Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 5.11–5.22 ref

> A: 5.22 refined has been shown to sell quickly and consistently, doesnt sell as fast as 5 refined or 5.11 refined but out of 3 pages on outpost, I found only 2 5.22 sellers with stock and only a few at that.

> Q: Why not include 5.33 refined?

> A: 5.33 sales do happen but they also are readily availible on outpost at the current time. There is no reason to include 5.33 sales yet, they are just as outlying as 5 ref sales.

> Conclusion: Backpack.tf is now trying to stay on top of key prices. The current equilibrium price for keys is 5.11-5.22. 5 refined sales happen instantly while 5.33 sales take some time to sell.

_____..:: NOTICE FOR FUTURE KEY SUGGESTIONS ::.._____

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have past since the last increase,

- ***EXCEPT*** if a major event has occurred that has changed to price radically.

- ***OR*** if you do not agree with the last change, you may suggest to revert back with supporting proof & arguments.

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys that is only a .5 scrap difference from the last suggestion. We do not need this constant spamming of .5 scrap changes.

- ***EXCEPT*** if the price has been stable for ~7 days and only a small change is needed.

So you decided to do it yourself rather than have someone else fail at it. Seems legit.

w/e.

still an increase.

I am happy.

I wonder, if you get banned will your alt(s)?

Yes.

Not necessarily, if you've never used BP.TF with your alts and you use a VPN to connect, you won't be banned.

why does everyone hate Long so much?

I like your new name (:

admins, I somehow feel that this is provoking dislikes/hate/offtopic behavior. I'm talking both about his name and his comment(s).

Now, to not go offtopic myself, upvoted with a heavy heart. I don't like the change any more than you guys do, but jjon is right, it is needed. And he's doing it in a normal, non abusive way.

I am just glad that he closed mine and make a more accurated key suggestion.

Look man, do you really think I'm that stupid? "Still an increase, I am happy". This has nothing to do with accurate pricing, and you know that as well as I do. http://i.imgur.com/NS6MeOG.png

I know and said before that 90% of the community isn't nice to you either, but respect and good behaviour comes from 2 sides.

I don't care if I'm warned for this, but all Long got was a warning?

How much is he paying the mods to not be banned?

And with his new name? Doesn't that just about clinch it?

Come on, guys. He's deliberately raising key prices for his own greed. It doesn't take an expert to see that.

Ir's not really greed, he only has 33 keys (or something like that) which he got use of. The rest could just be apeshit, he can't trade the or anything he inboxes from then. He should stop, but it's not greed, at least not anymore, that is driving him to do this

He's changed his name to "Got a thing for key #greed"

And he still has hundreds of keys in his Backpack.

And is still an ass to everyone he can be to.

He's no longer tradebanned iirc

ivor, his main account is still tradebanned permanently. SourceOp still lists him as a banned user, and SourceOp does not ban anyone unless they do something that warrants it.

Oh, and for everyone who still thinks he has not been tradebanned...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/136435

Banned from the site, because he is a trade banned user.

That itself is damning.

I wouldt mind if he tryied, the problem is its working, and it looks like some moderators here are with him on this.

The amount of corruption in the tf2 economy right now is disgusting.

rules for key suggestions

very legit

And despite 5 ref keys selling very fast, there are plenty of sellers according to your own proof.

It's the amount of sellers what matters more, at least in my mind.

Well

I wonder if long decides to place another key suggestion to counter this one.

Let the battle commence.

Hmm just a question - shouldn't you prove that people are unable to buy for 5 ref to remove it from the range?

5 ref sellers pop up but sell very fast as you note (though all keys do of course), but I thought 5 ref was still a common successful buying price.

if tf2finance is at 5.11 then that should be the *middle* of the range. and actually keep in mind base64 added 4 trade servers recently where key trades are often done at lower prices than on outpost. the average has been around 5.11 the entire week meaning trades above and below 5.11 are happening at an equivalent rate.

i think the upper end is clearly higher than the current 5.11, but am pretty sure 5 ref should remain at the bottom end.

then there's over 10,000 keys in the tf2wh at 5 refined and traders continue to sell them to the warehouse whenever they are able to.

i think 5-5.22 is the proper range.

Says the person with 10 keys.

i don't want keys to go up. i have been countering and trying to convince everyone (fruitlessly) that the outpost->bp.tf feedback is very real and very unhealthy for the economy.

i have been trying to prove that tf2 player do use metal and that metal farming at a large scale is a myth. see: http://one-crate-per-week.tumblr.com/post/49723737022/week-11

i am pointing out that the lower of the range should remain at 5 refined. and while i hate seeing it, i agree 5.22 should be upper range.

i've never bought or sold keys for metal and i never will.

i think you're raging against the wrong person.

You've never bought keys?

The key history tells a different story...the majority of your keys came from different people? Care to explain :)

you may want to work on your reading skills, dixie :D

i said i never bought or sold keys for metal

i've sold many items for keys. i've bought many items with keys. just not metal - key conversion - ever

Get off your soapbox. Suggestions aren't your blog. If you want to present opinions instead of counterproof go to the forums.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10725749 - I am a 5.22 ref buyer. I have gotten only 1 seller

And i agree to remove 5 ref because i had a 5 ref buying trade and got nothing.

Downvoted, 5 ref should still be in range. Even if it means 5.33 will be too. Or just make it stable 5.11

You're around 2 ref too late for implementing new key price rules.

"Backpack.tf is now trying to stay on top of key prices."

So you weren't trying earlier? Nice.

Counterproof!

http://i.imgur.com/3OGjjZC.png

I don't think one person selling at 5 ref counts as counter proof. And we all know it's possible at 5 ref, you can even get them for 4.66, but you can also sell for up to 6 ref, and at 5.33, so if 5 ref is in the range, wouldn't it be unfair to exclude 5.33?

Jon, I'm a little confused. Why do you post the new price as 5.11-5.33 when you have plenty proof that keys sell (although faster) at 5.00? I would understand if it's a ridiculously low price - I mean people will JUMP on a key for 4.66 - but there are still plenty of people WILLING to sell for 5 without worry.

I just bought 3 keys for 5 ref -----> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10753179

I recently bought 3 Keys at 5 refined with this trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10702266

Again, trade.tf is still registering key trades at 5 ref

http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

It's still possible for 5 refs I often see sellers on trade servers and even bought a couple .

Maybe I'll post a trade or two.

If you read, he said it's possible, but so is 5.33, he's excluding both. If 5 ref is included, then 5.33 would be needed as well

What's the point of making a range excluding it if they're obtainable then ??

LOGICZZZ ??

Then it would have to be 2.33-6 ref. Anyways, 5 ref is quicksell.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731174 5 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731068 5 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731413 5 Ref

all instantly sold

get used to only outpost being used for proofs.

but this is why in my comment i mention that base64 added 4 trade servers to tf2finance and ever since then the price of keys has actually flattened out. i can't remember the last time tf2finance has been flat an entire week.

Find my posts on the last suggestion type lu7ky in the ctrl+f bar

I sold two @ 4.66 just now

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731174 5 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731068 5 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731413 5 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10730837 An outstanding 2.33 ref. Just a few links that probably won't change anything but it just shows you it is possible to buy for 5 ref

"> Q: Why not include 5 refined?

> A: 5 refined sellers sell extremely fast, 5 refined buyers are in abundance throughout the day, anything at and below 5 refined is a quicksell."

You just proved his point. All those disappeared instantly.

If anything at 5 refined is a quick sell then why do loads of people do it per day? And just because they got bought does not mean that it should be supporting a range of 5.11-5.22, it should be hurting it but since this is TF2 logic somehow 5 ref sellers help a 5.11-5.22 suggestion

No one denying that. Hell, there are even a couple sellers around at 4.66 if you stalk OP 24/7, but does that mean 4.66 should be included in the range?

It all depends on the amount of people selling at 4.66

All 10 of those 5 refined keys sold out almost instantly.

Doesn't matter. If enough people are willing to sell for 5 ref, then it should be in the range.

The speed at which they sell does matter. If there were 10 Earbuds that instantly sold for 19 keys, then it says nothing about how much Earbuds are worth except that is it at least 19 keys. We would not be able to use those trades as evidence for the price of Earbuds except as a boundary for the low end.

But last I checked, buds aren't sold for 19 keys. Stop using hypothetical situations, use real situtations please

Let's make it 5-6 refined then, chigga. If people are willing to buy at 6 ref, it should be in the range.

Why don't you take a look at the comment I posted 2 hours ago? It's just above your comment

I've sold keys at 6 ref. It's not a hypothetical situation.

After outpost comes back up ill copy paste my trade link.

I personally sold one at the price the community wants - 4.66

I'm not sure that one trade represents the majority of tf2 users. Or that it warranted commenting three times.

Sorry about the multiple posts I just wanted to have them get pm messages as this discussion is not organized in such a way things are easy to find.

A simple minimize button like you see in the old versions of my computer/explorer would really help, I made several posts that I cannot find due to massive walls of text that cannot be pushed aside once read

It's funny because there are tons of 5.22+ buyers out there, and they could easily sell for more by just doing a simple search.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfzpkiB3LC1qafrh6.gif . Since most people are like "Let's upvote since it's a Blue star and a mod", now it's gonna be confusing. Anyways, I think the proof is looking pretty good, as you've shown 5 ref is a quicksell (although I don't get why they don't sell to scrap.tf). Upvoted.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ Finace shows keys at 5.09 and if keys can still sell for 5 ref quickly, it shouldn't be taken out of the range yet

It's being taken out, because 5 ref is pretty much quicksell. And since when do people care about what finance says?

cause it shows the medium of what keys are selling for, if tf2 finance is lower than the new price, its not time yet

Where were you for like the last 20 key suggestions? No one trusts finance. Apparently it can be manipulated. Did you not see all those people raging at the key suggesters when they used finance as a guide?

Apparently, yea any proof? That would be realllllllll nice

Nope no proof at all. Do you have any proof it can't be manipulated?

Nope No proof at all like your comment about manipulation

*faceplam*

Do you relay beleave in finance? Its manipulated FFS

How is Finance being Manipulaed? I seriously want to know

u got proof it can´t?? None, ye none*facepalm*

You have no proof saying its getting manipulated but you think I am in the wrong, don't go off speculation because people won't take you seriously

only when it is used as "counteproof"

the reverse could also be said. it used to be part of every suggestion until base64 added some very popular trade servers to tf2finance and the key price flattened out.

that would be others than long. He loves it (when he can use it to make a range go up up up, he hates it when it should bring it down)

Same with the voters. If it shows keys are going up, then its invalid, and can't be trusted, and if it's under a suggester range, its the best counter proof in the world

yes of course, everybody is a hypocrite.

^ Honestly, that is so true D:

I wouldn't count five ref out just yet, given both finnance and trade.tf floating around this current range.

They sell at 5.33, so why the bloody hell isn't that in the range? Too wide a range? Three scrap is now a wide range? What happened to .TF broadcasting current prices?

''Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have past since the last increase''

But... What's Long gonna do with all his free time between that? ;-;

Not sure if i should vote yes or no :S.

Don't. It won't matter anyway.

So one key vote every three days... nice to know that keys will hit 10 refined by Halloween, if you calculate a 1 scrap increase every three days.

I have said it since October, and I will say it again: This urge to increase key prices infinitely makes absolutely zero sense. 50,000 keys per month are added through in game purchase, and whether or not you see the keys increase or not is determined by when new crates are added into the drop system. Keys have been at a steady $2.49 price tag for 3 years, and yet metal prices have increased exponentially since October. It now costs double what it did then. I absolutely see no logic into pricing something like there is only a limited amount of them, and continuation of reliance between Outpost key sales will only ensure the keys reach that 10 refined watermark by Halloween.

There are those who will say, "Put some keys on Outpost and you'll be surprised by the offers I get". What if I don't feel like doing so? Even when I buy keys, I don't want to immediately sell them. What I see right now is an addiction, an obsession, into getting the most bang for your buck, where soon the only way you can get a key is to open up your pocketbook and pay for them. I don't see key resellers breaking their habit, because they are so focused on profit that they are slaves to their addiction, and they will never sell for lower... which will inspire people to buy more keys from the source instead of via Paypal or Outpost, because they don't want to deal with the attitude of traders, and I have seen several times where keys have equaled the in game price. When Halloween comes, I already anticipate that the value of the keys in market will exceed that of the keys in store.

If you guys are going to go by the same tired economic standbys, forget it. I don't want to here it. Neither do a lot of people, since the same people are making the same bullet points.

One thing needs to be thought of, and have critical thinking applied to it: Was anything really accomplished since October, since this began?.

I agree, Key prices have to stop rising, It doesn't make any sence. It is just because people get gready.

"He sells 1 for 5.66? Then I will sell them for 5.66!".

This is how things rise in price, So just STOP IT!

Hype hasn't gone down. Blame the buyers who are willing to pay high priced keys.

I do, if they just don't buy keys for a week, the price will drop

The problem is that the hype is predominately speculative, and nothing real concrete is backing up the speculation. Pretty much, the key market has turned into this massive circle jerk, where no one really profits off of anything anymore, and you have a slew of people worried about their backpack value, using their backpack value to brag about how much it is worth, and cant picture crafting 3 refined into a hat because they are afraid of losing $1.

The problem is that the people that are buying into the hype and are being suckered into this massive circlejerk are indeed the same people defending the price increases to defend any possible losses, as they too become slaves to the addiction. The constant key price hikes could be seen as an addiction of sorts, because you have people buying and selling keys at these ridiculous prices not bothering to stop the addiction and indeed do their best to feed it

I just sold a key @ 4.66

Go on outpost, or just read my comment earlier with all the outpost links

Buyers want to pay 4.77-5.11 with one guy paying 5.22 PURELY for resell

The hype is not wanting to pay more, it is wanting to sell high as seen by long's proof consisting only of sellers

No, it's not their fault.

The buyers can't do anything. It's either 5 ref keys, or

6 ref keys.

They don't have a choice of what price to pay, the sellers are in control, literally.

I will never support the selfish key traders. I'll never buy a key again. I'm waiting for a crash. If I'm buying keys it will be trough the store itself

You posting on every single key suggestion your opinion about the rising key price, which is definitely not the place to post this.

Get to the forums.

I'm really tired to see the suggestion filled with spam like this.

Hypocrite, this is exactly the same kind of spam as from potatoman. Think it through before you post this ''spam''

This is not spam, it is advice.

Something totally different.

What?

Sir Jon, the fact that you're warning and removing so many benign comments is worrying me. It's almost as if you're silencing people that oppose you in any way. Why are you moderating your own suggestion? It's like going to court, with the judge also being yourself.

I am only hiding comments with no real value: http://backpack.tf/vote?showrules=1

"Long is running at 1 downvote / 30 sec. New record!"

"doesn't matter. moar money!"

"Its hurricane Season if I remember correctly, live it out safe in California ;)"

"Here comes the super negative votes for longs comments, Brace yourself guys, it's gonna be a long day."

"Hear we go again *O no, not again* Just rise it to 10 ref already so it can crash faster"

"IT BEGINS "

"OWNZ 1 IZ TOTULLY NAWT LEGIT U R SCAMMMUR STAHP TRYIN 2 INFLAET UR BP"

I have no idea how any of those have any relevance to the suggestion

Wait, if those are irrelevant, why did you remove my comment? I was commenting on the fact that a new key suggestion was released a few minutes after another key suggestion was denied.

Your comment didn't make any indication of that, all it said was "well, that was quick".

I just find it strange how your definition of no real value differs so much from other suggestions. I didn't see you jump in to remove every dumb comment on Long or Hatch's suggestions, why are you acting so defensive on yours?

P.S. Talking about the relevance of comments has nothing to do with the suggestion. Shouldn't you warn yourself as well?

Perhaps you should take a look at Long's previous key suggestion. Cleverpun removed a lot of comments right there.

And the new rules got recently adjusted. That's why earlier suggestions didn't have a lot of removed comments.

I would assume that, with logic, one would be able to piece together that a comment like that would go with the fact that a new key suggestion, was made (about) 2 minutes after another one was denied. My mistake then :)

I have to agree with warning those comments, however by doing thus on your oen suggestion those "buckpuhk iez currahpt, the mahds unlikethithink abauwt themselves" shouters aregiven more sprculation material. From an economical/political way of view I'd say let anoother admin do it.

I agree, Key prices have to stop rising, It doesn't make any sence. It is just because people get gready.

"He sells 1 for 5.66? Then I will sell them for 5.66!".

This is how things rise in price, So just STOP IT!

let me explain:

"well that was quick"

"well that was quick that"

"well that was quick that as"

*keep adding*

"well that was quick that another suggestion was made as soon as long's suggestion got closed."

was it really that hard?

Backpack.tf is not a democracy its a dictatorship (people that arent mods have no say in anything)

key prices are getting higher then ever its not that i dont like it but its better off staying at the same price for a couple of months before it changes :P

On topic- Five refined should still be in the range, I still see enough popping up at it or lower. It's not "quicksell" imo

Slightly off topic: Why are the admins going warn happy? This is starting to look like spreadsheet v2.0, with admins going a little power crazy, and the rich winning over the masses.

Bro. Listen.

You people need to stop blaming spreadsheet for manipulation and greed. The creators were good people with good intentions, I knew them.

I used spreadsheet for a full year, I never saw any problems with it, I was just fine.

Backpack.tf is starting to see it's fall in my eyes, but spreadsheet never did. It's sad to see everyone jumping on the backpack.tf bandwagon and leaving spreadsheet.

But weren't there reports that the owner of spreadsheet manipulated a few of the prices to make a profit for himself?

He responded to that actually.

You should see his reply.

http://tf2spreadsheet.blogspot.ca/2012/11/spreadsheet-accusers-evidence-examined.html

And look, did he EVER change the key price? NO. It was a stable 2.33 for a lonnggg time, wouldn't he change the key price to make profit for himself?

He was a great guy. He gave keys out EVERYDAY, not once a month like this site. Plus anyone could get in the raffle, you don't have to be premium or go on that site TF2Shop to get it. He gave it to you himself.

I don't want to say anything to get me a warning, so I will leave it there.

You're already way off-topic, so it's a bit late for not wanting warnings.

Get on your soapbox somewhere else.

The evidence against him manipulating a price was fairly damning though. However, I think part of the reason was that the botkiller was indeed a new item on the market, and hard to price. The argument between sites pretty much boils down to this: Do you want 1 person to have the ability to benefit slightly, or do you want the rich to get richer and the poor, poorer.

The new site rules clearly state that off-topic or contentless comments are spam. Everyone had to agree to them.

Key suggestions have been free-for-all flame wars for ages and its long past due that some standards were put in place.

How about...no? # of keys sold > how fast they sell. Another thing, stop warning people because they're making fun of Long. If someone keeps making key suggestions to bring keys UP then they should prepare for a ton of hate.

Insulting users is not cool, regardless of who is being insulted.

"insulting users is not cool"

PEASANT · warned 11 minutes ago by cleverpun · Score: 0 Show

You have a key, I call manipulation!

How is that an insult?

How isn't it? It's a baseless accusation which has no bearing on the topic at hand.

Or it was a sarcastic joke, in which case it has no place in a suggestion.

Then how come in other suggestions there are sarcastic jokes, and the admins don't warn or do anything about it? Explain please.

I do. The mods are still getting into the habit of moderating comments on suggestions under the new rules, so some of them may not warn things that deserve it.

I have personally refrained from making counter-suggestions for keys in the past because I am a mod.

I'm not sure that a key suggestion coming from a staff member is a good idea, regardless of its accuracy.

Well it was either me or long...

But to whichever mod decides on this, please remember to consider the counter argument, which has its points as well: Should 5 refined stay in the range? With Trade.tf scanning outpost, you can procure endless quickselling single 5 refined trades. Im not sure if this is just normal and trade.tf just brings it out or if 5 ref is really just a nice number for many people but the numbers are there.

As to my suggestion, I do not think of it as much as a price range as I did a price equilibrium, becuase sales happen at 5,5.33, 4.66, 5.55 and all over the place.

also keep in mind that if tf2finance shows 5.11 then the are sales both above and below that value.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ right now is 5.08. it's been around 5.11 all week. i think the addition of those RAWR trade serve shows what a lot of commenters have been saying for *months* now (but getting ignored) - that you can get better prices on trade servers and maybe that needs to be somehow included in the suggestion proof

edit: if it's at 5.11 and a range is needed, then the price should be 5-5.22

Why are you still letting long making suggestions anyway ?

Why are you ignoring 5 refined key sellers?

See the above comments by Michael Puddington

Yes, but you ever go to a real trade server and say you are selling something?

Everyone checks the price and will offer you below or exactly the lowest price.

(using !pc with 99% of results gathered from backpack.tf)

With that being keys, and keys going up, anybody would take that. It is like having an item on sale, any smart person will buy the cheapest they can get.

Getting back on track, that means if backpack or !pc were to say 4.88-5.11, then no one would buy a key @ 5.00 they would offer you 4.88.

Simple answer to people crying about key prices:

"Oh no keys are getting too expensive!"

So fucking what? Are keys going above 5 ref? Let them be, it'll sort iteslf out eventually. Are keys going above 6 ref? Let them be, it'll sort itself out eventually. If keys are going to go up, let them go up. Eventually, they're going to crash/be mass-produced from steam community or mannco purchases and be devalued/etc. It's not like they're going to keep going up infinitely. There are very simple things that can cause keys to crash, and very many of them.

Keys are eventually going to hit a certain level, then go back down. People need to realize this.

You wanna bet. Give me an example of any trend that has last this long mind you, that the price has been going up since early Nov. if it does settle it would not go back down as what would cause it to do so, and "mass produced" how so?

But your are right on one point people should stop whining as there is nothing they can do and not saying I like the fact keys are rising more, but that this is based on showing proof that a particular item can be bought at the suggested price range if those numskulls (cleaned it) wanna buy keys for that price and that's the majority, then the price should go up.

Problem is that the rich people who can get all keys (and their fore hold the majority of the supply) are bumping up the prices by reducing the amount of keys that can be released to the players who don't buy from the Mann Co. Store (reducing the supply). Prices go up, and as they do more and more people decide that they would like to jump on the bandwagon and sell keys like this. A huge supply would flood the market, and only so many keys are used up in crates, that the the demand slows to a crawl while the excess keys are being used up. Supply is now high and demand is low, so the market for keys crashes, and with it the value of everything. It's like the 1920's and 1930's all over again.

Upvoted, if only because you're actually being reasonable and not trolling people in-between suggestions. Also, because your proof is accurate.

I apologize in advance for this big post but...

When pricing an item, supply AND demand need to be put in place.

This means finding minimums and maximums, exclude the extremes and use the median of top sellers AND buyers. If no one wants your product at the listed price, after some math, the price is adjusted to be something more reasonable.

Here are my results from again, 3 pages like the data above:

Buyers:

4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10493624 (1 week ago but still had an offer of 5.11)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10293352 (2 weeks ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6519947 (no buys as of 3 weeks ago)

4.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10628947 (no buys in 4 days)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10327515 (no buys in 2 weeks)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10517618 (1 week ago, price was 4.66)

4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10679893 (4.82) (no buys in 2 days)

5.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9058039 (buys yesterday and 1 week ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10444885 (buys 1 week ago and an offer of 5.22) - separate trade open for 4.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10525441 (last buy 4 days ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10703419 (2 buys in last 24 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10711072 (bought 2 keys 8 hours ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10703301 (bought in last 24 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10572845 (bought in last 24 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10237630 (offer to buy 15 20 hours ago, last confirmed buy 1 week ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10226913 (last buy 1 week ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9070570 (bought two 9 hours ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8074439 (bought 3 weeks ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10688600 (no buys in 24 hours)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10511998 (bought in last 24 hours and 1 week ago)

Had an offer of 6 ref each 4 days ago...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9609901 (trade closed after 6 days due to: lack of funds?) - was reselling @ 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10631368 (bought 2 days ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10409899 (1 week ago) - reselling @ 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10607577 (bought 1 day later - 4 days ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10606674 (5 days ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10691796 (found seller same day - 1 day ago)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10241323 (last buy 2 weeks ago)

5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10592434 (trade closed after 6 days due to: lack of funds?)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10709037 (took approx 23 hours to find a seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10711185 (took approx 21 hours to find a seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10667743 (2 days ago, took 1.5 days for a seller)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10641389 (took 1 day to find a seller - 3 days ago - massive price increase on and - purely for resell)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10680370 (no buys 2 days later)

5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606 - (bought some 7 hours ago)

Was 5.22 but downed it. FIRST guy to be paying more than 5.11 but purely for resell.

Sellers

5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10740017 (sold instantly)

5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10708648 (no stock and no sales after 24 hours) - selling to rebuy @ 5.00

~~http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10731741 (recent trade no buyers)~~

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10503252 (one possible buy after a week) - buys for 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10538562 (one sell a week ago) - buys for 5.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715602 (one unconfirmed sell in 24 hours) - buys @ 5.11

5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9779574 (no sells for 3 weeks but claims to be sold out and a cheap deal) - buys for 4.55

5.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7075222 (last buy @ 5.0 2 weeks ago. No buys since)

^^***** HIGHLY RECOMMENDED FOR RESEARCH *****^^

6.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10569912 (joke offers for a week)

In conclusion - 5.11 is a quick buy, while 5.0 is a quick sell ... therefore price is fine as is

What about 5.22 sellers? Its already been established that 5.33 takes a while to sell but 5.22 sells reletively quick

What?. 5 Ref is still possible.

Well, isn't that quaint. If you object to the suggestion but only share your opinion, you get warned by the mods. If you do however agree with the suggestion, then you get the heck downvoted off of you. It's a lose/lose situation. (Btw, search up a key buyer trade on Outpost and you can find a buyer for 5 ref in less than a few seconds. Another thing is that scrap.tf sells them for 5.22 and buys them for 5. I usually see keys in there, but an hour later I see them gone.)

I'm not sure it's a quick sell if heaps of people are still selling it at that price. Like alot of people. I just think it's a price buyers like so they buy it

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10713960 Sold 3 in few mins for 5.22

5 ref is still very much possible...

I've gotten a number of keys for a range of 4.88-5.11 ref with little hassle.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10708084

http://i.imgur.com/CVqCwHh.png

http://i.imgur.com/kJbM5cm.png

http://i.imgur.com/Bwuf6zu.png

http://i.imgur.com/d2CUEsQ.png

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10668984

My buying trade was at 5.11 ref until I realized how easy it was to get at 5 ref. I would downvote, but I have a feeling this will get accepted. You could at least have put it at 5-5.22 ref.

I Try to buy 2 keys at 5.22, it takes me 6 hours....

Then you're not trading smartly.

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/1879/keysx13.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img402/5995/keysx2.jpg

http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/6725/keysx22.jpg

3ish days old. 2 days of 2 keys being bought, 20 minutes apart. + 13 more.

No problems finding 5 refined sales here.

Very nice proof. Seems legit to me. Upvoted :)

Stop spamming the same pointless comment on every key suggestion.

This is your last warning before a ban.

You're the one using emotionally charged language and implicitly comparing the mods to some McCarthy-esque bogeyman. Who is taking things too seriously, again?

Stay on topic. This is for discussing proof not getting on your soapbox. This is a verbal warning.

upvoting, because the proof is there

but this is going to lead to something similar of the wall street crash of 1929.

take the stock market as the keys: the prices on the stock market rose to enormous hights, like the key prices now, prices of the stock were risen all the time against all logic, same with keys. why? everyone keeps shouting metal lost it's value, but how much did it lose? 0.05? and key prices were doubled?

a while after that everyting crashed, and why? because the underlying economy, take as metal, hadn't changed at all, why? everyone is shouting there's a lot of metal because of people idling, but wait? people were also idling before keys starting rising from 2.66?

TL;DR: the proof for rising keys are there, but it isn't going to end so well

http://postimg.org/image/jzvv76il3/ had my buying trade at 5 ref open, bought 5 keys by 2 people, both in the same day i opened my trade. (3 days ago, might be a bit outdated but posted anyway)

Yep I also sold mine for 5.11 couse the guy that added me added 1 wep http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10698096

I think it should be 5-5.22, Noone realy buys them at 5.33, and 5 is the lowest on which they will go, people "Quickbuy" them at 4.77.

what's the point of making the suggestion? Look at all the other suggestions, they got negative score and STILL got accepted. Obviously since an admin actually suggested this, no matter what we do, this key suggestion will pass regardless of vote percentage.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5186b8a04bd7b88859000015

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51771b054bd7b82e2e000012

There are no certainties...

Wow, that's utterly ridiculous. Isn't this a community driven site?

Good proof, upvote

I'm trying to sell a goddamn key for 5.22ref and am unsuccesfull. Downvote :/ Btw can you please buy it from me? :D Add me if so

How about selling for a non-inflated price?

How 'bout no? I'm not fighting for low key prices, but I downvoted this suggestion because there are plenty of keys for 5.11ref and it's impossible to sell at 5.22

While I agree with the 5.22 high end of this, I absolutely do not agree with the 5.11 low end. Why remove 5.00 if even you proved that it still exists, and in abundance too? It's absolutely not quicksell price.

I myself easily found a key seller at 5.00 yesterday and bought a key: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10725167

Lastly, I just figured out one beautiful thing. If we stop changing the price, then the price will stay as it is. As I read on a previous suggestion in a comment, shouldn't outpost be reflecting market price, not making it? If there are 5.00 traders, and a lot of them, shouldn't we reflect them as well?

Thanks for reading, feel free to discuss. I'm not exactly a pro in TF2 trading, in fact very far from it, but this is my opinion.

5 Refined should be in the range. Was able to buy few keys for 5 ref each for last 2 days, I can get the proof from inventory history if you'd like.

i got a key for 5.05

So you scammed someone?

Just so we're clear - dude said before 0.55 .. :/

Im pretty sure, the admins are manipulating, votes should be accepted atleast when over 60% of the voters agree.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5187e6eeba2536a948000001

( This vote is only at ~40% and still got accepted )

I agree, but we all know in the end this will get accepted, chances are if a admin made the suggestion, it will get accepted.

The biased voters are trying to manipulate the keyprice with their downvotes.

Votes don't count at all if its accepted or not.

As much as like getting as much back for my real world buck in TF2, the prices of the ticket and key have skyrocketed in the past few months. This has been met with the lowering prices of in-game items, and reduced gain from those who play the game (as you now need twice the scrap for some items that cost a key or more). And eventually this has to stop or keys and their associated items will be worth so much that the common layman (TF2 non-cash buyer) will be completely left out of the market unless he gets a lucky hat craft worth '1 key'. This could greatly reduce the market for people to sell to, reducing the prices of items greatly (or the key).

Upvoted, so long as he isn't in charge of his own suggestion XD

tf2finance has been averaging quite nicely at 5.11 refined over the past few days, and as base64 is clear to outline: "please use this page [tf2finance] for daily average or long-term trends only."

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ || http://i.imgur.com/LckloIS.png

I pose this question to you: why not wait out the week now and see whether there truly is a growing upward trend to need this bump, or see if a smaller increase may only be needed? As you have stated: "if the price has been stable for ~7 days and only a small change is needed." Quite frankly, right now it seems the key price is rather stable, flat-lining at 5.11 refined over the past 2 days.

This comment has nothing to do with whether or not backpack.tf influences the price of keys. Its quite obvious that people are buying keys for a higher price than backpack.tf before it is even listed here. My main point is to whether or not this bump is truly necessary due to the price seeming relatively stable over the course of this week. Notice that it still fluctuated slightly above 5.11 refined early in the week a day or so after the price suggestion had already showing that the upward trend is ahead of backpack.tf and backpack.tf is lagging behind purposefully. This is to ensure backpack.tf records accurate prices rather than creating a bump that quite possibly overshoots the current market for keys however were left with a price that is commonly below the market price by a weapon or a scrap and yet backpack.tf is still seen as the great driving force behind it all. This is not to say that backpack.tf is not an influencing entity, but it is not what is at the helm of the increasing price of keys. That would be left to the traders that see no issue in spending more and more refined for a key therefore making key sellers aware that they can sell keys for metal causing the price to rise and leaving a mass amount of people looking for someone to blame for this increasing issue that has been the center of attention in the TF2 trading realm for the past few months.

Probably going to close this myself because of this. Also, about my statement "if the price has been stable for ~7 days and only a small change is needed." probably should be more like ~5 days (+ 2 days to accept the suggestion makes 7 days)

I misinterpreted your comment. I have removed my prior comment and appologise for taking your comment off into a tangent.

No.

I just sold mine for a scrap hueheuehueheue http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10756454

Oh the irony of the person who bought it now reselling it for 5.33 refined: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10401969

Oh the irony! I absolutely did not expect this. This is horrid.

The anticipation is killing me, I wonder if this suggestion will be accepted considering all the shady acts done within the past hours and the few amount of counter proof, if so, I just hope the community is ready for what will soon happen next. Dictatorship?