Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.55–4.88 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

608 votes up

790 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed Sun, 14 Apr 13 22:46:03 +0000 by Puddilicious.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Sigh. This shouldn't be happening. Also on an off topic note, congrats to outpost for hitting 10 mil trades. Other off topic note, there should be more people like this fellow. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10057977

Now to the suggestion.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

4.69 Ref on Finance

http://scrap.tf/keys

Buying keys at 4.77 on scrap.tf, selling at 4.44

Failed buyers under 4.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9429746

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10012321

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10063382

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10012534

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9864521

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9471970

Failed buys at 4.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10032576

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9984001

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10020009

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10051743

Buys/Sales at 4.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9983730

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9841584

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9939717

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9471970

Buys/Sells at 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9861238

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9820264

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9984001

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10009554

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9447767

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9861238

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9429746

Buys/Sells at 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10022934

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9864521

Buys/Sells at 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9985498

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9862234

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10050184

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10002985

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10012169

loooooool!

It is inevitable that the price of keys will only continue to rise. When the opportunity to benefit oneself becomes present, most people will take this chance, while overlooking it's affects on others. It is unlikely the price of keys will drop, unless.... As the price of keys increases, it will eventually reach a maximum price in which the demand will eventually go down, yet the supply will increase. What will follow is the devaluation of keys, and the price will drop, until the demand for keys is willing to increase again. This is a cycle that will continue, I cannot say if we will ever see keys at 2.33-2.66 again, however.

If based on the exchange rate which is roughly $0.35/ref this maximum price of keys will sit somewhere between 6-7 ref (dependent on currency). Beyond this point its cheaper to buy keys through mann co / community market rather than trade for metal. However there are other contributing factors such as the individuals ability to add funds to steam wallet which will factor into a large part of the demographic; this may favor metal trading meaning prices could go a little beyond this.

Based on the TF2Finance 'key price' trend this maximum price should occur around about August 2013.

But ref's been dropping - as it continues to drop, this maximum price will get further and further away. It was $0.40 a few months ago.

You're right, well done -- I didn't factor that in. Although the $/ref drop is considerably slower than the key rise, in the very least once it reaches this point it should slow down.

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the price of keys is forcing ref down. Why would ref be going down? I know you can give me the usual, "because people have idling armies of 100-200 accounts", but really, the normal TF2 player waits for items to drop and then crafts with them. Maybe they can buy a key. Ref has been just as desirable for them as it always has.

don't try to reason with bitter nickle and diming traders man - they don't remember the excitement of crafting anymore because it doesn't have "profit" written on it.

You kidding me? I trade for profit, then spend a good amount of that profit crafting stuff. Shame I spend like 5 ref to craft a 2 ref sharp dresser :P

@There Craft hats for 2.66. 3/4 of the time I get something at or over 3 ref.

Metal is dropping BECAUSE of Keys. Highballer assholes started this thing, selling for 1 Scrap+ of the Current Price. So, as Keys stay the same price and you can get less keys with more metal, of course metal plummets.

There is a chance. I believe that 5 ref will be the limit. Even for the new player who doest know key prices this is ridiculously high. I have noticed on outpost that most people do not sell past 5 refined. This could be a sign of hope that people are coming to their senses.

Maybe.

That's what we thought about it hitting 4 ref

That's what we thought about when it hit 3 ref

That's what we thought when it hit 2 re... wait no

Hi, There here from the 2014! Just wanted to let you know: that's what we thought when it hit 20 refined!

Here in 2030 a key cost a bud (or a bud cost a key) :D

I have tried several times to offer a key for a team captain on the idea that they might think it will get that high but no takers.

Keys will eventually crash, trust me. Maybe not soon, but definately before they become the new buds. Buds are actually dropping because they are measured in Keys, and if that happens too much, the Unusual Market is going to crash as well. TF2 is going in a vicious cycle right now, I really hope we come to before that happens.

Here's the problem: keys are not going to crash. I don't see what would make them crash. The only thing that could happen is that valve could start selling them for $1.25 for a week. They'd probably drop to 2.55 or lower, but buds would be 50+ keys! More unusuals would be uncrated, the price of unusuals would go down. It would be crazy.

they will not crash. there may be a ceiling but i'm not even sure where that might be. i used to think 4 ref would make a good price that would be difficult to break through but key traders stopped selling it for 4 ref when it actually hit 4 ref bettering they could get more and as long as there are buyers willing to pay more the prices will continue to rise.

Trust me, here is my logic:

Current vicious cycle for a few months

Keys are 10 Refined (Lol)

No one Buys Keys with Metal anymore

Key Boycotting groups get more Demand

Smart people will decide "Hm, I can't sell for 10 Ref. Better Sell for 9.88"

Vicious cycle in reverse happens

Then how about bills, which are kind of common currency? They are not measured in keys?

Some say Bill's are gonna drop, and I admit they are harder to sell than ever

Bills are a currency, known to be equal to 8 Keys or 1/3 of a Bud. If Keys rise and rise, they will be 7 Keys and still 1/3 of a Bud. Understand?

Good proof, thank you for reporting the prices today.

Unlike the ungrateful people below me, you put a lot of effort into this,

and we all should appreciate it.

are you trying to be like me ?

yes, yes he is

he hasn't gotten trade banned yet so he's got a way to go

And I will personally dislike every single comment against your fantastic report

The more interesting part is the failed buys at 4.55.

I bet the failed buyers lists at the lower end of any range is only going to further increase, Sellers are hoarding, waiting for the keys to further go up.

Buys/Sells at 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10022934 - appears as if miniphee got 2 for 9 ref, herosouleater got 1 for 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9864521 - the one key posted in offer did sell but not to any add request, no evidence in pack of 34 keys sold. also unlikely that he was selling at 4.77 one week ago, also shows 4.66 on right side of offer leading me to think he changed his notes

Buys/Sells at 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9985498 - this seller bought 2 keys and shows no evidence of selling any, the adds have no keys from him

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9862234 - sold 1 key to the add E=MC but since that was 1 week ago it is unlikely it was 4.88, also it has few views for key offer that is one week old, the one above it is 3 days old with nine times the views

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10050184 - confirmed 2 keys for up to 10 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10002985 - hes offering 4.55 to buy??????

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10012169 - one key sold to doublekiwi for 7 ref?? may have been something else in trade, speaknoevil may hav gotten 2 so valid sale there

tf2 finance is within range at 4.64 but that shows that some sales would be above it

In the end five bad proofs and two acceptable proofs for range above current isn't enough. Downvote for me

Lets take a close look at the 4.88 offers:

Link 1:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10050184 - xco

This link has 2 offers. But none of the people that offered have enough money to buy a key or even have a key on their BP.

Offers:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/305037 - [NB]Hazmat entity A-379

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/299964 - jcopio

Link 2:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9985498 - herrabanani 0.22+ For

This guy only have 2 keys on his BP. The offers he received is from people with less money then him.

Offers:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/176728 - selling halloween spells

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/270654 - Rokis

This last guy have money and keys. But none of the keys he has come from the seller above

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/290870 - OrangePeanutt

Link 3:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9862234 - grace meow

This guy have 2 offers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/35300 - E=Mc³

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/258090 - rent-a-biscuit

It seems both bouth some keys from the seller for 4.88

Link 4:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10012169

This guy has 1 offer from people with no money

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/62835 - Hakuta

But it seems he was abble to sell keys for 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/323608 - Speak no evil

you should move your 4th link from 'Buys/Sells at 4.88' section to 'Successful at 4.55'

No point in voting anymore, it always gets accepted. Losing our points.

Knowing life (or admins), This will have like -250 and still be accepted.

Obviously, until people stop downvoting because "r u mad?!?! keys will become 10 ref!!!111 downvote"

From now on I would like to have every key suggester reference the forums as part of their proof. It may help.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/641-yet-another-key-price-topic-no-flame-wars-please-discussion-only/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/546-my-stance-on-reason-for-increase-in-key-prices/

Thank you.

*ahem* Sell to scrap.tf for 4.44 Buy from them for 4.77.

69th voter here <3

*question* why the previous suggestion about keys received so many negs, but still got accepted?

Because secretly this isn't democracy.

on most suggestions it will be based on democracy but when the people decide to be bias vote for their own profit the government have to step in and promote fair prices.

Long....

>You're on a Key Suggestion

You're thinking people will take your srs?

Acceptance of a suggestion hasn't been based solely on vote in awhile.

The truth has been spoken, but people don't want to believe it and they dislike. What a wonderful group we have here.

I didn't think there was secrecy to it. Suggestions are just that, with higher-rated suggestions being easier for admins to accept.

Super secret, what with the mods openly discussing it and all...

You'll probably get answers like "Corrupt Admins", "backpack.tf is rigged", "it's a conspiracy", "metal deflation key inflation"

But in all honesty, I have no idea.

because then people can make a billion alts and upvote.

It's because there's no actual rule that admins have to accept or deny suggestions based on points. It actually is entirely the assigned admin's judgment.

Like Who's Line is it Anyway, the points don't matter.

To give you an idea: There were multiple cases of scammers banned from Backpack.tf. They later came back as admins. Yes, that happened. Also, many of the admins are rich traders, so they could just as well be hoarding keys. Suddenly Backpack.tf is a hoarder's paradise.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Any proof that some of the admins/mods here are scammers?

I can only see an unproven and offensive post right now.

I don't have the proof, but I heard about it from many of my friends and fellow TF2'ers, + it was once announced on the front page that someone became a mod / admin, even though he had earlier been banned for scamming. (last part was not announced)

>Heard from a friend

>Rumors

wat

Votes doesn't determine whether it would pass or not. The mods would look over the proof and evidence to see if it's legit.

You know what's crazy? Your and Decapotato's comment say nearly the same thing in a different way, but yours was disliked and his was not.

Mods look at proof and negs, and because no one wants keys to go up, they get negs. Mods look at it and deem it legit, and poof, accepted. This is good in my opinion because it helps against price manipulation.

Because the suggestions that get approved have enough evidence to support the price change but most of the people that vote on key suggestions vote based on what they want to happen and not what is the actual market value.

>enough evidence

I never seen my trade used as proof and its open for almost 7 month, all i see is trade numbers starting with 94-99. Thats means mostly new trades (obvious resellers) counting as proof and all suggestion creator doing is looking for trades he need, ignoring others.

Even if admins checking evidence, im sure they not looking tf2op personally.

I'm sure they do with suggestions of great importance to most people.

Because the voters were wrong.

Just that simple.

>Disliking me because I'm right and they don't want to admit it.

I thought you knew that by now. People will upvote what they want to see and downvote what they don't want to see.

I do. I thought it was funny because it was illustrating my point

But wait...

If out votes dont REALLY count, doesnt that make us just as bad as Spreadshit? Because when you think about it, their prices are commonly based off a few admins decisions that an item should be worth "this" much based on his observation alone.

The only difference here is that there is a like or dislike button. In the end, the admin chooses.

I do not mean to stab you clever but if what you say is true, that most voters are wrong and its is no longer the "popular vote" (in some cases. Even i am against a crate 40 being a scrap...) and that the publics voices doest really matter anymore,

Then, To be honest, we are no better than spreadsheet.

See my below responses to qnqnx and Sir Chuckles

Ahh....i see.

Another question then: If we are going to be sounding like we have good control over our economy and no abuse of power, then tell me:

In a real economy, for example america, currency DOESNT CHANGE ITS VALUE. a one dollar in america will ALWAYS BE ONE DOLLAR.

Keys are considered currency. It strikes me so odd that while we believe this game is an "economy" the very basis of it is practically being ignored.

I do not think you are interpreting economics correctly there...

Yes, a US dollar is always going to be worth a US dollar by definition, but that doesn't mean it will always be worth the same compared to OTHER things.

Something that cost US$1.00 in 1950 would cost about US$8.78 today. Even though a dollar is a dollar, the value of the dollar as a unit does not stay consistent when you are comparing it to the value of other items or currencies.

Basic version; https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

that's fine but we need something to make change with for keys

BP is getting to be a small scale equivalent of King George III's rule, we should have a revolution

I agree with you.

Most voters have no idea what they are doing, and shouldn't be given the right to have their vote count.

It's up to the admin to decide what is best for the voter.

It's like you're intentionally trying to be more irritating than Long or something.

Communism, yay!

That's not communism, that's totalitarian government.

I can hardly remember the whole expansive types of government at 11pm. I was baking pie.

Don't you think it's time to change the way voting works? Of course directly letting voting determine if a price is accepted or would lead to mass price manipulation, but having an option to vote but also make it meaningless isn't right either.

Or at least don't call it voting, because right now it only exists to determine how good is someone at predicting if a suggestion pass or not. Wait,isn't that what it was actually made for since the start?

And please, saying that "the voters were wrong" is a total PR failure.

You want long version? Alright, I'll repeat the long version again;

Votes, proof, and mods are all part of a system of checks and balances. None of them have total control over the other, because that is how checks and balances are supposed to work.

On the vast majority of accepted suggestions the voters, proof, and mods all agree with each other, and it is those suggestions are easiest to accept and defend after the fact.

Saying "the voters were wrong" isn't a PR failure, it's a blunt truth; people don't vote rationally on key suggestions, and this is why we can't rely on that check when moderating key suggestions. This is one of several reasons why key suggestions take so much time to moderate; we don't have the voters to back up our decision, so there is more strain put on the other checks (mods and proof).

No one is perfect, but I think the current system works very well. If people could bring themselves to be objective when voting on currencies there wouldn't be any problem.

Yet also in the other price suggestions voting technically means nothing, it just never brought up. How does that check and balances the suggestions?

Part of the moderator guidelines is that if we are accepting/closing a sugestion against the votes, then we must provide a concrete reason for it

In cases where the suggestion is slightly inaccurate but still better than the old price, minor changes, or other borderline cases then the votes can and do decide whether it passes or not.

That seems more agreeable. But that it is still based on the whims of the moderators is still worrying.

Especially now that anyone voting down key price increase suggestion is scapegoated as a dumb poor F2P whose opinion should be disregarded, at least by some people.

As stated above, no one is perfect, least of all myself.

The community is a check in a more complex way than simply voting. They scrutinize all our actions, and if we make a big misstep I guarantee you we hear about it many times from many people.

If you see a mod make a troubling decision, we have guidelines here for bringing attention to it; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/75-guidelines-for-suggestion-question-threads/

@cleverpun

Noted, thanks for the clarification.

because the voters are wrong?

are you joking? if right and wrong was already decided, do you think we would have voting?

See my above response to qnqnx

I still believe that you should set a more concrete guideline for less caustic items.

Far too often I've seen "I've sold/bought at this price, it seems to be right." and then gets accepted despite evidence to the contrary and the overall voting being a low score.

I need to find it, but there was two suggested price changes on one item where a mod put his opinion in support of one change (claiming to have sold at the supported price), and happened to be assigned to both.

Despite the fact that the one that got reject had an overwhelming number of positive votes (If I remember, ~80%) an the one that got taken, and supported personally by the mod had about 50% positive.

It's happenings like this that cause concern. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but acting as judge, jury, and executioner with a facade of voting makes the whole thing look like one big fallacy.

Certainly some items, such as keys, require special attention, but without basic regulation you come into confrontational accusations like you see here.

People claiming they've bought/sold at a price are just unbacked opinions, and the mods rarely take them into consideration.

I intentionally avoid items I have a vested interest in most of the time, and other mods have a similar policy, but at some point you have to accept that some items are relevant to everyone and a mod has to make the call eventually.

If you see a specific instance where a mod might be abusing their power there are guidelines here; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/75-guidelines-for-suggestion-question-threads/

And FYI, mods used to be able to accept their own suggestions. I brought it up with brad and he disabled the option entirely. The idea that mods abuse their power assumes we have enough power to abuse, would gain something by abusing it, and are foolish enough to try, all of which are incredibly false assumptions.

That doesn't mean you should write off any suggestion of actual guidelines. It makes you sound like a very bad politician.

In addition, the example I gave first, "Far too often I've seen "I've sold/bought at this price, it seems to be right." and then gets accepted despite evidence to the contrary and the overall voting being a low score." was not made by someone and then accepted by the mod, but said by the mod himself and then accepted by the same mod.

It doesn't matter how many little side things you say you have, you need to SHOW that you have good guidelines, you need to prove it, not just say it.

At this rate, you're already losing credibility on the fringe, and slowly more and more people are viewing you as the "tf2 spreadsheet with more admins".

It doesn't matter what you have to say, it matters what you have to DO.

Good proof, but this hurts.

It really does.

Bought 2 today for 4.55 sorry down voted

4.55 is in the suggested range, downvoted your comment till logic appears

You can buy them for 4.22 ref, key prices are very sensitive. He still has good proof. Still, everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Opinions on backpack.tf

Hell no.

Haha, well it depends if your opinion is on proof or just a work of fiction. For example bob thinks salvaged crates should go up because they stopped dropping. Bob is an idiot. Jim thinks salvaged crates should go up because there is evidence that people are paying more. Jim is good. You can interpret evidence differently.

Can I just say that whenever there are stupid price suggestions? Please?

Low range is 4.55...

Welp. The economy should crash in a matter of a few weeks at this rate.

Going to?

It already has.

Hahaha,

the poor people economy will.

People with any sort of real money will thrive.

keys rising won't ruin the economy.

Not true on both accounts. The low/mid level traders are a major current and future component of the higher tier economy. Look at all the items that are getting price drops.

buds are dropping. items priced in buds go up. unusals,rares,vintages

keys go up. items that are priced in keys go down. hi tier stuff. low unusals,sfs

metal goes down. items priced in metal goes up. tods,surplus,keys

i wouldn't say that the economy is not callapsing

most items above 1 key are going down right now. the trading economy is mostly low/mid lvl traders by volume and they ultimately are the buyers for high tier items. if player/traders don't want to spend $$ at steam market or paypal than that will mean less transactions for high tier items. those traders will need to lower price or mot sell. :( <-- first use of emoticon in tf2, so happy with myself. keys r at the heart of the economy and that is all mid lvl

Keys are the main issue here. They may still seem very active in trading, but they were once way more demanded. Almost all organic buyers (unboxing + other non-resale stuff) are gone, and everyone just wants them for resale now. Eventually, even the non-organic traders will not be wanting to pay the price and keys plummet.

Also, because keys have been in this vicious cycle where their metal worth goes up, but $ not, people are thinking metal is dropping in value. It may be, but not this quick. Metal will probably also become more desired after the key crash for this reason.

Warned you, I'm banning you for a week.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Q8hAb230OE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUl9NPPMx8s

http://youtu.be/Kl8ryxVp6xY?t=12s

We've all got to make a concerted effort to stop this kind of thing...

I don't disapprove of the suggestion, but please. This is getting awkward.

People who do make efforts to stop this are just exploited by others. Example:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10057977

That's why I said that we -all- have to do something about it. Otherwise, we'll most likely be looking at something not unlike what happened to Bitcoins all of three days ago. :P

http://wiki.teamfortress.com/w/images/a/a4/Demoman_specialcompleted11.wav

I agree, we also need to get rid of the mentality that only Valve can fix this. The awful truth is that they won't; in fact, they'll even gain more profit by letting the trading market crash. Hell, I'd say they purposely added the Steam Community Market, craftable store bought hats, and the Premium Gifts after Halloween just to push our economy into this state of chaos.

At this point, we need to consider Valve a threat and a rival to our economy. That right. "OUR" economy. We started it and only we can fix it. But sadly, that's not possible because people simply don't care, don't know how to fix it, or aren't intelligent enough to understand the damage they're causing. Until we educate people to spend wisely and to wait patiently for better prices, we'll never fix it.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on that. It's a shame that players who are just now getting into the market don't know better. Now the majority of us who have keys are trying to time this sucker so we can get the "profitable" side of the economy before it drops.

I'm thinking it's a more drawn-out version of what happened to #40s..I could always be wrong, of course, but eventually, people will tire of the rising price of keys, and the majority of people in the economy simply won't have the metal to buy them. Those two things combined will likely reverse the direction of the market.

I guess we'll see, of course :P

Valve has always been a business first, that's nothing new.

It's a much greater issue than simply being uninformed; you're asking millions of players, many of which have conflicting interests, to overturn market forces via concentrated protest.

Unlike the real world, where a vocal minority can create change, the hatconomy is structured such that a vast majority of players would need to be involved in changing it. As a realist, I don't see that happening.

Which is why I said it's not possible. Perhaps I sentenced it wrong in my previous statement, but what I'm getting at is that there's only one way to fix this ourselves and sadly the chances of it working are slim to none. Still, doesn't hurt to try. Which is why I respect those "Save the Keys" groups that are around. Sure they might not be able to overturn the market, but at least they're following what they believe. Hell, I know some of those groups have people selling keys for 3 ref to their members who just want keys to open crates, though they're few and far between.

But yeah, I agree with what you're saying. At this point we can't fix it unless we have everyone on board, but it doesn't hurt to try.

I'm just glad that they cannot make a difference.

They, for the most part, have absolutely no idea what they are doing,

thus would ruin anything with their biased, ignorant (using it in the terms of not knowing, not an insult) votes.

That's a bit harsh. They're not ignorant, they just want their voices heard. Votes, in most cases, are made to have people's opinions heard. And everyone is biased, it's just some show it more than others. I'm biased against key prices just like the rest of them yet I don't complain about it. Hell, you're biased for the rise.

It's not bias if it's stating facts.

They're just frustrated that they're not able to effect the economy with opinions.

Last suggestion was accepted 4 hours ago. http://puu.sh/oJrw

4.69 is below the AVG price.

4.555 +0.155 = 4.71 & 4.888 - 0.155 = 4.73..so 4.72 mid range

It's not there yet!

Downvote!

Middle school mathematics won't save keys.

Remember when keys were 2.66? Heres Rule #1 for economics. Buy low, sell high.

Key prices:2.66

Selling at 2.77

Key prices rises to 2.77

Selling at 2.88

Repeat.

Though I gotta admit, the dude that's raising the prices has 0 zero keys. Gotta give him credit to have balls like that.

No-one saying he doesn't have alts.

Again, can you ******* stop with these BASELESS accusations???

I'm not accusing you of having alts, I'm just saying that you COULD have alts.

Oh wow. I didn't expect my trade to be up there.

Anyway, it's possible to bring keys down. But it's overall easier to let keys rise and have people realize that we should stop paying ridiculous prices.

And I only traded people I trusted and limited it to one key per person. Thus no one's reselling for higher because we all feel the same.

why does the price immediately raise less than a day after one was accepted?

This is going to fast, slow down or just stop voting the price up.

Additional, it should not be possible for a vote to get a score of -241 but still get accepted :/

It received so many negative votes because people didn't want to see keys going up, regardless of the proof presented that showed keys need to go up.

Like I said to cleverpun - people will upvote what they want to see and downvote what they don't want to see.

Because people are biased because they've whined and complained about the key prices, but have done of any substantiality.

Which is for the best, this is the best for the economy.

The Great Key Depression ;_;

Why the heck do keys have to keep going up! I wish it was like how it used to be at 2.33 - 2.55 in the good old days. Now stupid idlers are running it for allot of us!

>Good old days

>Things changing

>The economy

It's not like Backpack's credibility isn't shit by now,

can we just remove voting?

We can still report prices, but leave it all to admins.

suggestions like these get passed because of people voting. without looking at proof. its not corruption its people like you saying how bad this is and downvote because they want keys to be 2.66

Upvote.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9451429

Had no sellers for a day already.

Last suggestion was accepted 6 hours ago...what is wrong with this people???

bla bla reflect the market...bla bla tf2 finance...this is so ridiculous...

damn i not gonna buy a key worth 5 refine if that happens in a few weeks!. Not selling either! Just gonna wait and see what gonna happen in a few weeks.

Good Lord. I give up.

Enjoy the crash.

hehehe dude xdd

Seems like i should have my wallet prepared and buy some keys, cause metal price is just damn high... Ah, greedy people.

Damn, Stop raising the price of keys!!

Who cares right????

What we need to do is hold off on buying keys for a week or two..... We need several groups in the TF2 community to ask people not to buy Keys so that the demand isn't there and the price will have to drop...... How we do this I don't know but this is so stupid especially for people who are just starting out

I haven't bought a key for such a long time, and I never will until they are below 4 ref again, if that ever happens. It's just sad.

anyone who has over 10 keys in their inventory and simply plans on cashing them out when price is really high just makes me sick. it really is ruining the game

Exactly my point but I have our solution. Look me up and add me if you agree with me. I'm going to start a group and I will find a solution to these problems. I for one am not going to sit around and hope things get better or expect Valve to fix it. I am going to make a group dedicated simply to control prices that are out of control..... Lets be the solution people.

What you suggested is going to work a lot better than the poor sap who is selling at 2.33 just so people can make a profit on him.

Its just simple realization. this way we still get our needed outcome without needing to add more steps and we can keep the price suggestion. I just don't know what to name it yet....

let it be, keep raising the price until it crashes. If you don't think the price is fair then don't buy keys, simple as that.

It won't crash things will get worse. Other items will crash and when the rich who have just cashed in their keys start buy up those items their price will skyrocket and they'll be even more rich while those who made them rich sit around and watch their backpack dwindle away. It should be hard to justify increasing keys just because or F2P if A) F2P can't trade anyways until they actually buy something and B) Because no one has really looked into the effect F2P is actually having on the market in regards to scrap.

it's stupid to rise key price. i dont like to buy key for 10ref

I can't imagine that someday keys will cost more than the mann co store in trading. That would disastrous. It's impossible to stop the rate anymore since there will ALWAYS be desperate buyers out there buying those unreasonable priced keys. And the cycle is never going to end.

If said sellers were forbid from posting over a certain price, the madness would end.

You realise this will never happen, right?

I already promised myself never to buy keys for metal again :/

I don't even trade items which are valued in metal for items which are valued in keys.

Why don't we save time and rise they instantly to 10 ref?

Only 3 people can stop key prices from getting more out of hand.

Brad pitt: owner of backpack.tf,

Snezza: Owner of tf2oupost

Gouda?: Spreadsheet guy

If brad and gouda? refused to post prices above 5ref, the resellers would eventually move on. Sneeza controls tf2op where most people trade. If no trades could be posted indicated a price above 5ref for keys, the hording would stop.

Traders still could trade each other privately for whatever rate they wanted but this would stabilize the tf2 economy and ward off the price manipulators who have no interest in using keys.

Some might say oh its about reflecting the price not controlling it. To them I say: Stopping the greedy manipulators is more important to passively watching and aiding others in gaming the economic system.

If you're with me, you must make your voice heard to them. If its just 4 or 5 people, they won't even get a response. If you show up in mass, something may be done.

At the very least, only moderators or ideally Brad should suggest price changes to avoid any conflicts of interest and to avoid people suggesting almost literally every single day.

I mean where does it end? One day a key buys you an unusual or even 2? At the end the rich players will have all the actual value while poor players will have items no longer worth any real value. Though given that this isn't a real democracy (see last key vote passing despite minus votes) , you'll wish u picked up keys at 5ref.

"At the very least, only moderators or ideally Brad should suggest price changes to avoid any conflicts of interest and to avoid people suggesting almost literally every single day."

That would cause some serious issues with the public perception of backpack.tf.

Howso? They already accept votes that have minus points. They accept suggestions from people whose sole purpose is to get some sort of brownie points (i.e badges). Many of whom have serious conflicts of interest.

Personally, I blame them already for the inflation of keys. This never happened while spreadsheet was the goto site. The reason is that evidence was and still is gathered from sellers who's sole source of income is to overcharge keys by hording them.

Key prices have always varied by 1-2 scrap. The desperate and noobs buy for over the posted price. However, I have always been added when just offering the average price . Granted, it takes a lil longer but I've done it countless times. When bp.tf started taking those sellers prices as the standard price (due to ease of finding), bp.tf lost some of the credibility among many of us traders.

This problem goes away if the Big 3 decide to stop this madness. If the highballers can't overprice to the masses, things will stabilize. Make a 5 ref cap and no one loses their current value and eventually the highballers will move on to something else (probably 2012 festive stranges) But atleast that doesn't ruin the economy for all

If tf2op limits it to a 5 ref cap, no one would even use it anymore, as it will just be telling you what you can and can't sell for. People are free to charge whatever they want for their item. If Brad pitt sets a cap at 5 ref, even though there are obvious trades happening above that, it'll ruin the point of the site, and it would be price manipulation, no one would use backpack.tf after that. And who even uses spreadhseet anymore

Tf2op and backpack.tf is entrenched in how people do interactions on tf2. People aren't gonna abandon it to go to an inferior trading site. I've done alot of trading on tf2tp, bazaar, etc, but honestly the gui is inferior. People won't abandon tf2op or bp.tf.

Either way is price manipulation. Either we let the horders go unchecked and profit on all our backs or we put our foot down and say this is the price. As for the spreadsheet, I think a lot of non-native English speakers use it because its available in alot of languages/ domains.

I can't really see how this is price manipulation. No one is really "manipulating" the price.

You are proposing that the price of keys are manipulated. http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/546-my-stance-on-reason-for-increase-in-key-prices/

Base64 has some compelling arguments. Still people were idling and had alt accounts before the upgrade to premium. The ratio to quanity argument is flawed in that the canadian and us govt aren't interconnected, thus is isn't a 1:1 argument. In lamens terms, the amount of ref to the amount of keys hasn't changed significantly.

In terms of his backpack and outpost argument, sellers profit because they don't have to adhere to demand. If they buy at 2.77, resell at 2.88 then all keys become 2.88, well they don't just end up making 0 profit. They just move the price to 3. They don't lose profit. The market doesn't punish them due to the legitmacy of bp.tf When it was spreadsheet as the source of prices, if prices were 2.33 on the list and people sold for 2.66, the offical price wasn't moved. Thus, the highballers couldn't continue to ask for more and people thought of them as tryin to rip them off because the assumption was that the price of 2.33 was legit.

So profit was still had by the highballers but the key prices didn't move because everyone assumed the price was stable. If the price were again set at something stable, their would be no more movement. If Brad and co said the price was 5, the most keys would sell for would be 5.33. Guaranteed! I'd back that up with any of my unusuals. Have him try it for 2 months, lets see.

You mean like a dictatorship? I do NOT think so.

Than you choose corrupt sellers. The choices are between bad and worse. I think Brad is benevolent. :D

This my good sir is the epitome of price manipulation.

Then good sir, I'd rather have someone as reputable as brad doing it than a bunch of highballin, souless jerks. Face it, the manipulation is happening as we speak

No, No one can stop keys from rising, its the TF2conomy, and these are "Suggestions", Personally I disagree with about 75% Of prices here, and elsewhere.

It's sad.

If you disagree with he prices please help us make them more accurate by suggesting new prices.

I believe only Valve can do something to stop it. Metal is worthless. If it became tradeable on the steam market or given another use, it would rise again.

So what you are saying is..

Stop trading.

Manipulate the shit out of it.

BTW you forgot reddit, bazaar, trading post, and other sites

Bazaar follows whatever bp.tf does. I think I probably should've included the trading post as a number of trades occur there. As for the rest, I personally don't think their percentage of trades conducted there is a significant chunk. Forums are just to cumbersome, slow and not pleasant to do business at.

Tf2op and backpack.tf is where the masses go. Change them and the rest will go .

I wouldn't say stop trading. What I'm doing is changing most of my items to things that are valuated in keys. I didn't trust the community to respond to my lengthy comment when the price was suggested for 3ref, I don't expect them to now. I sold most of my ref then and sold off ALOT of my inventory. Almost done. I for one will not allow these manipulators to steal my bp value.

Give it a god damned break.

The previous key suggestion was accepted YESTERDAY.

CALM down with raising keys. It is crazy enough already.

i bought 3 less than 24h ago for 4,44....

I bought 5 yesterday for 4 ref each

Teach me master!

nothing to teach. random guy just pops on a trade server selling keys for 4 ref. He sold 12 keys. 2 bad I didnt had money enough to buy all the 12.

This is disgusting, Keys should not be this high, its an outrage!

Some people are using Backpack and outpost to speculate on keys price. There is nothing to do with the market. This is simple and pure speculation.

I know, makes me furious

yeah but this speculation on backpack.tf going to the world and going to trade business. So now noone want to sell keys less than 4,66 and soon less than 4,88

Its sick. That everyone just look on bp.tf and the trade is not improving because of this

Yes its true, people are selling at this price. But as many people have already said, they will always sell at a higher price. I've seen loads on the outpost selling at 5 ref, but this will only get higher if you up the price here. DOWNVOTE

will these EVER stop climbing in price?

No well maybe when the market crashes

As an economics student I just sigh and shake my head whenever I read these "when the market crashes" comments.

It can crash in a way.

4.55-4.66 -I think ( I no problem found yesterday bought at 4,55)

this^ sort of.

possible to buy with 4.55 ref, but goes fast as hell at 4.66

Just waiting for the economy to crash when keys hit

hmmm about lets say 10000 ref by the end of this year

By the current inflation rate they will hit 10 Ref in exactly 1 year.

Tell me when people are selling them for 2.66 refined again.

wow..I didn't think Keys were gonna reach 5 Ref..but looks like they are going to very soon..how on earth are there still so many people willing to pay that? I'm not even willing to pay 3 Ref.

I'll have to upvote, since this will get accepted *sigh*.

Soon it's officially 5 ref for one..

last acsept 13 hours ago ...

ok the price going up but not so fast ...

http://i.imgur.com/86rDLJh.png?3

There you are!Your fault!

i dont understand?

Don't you remember me?

oh were you on that server yesterday

and you stated that it was my fault because of key inflation?

right..

You admit it too!

you don't know what sarcasm is?

that's the whole point

and I, as a person

cannot cause key inflation

its to do with refined dollar value dropping due to idling and large supplies (basically unwanted)

keys have ALWAYS been in high demand, no doubting that

You think I'm serious?I'm just messing with you

bully

Who cares anymore?

my thoughts exactly

Upvote, I agree with this range.

If this passes, keys will officially have doubled in price in refined.

Will keys have doubled, or will refined have halved?

Yes.

How specific.

If keys doubled in value, then the value of refined relative to keys would be halved, so the answer to cleverpun's question is yes because both would be a true answer.

Because keys keep going up in metal price, but not in $, the keys going up is devaluating the metal, instead of the other way around.

Doublethink.

That depends on who's perspective you're looking at. In terms of actual dollar value, yes, key prices has been roughly the same, maybe a bit more. In term of metal value, no, it's doubled in price. You got to remember Clever, some people aren't in it for the money or even care about the dollar value of items. Some just like to gamble with crates to get themselves an unusual. (I fall into that category, and because of that, I must have wasted nearly 300 dollars in TF2. Good thing I got over my gambling addiction, or I would have gone broke eventually.)

That's a pretty severe generalization. If people "didn't care about the dollar value of items" I wouldn't have to put out three flame wars on every key suggestion.

I said some, not all. Again, some people don't care about the value of their items. I know some people with $200+ backpacks who don't care about the value of their items. They have those items, because they want those items. I fall into that category, I don't care about the value of my backpack.

Actually, no offense, but in a way, you're generalizing traders with that statement. Are you saying all traders care about their items' worth and are causing these flame wars in key suggestions? You said it yourself, people have different, and even conflicting, interests in the hatconomy, so it's safe to assume not everyone is going to care about the value of their backpack.

I am starting to become....worried, about the future of this economy and this site.

People are constantly suggesting new prices with no proof. Due to backpack.tf, the price of keys is STILL RISING. (AND BEFORE YOU START SAYING IT IS NOT OUR FAULT: Yes it is. stop running away from it. It is the truth. Although unintentional, it happened.)

On top of that, we recently found out, thanks to cleverpun, that we are no longer really in control here. That upvote downvote is now more a like/dislike button. In the end, the admin can overule all of it.

Things are starting to get out of control. If people continue to notice the trend, backpack.tf will start to become unreliable in some places, resulting in overall loss in confidence in this site's ability to promote certain prices.

It is coming very close. If this continues, This wont be a random post from a nobody. Its gonna be the beginning of the end of the tf2 economy.

Just see this http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9952329 , i really hope it works. and why they're accepting new keys prices !!! see all the votings , all in mines

It won't. Some dickhead will buy all the keys at 3 ref each and sell them for 5 ref each. Because, you know, people are assholes.

link 1 selling for 2.33 while he can, he'll end up broke soon but I say congrats to him for trying. Anyways, people still selling for below 4.88.

1 ref = $0.35 1 rec= $0.33

4 ref = $1.4 + .44 - .88 ref = $1.88- 2.28

It will not stop until it reaches 5.66 ref when it's near the stores price of 2.50

and so it will begin 5.66 + 1 scrap and continue ..

Possibly if people want to be even more greedy.

5.66 will be not the final price ... the ref price will go down and the key go up again .......................

No Keys in tf2shop.net http://tf2shop.net/

No Keys in scrap.tf

21 Keys in hexide shop - http://hexide.com/ - $1.47

=)!

No, let's let this get way out of hand. Let's just try, And when keys are 7 fucking ref each, and the greedy cancerous players that steal credit cards to buy keys and ruin this games so called economy, when they hold all of the keys and no one buys them. I can't wait to see them lose a lot of money that they thought they could pull over on other players. I can't wait to see this.

That's all.

key should me cheapher not too expensive

Any reason why someone should sell for lower when someone is paying for higher?

What people on this website need to realize that this isn't the actual price of keys being decided. This is showing what the current average price of these items are, and what they are being sold at. Many people don't realize this, and really need to.

Therefore, websites shouldn't be using this website to value the price of items, and rather use it to decide what they should sell at, which I guess what it is also doing.

It's not the price of keys which is going up, it's the average sellers price which is. Metal isn't going down either. If it was, then all hats and other items would be going up, but they're not.

first of all i love to read all the comments.

second of all i think all prices are in refined, earbuds are about 115 refined, however earbuds are priced on this website as keys.

keys becoming more valueable will make the earbuds devalue in keys the refined worth stays the same.

then again this is just my vision.

ps: grammar nazi's please better grammify this :P

angry just bought a whole lot of keys at 1.70 on sourceop.

I too sold a few keys at 1.70 but have not had too much luck. I sold about ten yesterday at 1.70. None since.

link http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/141106-Keys-at-1-7-each

KEYS SHOULD NOT GO UP ANYMORE END OF!

IKR.

REMEMBER DE GUD OL' TIME WHEN KEY WORTH 1 REF ?

IT SHOULD STILL BE

Key prices are so ridiculous now I just ignore. I know everyone who is in unusual trading ignores prices from here as they are way off most of the time so why not do the same for keys

PLEASE instead of blaming the site, help us understand what's actually going on!

Stopping the key suggestions or removing them or locking it at a fixed price IS PRICE MANIPULATION. If you want to understand what's actually happening or have an idea of why this might be happening, comment on the forums where we have around 4 good threads on why it's happening:

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/641-yet-another-key-price-topic-no-flame-wars-please-discussion-only/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/546-my-stance-on-reason-for-increase-in-key-prices/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/992-bud-crash-of-2013/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/983-sup-with-the-key-jump-in/

If you only cry about the problem and do nothing, then you are doing NOTHING to find a solution to the problem! Those people selling keys for 2.33-3 ref trying to bring the price down are doing nothing but losing. People will buy those and sell for more, so the price will NOT drop. "Yeah, but what if everyone starts paying 3 ref and nothing more" THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN. People would start buying ALL the ref for $0.35 each, sell 3 for a key (That's $1.05 for a key) AND SELL THE KEY FOR $1.40.

Yes, it's more complicated than you think it is.

That happen if people undervalue ref because "keys are rising".

Anyway, the volume of keys-refs were already incredible low in the past weeks. Looks like the low volume finally shows its results, the price reached that point when people not willing to pay these refined prices anymore. --> Demand getting lower for metal-key trades because people started to buy them for PP$ instead of metal. --> Demand getting higher for $ key trades --> Keys already goes above 1.50$ --> Bud getting cheaper in terms of keys, meanwhile it kept its $ price.

I'm sure, key prices will getting pretty interesting in weeks:

a) The key-ref price rising will be faster than ever.

b) Crash, not enough metal buyer --> price will drop

c) Both, a) and then b).

Oh and almost forgot.

Suggestors doesn't earn any profit from these suggestions, right?... Actually if someone own now 1000 key, than he will earn hundreds of $.

1) Rise bud to 28 keys, then sell all of your buds for keys

2) Rise key prices in refined until people not willing to pay those prices anymore, so they will buy them for USD instead of metals

--> higher demand, the $ price will rise (It is already rising, and already reached that point!)

And the most important: DO NOT SELL YOUR KEYS! (for metal)

3) Key USD prices rising from 1.3$ to 1.5$-1.6$ that means if you have 1000 keys, then 1000*0.2$ (200$), or 1000*0.3$(300$), and probably keys will be even higher in USD. So if you own 1000 keys, and it reach for e.g. 1.7$ each, then you will earn 400$ (1000*0.4$).

"I'm sure, key prices will getting pretty interesting in weeks."

Key prices in $$ just started to rise. Some say it's because Valve's hitting the carders hard.

You're comments on key suggestions are greatly appreciated, I've never seen you in the forums. You should try joining in on the key topics.

I created only one thread in the forum:

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/448-bptf-base-currency-change-suggestion-to-key-bud-prices-key-suggestions/

(Just realized Brad answered :O)

About the carders, well I didn't really read anything about that since now. :O That could be a/the reason aswell for the rise in USD, depends how many keys/sellers getting affected.

Downvote, im not so sure why people are wanting keys to go up sky high. think about the future most stuff are value by keys.

If we want keys to drop then everybody (every single last person) must buy/offer to buy super low. Or just buy more keys from the Mann Co. store lol

great logic

mann co store? why does that matter?

You bring more keys into the game, if an item becomes more common it will devaluate, of course this isn't as good as an idea due to the circumstances.

Why would people buy from the Mann Co. store, if they know that they can buy them cheaper on the community market?

Because people will increase the prices so it is more affordable to buy keys from the store.

No this is an outrage!

People sell keys for 4.55 - 4.88. if you do not buy at this price, sellers will drop prices to get rid of keys. Therefore dropping the price in general.

I still think it's ridicilous people use tf2finance as proof. On every single accepted suggestion, the tf2finance "proof" is in the first few lines.

Still it is clearly stated on the site that it is beta and not every trade ever is counted. For example you need to have earbuds to make it track your trades. Sounds safe? No, sorry.

Also, doesn't it seem fishy that with every new suggestion, the tf2finance price was in the middle of the range but now, on the last accepted, it was on the top (0.54 to the top 0.55). That means about 99% of the trades were on 4.55 or higher and now, on this suggestion it went over the top. Sounds strange? Yeah especially since it just now dropped from 4.69 stated to 4.67.

Scrap.tf is not proof because they need to make profit to keep up with inflation.

Myself, I've stopped selling keys for now, and I haven't bought one for metal since a year ago.

>Opinions, this is opinions and thoughts, which doesn't always seem too appreciated.<

Who would like to buy a key for 5 refined and unbox a hat worth 1.33? Or a strange sorth 0.33? Or a strange part worth nothing?

You say metal has lost value? Maybe, but I think keys have lost their respect, their initial purpose.

Things like this make me want to do good things. http://screencap.net/f/52994089.png

http://screencap.net/f/dc664e57.png

http://screencap.net/f/51b45aad.png

the price dont stop ç.ç

Well i know we can't do this on our own, but what if keys were able to be crafted for 3 ref? then they would simply be the next tier up from ref and the price would be set. Yeah probably would never happen, but i do believe this is one of the few ways this issue could be solved.

valve would never implement that. 3 ref, the result of what you can get from a week or 2 of idling, for $2.49? nope.

it was just a thought, but yeah they would lose money for sure

yup. which is why they won't put it in.

How exactly do you get 3 ref from 2 weeks of idling on a single account? 10 weps a week if you're lucky enough to not get multiple crates, which translates to 5 scrap for a week and 1.11 ref for 2 weeks. Keys are northwards of 4 ref now. You either assume that we're all metal farmers or your math is off.

Ever heard of sandboxie?

Yes, the program used to run multiple hl2.exe or steam at the same time on the same computer. You're evading the point. You assume that I think that idling is technically difficult. It's not. I'm saying that your point assumes that we all have multiple premium accounts.

I don't see how you can't get a couple keys from trading. Either you're a crap trader or you can't use outpost.

Look at my bp. I think I know how to trade. I'm saying that your comments are unrealistic and borderline condescending for the people who don't play trade fortress 2. Most of use aren't idlers and 3 ref would take more than 2 weeks for non-hardcore traders to accumulate.

Obviously if you're on this site, you should be a decent trader.

Hate to use this meme, but...

THE PRICE SUGGESTIONS OF KEYS

ON BACKPACK.TF

ARE TOO DAMN HIGH

save the freacking keys

instead of posting a new key price every day, wait a week or so and bump it a ref. This way traders have an actual chance to trade and not continually changing their price!

It's pretty good... part of the problem is that not many people sell under 5, when you make a reasonable sell price you get spammed with trade

UPVOTE

This is how the key market works.

1) OP trader sees that keys have the potential to rise

2) They set a higher price

3) Idiots buy it

4) People realize that keys are going to get higher and higher

5) People ask for more metal

6) Retards buy because they think keys will keep rising

7) Rinse, repeat.

Does it really matter?

i've been trading for 2 years now, when i started keys were around 2 ref, and 2.33 ref sellers were highballers.....But the changing key price has still yet to affect me in anyway shape or form....So whats the big deal?

P.s. This isn't really an isolated thing....most people aren't actually affected by increasing key prices.

This is how the market works:

1) Valve adds steam market, making keys worth a lot and ref worth less.

2) Valve adds Premium gift, more ref comes to the market because of new players and more idle accounts, making ref worth less.

3) Ref goes down, keys stay the same.

4) Valve hits the carders hard, making cheap keys harder to get, making keys apparently go up (This JUST happened recently and it's just an assumption)

I'm beyond even caring at this point.

One thing interests me though: when will the bubble burst?

As you may or may not know, bitcoins recently plummeted, after a period of hyperinflation. When will the same happen to keys? When will people finally decide that enough is enough, and stop wanting to buy keys for more and more?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/savethetf2keys/discussions/0/828935672956314003/

And people call ME a manipulator.

upvoting. whatever. if you guys want to cripple trading be my guest

This key inflation has already crippled trading by bifurcating the TF2 market into a metal/low end items section and a key/high end items sections. I decided to stop buying keys with metal months ago and many others have made similar decisions. The increased price of keys is strangled any movement between these two sections. There is no single "TF2 economy" anymore.

Thanks for ruining the game for everyone so you can make a cent per key.. really worth it mate.. nice one... I keep downvoting these and I have 38 keys. I don't care if my backpack rises by 38 cent everytime you pass this. But these admins and key hoarders do.

The admins actually care about good proof and logical reasoning.

Even I think that it is too early for a new increase which is that high.

Edit: He earns nothing by reporting a price on a virtuel item on this website.

1) That's not true and this website is becoming worse than spreadsheet for prices because of it.

2) Well that's fantastic to hear but it makes no difference as this will still be passed, as the others have, despite having 70+, even 200+ downvotes.

3) This account doesn't, but his potential alt-accounts, friend's accounts etc do.

1. Look at the comment which Michael Puddington posted on my suggestion before he accepted it.

2. This won't pass, god dammit. This is being said on every single Keysuggestion, and most are closed. About those downvotes: As I said, the mods care about proof, not about the biased downvotes of people who are mad about keyprices.

3. He earns nothing. Really, it's nothing. Only because a price rises here it doesn't mean that he can earn more. It's the market which is causing the inflation. Of course backpack.tf has something to do with it, but it isn't that much to control and manipulate it.

Btw. Just to let you know: Keys inflated by 65% in a half year. This is an increase of 130% every year. The price of Keys will be about 10.66 Ref in one year (4.66 x 2.30)

please no, no more

This site documents the market. Fair enough for me.

The site admins now are accepting the prices, not the community more.

The prices on this site have always been accepted by the moderators...if everything was accepted based on votes, then people would get their friends to upvote their suggestions. If the person had an unusual that was worth quite a bit they might go as far as to make upvoting bots that would automatically upvote everything giving it a positive score to be accepted even if it is not accurate.

lol call 1,000,00 friends to downvote? that's funny mate, Obama need to make a suggestion then

Why would you need that many friends? The most votes a suggestion had was below 2000 and most suggestions only get between 100-400 votes depending on how long they're up. Also unusual tend to get less votes in general since it is such a specialized market for the item. In order to get the majority you'd only need to have ~50-200 people upvote or downvote which can easily supported by a friends list. Anyways what's more of an issue is a bot. I'd show you the suggestion on the Vintage Lugermorph, but it seems manually removed it. Someone managed to hack backpack.tf and use Sneeza's account to suggest that Vintage Lugermorph's be like 5 buds. He managed to hack somehow in order to get the votes up to over 1000 in under 30 minutes. Ended with over 1000 positive score yet was not accepted.

-200, -300 is a lot, since people really talk with 30 friends at max in the friendlist, the rest are traders.

ps. unless you have time to make 300 alt acc like these guys making keys suggestions, then i will be sad for you

People have no incentive to make alts and/or manipulate with their friends since it is the moderators who accept the price, but if we change it so that votes are the sole reason for a suggestion to pass, then you'll see people try to do it because when people (in general) are given the chance to cheat then some will try.

"If a thing is worth having, it's worth cheating for."

- W.C. Fields http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/W._C._Fields

Of course the admins care about votes.

But not if more than the half is biased on the personal preference of the voter.

Like Mopey said, people like what they want to see and dislike what they don't want to see.

What do you actually think about my suggestion? For what reasons was it accepted?

Hmm... anybody remember the good ol' stable 2.66 price ?

I only remember people on Outpost who were out of stock at 2.66 Ref every time I checked.

To be honest it should

go back to 4 ref

Bitch please it should go back to 2.66.

I like 2.66 more than 2.33 but that would be fine too.

There are 3 key suggestions open right now, least you could do is wait until those suggestions were done .-.

Why is there 3 key suggestions at once?

To get you confused.