Suggestion: Bill's Hat at 7.8–8 keys

Too many unsold white/black ones at 9 keys which and normal are constantly being sold at a range of 7.8-8. Also plenty of painted bills selling for below normal price and some even goes for the normal bills price!

more proof of these getting sold at 7.8 ?

People selling below 7.8

yea... that is not a lot of proof with such a popular item that is also a currency.

Omg, your score is positive O_O

Dislikes are fun! :D

hey how do you view the number of downvotes vs. the number of upvotes?

That would be nice.

Pretty sure they meant the comment not the suggestion. I don't think you can now until it either gets accepted or rejected. Besides that only the admins can see it.

You can't view them until the suggestion is over or u could just vote with whatever is winning for free rep

You know what else is a currency? Keys. Also Earbuds and Max Heads. Lately all of those have been changed (wonder by who...).

And all of which have PLENTY of proof. So theres no need to be snide.

It's kinda hard to find proof seeing as more than 80% of them are painted...

provides proof of at least half of the 20% ?

EDIT: I mean around 90% are painted.

And YaPA to the left is a graph of the paint usage it has. Slid your cursor on them and you get the paint name. But that little pie that doesn't have a name is unpainted. It's probably tags or something that's 'original'

http://stats.tf/item/126/Bill%27s_Hat

70,1% orginal

29,9% modified

again

162,282 copies of this item exist.

An Extraordinary Abundance of Tinge

10029 (26.6%)

10029 - 26.6

x - 100

x= ~37703

so 37703 Bills are painted

37703/162282= ~23% Bill's are painted

and that little "pie" is other paint :)

http://prntscr.com/157v6z

that wonder by who made me loose it

http://trade.tf/price/126/6

Trade.tf has been showing that this item is trading for less. Pleasant is right to make this suggestion. Bill's have been selling for under eight. Look at how many are unsold. It can't really be a currency if it is unsold. Buyers don't see a difference between this item and any other. Upvote

I understand that a lot of you Bills holders are not pleased with this but neither were earbud holders.

the interesting thing about bills/painted bills is that they are accepted as 8 keys for unpainted and more for painted when used as currency on other items.

now for most item trades you would say overpay, but where bill's are concerned, that is not really true - they are just barely outside the "pure" territory because they *are* sellable for real world funds (i.e. someone cashing out can take keys, buds, bill's and be fairly successful in turning those into RL currency)

so it's an interesting conundrum since i also have seen bill's selling for under 8 keys unpainted, but it always feels like a quicksell to me.

i'm neutral on this one.

edit: which is a shame, 'cause my vote would have been the 2112th one :)

quick someone!!!

The view of bills, buds, maxs selling well for rl is based on the perception of it being a currency only. Just perception. If people wouldn't accept them as currency, just keys, than they would not sell as well for rl money. Part of the "demand" for any of these currency items is based on it being a currency and not on its desirability. To me the bud is kooler than the max.

everything about pixels having real world value is perception, dude ;)

I meant perception as game currency but yeah.

All, or much, of the perception about keys/bills/buds/maxs predates November 2012. I find it interesting that a bunch of young people can't adapt to change. I'm not that young so.

http://trade.tf/deals/search/Sell/All/Bill%27s%20Hat/all/1

derpin look at all the 7 and 7.6 and 7.8

Those got snatched up immediatley.

Look, I have been attempting to sell a bills myself for 4 hours at 7.8

the current price is offer.

Snatched up my foot.

Hey do you know how to view the current upvotes and downvotes this suggestion has?

I don't. I never did know.

It has been 3 hours, it's not that old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10811810

Those got snatched up immediatley.

was replying to this.

4 hours actually

is a long past immediately.

got any more links like this? (unsold for under 7.8)

The bills you were selling for 7.8 seems to be gone.

@Judgement, dumped it in WH at 7.68 keys.

upvote, my bills for 7,6 keys (3rd link of normal ones) got sold ~8 hours after i listed it. so snatched up immediatley isnt what i would call it...

I've seen key and bud suggestions get accepted with less proof. I see enough proof here.

Colors don't matter because you are pricing the normal price for unpainted Bill's Hats.

When you see pink/lime/team ones unsold at 8, that supports the (also provided) proof of unpainted selling below 8.

In the proof is a guy offering Bill's + 2 ref for 8 keys. Should that be excluded too, because we're pricing "Bill's hats by themselves" and not "Bill-metal bundles"?

Wait, so an unpainted Bills is the same thing as a painted Bills? Oh wait haha, no it's not. Painted bills are dropping, unpainted are stayin at 8 keys.

> Painted bills are dropping, unpainted are stayin at 8 keys.

Wait, so an unpainted Bills is the same thing as a painted Bills? Paint has value. Unpainted costs less than painted. It's not possible for unpainted to have the same market value as painted, because....

(wait for it)

an unpainted Bills is not the same thing as a painted Bills!

I personally sold two bills at 8 keys yesterday. I'd provide proof, but I accept items as payment so people here would prob call it overpay in items n shizzle even tho I charge 0% overpay in items =P

I just know they're accepted as 8 keys. So now, if we drop it, these things are gonna snowball like buds. Prepare for 6 key bills.

If you sold for items that totaled 8 keys on resale, I'd call that a sub-8-key sell.

You threw in the service of selling his items (and the loan of funds during that time) for free, when normally this service is worth 1-2 ref or more, depending on the items.

It's a very similar to throwing in 2 ref of paint for free. Bill's + something worth 2 ref for 8 keys = Bill's for less than 8 keys.

but if he's ok with payment in items then item overpay shouldn't be factored in. If he want's items and is selling his bills for 8 keys worth of items, then he still expects to get 8 keys out of the bills. Item overpay is only factored in if the seller expects over pay in items (most people do, so it's generally factored in) but if the seller specifies that they don't require an overpay then the overpay shouldn't be factored in

Actually, the price drop of buds are expected.

http://tf2finance.com/

If you looked here you'd see that they dropped around the same amount last year.

Sold 2 normal bills before I sold my orange one and I listed them at the same time and the same price.

I get all painted bills are 8 keys, it make sense for lime and pink to go for 8 keys. The item is currency and most people who want it painted have them.

Maybe just not many ppl want colored ones atm, so paints don't rise a Bill's value like nearly nobody pays extra for a painted, normal craft hat

No one seems to want painted Bills, but that doesn't mean that unpainted should be taking the hit.

http://redd.it/18loau Sold a few, 2 months old though

http://redd.it/1920yi Acquired for 8

http://redd.it/1d53p9 Added for one, unsure if painted or unpainted

http://redd.it/xwt01 (old)

http://redd.it/1cadr3 8 keys 1 ref buyer

http://redd.it/103z1o 8 keys .33 ref buyer, old

I also would like you to prove that anything below 8 is not a quicksell. Because I've seen Bill's hats move immediately if any kind is below 8 keys.

This is a downvote for me.

1st link - 2 months, a few is like 2-4

2nd link - 2 months old and as said in comments, VERY QUICK

3rd link - Unsure if painted or unpainted

4th link - 9 months old!

5th link - Buying GOLD for 8 key + 1 ref and buying normal for 8 keys. Quick as well

6th link - 7 months old...

Stop spamming the same comment on every bills suggestion

Its a perfectly valid and noteworthy comment though

cleverpun, how do you feel about this trade? I need a mod's opinion...(we)

I think that we need to restructure paint pricing, not change prices of base items

I actually agree with cleverpun on this, i dont think the price of the normal bills should drop, but to charge 2 keys extra for a black or white bills... that can be lowered

it's already lowered.

I still do have some proofs of unpainted ones. I'm just showing you the sellers of painted bills. ie black bills for 8 keys.

Woah, i'll buy a black bills for 8 keys.

I think paint prices don't show that it fell down, it is just harder to sell a painted one for much higher

I had better proof than you and I was shot down.

First saying that "9 months yolo" made me sick. how could you say something like that to a legendary item?

I've Been buying for 7K3R and Selling for 8 K No problem in a day.

Painted ones are cancer to sell. but dont mess with unpainted ones.

Easy downvote.

And I'm sure ( more like hoping) admins wont consider quicksell price. because lower trades are surely quicksell trades. its Reselling. There were always resellers. Even "9 Months ago yolo".

i will say it again. PAINTED BILLS' Are not proofs. Paints dropped in price alot. but Normal ones are staying at 8 keys. No problem.

And a last note. you said there alot bills @8. There always were. but it also shows that anything uder 8 goes pretty fast.

"I've Been buying for 7K3R and Selling for 8 K No problem in a day."

Sooo..... why the downvote then? That is what he is showing as happening

Still. its a quick buy

And links.

Painted bills. Completely remove that.

aand some quicksells sold within a hour?

Downvote.

http://trade.tf/price/126/6

Trade.tf has been showing that the Bill's has been trending down for awhile. The price has to come down. Peasant is right, some have gone for less than 7.8.

you dont need to change something by .2, sells happen lower and higher by that amount, it really doesn't matter that much

Very large amount of traders here selling for a varied amount of prices, ranging from 7 keys for unpainted to 7 keys, 3 ref for painted. Sufficient proof http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416309

Downvoted just because unpainted bills is still 8keys no questions asked. PAINTED bills is doing down.

Anything under 8 keys is bought, anything over isnt damn easy as that.

Painted bills crisis =/= unpainted bills crisis

There are a few problems with your proof though (compiling my own thoughts and some ideas from other comments into a single comment for overview)

1) The money value of something is not relevant to its value in TF2 currency (keys, metal). If you want an example: keys have been rising in metal for ages, but only recently has the cash price for keys begun to rise. You can't use this as an argument.

2) Nor can you use painted Bill's as proof. I don't care if they are selling at 8 keys. It could mean that people don't want to pay 8 keys for the Bill's, but it could just as well mean they don't want to pay for the paint; you can't make assumptions about that. As someone else notes, it can simply be most people who want a painted Bill's already have it, which is why the value of painted Bill's is dropping (as noone wants to pay extra for a paint they don't particularly want)

3) As for the "Lots of Bill's unsold at 8 keys" - obviously. That is because there are so many Bill's on the market, there will always be a large amount unsold at 8 keys (the market price). It's harder to see all the ones that are selling at market price because the trades disappear as they are closed. Due to the sheer amount of Bill's on the market, you will also need more proof of unpainted Bill's selling below 8 keys for it to possibly accurately reflect the market.

4) Quicksell/buying trades alone don't count as proof either - you can buy a Bill's for 7.8 keys, but then I'm fairly sure you could do that half a year ago too. You'll always be able to get things below market price if you put up a buying trade.

1) Money value for Refined Metal dropped. Money value of the key stayed the same. Therefore, the Key must cost more in terms of Refined.

2) So you're saying someone would completely devalue a 1 key TS or Lime paint, not even factoring it into the sale price?

3) By this logic, this should make it nearly impossible to find any selling below market price, since they'd be bought up quickly and the trades closed.

1) My bad then. I don't cash trade myself, this is what I know from reddit/bp.tf/friends/etc. I still don't think money prices are all that relevant when setting a price for an item in TF2 currency.

2) Yes. If they just want a Bill's Hat and not a painted one, why would they pay extra for the paint? The only reason paint has value on hats is that usually you'll be lucky enough to find someone that wants that exact paint on that exact hat, and the only reason they pay "extra" for the paint is because it saves them money compared to buying hat+paint separately.

3) For items that get sold/bought a lot? Yes, definitely. Why do you think it's so difficult to find, say, links for the lower range of key prices? Because those trades get closed in seconds and then you can't find them anymore.

2) You missed my point. I was referring to the sellers mainly, who would most definitely not value their 1-key paints at nothing.

3) Again, you missed the point entirely. People are finding and posting many trades here with sellers below 8 keys, aka the current "market price". They AREN'T closed in seconds. Meaning the price must therefore be lower than 8 keys flat, yes?

First of all, i do not count painted as proof. Second I do not think 7 trades at less than 8 keys is enough proof for an item so commonly traded. Also, i have not had much trouble selling unpainted bills at 8 keys. Money is also not a good source of proof, many people will sell an item at less than it is worth when being offered money. Yes, the painted ones are dropping. Yes, people quick sell bills (and every other currency). But, having a couple quick sells and some cheap painted bills is not even close to being enough to change the bills price.

"Money is also not a good source of proof, many people will sell an item at less than it is worth when being offered money. "

Do you have any proof for this? This is thrown around quite frequently, but no one ever bothers to back up what they say. I don't know much money trading other than Refined and Keys, so for all I know you could be right. Or you could be spewing shit cleverly disguised as a sentence. I have no clue.

For example, if you look at the proof for the price drop you see people willing to sell a person a bills at 11$ ( http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9587974 ). This is true with just about everything. When people want some fast cash, instead of selling for keys, many people are willing to sell at a lower price to a person giving them cash directly to spare the hassle of selling for keys and then selling the keys or waiting for a buyer paying more in cash. I can provide more proof why cash should not be used as evidence if you want, but if you just look on outpost you see many people able to get items below market value with cash.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10646603 - Unsold painted one at 8 keys for a week

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832884 - Sold for 3 Black Paints (6 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770552 - Unsold at 8 keys for 3 days

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773492 - 2 days selling for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10767714 - Sold Gold for 8

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770104 - Selling for 7.6

"times it." Lol, you sound like a third-grader.

However true this is, it's not going to be accepted. So, as such, I'll have to stay neutral.

Anything below 8 is quicksell. Painted ones don't matter they sell for atleast 8 keys. Majority > Outliners. Downvote

Yes but still, a majority of 8 key sellers are unsold and have no interest. And when have you seen a white bill go for 8 keys?

The majority manages to sell for 8 keys. I sell these within 2 days max for 8 keys. Maybe you need more trading experience (with Bills then maybe)

But there are so many Bill's. Just because the demand is lower than the ammount of avaible ones, doesn't mean that it is worth less

I've been able to buy several black and white bills at my price of 8.25 keys as well. I totally agree that the price should go down a bit on these. Even if paint value is decreasing it doesn't matter, the base price should still be less.

People calling all sales under 8 keys a quicksell are full of shit.

No, anything that sells quick is a quicksell. His proof includes day-old trades with unsold Bill's below 8 keys.

If something sells fast, it means that the sell price is quiet low. The idea of quickselling is to get rid of an item fast, without making profit or no profit at all

I love how you are all trying to define quickselling as something other than "selling quick".

The examples provided stayed open for hours+. They did not sell fast. They were not underpriced.

If everything below current bp.tf price is a quicksell and doesn't count, then prices can never decrease. Do you see why?

"The examples provided stayed open for hours+"

So this automatically means that they are not worth their current price?

You are missing 2 points in my opinion:

1. "hours+"? So under a day , I guess? Well, if they wouldn't have sold for like 2-3 days, that would be ok, but only a few hours isn't really proof that they can not sell for this

2. There is a huge amount of Bill's out there, hence there aren't so many sells made

No, a quicksell would be closer to 7 or 6.5 keys. How dare you say painted ones don't matter. Everyone one of those painted bills sellers states the price as it has been traditionally done. 1 key for pink, lime, ts and 2 for white/black. That is standard for Bills, and yet now everyone wants to say it doesn't' matter. How convenient is that.

Yes. Yes. Finally. This needed to be done for a while now, but now a great name dares to take this on. I myself thought of doing it, then dedided I didn't have the guts. This hasn't been 8 flat for the last month, but somehow the voters here think it is. Full 100% upvote and support from me.

I`ll also upvote, here the buyers from knifeandfork:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9989357 offer of VoT bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10539040

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10557401 offer of TS bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9882619 success at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9885782 offer of TS bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9003389 seems successful at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701350 success at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10040117 success at 7 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10623036 lot of cheap painted offers and a sale at 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10540853 offer of 8 for TS bills

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9863875 offer of 7 keys 3 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10655978 quite a few sellers at 7 keys 3 ref

What you guys don't understand is that Bill's hats are constant. Because they are currency. The fact is, that less people want them now so therefore there is less money to be made in painted bills.

All the links you posted are quickbuyer links, and backpack.tf does not reflect quickbuyers.

you mean like buds and max heads? which obv have never changed

"What you guys don't understand is that Bill's hats are constant. Because they are currency."

Keys.

Checkmate.

Yeah, or buds, or metal, or US dollars, or gold, or ....

bitcoins. Those fuckers are insane right now.

Sorry for my very stupid pissed off comment I made 2 nights ago at like 3:00am, quite clearly I was "just a bit" foggy.

just bought for 7.2 keys --> http://i.imgur.com/yPntc1b.jpg

no quickbuy, nothing. A normal trade and i`ll keep it. They`re just getting cheaper as many things.

1st. Painted Bills Dont worth anything. dont be like "Uhh paint worthes 1 keyz" it does not apply on bills hat.

2. Quickbuyer / Reseller

3.Painted ( Not even checking because of paint)

4.No Success from "comments"

5.Paints

6.7.8.90984pqw8e4qwpe9 : Resellers / Paints

Yes. these are quickbuys as traders mention it on their own trades. Provide us seller trades.

Profit buyers will always be able to successfully buy for less, especially when the price is a flat one

4th suggestion to change Bills Hat price in less than 24 hours.

Mate,don't touch that darn thing!

I've had this idea for quite a while now, ever since I had 99 stars and 1 more till a blue star. I just waited till it's the appropriate time I guess

normal ones:

l3: sold the same hour it was posted

l4: sold instantly

l5: havent been online for 9-10 hours, which means it sold almost instantly (proof of that: http://puu.sh/2Tdz9.jpg)

l7: sold instantly

l8: has offer of 8 keys in easily sellable items

and paints shouldnt be used as proof, and they sell for more than 8.

downvote, it shows the under 8 keys are quicksells

I just love this guy. He posts this on too many suggestions ^ XD

Not yolo bills must stay the same. bills would be so much easyer to buy and sell if we keep at 8 and bills are awsome:)

Agreed They should stay at 8

Maybe bill's should stay at 8 keys, like keys should stay at 2.33 and buds ar 27. But they don't.and we all know that but some refuse to admit. Just like those "saverhetf2key" people.

Do you want the price of a key to be 10ref in the future? Thx alot man...

Puudingkip has a point. Regardless of whether or not we WANT the prices to be lower, the market is saying otherwise. Believe me, I hate key prices right now. However, the market shows that that's the price people are willing to pay, and there's not really anything we can do about it.

No I do not. I like keys at 2.33 as much as you do, and I hate their current increases as muchas you do. For the sake of simplicity this should stay at 8 keys, but that ia s not nor has it ever been the purpose of this site. Life's a douche, economics are unpredictable and you never get all the things you want. get over it and aaccept that the current market for bill's is NOT 8 flat keys

#savethebills

Your proof is either quicksellers or painted bills. This will not pass.

One does not simply use yolo on a bill's suggestion.

A lot of links are for few hours ago :( I think isnt enough

WE NEED COUNTERPFOOF! people who say "It won't pass", please provide with some counterproof (at least as many links as PEASANT posted). Upvote!

There is 0 proof of Bill's selling for less then 8 keys, BIll's still sells EASY for 8 keys, lowballers on TF2outpost are just mad because they can't get one for a lower price. Price should stay 8 keys! "just look through the proof at least" HAHAHAHA... Nice try, but no, just no :/

> There is 0 proof of Bill's selling for less then 8 keys

wrong

> BIll's still sells EASY for 8 keys,

wrong

> lowballers on TF2outpost are just mad because they can't get one for a lower price

wrong, I can buy one right now for 7.8 http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/104468 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974 ... not interested because there's no profit in it.

> just look through the proof at least" HAHAHAHA... Nice try, but no, just no

haha yeah who does this guy think he is, asking people to look at "proof"!!! Your post was very bad, please never post again.

Quicksells don't count! People can get ANYTHING for cheap on quicksells! So there is 0 proof there!

The trade has been open and autobumping for 17 hours. If it were still easy to get 8 keys for a bill's, that would have been gone 16.5 hours ago.

It's not a quicksell.

Are u bering serious or what?

"Need to sell this bills fast~" You can see it on the 'proof' that u have just given me!

'The trade has been open for 17 hours. It's not a quicksell." Yea sure dude, clearly, so if a guy makes a QuickSell of his item for 10% and people don't buy it INSTANLY then its not a quicksell? Please just stop the madness...

Quicksells sell quick. That's what makes them quicksells. Pretty simple.

Quicksells means that the person is selling his item for CHEAP to sell it faster! It doesn't mean that the person must sell it in a short period of time. That's simple. Clearly you don't know what a quicksell is...

Guys, no need for flame wars. Quicksells are generally a price that 1 maybe 2 people have settled for because they want pure quick. But considering that there are more than 1 seller below 8 keys I wouldn't consider it a 'quicksell'

Well It's gone now. maybe the buyers were offline/overlooked it. even though its a quicksell, its still ~8 keys which is a lot for many people so there will be some time gaps.

The market for true quicksells is very liquid. If the price were anything special there is no way this trade would have stayed open for 8 bumps.

autobumps hide the fact that seller may have been offline - just because you don't see "added" doesn't mean someone didn't try to contact the seller

7 keys is a quicksell, 7.8 doesn't sell that quick.

"your post was very bad, never post again."

basically every post you make is bad xD

Assuming you think your own posts are good, I'll take that as a compliment.

Oh, here's some evidence for you to ignore: http://trade.tf/deals/search/Sell/All/Bill%27s%20Hat/all/1

Painted Bill's are too unstable to be used as evidence. The majority of the actual unpainted Bill's are sold in minutes and are quick-sells, some of the ones that appear open were sold hours/days ago and just haven't been closed. Not enough reliable proof to change such a significant item.

Okay a little lesson in the economic state of tf2 brought to you by a 15 year old.

First things first, the painted hats used as proof.

The only way these are actually valid is when you are still selling them at 8 keys.

And the reason that painted bills have dropped is because the high tier paints have also been dropping. When the white and black bills were selling at 10 keys was also when those paints were worth a key more individually. Many people sell painted hats by adding on half of the paints price, which is why white and black bills are selling at 9 keys now.

My second comment on this suggestion would be the amount of proof used of actual sales at 7.8 keys or less. Currently you have 7 links of selliers at that price. BUT on the market, or tf2Outpost at least there are 400 bills for sale just bumped in the PAST 30 MINUTES. Sadly I can not actually go past the 20th page to see how many bills are actually on the market but this bills proof is very minimal.

Also, for these links of people selling under 8 keys, they sold QUICK.

Which is the whole reasoning behind QUICKsales.

Do you know the impact on the economy this will create? This will start a revolution of low balling and quick buying. This will dwindle down the bills price and ruin the economy even more than it already is due to the keys influence of refined metal.

And this is why I pressed that red "X" above your suggestion.

1. There's still no reason to drop it by 1-2 keys than it was previously. And as you can see most of those painted links have not sold yet.

2. Yes, there are plenty of 8 key sellers. Also plenty are unsold. And as you said, most of the links of bills are either unpainted and are selling white/black for 10 keys or are used in currency as in for unusuals or sweets.

3. Yes they have sold quick which is why I didn't do like a range of 7-8 keys.

4. This already started a revolution, keys as one example and refined for another.

A very good point by Ricardio! Couln't put it better!

Painted Bills are not proof. The fact that painted bills are becoming harder to sell is due to the declining demand on the PAINT, not the BILLS.

I have sold TWO unpainted Bills at 8 keys each today, and had no problem getting customers whatsoever.

Many of your proofs are just quicksellers trying to get fast keys and selling a little lower just to stand out from the crowd. To actually decrease the value of Bills, you need to have more proofs of people selling less than 8 keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10798390 - 7 keys + 2 ref

Already up for 10 minutes.

I'm upvoting this shizzle.

10. Minutes.

Tell me that was sarcasm.

BTW it's sold

No. I was wandering that it's still after ~15 minutes unsold, bill's would still be 8 keys flat. I guess it doesn't.

There isn't always a buyer on 24/7, and with the substantial amount of bills trades there are, some can get plowed under. For 20 minutes. Heh. If it were unsold for 24 hours it'd be notable.

kk I'ma go change craft hats to 1.22-1.33 cause there are a ton of painted ones that go for 1.33. Brb.

There are actually some painted craft hats on scrap.tf sometimes :P

Bills can be bought at 7 keys as a quicksell for months now. There's no reason for a price change at all.

scrap.tf pays 7 keys, 2.55 refined for Bill's, so 7 keys is ripoff

Bills can be bought at 7 keys yes. But selling on the other hand is a different matter.

May I ask how long doest it take to sell bills under 8 keys? i d say like few minutes but staying neutral since people are really getting rid of bills

Why even bother? Why not let the one remaining stable currency be what it is? Painted ones may have been dropping a bit, but both unpainted and painted are still easy to sell at 8 keys and above.

well, my suggestion got closed. Here is my proof.

Selling under 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775258

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715958

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/3541238 8.4 for TS

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10755486

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9436524 8 for VoT

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9436337 8.4 for TS

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9430112

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9425781 8 for TS

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9419849 8.4 for TS

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9419064 8.6 for black

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775370 8.4 for VoT

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10737881 8 for lime

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10643580 8.15 for BaF

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10772431 8.15 for Pink

Low tier paints for 8

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10767714

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10768297

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10446784

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784220

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10762619

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10760009

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781731

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10788274

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10604790

Buyers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9989357 offer of VoT bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10539040

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10557401 offer of TS bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9882619 success at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9885782 offer of TS bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9003389 seems successful at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701350 success at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10040117 success at 7 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10623036 lot of cheap painted offers and a sale at 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10540853 offer of 8 for TS bills

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9863875 offer of 7 keys 3 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10655978 quite a few sellers at 7 keys 3 ref

Other Stuff

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10748929 Considering 8 for his BaF

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781403 selling BaF bill’s for 3 premium gifts

And here is some that merry catch contributed:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775080 7.6

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784165 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781092 7.8

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974 7.81 STILL UP FOR SALE

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780782 7.6

This needs to drop. Good Luck.

The link that's above the bottom link, second to the bottom, it sold. Most of your quicksells sold quickly actually. :)

I copied and pasted from my suggestion. There are probs alot of repeated links and etc... I was just adding more proof.

All from your reject suggestion...

which had more upvotes then almost any bills suggestion in the past 9 months.......

hahaha was reject, if your proof were really good your suggestion was accepted but no and this suggestion will have the same destiny.

you seem like a very difficult person to try and reason with. So I am going to stop attempting to do so.

It seems that votes matter less and less these days, and for good reason. I find that any suggestion to raise an unusual price gets significantly more opposition to any lowering of the price, regardless of my proof. So, I also think this Bills suggestion will get plenty of upvotes, but it is proven in the comments that the people who really care and are willing to post counterproof/reply to comments oppose this suggestion, as proven by the suggester's comment score.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775258 < 7 keys + 4 ref took 3 days to sell

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697 < 7 keys + 4 ref, 3 days and not sold

The guy above prove, that 7.8 is not a quicksell anymore!

while it is true that painted bills are taking quite the hit, an unpainted bills is pretty standard at 8 keys. Market sales don't really factor quite as neatly into tf2 pure purchases. People often sell items cheaper then there key/ref value because they are getting cash money, for items that cost them nothing to acquire. Also all sales under 8 keys for unpainted bills go very quickly.

What the hell? 1 ref change?

I dont think this really important...

We said that to 1 weap price change to keys too

Look where we are

you are right! so we shouldn't change the price at all =)

I think Bill's hat should stay at 8 keys. It's such a set price, everyone buys for that price, everyone sells for that price (Unpainted of course). No one asks for more or less.

I wish keys were like this...

Colored Bills Crisis =/= Bills Crisis

ya'll just mad

http://puu.sh/2TtOk.png

http://puu.sh/2TtNQ.png

i`ll post it here a third time, hard to see among those economy-lessons.

http://i.imgur.com/yPntc1b.jpg (7.2 keys, 1hour ago)

I just found two links:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9732260

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10158018

Dind't take long time, the painted ones sure have gotten a hit. Haven't been bought in over 3 weeks.

So, basically, we can change the price of keys, earbuds, maxes...

But bills cannot be changed ?

Amen brother/

I always sell non painted bill's for 8 keys in few hours and believe me I had a lot of them.

I have problems only with painted ones to sell, but they also sell after some days

First sentence killed it....

Money prices are invalid really...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9154730 <--- This Admin buys keys at 1.60, has dozens of adds and people sell him hundreds of keys at a time

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10335077 <--- Getting adds at 1.60 as well, money fluctuates and the prices are always changing, then you have to take in fees and what system was used i.e. Payapl Bitcoin Moneypack Amazon... all have different ways to selling.

YOU ARE NOT PRICING PAINTED ITEMS

Backpack.tf has a specific system used for pricing painted items, this is not the place to suggest prices to correct THAT system, you are pricing unpainted bills not painted.

Painted items are a whole new market and a bills for 9 keys isn't a bad deal

http://backpack.tf/faq#q5 <--- Try to have an admin or moderator alter that system, do not take out the price change here.

Also it is pretty obvious that when a person says 7 keys + 4.66 ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ELSE, they irritated at selling the bills and just want pure keys due to the fact that keys and metal are rising rapidly, furthermore there are 162,257 bills at time of posting not to mention the fact that there are thousands more in private backpacks (source: http://stats.tf/item/126/Bill%27s_Hat), 8 links shouldn't change the value of 150,000+ hats.

Bills are also used as a currency in many unusual trades accepted at 8 keys... I am not gonna do the research now but this item has been at 8 keys for a long time for a reason.

Do you think a range of 7.8-8 would really be better? It's not a big difference really. I don't expect people to start selling their Bill's for exactly 7.8 keys or somewhere around that price.

And that's why we change prices of keys by a weapon everyday and we can't change bills by a ref?

the difference is bills is currency people always sell for +- 8keys

And keys and buds aren't?

Buds were practically all unsold at 28 keys and there were sellers at 26-27 keys with trouble, it crashed and in a few days 25 was pretty easy to get a bud...etc

Bills are alot cheaper than buds (alot easier to afford) and it's pretty well known that it's 8 keys flat and sales always deviate by a little so it isnt surprising. By you "changing by a ref" might start peeps thinking amgz bills are gonna crash...etc and you'll might see the same thing that happened to buds.

Also you obviously dont have alot of proof, which is why i downvoted.

bad evidence money doesnt count downvote

ok http://backpack.tf/vote/id/514381894bd7b8af36000004

This is different. Refined is actually priced in USD dollars as where Bill's Hats are not. Therefore you cannot make a valid comparison between the two suggestions, nor can you draw parallels between a suggestion lacking proof validating your suggestion having poor proof. The point of backpack.tf is to list the average, in-game value of an item for what it is commonly traded for. In this case Bill's Hats are priced in keys, so the only way to warrant a change is through proof of people commonly selling for lower in keys/refined.

Please! I beg of you! Do not say yolo again.

perfeectly selleable at 8 keys..

i sold 10++ and usually sell them in the same day i post.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10806455

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780739

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10671355

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10666486

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10610447

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10465008

Yep

exactly.

Thx for bring the proof.

Perfect sells at 8 keys o the same day i quickbuy.

Yes you buy them quickly for 7. Most of those you buy in 1-2 days and you don't even have auto-bump.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805949 - You bought it from a guy he seems to have good amount of adds for 8 keys considering that he has only bumped it twice.

Also that is why 8 is still in the range.

devinately no i slod many for 8 keys easy just few hours ago lol

0_o what is this madness a bill's suggestion, with enough proof ?

well this is surprising upvote!

There isnt nearly enough proof to change it from those links...

Some people are tied to their Bill's hats and this is as controversial as key suggestions and this proof only represents a small portion of the market.

You know when someone like PEASANT attempts to bring the price of Bills Hats down, SHITS ABOUT TO GET REAL!

There are no new Bills coming into existence, and that is pretty weak proof. Also, what the hell kind of price is 7.8 keys? These need to remain constant.

.2 keys is 1 refined

"These need to remain constant"

Why is that? Because its currency? Currency is NOT constant.

"There are no new Bills coming into existence"

*Points to every Genuine item in the game*

"Also, what the hell kind of price is 7.8 keys?"

7 Keys 4 Ref

"These need to remain constant."

>I want these to remain constant because MUH BILLS can't not be 8 Keys.

bro. the bill's is the ultimate source of currency above keys and below earbuds. shouldn't change...

But both of those currencies change. Constantly. Your argument makes no sense at all.

This change needs to happen. As the open 8 Key suggestion's "proof" shows, there's a massive amount of sellers at 8 keys, and most of them are unsold. This is making alot of people sell to quickbuyers (which is apparently not a valid trade here, even though items are moving, and it happens pretty often with Bills) and others are simply selling lower than 8 keys. I've been selling every Bills I get for 1 ref below 8 keys for months (and I dont accept Bills as 8 keys because if it takes two weeks to sell with a decent amount of bumping, you're selling too high). 8 is possible, but with the time it takes to sell, its definitely a high end.

Also, for "You can't use painted bills" people

Why the hell not? If someone is selling a Lime Bills for 8 keys, clearly the Bills is not going for 8 and the Lime for NOTHING. Lime is a high tier paint, you don't get it for free on ANY hat (Hell, you can get over a Ref for Lime/Pink on hats like a Tossle. You can do the same with the Bills, its just we're reporting the wrong price, giving the illusion that people are getting free paint) White and Black dropped a whole key even though their prices dropped from 2.5 Keys to 2 Keys, where do you think the other .5 is coming from?

It's no wonder I haven't seen a single one of you try to back up the "don't use painted" rule. We use painted for everything thats not unusual (and does the Bills hat look like an unusual to you?). Just because you don't want your precious Bills to fall doesn't mean that painted suddenly becomes invalid.

Finally! This is what I've been trying to say!

Well the reason 8 key bill's aren't sold are because either NOBODY NOW CAN AFFORDING FUCKING KEYS BECAUSE OF FUCKING ASSHOLES WITH 6000000 KEYS THAT ARE TRYING TO INCREASE THE PRICE OF KEYS. Do you not understand? I know that keys are increasing. And bill's hat should decrease logically. However, it's currency. Lets say a dollar bill is suddenly worth like 2 dollars. but it's not like you're going to go to a bank and ask for a 1 dollar bill with 50 1 dollar bills. Comprendes? if no, fuck yourself.

Keys rising is irrelevant for this suggestion.

That, and its two different currencies, so your analogy is also meaningless.

Okay. Prove it. Find me 20 bills out of the 160k that exist selling at 7.8 for over 1 hour.

I believe I pointed out the massive flood of 8 Key Bills and the fact that there are Lime, Pink, and TS Bills for 8, 8, and 8.2 keys respectively. I personally did not mention 7.8. You should learn to read and/or learn to comment to the right person.

Righto. Exactly the response I was hoping for. How can bills drop if we have NO sellers at 7.8? Do we drop craft hats because some painted craft hats sell for 1.33? Hell no we don't.

Well, there are sellers at 7.8. I just didn't mention them in this comment. Multiple in classifieds and many on the OP.

But clearly you just saw the suggestion, went "MUH BILLS HUT" and then decided to try and defend it with nothing.

The craft hats aren't relevant, but people tend to sell their painted craft hats at absurdly high prices anyway. That, and for higher paints like Lime, you can still get a Ref or more on most hats. That includes the Bills Hat, but since we're reporting the wrong price here it seems as if people are selling Lime Bills Hats and not charging for the Lime at all.

Let me explain why that is. Because bills are a currency. People with unusuals often say "I count bills as 8 keys." And then when you enter the trade that's what your bills is worth. It's the same thing with most other prices, people want it as currency, not a painted hat. Hence all this paint hat stuff that's going around. If you can find any UNPAINTED bills hats for 7.8 keys that don't sell in more than an hour my case is nullified. All bills posted so far under 8 keys have sold faster than I can get to them, hence making them quicksells.

1) I don't count them as 8 Keys. Obviously Peasant doesn't either. As well as every person who has supported this change (which even you can understand is alot, seeing as the suggestion is still open).

2) I've had TONS of people use painted Bills as a currency with me before. People will try to use W/B Bills as 10 (or more recently, 9) Keys in trades, TS as 9 (or more recently 8.5), etc.

3) Obviously you didn't look at classifieds. Oh wait, you did, you mentioned them earlier. You're just lying. I suggest you make this thing called a "Buyer Trade". Since there's so much success at 7 Keys for these, you can probbaly get one for 7 Keys 3 Ref or so in under an hour.

O.o another price change just 2 days after mine

~~http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/112198-WTS-Bills-Hats!-11-11-50?highlight=bills – Selling for $11.50~~

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/116887-Selling-Black-White-Ts-Pink-Bills-12-each?highlight=bills – Selling painted for $12

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/109887-Colored-Bills-11-50?highlight=bills – Selling for $11.50

~~http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/111290-Buds-30-Bills-10-50-12?highlight=bills – Selling for $10.50~~

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/129259-Buying-Keys-1-40-Refined-50-Bills-10-50/page2?highlight=bill - Willing seller of lime for $11.50

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10520102 - Selling for $13.20 (7.6 keys)

Link 1 - Outdated - Last updated May 29th 2012

Link 2 - Outdated - 11 July 2012

Link 3 - Outdated - Last updated May 4th 2012

Link 4 - Outdated - Last updated May 15th 2012

These are all nearly or are becoming a year old, they're not valid proof.

Oh, lol. I thought it was still 2012...

Downvote, sorry. not enough proof with a lot of counter proof on this suggestion and the other one weighing against you.

Where do you even see this "a lot of counter proof"?

The suggestion to keep the price the same. (see the other bill's suggestion)

I don't see counter links but just a bunch of education on why bills should change...

i wonder why people even try...

Guys, it's not that I'm a fan of having the market of this game inflate like crazy but this is a fact. Right now the truth is every non-key currency is starting to drop, right now yes there is counter to prove against this new price range but still I don't see people here trying to prove that it is a wrong range but rather try to use this voting system as a tool to control the market to prevent things changing.

And yes you are correct, I'm questioning your objectivity as voters. Things change, for better or for worse. This price is suppose to be the one that is based on the trading, not the other way around.

but for the fact is that this suggestion doesnt represent the market. to change the price of bills you need A LOT of proof. like the bud and key suggestion has.

this suggestion has about the same "proof" as a regular item has. and most of them are instantly sold, which shows that the market isnt infact like that.

you've always been able to buy bills for lower than the market thanks to quicksellers.

and ive sold 2 bills in 12 hours for 8 keys today. if 8 keys was the highend, it would've taken me up to a week to sell it for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10672909 - So this Waterlogged Bills

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805809 - And this two which you sold but the one you sold it to is selling it for 8 keys http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10814528. So either he's regretting trading with you or you sold it for lower. Please screenshots.

what about my waterlogged? its sold

http://puu.sh/2TVxM.png

Show the 2 link \s that you sold your bills for and move your cursor over the bills so we know it's un-painted

jesus christ. first of, you'd know they arent painted. since you check the history of the item that isnt painted... follow the painted bills instead...

http://puu.sh/2Ug9F.png

both trades

and the cross com and dashin i sold for: http://puu.sh/2UgaS.png

which is a little more than 6½ keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805809¨first one easily sold in a few hours, second one sold when i woke up this day

same with you ^^

Keep you language to a PG13

there is a limit of one "f***" per pg 13 movie script.

Oh Hai long! I just wanna say, GL with you key suggestion :D

Money proofs are invalid, since people value items in money much less (note when people sell their entire backpack, they usually take off a couple hundred dollars).

All the ones which have sold for under 8 keys sold EXTREMELY quickly. Something this commonly traded is bound to have a larger amount of quicksells. Downvoting.

That's not true when selling a single item.

These are all from trade.tf first 8 pages

Unsold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10815337

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10815661

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816481

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816909

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819326

Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816963

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10818759

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819380

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10821647

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10823285

50/50 sold for 8 keys

All of the unsolds are not auto bumped and <1 day old

Of those solds, two got the Bills for 7 + 1 (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10738111) and 7 (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10821687) (another had a trade buying for 6 but he probably paid more for that one) Keys, and one is buying them for money (probably less than 8 keys worth, but idk the market for money trading).

Oh, but wait, "QUIVKBUYERZ R TEH DEVIL DON"T USE THIER TRADES!!1!!!1!!". Because if people are profiting, clearly there wasn't a trade made right? I originally thought the whole point of bp.tf was to reflect prices correctly, but apparently we're only allowed to show what people are selling for, since buyers are evidently some kind of subhuman lifeform that shouldn't count.

Of course everyone who read this suggestion and has thoughts other than "MUH BILLS" in their head knows that this is the correct price. It has been for a while, but everyone wants something stable to rely on, and so they continuously shoot these suggestions down, saying things like "8 keys at the backpack.tf key price of 2.55 ref. Nothing else", "blah blah blah quicksells are evil blah", "Lime paint is definitely worth 0 keys when used on an item, so an unsold lime bills at 8 keys doesn't prove anything", and "this will hurt the economy, why are you doing this?"

EDIT -- Oh, I wasted my time. I didn't even notice your "counterproof" is irrelevant, since you're supposed to disprove 7.8, since 8 is in both ranges.

Here is something relevant though : http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/126/6/0

7.8 unsold for 15 hours (yeah, 15 hours sure is quick)

Unsolds for 8 at: 5 Days, 3 Days (x3, two of which with pretty decent paint), 2 Days (x4, once again some decent paint). People are now charging 8 Keys + 1 Ref for 1 and 1.2 Key paints, and they're not getting it. You can get 1 Ref for your TS or Pink on hats worth less than a key, are you telling me you can't get 1 Ref for it on a Bills?

And now I'm starting to repeat by other comment. Search "Citrus" if you want to see why "Paint shouldn't count" is an argument that has no backing whatsoever.

Yep, more 7.8 just came in the classifieds http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/126/6/0

Interesting how 4 are from the same guy zac234, who, if you check his outpost profile, bought them all at 7.2 keys QUICKBUYING.

This is what I'm seeing from you:

"QUIVKBUYERZ R TEH DEVIL DON"T USE THIER TRADES!!1!!!1!!"

"QUIVKBUYERZ R TEH DEVIL DON"T USE THIER TRADES!!1!!!1!!" Please don't use them as proof, :)

Of course, this suggestion has been up for awhile. And obviously theres some that will start to follow the suggestions price and not the pricelist. I myself follow suggestion prices.

Though it is valid, how many people actually check bp.tf to buy things. bp.tf is more of a pricing website so obviously it will take more time for buyers to see them and even longer for them to buy the bills. if zac would use tf2 outpost i think he would get much more adds

Unsolds? they are so young, I see the admins of this site want lowered the bill's,

2nd, 3rd, 4th link sold, rest are young trades. Sounds like counterproof for this suggestion

"Oh yes, let me pull out my exact 7.8 KEYS for this transaction...*bites chunk off key*"

7.8 keys = 7 keys + 4 ref. No need to waste an 8th one :P

But they're so delicious!!

WH is full.... 600 Bills.

I kinda agree. Price is old, keys have gone up, maybe the bills needs to go down to 7.5 or something. (F.Y.I I got a bills hat...)

This is gold, you guys freak the fuck out when people suggest bills going down when the price suggester is actually giving legitimate proof. But when Buds go down and Keys go up, a lot of you don't give two shits.

Nope. Downvote.

yep down vote

Any proof to back that up?

I am going to buy a Bills hat soon, so this price suggestion will benefit me.

There is no reason for this to lower in price. 8 Keys is such a staple in the TF2 community at this point. A range would ruin everything. Use common sense, it's better than your shitty proof IMO.

"There is no reason for this to lower in price."

If the price is wrong, it needs fixed.

"8 Keys is such a staple in the TF2 community at this point."

Irrelevant.

A range would ruin everything.

If the item needs a range, not reporting it would defeat the entire purpose of this site.

"Use common sense, it's better than your shitty proof IMO."

But your common sense is wrong.

"I am going to buy a Bills hat soon, so this price suggestion will benefit me."

No it doesn't. We're not directly changing the price to this, we're changing the pricelist's listing. This is already the price of the Bills, the pricelist simply doesn't reflect it correctly. Even if this suggestion gets shot down (which it shouldn't, imo, but in the end its up to the mods), you can still get a Bills for under 8 keys pretty easily. With all the success of 7 Key "quickbuyers", a buyer trade at 7 Keys+ 2, 3, or 4 would probably get a willing seller rather quickly (I'd guess under an hour for 3 and 4 ref).

Bills is a currency. It is a rare promo used for buying other items often. - no matter what you say.

It is a staple of 8 keys. Making a Range for a currency would ruin the point of it being a currency.

Let's see, the common currencies are.... Ref, Keys, Bills, Buds, Max

Ref: Often has a range, but is currently $0.35 flat

Keys: When was the last time this DIDNT have a range?

Buds: Often have a range, currently at 22. Just recently changed from its range of 21-22.

Max: Used to be 2 Buds flat, but now has a range.

So.... what was that about currencies not having ranges?

Look at the dislikes on your comments,

Bitch

First of all he's right. Second of all that's an irrelevant post saying b**** and you can get banned/warned.

Well, when you comment on a currency suggestion and you're right, people tend to mash the downvote button and then not say anything. They don't like what I'm saying because I support the Bill's falling, but they don't have anything they can say to prove me wrong. It's the same reason that people are probably downvoting this suggestion 3:1, but most of the comments are: "Don't touch Bills", or "Painted doesn't count".

You calling me a B**** isn't helping your point either. If I was wrong you could say some sort of counter-argument, but since you can't do that you stoop down to name calling.

I truly didnt expect this arguement to get so heated. It looks like this suggestion is going to not succed, for the same reasons i stated. I respect your opinion cross country, but i definatly dont agree with it at all. Sorry for using language, its just the bills is a touchy subject in the tf2 trade community.

Sorry for being a jerk

- Ball Cream™

YES I GOT IT!!!!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832217

Oh and I got 2 adds in less than 30min to buy my bills for 8

Screenies?

they were from classifieds.

http://imgur.com/DdEm1TU

http://imgur.com/4ssxZ8c

What I don't get is why he would buy it off you when there are 7.8 in classifieds. Also, is it painted?

1st link: painted orange.

2nd link: not painted

However, painted bills are dropping in value. For example, you can easily get orange/pink/lime/VoT for 8 keys.

'However, painted bills are dropping in value. For example, you can easily get orange/pink/lime/VoT for 8 keys.'

There's no need for painted bills, especially team coloured and pink and lime to be the same price of normal, his pirce reduction.

What....

Your price suggestion is based on unpainted bills only. Painted ones do not matter in this suggestion.

As I said, 'Painted ones kinda matter if they're selling less than normal price or are selling of equivalent

Of course this only matters if it's high-tier paints, like lime, hue,, TS

What....no they don't. No one wants to pay the standard price for painted bills. However, people will pay 8 keys. Do you have any current trades OPEN at 7.8?

I'll buy ts/lime/pink bills for 8 keys :D so cheap mang

Yes, and this suggestion is for NORMAL bills only. showing painted ones do not matter.

I totally agree its a promo item and should not go down. But I bought 42 of them between 01/04/13 - 25/04/13) , and in-countless numbers since I started trading and a few this month ( proof: http://i.imgur.com/b23veYN.png , http://i.imgur.com/RBizgNL.png ). I am just wondering why would 42 people decide to sell there bill's at such a cheap prices just to me, in just 26 days, and there would be many and many like me on outpost who would have bought ridiculous amount of bills.

Ah also warehouse has now 600 of them in stock and all bought for 7.68 keys each, and interestingly the stock was filled up in just 45 days. Still the Bill's Hats aren't going down?

It would be still classified as quick-sell ? or this shows that the key prices are going up and article prices are relatively going down?

My fellow traders please advise otherwise.

Good point!

N0, just N0, bills always was 8 keys and it will always be

Unless you have proof

Why should they be stuck at 8 keys forever?

why USA currecy is a dollar? lets make it iron sticks? no, bills hat is tf2 currency, and i mean what's the point of 7.8-8? just to confuse ppl?

So what if its a currency? Keys,Metal,Buds are changing right now, Why not bills?

buds are going back up as they were and keys are changing because they are used to buy anything thats below bills, like hats-stranges, and those item prices changle allot

your argument is invalid

Keys are changing because of drop of metal

Buds are changing because of the summer sale and perhaps the keys

So Bills are dropping because keys are dropping

keys are rising, pffff...

Downvote,I have two adds on my own trade but I was offline at that time

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819327

Another trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10828313

Both hidden posts

Because they have bought their Bill's at 8 keys

2/4 are from the same person.

Bill's are used as currency, and that's about all I have to say for this topic

Three words: Metal, Keys, Buds

forgot max.

My own trade.

Unsold White Bills - 9.77 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10580525

Having trouble selling my Black Bills for 9 keys haha.

If bills hat are going to drop, whole tf2 trading is going to crash...bills are like our last resort of a stable promo item :C

Apparently its not as stable as it seems. Oops

Oh wow, 2 little points is considered unstable?

They still sell alright for 8 keys, and still could be considered an even trade in most cases...most, not all.

So 2 little points won't affect it much.

Do you realize that sellers will be freaked out once they see the red arrow?

Even though 2 points will be knocked off, OP will just lowball, and actually get buyers and boom, the bills shall drop again thanks to bp.tf

The circle of trading.

Your suggestion is too YOLO. More proof, don't hesitate.

For the love of all that's holy, do not try to change the price of it based on painted bill's proof. I've sold 4 normal bill's for 8 keys in the past week.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10419857

Your trade has no proof of you selling the bills for 8 keys in the last week, except you claiming that you did. Please post screen-shots of your 4 sales in the last week. to prove how authentic your claims are !!!

Happy? All of these trades took place before I went out of stock.

And how do we know they're not painted?

ive seen black and white bills down in 8, and more and more no paint bills for around 7 and 3 ref, i agree :D

Point me as to where you've seen these trades go down, I'd like to buy some. If you manage to buy an unpainted one for less than 8 keys that's pure profit.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834946 -- he has 3 left, be quick.

Damn, look at the histories on those, he sharked some poor guys. Of course he's gonna look to get rid of them.

I really hate sharkers

I wonder how far it will drop... shudder shudder...

http://imgur.com/juc0KgM,JAHITRb

unpainted offer of 8 keys 1 ref today

slate sold for 8 keys 2 ref today

Posting a little support before I leave, as I see this suggestion has been assigned and I dont want the mods to screw up like they've been doing more often lately (either that or people are just complaining about it more. Its probably the complaining, actually.).

Note: I checked the first 10 Pages of OP sellers.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770104

--Selling 14 Bills for 7 Keys 3 Ref, trade is now 3 days old. Looks like he only sold 5 at that price in 3 days.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834946

--Also Selling for 7 Keys 3 Ref. 21 Hours old, sold 3, 3 left.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697

--Unpainted for 7 Keys 4 Ref, unsold. Trade is 4 Days old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10853654

--Young trade, but his best offer is still only 7 Keys 2 Ref. If it gets a better offer I'm sure someone will jump on the chance to point it out.

I'd list the tons of unsolds at 8 Keys, but it would take all day. I used Ctrl+F and 7 to find these trades, and yet I still saw tons of people with open trades asking for 8 Keys.

And of course, the classifieds update. http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/126/6/0

Yet another 7.8 Key seller, and here you can see the troubles people have selling at 8 Keys. Days, 4 Days, etc. Pink, Lime, and Gold for 8, unsold.

Yep, checked the same pages, found the same 4 sellers and posted the unsold ones too.

Only unpainted ones and bumped in the last 8 hours:

Unsold below 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697 - 7 keys + 4 ref - 4 days (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10847591 - 8 keys - 2.55 ref - 6 hours (no donator) - young

Unsold/Sold below 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834946 - 7 keys + 3 ref (multiple)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770104 - 7 keys + 3 ref (multiple)

Sold 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773519

Unsold/Sold 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10678513 - 8 keys - 1 week (green donator) - sold 2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10397567 - 8 keys - 2 weeks (blue donater) - sold 1, 1 left

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10841144 - 8 keys - 11 hours (green) - sold 1, 1 left

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10795688 - 8 keys - 2 days - sold 2, 3 left

Unsold 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781904 - 8 keys - 3 days (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10831565 - 8 keys - 1 day (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10771162 - 8 keys - 3 days (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832378 - 8 keys - 1 day (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10655861 - 8 keys - 1 week (no donator) - still in bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10665966 - 8 keys - 1 week (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10806232 - 8 keys - 2 days (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369106 - 8 keys - 2 weeks (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10830765 - 8 keys - 1 day (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770552 - 8 keys - 3 days (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10826894 - 8 keys - 1 day (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10768868 - 8 keys - 3 days (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10827426 - 8 keys - 1 day (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773492 - 8 keys - 3 days (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10791372 - 8 keys - 2 days (no donator) - maybe a misleading desc

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10436699 - 8 keys - 2 weeks (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10660153 - 8 keys - 1 week (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10824482 - 8 keys - 1 day (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10777756 - 8 keys - 3 days (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10809927 - 8 keys - 2 days (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10825930 - 8 keys - 1 days (no donator) - bp.tf price

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10799081 - 8 keys - 2 days (no donator)

7 sites from outpost, of course I couldn't find much sold ones. Now how do we interpret this. Many at 8 keys, hardly anyone below.

Conclusion: If we would treat this like a normal item, a drop would be there already. But it's still a currency and deserves special treatment, not sure if this is enough for a price change. Another mod should decide.

There are many unsold at 8, but there are also many that have sold at 8 or more. i guess as bills is evolving into more of a currency rather than a hat, people don't really care about paints anymore. as people disregard paints, other people start panicking as it seems weird and they start becoming impatient. though there really is not reason for it

http://imgur.com/juc0KgM,JAHITRb

unpainted offer of 8 keys 1 ref today

slate sold for 8 keys 2 ref today

unless you have a painted bills, then be worried, be very worried.

(idk ive still sold pink/ts/etc bills for 9 keys all about patience)

those bulk sell offs at 7.6 are quite interesting.

All together, It looks like 8 keys is harder than it was to get and there is proof of 7.6-7.8 sales. Bills hat has had it coming

EDIT: It doesnt matter if I accept or reject, someone will complain. Oh well

they can still manage eight, given a day or two. Do not want.