Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 5–5.33 ref

Grand amount of evidence, unfortunately it may very much be true. If only there would be reasonable evidence for a larger range, I would think keys would stabilize a bit if it were so, but I guess it is not happening naturally it is not meant to be.

The rule only applies to >1 week suggestion accepted.

by the time this get accepted it would be more than a week.

No The prices are going up too much keys in general Its going crazy 1 year ago keys were 2 refined and i remember it just like yesterday. I don't even think backpack.tf prices on keys are even good any more I really suggest we lower keys back how the used to be

Thanks, robot_rockz

Inb4, read before you write, very original profile picture by the way.

Don't need to offer a proper response, just read below, and your name is below your comment.

but he is a le epic trolle

I believe the key will continue to rise to another ref or two. There is nothing that anyone can do about it. It also doesn't matter who suggests the price change. That said trade.tf indicates that 5 ref exchanges are still commonplace. That would counter this change. Also, finance shows little movement and is at 5.14. That suggests that all this proof is only of the high end trades and is not representative of all transactions.

http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

It appears as if the market is saying one thing in the OP post but doing another.

i agree with Charlie (including seeing keys go up another ref or two eventually).

i think 5-5.22 would have been the more correct range right now (as i said in the last suggestion). sure, people are buying for 5.33 but that's on outpost

one of the things that has really made a big difference in tf2finance reporting is the addition of more trade servers. for months now traders have been pointing out that you can get better key trades on a trade server.

this has been consistently ignored by suggesters here who seem to think the world consists of outpost and backpack.tf only. the addition of RAWR servers has helped flatten the tf2finance price showing trade servers must be taken into consideration

after a week of 5.08-5.11 on tf2finance we're now looking at 5.10-5.14 as a possibility.

in addition, the other ignored because it's not outpost source of keys, tf2warehouse is seeing it's stock stable at 5 refined. thanks to chris howie for updating his awesome graphs: http://tf2wh-charts.chrishowie.com/summary/5021/6/ which clearly shows keys leaving, but more importantly, *entering* their stock

Swag inc stated that when he tested his system when keys were at 4 ref it took along time for traders to adopt a price that was higher. Traders seem to like even numbers. A common example in the current would be if someone were selling a 2 key item and was offered 1 key and 5 ref, sellers are taking the offer. That's why his graph shows 5 ref even for the most part, If it took along time for traders to get off from 4 ref it will take long for them to get off 5 ref.

very good point about "even" prices.

i totally agree that keys have risen too much but honestly they can't rise much more cause people simply wont have the metal to buy them, and sellers will have to go cheaper to make money. with a bit of luck the price will start to go down again

This is not caused by regular traders. There are ref farmers who have as many as 100 some accounts and have devised a way to automate them. These farmers would be in places like Russia or other countries were unemployment is very high but have good education system and a low wage with low cost of living. They, as a full time job, will farm ref to trade for keys and than sell keys on paypal. For them its not a bad income. They don't care how much ref a key costs in trade, only that they can get it. There is a ceiling. It is generally figured to be around 7 - 8 ref, maybe 6~, it all depends.

This may sound really whacky but if there are even 200 of these such farmers, they would be able to trade for 1600+ keys a week at current prices. That's only in craft weapons not to mention all the other hats/misc items they would produce and than trade for metal.

True. There has to be some ceiling to key prices

Sorry, but how is this constructive at all? He's providing legitimate proof, and you're providing personal opinion.

Those links are not opinion. They are data from actual transactions. Also, the proof shown may not truthful as we have seen many times, traders of keys will change the price listed and still say they sold many at price.

Ah shit, responded to the wrong post. Sorry, I was trying to reply to the one above you.

Sold a key for 6 ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10682400

Ily long.

I swear the market in keys was kinda stable when the previous suggestion was accepted, I kinda think this one will rock it.

Hmmm not really, sales of 5.33 refs have been happening for a while now, not so much to be included in previous suggestions but still occuring?

Everyone hates you man....

He dosen't even care about having a negative reputation on this site.

http://i.imgur.com/l9d7r4i.png

How could he have only gotten a warning?

Jesus Christ, how much is he paying the admins to stay here?

I got banned 3 weeks after that.

Well, then why were you unbanned?

And why do you insist to drive up the prices of keys, like you had said?

because he's pissed at valve for trade banning him, so he takes out his anger at us, since he can't hurt valve

Well, I mean, he admitted to buying carded keys/unusuals, right?

Why should Backpack keep a guy who admitted it, and constantly pisses people off for the fun of it?

why is everyone saying that he is trade banned? his steamrep says he has no trade ban: http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198042823837

Mine neither and i'm trade baned.

Its evil man, its evil

good. remind me, why did they let you back?

The admins have said it before. I'll give a summary to the best of my ability of Chief's explanation.

Basically he walks a very fine line, he never does anything bad enough to get himself banned (except for that time he got banned 3 weeks), he gets warned for being an ass, but so does everyone else. He deliberately pisses people off. (I remember this part the best) "don't think we aren't watching him, I am watching him very closely waiting for him to mess up and do something bannable".

You may think all of the admins here love him- but they mostly don't.

Long has never done anything bad to me personally, so I don't mind him. Key prices are going up and if it wasn't him, it would be Hatch doing it. Also I posted elsewhere in here "So why pick on one person who contributes to the raise and not the thousands of people on Outpost contributing to it?" He is helping them rise by making these suggestions, but the REAL people to blame are those actually TRADING on Outpost so they can be used as PROOF for Long's suggestions. You should be pissed at THEM, not the guy who CAN'T TRADE and is doing this solely to keep the prices updated at this point. If there is one thing Long cares about it is his top contributor spot here, making these suggestions hurts his rep.

He makes you mad on purpose and you all get hooked right in, do you people seriously not realize this? I know I'll probably get warned for this, so sorry Clever, Bucket, Woifi, or Vincent, not doing this upset you guys, just trying to get people off your back for thinking you all love Long.

TL;DR- Long makes you mad on purpose, the admins don't like him, he isn't doing this for his own gain since he can't trade.

Also about this suggestion, it follows Sir J-J-John's new key rules (which I like, hopefully this will help show how much of an influence bp.tf has on the key market, if any). I think maybe 5.11-5.22 would be better though. Smaller range that is more accurate and would still fit under the 1 scrap minimum requirement.

Ah hem....

I DO get mad at highballers. I banned a guy who was selling keys for 5.55 today after he was like, "fuck you chigga, #long4life" on this trade server where I'm admin.

Also, I've used my alt to say to outpost highballers that they are overpricing and THEY are responsible. But after it got banned, I've stopped trying.

And I'd rather have Hatch do key suggestions, since he doesn't make good ones.

I wish Chief would get back on his case.

You banned someone on your server for selling keys at 5.55 ref? Wow, Long really did get under your skin. That guy was also probably just trying to piss you off as well by saying "long4life", which he accomplished.

I was an admin for Simply (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/SimplyServers) for quite sometime before it got broke up, specifically the trade servers. When you start banning people for selling things for more than it is worth, you are just becoming a badmin. It's only a game and people tend to forget that. If someone is selling at X, let them sell at X, don't go power trip and ban them for it.

Just like the Outpost sellers in this suggestion, if people are selling for X, and people pay X, both the sellers and buyers are at fault. They are contributing to the rise by selling their keys at X, but people are also contributing by BUYING them at X. If people wouldn't buy at X, people wouldn't charge X.

I would rather Long do key suggestions over Hatch. I would much rather have an accurate suggestion on here than a bad one.

You'll notice he said, "fuck you chigga" first.

And on the server, the rules state children may not talk. He continusly somehow got pass the mute command and his voice was...very annoying.

Except with bad suggestions, they won't pass. Also, Hatch isn't trying to destroy the market.

http://i.imgur.com/l9d7r4i.png

"And I'd rather have Hatch do key suggestions, since he doesn't make good ones."

Ouch.

It was a...compliment of sorts :)

I don't hate him, you're a liar.

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/37162308.jpg

How is this comment at all relevant to discussing whether or not his proof is valid and this is a better price?

Sold at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10785713

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10786780

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10787019

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10786336

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781116

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10778075

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10785874

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10785304

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10785178

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10741567

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10796490

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783594

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10748182

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783262

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10703017

Personal moment; I sold a key for 5.1, and got ~30 friend requests in a day, all asking for it. 5.3's seem to go REALLY slow, imo on outpost.

just sold a few keys quite easily at 5.33 refs each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10833280

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10833347

upvoted

sold at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775782 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783161 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10808954 add at 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10765827 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10824137 two adds in less than 3 hours at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10782796 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10765861 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10785268 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10793659 buyer at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10776800 5.3 each if buy both

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784769 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10779694 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10703017 sold

notice how many keys he holds.... This is straight up manipulation. Just because of all the highballers on outpost it'll keep going up and up. There's no reason to do this because whenever it goes up here, itll go up on outpost as well by a scrap more so there can just be more and more profit.

You think I'm an alt? PFFFFFFFFFFFFFF. You so funny.

lolwat, I see it all the time in the comments section if it's his suggestion

Candy Man, that's just being mean.

Are you dense in the head? Or just really really unfunny.

this range is probably more accurate since 5 is still entirely possible, and fianance is at 5.14 right now.

now for the 100 downvotes xD

where is the 5.33 part? you list 5.00, then 5.11, then 5.22, but you dont have any section at 5.33...

There isn't a section. It's all over the place...

There isn't a section for it for some reason, but there is plenty of proof at 5.33.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10600729 add at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10686142 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685533 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10677526 5.22+wep sold out

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10690059 sold at 5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10441024 adds at 5.33. sold out

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10689675 add and sold at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10586149 oos at 5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10639078 oos at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10620842 add at 5.33. sold out

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10641471 add and sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10688734 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10687913 sold at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685625 add at 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10448729 add at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10683279 sold 2. 3 left

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10689675 add and sold at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701252 sold at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701039 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/329269 sold at least once.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701319 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10716358 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715602 add at 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10716458 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10713514 sold plenty

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10703017 sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10631498 oos at 5.33

even more higher.

your eyes seem to be lacking

It might apply to your comment.

I still don't see why you can't make a 5-5.22 range. Can someone post the new rules on key suggestions again?

One of the admins said a key suggestion can't be made with only a 0.5 scrap change.

only applies to suggestions made less than 1 week after accepted suggestion.

and then long goes and preemptively posts a suggestion saying "well it'll be a week by the time it passes" - i don't think that was the spirit of the 1 week rule...

Long, why is your BP private?

It's like you're not interested in trading or the economy anymore, just breaking it.

ever since he was trade banned and got his ban away, its been private

Well, what has he got to hide?

Sharked unusuals?

Carded keys?

A porn stash?

Long, we demand answers.

But seriously, what's the reason?

he has carded keys, thats why he got trade banned

That's like a person who's been arrested for illegally dealing and purchasing drugs trying to advocate for legalizing those same drugs!

Why are we letting this guy do suggestions again?

Cause he has them shiny hats

Why not? He's providing legitimate proof. The only people complaining about him are the poor people who forgot to buy keys before they went up, and are now looking for a scapegoat.

I concur. Why IS he allowed to make these key price suggestions, again?

It shouldnt matter what he has in his bp, he has the proof(a hell lot) to back up this suggestion. I dont quite get the "he has 642 keys", it shouldnt matter what he has.

When it comes to accepting suggestions, these comments, comment scores, and votes mean absolutely nothing. The mods will accept a suggestion with ample proof. Take all these comments with a grain of salt; it's just an angry anti-key circlejerk.

TF2 Finance graph still shows a plateau in the key market. Outpost may be selling at differring prices, but there are still trades going on in game servers that are being traded for 5.11 refined. This suggestion I think has been insufficient. Comparing to the previous suggestion for the same price range, 'Long' has not accounted for out of outpost trades.

If you are using finance as evidence, shouldn't this be the new price because the average price is closer to the price on backpack?

No it shouldn't. There is a distribution of trades at the edges of 5 ref and 5.33 ref, but these trades do occur, but not as often enough, similar to how people may offer quicksale prices. I personally preferred the 5.22 range. Oh well.

But then again, people who are selling keys on Outpost are putting the price on the buyer/demand side of the market. Its because of their lower opportunity cost of listing the keys on Outpost. I know it is a reputable trading website, but the currency of keys is so widely distributed, that Outpost sometimes can smear the price above the market, because they can benefit by having the lower opportunity cost. Compared to people selling elsewhere, they can price higher. But if the market is solely reflected in Outpost, I guess I have no argument.

I think it's been stated that finance isn't able to be used as proof.

Understood. Not going to use it anymore.

"the people who have a sense of decency."

more like taking advantage of people ignorance.

So if I sell 2 keys at 8 refined each, should refined be in the range? Not saying I agree with the range, but if we wanted a range to encompass all sales, the range would be multiple refined and useless in my opinion.

Don't insult other users

Dude, do you think he's insulting? He's just explaining his true opinion that some users are selling BELOW the spreadsheet because they don't want greed in their hands anymore...

I was referring to the "asshole" part not the rest of their comment

Even though Long sees that comment, he doesn't care that much if someone swearing at him indirectly because he's getting used to it in the past and he's just "ignoring" haters around in his suggestion.

Good day to you, sir. :)

Long's feelings have nothing to do with it; this community has standards of civility and they apply to everyone.

Not a standard if it is forced, in that it would appear standard only do to censorship. It is but limitation to speech, if you truly want to set a standard influence people, they do not react properly to a warning. They only hate you more for it, which is silly considering your motives.

Also, OP is a somewhat different market to in-game, this is true, and it should be taken into account. The evidence is clearly supportive enough upon the suggestion, but hopefully we can get some submitted in-game trades for more evidence.

agreed with qnqnx

I agree with Cleverpun, not only is it his job to enforce the rules, but we must remember the aim of this site is to generate good prices, and conduct productive conversations.

Insulting people shouldn't be tolerated because it devolves what should be conversations about pricing and its correctness, into arguments and pettiness. The rule updates seek to address this, and we should respect that while people might be angry, or think the price change is unfair, they should find ways to express that with civility.

As a personal opinion, I think most people take comments quite a bit more seriously when they are expressed with goodwill, and in a reasonable manner. If you disagree with the price and want your opinion to have greater effect on pricing outcomes, consider that in how you express yourself.

>how much you raise the price like an asshole,

Do you see an insult here? I do.

He's speaking to Long indirectly, please understand the situation.

Seems like a direct comparison. Can you insult someone by comparing them to something....answer is yes.

lol cleverpun tells long off for insulting people and just gets bombarded with dislikes...

Yeah... No wonder Long is the #1 contributor on this site, and mods are defending him like bodyguards :P

Looks like the mods have yet to arrive here. Everybody, get any useless posts out of the way now so they can leave this page alone.

Unfortunatley, I have nothing else to post to prevent my own post from being downvoted, so I'll just chime up with this: at least the Key suggestion man isn't taking any obvious shots to attract negative rep. Not to mention, a week between suggestions is at least slightly better than his normal habits.

Holy shit, that's a lot of ~~links~~ sold links. You even used Trade.tf. I'm mashing the upvote button.

You represent everything wrong with backpack.tf. Look at the links. Or at least some of them. Or do what I do, which isn't looking at his links, but searching outpost and forming your own conclusion. Don't just upvote because they have a ton of links.

Tons of sold links.

I saw them. I upvoted this. I'm just saying that he upvoted the trade purely because he saw a lot of links. I'm sure you could have easily repeated trades a few times:

> Resellers buying at 5 refined (from last suggestion)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10253054

Later on...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10253054 sold a ton at 5.22. now at 5.33

I've made a few suggestions myself, and I realize how hard it is not to post duplicate proof. But people upvoting because they see a lot of links is like people up voting because they have a blue star.

Well, this is a shock. Another key suggestion, another key vote. And I observe once again, Long, that you don't heed the advice that Redwall gave yesterday and wait THREE DAYS for a key vote. You do realize there are a million more things that you could do than to constantly spam key suggestions.

This is accomplishing nothing, Long, and you know it.

One wonders what good is accomplished from making these constant key suggestions, considering your reputation on this site and off. You still have a tradebanned account, Your main account is banned from SourceOp and Outpost, and even here at this site your reputation is strained.

I don't buy the key hype one iota, since, as I mentioned a couple days ago, the hype around it is basically speculative and based off of nothing. The key market has devolved from something neat and orderly to an outright pain in the ass to deal with. The only way I would buy a key is through the store, since there are often times that the market has keys at prices equal to in game prices, someone sneezing is enough of a reason to raise the prices in metal, and there are questions about who to trust on SourceOp, with the carded key scandal (and Long was not the only one who bought carded keys) still fresh in people's memories.

The Robocrate/Robokey market should be analyzed closely, because how the keys are priced on the market, on Outpost, on this site, will bring to light unpleasant trends that will shake this community to the core come Halloween. Sensing that there are unusual effects that are exclusive to this crate, as with unboxing Halloween-exclusive effects in crates during Halloween, I can predict that those key's prices will exceed those in store, that it will be an arm and a leg in metal to buy one, that keys in player's backpack's will be traded away in the hopes of unboxing those limited edition effects, and this will serve as an excuse to bump up the prices even more. Don't laugh. I can see all of that happening.

When does this all stop? I am serious when I ask this. When does this all stop?

Three days waiting after an increase (=accepted suggestion).

The key's price has not changed in a week. Long's doing better than before.

Only because he is bound to do it by rules.

Question: "When does this all stop? I am serious when I ask this. When does this all stop? "

Answer: Whenever you want mate, just quit tf2.

Black market key prices will never rise above Valve prices. Keys priced in Refined don't matter in the slightest, it's USD that matters and that won't ever go above store price for very obvious reasons.

Ah, a -12 post by Poncho? It's about time. Maybe I should psychoanalyze you, so we can completely swap roles.

(Clears throat) Poncho, when one has to say "I am serious when I ask this" before and after asking a question, one has to question the integrity and seriousness of the question itself.

Furthermore, you've been leaving these walls of text that don't say anything of worth on nearly every key suggestion. I'd say you're obsessed, and that you're in denial. Or perhaps you're truly angry with key prices? If that is the case, perhaps you should play Half-Life 2, or Left 4 dead 2. I find that chopping off zombies' heads with saws can be quite relaxing. Just find your favorite level, and play.

- Do NOT suggest a new price range for keys until 3 days have past since the last increase,

- ***EXCEPT*** if a major event has occurred that has changed to price radically.

- ***OR*** if you do not agree with the last change, you may suggest to revert back with supporting proof & arguments. -Sir J-j-jon [Warrior of Redwall]. No Major Event has occurred for the price of keys to change. POSTED 2 Days Ago. I don't understand why do you keep making Key Suggestions when this price is perfectly fine?

First sentence refers to the last increase of keys. It was about a week ago. Long can make this suggestion.

Doesnt change the massive wall of proof long has...

If the current price is perfectly fine please find counter proof that 5.22refs + are mostly unsold :)

Guys, stop insulting long because he's making a key suggestion, no one gives a rat's ass as how many keys he's got, as long as he has the proof of sellers, not freking butthurt people not wanting keys to go up. He deserves an upvote

You clearly don't know his history around here.

I do know his history, he makes key suggestions because he wants to correct the prices easy as that

We know of his history, and it doesn't affect whether he should be able to make suggestions or not.

I hope someday people will realize that its not Long's fault for the Key raise but the people who buy keys for higher prices everyday.

It isn't long's fault, but he Is contributing to the problem...

So why pick on one person who contributes to the raise and not the thousands of people on Outpost contributing to it?

I would suppose it would be because he's one of the most infamous to contribute to it. In the case of the thousands, a not very well-known contributor is still a contributor.

Everyone is.

So you're just going to ignore that massive wall of proof?...*claps*

I bet you haven't even search more than 3 links before writting this comment.

it doesnt take long to just open new tabs, nearly all the 5.22 have sold and thats enough proof to say the current range needs an update lol

Hey, I'm really interested to know. What is your reason for suggesting a price? If you could reply I would appreciate it. Thanks!

Look at the proof..

That wasn't an answer to my question... I wasn't saying the key price shouldn't rise, I am asking why he wanted to post this here.

Take it to the forums, this ain't the place.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1484-regarding-the-welfare-of-backpacktf-%E2%98%A3long218%E2%98%A2/

The problem is, this "huge" wall of proof is countered by an even "huger" wall of proof against this. Unless the majority of people are selling it like this. There can be no change.

There hasnt been any counterproof atm, can't find counter proof because keys are going up xD

There haven't been any counterproof since people always sells keys at a higher price than normal. I once traded a guy keys was at that time 4.99 so 5 ref. When he found out the price had changed, he changed the price to 5.22 to always make those annoyingly 2 scraps of profit.

But because people are still willing to pay that extra...etc is one of the reasons why keys have been going up =_=

People stop buying keys at a ridiculous prices!

But still they will do it, as long as these market prices keep going up. If this is downvoted, and people realize that keys aren't worth this much, maybe, just maybe keys will have a stable price again.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794733 -- (sold for 5 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794576 -- (b/o: 3.33 in items)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794509 -- (sold for 9.22 in items)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794117 -- (sold for 5 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794108 -- (sold for 5 ref)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794020 -- (sold 2 for 5 ref each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794008 -- (sold 2 for 5 ref each)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10794002 -- (sold 2 for 5 ref each)

Current range is fine.

All those were sold near instantly... and it's obvious from long's proof that 5.22 and 5.33 are occurring alot(should be included in the range).

selling for 5 refs is still in his suggested range.

so what if they were sold instantly? still proves that people are selling within the current range

Well again it's still within the suggested range, except he provided links of alot of successful sellers above the current range as well as buyers above 5.11, meaning that the higher end needs a small bump :)

If you want to properly counter proof him then show unsolds at 5.22 refs+ and that those shouldnt be included in the range

1. Five Ref is still in the range.

2. If the Keys are sold instantly, it would mean that the price was damn low. It appears as a quicksell.

So what we would need here, and what this website generally struggles with is a standard of proof, that has some statistical merit. It's fine to show counter examples, but we need a normalized ratio of data where the counterexamples don't represent a standard deviation outside the norm in terms of volume of data....is this site equipped with that....not really.

No, 5 ref is included in the current range. This new range is an exactly the same one, except it covers trades at 5.33 as well.

"about a week now time to bump price"

Why are you saying this? A price change should only be suggested if the market has changed - which might be the case, haven't checked proof yet. Either way, it's unnecessary to say this.

And it really makes it seem like you still got the intention to raise keys and make metal worthless.

He said that because there should be 1 week between two accepted key suggestions.

As much as I like the fact that this might slow down this whole inflation (if there even is a rule), my point still stands. Opening a suggestion right after he's allowed to do so again still makes it seem like longs goal is still the same. Raising key prices. I don't care what arguments he put up since the ban he got for his absolutely pathetic behaviour (we've all seen that comment), I am 100% sure his goals are still the same. Go ahead an ban me for some time if this is off topic. Can't take backpack.tf seriously anymore anyway. Thanks for the reply by the way :)

Going to be honest here. Why wasn't Longs suggestion accepted last time? 5-5.33 is very reflective of the market, and has been for two weeks straight now.

Get this accepted and leave Long be, sure he's a moron at times but this price suggestion is accurate and that's all that should matter on this site.

It was quite obvious thats 5.33 trades were happening but not enough to be included.

Along with people spamming somewhat old "proof" that the lower range shouldnt be changed it wasnt accepted. It's been a week and there is no counterproof atm since raged traders can't copy old proof as "counter proof"

Well well well. Dude with 600+ keys requesting a price increase again...

Wonder what services they had to offer to the people responsible for those apparent trade evidence history

Shouldn't matter how many keys or if he has none, thing is he has the proof to back up his claims :)

This isn't legitimate counterproof, nor is it relevant to the suggestion.

Upvote - this is really sad , the backpack.tf community doens't want to accept the fact that keys are indeed rising and instead of accepting it , they downvote any vote that tries to rise the price with the intention of dropping the key's price. Sad.

Agreed, then they complain at why it was accepted not realizing that it's because of people like them vote on keys have been generally ignored lol

^ Yeah, they can't accept it and instead try to find a scapegoat. Sad and infuriating.

We all know what will happen once bp.tf changes the prices. "Look bp.tf changed it to 5-5.33! Selling mine at 5.44 now."

Bp.tf has staggered at 5-5.11 refs and sales at 5.33 have been occurring for a while now.

Bp.tf also staggered around the 4.33-4.66 refs as long was banned and admins couldnt accept half baked proof from suggestions and keys already hit the 5 ref mark.

Truth is keys are going up nothing is gonna stop that lol

Derpeh you basically just proved his point 2 scrap of profit, that's how this key madness started.

His point was that bp.tf somewhat dictates the price of keys...etc Im simply saying that there are points in time where bp has been unchanged for a while yet keys have still been increasing.

Main reason for keys going up is steam hammering down on carders (no more cheap keys), steam market (why sell on op when it's easier and higher priced on the market) and idlers (people that use sandbox for a weekly 30+ref buy keys and sell for money, basically money from just turning your computer on)

people do it pretty much as they see these suggestions so you probably won't have to wait for bp.tf to accept

Yes.. And?

Backpack.tf is a website where prices reflect the prices IN THE COMMUNITY - We CANNOT CHOOSE which items we want to update or which one we dont!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10795851/

take in 8 seconds. I couldnt even finish my comment :'(

The problem is right here:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10730638 <<< Dude seling for 5 refined

http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/191595 <<< This guy adds

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/191595 <<< And here is his backpack, it's a freaking alt account made to harvest keys. (Note: he has only achievement items, metal, and a bud (+2 annoying stranges) that is not really believeable they were gathered.

This is actually the reason to why keys are going up, those people only intend to have the keys for BP value or to sell

(Guessing Long has some alts too, considering he has a private BP now)

http://steamrep.com/profiles/76561198042823837

That long's rep, alts are all listed in steamrep, pretty well known fact ahaha

Allow me to bring this to your attention:

http://i.imgur.com/l9d7r4i.png

Yes, he just changed his name.

http://steamcommunity.com/id/long218/

Insta-Down vote from me.

Sorry what?

Link #1 - very old image, he was already temporarily banned from making suggestions for that.

Link #2 - I don't even know what you're trying to show here, that he changed his name? Is that a crime now?

Essentially, you're saying you're downvoting a good suggestion because you're offended over something he said?

that was too obviously sarcastic, everyone made him mad because everyone was blaming the pin on him just because he actually dares to post proof and reflect the actual key to ref trading.

Not knowingly, that's why steamrep didn't give him a scammer tag. And he isn't fully trade banned, so he won't get a scammer tag therefore neither. And now please stay on topic.

Actually I saw these chats with "Andy" or someone like that and he was bragging that buying carded keys is a great profit. So it was fully knowingly.

Just to make facts straight.

http://forums.steamrep.com/threads/76561198042823837-%E2%98%A3long218-s-buds-for-28-keys%E2%98%A2.25259/

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1484-regarding-the-welfare-of-backpacktf-%E2%98%A3long218%E2%98%A2/

It is explained on both topics.

You may tell us why the price of Keys can't change anymore.

didn't know im so famous. and cheesy dude is a prick for caution tagged me solely because I had 24 alts and not because I already provide proof that I did not know the unusual was hijacked.

http://puu.sh/2TegM.jpg

My gosh, what morons. Most of them are the same people who keep saying "omg Long is key manipulator" and "why are keys suggestions accepted with negative score manipulation" and "He's just trying to get more profit by raising keys!"

That last quote is the best. Especially since Long is trade restricted.

Yes, this is off-topic. Go ahead and warn me, cleverpun. I've been a bad boy.

he won't warn you, you are a donator of 20$ ,, he can't warn you

Anyway, you got a comment with upvotes ! be happy :D and long is almost all times wrong, today he is right and you are getting upvotes, is the world ending or something ?

She can warn me... she's warned me in the past. Why don't you look up the donator benefits sometime? There's nothing in it that says "If you donate $20 we won't warn you under any circumstances."

In fact, here, have a link. http://backpack.tf/donate

and he/she warned me before too(1$ donator :P), warning are like worthless as people will continue to argue and spam key suggestion, they can't grasp the fact that keys are increasing, but still !! you got a comment with upvotes ! be happy :D

This is completely irrelevant to the suggestion

Upvote. I made a 5.33 trade just now, because I needed some metal: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10796490

... and sold 7 within 20 minutes, no bumping: http://i.imgur.com/j2XDAUa.png

My first 5.33 sale, btw, was 3 weeks ago on April 23rd: http://i.imgur.com/M3QsNhF.png [19 keys for 101.33 ref] It's easy to sell at 5.33 and has been for weeks.

I know it should rise and the proof is sufficient. I just don't know if the mods will still accept this, they sometimes have accepted bad suggestions and rejected good ones.

And I don't want to make my proof thing ratio worse, heheh.

the irony in your name.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10774036 and lol.

Lol it's better to buy the keys from mann co store than from other ppl. Downvote.

How is spending ~$1.70 better than $2.50?

1.85* :D Yea, Mistook euros for usd. A key costs 1.99eu in mann co store so i kinda though spending those 15 cents ain't to bad thus it's a guarantee you won't get cammed :D

You won't get scammed from the steam market.

The market is $2.30 - 2.40 (still cheaper)

-------------

About the key sugestion, the proof is good. I had a key banking trade, and was easy to sell and buy. Tried it on bazaar, no one bought keys.

If this is your opinion, then please do your crying at the Mann. Co store, not here. If you haven't noticed, this is a place where we buy from OTHER PEOPLE.

Actually, 5 - 5.22 would be a better range.

Tried selling keys for 5.33 each all day, had no buyers.

Hardly sold over 14 keys for 5.22 each.

We don't make a new price because you didn't have success.

Long showed a ton of confirmed sales at 5.33 Ref.

Well keys doesn't seem to go for 5.33 anymore? When I needed 10 keys for my new unusual, I found loadsome keys for 5.22 each. Even for 5.11.

Well, I won't sweat it, I won't find any proof, and I won't want to argue about pointless key prices, that won't change anything, no matter how many dislikes this is gonna get, it's still gonna get accepted.

These don't need to be raised their high enough as it is.

3 key sold now for 5 ref each. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10800880

5 Ref is within the new range.

Probably won't be within the range after this though.

I sold 20 keys for 5.22 ref each the other day and I have started selling for 5.33 because it's actually not that hard.

5.33 - http://puu.sh/2TkI1/f8297eec32.png

5.22:

http://puu.sh/2TkIE/c576556b32.png

http://puu.sh/2TkJ9/e33fdf8f9e.png

http://puu.sh/2TkJw/fe903b4616.png

http://puu.sh/2TkK2/08857cb306.png (47 ref for 9 keys. That's 5.22 each)

http://puu.sh/2TkL7/ee39a043b1.png

It's easy to sell keys at these prices.

impossible sell for 5.33. Need proof? take proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10787008

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10647987

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10802481

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10791238

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10694854

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10617201

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10800143

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10779694

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10791309

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10799791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783673

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685146

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10800421

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10789698

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10782715

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10656442

Nice day

The trades you showed are:

- Not really old

- Already sold(!)

- Not 5.33 Ref (6 Ref etc.)

Interesting. It doesn't mean that a trader didn't sell an item just because nobody posted a comment on his trade. Also, if more than one item is avaible, the trade will remain unclosed.

no need old, price of keys up very fast. U can sell ocassional for 5.33 (forever :genius: people take bad deals)

...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10787008 New trade; 5.22 Ref; Out of stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10647987 6 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10802481 5.33 Ref; 1 hour old; No Keys in BP

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10791238 5.33 Ref; Closed; Multiple avaible

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606 5.33 Ref; Bot

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10694854 5.66 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10617201 5.66 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10800143 Yourself 5.33 Ref!?; 3 hours old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10779694 5.33 Ref; 1 day old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10791309 5.33 Ref; 15 hours old; Out of stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10799791 5.33 Ref; 3 hours old; ; May sold some

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10783673 5.33 Ref; 21 hours old; Sold some

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10685146 5.33 Ref; Bot

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10800421 5.33 Ref; Closed, Mulitple avaible

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10789698 5.66 Ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10782715 5.33 Ref; 21 hours old; One comment

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10656442 5.33 Ref; Sold 35

Long has a lot of confirmed sales at 5.33, I disproved your bad counterproof.

Yes, im triying sell for 5.33 and is impossible, most example?

you look nervous, take it easy. Proof its Proof, accept it

I disproved you, deal with it.

Sold 47 keys in just over 24 hours from this trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10796490

Maybe you should try bumping your trade more than once every 19 hours (lol).

The problem is not that backpack.tf is increasing it's price.. the problem is that they keep on relying on outpost to check new prices..

Everyone on Outpost overprices, stop using it as a reference

I agree, for this im not acept this changes on prices

Isn't his name provocative again...?

It's the same story as with Key manipulator thing.. obviously he wants to piss everyone off, good job.

And also this wasn't 1 week..

Last suggestion was accepted 7 days ago.

7 days = 1 week?

No, I'm the suspicious stalker.

I'm really sorry for trying to make a normal conversation. Too bad that you don't want to understand that your counterproof was bad and that I disproved it.

Edit: I like how you flag every single of my comments for no logical reason.

my proof is acceptable and correct, Mmmm u have 70 keys.. now undertand all ;)

im continue bump my trade with ur "new price" and no take any offers....

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10800143

1. I disproved you, you are acting like a little child by not accepting this fact.

2. I haven't bought 9001 Keys with metal nor money, I make no profit with Key:Ref trade since I'm NOT doing them. I'm only trading with unusuals.

3. Get your facts straight before you want to join a big discussion.

@SantoS up there

Your trade is literally three hours old. You're selling at the high end of the range. You should wait several days until claiming counterproof. Not everything sells instantly, not even currency.

Volpii, I've been following you through this thread, I gotta say I feel sorry for what you've gotta put up with.

Now, to address the proof itself, it's certainly bulky. I'd like to contact Sneeza and get some sort of closed-trade search function, because as it was pointed out above, it's possible to make fake key trades between alts, and I've seen people do it and admit it. However, as that's unrealistic as of now, I have to reluctantly agree.

I'd have to say I'm neutral here. Yeah, I'm another one who doesn't exactly like the key prices but I know going on a riot or cussing streak won't fix it. The proof here looks solid, as far as I know anyways, but a somewhat open range can mean some good (Could be wrong, correct me if so). Just my two cents.

Scrap.tf has updated its Buy/Sell prices.

Current Sell Price: 5.11 refined

Current Buy Price: 5.33 refined

Reverse the prices; for some reason scrap.tf isn't showing it in the right format.

http://puu.sh/2Tr8T.png Just to show.

I don't quite understand what you mean, but your picture is showing you selling a key to scrap.tf for 5.11 Ref, just as I listed.

Ah shit, I'm thinking the wrong way :I

I understand under "Current Sell Price" the price which the bot is selling his Keys for, not what a trader would get for his Key.

Sorry for that.

Yeah no problem, It can get confusing depending on which view you take, both can be viewed as correct.

The main thing that everyone overlooks is not how many raw keys a person has. Sure, long has 642 keys. Everyone shits on him for that. Yet, everyone overlooks a fact: items that are calculated in keys are affected the same way. Sometimes when I look in my BP, I see a random 2-3 ref increase, when in fact I only have 2-3 keys on me most of the time. The increase comes from items.

Let's look at high price items. A TC used to cost more than a Last Breath. Now, 1:1? Are you crazy? The thing is, when keys were 2.66, a Last Breath (2 keys) is around 5.33; at the time a TC is 5.33-5.66 ref. Now? You can buy a TC with a 6 ref with probably 5 adds in a minute, and no adds in 3 days if you're trying to buy a Last Breath. The price didn't change at all in their respective prices, but in terms on keys, TCs dropped hard; in terms of ref, Last Breath rose like crazy.

The market changes, that's how an econmy works.

Outpost and other offline traders will always sell keys for higher than what backpack.tf says their value is. This is because they are currency and desired. It is also because there is no large time investment to sell them the way there is with trade server hopping to sell them.

These may be the actual ranges they are selling for on outpost and other trade sites but using them for proof is foolish because they will always be higher than the listed value. Continuing to use them for proof only causes the continuous upward spiral of prices.

Yes, the proof is good. Yes, the proof is correct. But raising the backpack.tf listed price is only going to cause them to raise their price as well in a so far never ending cycle. This seems to be an item value backpack.tf should not be adjusting.

Hey man there's a (downward) Bill's price vote just waiting to blow a giant hole in your theory about outpost.

It's been proven by base64 that outpost is not more expensive than other sites. I do 100% of my buying and selling there, I find good deals and I resell at good prices.

Bills are not a real currency. They are a high teir hat that people try to collect but as far a currency, not so much. Outpost prices are higher than trade server prices. Didn't say other sites. I state all trading sites vs trade server hopping.

For keys - Trade server prices will always be near or below priceguide prices. Trading site prices will always be higher than priceguide prices. Because of the desire for the items and the time investment.

And I'm not even gonna touch price manipulation for personal profit which opens another can of worms.

If backpack.tf doesn't update key prices they stay somewhat stable. Every time backpack.tf updates key prices they also change on trade sites. It's time for Backpack.tf to stop updating key prices and see what happens to them in a couple months if backpack doesn't keep raising it's stated value.

Outpost prices are not higher than trade server prices.

Look at tf2finance on the day it switched from mostly outpost to mostly RAWR trades (April 23) ... no change in average price. See also tf2finance.com/2012_11 which soundly debunks the "outpost highballers" myth.

> Trading site prices will always be higher than priceguide prices.

This is simply incorrect. Look at recent buds suggestions, when they were on the downward slide from 27 keys to 21. Outpost proof appeared in every suggestion.

> If backpack.tf doesn't update key prices they stay somewhat stable

Completely wrong. Vincent has debunked this. And base64 has shown that bp.tf trails price increases, it doesn't lead them.

Trade server prices are based off of in server !pc (price check) which is based off of backpack.tf . This makes people sell at the max every time eliminating any need to sell lower for the sake of speed and time.

I vote that Long has to sell all 642 of his keys for 5.33 before raising the price.

It is true that 5 ref is becoming rare, I'd even upvote 5.11-5.33. Seen unsuccessful 5 ref buyers everywhere. Sorry for the lack of links, I will put them here when I notice them on my journey through outpost.

Long is trade-banned. He can't sell keys for metal.

Shouldn't it be shown on his profile that he is tradebanned then? I know that he is, but i just don't understand how someone can be tradebanned when their trade status is shown to be green.

Also, yes the demand for keys are very high. I've seen sellers go for 5.22-5.44, but it's mostly 5.22 that seems to be the most popular right now. Even if there are some successful 5.33's i am not sure if they are always successful or not. Tragic that most people only want to keep on and keep on increasing the price for the key. But hey, it's the economy. Little one can do without proof of that the key actually will drop.

For me, I have not yet seen sellers of 5.44.

I dunno, but I think buyers are less hyped than usual.

I have seen sellers of 5.44, But almost all of them that i have seen are unsuccesssful(or proofless that they sold for the actual price successfully). Sadly, most buyers are desperate or impatient when it comes to that the key went from around 1-2 refined to the whooping 5 refined. Yes, people are to damn impatient these days, it's tragic. But yes, the demand for the key is batshit-insane high. When the Wilson Weave and the Ham Shank became tradeable? I checked most trades on outpost and i saw that people demanded a key for their own Genuine Wilson Weave and Genuine Ham Shank, some even wanted two keys for their Genuine Ham Shank. But the thing is that most of them (if any at all) hasn't been sold for more than a few refined!

I love when people don't care about proof and rely only on how many keys the suggestor have.

and as far as I know, there is nothing wrong with private backpack lol. what scam can you pull with private bp anyway.

as far as scams are concerned you being an alleged thug should know better then anyone.

However I agree with the price, I managed to sell about10ish keys for 5.33 yesterday within 15-30 min on a trade server.

oh boy oh boy !!! here comes cleverpun !!!!!

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1484-regarding-the-welfare-of-backpacktf-%E2%98%A3long218%E2%98%A2/#entry15867

It seems like 5.33 is a bit above the range of where buyers and sellers agree, so why not 5-5.22 or 5.11-5.22? 5.33 seems like more of a jump than is needed.

If the fact that the price of keys have not risen in "market value" to be more than two scrap above backpack.tf's prices in over a week doesn't prove that backpack.tf's prices are what Outpost bases their sales on rather than the other way around (as it should be), then I don't know what is.

I doubt that will happen, the best that we all hope for is that keys stay at 5-5.11 ref range, that way all the highballers will stop selling keys for 5.66 ref or 6 ref.

http://i.imgur.com/lZNsyRc.png

Was almost beginning to think 4.66 was impossible.

If everyone buying @ 5.0, 5.1 is reselling doesn't that count as price manipulation and therefore the sell value of the price you are suggesting is invalid?

I also noticed you fail to mention any (reasonable) buyers below 5.0, they count in the minimum range too.

There's no need to mention any buyers below 5.0, because it's not even in the suggested range.

I think this is a very fair price. i tend to sell keys at a nice 5.22, bu i've seen them go for 5.33 and 5.11 so i think this is a very reasonable change.

Why would make an item that is $2.50 5.33 its silly. The tf2 economy is broke for this very reason.

my friend Metalogic is quitting because of this same reason

the economy is broke

Your friend Metalogic is quitting a great FPS because of key prices going up?

Just play the game for gun lol

*fun

Refined is .35 USD, I don't see what you're getting at, exactly.

umm.............don't report me or do anything to me

but here is a guy selling a key for 4.33 ref

again don't report me if this is wrong

and please don't dislike my post

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10365160

He is buying a key not selling and that post is 2 weeks old...

sorry didn't see

please ignore my post abt the key

People are selling and buying for higher anyways, he is simply updating the price on bp.

if people were not buying for higher he would be able to increase the price lol

No. People are selling keys for 5.33 for the following reason.

1) They don't know prices.

2) They Highball

3) They're greedy (Ahem, #keysforlife

4) They're in need of metal

I've seen people buying keys for 5.11, and that's a good price, I've put up trades for 5.11, and get many offers for it. But if it goes up to 5.33, then people will start selling them for 5.66! And the price will go up AGAIN! And this thing will loop until everyone stops buying and the people with 600 keys are left in the dark with no buyers. #TF2 economy in a nutshell

> if it goes up to 5.33, then people will start selling them for 5.66! And the price will go up AGAIN!

And what is your point? They also need to sell for their price. Selling =/= Sold

5.33 is a decent price for a key. Try to find a seller selling one for less. If all the sellers are selling at 5.33+ I think that is the norm, and therefore you don't know prices. Considering I sell for 5.33 and buy for 5.22 I don't see the problem here. And your theory is wrong. As long as keys are a currency there will be buyers and when they reach the price ceiling the prices freefall. There will always be buyers. Also the bp.tf price doesn't affect the Outpost price. Gets your facts right, learn your economy.

Mkay.

Try raising the keys to 6 refined. See how many buyers you get then. My theory is that if keys keep rising, and rising, and rising then people will stop buying. 5 refined metal is a lot now-a-days. I've got around 55 refined, and that took a long time to get. People sell keys at 5.11, and the prices are high enough as it is. Fact of the matter, prices go up, less people will buy, maybe not a HUGE amount, but some people will stop buying. But will that stop it from going up to 7 refined?

It's hilarious because some people have actually managed to sell for 6 ref. And what you don't seem to understand is that a key is not just a key. People don't buy them because they want to unbox. A key is now a form of currency and people buy them because they want buds and bills and unusuals. A demand for keys doesn't just drop off, and the keys coming onto the market are nowhere near plentiful enough to meet the demand. At this point they may even be being used faster than they are being produced so of course the price will go up as long as we consider them a currency not a tool. Despite keys doubling in ref over the past year I haven't stopped buying. I don't think many people have because as long as they can flip sell there is a profit to be made, hence why the theoretical "price ceiling" for keys is so damn fuzzy. Keys will most likely never go up to 7 ref as Valve have set the absolute stopping point at 7.11 ref (keys are $2.49 in the Mann Co. Store).

Hmm. Thanks for the constructive opinion, it's better than "omfg u fag stahp complayneng" I understand your point, keys are mostly used as a currency and not something to unbox with. But another thing, "Valve have set the absolute stopping point at 7.11 ref". Does valve even control the TF2 trading economy?

The Mann Co Store dictates the max prices.

In reply to the comment below this, there is no cap, even if Mann Co. sells at $2.49. Metal is a dynamic currency as any, and has dropped in money value before. As metal is devalued due to the constant injection of it and the lower incentive to buy it for conversion to keys (as keys rise), the price will drop. Hypothetically keys could be 249 ref.

Sorry, I meant to edit that saying based on current ref value ($0.35) but I completely forgot.

He's tradebanned, he can't do anything with them.

Keys have already slowed down, They might rise another ref, but I don't see them going much higher than 6.

Actually, I don't think its all greed, I think it's half greed, and half....logic? People sell keys because, well, they are in high demand. I have sold a few keys at 5.33 and at rare times, 5.44. But that doesn't mean they should just keep going UP and UP and UP. This economy is broken.

Yeah it can be the prise is rasing, and people is selling for more and more and more, but now this must stop cant you Guys see that this wont stop, the Price will raise and raise until the Price is 20 ref you Guys should open your eyes and start to set the Price Down so we can get a system Again my option and i hope you Guys actoly will think over this.

I legitimately loled at your response xD

Just so you know, swearing adds no point to your argument rather it just shows how immature you are with the ability to talk in a civil manner. you might want to try underlining [u] and [/ u] with out the space instead.

I hope i helped

Do you have any proof or source for Steam cracking down on idlers? I know about the carders and Steam Market, those are legimate reasons, but have never heard of them recently doing something about idling.

As in idlers cause a massive inflow of metal into the market and they start bidding up the prices of keys, to sell for real money. They dont really care how much they are paying because it's technically "free" money. (Alot of metal chasing a keys) the premium upgrade from steam helped idlers work alot easier as you dont need a credit card to trade now.

There is that and also because you cant really do anything with metal (who crafts hats now) so it gets stuck in the mannconomy for a while where as keys are regularly used to unbox.

Keys always 2.5$ from store, alot of metal chasing them so metal goes down in value

Ah I misread. I thought you said Steam was hindering idlers now, which if it were true would probably cause the price of keys in metal to either stay the same, or even decline a bit (!!).

You know this site is just reporting on prices right? And if it didn't report the correct price then that would be misinformation. How are "assholes like us" making them go up? By selling them for a profit? Nobody has to buy them. For making key suggestions? They wouldn't be accepted if the admins didn't 100% think that they were correct. Don't comment next time.

How do you even know there are only 2-4 thousand people using that site?

The moment you got a ban, I'll be happy. We don't need people who don't contribute in any way.

Basically alot of metal chasing keys and keys have always been 2.5$ from the store so metal loses value.

http://tf2finance.com/2013_03/ <---- read this might explain a few things ;)

hope i helped

Back then, there was always idlers so i don´t think that will be a reason and for the keys on steam community market is already a petition going on to remove them.

Idlers work much mor efficiently now thanks to the premium update as they dont need a credit card to trade =_=

i know someone that gets a free weekly 30-40 ref and he could probably get more if he wanted to

key seller for 5 ref on trade server http://prntscr.com/150jtf

5 ref is in-range

Ha. Nice proof , someone saying they're selling a key for 5 refs . That's like me saying i'm selling a burning TC for Bills and therefor a Burning TC should be worth a Bills...

i agree with the suggestion because a lot of people traiding keys for 5.33 and the range is very fine to me, but also peoples trading keys not on outpost, and not the same price on outpost

Don't get me wrong , i totally agree with this price for the key - i think this should have been accepted ages ago , since when this gets accepted, just a day after its gonna need to be updated again.

Right.

I ref is $0.35 and this key is 5.33 ref which is only $ 1.8655.

That is not right. It should be 6 ref which is $2.1 and is still less than what normally the community market sells.

paypal sells for less that 2.1

Community market prices are odd as 1 real dollar =/= 1 steam dollar. It's more like 1 real to 0.70 steam.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10825575

it was.... fast))

Valve needs to start limiting multiple alt farming accounts, this should stop key's value from rising.

i'm sort of with you. definitely that valve could and should stop metal farming.

i don't agree that metal farming is actually flooding the market with metal ( if you care to read a long explanation of this, see my tumblr post proving that metal is not flooding the market, at all: http://one-crate-per-week.tumblr.com/post/49723737022/week-11 )

however i do think it's possible (quite probable even) that the people actually paying metal for keys are the ones doing the farming on a large scale. they may represent a small part of the economy but are the most likely not to care about how much keys actually cost.

we'll both probably get warned by cleverpun... sigh

for over a week now, tf2finance has been showing 5.11 (there was a brief period of 5.14, then the service crashed, but the latest data is showing we're back to 5.11)

if 5.11 is the median than 5 ref trades are happening enough to warrant the 5 ref low range. but it also means that 5.33 may be too much

i don't want to sound like a broken record, but clearly the addition of popular trade servers to tf2finance at the end of april has proven what traders have been saying on these key suggestions for months now: outpost does not represent the entire trading community.

i don't know how to do this, but trade servers need to be included in the proof for key prices. using outpost only, to me, is allowing the price to be set based on only part of the market (also the part of the market that's easiest to assemble into proof)

for the record, i've always considered tf2finance as an important component of key price suggestions - maybe not as proof, but as an indicator of where to look for proof/counterproof at least - so please don't lump me in with someone who only uses it when the data supports my comments - feel free to review my past key suggestions and my comments

perhaps long, since he has nothing better to do with his life and can't trade anyway, could start idling in trade servers and collecting proof of key trades on those servers?

corruption of the people because they want price to be low and benefit themselves. very legit indeed.

as apposed to corruption of people that want the price to be high and benefit themselves. very legit indeed.

except mine is based on proof and your is based on opinion.

The majoriy's opinion to be precise, but fuck democracy right? And tbh proof is becoming quite meaningless seeing as the people selling keys always want to sell it for slightly higher than what it is on bp.tf, so the only reason the price keeps going up is these suggestions keep getting accepted despite what the majority want. Suprising people are so dense not to have realised that yet, tut tut.

the people have problem with other people reflect on the people's actions ? seem legit.

almost all the people that vote no on here would still go on and buy keys at the suggested price because they need the keys(which is one of the main reason on why price rise) and that other traders prefer keys over metal.

Might want to work on your grammar there if you want to make sense, first part didn't. And that's no reason why the price should increase on here. People buy at the higher prices suggested on here because the only sellers are selling at this price, but they are only selling at this price because they want profit over the current price. That's a stupidly flawed system, the price shouldn't increase this quickly just because of people selling higher than the current price (which is normal and happens all the time in any trade so increasing the price because of that wouldn't be representative of the base price).

YES AND WHAT THEN? THIS WEBSITE WAS MADE WITH THE INTENTION OF MIRRORING THE PRICES OF ITEMS ON THE MARKET NOT CONTROL THEM!

YOU SAYING " THIS IS A CYCLE" IS NO REASON FOR YOU TO DOWNVOTE THIS !

the problem is, sellers will always go above bp.tf prices when it comes to keys. As soon as all the sellers do this, the buyers give up on getting lower prices, and the bp.tf price goes up. The problem is, backpack.tf IS controlling the price, even if they dont know it.

What you people dont understand is that this is currency! This isnt a promotional item , this isnt a dropped item, this isnt an unboxed item , this isnt a strange item ect. .. Unlike Buds / Bills / Max's head - who's prices fluxuate up and down this one's only RISES , get that into your thick head! This is CURRENCY of TF2!

Want to calm down?

You can type exactly like this and your point will be the same.

Now, saying keys can only go up is not correct. At this point there has been no event to cause keys to devalue, as opposed to buds and bill's, but that's not to say it can't happen. For example, if carders were to make a resurgence, key prices would plummet.

The reason this won't be accepted is because recently someone posted something almost identical to this, it had 5-5.33 and was DECLINED because of the large price margin. This one will be also so don't get too cocky.

The problem is that Long posted this, and his stuff seems to always get accepted. I haven't checked out the other key post, but I don't think it had as much evidence as this one... I disagree with this price though, and I hope for the best

Watch your language.

He's been banned several times. But the admin's seem to have a sweet spot for him.

It's because he ups the key price for their precious backpacks. Who doesn't want to make a few hundred dollars profit at the expense of everyone else?

I need agree with this price, nobody could give counterproof, this don't need more days up.

I saved this if you think deleting your comment, you deserve to be banned for life from here.

http://i.imgur.com/NwToSqX.png

"I'm just going to boycott backpack" You deserve be banned...

Why do you care? Even if I am banned, I'm still boycotting the site, and a ban will help my cause, because I will have no choice. Feel free to join me.

You are so funny :P

I'm not fan of Long or of the rise of price, You are being childish

You're just a troll.

If anybody's getting banned, it's for this useless cluster of hate over here. I can say with fair certainty that you're both getting several warnings and that you need to stop.

You know that most downvoters vote by opinion and not by proof?

Ultimately off topic. If you'd like to discuss backpack.tf's acceptance policy, please use the forums.

I'm still thinking the price of keys should stay where they are in this range. The only reason people sell beyond 5.11 ref is because they are greedy, and want more ref, that's why people actually buy at that price because no one rarely sells for low....Off Topic: I find it funny that admins only seem to moderate key suggestions, and nothing else...weird :D.

I liked it better when they were 3.33 when I started trading.

IT was probably 3.33 because metal and hats and stuff were in a very short supply, thus keys were less (Since their used as a currency, most of the time) But 5.33 these days is simply ridiculous.

I saw so many other suggestions being moderate and sadly but people are selling keys for 5.33 ref because buyers pay the price.

My God. Over 2200 votes.

I think 5.11 and 5.22 should be in the price but 5.33 is still highballing most places.

5.33 is very hard to sell at, I've sold 11 keys in 1-2 weeks for 5.22-5.33 ref, there is very little demand. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416278

The current price range is good. If you keep up making these damn suggestions, higher prices will follow.

For instance, it's currently hard to sell for 5.33 ref. If you increase the 'PRICE GUIDE' range to include 5.33 ref, people will start to buy for 5.33 and so on.

Obvious feedback loop is obvious, leave the god damn price alone, stop giving long (was knowingly using carded keys to profit, a great trader to have associated with your site, thumbs up to whichever admin decided not to perma-ban the guy) the gratification, stop throwing fuel on the fire.

Just leave it for crying out loud, iz gud dil.

He wants the price to go up, thats the thing people are talking about. I agree with you, but if Long keeps on getting good votes, the prices WILL go up until extreme amounts.

I have trouble selling at 5.33 ref. Downvote

how long was you even online during the past 15 hours.

and 15 hours lol.

This is a currency. They need to move fast like always. And 5.33 is just not happening.

First of all if you want it to move fast you don't sell it at high end.

Second of all there are hundred of other sellers so the chance of you getting pick is slightly less even if the demand is high.

Third of all, maybe someone added you but you were not available so buyers go get another online seller.

You're just sounding desperate now bud, very sad.

The question as to whether 5.33 should be included in range has been brought up throughout this suggestion. Prior to the server crash, tf2finance was showing a stable 5.11 average. I know a lot of people don't like it being used as proof, but it has significantly increased the number of trades monitored and it's a valuable resource for demonstrating the activity on trade servers. Combined with the repeated comments that 5.33 can be a difficult price to sell at, it indicates that 5-5.22 would be a welcome price, but 5-5.33 is too questionable, especially while votes are at odds with the suggestion.

Closing.