Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.66–5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10348636 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10367053 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10366854 20 @4 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10365810 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10350128 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10350102 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10348191 4.66

now time for some from long218:

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)

and these are from 2-4 days ago when I was on the hunt for keys

and don't forget

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324985 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324688 10 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322798 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322198 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322266 4.66

...and some more from another user:

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8087505 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10205171 4.88

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198044400039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386668 4.77 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10396504 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395774 6 keys 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395184 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394085 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10393697 4.77

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198011302297 selling 2 for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375490 selling for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10224409 bought one for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10332320 sold for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10283418 bought one for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607 bought a ton for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10149331 last week, bought 5 4.66 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375742 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10374931 (4.22)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10372955 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10371991 (4.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369389 (4)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9538806 bought 31 at 4.66 ref, maybe I'm gullible or not lol

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382850 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10022934 4.88

I.... what? I linked to the suggestion that was closed. Why does it matter if I own keys? I don't sell them for refined anyway.

My bad, I thought you were trying to raise keys without any proof until you added it.

Buyers who bought keys under current price:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10278598 bought 4 keys in last 3 days for 4 ref each.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9182116 bought a key in last 2 days for 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10365160 as soon as he posted, bought one for 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10283418 bought 1 for 4.66 22 hours ago

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10254370 according to him, bought 6. also offer of 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10388801 30 min ago, sold for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10388447 41 min ago, sold 3 for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10387900 1 hour ago, sold 5 for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10387683 1 hour ago, sold for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10387341 1 hour ago, 8 keys for 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386487 1 hour ago, 8 keys for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386092 2 hours ago, 1 key for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375490 selling for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10224409 bought one for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10332320 sold for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10283418 bought one for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607 bought a ton for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10149331 last week, bought 5 4.66 each

May I buy your keys for 4.88? I really need a key, and you can just buy another for 4.33.

We have a greedy trader here!

How is he greedy, if the keys go too high the economy will fuck itself in the ass and die

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400907

proof that i am not greedy.

I agree! Keys are in an OUTRAGEOUS price! Why higher the price randomly when there's no point to it? We might as well lower the price before the prices get out of hand. Even 3 refined each key almost seemed the end of the world for me. Now keys are almost TWICE the price as they were barely 4 months ago!

lol

The price just changed an hour ago, stop suggesting.

Argument for raising keys, why doesn't it apply to lowering?

Everyone knows that only increasing a price is manipulation.

Not exactly true. Say you suggest at 5 ref, dump 100 keys and then resuggest at 4.66 ref to buy up 100 keys. That would still be attempted price manipulation.

But, your point is still right. He's obviously not doing this.

It's only manipulation because the admins are only listening to the proof for higher keys, when there is much more valid proof for lowering the price. Basically, the admins are idiots.

I hate this site. It's ruined trading with it's false prices.

At least it's better than spreadshit @ traderempire. In fact, the only thing I disagree with as far as backpack.tf is that they actually display a price for keys.

Their prices for Unusuals are terrible as well.

Ours isn't that much better, but there's a hell of a lot of unusuals. Not much we can really do.

Dr. Ocsid.....SHOW those proofs then. But do tell me this. If i can sell 10 keys almost instantly at 5 Ref, then why should the price be any lower? hmmm?

@Mosh, I'm sorry backpack.tf has made it harder to shark. Also, the majority of unusual prices are correct. And if they are soooooo wrong, ever think to SUGGEST a price rather than bitching about it?

some admins are bad

for example one vote got 68% positive and the admin closed it down.

Open a suggestion lowering keys with no proof you'll probably still get aheap of upvotes, because everyone is biased.

you'll be lying to yourself if you say everyone is always 100% honest

You can write this on reddit dude, shout out the admins in bp.tf are corrupt :)

Was that sarcasm?

yes :S

Please remove the second to last link from chiggas evidence, the guy is selling for 5 ref, not 4. (look in the comments). Also, 6ung is on there many, many times. Please remove duplacate proof.

Why did Price go up? Since Bp.tf Start Taking " Profit Trades " As "PROOF"

Uh if that's the price that everyone is selling for and it's easy to get then it makes sense to raise the price. The motive behind the trade is irrelevant.

when people started buying the keys

Sorry to be a pain, but could you please remove my trade from the list (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10350128), it was intended as a quicksell for only one key, not to try to lower the price. Also, I'm kinda getting sick of having ~10 people add me per day because of a closed trade.

Upvoted. good job.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10436468 - 4.33

thats after waiting for 1 minute. going to sleep, or Id wait longer and look for more trades

Yes! Finally, someone who gets it! CoRSP, I owe you my backpack for saving keys.

(I actually own 0)

were's the proof

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517b0d9a4bd7b86d5900000d

Are you high

YOU ARE BLIND! You can see the wall of proofs above you.

Go home HUGSY, you are drunk.

yeah...my proof...but yeah i mean seriously wtf. how the fuck did that range get accepted? 4.66 was still very possible. i also posted a ton of proof for 4.77

The fact that the suggestion raising the price got accepted which had a score of -142 when the suggestion to lower the range had a score of 554 gives me the feeling the voting section is completely useless

exactly. even like 2 mods agreed with me

Probably because most (nearly all) the ones selling for 4.66 were near insta sell, and to mods that's "quick selling"

omfg. DOESNT MATTER HOW FAST THEY ARE SOLD, ONLY HOW MANY ARE SOLD

Man, you are thick.

dude, you keep posting key suggestions like you want the economy to die. i had like 80 trades of counterproof and ur suggestion still got accepted.wtf. does it feel good to realize that the shitty economy is your fault?

who doesn't want the economy to collapse?

everyone except you, hatch, naknak, and lithium (who for some reason wants keys to go up and has like 4) and 2 mods

DON'T FORGET ME!!!

Who are the two mods you pointing to? :D

They are being sold. It doesn't matter how fucking fast they are being sold, it shows people are still willing to sell for that price. If anyone is thick here, it's you.

I can sell 100 keys for a scrap instantly. Since I'm willing to sell, should the price be a scrap?

No, because you are one person. But if enough people are willing to sell for one scrap then sure

So if someone makes enough alts, he/she can reduce keys to a scrap.

Oh my god Ezeon you're an idiot. I remember when you came to my trade and literally said downvoted about 7 times. Every time someone said, "meh, I'm going to remain neutral," you copied and pasted the same crap and said downvoted. It was a bad suggestion, but don't even say downvoted: just do it.

And to that comment: Yes. I suppose so. But that means that someone with enough keys is willing to sell them for that price. So then the value of keys would theoretically be one scrap. Of course, this would take a ridiculous amount of keys, as they would all be bought instantly and then sold for massive profit.

But yes. If they sell enough keys for 1 scrap, and you always have the option to buy one key for one scrap, then keys will be one scrap.

holy fucking god. do people sell for a scrap? no. do enough people sell for 4.66/4.77? yes

I can sell for a scrap right now, if you want me to.

Agreed. Stop with the hypothetical bullshit. It doesn't prove anything.

Hypothetically, if it did prove something, you would have to have thousands o keys everyday to stabilize the economy, which wouldn't be possible. You would bring them down, but not to 1 scrap

sure ill buy it. add me.

no he can't, because that would only be a guy and his alt doing the trades, no one else. and who the hell has that kind of time?

was about to do the same thing once I asked the other chigga. up vote from me

your link 1 sold both for 4.77 each, can you please provide more proof of the 4.66 side?

are you literally going to every suggestion and wanting more proof of the low end, even though there is plenty of it? You just did that on two of my unusual suggestions, and now here, even though at least 50% of the trades are 4.66

just because i went to a few of yours? and fair enough

lol sorry, just not in a good mood as a couple people just added me to try to troll me

lol it's ok

I always sell for 4.66 cause the difference between that and .88 is to0 inconvenient and most people won't buy for 5 ref.

I like how you're buying keys for 4.77 ( http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10317299 ) why suggest 4,66 - 5 then?

Oh I don't know, maybe because it's within the given range?

some of this is repeat some not

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8087505 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10205171 4.88

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198044400039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386668 4.77 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10396504 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395774 6 keys 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395184 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394085 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10393697 4.77

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198011302297 selling 2 for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375490 selling for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10224409 bought one for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10332320 sold for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10283418 bought one for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607 bought a ton for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10149331 last week, bought 5 4.66 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375742 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10374931 (4.22)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10372955 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10371991 (4.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369389 (4)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9538806 bought 31 at 4.66 ref, maybe I'm gullible or not lol

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382850 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10022934 4.88

Edit i got rid of most of the repeat

*facepalm. Hatch just because yours was accepted doesnt mean we dont have valid proof. bptf trades close when another of the same item is accepted, stop trying to manipulate that into getting support.

Getting support? I don't even have a key suggestion open right now. As far as I'm concerned, this suggestion is free rep.

does anyone acutally care about points you get on a website that probably wont matter in 2 years?

News Team, you know that it is unwise to feed the troll under the bridge. Let Hatch revel in his insignificant victory that in five year's time will absolutely have no bearing and no meaning to what happens in the rest of the world, and let him believe his opinions actually mean something.

The real miracle is how i'm able to get internet connection under my bridge.

I kinda gotta side with hatch on this one. Maybe this counter proof is accurate now, but by the time this passes, it'll be 4.88-5. And then it'll be suggested back up. FREE REP

But 4.88 shouldn't have passed, as said multiple times by mods

We do not predict the market, we reflect it currently

and looking at the proof it IS CURRENTLY POSSIBLE to buy at 4.66

congrats m8, u gonna win virtual rep, years later you can say to your children " years ago i had lot of stars and badges in one website" or maybe you can put the "virtual rep" in your curriculum to get one job ^^

i dont have anything more to say.. "beep" beep free rep..

A suggestion with hundreds of pieces of proof is free rep? What kind of an asshat are you?

Look at him and laugh!

I'm talking to hatch.

Yes, laugh!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcinzmfZeCc&list=UL

im quite sure hes talking about u, unless im mistaken. Look at where his comment bar is positioned

I'm talking to hatch.

thats what i meant, hatch

Weren't you warned to stop provoking others? Yeah, you should stop that.

Who, me? I never was.

I was responding to Hatch.

ew go away

Don't turn into Long please :|

And we have ourselves a new version of Long :D

I so would like this to happen but in reality those days are long long gone. I was able to sell keys yesterday for 5.33 within 25 minutes of posting. I had to remove my trade, there were so many buyers.

1. Proof?

2. Look at the dates, there all VERY recent

See below for proof:

Selling for 5 ref Outpost Link: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10342824

Selling for 5.33 ref Outpost Link: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10378363

Trade Pictures; Sold for 5.33 ref : http://i.imgur.com/YllbB22.png , http://i.imgur.com/1kimJGR.png

No backpack space else would have sold more :(.

And most of the 4.66 trades you posted usually are troll trades, once you add them all you get is an ignore. Please ask some of them to put pictures of trades, just like I did.

Do you see ref in their bp, and keys in the person they sold it to in these trades? Also, look at the history of the keys. And you only posted your trades.

Oh and the so many 'buyers', they are within the suggested range.

u have no metal, and no actual proof of sales. and the 4.66 sales arent troll trades, you have no proof of them not adding pictures, thats a load of bs

Mate you can whine all you like but the sour reality is its over. Keys wont go back. You can farm all the rep you need but you will soon see an admin closing this trade.

This is one of the few key suggestions I actually can support. There is tons of proof that it goes for under the current range which really shouldn't be ignored. I've never believed the admins on here to be incompetent, and I know keys are a touchy subject, but really. With the amount of good proofs he provided...4.66 needs to be in the range.

I was like wtf when I saw the 4.88 - 5 suggestion passed. the old suggestion was much in favor of the voters, like +500.

4.66 is still possible for sure, and for sure 4.77 is still possible.

made a new one

I don't think keys should be going down. I mean, buds went down 5-6 keys in less than 30 days.

Only people that have invested alot of money into keys would be sad if they went down. Most others, would either not care or be happy.

that has nothing to do with it

Wow great proof.

I'd like to see this being closed with many upvotes

Probably will happen, open a trade with no proof lowering keys and you'll get massive upvotes lol

And yet this suggestion has more proof than most of the ones that are making keys higher.

Hmmm if you took a look at the proof nearly all the trades were instantly sold, so it's considered quick selling?

You can say yes, 4.66 is possible but seeing how they were instantly bought they were obviously going to be resold at market price?

Why does that mean that they are going to be resold? It's not like the only thing you can do with keys is resell them. Plenty of people are asking for keys for higher-tier items because of the bud issues, so what's not to say that they buy 60 keys for an unusual? Assume makes an ass out of u and me. And on another note, what gives anyone the right to hold one trade in a higher status over another just because it takes longer to sell? I can see 4 ref or something like that being considered quick-selling, but seriously? Is it such a terrible thing that keys just might be getting sold for something under 5 ref? I think not. 4.66 is not unrealistic, and the fact that they insta-sell doesn't mean jack because anyone would buy what they want for the lowest cost. That is how buying things works. Why do you think Wal-Mart was such a success? Sorry, getting off topic. Maniacal rant over.

Well i honestly dont think keys should be that high and i reckon it should have stayed 4.66 flat (nice number doesnt seem too high compared to 5 refs) But it's hard to deny that 4.66 sells really really fast.

Higher status over another trade is warrented as if a price is too low, everyone jumps on it to buy to make a profit. eg. open a read saying a hat is 1 scrap and you'll have everyone adding you to buy it, doesnt make it the correct price. However if you have a trade opened at the correct market price it will take a little longer to sell. Making 1 scrap a "quick sale".

Yes, 4.66 is possible...but also quite hard as you have alot of people trying to buy that "low costing key". I literally had around 8 people adding me to buy my key and my trade had been open for no longer than 1 min.

You say Insta sale doesnt mean jack shit, because people want it for the lowest cost, it's a bit different given the amount of people that jump on your trade is over 10+ in a few mins. It shows how nearly all trades around 4.66 are quickly snagged up leaving behind the higher priced ones (you have alot of competition to get that key for 4.66) making it somewhat unrealistic to say that 4.66 is the market price.

as i have said multiple times, doesnt matter if they are taken quickly. matters that enough people are WILLING to trade it for 4.66 and enough ARE SOLD

yet buying higher is not considered quick buying, love logic right?

So I can buy higher (for "proof") but anyone selling lower is "quick selling?"

Please open up a trade selling keys for 4.66 refs on outpost and see how many adds you get in 2 mins :)

I believe you shall get your answer there

The quickbuy price is 5.22+, well outside of this range.

Make an ad buying at 5.11, count adds in 2 minutes.

Make an ad selling at 4.77, count adds in 2 minutes.

See the difference?

lol

sales from 4 days ago @4.77 is not proof

so many people are buying for 5 ref-

http://www.tf2outpost.com/search/103132201

BUYING:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10435261 - 5(first trade)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10316491 - 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10435755 5.05

1st page^

then the trolls buying keys for 3.88 and getting laughed at

Apparently people who haven't already upvoted can't upvote it's gonna be interesting

on what the Mods do.

I buy for 5 ref and I get very few sellers because everyone wants 5.11-5.33. I get 1 seller every 2-3 days at 5 ref, much less 4.66 :(

I just started buying at 5.11. See if anyone would sell me. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10330949

Why are you buying them at a high price? You can easily buy them for lower pricing.

Also, I blocked you. I block all key resellers.

No you can't easily get them for less....i've only bought 2 keys in the last 2 days at 5 Ref......

Firstly, I don't even get them at a lower price so that's why im buying for 5.11, I would be more than glad if you would sell me for lower, then I will buy at lower until you have no stock.

Secondly, I don't resell.

you could look at the proof, its extremely recent

I'll happily buy all 146 of your keys for 4.66 Ref, add me.

330 ref

this guy is serious.

Someone seems to have forgotten i have alts :P

I like it you've decided to change to the good side :)

I sure if the key suggestion was accurate Long would support it, but the last accepted was pure BullSh*t

Too bad I don't sell them for refined metal and only cash.

Of course.

Doubly too bad that you're forming key-ref suggestions in spite of that.

You have no market knowledge, just the same recycled garbage "proof" from 5 suggestions ago (some of those trades are 3 days old now!).

tf2finance with thousands of data points is being "manipulated" but your dogpile of 80 trades is clearly an unbiased representation of the market (<-- sarcasm).

Here's an idea: put up 9 keys for sale at 5 ref. Measure how long this takes.

Restock all 9 at 4.88-. Measure how long this takes.

If your suggestion isn't complete crap, the buy should take less time than the sell, or about the same time.

Since your suggestion is complete crap, the buy will actually take about 100 times longer than the sell (hours vs minutes).

ERMEHGERD 3 DAYS. most are witing the last day, please stop posting random lies

If your suggestion isn't complete crap, the buy should take less time than the sell, or about the same time.

its not complete crap. there are literally over 50 links of proof

50 out of how many total trades in those 3-4 days? 5000? 10000? And you're claiming it's somehow representative of anything. You cherry picked 1% of all closed trades.

I'm suggesting you find out for real just how much BS this is by trying it in the market for real. Like I do. You'll even get a free ref for your trouble!

So what you're saying is that in order to post a valid key suggestion, you need thousands of links? Well, I'd like to see that happen, because as far as I know, nobody has EVER posted anything over a couple hundred. So if you want to go make an "accurate" suggestion with the required amount of proof, go do it and take your shitty opinion with you.

Anyone who referred to tf2finance has thousands of data points.

Or, you can link to open trades (buy trades to show low end, sell trades to show high end). There are a lot fewer open trades than closed, it's easier to have a representative sample and easier for others to verify.

Cherrypicking 80 closed trades out of 10000 means nothing.

It's too bad for people like naknak that there is a policy against feeding the troll living under the bridge.

Perversely, your content-free posts, like this one, are actually better than the ones where you try to construct an argument.

I would, but I don't sell keys to smart asses.

Always with an excuse NOT to sell at the lower end. Why? O because you know you can easily get more than the upper end. So lets all stop the bitching.

There's also the fact that I don't have any keys. Can't sell something I don't have.

http://www.tf2wh.com/items.php?search=key

Why rise the god tham prices, TfWh Is pricing keys at 4.38(Which is equal to 4.44)

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

The keys rose like hell because of the Price whores that only want keys to rise. If we don't drop the price soon the market is going to Crash

Whys the market going to crash?

Do tell...

Why is*

The market is going to crash because the keys will be so gad tham high everything will drop,Including buds to 5-7 keys, everyone will have everything and it is not going to be fun anymore, people will not play tf2 and tf2 will be a huge mess

Not a single valid point....

Keys will not rise indefinitely, at some point they will level off. The larger traders (the ones that run the market, the ones that actually keep the market alive) couldn't care less what key prices are. And Keys going up in ref in no way leads to everyone owning everything.

Yeah i know, but i seems to be happening now, and there are some people that are like that, but there are those who are Price whores(People that want to raise the price so they can increase the value of their backpack)

Except it ultimately doesn't increase their backpacks. And anyone who has enough keys that it would make a difference generally don't resell keys for Refined, they resell them for buds.

People kept bitching about Long, and how he was only raising key prices to benefit himself, but in actuality it only hurt him since he bought keys with in-game items (aka Ref) and sold them for cash. So raising the Ref price of keys only hurts the larger traders.

what makes no sense about the whole spiel about people having to many mid tier hats which is why keys are going up is based on one major problem. Stranges and hats have gone down, and those are tied to ref mostly. the more valuuble items(unusuals) are tied to keys. ergo it makes no sense for keys to rise as the only thing you can get that is worth more than a key from a crate unless its salvaged is an unusual, and no one buys unusuals in refined

Well, a couple things. The market is already flooded with most stranges/hats....to the point where valve had to start repeating stranges. And as ref loses value, people are more willing to craft it leading to more hats entering the market. So hats are going down due to an indirect link with Ref. Any hat that can be crafted has its value tied to Ref for that very reason--it can be crafted at any time--essentially why the fez can't go above 4 ref, since then people would just craft it for 4 ref and then sell it for more.

Keys rising in Ref has nothing to do with unusuals. It has to do with the fact that the demand to unbox is greater than ever before. More traders are around, therefore more people want to unbox. Additionally, there are more idle account then before resulting in a large amount of metal entering and therefore people want to trade ref for keys for 2 main reasons. 1) they want a stable item, which can't be acquired for free--aka idling. 2) Keys have more use/traders value them more. 3) Keys take up less space. 4) Speculation. Keys rightfully rose during halloween and then the marketplace was added. These 2 events led to speculation and keys rose (justly). And its just been a trend ever since. Speculators keep assuming keys will continue to rise so they have no problem paying up.

You can get any item in the game for 5-7 keys. Then go to the Mann Co. Store and buy like 50 keys, instantly you have every item in the game. Everyone will do this, keys will drop like mad, and keys will level out.

n oone knows how to read tf2finance. The average for the last few days is 4.78. THE BIG NUMBER IS THE DAILY AVERAGE. THE INTERACTIVE CHART IS MORE ACCURATE

You do realize theres a huge problem with following the average for the last few days, keys fluctuate constantly. So looking at a price graph that covers the last week doesn't represent what keys are CURRENTLY trading for.

your proving my point. If keys constantly fluctuate, then taking the average of the last few days would be more accurate.

whats the point? you know mods are going to close this, no matter how good or how much proof there is, but they will accept any suggestion raising the price, even with little proof.

Bad

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5178b190ba25362d57000011[/url]

Good

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517c5c8a4bd7b8cc3f000009[/url]

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517b0d9a4bd7b86d5900000d[/url] (0_o all that proof in the comments!)

dude holy shit i dont even know....2 mods agreed with me. the other guy stole my proof. keys are still easy to get for 4.66/4.77 on trade servers and then what do you know? it doesnt matter because apparantley it "sells quick"

The logic that if it sells quick and tf2outpost trades close quickly because they sell for 4.66-4.77 refined is extremely stupid. The mods are basically saying that you have to be rich in order to influence key prices, which I find to be so ironic to this sites goal.

I opened a trade selling keys for 4.66 refs and got 6+ adds instantly...

You can probably try it and you'll get the same result so i probably would consider that a quick sale price

# SOLD MATTERS, NOT HOW FAST THEY SELL

...so it's the low end of a popular item, what's your point?

Counter( to the ones that don't want keys to drop)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10402274 5.11 (Unsold in 1 hour)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10403532 5.66 (Recently and won't sell them for 5.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10035818 5.00( UNSOLD FOR 2 WEEKS!!!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10399242 5.33( Unsold for 3 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10347679 5.33 (unsold for 2 days)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400392 5.11 (unsold for 2 hours)

No one is going to buy keys over 5 ref

Link 1, brand new.

Link 2, well above current price

Link 3, 6 Ref, NOT 5.

Link 4, Brand new.

Link 5, Sold atleast 1 at 5.33 ref, (also above current range)

Link 6, brand new.

Nice fail.

link 5 didnt sell actually, he has no adds. Just because he has metal doesnt mean its from keys

Click the key genius.

> No one is going to buy keys over 5 ref

yesterday: http://i.imgur.com/u1t612S.png

April 23 (first day I sold at 5.33): http://i.imgur.com/UkM6tkl.png

that's 60+ keys sold in 2 separate 3-hour periods, all at 5.33. I didn't sell any today because I upped my price... to 6 ref.

I'm going to use other people's proof, but I will also use mine very soon, just want to already put this up.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10373995 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10109487 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10387083 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382892 2.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10340903 2.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10282305 2.55

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324985 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324688 10 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322798 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322198 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322266 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8087505 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10205171 4.88

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198044400039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386668 4.77 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10396504 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395774 6 keys 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395184 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394085 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10393697 4.77

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198011302297 selling 2 for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375490 selling for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10224409 bought one for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10332320 sold for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10283418 bought one for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607 bought a ton for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10149331 last week, bought 5 4.66 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375742 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10374931 (4.22)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10372955 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10371991 (4.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369389 (4)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9538806 bought 31 at 4.66 ref, maybe I'm gullible or not lol

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382850 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10022934 4.88

http://puu.sh/2IknV.png

http://imgur.com/DhDQ3hH.png

http://puu.sh/2HKga.png

http://puu.sh/2HKzK.png

http://puu.sh/2HKjb.png

I can't find many people for 4.55 ref, but there are sellers at 4.33 ref and 4.44 ref, but idk, I think that'd be way way too soon

Your proof is mostly a couple days old. Mind giving us more up to date proof?

most of them were fresh when i first posted them. but of course, bp.tf doesnt give a shit about sellers

scrap.tf now buying for 5 ref each. AWESOME SUGGESTION BECOMES MORE AWESOME

plenty of people sell hats for 1-1.22 ref. scrap.tf buys for 1.33. GUESS WHAT, NOT ALL PEOPLE KNOW ABOUT SCRAP.TF

And what price does bp.tf suggest for those hats? Must be 1.22-1.33 right?

No, it's 1.33. Because the point of a spreadsheet is not to chronicle every bad trade. It's to suggest reasonable prices and help people not get ripped off.

If scrap.tf buys for 1.33 and you sell for 1.22, you got ripped off. If scrap.tf buys for 5 and you sell for 4.66, you got ripped off.

Why are you so eager to see people get ripped off?

you keep saying bad trade, yet your not making any sense. Stop making offensive comments just because you dont like our argument

Haha "not making sense" WOW.

If there is 5 ref on the table, and you take 4.66 instead, that is a bad trade. 5 ref is more than 4.66.

bp.tf's job is to inform anyone selling a key that they should get 5 ref or more.

There are dozens of people offering 5 ref for a key, and now scrap.tf, with their thousands of refineds. Yet you and others are saying bp.tf should lower their suggested price, so even more people will get suckered into selling cheap.

That's dishonest and I don't like it.

Last time I check Mother Logic the reason there is a price range is because backpack.tf is there to inform both sellers AND buyers. If backpack.tf was designed only for sellers only the top price would be suggested. The bottom price is for buyers, and since this suggestion proves people can BUY the keys for that price, the BOTTOM range is going down.

Your prove that people sell at 5 ref is valid for the top range, but hold not a singe spat of proof on the bottom range.

So your logic of 'sellers get ripped off by the bottom price' works just as well as the logic 'buyers get ripped off by the top price'.

Um actually I'm proving that 5 ref is valid for the bottom number. scrap.tf resells for a profit (>5 ref). 5 ref is the minimum any seller should accept, and if they're not in a hurry they should get more.

If you're a buyer, you need to compete with scrap.tf and dozens of others paying 5. The only way you get one for less is by finding someone who doesn't know any better. You're not getting a 4.66 key from anyone who knows what they're doing.

> So your logic of 'sellers get ripped off by the bottom price' works just as well as the logic 'buyers get ripped off by the top price'.

Except the top price is too low. 5 ref is a very good price, that's what I'm paying and I have to hunt and fight for it. A buyer in a hurry should expect to pay 5.11 right now.

Now now, News Team, let naknak make a complete fool out of himself. We must let him defend his justification of raising the price of an item by a few pixels, that Valve could delete for shits and giggles. That's right, a nearly $8000 backpack, that Mr. naknak could care less about since he does not sell his keys for refined, could be wiped away just like that.

After all, how smart does he look blowing his fuse over a couple of pixels?

Look at this guy, so smugly above it all that his seething jealousy is almost concealed. How'd you type that with your arms crossed so hard?

And I have nothing that needs defending: my suggestion passed. I am attacking the ignorance and deceit and populist nonsense that appears in every one of these suggestions.

Apparently, the concept of sarcasm eludes you.

Perry, I know what 'exacerbate' means. There is not a word or a sentence or a concept that you can illuminate for me.

Don't use scrap.tf for price suggestions. Geel9 himself said so.

He said that because he doesn't want the hate. Market participants determine market conditions. A major buyer is paying 5 ref, and that means you can get 5 ref for a key, easily.

My opinion kinda counts considering I'm the one who manages the prices at scrap.tf and monitors key trades and other trades etc.

http://scrap.tf/group?g=90

And no I was not saying it was mysterious and unjustified. Just done too soon. You are twisting my words for no reason whatsoever and attempting to argue something that doesn't need arguing for gee I don't know. Trolling? The sake of it? Who knows. I was just attempting to provide some additional information but from the looks of your other comments here you are a huge asshole.

You're saying you can't keep keys in stock with a 4.66-5.11 spread. That means your buy price or sell price is too low, or both. scrap.tf wants to sell keys so they raised the buy price. Nothing about this is complicated.

> from the looks of your other comments here you are a huge asshole.

I'm right pretty much all the time, about everything that I bother to say. Some people don't like that.

If you enjoyed my work here, you will love this thread where I call out scrap.tf for thieving and get them to fix a shitty, dishonest policy. http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/scrap-tf.18260/

>I'm right pretty much all the time, about everything that I bother to say. Some people don't like that.

I think that's where the problem lies. You're so caught up in your holier than thou attitude that you are unable to take in what anyone else says. I really wish I never opened my mouth considering I wasn't even talking to you in the first place. And no it's not a matter of keeping keys in stock, the service is just very popular so the keys are usually fought over no matter what spread they are at. There's nothing more to be said here. When you are able to actually listen to counter arguments instead of treating every word that dribbles out of your mouth as a miracle maybe you will have better luck in arguments.

> the keys are usually fought over no matter what spread they are at.

Obviously wrong. If the price was too high, there would be stock. Buds are a perfect example, scrap.tf has lots.

> When you are able to actually listen to counter arguments

Have you made any? You say the price was raised too soon, and you say you couldn't keep them in stock. You are your own worst enemy here.

> I really wish I never opened my mouth

That's all I ask.

Okay I'll adopt your style of retorting.

*repeat the point I've repeated for the past few comments, disregarding anything the other side have said*

*propose new point that does not contribute to the argument*

*end it with an insult to better my self esteem*

Your turn.

(This is a lot more fun than actually proposing proper counter-arguments. I can see why you enjoy it so much)

You missed an important step:

*be right*

I think it'd be useful to know that quite a large number of keys were getting sold to scrap.tf for the old price of 4.66. On the other hand, a lot of keys were getting bought for 5.11. The keys were getting bought as fast as they were sold and the key bot was usually empty due to this. But saying that I'm not sure why the sell price was bumped up, it was a bit preemptive in my opinion.

> the key bot was usually empty

> I'm not sure why the sell price was bumped up

??????

maybe they wanted to have keys to sell?

If you read the comment I said that the keys were bought and sold equally as fast. Which hasn't changed even with the price update. The keys are still sold and bought equally as fast. About 100 keys a day were being sold to the site at 4.66 and later bought for 5.11.

So they just raised the price for fun? Had a psychotic break and decided to pay more for no reason? At equilibrium they would not always be sold out.

If they were always sold out, and raised the price, that means the keys were selling fast and buying slow.

Why are you trying to argue a point? I was simply stating some facts.

> I was simply stating some facts.

> I'm not sure why the sell price was bumped up, it was a bit preemptive in my opinion.

The reason for the price bump is obvious/simple, and you're saying it's mysterious and unjustified.

Other trade like this had loads of proof and support. Perhaps more so than the 4.88 one. Totally not a biased decision.

The suggestion to lower to 4.66-5 had better proof than to raise 4.88-5. The point of the former was to show there are 4.66 and 4.77 sellers, people who wanted to sell for these prices. The latter suggestion had way too much counter-proof of people willingly selling less than 4.88, the low-end. That should mean the former has more reason to pass. At this point, I'm way too convinced of some kind of bias behind this site.

Plus the fact that voting matters not at fucking all. If no matter what the final point total of voting is, admins have final say and the recent key suggestions (especially the last two) prove it. Why is it here if it doesn't matter?

Suggestion that is higher than current range: Accepted

Suggestion that is lower than current range: Closed

people want the prices to go down,but keep fucking paying higher than wanted.

people suck

Yeah. people are greedy and they do that so they can sell them for more later

Did you fail to examine the links of people with buying trades up for 4.88 and 5 refined? I don't see why I would currently trade keys for less than 4.88 refined unless I was super impatient and didn't have a minute to find a 4.88 buyer who was online.

Oh, look at this link I found on the recently accepted suggestion:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9981866 (this guy has plenty of metal in his bp and is currently online, buying for 4.88)

Also I wouldn't be surprised if a suggestion including 5.11 refined is accepted in the coming days, e.g. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10286723

5 AND 4.88 ARE STILL IN THSI RANGE.

at the wrong end of it

well I saw the key price today, and all I could say was "Dafuq is this shit?!?" so much proof at the low end of 4.66 >_>

Most were insta sold, and were just constanly copy and pasted old trades =_=

Dont think keys should be so high, but dont like how everyone keeps pasting walls of "proof" which nearly all are sold or troll trades (someone used someone selling their keys for 2 refs as proof...wtf?)

This is what is happening And Admins And players does not understand it...

1. Someone sees price at Backpack.tf at 4.66 ref and sells his Key on Outpost.

2. Outpost sellers buy them all at 4.66 ref

3. Outpost sellers post trades of 4.77 ref and successfully sell all

4. Backpack.tf records it as evidence and raises suggested price to 4.77 ref

5. Outpost sellers tries to sell at 4.88 AND Someone sees price at Backpack.tf at 4.77 ref and sells his Key.

8. Outpost sellers buy all available ones at 4.77 ref

9. Outpost sellers post trades of 4.88 ref and successfully sell all

10. Backpack.tf records it as evidence and raises suggested price to 5 ref

11. Outpost sellers sell at 5.11 ref

12. Rinse and Repeat

Pretty popular theory, which ignores that fact that bp.tf only included 5 ref in their range 2 days ago, while keys have been selling at 5 ref+ for 3 weeks.

Sadly Dude :(

we need long back, least his suggestions are accurate, think 5 refs have been getting sold for a while now but 4.66 refs is alsp possible .___.

damn it keys

you're being too literal in "disproving" the feedback loop with exact numbers. that's now how feedback works. the sellers know can sell at above bp.tf prices because to the buyer it seems "oh hell, i need those keys for the degreaser i want, what's an extra scrap or two over bp.tf's price?" - 3 days later that's part of the proof.

which is i guess the way it should be since people *do* pay these stupid stupid prices.

meanwhile almost 10,000 keys sold to warehouse for ~4.5 equivalent (and i see wh mentioned more and more except when it goes against the grain of suggester) which shows people are willing to sell keys for a lot less than 5 refined... but of course wh is a joke right? 10,000 friggin keys sitting in their bots. just a joke? take a look at this: http://tf2wh-charts.chrishowie.com/summary/5021/6/

over 500 keys sold to the wh in the last 24 hours and in small sized trades so unlikely some carder dumping keys... do *not* disregard the importance of this.

People say exactly the same thing about buds price suggestions, when buds are rising. But buds fell in price. How did that happen? Because not everyone uses bp.tf, and because prices rise or fall based on supply and demand. That's how most markets work, with or without accurate price reporting.

It's true that inaccurate reporting can distort a market. A lot of people think that is bp.tf's job, to act like some kind of central planning office for the economy by skewing prices, only reporting "good" ones and ignoring "bad" ones.

I think that's a bad idea for a lot of reasons. We could start and end with the fact that 95% of these would-be planners don't participate in the key-ref market much, or at all, and don't have any kind of specialized economics knowledge that makes them suited for the job.

Another good reason is that the main losers in this information war are the casual traders. Key resellers (I am one) know where the market is at, whether bp.tf reveals it or not. They are not the ones foolishly unloading keys at 4.66 just because some spreadsheet tells them to.

WH was ignored because you can't sell ref to them, making ref-key transactions effectively impossible. Is that still true?

Isn't it so adorable that naknak has no idea how the warehouse works, and therefore makes himself look like an idiot?

You don't sell metal to the warehouse, you fool. Even last year, the refined metal was almost always overstocked. You sell ITEMS, like STRANGES, HATS, and GENUINES (note how I emphasize all of them with capital letters) and turn them into keys, which is something key sellers on outpost don't want. If you actually dabbled in warehouse trades (which judging by the amount of items in your backpack and the cash value your backpack currently has, you have never done so), you'd understand that people use it to liquidate other items besides metal to liquidate keys.

Buddhapest has been tracking the amount of keys and metal, and as I have been saying and what he has proven with the data he collected, more people are buying keys straight from the source than buying keys off of paypal, outpost, or Steam Market.

Food for thought:

http://backpack.tf/market

Look how many were sold through the market. 250. In the past week THAT'S IT.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

In all days cataloged, less than 500 keys were sold per day for metal. THAT'S IT.

On average, over 50000 keys are added to the economy PER MONTH, at a rate of well over 1500 PER DAY.

Warehouse has adjusted their cap limits on keys. EIGHT TIMES. IN THE PAST THREE WEEKS. They are overstocked on TF2 Warehouse at 10000 keys. Well over 9000 keys went into the warehouse.were pumped into the Warehouse in that time period. The average I have been getting of keys sold per day from Outpost (based on tf2finance) is roughly 400 a day average.

Face the cold hard facts. The rest of the trading community is tired of this charade. THEY ARE CASHING OUT. Your reasons for supporting your increasing the prices are not infallible.

But who am I to judge? I am one of these aforementioned casual traders who has actually been paying attention to what has been happening since October. You are not explaining the problem. Traders like you ARE the problem.

So angry!

> You don't sell metal to the warehouse, you fool. Even last year, the refined metal was almost always overstocked.

That's exactly what I said. "You can't sell ref to them, making ref-key transactions effectively impossible" You make it sound like you can sell them something bought for ref, like a craft hat, but they are overstocked on most craft hats too.

I don't use WH because it's full of gotchas and I suspect there is a gotcha here. If not, start buying up those 4.44 ref keys because there are thousands of ref to be made off their stock of 10000. I'm good for a hundred at 4.66. Scrap.tf will probably take another few hundred at 5.

> you'd understand that people use it to liquidate other items besides metal to liquidate keys.

Do you understand we're talking about key-ref exchange here?

> http://backpack.tf/market

> Look how many were sold through the market. 250. In the past week THAT'S

IT.

Try 250 per hour, at 6am. That page only tracks the last 250 trades. Look at the timescale on the graph.

> http://tf2finance.com/keys/

> In all days cataloged, less than 500 keys were sold per day for metal. THAT'S IT.

No. It doesn't track every trade or even close. 60% of the data comes from RAWR's 4 trade servers (i.e., 128 people).

> THEY ARE CASHING OUT.

No. Buds are at an all-time high in dollars, and keys at an 18-month high.

> On average, over 50000 keys are added to the economy PER MONTH, at a rate of well over 1500 PER DAY.

Is that how people cash out, by buying keys from store? Number is meaningless without player counts anyway, because metal supply is tied to population.

> keys sold per day from Outpost (based on tf2finance) is roughly 400 a day average.

If that's true (it's not), it would mean I'm personally involved in 20% of all outpost key trades. You should start listening to what I say.

> Face the cold hard facts.

You don't have any.

> Traders like you ARE the problem.

Maybe for you.

I admit to faouling up on the market. But everything else is true. You are so committed to defending your position over the price of a few pixels that I can't see how your position makes sense. So what if my backpack isn't worth as uch as yours? What I see is a person who could cash out anytime he pleases, but spends his time making the same old arguments, believes that people who do not think like him lack intelligence. You're one of those people who argues against crafting anything with metal because you'd lose one measly dollar crafting 3 refined for a hat. If that is how paranoid I get about the game that I start babbling economy nonsense, then I don't ever want to be that rich, as it looks like you care more about yourself and less about the community, what with a backpack worth nearly $8000

> everything else is true

I debunked your whole post. Everywhere you use a number, it's way off. Every conclusion you draw ("volume down", "mass cashout", "glut of wh keys") is tainted.

> So what if my backpack isn't worth as uch as yours?

I never mentioned that. What matters is that you don't buy or sell keys.

> you'd lose one measly dollar crafting 3 refined for a hat.

55 cents

> economy nonsense,

That's all I see from your camp.

"5 ref is a high price for keys, but I'm not selling any of mine for that"

"WH has mass keys at 4.44 but I'm not buying any of them"

"I don't need to buy or sell any keys to know what they cost"

"Key prices should be lower. We should underreport market conditions to make this happen" (I actually agree that keys should get cheaper, but lying on a spreadsheet is not the way to do it).

> care more about yourself and less about the community

Keys are not even 1% of my bp value. Why would I bother with a fake price on them, when doing the same on v.bills or v.masks would be 100 times more productive?

I'm out to protect the guy who buys one key a month from the store to spend in a game he enjoys. He deserves to get full value for it, not the 4.77 ref you want to tell him is a "good price". That is the guy you're screwing with this fantasy of yours.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10432526 4.33 20 minutes ago. No one is trying to offend you, yet your being and making yourself look like a giant ass.

And I sold 4 keys for 6 ref each in items, an hour ago. Should the range be 4.33-6? Outliers are going to exist, you don't need to show us every one you find.

Let naknak defend his seventh grade interpretation of how an economy works. He's backed himself into a corner anyway, and he comes of as nothing more than an entitled, spoiled brat.

@Poncho: That's a personal attack, also known as a Strawman fallacy. Please focus upon the ideas that are being discussed rather than detracting from your own ideas by using fallacies.

These prices work fine during daylight hours in the US but at night I couldn't find anyone with a key for less then 5 refined. I payed due to a lack of wanted to wait

BECAUSE THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYINGK KEYS FOR 4,88-5 === NOBODY WILL SELLING THEM FOR 4,66 (in trades, I mean. Nobody agrue that YOU CAN FIND em for 4,66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9996731

Some guys buy and sell em for 2,55. It means nothing

Yes-yes-yes go down!

Everyone giving proof here has to get a place in some hall of heroes :)!

What heck are you guys doing , you don't post lower key prices if you find some people selling for less! No! You suggest a lower key price if people are not buying at the current one , which is , currently not happening. Vice versa for selling, if people are demanding alot the price doesn't change , but if most people (not people who are in serious oposition to price rise) don't want 4.66 for their keys , it rises.

why not jut make them over 9000 ref each and be done with it. i tried to make it a suggestion but it didnt work :(

too cheap withen a day of doing that someone would put up a new suggestion

9000.11 ref

then 9000. 66 ref the day after that

Any proof of successful buyers getting more than a handful of keys within the last week at 4.77 or less ?

Yes, but none that I can link to. A few guys are buying keys @4.77 on a server called HellsGamers Minecraft trade server. iJonny is his name, and a few others as well.

-Will be back with more proof

Hatch and the Mods are simply working together. They dont seem to care for our Counterproof. They just want to increase their backpack Value -.-

OMG a miracle

additional proof

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10413926

(sold a lot!!!)

yay matje :DDDDDD

That was sarcasm........

First Long and now Mattje? There is a God after all!

are you guys serious

Ye key must go down becouse this is a bit much ye? 5 refs for 1 key...?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/18642216/long218%20simulator/lolkeys.html

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10399868

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10408167

MORE PROOF:

SOLD FOR 2.44

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/1873311[/url]

Seems legit.

selling for 4.55 each: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416149

i miss the times where the keys was 2.66 ref.....

If this gets closed with major upvotes then I'm going to start a gallery of key prices

admins must be closed it.

its very nice proof >>> http://tf2finance.com/keys/

dudes I also want to key cost 2.66 , but this site is the biggest proof :..(

Just wondering, can i buy your keys for 4.88? I have a bit to much ref. We can both be happy, I have my key, you can buy another for the supposedly abundant 4.66 trades.

Go back to your spreadsheet and stop posting if you dislike backpack so much.

I see no difference

All that I am saying is that if you hate this place so much, mabey you should leave. Your just giving the place add revenue and helping it stay up.

One has a mini game on the main menu

What the hell is wrong with you and the people upvoting your comment?

Don't any of you have a shred of logical pragmatic sense?

You're discriminating the owners of a website you're USING, and blaming them for the key increase. Lithium is right. If you hate this place so damn much, get out. Every second you spend here gives the place advertisement revenue and helps it stay up.

Bloody hell, facepalm.

the last 2 suggestions passed were total bullsh*t. puddington didnt even bother to check my links or my comments and accepted hatch's. the one clever accepted was the worst of all. she said, quote "i accepted it based on the high end not the low." wtf is that supposed to mean? that she accepted a key suggestion that had an inaccurate low end? if you accept a suggestion, accept the right one goddamnit

She accepted the one with an accurate average

she said, quote, "i accepted that range based on the high range, not the low"

Well, I think that's what she meant, being the logical reason to pass it.

sory, all i read was "the last 2 suggestions passed were total bullsh*t" and i assumed the rest was whining too.

wtf. how do you get the "average" from "based on the high range, not the low"

I was putting words into her mouth, mavey (i hope) thats what she meant. Doesnt matter though, weather for the right reasons or not, shes on my side.

hey i've never gotten it, why have you always wanted keys to rise?

and so you're side is accepting suggestions that have inadequate proof and accepting it because it partially right?

Nah, your side is the one with inadequate proof in my opinion. Also, the price I would buy and sell keys is higher. I don't want keys to rise, I want my favorite spreadsheet to be accurate. I would probably benifite if keys went down, only having 5. Also lol, you said it was right, (partly but you still said it)

Wondered why you were getting downvotes. Then I saw you saying I was right.

oh.

can i use that saying? that is like a god-tier quote

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10415270[/url]

Sold for 4.66

The fact that one of the admins actually ACCEPTED HATCH'S suggestion and NOT CHIGGA's who everyone else agrees with makes this site that much more sad, the admins want proof chigga provided TONS of proof that you can buy under the price but of course Michael Puddington has to accept the shittiest suggestion out there. If the admins can't accept the right price then this site is useless and I can just make a suggestion with tons of crappy proof to raise key prices and it will probably get increased, you are a ADMIN, you shouldn't make it look like you don't deserve it by making decisions and trying to manipulate the damn price. When chigga can find tons of proof that you can buy under the 4.66 ref price that means that IT IS STILL POSSIBLE TO BUY AT 4.66, maybe its time for brad to making some changes in WHICH MODERATOR or ADMIN can accept/close key prices because it seems even after 100's of links of counterproof a decreasing key suggestion cannot be accepted.

if this one fails.... http://backpack.tf/vote/id/517cadbaba2536ad7100000a

if this one or yours gets closed it will show sincerely the unaccuracy of this site, everytime im on a unususal server and someone brings up a bp.tf price they get bashed on by everyone on it because people noticed this site went down the damn drain with key prices and everything else that follows because SOME of the ADMINS/MODERATORS who run this try to manipulate key prices, even when you provide a shit ton of counterproof.

"omg, a scrap. no, idc about bp.tf saying its 4.88-5 ref. i want 5.11 ref. if not u can go smd."

shut the hell up you greedy bastards

Lol, no one has ever said that. I never sell keys and it would probably benefit me if they went down. (only having 5 keys) I realy dont want my favorite price listing to be wrong though.

Moa proff

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419856 5.33( unsold for 1 hour)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10409556 5.33( unsold for 8 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416546 5.33 (unsold for 3 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419856 5.33 (unsold for 1 hour)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382353 5.33 (unsold for 1 day)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10383536 5.66 (unsold for 1 day)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10157908 5.55 (Unsold for 1 week)(Maybe????)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8846644 5.33 ( hasn't sold a key)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10418826 5.11 (unsold for 1 Hour)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10093553 5.33 (unsold for 1 week)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10420077 5.22 (unsold for 1 hour)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/34969 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381982 5.22 ( still has keys in sock never sold any for 1 day)(Only sold 2)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400994 5.33 (unsold for 16 hours)

These were recent when i checked.

All of these are above what the current price is. This in no way helps this suggestion pass. Also 1 hour-1 day is not that long to be unsold.

Umm but these are links to the keys that are can not be sol for +5 ref

erm.... no. Most of them have sold, and they do not help the sugested range because they neither disprove the curent range (4.88-5) nor assist the sugested range (4.77-5) also the 5.11 sold, the first link sold, the 4th link sold and so on. If anything, these links show that the price should go up. I will now precede to use them as proof for bringing the price up, thankyou.

If it helps as proof that the price of keys is leveling off or starting to stabilize, a careful reexamination of the marketplace will show that the price of keys in cash has fallen back below the $2.40 mark and has been bouncing between outlier lows at around $2.25 and an average of $3.35

um keys r 1.35 dollars dude

hes obviously talking about the steam community market.

I really dont think so, how would people sell for 3.35 dollars on marketplace? or anywhere

now that part was made up. But the $2.40~ is the average price in the steam market.

kk ty for dat information

I easliy sold mine for 5.33. The only reason some people are selling cheaper is because the market is rising so fast that not everyone is keeping up. I dont think there dropping at all, the price range is just very wide.

Or some people havent realized that people are selling lower than the annoying ressellers

Sure, if you want to buy 1 key at a time. If you want the convenience of buying in quantity (8+ keys) you are almost certainly paying 5.33.

Thats a lie i sold a key for 2.66 weasily within seconds

I WILL BUY ANY KEY FOR 4.88 OR LESS REF

PLS ADD.

I believe the current price and i believe the real market price is even higher.

Please sell me some keys

Perhaps you don't understand, this is not a marketing place to buy or sell anything, that's elsewhere in this website, please don't spam this with nonsense. Also, why do you go around telling some sellers to sell higher?

first sentence: my coment was me saying that the price is not going down, and these people know it, that is why they wont sell me the keys. Second sentence: partly for the lulz, partly to anoy people who shark the people, partly to be nice to the new players.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419466 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10420772 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419892 4.66

Cheers for that post!!!one person who is not going crazy!!....keys 5 ref.....Mother Of God!!

Took me a couple seconds to load this suggestion. This must be serious.

if the inflation continues, the whole tf2 economy will collapse, so lowering the value of keys is a good idea.

Did anyone call for more proof? Preferrably even below this range?

Seriously, this might not account to anything, but I'll do anything I can to help:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10112700 - 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9135243 - 2.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10174785 - 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10179145 - 2.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10282305 - 2.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10125511 - 3.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6708478 - 4.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9415525 - Selling Keys for Gen. Distinguished Rogues (4.33 ref per key on the top level?)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_vRz26yDz-RU/S95o4fPZhII/AAAAAAAABfM/qnGgfZwHR18/s1600/normal01.jpg

The fact you can find 6 trades at 2-3 ref really destroys the idea that 80 trades at 4.66 ref means anything. Suppose average price was 4.66 (low) and standard deviation 0.55 ref (high), the existence of 8 trades at 3 SD below the mean implies there should be over 4000 trades at 4.66.

So... you're trying to make my low-end listings look like counter-proof? That's the way I read it as.

I also see that you're one of the people who have a key suggestion confirmed, so maybe I shouldn't get on you like that.

It counter-proves the idea that 80 trades at 4.66 is significant.

Suppose you found 80 people who are 5 feet tall, in a total population of unknown size. You might conclude 5 feet is a typical height.

If you then found 6 people who are 3 feet tall, it would mean the population is very very large, because we know 3 feet is a very unusual height. It diminishes the significance of the sample of 80 people. If there are 6 people at 3 feet tall, and 5 feet is an average height, there should be thousands of them.

Using the normal distribution (that image I linked), you can estimate total population by looking at the extremes of that population, and making educated guesses about standard deviation.

It might not do anything, but it certainly doesnt counterprove anything

it doesnt do anything naknak. And what you said makes no logical sense

it needs to be lower

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10424410

Here you go, 4.00 ref.

"IM ASIAN SO DONT ACCEPT ANYONE ELSE"

This made me laugh XD

There is something critical about key-ref trades that I don't quite understand, and I hope someone could explain the, if any, pragmatic logic behind this.

Why are people trying to buy key for 2.66 ref? *or somewhere around that amount

~ "Oh, yeah. Fuck the greedy people buying keys at market value. Sell your key for half price to me instead. I'm not a hypocrite at all.

~ It'll totally make a difference. That small shred of a sale must impact the market greatly and can be used as sufficient proof for lowering keys.

~ Bought: 935903589390589893589054890353893895389549805853890.69 keys.

~ Planning to resell any I buy? = [Oh yeah totally. For 5.33 ref.] or [Nope. Unbox or hoard.]

~ Join this #SAVETHEKEYS group. #Y0L0SW4G #FUKDAPOL1CE #BASEDCoD #SMOKEW33D

Really, why do these people do what they do?

* This is just a very generalized version of it. A lot of people don't advertise #savethekeys or actually do resell or don't have fake 'bought:9001' counters.

I just don't understand the psychology behind calling people selling keys at the market value greedy, and then trying to buy for half the market value in the name of justice.

Anyone? HELP?!?!?

Edit: don't get me wrong, I want keys to go back to 2.66 ref too, but this method seems like an inane way of going about it.

Emotions and dogma are powerful things. At one time, people were put to death for claiming that the Earth orbits the sun.

Many of these people are convinced that rising key prices are the work of some organized evil. Really, it's simple supply and demand.

I went on outpost and the first thing I've seen was this trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10404400

Stop this insanity, the current range is fine!

That's inside the suggested range.

Indeed, it is. The trade I listed shows that keys are barely being bought for 4.88, and the new range 4.66-5 indicates that keys can be bought for 4.66

Oh, wow, good job. Thanks to that evidence, the hungry have been fed, the homeless have been given homes, and there's eternal world peace.

happy trading.

Ill buy your 1 key for my 2 keys

cashed out, time to watch this shitstorm in the making

that's an original idea #acesgamer

kermit makes youtube videos?

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)