Suggestion: Gift Wrap at 0.9–1 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10195475 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10559358 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10568831 All three are the same person; they were selling for a key, relisted for 4.77, and relisted for key - 1 scrap all in the space of one day. Seems to have had some success at all three price points

http://bazaar.tf/trade/191336 Selling for key or 4.66, successful at both pricepoints

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10520433 Successful selling for key minus .44

Numerous in classifieds for .9-.98 keys. Steam market averages match this conversion (wrap is 2.12, keys are 2.47, .9 keys are 2.187 SW$)

0.9 keys? Seriously? If you want to create a suggestion less than key, create it in Ref

I did that the first time, Sir Jon disagreed with me

Then why Mr.bucket accepted long's suggestion

Because having 9 mods constantly, consistently creates counter-intuitive communications and conduct that is not conducive to accepting simple solutions

Then why not have all 9 mods vote?

for really controversial stuff, we do all vote

First Off, 0.9-1 Key that's like putting .99 ref when you are looking for 1 ref. <-- I know its different but My points is the Analogy, the Price is good keep it that way.

Proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10568831

http://bazaar.tf/trade/191336 (Here 3 People Said, Added and Will Pay in Metal)

Your goal, as it should be, is to create a create a suggestion that better informs the buyer of the true value of this item. But your range does not jive with that. A buyer will look at the site and see 0.9 keys and be like what the hell is that?

(1) 0.8 was based on quickbuyers are shouldn't have been in the range.

(2) The rejected suggestion in ref was a while ago. If you truly only care about making a suggestion to better inform people, I would resuggest in refined. Things have changed since that was rejected.

What I was going to say.

First of all, if you average those out, that's 0.95 keys... why can't we just leave it at one?

And most of the buying under a key is a quickbuy, so...

i'm not sure of this range, people are still willing to buy at 1 key, and usually they are quickbuyers who resell at 1 key, sellers are usually quicksells

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10496873 no gift wrap in backpack

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10306585 bought one 5 days ago, no further interest in his trade

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9042161 adds were 1 month ago, keys were around 4-4.33 in that period (wow now they are 4.77-5.11)

gift wraps he has now are from selling unusual hard counter to this guy: http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/55523

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10193103 2 people sold them, he resells for 1 key, quickselling people

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465485 bought nothing yet

http://bazaar.tf/trade/191336 selling for 1 KEY or 4.66 refined, wants to avoid metal!, 2 adds to buy in keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10520433 most bought and are being resold at 1 key

Classifieds:

1 for 0.94 keys

2 for 4.66 ref, that makes it 3/40

Everyone wants one key but the market is so flooded with sellers that getting 1 key takes a long time. It's certainly doable, which is why it's still in the range.

but most sellers who sell under 1 key, seem like quicksellers, and quicksellers shouldn't be included in the prices, right? and there are few of them out of the countless pages selling for 1 key, you will find almost nobody willing to sell below,

i found some traders adding one scrap with their key

but wait! what if they bought their keys for 4.77 ref, and resell the gift wrap for 5.11 ref(or 1 key) resell the key for 5.11, buy new ones for lower price, it seems like a good deal to buy for their price, but actually they are making profit like this

The fact they have so much stock shows the proposed range is fine then

why?

Because if they're adding a scrap for a key it implies they bought them for less than that and are making a profit.

it doesn't imply that they bought it for less, they could have bought it for the low end of keys and sell the keys for above the high end

You could apply the same logic to Bill's hat as well, since so many sit unsold at 8 and people do pay lower prices. Yet it's pretty much universally agreed upon that the current price is fine and anything that includes lower prices in the range is denied, even if it has 8 keys still. Lowering the price by 1 rec + 1 scrap + 1 weapon seems a little unneeded.

The fact that its flooded but there are still tons of buyers at 1 key means that anything lower are people who are too impatient to wait for someone to notice their trade, or in other words, a quicksell. We really do need a firm quicksell definition for this site to use.

lol...anything under a key is a quicksell

Buyers at a key:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10588987

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10584138

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10580330

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10574004

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10570479

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10567052

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10561451

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10557696

1 key is so easy.

All of those buyers have bought one already; 1 key buyers get snatched up immediately. Show me an available buyer at 1 key

Just because something sells fast doesn't mean it should drop in value. Anything under a key is a quicksell, and your successfully buying at 4.66 is still over 0.1 keys.

I wish anything under a key was a quicksell--I still have wrap sitting in my pack at 4.77

ill buy it for 4.66

Mate, very few traders need a wrap everyday. Casual traders buys now and then therefore it takes time to sell them.

You can't expect everyone to wrap every item before its being traded.

Try to be patient and next time think before buying 10 of the gift wraps if you are not going to use them. IF you chose to flip them then stick with it.

very few, yes, but its a common item that will always stay at a key.

Cleverpun is buying for 4 ref each [ http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10580072 ] and apparently looking at his trades 4.77 went very fast [ http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10568889 ]. He ended up closing his trade the same day. So I am sure admins would agree that it can be deemed as quicksell.

Actually I closed it because I had all my trades filled and I needed the slot for something else

I usually buy for a key but I don't buy every day.

....0.9 keys? Why didn't you just suggest in ref? This is only a 1.05% decrease it's pointless. Everyone will still sell it for 1 key.

Not that it's used as proof, but the WH sells gift wrap for about 2k less than keys right now.

Also, the classified listings right now have enough sellers below key prices that I feel justified in upvoting this.

No need to be homophobic.

This is just a back and forth.

Because i bought TONS and TONS of craft hats for 1.22

Lets make all craft hats 1.22-1.33

May I ask what a "semi-successful" buying is?

Means they had at least 1 trade, but I couldn't verify the exact number.

That feel when you close the tab and lose all the junk you typed and have to redo it slightly worse.

there was a key combination that restored the open tab, but I forgot. That way you'd also get your gathered proof back. I had this once, and I also have this often when I accidently click another link. The back button gives you back your text here. (I use Chrome, not sure if it's different on other browsers). Just trying to help you. I disagree with your range though. If you're serious about this, try again in metal. .9 keys really is horrible. .8 was acceptable (still looked terrible, but acceptable) as that's a ref, but what on earth is .9 of a key.

Bucket didn't like the .8, Sir Jon didn't like the ref listing.

Compromise etc

And nobody ever likes compromises. Choose smeting. I'd say ref or 1 flat. But it's your suggestion, so it's your choice. I don't lthisrange and I could never support/upvote a .9 key range (well until next month when keys reach 10 ref and .9 means something)

ctrl + shift + t

Saved me so many times.

Good accurate proof

long vs cleverpun

Who's long?

A troll who bribes mods into accepting his suggestions

Now they acuse him of bribing the mods, even though they haven't accepted a key sugestion from him since he was un-banned.

what's with the range?

All the mods agreed that .2 keys = 1 ref

I don't see why the range can't be in refined though because 0.9 is kind of weird

I did originally list it in pure metal, it was closed for not being in keys

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/515e3ae4ba2536484500000d

fair enough

thats silly, why should it be in keys. I think you were right the first time

My ´semi-successful buying at 4´ that you posted wasn't successful at all.

Still upvoted though.

Also one more for a key - scrap:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10568831

removed your links; I accidentally doubleposted it anyway

That's my link. I closed it. Decided not to sell for 1 key + 1 scrap after long's suggestion passed.

Yeah, removed my vote. Anything less than a key sells in minutes or even seconds.

Considering I still have three unsold @ 4.77, and I sold about 3 in 6 days at a key, Im gonna have to disagree.

No trader represents the market by themselves, that's why a key is still in the range.

I don't understand why yours are still unsold. I sold 9 at a key in roughly 3 days. Im just guessing people are not willing to look further as some people desperatly need a gift wrap ASAP.

Down

Dafuq ?

http://postimg.org/image/nduucme4n/ sold 4 for a key and one for a TC, the tc i sold for a key + rec

http://postimg.org/image/oll0dg3kn/ and another one for a key

http://postimg.org/image/xlnkuc9pd/ and another 2 for keys

http://postimg.org/image/3lsd4n3h9/ also sold one for a s. flare gun, with crits and posthumous kills, then sold a regular s. flaregun for a key + rec and gonna keep this one for use.

TC/flare fall under item overpay, the rest are within range

well the flare is worth 2.5 keys which would be 250% in overpay, which i think is a bit much.

the flare gun is not 2.5 keys, it is slightly over one key (5 - 5.33)

It had 2 parts on it. Of course we shouldn't add full value of the parts, though, so maybe 1.5 or 2 keys. Its still ~1 key or more in item overpay though.

bp.tf has it valued at 2.5 keys currently.

Not that i always agree with bp.tf's prices of paints/s. parts.

Stupid range.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10568831 (sold 1 so far @ 1 key. Current trade)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10559358 (sold 2 in 5 minutes, decided to close after I sold 2) Clever, you quoted my trade on your last suggestion

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10195475 (sold many, they just didn't post. Had 3 bookmarks)

They are indeed getting harder to sell @ 1 key.. On average I would sell about 1 every 3 hours.

If this changes, Lime paint and Pink Paint needs to change also. Those 2 are even more difficult to sell at 1 key than the gift wrap.

I actually quoted all three of your trades in this suggestion; third paragraph last line.

I sold about 12 limes today for 1 key each or the equivalent in metal/items. And my gifts for 1 key go pretty fast too. Even 5.33 works.

Odd scot.. How do you sell them so fast?! I bump my trade every 30 minutes and I haven't sold a Lime paint or Pink Paint in many days xD

Taking item offers works best. I'll upload trades from the last two days.

Edit: I'll send you my trades from yesterday on. Too lazy to pick the gift wrap trades out and I don't care enough if the value goes down.

I'm looking at your outpost trades.

How successful are you at selling Pink Paint, Lime Paint, and Gift Wraps for Genuine and Vintage Items?

If it is not relevant to the suggestion please use PMs. Adding or sending a chat request is easier than spamming the suggestion

whattttt? i sold this every day for 1 key each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10111050

http://bazaar.tf/trade/191336

Key is still in range

the reason we are using 1 key as counterproof is because it's plenty easy to sell at the current price. I've sold 1 for a key + rec, two for 1.5 keys in items each, and 2 for 2 keys. In the span of 30 minutes

Proof, although already posted, is here. http://imgur.com/a/LnhaT

I feel like this is kinda a pissing contest here

This isn't about beating what's-his-face, it's about being honest with the people who use the site. 1 key flat is an incorrect representation of the market for this item

I'm not so sure about that. Here's the stuff I've sold.

sold an unusual a bit ago for 19 gift wraps, this was the result that same night.

http://imgur.com/a/LnhaT

sold 62 in 5 weeks for 1 key each...

it actually is.

also market sold plenty at 1 key+ already

But there are also wraps being sold for more then a key, shouldnt that be listed then?

It would make a range of 0.9-1.1 keys

and then that will officially be the weirdest range ever.

Last time I checked the item wasn't jarate.

Cleverpun, in full honesty, I think you're pushing too hard on this one. With this you're making yourself look like a hypocrite (you saying you won't accept quicksellers but a day later using them yourself ad proofs. I am not saying you are a hypocrite, I don't know you well enough, but you're making yourself AND this site look bad. Now I don't really care about the public's opinion of you, but as you are an admin here, people might get a hard time believing and trusting this site. If that continues this might become a second spreadsheet, and neither you, me, OR the outside world and trading community has any use of the fall of this great website. So please, stop pushing too hard on this price. If it's really that terrible the price will be updated soon enough, I just think you should stay away from suggesting/accepting/closing prices for this specific item for a while.

I'd be a hypocrite if I let people get ripped off; the entire point of a pricelist is to inform consumers.

Saying the majority of trades happen at a key is clearly false and I feel my proof shows that.

I never said your proof was incorrect, or that the price isn't 'tunder a key. I just say this is NOT the solution.

If my reputation suffers to make the site more accurate my heart will go on.

It's not your reputation we're worried about, it's the reputation of this site as you represent it.

ripping off? You are buying for 4 ref each, that is A RIP OFF mate.

I've gotten so many at that price obviously people don't have a problem selling it that low consistently. Hence this suggestion; informing buyers they are paying too much is just as important as informing sellers they can get more

Your proof doesn't really show that majority of trades don't happen at a key, since there are 19 selling pages on outpost and 20 buying pages, and you have 11 links from the two kinds (most of which are closed). 11/~900 trades isn't a majority, especially on a very commonly traded item like this.

sold mine for a key within a day, downvote

Downvote from me, sold 2 gift wraps for 1 key each with no problems.

The reason of the range, is that there are some available for less than 1 key. Check the classifieds. Also if you post a buying trade for less than a key, you could get them rather easily.

is it because of long that you agree with this suggestion?

I accepted the other suggestion before that. Any more irrelevant comments?

just a question, why do you hate long so much?

I'm done discussing him.

the trades that are available for less than 1 key, are few and people are usually quickselling them, it is still easy to sell at 1 key, so i think it needs more proof

hope you will not accept cleverpun's gift wrap suggestion with quicksell proof again. Pretty interesting to see what other mods think about all this (strange range, strange proof, strange admin's behavior, etc) .

I'll resubmit at 1 before long. 0.9 just is STUPID

+, i bought 3 for 3.66

trying sold for 4.66 or more - unsold

Just le it be 1 key, sells easy like that and is a comfortable number...

This needs to be a key for the trading of untradables to work. In a trade if the buyer supplies gift wrap then a key is exchanged for this. Making it less than a key is unbalancing the exchange and making it more complicated.

sold mine for a key and the range is dumb, downvote

0.9 keys, wierd

wait so long's price got accepted?? I saw plenty of sales under a key. He even posted one on my comment saying so...

#Spam

just sold one for a key downvote nuuuga

on these days a lot of peoples want the poker night 2 items so the demand of the gift wraps is high

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10623600

unsuccesful buyer at key-rec

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10628365

buying for a key

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10593527

unsuccesful buyer for around your stupid .9 range

It took me a whole 30 seconds to find a trader and trade a gift wrap for a key on outpost so I would have to disagree with this suggestion.

Okay, here is how this shit works.

People buy gift wrap from the store.

People try to sell it for a key.

Everyone is trying to sell for a key.

People are willing to pay a key.

There are not enough buyers to buy the wraps of all the new sellers.

Some peoples' trades go unnoticed.

To get noticed they sell for less than what people are willing to pay, because of impatience.

It gets sold quite quickly.

>sold quickly, only did it out of impatience, QUICKSELL.

The MAJORITY of trades happen at a key, lowering it by half a ref will do nothing.

I sold mine some days ago on the first bump for one key... I wont lose my time taking a ss from it but "0.9" .... 1 key is just a very confortable number , easy, and accurate I would say. sorry, downvote.