to keys.

Now, in total, or compared to other things, that may be different.

Here's some things to think about.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - currently has keys at 4.52 ref

http://tf2spreadsheet.traderempire.com/mann-co-supply-crate-key-price/3/ - currently has keys at 4.44-4.55

Bp.tf - the "current" price is 4.33-4.44, last updated 4 days ago

While it was not an intentional move on our part to "freeze" the suggested price on bp.tf for 4 days, circumstances happened that led to the most recent suggestions being denied. This has allowed a period of time for the market to move, while we have an outdated price. While this sample size is very low, it shows that the market price for keys is actually increasing, even if we didn't report the change. Take what you will from this opportunistic test (it is not suitable to be called an experiment), the current trend in keys is that the price is rising, regardless of what we did.

There was a question posed about the validity of tf2finance. While I do not know what software base64 uses to track key prices, I do know that base64 is an intelligent person, and he has most likely planned for trading between alts to artificially inflate price. While his website should not be used as direct proof, it does show the general trends in key sales. Also, I do not see why a trader would want to trade back and forth with an alt in the first place. Let us assume that the trader changes his IP address every time he makes a trade between his alt, which is being manually controlled from a separate computer. Each trade takes about 10-30 seconds, and an IP change takes over a minute to accomplish. It would take the manpower of two people for an hour to make 60 trades. As volpii has showed, he got 20 adds for keys in a matter of 5 minutes. Assuming he had enough keys, he would have sold 20 keys in less than 10 minutes, significantly more than an alt-trader could have accomplished. Therefore, I do not think trading among alts is a valid counter. It may be the case that tf2finance doesn't track every single trade, and (unless base64 were actually a valve employee), it would be very improbable to track everything. However, the data from tf2finance has been fairly accurate in the past, even when compared to valve's own graphs (by the valve economist), and so I do not find an issue with them now.

A real world analogy would be the present situation for bitcoins. Bitcoins are mined from processing power, aren't backed by anything, and is a decentralized form of currency. Recently, people have started to invest in bitcoins, especially Greece. This has caused bitcoins to increase in price, The supply of bitcoins available increases somewhat steadily, because there are always miners trying to get more, and the difficulty of mining increases. This is similar to people buying keys from the mann co store. Then, people trade bitcoins for goods or services. This is like trading keys for items or hats. http://www.bitcoinbullbear.com/ - this is a graph of the bitcoin trading, notice the "live tracker" and the apparent huge dip in price. Now, I know there are a lot of differences between bitcoins and tf2 trading, but the general concepts are similar, especially how both of these are not supported by anything, and their value potentially could be completely wiped the next day. And yet, economies will form.

For now, keys are still rising in price. When it will stop, I don't know.

I'd say that we would need more than four days to see if letting the price not get adjusted doesn't curb the price increase in TF2F. And for TF2F to have a larger sample size, because right now it is just simply too small.

And I would avoid making comparisons to Bitcoin, what with it crashing down right now and being nothing but an experiment that spiralled out of control and is now controlled by scammers, illicit good traffickers and all other sorts of really shady people, while being backed by the kind of people that fall into ponzi schemes repeatedly.

Only base64 himself can testify about the sample size tf2f draws from, although I am under the impression that it is not very small.

Indeed, I did say that bitcoin is very different from this economy. But there are parallels, whether they be good or bad...

Another difference being that keys do have a (small) intrinsic value, what with them also being used for uncrating and the difficulty in "creating" keys will never go up (unless Valve changes the price on them in the Mann Co store).

But you do have a point.

One funny thing is that bitcoins can't be obtained from nothing. All bitcoins are mined, and the only way to make more is to mine it. The amount of processing power to mine bitcoins (by cracking hashes) is pretty intensive. It has already gone beyond the capabilities of CPU or GPU mining, and most advanced miners now use ASICs. With keys, provided that you are willing to pay $2.49 each, you can buy limitless quantities of them. So in theory, it would actually be easier to inflate the key market. Although I do agree, keys can be used for unboxing purposes, and it can be "fun" to unbox.

Yeah, the Bitcoing mining arms race is pretty widely known, and amusing given how much drama it has provided. Interesting as well since it ends limiting Bitcoin mining to the few willing to spend hundreds of USD just to keep up.

But I digress, and remember that unboxing is also a crucial part of the economy,since a lot of items can only be found in crates.

Actually, that makes me think that if less and less people kept uncrating and instead hoard the keys for their trading value (very hypothetical, it would take for a very large amount of people to stop uncrating), the prices on crate only items would eventually start to rise, and maybe even making uncrating more profitable. I wonder how that would affect the price of keys.

STOP RAISING THE PRICE OF KEYS YOU IDIOTS!!!!!

because posting like that is very effective.

You know you guy's don't have to keep raising the price just because people are selling for a bit more right..? Just because people sell for a little bit higher doesn't mean the price needs to be changed.. O well, it doesn't matter you'll just keep trying to change the price till it's accepted~

People may try to sell for whatever they like, but it is the sales that matter. When people are willing and able to buy for higher and higher price, then the price will go up as demonstrated by the buying links.

Mostly because we aren't YET at the point where it is more profitable to buy straight from the Mann Co store.

When that does happen, expect the bubble to burst. Keys are the blood of TF2 trading, and it can only be drained up so far.

Yawn, tell me when the bubble bursts. I'll be just as happy as you if key prices legitimately return to 2.66 refined.

Exactly that. IF the TF2 community starts realising that when ppl are selling highball, we should not make them the favour and buy highball, then the number of highball sellers will go down. Plain logic. Example given, 5 ppl sell the same car; the car's state value is x. The first seller is selling the car at x+1, the rest at x+2. What should be done? The 1st seller must rise the car's price at x+2? Ofc not because no matter how many idiot will buy the car at the high price of x+2, someone will finally find that the 1st seller's price is the best, and he will buy it from him. At the pass of time, he will regularely be selling cars at lower price than the others, while they will be waiting to catch a fish OR they should bring the prices down. That's the model of competitive market. Of course, its so obvious that someone wants the TF2 market to crash, hence the key price bubble. (excuse me for possible bad english grammar)

omggg guys why are buds 27 keys now?!?!/ i remember when they used to be 10 refined wtf?!!?? what is thissss #budinflation

^ Their 25 - 26 keys :P

I'm tired of new TF2 players making any headway in the economy anyway. Upvote, says I.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/78501 lol, you quoted backpack.tf's price in the comment you made that got you banned from outpost, and seriously: 4th ban?

You sure do like links.

Not like it makes me lose any money.

And I know you're thinking the exact same thing, I've just got the balls to say it.

Define what it is and who I'd be saying it to because if you're referring to bashing people's trades, then I can assure that I have the maturity to restrain myself from discriminating against someone due to the chance of being banned. Luckily backpack.tf has much more lax rules, so I can get by with bashing someone's suggestion.

No, you know exactly what I mean.

Quit backing into a self righteous corner and know that you don't like when new people enter the economy. They take their piece of the pie, and it leaves less for you. If they have keys, they can get nice things. Nice things that they might not want you to have.

New people entering into the TF2 economy is a good thing. That gives sellers such as yourself more suckers to buy items from cheaply in order to fuel making more profit. I do not have enough resources nor wants in TF2 to desire for some item that another newer trader wishes to buy. Most, if not all, of these new traders will not interfere with my main goal in TF2 which is buying a Sunbeams Crown, so quite frankly I do not care about new traders. For these same reasons I would not want to try and discourage these new traders since they will most likely be the ones to buy my items for full backpack.tf price because most of the veteran traders know that it only is a matter of time before they can get someone selling for less than normal price.

Also, here's another thing. New traders look up to veteran traders to teach them the ropes. If no one is wanting to lend them a hand, then it can lead them to do things, say for example buying keys higher than the amount of which is specified on backpack.tf and/or the spreadsheet that no one likes anymore *cough* *cough*.

There is something very cheesy about this, can't tell what though...

http://i.imgur.com/FrJg4Dd.png

Ocolus the savior has disproved the key prices, downvote

GUYS we need to raise key prices in order to accurately reflect the market! It's crucial!

Guys we need to cut copy the same joke (that wasn't funny the first time) to every key suggestion! Its crucial!!!

Keys are going up because greedy trader bastards are selling them for more and desperate players are buying the, if we don't stop at a price keys will not stop rising

I don't even care anymore. There's nothing we can do. At least the Bud prices went down. :D

(prepares for downvotes...)

Lots of solid proof throughout this suggestion. Buyer trades have been provided that show people buying at 4.55 and even up to 4.66, and buyer trades are as decisive as it gets. A few I grabbed myself, all too easy to find over a short period of time to be out of the ordinary.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9969389 - Buying 26 at 4.55 ref each at time of posting

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9990173 - Buying a couple keys at 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9990956 - Buying up to 20 at 4.66 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9992266 - Buying keys at 4.66. Unstated how many being bought, but up to 40 ref available in the trader's backpack.

Further, people have been providing their own trades throughout this suggestion, providing screenshots of exchanges of 4.55 and higher. It is undeniable that people are regularly BUYING at 4.55, some even at 4.66 already, and that's without even looking at seller trades.

The counterproof provided has failed to refute the 4.55 buyer trades and even acknowledges legitimacy of some seller trades under extremely stringent rules of what constitutes leitimate proof. Absolutely nothing has been provided throughout the suggestion indicating that 4.55 is a difficult price to sell, while a significant number of commenters suggest that it is extremely easy to get 4.55 from a key.

The other suggestion is for 4.33-4.66, but the 4.66 price point hasn't been as solidly demonstrated as 4.55 has been. More importantly, the vote is 45% here vs. 32% in the other. When weighted by rep, the vote is 52% here vs. 29% in the other.

Accepting.