Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 4.77–5.11 ref

because people rage if it goes up too fast and one suggestion changes the price by a rec-people get mad at that saying it's price manipulation or some nonsense

Actually it's because there was a suggestion showing many people buying / selling for a lower price, but some people still buying and selling for the higher price. Also many counter-proofs were shown in previous suggestions, But that doesn't even seem to matter anymore.

If I said that, I would get 9001 downvotes

don't flatter yourself

Okay maybe 5000.

You already have that amount.

has bp.tf repaid you enough for giving them 20 dollars yet?

It was a donation. Not a "I'll give you this money if you accept like all of my suggestions."

haha this comment got more downvotes than the actual comment

Because if something is sold for 5.11 it doesn't mean that it can't be sold for 4.66.

mate keys can be sold even for 1 ref, all you need are willing sellers.

He has to show them because he's removing 4.66 from the range. And trust me, if you have patience you can still get keys at 4.66. It's just that every trader has the patience of a hyperactive flea that drank some coffee.

Because he has to show why 4.66 shouldn't be a part of the price range. Also, he only has one sold up there for 5.22 and only one buyer up there for 5.22. Not good enough proof that 4.66 is inaccurate.

looks like my +10 comment was erased by disliking trolls

What are you talking about, his trade has over 100 views. Sure, 70 of them were from me but that doesn't matter.

Look at sitebender's post all unsuccessful buyers @4.66

You once told me >> "you clearly have too much free time"

I forgot "like me"

Anyway.... if someone wants counter proof. Get digging. I'll show you the doors, but you have to turn the key to block this price increase. >>

#17 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10076850 >> 4.66

#55 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10285373 >> 4.66

#85 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10108505 >> 4.66

#120 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10396090 >> 4.66

#158 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9070570 >> 4.66

#171 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10189885 >> 4.66

#175 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10444832 >> 4.66

#184 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10330783 >> 4.66

#204 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10246841 >> 4.66

#210 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10149157 >> 4.66

#212 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465905 >> 4.66

#235 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10398574 >> 4.66

#237 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10167961 >> 4.66

#255 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9706613 >> 4.66

#278 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10482888 >> 4.66

#280 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10169141 >> 4.66

#283 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10278598 >> 4.66

#299 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10039936 >> 4.66

#307 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10414521 >> 4.66

#330 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/4140821 >> 4.66

#332 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10460871 >> 4.66

#344 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10313908 >> 4.66

#381 >> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10352879 >> 4.66

>>> btw if my lists are too tall, I can always do them side by side in columns of 2 if that would be better. Kinda looks weird then.

u hacker reportd

those are all buyer trades without much success huh

so that's additional proof, thanks

I'm clearly not a hacker. I just dump truth on people. There are tons of buyers at 4 ref, plenty at 5 ref, but eh I feel if people want to block your increase they should prove that 4.66 are selling... but since when do quick buys count?

anyway, the "hacker" was sarcastic.

next time I won't post sarcastic comments lel

Yeah tough to see sarcasm in text. That's why I use smiles at the end of jokes :-) It'll be interesting to see if my score rises or falls with the 4.66 thing. I'm still shocked the 4.66 drop even happened. But, whatever :-)

And someone might still dig through the 4.66s and find tons of people saying added.

I don't know if they have much success, but when there are buyers at 5 the 4.66s seem silly. If someone really wants to block this increase they can prove it. It might be in there somewhere.

all unsucceful buyers :) k thanks site

^^^ true. I'm just showing the info. Coincidentally when I logged onto the site there was someone selling a key at 4.66 ref... probably gone now in a flood of requests.

You should title your stuff either sellers, buyers or unsold

Those are buyers

Yes indeed they are. I should label stuff and not write it could be counter proof. Which the only real counterproof would be buyers since very few sell at 4.66.

old and unsuccesful, so what?

Thanks for checking.

supporting the new range.

How the hell are these weird intervals popping up? What are you running in order to sort through outpost like this?

Because they're buys, not sales. Guess I should have <b>boldly stated that.</b>

Nice counterproof, mate

Going to downvote this suggestion due to ignoring successful sellers of 4.66 ref.

READ

those are all unsuccessful BUYERS at 4.66

Whoops, I misread that, I apologize for your inconvenience...

Yeah I guess I should have said that. My bad.

Those are all unsuccessful buyers making that more proof for the suggested range

dudeeeee remove it =____=

That's what he is trying to show, it's called counter-proof man

Um what? you need to actually look at the links :S

Buyers trying to buy keys for 4.66 ref and unsuccessful is counter proof? :L

meaning that they have a trade up on op going "buying keys for 4.66" and failing, providing more proof that 4.66 refs can't get you a key

Thats actually more proof that the suggested increase is correct...

What? Just no... He is showing that 4.66 is inaccurate which he does. Buyers are unsuccessful at 4.66 but buyers ARE successful at 4.77. That shows that keys don't sell for 4.66 therefore that should be taken out of the range. Do you even know what counterproof is?

Was I showing counter proof? Was I showing there is no counter proof? I'm not the one to dig through all of those links.

counter proof = links showing that the currently suggested price is incorrect

proof = links showing that the suggested price is correct

links showing that they cant be bought at 4.66 is additional proof that the suggested of 4.77-5.11 is correct

Hope i helped!

Yeah thats what I've been saying this whole time. You were telling him to take his post down because he is making the suggestion seem correct which it is. Also, let me correct myself, I feel quite dumb I meant to be saying proof the whole time not counterproof. I was thinking it "disproves" 4.66 so I just said counterproof. I'm genuinely sorry about that. But why were you telling him to take his post down because it provides additional proof for 4.77-5.11? Because now it seems as if you are supporting it.

1 its too late 2 people see it how they want to see it. Is it proof or counter proof? A few days ago someone managed to successfully prove keys should be 4.66 at the bottom end.

u forgot

http://scrap.tf/keys

it is under 4.77 buyers

Ummm....Your outpost trade said buying keys @ 4.66 is easy...

it isn't

mattje (1 day ago)

buying keys for 4.66 ref each

because it's easy

it isn't

do I have to say that again?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465905 Cough Cough....

areyou blind

Nope.......

he's showing that it's not easy to buy at 4.66....if you haven't noticed that yet

So because one guy posted a trade buying keys for 5.22 (fyi has no metal) while the rest on outpost buying at 5 ref, you think this deems good proof for a rise up to 5.11? Get outta here. Key suggestions like these are what make me upset, aside from the fact that it's actually a key suggestion.

Are you rly trying to post a suggestion on keys? You think because you donate 20$ to backpack.tf u think there going to do whatever you want? Let me slap you now and help you wake up in the real world. You also deserve that for being such a narcissistic ass to everyone whose tried to communicate with you.

Pretty solid.

Upvote until proven wrong.

Go ahead, neg me.

But do it for a reason, and provide counterproof please.

Here are my trades:

I buy for 4.44 and sell these keys for 4.55.

[url]http://bazaar.tf/trade/205926[/url]

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10484631[/url]

I bet you bought a lot of keys

Sold: 1

Everybody fking overprices ! Not fair !!!!!!!!!

define overpriced

seriously why someone should dislike my comment

Because anyone associated with this site is automatically hated, any mod/admin here is hated, any person who donated to this site is hated by default. It's really apparent

OMG I WANT LE KEYS TO GO DOWN SO IM DOWNVOTING!!11!11111111!!!!! LE LOGIC!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

sir, i think you need to clam down

Nobody sells for 4.66. The range should be 4.88 to 5.11.

Not true. These were taken from CoRSP's keys suggestion:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324688 10 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322798 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322198 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322266 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10320083 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319571 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319211 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10313102 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10312606 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10310577 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10309034 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10308055 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306659 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306426 4.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10307479 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305824 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305503 8 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305433 @ 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305430 2 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305400 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303669 @ 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303348 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10302421 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10367053 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10366854 20 @4 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10365810 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10350128 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10350102 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10348636 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10348191 4.66

now time for some from long218:

http://puu.sh/2H7Hb.png 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10342993 4.77

http://puu.sh/2H7I1.png 4.33

http://puu.sh/2H7KL.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)

and these are from 2-4 days ago when I was on the hunt for keys

http://puu.sh/2FYd8.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYe8.png 4.77

http://puu.sh/2FYeU.png 4.77

http://puu.sh/2FYgo.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYh2.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYi0.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYim.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYiE.png 4.66

and don't forget

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324985 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10324688 10 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322798 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322198 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10322266 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10320083 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319571 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319211 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10313102 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10312606 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10310577 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10309034 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10308055 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306659 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306426 4.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10307479 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305824 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305503 8 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305433 @ 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305430 2 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305400 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303669 @ 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303348 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10302421 4.66

...and some more from another user:

http://puu.sh/2H7Hb.png 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10342993 4.77

http://puu.sh/2H7I1.png 4.33

http://puu.sh/2H7KL.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2H7M6.png hood+2.66(4.33-4.66)

http://puu.sh/2FYd8.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYe8.png 4.77

http://puu.sh/2FYeU.png 4.77

http://puu.sh/2FYgo.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYh2.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYi0.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYim.png 4.66

http://puu.sh/2FYiE.png 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8087505 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10320083 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10205171 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319571 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319211 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10313102 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10312606 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10310577 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10309034 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10308055 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306659 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306426 4.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10307479 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305824 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305503 8 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305433 @ 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305430 2 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10305400 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303669 @ 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303348 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10303039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10302421 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10386668 4.77 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10396504 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395774 6 keys 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10395184 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394085 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10393697 4.77

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198011302297 selling 2 for 4.66

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198044400039 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375490 selling for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10224409 bought one for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10332320 sold for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10283418 bought one for 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607 bought a ton for 4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10149331 last week, bought 5 4.66 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10375742 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10374931 (4.22)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10372955 (4.66)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10371991 (4.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369389 (4)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9538806 bought 31 at 4.66 ref, maybe I'm gullible or not lol

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382850 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10022934 4.88

EDIT: Yes, this is proof that is being used from another person's suggestion, but it IS valid, as most are less than 1 week old, and I do not claim, nor do I attempt to claim to have searched for these myself. All credit goes to CoRSPIUnderscore

so posting the same (outdated) links on every suggestion will prove something

Mind you, even as of today, most of these links are less than 1 week old, making them useable proofs.

But then again, there are people, who for protective reasons shall remain anonymous, who manipulate the key prices by posting keys suggestions of highballers who have sold above the current range. These count as proof, which in turn, causes a rise in average price, which in turn causes people to sell high just to break even, and the cycle continues.

EDIT: And, yes. For the time being, these WILL prove something.

if you even look at what you're posting, you will see:

1 week old trades

duplicated/triplicated/quadriplicated links

"bought a lot" >for different prices (those buyer trades are months old)

Which ones? I looked through them, and yes there may be SOME duplicates, but I don't see a single one that is months old.

The oldest one I could find was this one:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8087505

And it gets constantly updated to the price range.

referring to the "bought a ton" thing

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8424607

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9538806

Those... yes, those are old, and not updated, but for the most part, I still don't see any reason these proofs are useless/pointless/invalid.

Cool that's what people were selling for a week ago

well, he stole those links from me...

Apologies, I was not informed.

Manipulating price 8)

I've looked on OP, on the classifieds of backpack.tf, keybots, trade servers, tf2wh etc etc and I can't find buyers for less than 5 ref. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough but 5 ref seems to be the right price for keys right now.

I don't care about you people with your "manipulating price hurhur" bullshit. I'm speaking from experience. Hell, if you can find me buyers for 4.66. I'll give you a rec per key that I buy.

he was actually joking

Oh okay...

Your raging and downvoting is useless, these are accepted anyways.

these are accepted if there is enough proof to prove the change of the price

And you do have enough proof.

Yes, I agree. Proof is the only thing mods look at. Votes are ignored on key suggestions, and rightfully so-- there are too many whiny, butthurt children who want the price of keys to go down.

Nicer to know that these key sellers are incapable of going 1 day without a key vote.Also, unless you have been hiding under a rock lately, people are actually questioning the accuracy of TF2Finance, since so few keys are being bought with metal that the site is easily manipulated into reporting higher prices..

do you have any based argument or you will write another useless wall of text about key prices?

Yeah, I have something to base it off of:

http://www.tf2wh.com/item.php?id=5021;6;2007c65ba3d3acb661e57ee5550676fc

This is the TF2WH link for keys, and note that they are actually OVERSTOCKED on keys, at a limit of 10,000 During the past month, the site reset it's inventory amount from 1000, to 2000, to 3000, 4000, 5000, 7500, 8000, and finally 10000. the stock limits were reset each time because the keys hit the overstock limit. Since they recently reset prices to reflect the current market, the keys have been put into the system at a noticeably high amount, where now it rests at overstock.

TF2WH is more reliable because you can liquidate items for keys, like stranges, genuines and hats, and avoid the SELL YOUR ITEMS FIRST FOR METAL AND COME BACK TO ME nonsense. You basically skip the middleman and get keys quicker than what you see on Outpost.

The reason why I downvote this suggestion is that the high amount of keys that went into the Warehouse indicates a lot of people cashing out on keys so they can get higher value items, like the Salvaged Stranges, Festive Stranges, Bills, Buds, B.M.O.C.s, Ebenezers, and Unusuals. Not surprising, since now trading for keys on Outpost is a royal pain in the ass. And since the amount of keys in warehouse is close to or at perpetual overstock, it implies the market is unstable, something that people arguing for lower prices have been trying to imply for months.

Look at this:

http://tf2wh-charts.chrishowie.com/summary/5021/6/

The first chart documents buying prices for the past month, and the second chart (the important one) documents the overstock limit for the past day. Note that there are only two instances on that graph where it shows that keys went BELOW overstock.

Also keep in mind that metal has been constantly overstocked there too. If it wasn't, I'd be using metal to get credits and buying keys with them.

Metal has almost always been overstocked, even last year

I don't understand why people like you are so focused on what TF2Finance says. Even if it's used as proof, it's not the ONLY proof. It's like you've selective vision. Go to a trade server, go on TF2OP or TF2WH, go to scrap.tf and buy some keys. Just look at their prices. Nobody is selling for 4.66 or 4.77. TF2Finance seems accurate enough to me but if you don't trust it then open your eyes and look around.

It is pretty much the go to link to justify price increases, and if you were paying attention yesterday, traders are questioning the validity of the site, because so few keys are being sold for metal, and vice versa, on Outpost, that the information on that site can easily be manipulated to reflect higher prices.

This price should go down. 4.55-4.88

So many key suggestions were quickly closed last night. Lets see where this one goes.

i hope the weekly review kicks in soon - i think some people here are shortening their lives on either side of the whole key price argument.

When 1 is accepted, the rest are auto-closed. Happens with all items.

I'm talking about the ones that popped up after the last one was accepted, not the ones that were running at the same time as the last approved suggestion.

Hello everyone who like to cry about how unreliable tf2finance is and how we manipulate the market.

Here if your chance to do something about it. What? Help Base64 verify the trades to avoid manipulation!

What is that? You're to lazy to do anything and only want to cry about it? Oh, I get it.

If you're not and actually want to do something, here's the link: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/994-need-help-for-verifying-tf2finance-trades/

9 hours have passed and not a single user has posted. I think you don't actually care about it, right?

https://mlkshk.com/r/IJDU

nah, people just love to bitch

TF2 Finance is unreliable because they have not disclosed their methodology.

round 2

Buyers

5.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10483197

5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10444550

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10253054

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10475776

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10390435

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10396271

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10486705

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10429156

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10433138

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10256669

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10467915

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10486006

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10437387

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10411009

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10485135

4.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10345904

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10373341

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10341568

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10437744

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10457066

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10354753

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10483134

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10443832

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10390749

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9176672

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10329221

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6819443

4.77 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10440277

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10319024

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10422892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10340325

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10451486

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10408711

Sellers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10487700 5.11 ref - sold http://puu.sh/2KSoL.png

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10487992 5.00 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10487346 4.88 ref - sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10486548 offer of 46 ref for 9 (5.11 ref each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10467080 offer of 10 ref for 2 (5.00 ref each)

Shouldn't you put more trades up of unsuccessful 4.66 Refined buyer and sellers, and prove that either is not possible? Not to be a dick, but you have posted a ton of links of people buying in your suggested range, but none within the current range.

Not really. If people are unsuccessful at 4.77 as he showed, what do you think about 4.66?

Look at site bender's link, his are all buyers at 4.66 unsuccessful lolol

Question out of curiosity,Why is there always a key suggestion?

Because everyone has an opinion they think is right =] + you know.. rep.. and stuff

bought a key for 4.66 http://gyazo.com/4d9074eef341b1119f7e9bfc1a419488

#yolo #swag

put in date.

http://gyazo.com/39b5ee80821351b60a7304b49ad7fd92

here you go

I don't even vote on key suggestions anymore... I just come to see everyone yell at each other ._.

Enjoy the show. :>)

I'll try http://i.imgur.com/gqvWp.png

Hey, i've got some popcorn so we can eat while enjoying the show.

I like how this website works.

-Put in "proof" from high-ballers, counts as evidence.

-People put "counter-proof" which gets denied anyway.

-Put "evidence" which shows a quickly done trade, as "people instantly buy for this price"

-"counter-proof" shows quick trade, gets labelled as "not real proof"

-put in "evidence" for long going trade with a few sales, shows people will buy for this price, just have to wait.

-put in "counter-proof" for a long going trade with a few sales, people will say it's "outdated"

This website really makes me laugh sometimes. It's seems rather biased to those who want them to go up, and they just completely shoot-down those who have provided real counter-proof.

Even if you want to say I'm wrong, you know I'm more or less right. Now let me wait for your silly comments and down-votes to follow... I like being morally right.

This is mainly why I've put this trade on outpost :b

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10301706

These has not been counter proof show yet. Site bender has buyers which are unsuccessful adding proof for this suggestion...

open a trade selling keys for 4.66 or 5 lower and count how many people add you in 2 mins should get your answer about quick buyers...

My point is, is that counter-proof doesn't even matter. I've been watching these suggestions for a while, and this is what I have seen from the past few weeks.

Also if the way key suggestions worked was applied to all items, they would all be going up. The suggestions just show high-ballers who got a very small amount of sales. Most of the traders who sold more keys aren't shown, because they're selling at a lower price, and had to remove / delete their trade, so no-one can find it.

Thats because most of the counterproof for the keys were instabuy, i have been following too lol

Open up a trade selling keys for 4.66 or lower that 5 in general and count how many adds you get in just 2 min believe you'll get your answer there. (i got about 10+ people instantly adding me and this was 2 days ago)

Other things dont change as refine has been dropping for a while reason being that Keys are always 2.5$ from store and the only way to get them, a lot of players and idlers causing a massive flow of metal into the economy. So you have a crap load of metal while keys are still same value(in real life money) so metal goes down.

Metal is free you play you get metal while keys cost 2.5$ from the store.

Hope i cleared up some loose ends

Metal isn't going down though. There's always going to be people getting a constant flow of metal, or even a real life currency by doing next-to-nothing. There's an infinite number of both metal and keys. Yes there will always be more metal than keys, but that's just up to how many people buy.

Keys are only going up because people are making them. Nothing else. People will try to get more than the current suggested price. It's been that way since backpack.tf started. Many hats are sold for 1.11/1.22 ref, yet you don't see many / any hats going down, do you?

Don't even try going into unusuals then. There people reject sales that are made for low prices because "quicksell does not count", it's like saying "the market price is what I think is fair, despite the facts to the contrary"

I'm just waiting to see when will people be unable to afford keys.

The rising key price also made me reluctant to unbox. In the past, when keys are 2.66, if I unbox a craft hat that would be a 1.33 lost, which is somewhat manageble. Now? If I unbox a craft hat that's a 3.66 lost. Harder to make up. I rarely unbox now, for I know that it's not worth the risk anymore unless it's a low series crate. See, if I unbox 10 crate 56/57s, and get 10 craft hats, in the past that would be 4-5 keys, which accounts to a 5-6 key lost, or around 13 ref lost. Now? That would be roughly 2-3 keys, which accounts to a 7-8 key lost, which is around 37 ref lost. That gap to make up is what scares me, and that is also why I rarely unbox now. I want an unusual too, but the risk is much greater than before due to the gap I might create before and after unboxing.

I'd hate to see my BP value in terms of refined to drop, but I know every time I check my BP and there's a random increase in my BP value, I know key prices have risen again. My BP value is dropping in terms of keys, yet rising in terms of refined.

I have to leave TF2 for a few weeks for work anyways. Hopefully there would be some miracle that reduces key prices.

Unboxing is a rip-off in any case, unless youre looking for an unusual

My brother and I both think people are not buying keys at these prices for unboxing as much as they are buying them to convert their metal into a currency that will inevitably rise in price. 2 weeks ago, you could buy a key at 4.77 (which was closer to the high end at that point) and now you could sell those same keys for a decent profit in metal or wait even longer for greater price increases. I honestly to not care that key prices are rising: it makes trading much easier to manipulate to gain profit.

Why do people use tf2outpost as proof. Just because a post is closed does not mean the item actually sold.... All you have to do is click close trade. And you guys are using that as proof????? ^^

Looks to me like there is a conspiracy going on with keys. I am seeing every day that the prices are rising for no apparent reason other than apparent closed trades and apparent buyers. I mean why would someone post to buy a key at 5.1. WHen they can search and buy a key for 4.6 The logic is corrupted and manipulateable, and people are buying them to force the key price on stats... Nice work to the sharks out there.

I'd say 1 out of 50 sellers, actually sell for 4.66. Why would anyone pay more? because you have to be VERY lucky to buy one for 4.66.

Is that too hard to understand? Or do you think Bush has something to do with this?

Actually, it IS that hard to understand. With the approval of this vote, you will have to be lucky to find a key for 4.77... then 4.88... then 5... then 5.11... then 5.22.... then 5.33...

It's not that hard to understand why there are those that will downvote this...

you are already lucky if you find a key for under 5 ref...

Sorry shoe but that is just not true. Jump on a trade server and you can be "lucky" all night long. Its only outpost where < 5 ref is getting rarer

If I open TF2 it's to play. I always see that trade server argument but never see a screenshot. I also see people claiming they can't find anything below 4.88 on servers.

With respect shoe, you see alot through other peoples' eyes and making an opinion on price as you just did seems rather obstinate. Might I be bold enough to encourage you to go onto a trade server one night and see for yourself instead of relying on these second hand sources for your personal opinion?

I think trade servers are a waste of time, to be honest. To convince me I'm not going to waste my time, first I want people to show me via screenshots, at least, several occasions where people sell keys for 4.66. I'm pretty sure I'm going to waste 2-3 hours of my life and only be able to buy 2 keys.

http://imageshack.us/g/18/4771v.jpg/

Took me 30 minutes, 6 server hops, spending around 4-5 minutes a server.

Seller was willing to sell multiple but since this was to convince you, I just took the single key for 4.77, inline with scrap.tf price.

Now that Ive wasted 30 minutes of my own time for your indulgence, perphaps

you would concider wasting your own, for the sake of seeing for yourself.

Is it time to give up yet?

Well, since Long218 gave up, cashed out and retired, I'd have to say that now would be an appropriate time to give up.

downvote because im cool guy

Proof seems pretty legit, upvote. 4.66 is an outdated price.

Upboat

last suggestion: Accepted about 20 hours ago.

Score:-871

O_O why are these suggestions appearing so fast, let the price settle for some time.

Then how will all the rich people make a profit?

Please explain how do people profit from the drop on price of refined metal.

Please explain how refined metal has not dropped in value since two months ago.

They don't. They profit from the forceful inflation of keys. Refined may be dropping, but it always did. Idling existed since the item drop system. People say that Upgrade to Premium caused a huge influx of idle accounts. Actually not so much. It was a slight bump. You could also just get an idle account by buying a $0.50 item without funds, and adding the exact funds on checkout.

Guess when keys started rising? Late 2012. When BACKPACK.TF became popular, when the STEAM MARKET popped up, and SCRAP.TF, and when OUTPOST got really popular. See? People have been using the Upgrade which was released then too as an excuse. Really, the current price raise is not even because of the drop of refined. the prices suggested here are purely based on proof that has nothing to do with the drop of refined. Really, the vicious cycle. Base64 said that it was incorrect because of nobody buying at higher prices when you can get for lower. There are just too many people not looking through 20 pages of trades, taking a higher price because of that.

Backpack.tf is at the point where it almost dictates the price. In the early days, the market sold for prices, backpack reported it and newcomers who didn't know the price could be guided by backpack. Now everyone exactly uses the backpack price, or the backpack price + a scrap. And it is more like: "Oh, that item went up two scrap on backpack? I'll need to raise my price." And if you want to say that then there would be no range, wrong. Sometimes people sell for lower just to get rid of stuff quickly, and sometimes people buy for higher just to get stuff quickly. And I'm not talking about extreme highball/lowball, I'm talking about 1-2 scrap on an item worth several refined. It may not seem like much, but it makes a large amount of difference in the customers you get.

You're forgetting around last year premium upgrade came into play making idlers much more efficient (dun need credit card to trade)

Keys are always 2.5$ from store and the only way to get them, a crap load of players and idlers causing a massive flow of metal into the economy. So you have a crap load of metal while keys are still same value so metal goes down.

Make a suggestion for keys at 2.66 refs with no proof and you'll get massive upvotes, truth is everyone is biased

You're lying to yourself if you think people are honest...

Before i post my mass counter, just as a friendly reminder, if you want to get rid of part of a range, then you have to show its IMPOSSIBLE to buy at that. Also, it does not matter how quickly an item sells, but how many.

In the past 2 days:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493969 3 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493165 2 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10492345 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10489792 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10488576 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10485942 many at 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10482459 2 @ 4.66

http://bazaar.tf/trade/205795 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10478481 4 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10477551 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10473379 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10472519 4 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10469995 4.33

http://bazaar.tf/trade/205068 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465796 4 @ 4.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465563 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10464951 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10463930 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10462692 4.66

>Mods accept previous key suggestion w/ 871 DOWNVOTES

What's the point of even voting.

To make ourselves feel important. Doesn't work. xD

hey shoe want to tell us the answer to this question?

really? again? I'll make it short because the wall of text as been posted A LOT of times already. Voting is there to help us admins approve a suggestion. It also gives users contribution points if you're accurate when voting. In the utopic case that every user votes according to proof provided from the market, then e wouldn't need admins. However, mainly on key suggestions, people vote for the price they want and not for the actual price. Then, when people downvote an accurate price because "they don't want it", they get -rep.

I know, "why is it called voting then", because it had that name when most people would vote according to proof and so admins had an easier job.

so when an admin makes a horrible suggestion pass (cough cough clever and pudding) with nearly 70-80% of downvotes our votes don't matter? on issues such as keys/buds, admins/blue star bp.tf people like hugh and long should vote on the issue, and not give all the power to a single admin who might screw everything up

Votes always matter unless, like on key suggestions, they are submitted for a price people *want* and no the actual price.

I agree with your idea that all admins and, perhaps top contributors, should vote on whether or not a key suggestion will pass. I think it has been mentioned recently on the admin forums.

By the way, your "horrible" suggestions are accurate suggestions in my eyes. All the key sellers for 4.66 were instantly bought, which means they were being sold below market price as quicksells. This is a guide, if we tell people they can buy keys for 4.66 and they try, they will try for 5 days with no luck. What happens then? The guide is wrong.

It doesn't matter how quickly an item sells, it is the quantity being sold.

Yeah, the quantity being sold for 4.66 is really low, and they sell really fast.

past day:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493969 3 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493165 2 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10492345 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10489792 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10488576 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10485942 many at 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10482459 2 @ 4.66

http://bazaar.tf/trade/205795 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10478481 4 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10477551 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10473379 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10472519 4 @ 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10469995 4.33

http://bazaar.tf/trade/205068 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465796 4 @ 4.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465563 2 @ 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10464951 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10463930 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10462692 4.66

I take a break to focus on school and I come back to an inflation of 2 refined? Damn!

The constant value increase in keys is an inside job from Valve to sell more keys while devaluing any value left in metals.

GAME OVER

I am a valve employee and I can confirm this.

Lol it is, they have done everything they can to make keys worth more so more people will buy them. They cracked down on carders, they made premium upgraders so that you can make premium accounts without a credit card, they made a place to sell items, (but not metal or anything craftable), and they made it so the hats you buy from the store are craftable making it less likely someone will try and craft that hat. Valve caused this and only valve can stop this (though they wont)

Keys should Just be set in money, like unusuals

You do realize that there are highballers everywhere, right? The moment the price goes up, the highballers raise their prices, idiots buy them at higher prices, then "proof" is made to raise the price. I'm just waiting for the tf2 economy to collapse, or keys to be up to 6 ref by next week, whichever comes first.

XD < I have travelled back in time from not so distant future to tell you a key is worth 100 refined metals.

The reason why the last key price was accepted is because of a simple economics rule: Buy low, Sell high. The "Buy Low" range is 4.66 and the "Sell High" range is 5.11. The best example I can give you is scrap.tf where they are buying keys for 4.77 and selling for 5.11. Not strictly following the economics rule, but close enough (It used to be 4.66, not anymore). There are plenty of OP traders that follow the economics rule and countless trade servers that says "Buying keys for 4.66 and Selling keys for 5.11!" My 2 cents.

Sidenote: Backpack.tf wth. You should make a price change restriction to once a week. None of this would've happened if you limited it to propose price change once a week...

Refine has been dropping for a while reason being that Keys are always 2.5$ from store and the only way to get them, a crap load of players and idlers causing a massive flow of metal into the economy. So you have a crap load of metal while keys are still same value so metal goes down.

Metal is free you play you get metal and idlers use sandbox (ie easy 25 ref/week) while keys is 2.5$

Guess what? Not everyone in the community is a hard-core idler.

Go to fuck all....every day is price higher and higher...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10460911

Ive found some people who are selling keys for 4.66, just wanted to show u guys, all sold out 1 min after trade was posted

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10489792

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10491916

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10491982

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10492345

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10495261

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493969

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493165

stop using TF2 Finance as prof, they WANT keys to go up.

Then look at the other proof, ie the crap load of buyers at 5refs. Enuf said

Any evidence of that? Or are you just making stuff up to try and force a conspiracy theory?

prove that they want keys to go up; they are just tracking sales.

Log on to Backpack, see new key price, notice the OP has 45 ... This site has no credibility left.

Credibility comes from the proof he posts (buyers at 5 refs...etc) not from what is in your bp.

If anything you would be more familiar with the items you have and when a decrease or increase in price is in order you do it :)

hope i helped

lel

Lol because the number of keys determines the validity or your proof. Wow.

one time the key price was accepted with the guy owning 1000 8)

Keys are too expensive. You are idiot.

yes it's my fault, sorry for that

Selling keys for 4.66 ref is fun actually http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448252 :D

If you haven't noticed, Valve owns backpack.tf.

Your Life < Valve's ($_$)

I HAVE AN IDEA, LETS PROPOSE 10 REF ! C'MON ADMIN. YOU CAN DO IT! LETS DISTORY THE POOR TRADERS!!! BURN EM' DOWN. 10 REFS FOR AN 1 KEY ITS A REALLY GOOD PRICE!1

do it

Two things TF2 nerf will argue over to death - key prices on backpack.tf and is the Degreaser set a crutch (yes it is)

How did the last one get through?!?! It had -871 votes and was still accepted

it was correct.

http://nooooooooooooooo.com/ i want keys for 2.55 ref :(

don't we all? there's nothing preventing from buying at higher prices is there.

I've been on trade servers a lot this week. Haven't seen a single soul selling for less then 5 ref a key. Why is 4.77 or 4.88 even in the range? It must be a very small amount of keys that get traded for less then 5 ref.

THIS!

The ideal price right now should just be 5 ref. If there had to be a range, I'd say 4.88 - 5.11. Backpack.tf has a fairytale price right now and it's lagging behind the actual real world price, that's why there are always suggestions.

What backpack.tf should do is just stop pricing on keys and avoid all this hassle

Opened this: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10501025 trade 5 minutes ago. (selling for 5 ref) Had 22 adds and sold 23 keys within 5 mins.

What about NO!

Fuck that shit

thanks for the comment

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10417089

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10484669

I have sold 2 keys successfully for 5.22 ref.

Check the item history

You really should go and play tf2. Or clean windows. Because key thing is getting boring.

why are you here then?

You have an incredible amount of proof. If only I could up-vote you twice.

I am wondering where the keys are going. 10 ref? There are trades for 10 ref. Why the fuck. Do you keep raising them? Can't you people see this is a vicious cycle???

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10505195 - 4.66, my trade

Not really gonna use this as proof, but I surprisingly didnt get a shitton of adds or comments in the first two minutes.

EDIT: took 5 minutes.

POST HERE BEFORE YOU ADD ME.

4.66, just one for sale.

Im gonna check if you're a reseller, so dont add me if you plan on selling it for more metal.

just remember, this WON'T scare people off

As I said, I don't consider it proof. Im just writing that because:

1. I hate key resellers more than anything else in TF2 trading

2. I wanna know which people to decline when I already sold it.

#RESELLER4LYFE

If you open a trade even with 1 key : 5.11 you get 10 ads.

Arguing and fighting and defending your opinion on why keys shouldn't be so high is irrelevant when it comes down to how much keys are actually trading for. As I've said I've been on trade servers all week, and keys regularily trade hands for 5 refined flat, and often times, extra. Like 5.11 or even 5.22. Not once out of the hundred or so trades I witnessed did I see people selling for 4.66 or 4.77 or 4.88. I was on RAWR US/EU 1-3, PPM, MCT, and Darkly trade servers. And for those of you saying 'but not all keys are traded while in game', yeah that's true. There's TF2OP for that. And no one sells for less then 5 on there.

Gven the sheer number of buyer trades available at 4.77 and above, 4.66 doesn't need to be in range. Trades of people selling for lower are irrelevent quicksells, as they could have gotten more by searching the buyer trades. Accepting.

If this was any other item on the site, placing low range below the highest regularly available buyer trade would spark outrage for underpricing. Food for thought.

Could we stop being greedy here? How about we lower keys to reasonable prices, and not try to horde all of the profit for ourselves?