Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.66–5.11 ref

please tell me if i should repost this with a different range, this was chosen to cause the least rage, but a more acurate range would be 4.66-5.33 or 4.88-5.11. Please telll me if a diferent range would be better.

Lol, looking at the first few coments, the last price brought it down, its going the other way now.

Dont call me selfish, im nice http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400907 see?

cause there were tons of proof that they can be sell at 4.66

again. sigh. digging for proof/waiting for others opinion

Why 4.66 is in range

why do you think mod accepted 4.66 instead of 4.77 ?

Everyone know the economy is fucked when Long changes his name to "Cash out and retired".

"Tf2finance has..."

Downvote. instant downvote.

Until I see tf2finance with its own actual evidence, I won't consider it proof. If its so proficient at knowing prices, lets see an algorithm. Until then, tf2finance is just hearsay that has its own website and charts.

You could always, I dunno, look at Base64's posts on the backpack.tf forums or his previous comments here. But it seems that's too much work, no? Easy to criticize and demand, hard to do.

I'd like to point out that trade.tf also has the median key price at around 5 ref. http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

What base64 has are arguments based on events that occurred in mannco economic history, such as the advent of the marketplace, the sheer number of item ilders and the proliferation of mid-tier hats which are priced in keys.

I read his articles. I understand his perspectives. He is a smart individual who is clearly college educated. That being said, it is also quite clear to me and most of the community that keys started to climb when this site started to accept the highballer price as the average price. What then happened is the following which has been said ad nausem:

Highballer puts post out there saying buying keys for 4.66-4.77, add me dont message here. Highballer gets added, however transaction not "recorded" on tf2op. Highballer posts keys on tf2op at 5.33 per key. Desperate buyer (sometimes u find a good deal, needs immediate key) buys key. Sale is "recorded".

Guy with who needs self-esteem and brownie points looks to get badge and likes to incite stuff posts key increase using tf2op. Smugly he posts how much fun it is and then provides selective evidence.

Bottomline is this: Bp.tf, for better or worse is a market force when it comes to key prices. If prices are left unchanged for a month, guess what, the price will not change. Eventually, if that trend continued, it could provide disincentive for the key horders. At which point, they may sell off thier multiple pages of keys which will bring keys down to probably to 4ref. The price will never be 2.66ref again and will gradually drift up as more ref are put in the market BUT it won't just jump a scrap or 2 every single day.

If we stop updating the price, we have price manipulation.

Also, do you remember back when keys were around 3 ref I believe. The prices were not updated as often, and keys were already being traded for 3.33.

We were trying to go slow on the price updates. as you can see, key prices has never been over 5 ref here and they are being traded for 5.33. Yes, backpack.tf has an effect on the prices, but minor compared to WHY keys are in such a high demand.

Well there should be more order to it, mabye once a week review? Functionally, I don't think the price changed higher in a matter of 3 hours; which the poster is implicitly implying. Price change was just accepted.

Keys are gonna continue to go up now, theres no denying that point. I'm more troubled at the rate of increase. It doesn't seem correct. Ill elaborate more later, gtg...:(

The rate of price increase is actually faster. If we were as fast as the market, key prices would be 4.88-5.22 instead of 4.66-5.

If you don't stop updating the price, and keep raising the prices to the few demanding higher and higher prices, that is also considered price manipulation.

At this point we're raising the prices to the many offering higher and higher prices. Suggestions have been completely buyer trade driven for a good while now. Except for, ironically, the most recent which dropped the low range.

It has an effect, yet I don't consider it manipulation.

I think most of the price updates that raised key prices recently were because of buyers that were buying above the at-the-time currently reflected price.

i very much agree with tasty about the weekly review. one week is very important in the world of tf2. item drops get reset every thursday which surely increases trade volume on thursdays. then there's the weekend when a lot more gaming activity happens. the cycle repeats weekly and frankly *all* pricing should be done once a week (i would suggest tuesdays, far enough from both the weekend and the item drop reset to be the most "stable").

of course this wouldn't be wired shut, admins could override if a bad suggestion somehow made it through.

give it some thought ;)

We're in talks about *something* like this. But honestly I'm only up for it when it comes to keys. The rest of the items were just fine.

Then where is your order?

where is your rule?

where is your responsibility in calling yourself an admin if you can't even keep up with current events?

which is why as soon as bp.tf lowered the price of keys, finance never showed keys above 5 ref

>Bottomline is this: Bp.tf, for better or worse is a market force when it comes to key prices. If prices are left unchanged for a month, guess what, the price will not change. Eventually, if that trend continued, it could provide disincentive for the key horders.

There's no real way to prove that. And if you really have complaints about tf2finance, you can always go to the recently established trade.tf, where the founder had posted exactly how he gets the price as well as an interesting study on /r/tf2trade as well as other sites.

I disagree, unfortunately.

When keys on this site weren't updated for nearly a week, prices slowly rose up by 1 rec before the site finally updated its price.

That acts as proof that backpack.tf is *not* a force on the prices. They continued to increase, even without backpack.tf's interference.

Yeah, I don't like TF2finance as their "proof" for these suggestions.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=rYTsF6Mt6s4

Very relevant

A comment with 100+ likes. Congrats.

i just bought 6 at 5.11, its hard to find sellers in this category of 4.66 when everyone is buying at 5ref and selling for 5.33, i gave up after 10pages waited an hr or two then repeat did this a few times then cashed in on 5.11

That's because you're sifting through pages of Outpost. There are trade servers out there that people go to to trade stuff. Even keys. It might not be as instantaneous, but so far today, I have heard plenty of people selling their keys for 4.88. Some even sell for lower. If you're looking to buy keys, go to a trade server and stop wasting your time on Outpost. And if you're a re-seller, I have no sympathy for you.

PPPPPPPPPPPPREACH

I've spent hours in trade servers recently and haven't seen anyone selling keys for less than 5 refined. I've seen people buying them for lower, though (I'm not sure if they managed to buy any or not, but they were trying to).

"Tf2 finance has been at 4.9-5.1 for the past three days"

Not even close to 5.1.

5.1 and 5.01 are not the same!

but sadly, thats an average price. meaning that for all the trades at 4.66, there are an equal amount of trades at 5.35

however people dont realize that tf2finance is an estimate, and can easily be abused.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10301706

Best post on Outpost I've ever seen.

IM GOING TO KILL MYSELF

You should probably call your local suicide hotline.

Im okay with this comment.

Oh no, key goes up a scrap. Think of the suicide rate.

See?!

This guy gets it.

Call 800-237-TALK (8255) or 800-SUICIDE (784-2433).

Congrats, you are Long #3 -__-

Insta-downvote...

that's why keys get passed in the -200s

Perhaps why there is no stock in scrap.tf is because:

1) No one wants to buy a key for 5.11

2) Some are cashing out right now within the range in question.

3) The fact that TF2 Warehouse is at 99% capacitiy, meaning a lot of traders are liquidating keys for higher value items.

4) Most people are actually patient enough to spend 5 or more minutes To search on Outpost for cheaper keys.

5) People are questioning the accuracy of TF2 Finance, since now it is shown that the site can be easily manipulated towards reporting higher prices with so few transactions for keys to metal on Outpost..

A lot of people are wanting to buy a key for 5.11 now that this suggestion appeared. If there is no stock in scrap.tf, it's simply that nobody wants to sell their keys, and even more for 4.77. Keys will probably not go over 5.11 for a long time, as its price is kinda stabilized now, so I think this suggestion is valid (even if the number of trades listed is low for a key suggestion)

From what I see on TF2 Warehouse, the opposite is true. One does not ignore the fact that Warehouse is overstocked on keys, at a limit of 10000, and assume that people are still buying keys. With Warehouse, you can skip the middleman and sell items (besides metal) to get keys. Scrap.tf should not even count as proof, because, let's be honest, few keys are moving through scrap.tf even as is.

Bottom line: a complete overstock on keys on Warehouse should tell you how few keys are actually being bought on the market.

I'll remind you again (or tell you if you havent heard it before) that scrap.tf should not be used as proof for price increases. As Geel has said himself, it caters to people who need to buy things quickly, or in bulk, or without the perceived fuss of trading, and they'll pay a premium for that. All or any of those reasons would discount it. Not to mention that scrap not having any keys could mean that their price is too high, or too low, and you cant really know because their price is constantly changing.

btw...you were like the 10th guy who added him for the keys. if you were the 1st guy im sure you wouldve happily taken the keys

All I can say is what are you talking about?

Anyway, I don't know if it's time to include 5.11 ref, but as far as range goes I don't think the key range needs to be any wider than a reclaimed. Just my 2 cents.

who dafuk is paying 5.11?! and who dafuk care about TF2 finance? the keys just falled down... there is no rsn y u should rise it... its for ur intresses

It's been a week and I still haven't been able to buy keys for 4.66 ref. :/ Why is still in the range if trades aren't even possible at that price?

Because or else people will say:"but but but we have proof for 4.66-4.77! DOWNVOTE"

"Let's just make the gap wider rather than admit that keys are actually being sold at the lower end of the range."

"Good idea!"

Yaok.

If you want to sell me keys at the lower end of the range, I'm happy to buy! :)

Already sold them :)

Backpack.tf and tf2finance should put in a mandatory cool off time where prices cannot be lowered or raised for a period of say, for example, 2 days.

It wouldn't work with tf2finance by nature of how it operates, collecting and averaging live data. But we're in talks for a rule regarding cool off time for bp.tf suggestions.

Cool thanks.

Would that cool-off time apply to every item or only keys?

I would assume every item to make it fair

Guys, if this reaches 1000 downvotes the admin HAS to decline it, because of the new system thing I think, so let's just downvote lol.

Isn't that price manipulation? The exact same thing you guys have been complaining about whenever the price goes up? So why the double standard?

well, that seems to be the only way this can be declined because admins accept almost every key suggestion for increasing the price even if the proof is bad and not enough.

It does not work that way. If we didn't accept suggestions based on the market but rather on votes, key prices here would be 2.66 while trades happened at 4-5 ref.

He's talking about the mods accepting a suggestion that has very little proof and a multitude of downvotes while declining a suggestion with much more proof and many more upvotes

That was exactly what I meant. I was kinda tired when I wrote that tbh

If that's what you actually meant, then you should agree that the keys are being traded for 4.66(RARE) to 5.33( RARE). So the range should either be 4.66-5.33 if we consider quicksells and quickbuys or 4.88-5.11.

The following is in response to your more recent response in a different conversation train. We reached the comment limit:

But there is no reason a suggestion with much less valid proof should be accepted over another suggestion with more valid proof, as what has been happening to a number of suggestions recently.

The recent suggestion of 4.66-5 ref had A LOT of proof within it. Therefore it got passed. Some of the other suggestions that were CLOSED had a LOT of proof, while some of the ones encouraging a price raise did not have what many people deemed as enough proof and had overwhelming negative points, yet got ACCEPTED.

I agree we should vote based on the market. But the admins weren't accepting and closing suggestions based on the market.

Everybody that sells keys, besides those quickselling for profit, sell at 5 ref or below. I was on tf2outpost.com for 3 minutes and found 3 trades for 5 ref. Here is one selling a bunch of keys: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10467730

He was selling 16 keys for that price.

Sold for 4.77: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10468708

5 ref: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10468779

5 ref: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10468849

All in range man, all in range.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10447791

4.88 seller for ya

Within current range.

Selling 1 key of the millions that exist, is that proof?

theres not millions of keys lol theres not even 1 million

Forgive me, but you can't be serious. Last suggestion accepted 3 hours ago, with WAY more proof than this.

Slow down, last suggestion was accepted 3 hours ago

Really? 3 hours after the last one was accepted? -__- i don't think waiting a day would cause any major harm

Welcome to backpack.tf key suggestions. If there isn't an open suggestion, then the world must be ending.

And by the way, one scrap change is less than 5%. It's a 2.33...% change to be precise.

That rule has never been policed. If it were almost all key suggestions couldn't have been passed.

True, but most key suggestions SHOULDN'T have passed in the first place.

Range is too wide...

All 5 ref sellers get 5+adds in 30 sec of posting. I personally think 4.88-5.11, but what ever. Upvote.

the 4.66-5 shouldn't have passed. All the 4.66,4.77 proof were quicksellers and people trying to lower the price of keys.

5 ref sellers get insta add because people expect keys to continue inflating.

If we made the price slowly notch down, even if 1 scrap every 2 weeks, people will follow. Same as they do going up, same they can going down.

I get that, but that doesn't change the fact that CURRENTLY this range is representative of the market. It has people who want keys to go down and people who believe that keys will continue to rise.

That's a paradox. You cannot stretch the range to accomodate, because sellers will always sell above the high point.

By lowering the entire range as slowly as it had raised, metal and keys can stabilize and highballers will lower to accomodate.

So basically, you just want keys to drop.

Don't try to deny it.

I want them to stabilize, so same thing.

I own like 15 so it's not exactly "too poor to afford them"

next weeek on backpack.tf, Keys. 1-6 refined

The words you used conflict.

Most consider the rate at which keys 'rose' was no where near slow. Also a continuous lowering of key prices does nothing to 'stabilize' the market for keys because a stable market would mean that there is more or less a set rate that transactions occur in with slight fluctuations. These 'highballers' quite frankly do not have much to accommodate towards since there is a much more massive influx of metal every week than there are keys coming onto the market. Metal can be gained by idling weekly while keys cost $2.49 in the Mann. Co. Store, $2.15-$2.20 on the Steam Beta Market, and $1.40-$1.50 using PayPal. Metal supply is much easier to increase since the only way to produce more of it is by sitting around for a couple hours while the key supply increasing would need to come from people buying actually buying from the Mann. Co. Store and bypassing the other two main cheaper alternatives.

why dont you just fucking raize it to 1 fucking earbud already?! god the system is getting more and more selfish

you just COULDN'T wait, could you.

You're literally just rewording "4.77-5"

We have a chance here to save the keys, don't fuck it up.

EDIT whoops didnt mean to reply

hahahahahahah lol

Went over the 5.33 and 5.22 trades. I may do the rest later, but this is to at least prove that 5.33 or 5.22 should NOT be in the range like the suggester was thinking of resubmitting as.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416546 (Took 1 day to sell one of their 49 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10157908 (Unconfirmed if sold at 5.33 refined. The trade happened over a week ago so it's too old to matter anyway)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10374081 (Slightly different than other trades. The bot gives all profit to charity. Plus added convenience from 24/7 trading)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10364709 (selling them for 5.11, not 5.33. Both unsold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10192236 (Legitimate link)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8369543 (No comment about a trade going through. People would pay extra for the convinience.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10274942 (Still has 2 keys. Week old trade)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9440403 (After checking the history of mk1's metal, I can't see any going to GRK)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10407225 (Owner of trade has no new metal from Kajko24. Kajko24 has no new keys.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10363925 (After checking the history of the commentor's two keys, they come from the user Maartenftw. Maarteenftw was selling keys for 5 ref http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448050)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10429474 (The key that belongs to someone else is someone selling games for keys. D0G has no new metal.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400994 (The user who commented doesn't own a key)

5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10036959 (Sold a single key for 5.22, 8 unsold)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10266475 (Stated 120+ are sold but there's only a single comment of someone saying they added)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10433358 (Legitimate link)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10441168 (One new key, 1.33 new metal.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416278 (Neither commentor has keys from the seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10427214 (Neither commntor has keys from the seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10196525 (Only comment of someone adding the seller was a week ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10364627 (No comments about being added. Two of his keys belong to "Dobby the House Elf". However, Dobby's sniper rifle with strange parts now belongs to the Jrsooner)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10431131 (Armored Lemming has no keys owned by the seller. Neither does I4I0)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10368792 (Bot 24 hour convinience makes it slightly different from other trades.)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8287902 (The seller is banned...)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10335007 (since this seller's price change there has been only one add. That user doesn't have any keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10417446 (No commentor has keys owned by the seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10364490 (Has no metal that was owned by commentors. Commentors have no keys that were owned by seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10412824 (Legitimate link)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10286723 (Legitimate link)

Akuma you're wrong with my trade : http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10335007 . I sold like 20 keys on the same day for 5,22 and you think that because i nearly restocked my keys in like 10 min. And btw how do you check my adds xD.

Just so we can be sure, why dont you post a trade history screen shot of these 20 keys being sold? I hope they weren't all sold to the same person.

damn......we just voted on this cool your jets

http://scrap.tf/keys ---- Selling for 5.11. Keys are being sold, currently out of stock because everyone bought their keys. Conclusion? Key prices need to go up!

refresh the page, lel.

they are talking about selling to others. There it is called: Current Buy Price. That is how much users can buy FROM THEM. if you try to buy, they are out of stock, and run out every 5 minutes or so.

they don't move very many keys actually - and some of those keys are from the item banking

You can look about to see my comment about scrap.tf and proof. But to summarize, even Geel9 himself has said that it shouldn't be used as proof, because it caters to bulk buyers and people who will pay a premium to not have to deal with traders.

Seriously are you really that greedy? Its starting to seem like buying them in the Mann Co. Store is cheaper...

im waiting for the robo keys to show up in mannco store so i can sell them at 2 regular keys, cheaper than buying from sourceop ;)

downvote -_-''

Selling =/= sold

press search and found these right on the front. too easy

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10452537

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10452541

I am forced to break my own rule, Im sory, it wont happen again

Using the same argument as the last passed sugestion.

1 its in my range

2 people still willingly buy from the higher priced traders.

Just wondering, WHY CAN'T WE JUST AGREE THAT KEY=5REF?

Sorry for caps. It's fun to do.

BECAUSE LESS THAN HALF A YEAR AGO IT WAS 2.55*

*don't quote me on that lol

if there are available keys at 5(plenty actually) then why would anyone pay more ?

Idk. Same reason if there are buyers at 5 ref people will make trades selling for 4.66?

Because demand for keys is so high that all those trades get 5+adds in <15 seconds >_<

5 ref keys available in plenty? where?

People buying at 4.66-5.00, selling at 5.11-5.33. I think this range is alright if not underpriced, but that can be changed later

what about... NO

Finally decided to go on a trade server to see if the claims of "I FOUND LIKE LOTS OF SELLERS FOR 4.66-4.88 ON A TRADE SERVER BLAAAAHHHH" were true.

To my surprise, I found a 4.88 seller within minutes. Bought 4 keys. http://i.imgur.com/UD6L1yk.png?1 - Couldn't find any lower, or another seller for the same amount, however.

4.88-5 refined is the most accurate price. This range shouldn't have been accepted. It's too broad.

Well I'll be damned, backpack.tf had an influence. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10453562

That might be the cause, but there's 4.66 trades fairly frequently on outpost. They just get bought instantly and buried.

The fact that 4.66 sellers were occassionally popping up is WHY the last suggestion managed to pass in the first place. A single random trader popping up at 4.66 and immediately completing is by no means anything new.

That said, it got me watching outpost, and 5 ref sellers now take longer than a few seconds to disappear. The little red arrow at work?

I know they existed beforehand and that's why the suggestion got accepted. I just posted it for the likes. Anyways if it truly takes a red arrow to break a market, then we should sit for a few more days and see how much backpack.tf truly 'dictates' market value.

Definitely. Keeping a close eye on things.

do those of us who pointed out the idea of feedback back in january get an "i told you so" if the trend remains while the arrow is red? :)

Whatever helps you sleep at night. :)

Faps helps me sleep

Been watching and, as expected, it's not sticking. There's a minor influence in that a few paranoid fools jumped to sell their keys for 5 ref, causing a minor swell in the sellers, but they're all ultimately devoured by the insatiable key buyers. New trades of people wanting to buy at 5 refined are still being made regularly and no one has any reason to sell for less except out of generosity or misinformation. The number of key sellers that do rely on bp.tf as the feedback theory believes has barely caused a blip. Any influence bp.tf has on the market is ultimately negligible in the face of the massive key market.

ya, i still don't get this need for metal -> key quickbuying. the people are nuts.

What you are seeing right now, Vincent, is the end result of the feedback loop. So much hype has been put into the keys, and the feedback loop has been going on for so long, that eventually they start to think that you can't get the cheaper. The fact of the matter is, however, that far too few of these keys are being sold at the current price for a suggestion to pass.

Scrap.tf is far to unreliable to guage a price in. Pretty much, I am basing my downvote for this suggestion based on what I have seen in the TF2 Warehouse. During the past three weeks, well over 13000-14000 keys went into the Warehouse. Currently, the Warehouse either is close to overstock or is overstocked on keys.It implies a lot of people cashing out on keys, skipping metal transactions, and looking for higher value items in the warehouse to cash out on. The key market is extremely unstable, and the whole fiasco pretty much was fed by lies by the people that were constantly getting the suggestions apprved, and as it turns out, the links that used to help confirm the prices may not be reliable, as they can be easily manipulated.

The key to Outpost trading is to be patient with trying to get something at a lower price and be consistent about it. What I see now is a lot of braindead traders with the attention span of a goldfish. They give up and agree on what to me looks like questionable or completely inaccurate bullet points based on information the pulled from this website during our key discussions.

What you see right now is that the feedback loop has evolved to the point that it's now self sustaining, that this false information has been going on for so long that they accept these falsehoods (based off of nothing) as proof.

You underestimate the incalculable damage this key fiasco has wreaked on this economy. There are multiple trades on Outpost that have the tagline that prices even higher than the current range will be accepted by backpack.tf.

When will the site, the admins, the community, understand that reporting the prices is the same thing as establishing the prices? How much more proof do you need that this has gone far enough and needs to stop? Or will you risk having your site's credibility go under more scrutiny? The last several key suggestions for raising the price had over half the community give the suggestion a negative score.The one that was accepted before today's suggestion for 4.66-5 refined had TWO THIRDS OF THE COMMUNITY DOWNVOTE THE SUGGESTION, yet it was accepted.

If this denial keeps going on up to Halloween, and no one can afford a key because they are going for 10 refined, the whole trading community will implode and this site will be thrown under the bus by the community at large. Meanwhile, this site will be the laughingstock of the community for allowing key prices in metal to balloon by 400%, and no one is going to believe that the mods were just reporting prices.

Sorry, Poncho. Every chance the 'feedback loop' theory has been given, it's failed. The community uses every exuse in the book to force bp.tf prices to underprice? People keep on buying, key prices keep going up. The site stalls in prices due to suggestion politics? People keep on buying, key prices keep on going up. The community manages to twist logic into a hideous abomination and have the low range dropped when the top range is already an easily available buyer trade and sellers who price at it get swarmed? Key prices keep on selling above range. Any faith in the feedback loop is just people either needing some villain to blame or clinging to the hope that there is some chance that key prices can be 'saved'. You can make all the excuses you want for it, but in my eyes, it's dead. It isn't holding up now, and has never held up in the past.

As far as no one believing the mods were just reporting prices? It's all 100% transparent. Every single suggestion is readily available for anyone to scrutinize. But even under the eyes of hundreds of users, nothing more can be dredged up beyond 'Look! There was negative votes and they accepted!'. Compare against the spreadsheet, where a case for manipulation managed to be made with every price change beind made silently and the account of the one running it being kept private. If there was a real case to be made, it'd have been done so a dozen times over already.

Anyway, this is getting to be a bit much for comments in a key suggestion. If we're going to continue this, it should be brought over to the forums.

This comment deserves 1000 more downvotes. It should become the most hated comment of all time and then enshrined on its own site, as an enduring monument to the consequences of speaking truth to those who don't wish to hear it.

I guess that what has been said for months is now finally being taken seriously by the powers that be.

I can't buy any keys at 4.66 for the past week. Been at least 5 refined and above. This guy sells plenty at 5.11 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10114613#/35992944

This person sold 10 keys in one minute at 5.11 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10453458

Your first one isn't listed as 5.11, but definitely said that he'd be changing his price constantly. That trade cant be used for much proof of anything because of that.

The second trade, there's no proof of him actually selling for that price or someone offering. It could have been closed for any number of reasons - and of course bulk buyers wouldnt represent the market anyway.

Not to mention that 5 ref is in the current range.

Holly Hell man, it hasn't even been a day.. Give it a rest people.

keys need to gow down not up

Holy shit, how is this comment in the positives?

because its true

Still not a valid reason.

I gotta play devil's advocate and agree with Ivor.

While I think keys should go down, they unfortunately aren't. If keys went down right now, it's guaranteed to be artificial and would send the entire mannconomy into shock, which, since this is completely unregulated trade besides scamming and Valve bans, would send the entire mannconomy into a collapse I fear it would either never recover from or have an extremely hard time.

EDIT: If keys went down right now and it weren't an accurate reflection of the current market, it would be a problem.

actually, that may not be true.

The price of keys are mostly determined by what's shown on backpack.tf/tf2finance. Before you all start pelting me with dislikes, you have to remember that not all of us in the market have the 'pshaw, backpack.tf's price is inaccurate' mentality. They just go in, headless, selling for whatever price is written up there with the comfort of it being an 'honest price that everyone agrees on', or something along those lines.

Because if keys were really valued at 5 refined, why weren't there any sellers getting them off at 5 refined last year?

Anyway, keys skyrocketing aren't an accurate reflection of the current market either. They're just being knocked up (consistently too) by a bunch of men with more than a hundred keys. That is artificial too, isn't it?

Therefore, it's more than likely that keys are going up, not because demand for keys are rising, or quantities of keys are diminishing (note: these may be true, but that's not the reason for this) but because of men who are trying their mighty best to knock up the price, every...what, 12 hours or so?

there will be no shock, no destructive force of any sorts that will rock the market if price of keys go down, because the force that is pushing it up is artificial in it's own right.

Suppose we take them out of the equation, and leave the ones really concerned with using unboxing crates (which are the actual purpose of keys, unless you substitute them with money, which we'll leave out for now), then wouldn't the price of keys go down? After all, no one wants to unbox a lousy strange and be left with squat to buy a second key

If anything, pushing it down is the one that will save the economy. as long as it doesn't get reduce to 1 scrap, but that's unlikely.

Side note: Personally, I doubt that it would stop at 7.22 (mann co's price). Arguments like 'the value of refined is a lot lower now' or 'you'd rather pay real cash for these?' would pop up, and some, if not most, would concede to these.

tl:dr (but really, read it. They're more details in there)

1)this whole 'price increasing' fiasco is artificial in its own right.

2)Down-pricing keys will save the economy, not leave it in shambles

3)Backpack.tf/tf2finance no longer records prices (for keys, at least), but influence the prices, which is contrary to it's original purpose.

(Point 3 is irrelevant, but eh. You're arguing based on the assumption that prices go up and down due to demand and supply. But truth is there is some sort of monopoly going on, and this site is being used as an instrument for their needs instead of a device for documentation)

In response to point 2)

It wouldn't save the economy. What's currently going on is rampant inflation, but that encourages spending of ref. If keys started to go down, that's a deflationary cycle, and would be absolutely catastrophic. One of three things would happen:

1) People continue to whine and complain. Most likely.

2) It leads to a deflationary cycle a la Great Depression, and it's another clusterf*ck. Given that Valve hired an economist, and a well known and highly qualified one at that, I'd say this is not likely to happen.

3) Deflation starts due to price manipulation by you, by backpack.tf, whatever. Then, idlers and others step in with increased demand to match the lowering prices. Demand goes up, supply is constant: Prices go back up, moot point. Most likely to happen assuming that you somehow manage to convince people Keys are worth less than others are willing to pay.

They already went down, leave them like that!

im downvoting this

Selling =/= sold, downvote

Why Selling=/= sold?

Lithium is showing proof of willing buyers at 5.11, and the 5.22-5.33 aren't in the new range.

well tf.scrap

buying key 4.77ref now

http://scrap.tf/keys

http://gyazo.com/e6fcff1b288b6ff978dce089a46475c3

Supports range.

Not to be mean or call anyone stupid but the price of keys are just getting to the point of where no one is going to buy key from anyone anymore.Maybe can we lower the keys price back to 2.33-2.55 or 2.44-2.66 that really all I'm asking .also I like the evidence that you are supporting for the price that you want the keys to go up but maybe you can try and help me lower the price of keys too if you can.

>tf2finance

Get out

lol, read the line directly under that

"I wont be responding to comments at all"

I try.....

I'm not supporting anything higher than 5 ref -.-

#savethekeys

You're doing it wrong. You gotta do it with more emphasis. #SAVETEHKEYYYYYYYZ

Hey thats my comment :I and you did it wrong, it's #SAVETEHKEYZZZ

I leave for half a year and suddenly keys went from 2.66 to 5 ref. What in the name of Gaben happened?

Seriously, this shit is getting ridiculous.

Backpack happened

Lots of things happened and a lot of theories out there, but a few confirmed ones stand.

1. Carders (people who would steal credit cards and immediately buy keys from TF2 and sell them via paypal at some ridiculously low price) are being finished off by Valve, cutting a huge amount of the supply into the system.

2. There is almost zero use for refined and it's being farmed every day by the barrel full, making it even more numerous and useless in comparison to keys.

Anything beyond that is a theory, really.

EDIT: I guess you can take the steam market into account since a ton of people (I, myself, am guilty of it as well) buy from there simply because it is cheaper and pretty much always will be cheaper than going to the store and buying it from there. Basically, no new keys are created and they recirculate until they get used.

Well a number of things happened:

#1: Long

#2: Hatch

#3: Dumb mods

#4: Highballing outposters

I'm flattered. I was listed above the "highballing outposters."

well actually those were in no particular order. This is in the order from like to dislike:

1. Long

2. Highballing Outposters

3. Hatch

4. Dumb mods

Well that stuff with the illegal keys happend leading to all of that.

It wasn't a one time incident. Buying keys illegitimately with stolen credit cards has been going on for years. It was only publicized to the extent it was that one time because of that chat screenshot that circulated of Long saying he knowingly dealt with people who bought and sold carded keys. If it had been anyone else it probably would not have mattered to the same extent.

Key Hoarders?

I was thinking:

Why does Backpack.tf consider Tf2outpost trades for proof? 99% of Outpost people are dipshits that buy stuff for 2 ref and sell it for 3 ref. I don't think we should approve Upvotes for Keys over Outpost proof. Some total idiots buy the Keys for 5 refined, so? It's not alright to drag this crap price down on ALL of us. If somebody wants to pay the double price for a Key, let him. But don't go making Votes to increase Keys here over that. If you wouldn't Upvote Key prices, people would slightly start sticking to lower prices again. But you keep upvoting. And the more you upvote, the more those assholes increase.

Can we fuck off with this 4ref+ shit? C'mon, let's make this a game of shooting and some trading, not a bunch of assholes who monopolize the market because they own everything. Backpack.tf has lost is good reputation to me and many others, because of assholes like this Lithium guy. And of course he owns keys. Seriously though. Stop this shit. It's ruining everything.

well said

Just fcking great, Maybe lets make the key price to 1 bud? perhaps that will change us a little bit? 2.66 ref was a FINE price for a key, and i thought 3 ref is already madness, but 5 ref, its just ******. downvote.

Honestly, bp.tf should remove suggesting prices for keys. It's a continuous cycle: list key @2.77 on OP, change bp.tf price for 2.77, sell for 2.88 on OP change price on 2.88 on Bp.tf ETC. Traders pay high for keys, because that's what the backpack.tf price is, and if everyone wants them to go down, just remove price suggesting on keys.

The last accepted suggestion brought key prices down.

Not really an endless cycle, babe.

For the few odd ducks, yes. But the reason the last one got accepted was tbecause the previous key price that did get accepted was a mistake.

holy crap... not even a day and somebody want to increase the fucking price again.

God damnit just for 1 scrap profit again!? Outpost user I guess?

He's not doing for profit dude, don't say those stuff unless you know the person (like me!)

just stop pls stop why do you feel the need to raise the price there all ready high as fuck

I do agree that the range should be extended to 5.11.

Lots of unsolds on bp.tf classifieds

"tf2 finance has been at 4.8-5.1 for the past 3 days."

wut: http://tf2finance.com/keys/. they never went above 5 ref 1 wep

It was passed 5 refined earlier today. But it did go under 5 again.

So, TF2Finance is not proof.

Chigga is right for now until it flies about 5 ref again. xD

now its about 4.88 1 wep

Remember guys; Outpost is the only place where people trade

Can't tell if sarcasm

OBVIOUSLY SARCASM.

Yeah I see newbs still get tricked out of keys for 3 weapons.

Tf2finance shouldn't be considered as a valid form of proof by mods.

Downvote. I didn't read, a key for 5.11, nope

Selling keys for 4.66 ref is fun http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448252 ^_^

no people with unusuals? :( im the one who lowered keys. well actually the other guy was but he literally copied everything from my suggestion

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10460090

Oh look, a reseller. It's scumbags like you who caused this inflation.

in the end of this year , its totally gonna cost 10 ref even thought its $2.49

Its fun to see the economy crash, in a few of months key price will be at 15 ref, just saying:D

NO! GOD! NO GOD PLEASE NO! NO! NO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Sorry... Had to do it... Forgive me, admins.

Let the key price rest for fuck sake, literally a key vote going at all times on this site. Your not telling me the price increases a scrap every fucking 2 days.

geel said to use scrap.tf as proof

1 key====> 2.66-3 refs

Only a few of these links have people that actually sold above 5 ref. The price is too high as it is downvote. It isn't smart to just keep bumping it up and up and up and up just because people keep trying to sell their keys for .11 or .22 more than its worth. Leave the price as it is for now.

I'm shocked its only to 5.11. Let me throw out the net. There are 400+ trades all looking for 5+. I've painfully pruned out the 5.22+. Now I will go through and mark which ones actually have sales. It looks like I'm finding ones that don't get bumped.... don't get sold but who can find them in 400+ listings? I'm not trying to push keys up or down, but this is what I found. >>

#5 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10450993 >> 5 << sold just now

#11 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10460521 >> 5.11 << some sold

#30 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10329854 >> 5.11 << nope

#49 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10455666 >> 5.11 << nope

#51 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10433930 >> 5 << some adds

#68 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10463012 >> 5.11 << nope

#131 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10035818 >> 5 << huh?

#171 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10364709 >> 5.11 << some adds

#183 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10462109 >> 5.11 << 1 hour nope

#191 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10462038 >> 5 << 1 hour 1 add

#249 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419398 >> 5.11 << 1 bookmark?

#253 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10008080 >> 5.00 << 0 stock still has a post

#265 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10355546 >> 5.11 << adds

#266 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10458457 >> 5.16 << 0 adds 8 hours

#287 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386686 >> 5.11 << adds 7 bookmarks?

#288 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10402295 >> 5.11 << 0 stock adds

#290 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10457969 >> 5 << 1 add

#303 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10457391 >> 5.11 << 0 adds 8 hours

#304 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10457311 >> 5.11 << same guy 0 adds 8 hours

#314 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10456951 >> 5.11 << 10 hours 0 adds doesn't bump

#325 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10456675 >> 5 (I'll stop here... these aren't bumped from the looks of the past few. Let's see if they sell out from me posting these here)

#326 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10456674 >> 5

#338 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10114613 >> 5

#339 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10456230 >> 5

#360 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10454997 >> 5

#362 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10452646 >> 5

#373 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10454166 >> 5

#380 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10036959 >> 5.11

#381 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10453181 >> 5

#392 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10452213 >> 5

#397 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10408963 >> 5

Anyone want me to throw out the net again to see how many 5 vs 5.11s I catch? Or is one of these long posts enough?

i liek dis un betr

owns 5 suspicious price manipulator......................hes doing that for hois own gain....... . .

/sarcasm

inb4 downvotes

"6 ref lol

http://puu.sh/2GYA7.png

That should be good enough for now"

Сomplete nonsense. I can do same picture with 8 refs. Or 11 refs. Or all refs I've got.

Yup. I hope naknak and his friend had fun trading their items back.

That was a link that i found on some outpost trade, it's more of a joke because I doubt it was legit.

This is no place for jokes and showing fictitious trades on outpost like this http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400907

unless you made this in order to increase the mass of the post.

and I'm silent about... %%%"Dont call me selfish, im nice http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10400907 see?"%%% This, incidentally, shows who you really are.

Why would I care about the mass of the post? The amount of proof is all that matters. Also it wasnt fictitious. That was a link from the previous suggestions proof that hadn't sold yet, so I tried to get the guy a better deal.

it would be nice if the key prices could stay static for at least a week......

Remember when the price was 5 ref ... for TWO keys ... :'(

I was thinking 4.77 ref each.

........die

thats ilegal u no

we all should vote for the new increased price of key...

Posting some extras... some links could have been posted in original post.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10376155 - 4.88 offer

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10340628 - 5 ref offer, one added 5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448318 - two 5 ref buyers within minutes

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9744610 - one recent 5.33 buyer

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416546 - One buyer 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10081555 - Buys 5 ref, got a seller, selling 5.11 ref, got buyers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448447 - Instant buyer 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448413 - Instant buyer 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10275592 - Buys for 4.88, sells for 5 ref, several adds to buy

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10438422 - Selling for 5.33 each, offer of 5.11 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419398 - Sold out 5.11

also http://puu.sh/2Kahz.png

I think this is on the low side. These is not a large supply of keys on the market.

Lots of proof = upvote.

shouldn't keys be given a higher price in refined when ref goes down in price?

Upvote i have managed to sell several keys at 5,33 and this price range seems even a bit low actually... 5-5,33 should be better but thats just my opinion though

I personally have bought and sold dozens of keys for around 5.11 I would say this needs to be updated.

Hey! Economy goes down into Horseshit! Let's ride it into horseshit more!

My suggestion to you guys. Buy no more keys from traders, either to Straight to Mann Co shop or simply don't buy Keys. It's not gonna kill you not to trade for a while. trust me, it's worth it. If those morons can't sell off their keys, they will start lowering again.

Please, just don't be as stupid as the people on Outpost that actually buy Keys for 5 Ref and relax for a while. Play the game, ignore Keys and just wait for them to decrease the price.

You have to understand there are people who can afford it a friend of mines friend has 200+ alts, sounds far fetched yeah but it's the truth.

bottom line for people like that higher prices are like a slap on the wrist to them my guess is, while this may not be the majority it may be high sum that could be a factor in rising key price.

No. Please don't help destroy the TF2 economy!!!

Well there goes half an hour of my evening...

WHY ARE PEOPLE STUPID ENOUGH TO BUY FOR 5 REF? some one needs to buy a ton of keys and get the price back

The bottom range is wrong. It should be higher than 4.66. I made a trade yesterday and got 5 adds in under a minute, http://i.imgur.com/TLUv3Ec.png and one of them was prepared to pay 5 ref per key in bulk.

People buying for 5 ref

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1deqxy/h_20_ref_w_4_keys/

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1deq4c/h_40_refined_w_tf2_keys/

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1dekr7/h_60_refined_w_12_keys/

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1dej6f/h_15_ref_w_3_keys/

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1ddr8e/h_15_ref_w3keys/

To the person who downvoted this, if you think the low end of 4.66 ref is correct, then simply sell your keys to the people above buying for 5 ref and rebuy keys at 4.66, for a risk free profit of 9 ref.

All things aside, wouldn't that be a profit of only .33? Not sure where 9 came from.

Bought 2 for 5 ref this morning had about 3 adds within an hour, still easy to buy for 5, downvote, we don't need 5.11 in the range. We do however need to bump up the low to at least 4.77

0,44 range? really? looking forward to see if any other key suggestion with range over 0,33 got accpeted.

it's just as pointless as all highball succes suggestions about keys, just dont understand why to spam your notifications bar

People selling at 5ref insta-sell and sellers ar 5.11 just do the same so why not?

Wow, first time a key suggestion has gotten over 1000 upvotes!

I wanna know why someone made a new attempt at inflation WITHIN 3 hours of some other guy raising the price.

If anything, that is selfish. I bet he has alts with 100+ keys or have friends with 500+ keys who asked him to do this.

Don't post something completely untrue, I know him, he just wants backpack to reflect the market better.

The people trying to keep prices down are the REAL manipulators.

I sold my first key today. Put it up on outpost, saying 5.11. Less than 10 views, less than 10 minutes up, someone bought it. People are desperate.

I dont why you are "lol" the 6 ref trade in about a month or 2 buyiing keys at 6 ref will be lowballs

Keys have gone up long enough, I think they are fine where they are

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10451860

I said specificially i will check profile of buyers to make sure they arent resellers

I hardly get any adds.

Only proving the reason keys sell so quickly at any price is because majority of outpost buyers are looking for profit.

Hence there's no reason to raise it because you're just feeding the resellers.

The reason that the people that buy keys are resellers is because keys aren't useful for anything else (except uncrating, but we all know how well those go.)

They are useful for doing larger transactions. If you wanna get a buds, its much better to only use 20 slots than 100. Plus, some bud and max sellers don't have that kind of backpack room.. Keys are also easily transferred into value thanks to the steam marketplace. 1 key gets you roughly $2.30, of which you can buy a game or more tf2 crap.

I agree, keys are just "The Thing" to own right now. So many things are good about keys.

1. They are able to be resold for a profit

2. Steam market makes keys much more versatile than metal

3. Metal can't be used for much, other than crafting (which results in a loss)

4. Metal is falling in value

5. Keys are rising in value

6. Keys are compact storage

7. Easy to convert into metal if you need it (just post a selling for 5 ref trade)

You guys are free to read my post I made over on bazaar.tf

http://bazaar.tf/thread/1585/3

gud, gud, just a few steps closer for my master plan of crashing the tf2 market will be complete

Ok guys if you want key prices to go down like my comment to show support as a petition. If not, then like my comment to show what idiots the people liking are!

The issue isn't that "it's just a scrap."

The issue is that it is the 25th scrap.

TF2 economy has become quite screwed up by key inflation. But personally, I think that making the keys go back to their usual prices are going to screw this community even more. This does not just apply to pure key carriers, but many items like All Father, voodoo juju, kringle, which are listed in key prices are going down, it would affect many advanced key users majorly, profiting only those who use refs as currency (normally the poorer people). Even unusuals, which are listed in buds, WHICH are listed in keys are gonna be affected if keys go back down. I suggest that we just make keys 5 ref, and disable any key suggestion in the future. What do you think, guys, just make keys worth an easy amount of refs and make it simple?

Price manipulation is not welcomed. Also, unusuals are stored in USD.

hey aren't you an admin, and how does saying "I am trying to lower them in backpack.tf" is price manipulation

What, is admins banning facts now?

1.- I am.

2.- Yeah, if you try to lower the price of an item they you are trying to manipulate the price for it to go down.

3.- No, we're not and you're not providing any facts.

so if I make a suggestion lowering a price of an items then that is bad

so every suggestion lowering the price of an item is prohibited?

And the "fact" that I am talking is the fact I am trying to lower prices

that what everyone do when they are suggesting the price of an item to go down

bp.tf should just set the price at 2.33 and we'll see what happens.

That would cause The entire Economy To collapse. I Wish The key prices would go down At least to 4 ref. if it goes down too much the economy will be more screwed up than ever. But if it keeps going Higher it will be even worse. keys Should Either be stopped Where they are right here in their tracks at 5 ref, or go down to bout 4 ref, because this way the economy will stay somewhat stable, and keys would still go down at least a bit. If Key Prices keep infalting imagine where we will be in A week? A Month? 2 Months? It's only going to get worse unless something is done about it.

You can't use TF2 finance as proof, if TF2 finance uses backpack.tf for its pricing...

This ban is really poorly designed. Its so off and on: http://i.imgur.com/Gckxad1.png

Still a proud member of the group: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/savethetf2keys

#savethekeys

Report the bug, then.

Zemnmez never has to report the bug...

That's why Brad keeps getting pissed off at him.

I'm tired of the unrealistic price of keys, I think 2.66 was about the best price keys ever came to but 5 refined is just about the most obscene amount I have ever heard of.

thanks for the free ref man

you are so getting decline

*rep

but then again admins are prone to somewhat un-logical decision

one of them once close down a suggestion that have over 80 proofs supporting it

and this certain admin provide 7 counterproofs

7 against 89

*illogical

Stop spamming.

ok calm down

it's just a game

We're not on tf2.

seriously, keys used to be worth 2.33, why is everyone trying to make the price increase? Me personally, I'm only gonna buy keys at most 3 ref, not these ridiculous prices that people are going for.

Alright, this will be the first key suggestion I touch, I believe.

Users who want to "keep the price down" provide evidence of sellers at 4.66. They sell REALLY quick, but I'll consider them as they actually sell for that.

Some users provided proof of sellers and even BUYERS for 5.11. If 4.66 is considered, then 5.11 should be as well. We all know you can sell keys for 5.11.