Suggestion: Bill's Hat at 8 keys

Price Suggestion

Bill's Hat

Submitted Fri, 17 May 13 10:45:08 +0000 by ★ Fray

69.14%

7.8–8 keys

8 keys

233

~3.68 keys

1806 votes up

806 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was accepted Mon, 20 May 13 16:32:17 +0000 by A Distinctive Lack of Vincent.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Why the last suggestion was accepted with a net vote of -404, no proof of 7.8 at all, and using painted Bills as proof is anyone's guess. Now it's time to make it right again.

Why the money proof is invalid: "Money prices are invalid really...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9154730 <--- This Admin buys keys at 1.60, has dozens of adds and people sell him hundreds of keys at a time

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10335077 <--- Getting adds at 1.60 as well, money fluctuates and the prices are always changing, then you have to take in fees and what system was used i.e. Payapl Bitcoin Moneypack Amazon... all have different ways to selling."

-Mr. Badger

Sold at 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805809

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10828313

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819327

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10704612

http://redd.it/1920yi Acquired for 8

http://redd.it/1d53p9 Added for one, unsure if painted or unpainted

http://redd.it/xwt01 (old)

http://redd.it/1cadr3 8 keys 1 ref buyer

http://redd.it/103z1o 8 keys .33 ref buyer, old

http://puu.sh/2TtOk.png

http://puu.sh/2TtNQ.png

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805949

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816963

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10818759

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819380

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10821647

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10823285

http://imgur.com/DdEm1TU ( http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832217 )

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773519

Sold at less? They are all quicksells or quickbuyers. Any Bills taken below 8 is instantly sold. Like within minutes sold.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715958 - Sold for 7.8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775080 - Sold for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784165 - Sold for 7 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781092 - Sold for 7.8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10755486 - Selling for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780782 - Sold for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974 - Selling for 7.8 keys

Quoting one of my favorite comments of the post, by "President Plant"

3) As for the "Lots of Bill's unsold at 8 keys" - obviously. That is because there are so many Bill's on the market, there will always be a large amount unsold at 8 keys (the market price). It's harder to see all the ones that are selling at market price because the trades disappear as they are closed. Due to the sheer amount of Bill's on the market, you will also need more proof of unpainted Bill's selling below 8 keys for it to possibly accurately reflect the market.

4) Quicksell/buying trades alone don't count as proof either - you can buy a Bill's for 7.8 keys, but then I'm fairly sure you could do that half a year ago too. You'll always be able to get things below market price if you put up a buying trade.

So why did the last suggestion get accepted?

Lots of bulk proof that didn't really mean anything stood as the suggester's argument. Didn't really work, or should not have worked. Redwall accepted it because of some sells, he termed as "bulk sell offs". Doesn't that mean quicksell? Should the price have not gone down in the end?

To make it brief, Bills hats still fetch 8 keys. Anyone selling under is instantly bought from because it is a quicksell. Painted Bills are taking a hit but that doesn't mean that unpainted ones do too. Will post more when I get home.

you just copy the counter proof from last suggestion, the admin saw them and still accepted so why would they accept this one

also bills hat cost a lot of metal because of keys raising, it should drop..

idlers need to idle for years to buy a key or two

Even if the idlers have multiple accounts to get metal, they won't get many keys.

I've had a suggestion passed with proof that was counter-proof to one that passed before mine.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/516420b3ba25361203000023

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5161d40aba25360620000001

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5160dcfdba25362360000013

The reason I made this is not because I think/don't think idlers deserve a chance....

It's because the last suggestion was not accepted on enough ground, especially for a currency item. It should have so much proof it's overwhelming, rather only a select handful were accepted.

the cleverpun V Long gift wrap battles are very much synonymous with what I'm doing here.

It's like 10 weeks worth of drops for a key

Upvote. 7.8 is a quicksell price but was still accepted.

2.5% off is not even close to what is defined as a quicksell. Andy claims 30%. Get a hold of urself

andy is always right amirite

For a Bill's 7.8 is considered quick-sell. No one at all sells Bill's for 6 keys or 5 keys.

I guess that why I never trade in bills. I am looking to make a profit.

WH has 650 quicktrades.

Anyway..... I'm not sure why people care about re raising the price. If its still 8 keys in your mind then sell it for 8 keys. And I thought the low end of the spread was the quick sell price.

No actually, BP rules state that prices cannot include QS prices. Low end usually means profit traders usually buy at that price, and there is enough proof that people would sell those buyers the item at that price. So people who are buying bills for 5 keys right now are not going to get in the price range, and neither are the people selling for 9 or 10.

My friend chuck buy 3 bill's hat for 5 - 6 keys.

One painted with ts

Just some things about your proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805809

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10828313

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819327 --> Unsold

http://puu.sh/2UWS5 --> No date

http://puu.sh/2UWOp --> 2 weeks old

http://puu.sh/2UWPh --> 2 weeks old

http://puu.sh/2UWMD

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10704612

http://redd.it/1920yi Acquired for 8 --> 2 months old

http://redd.it/1d53p9 Added for one, unsure if painted or unpainted --> 3 weeks old

http://redd.it/xwt01 (old) --> 9 months old^^

http://redd.it/1cadr3 8 keys 1 ref buyer --> 1 month old

http://redd.it/103z1o 8 keys .33 ref buyer, old --> 8 months old

http://puu.sh/2TtOk.png --> he bought one for 7 keys^^

http://puu.sh/2TtNQ.png --> sold for an item, not 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805949

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10816963

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10818759

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819380

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10821647

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10823285

http://imgur.com/DdEm1TU ( http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832217 ) --> The Bills in the trade was painted ts

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773519

Please check your proof before posting it, misleading proof is bad.

More proof for 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10831565

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832378

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10768868

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773492

Not sure proof is really all that misleading, the old links that were mine (the reddit ones) I did point out.

Did mess up on some of the proof though, my bad.

Well half of your links were invalid.^^

My counter proof:

Selling under 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775258

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715958

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/3541238 8.4 for TS

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10755486

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9436524 8 for VoT

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9436337 8.4 for TS

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9430112

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9425781 8 for TS

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9419849 8.4 for TS

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9419064 8.6 for black

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775370 8.4 for VoT

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10737881 8 for lime

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10643580 8.15 for BaF

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10772431 8.15 for Pink

Low tier paints for 8

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10767714

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10768297

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10446784

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784220

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10762619

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10760009

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781731

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10788274

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10604790

Buyers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9989357 offer of VoT bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10539040

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10557401 offer of TS bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9882619 success at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9885782 offer of TS bill’s for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9003389 seems successful at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701350 success at 7 keys+ 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10040117 success at 7 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10623036 lot of cheap painted offers and a sale at 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10540853 offer of 8 for TS bills

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9863875 offer of 7 keys 3 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10655978 quite a few sellers at 7 keys 3 ref

Other Stuff

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10748929 Considering 8 for his BaF

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781403 selling BaF bill’s for 3 premium gifts

And here is some that merry catch contributed:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775080 7.6

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784165 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781092 7.8

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974 7.81 STILL UP FOR SALE

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780782 7.6

Peasant's counter proof:

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/126/6/0 - Plenty Unsold at 8 keys, even painted ones

http://i.imgur.com/kMXA4lL.png - Scrap.tf Selling White Painted for 9 keys

http://tf2shop.net/details/126-6 - Selling for $13.99

--------------------------------------------------------

Money Proof

Selling

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8273140 - Sold out at $13 (7.45 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9097188 - Selling for 13.98 (Basically 8 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10635289 – Unsold at $14 (8 keys)

Buying

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9587974 - Bought some at $11? (6.3 keys!)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10529229 - Bought Baclava Bills for $12.50 (7.15 keys)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/search/108232860 - Plenty of buyers under $12.50

--------------------------------------------------------

Sellers/Willing Buyers

Black/White

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697 - Selling White Bills for 9.4 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10778350 - Unsold White Bills at 9 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10761785 - Selling for 9 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10767520 - Unsold White Bills at 9.5 keys

Normal

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10704612 - Sold for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715958 - Sold for 7.8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775080 - Sold for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784165 - Sold for 7 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781092 - Sold for 7.8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10755486 - Selling for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780782 - Sold for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974 - Selling for 7.8 keys

Others

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10771500 - Selling TS for 8.5 keys

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9436524 – Selling TS for 8 keys

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9425781 – Selling TS for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10737881 - Sold Lime for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10643580 - Selling BAF for 8.15 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10772431 Selling Pink for 8.15 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10505310 - Selling After Eight for 8.4 keys

Look through here at all of the sellers under 8 keys:

http://trade.tf/listings/search/Sell/Unique/Bill%27s%20Hat/all/1

Any painted bill's selling for over 8 keys is irrelevant.

so you're saying black bills for 8 keys and a ref is irrelevant?

It is. People don't want painted Bills, but that doesn't account for the fact that unpainted are still wanted and in demand.

Painted items don't count toward proof.

horrid proof

I swear people are changing prices by small amounts to A) piss everyone off B) Get rep without too much hard work/proof finding

2 of your 7.8 sales took more then 1 day to sell.

650 unsold at WH. That's a lot of quicksold.

10399 keys at WH (overstock, 103%) for "4.8 ref". That's a lot of quicksold.

(-14400 key selling price, 3000 ref buying price-)

Oh wait... "WH is a joke, we shouldn't use it as proof." Right?

ERROR -404 LOGIC NOT FOUND

Thanks for putting my screenshots and trades to good use! :)

Wait a minute. 404 negative votes on the last Bill's suggestion. That must mean, I have a calling to accept or deny this suggestion. I HAVE THE POWER! Upvote everyone!

I am 404 Spy not found and I approve this message!

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That T-Rex should help you make your decision. You've no idea how long that took to make.

i wonder why 7.8-8 keys got accepted it had like 400 downvotes

keys suggestions have more

I am preparing myself

I am preparing my anus.

Yeah me too! totaly crazy :D

Because backpack.tf voters being objective on currency suggestions is impossible, so people simply downvoted because MUH BILLS.

Wait got changed? NOOOOOOOOO.... We needed to keep that 9 month price going!

9 months is bad

I lol'd

Well that was predictable, maybe someone should buy some bills from him?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770104 - 7 keys +3 ref^^

Copying my links from 9 hours ago:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781904 - 8 keys - 3 days (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10831565 - 8 keys - 1 day (no donator) --> sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10771162 - 8 keys - 3 days (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10832378 - 8 keys - 1 day (no donator) --> sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10655861 - 8 keys - 1 week (no donator) - still in bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10665966 - 8 keys - 1 week (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10806232 - 8 keys - 2 days (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369106 - 8 keys - 2 weeks (blue donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10830765 - 8 keys - 1 day (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770552 - 8 keys - 3 days (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10826894 - 8 keys - 1 day (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10768868 - 8 keys - 3 days (no donator) --> sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10827426 - 8 keys - 1 day (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773492 - 8 keys - 3 days (green donator) --> sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10791372 - 8 keys - 2 days (no donator) - maybe a misleading desc

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10436699 - 8 keys - 2 weeks (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10660153 - 8 keys - 1 week (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10824482 - 8 keys - 1 day (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10777756 - 8 keys - 3 days (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10809927 - 8 keys - 2 days (no donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10825930 - 8 keys - 1 days (no donator) - bp.tf price

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10799081 - 8 keys - 2 days (no donator)

8 keys is still in the range btw, but it does look like a hard sell. Anyways, jon has to decide on this one again.^^

My own trade got 2 adds within a day,unfortunately I was offline: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10819327

Hmm I think I should just complete the list:

Only unpainted ones:

Unsold below 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697 - 7 keys + 4 ref - 4 days (green donator)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10847591 - 8 keys - 2.55 ref - 6 hours (no donator) - young

Unsold/Sold below 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10834946 - 7 keys + 3 ref (multiple)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770104 - 7 keys + 3 ref (multiple) - posted above

Sold 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10773519

Unsold/Sold 8 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10678513 - 8 keys - 1 week (green donator) - sold 2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10397567 - 8 keys - 2 weeks (blue donater) - sold 1, 1 left

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10841144 - 8 keys - 11 hours (green) - sold 1, 1 left

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10795688 - 8 keys - 2 days - sold 2, 3 left

http://imgur.com/juc0KgM,JAHITRb

just yesterday

http://imgur.com/eD9OLK3

today on trade server

http://imgur.com/uuy9nja

today sold balac for 9 keys

This doesn't mean anything, as this is the price of a unpainted Bills we're talking about here.

ok well then people shouldnt post the trades involving painted bills. im just disproving the fact that bills are being sold for super cheap

IMO 7.8=quicksell price so it shouldn't affect normal price. 8 keys is still doable and standard price, and also 60% of community disliked last suggestion... upvote from me

Why is 7.8 a quicksell price? Because multiple sellers are selling at the price and buyers are consistently successful, right?

Oh wait, thats not a quicksell. That sounds like 7.8 keys would be a pretty good price to buy a Bill's for.

the proof in the last suggestion was terrible. i proved that most of them sold instantly, yet it gets accepted? it didnt have much proof either. which a currency item needs. it based most of its proof on painted ones.

this is outragious. a currency item should need more than 10 to get accepted. key suggestions need over 100 trades, buds need atleast half of that. and bills only need under 10?

here's what the proof was:

"Normal

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10704612 - Sold for 8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10715958 - Sold for 7.8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10775080 - Sold for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10784165 - Sold for 7 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10781092 - Sold for 7.8 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10755486 - Selling for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780782 - Sold for 7.6 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10780974 - Selling for 7.8 keys"

and here's my proof it shouldnt be from the last suggestion:

"normal ones:

l3: sold the same hour it was posted

l4: sold instantly

l5: havent been online for 9-10 hours, which means it sold almost instantly (proof of that: http://puu.sh/2Tdz9.jpg)

l7: sold instantly

l8: has offer of 8 keys in easily sellable items

and paints shouldnt be used as proof, and they sell for more than 8.

downvote, it shows the under 8 keys are quicksells"

almost all sold instantly. basing the pricedrop on painted ones cant be done.

later on i showed that i could sell 2 in less than 16 hours for 8 keys each:

" http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10805809 first one easily sold in a few hours, second one sold when i woke up this day"

yes im mad. i got problem with this.

wolfi provided some links for unsolds at 8 keys. most of them were 3 days old and younger. to prove a price normally you'd need to have a week of unbought to use it as single proof.

there was one single trade that was still open under 8 keys. was that the only trade that was needed?

8 keys isnt a hard sell. and 7 keys+4 ref is a quicksell

Bills are always 8 keys

WHY DO YOU CHANGE IT BACKPACK WHY?

Now all of you sound just like those guys that complain that keys should be 2.66 just like they used to be.

They were not always 8 keys ya know.

we do know that but saying that means you are being biased. we all know that bill's is a currency in tf2, and therefor, we are forgetting one thing: Lowballers. buying everything for 1 key or 2 ref less than what an item is worth.

1 USD is always 0.77 Euro.

WHY DO YOU CHANGE IT WHY? CURRENCY IS UNCHANGEABLE!!11

You know dude, Admins here doesn't care about economy.

yes they do. for example they wait 3 days to accept the new buds suggestion so they can still buy at 22 and profit. if thats not economy i dont know what is.

You don't understand how his works do you?

backpack.tf does not set the prices, it records them. When a suggestion is made to drop or raise an item's price, odds are the item isn't selling at the price about to be eliminated anymore.

the problem in "recording prices" is how the admins run this, they record when they want, what they want. Someone please post the picture of cleverpun buying uncraftable texas ten gallons and saying the price would go down, and the suggestion accepted a week later to raise the price.

that shows a lot of how admins are running this.

That hypocrisy hurts my eyes ;_;

People here always vote for what they want, not what is true. They have no idea about basics of economy, they are just so deluded "KEYS ARE 2.66! BILLS 8 KEYS! 1 USD IS 0.77 EURO!"

all "free economies" have intervention. if the price of oil is too high for example, the government will try to make measures to lower it. Absolute free markets always end up in crashes, i think you need to learn the basics of economy.

But that's not the point. They take 5 out of a billion bills trade and make that good enough "proof to lower the price", this way people begin to buy only at 7.8, once the price is set that way people will buy lower and it will continue and so on.

I'm not commenting on Bill's price, just on hypocritical statement "Admins here doesn't care about economy." - when most users on Backpack always vote for what they want, when it comes to currency items. If admins would listen them, this site would be useless, because it wouldn't track real prices (and I'm talking mostly about keys now) and unaware users would be sharked.

"if the price of oil is too high for example, the government will try to make measures to lower it"

When it comes to food, gas, power and other basic goods, but we are talking here about damn in-game items, which satisfy only egos, not your hunger.

"Free markets always crash" - that's a bold statement, even if so, you don't even know when it will happen after 3 or 3000 years.

"this way people begin to buy only at 7.8, once the price is set that way people will buy lower and it will continue and so on."

"i think you need to learn the basics of economy."

People will sell for how much they can, not how much some site tells them. If they sell all hats at 7.8, they will raise the price and we will see how high demand is. Backpack have nothing to do with it and as you can see prices go up and down, just look at the buds and don't tell me that I must learn.

i think you think too much of tf2 traders. they will take the price of this site almost as a bible.

i know there is a difference between food and hats, im just saying, economically speaking, it doesn't make sense to change the price to 7.8.

And yes, if you study economy, in 1929 and 2008 the 2 biggest american economical crisis (the second mostly because of the lack of regulation on loans and derivatives speculations than the free market itself, but still...

And that is only on the US, we can speak about the crisis that happened in Greece, Argentina, Brazil and a lot of other countries

Why was the 7.8-8 accepted? it had lots of counter proof and barely any good proof AT ALL

Go back, look at the counterproof. It was all words but no links. Around 90% of Bills are painted so it was pretty hard to find proof at all that was decent.

The people who did provide counterproof links mostly provided GOOD proof. Enough to shut down the submission at least

Not that many are painted...And you find painted ones mostly because no one wants painted bills so they stay unsold longer staying up.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/search/109347536

You will only find unpainted ones for keys, outpost has added some search functions, you know. ;)

Did not remember paint was a filter. Then i wonder why peasant only found painted ones.

Because he didn't know that either?

Or because paint on Bills is a traditional part of trading. Many state black bills at 10 keys as if it has been a standard for some time.

Well that standard is gone obviously.^^

The price is for a unpainted Bill's. Not a painted one - the cost of paint.

Sure, people used to price them like that, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

Some price Black/White BIll's at 9 though, and still price Bill's at 8. Paint sort of messes up the prices.

and again

http://stats.tf/item/126

162,282 copies of this item exist.

An Extraordinary Abundance of Tinge

10029 (26.6%)

10029 - 26.6

x - 100

x= ~37703

so 37703 Bills are painted

37703/162282= ~23% Bill's are painted

and that little "pie" is other paint :)

http://prntscr.com/157v6z

What Peasant means is that 90% of posts for bills are painted. Honestly people should start deleting the paint.

The thing is, if your Bill's is painted a 2 key paint, will you be willing to just lose that 2 keys?

There was a debate and a poll going on in the forums of how to price paint. Yes you lose the value. A paint's value is in it's potential use. Once used it's only value is in how much it enhances the item it is used on. Soon I believe that paint will adjust to half its original value once applied. For now it is 85% of original value.

you just admitted that your proof was bad... Why didn't you close the suggestion then?

My proof is this.

http://trade.tf/price/126/6

Which shows that Bills has been trading for bellow 8 for awhile.

The median price has not reached 8 keys

Exactly, and you got hate for stating an obvious thing.

Oh, lol, I thought you were saying that Bills has reached 8. Nvm :D

Oh, believe me. I have been on the "Bills should come down" bandwagon for awhile. Good job on the accepted suggestion.

only 1 proof for a major big currency like this is pure garbage.

All Accept!

Upvote! you're right the last suggestion about the bill's was not so nice

-404 and acceptet :(

The votes don't matter. The key suggestions always get hundreds of downvotes but are still accepted. The admins go by the proof, not by the votes.

The backpack.tf system was created based on a system of checks and balances... Just like the US government. But what if the president could overrule the judical and legislative branches? Wouldn't be good. And ever since the mods/admins started pulling their executive power and stopped listening to votes, period, the site has been having questions about admin/mod loyalty, and has gotten it's rounds of haters. Maybe there's something to this..

Rofl comparing government with a FUCKING BILLS SUGGESTION

Wrong, actually. I'm comparing it to the standard upon which this website was supposed to operate, and how it no longer operates in the fashion we would have liked. :)

Well that assumes the voters vote objectively, but in the case of currency they don't.

And the check to that is that a mod has to accept the suggestion. And in this case, it worked, as they did the right thing.

And the previous Bills suggestion had next to no proof, hence why this suggestion exists

True. But the proof wasn't there on the suggestion either. It was math that didn't really make sense, as paypal sellers are infamous for quickselling their shit, it was painted Bills, which mean nothing to me, and there were quicksales/quickbuyers. Backpack.tf doesn't reflect quickbuyers or sellers, the price someone pays in paypal is very subjective to the time, and painted Bills, as mentioned by many, mean nothing when discussing the price of unpainted. The fact the previous suggestion was accepted is anyone's guess. *Cue redwall*

404 Page is Not Found

But anyways upvote all the proof used for 7.8 is quicksells and painted bills

And 1 never change the Bills

agree, sold my easily for 8 keys within idk like 1.2 days

Agreed, should have stayed at 8 keys.

just like keys should have stayed at 2.55-2.66, i hope the price of bills comes back to normal tho

I totally agree. That problem could be fixed if VALVe would make Keys craftable.

Never going to happen.

1) With unlimited metal and limited keys, this de-values keys over time

2) With the ability to craft keys out of metal, why would someone ever buy a key from the market?

3) If you could praise idlers and just allow them to create keys for free, Valve makes absolutely no money, and there go all of the profits of TF2.

Error in that logic. With unlimited metal and limited keys, this de-values METAL over time. If keys became UNLIMITED, as the suggestion is, then yes, that would devalue keys over time, to the point of it just existing to the price of metal required to craft. Also, why in the world would a company literally kill its own profits?

I think that's what he meant to say. Since keys are limited, they are valuable. Since metal is unlimited, it's not as valuable. If keys become craftable, then keys will lose their value. His wording is confusing, but other than that his logic's spot on.

For Bills once a price always a price it should never change and there is proof.

people can sell for under the price if they want but it should stay 8 keys

Backpack.tf F*cked up the keys and the buds. If bill's shares the same fate...

oO The buds? This is new.

Earbuds went from 28 to 21 in a few weeks. I can guarantee it wouldn't have happened if bp.tf wouldn't have been there.

The same thing happened last year at the ~exact same time: http://tf2finance.com/

Oh that's interesting, I wasn't so much into trading at that time with the buds, excuse me.

Np, I just want to get some facts straight.^^

Hate to burst your bubble guys, but this is going to fail :/ I want 8 keys sooo badly, I even put an upvote on this, but the damage is done. The classifieds are flooded by panicked sellers who think the bills are going to crash. And, y'know, they might.

They might is never a certain yes, and this is what we are trying to prevent.

8 keys is still doable, so Instead of quickselling your bills so that people could buy them and make the price of the Bill's hat drop even more, just wait for that 8 key buyer.

I wouldn't sell a bills at below 8 keys even if I needed to xD I hate supporting quickbuyers.

lol other suggestion the dowgrade was about 41% HOW CAN IT PASS XD

I'll be frank, from every past suggestion I've gathered that you guys are being quite xenophobic about the changing prices. Yes there is some grounds to argue against the price change but you can't keep playing the quicksell card. especially since many are using the unfair generalization that all Bills under 8 keys are a quicksell.

I'm certainly not afraid of change, as shown on my 9/9 unusual suggestions (when I actually get the currency right).

The reason I made this is because the proof was incorrect. The proof shown had no evidence of 7.8 keys at all, and there was more counterproof than there was actual proof. With all the counterproof, it felt for certain that under 8 keys is a quicksell. Please find me one bills under 8 keys that has not sold. It's nearly impossible. Everyone buys it because they can flip it for profit, somewhat easily.

So you are telling me that people buy 7.8 Bill just to sell it back at 8 keys to make a 1 ref profit? It seems to me that their are easier ways to make 1 ref then to buy Bills.

People buy at 7 keys, 7 keys 1 ref, and above. And yes, they do it for profit. It's better than hatbanking for 1 scrap per hat, scrapbanking for 1/2 scrap profit per sale, or key banking for 2-3 scrap profit per key. So yes, people do.

I can make a ref buy spending a lot less then what a bills cost and considering how many people are waiting to sell theirs.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10661971 - Last time i had bills. The two bills that are unpainted sold for 8 keys within the day.

I havnt had bills in awhile since i stopped accepting them as 8 keys because i jumped ahead of the bp.tf influence and will only take them as 7 keys.

Well one of them is not really plain. Not sure if they a bit better because of that.

That one took longer then the unpainted one. Just so you know. Its 1 scrap paint, its unpainted in my eyes.

Ah alright, I would always buy the painted one if they have the same price.^^

I prefer painted ones to for the same price as un painted. Which was a surprise when i was selling them as the same price. But i guess the paint is ugly and deterred people

http://prntscr.com/15bm17

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10846067

Not much hassle...

Dump price, wtf is 7.8 keys anyways? Upvote

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1200-psa-fractional-key-prices-2-1-ref/

oh haha, never knew that :P Still a stupid range though

Accepted by a noobish admin who destroyed the key market also.

Yeah, you're right. It was all J-J-Jon's fault for key's price rising. He did it all by himself. The admin with 1 key in his backpack. It couldn't have been the constant buyers and sellers selling and buying above bp.tf's prices. No, it wasn't them at all.

How in the hell was the last trade accepted...? Upvoted.

What trade?

Guessing he means suggestion, but y'know.

Yeah sorry about that, I was passing out haha.

Guys painted Bills Hats are falling. Not regular Bills Hats. So painted Bills Have no effect on the price..

painted or not. you get them for 7, 7.2, etc....price should go down

I'd like to see proof of that.

http://i.imgur.com/yPntc1b.jpg - was a buying trade and took me ~1day to get it. Also had an offer of 7keys 2ref

IDK, IMO painted BIll's are a pain in the ass to sell, but unpainted Bill's? They sell like hotcakes, usually out of my BP within 1-2 days.

Just sold a TS Bill's for 8.5, because I cut paint price in half unlike most people.

if you could provide some screenshots of you selling at 8 keys each that would be very helpful for us. Either way thank you for your insight.

Bill's hat always was strong currency, that's why upvote.

Some strange things happens in this website. Strange things indeed.....

Good proof to back up your reasoning. Upvote.

Has more proof then the other, illogical price suggestion and bills are used in unusuals at 8 keys. You sir are a smart man

I'm starting to seriously question the credibility of this site... Oh wait. That's not new.

Impossible to tell if you're attacking my suggestion... or the previous one.

The previous one. The one that received a negative net vote count but was still passed. I'm 100% with you on this suggestion. :)

Votes on promos mean next to nothing really, everyone is biased. eg. make a trade lowering keys to 2.66 refs with no proof and you'll still have alot of upvotes.

I dont think that last suggestion should have passed tho, bills has been the most stable and just a difference of 1 ref might rock it (buds crashed cuz people got scared)

hope i helped :)

this is a far too much traded item to even be dented in price by 1 ref. 9 month old price stands, all others are confirmed quickbuyers/quicksellers

but, fuck, this is related to the whole key inflation

as shit goes up other shit goes down

fuck tf2 man

Not disagreeing with you there, but you should probs edit/remove that comment before clever comes along and bans you :S

And the fact that clever and I don't get along thanks to his Pink As Hell suggestion, this isn't the place you're gonna want to challenge his authority.

I was selling a bills at 7.8 keys for 4 hours

bumped 8 times.

#savethebills starting?

YEEEE 1337 vote.

+1 i have buyed my bill 9 keys... 8 keys is super for up this at 9 key

you bought a bills for 9 keys....

dumb move man

It might have been a Team Spirit Bill's :P

yes team spirit and now i have white bill

So?

TS Bills-100000 unsold for 9, easy at 8.5

White- Easy at 9, many unsold for 9

up vote ;)

I agree. Anything under 8 keys is a quicksell. You can always get 8 keys, so to tell it less is your loss.

Thank you <3

Bills are a currency, like keys. But Like keys I don't think they should change price. upvote :)

You have my vote dude, The last idiot just wanted to annoying ppl with his stupid suggestion, Bill's hat does not need a change, 8 Keys has been its price for a long time Maybe is the most stable item in tf2,

WTF, they accepted that?? my god.. easy upvote.

upvoted, the bills is basically currency it should stay at a stable 8

Keys

Refined

Buds

Currency is not stable. Deal with it.

I think it's actually the painted ones that are the hard to sale right now. I haven't have problems trading with unpainted bills. anyways with painted ones, since ref is going down and item prices such as paints or nametags goes up, nobody wants to pay even near full price for your painted bills. but not a bills problem, a modified bills problem.

I dont see why the last suggestion was accepted maybe some admin/moderator trying to be funny or something...

I had -400 because voters here are too biased.Thy see a price drop and think "NO, NAUT MAI BEELS HUT! DAUNVUT!

7.8-8 is correct. Claiming 7.8 buyers and sellers as quickbuyers/sellers is ridiculous.

Woohoo! Enough positive votes. If this gets closed, that'll prove how corrupt the voting system is.

someone said your vote doesnt matter (usually when it comes to currency) but I dont remember when something like this happened

On the flip side, a key suggestion gets accepted even though it has a 30% approval rate. No corruption there though amirite?

Not to mention, unlike keys, Bills aren't used as a price range of items on TF2. Keys have doubled in metal price, while craft hats remain the same and many items are starting to switch over key price into a metal equivalent.

Seriously, there are many proofs of people buying at 7.8 keys, which is a whopping ONE WHOLE REFINED. Why is everyone getting all mad that the bottom price range of Bills have been reduced. You're trading with an item worth 8 keys and everyone is mad over a 3% "drop" in price?

Also keep in mind that BP is JUST A GUIDE, NOT THE BIBLE OF TRADING. You can still sell your Bill's for 8 keys, and if you can't then why are you trying to bump it back up? The current range simply shows that it's possible to buy some @ 7.8 keys, if you sell them it won't affect you.

If it gets passed, it'll prove that the mods give in way too easily to the demands of a mob that repeatedly shouts a baseless argument. If the suggestion is wrong, no amount of upvotes can make it right. Proof can, but everyone seems to not want to try that.

This vote, as well as the last one, are perfect examples of why we have mods to accept suggestions in the first place. People can't vote objectively, so we have mods to correct that.

I just checked if I should change my downvote.

On the first page:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10764697 selling for 7 keys + 4 refined.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10877672 Selling for 7 keys + 3 refined.

My downvote remains.

Cant be upvoted anymore.

Well admins. what are you guys waiting for?

Maxed out on upvotes, yet not accepted? All it's doing is sitting here getting downvoted. How unfair is this? The whole point of the site is so that prices can be changed according to what the community thinks.... Yet they're accepting/rejecting suggestions that have negative/posotive percentages, respectively. Price manipulation, anyone?

i think the mods are a little bit in trouble. they havent accepted anything in the last 8 hours.

thats cus of the new update and the many suggestions.

Nah, it's happened before with keys. I've also had my suggestions closed with positive percentages. This isn't the first time they've done this.

Spyre, the voters are biased. The mods are doing their job well not listening to the idiots who think Bills should stay at 8 keys no matter what.

Some of the voters honestly think it should stay at 8. But the majority of the upvoters, it seems, are biased. Therefore it makes sense to ignore the vote count.

Your logic is flawed. If we reelect a president, does congress have the right to decide that we're all biased and choose someone else instead? No. If what you say is true, we might as well not have a voting system at all.

Additional proof, sold one for 8 keys http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10902821/done

8 keys is in the range.

I sold it for 8 keys flat, proving that it can be done easily and is a good price

[sarcasm] No shit, you sold it for 8 keys? FLAT? Why, I didn't notice that from your original post! [/sarcasm]

8 keys is in the range. Telling us you sold one for 8 keys is meaningless.

And besides, who did you sell it to?

Whoever approved that needs to be removed as an admin, period. Bills is 8 keys. It has been this way for a LONG time now, and if there were a decrease in standard price it wouldn't be to 7.8. Insane.

I think the mod that accepted should be praised for not giving in to the pressure from the masses and accepting the price like they should have. An uneducated mob (especially one like we have here that blatantly ignores reason, as well as proof) should not dictate the prices.

The only argument the mob has is that the price was stable for 9 months (which isn't really an argument in the first place). After so long, everyone wants it to stay at 8 Keys forever, especially after what happened to Keys. Too bad for them, bp.tf isn't here to make you feel good, its here to report prices. The ACTUAL prices.

----

What price WOULD it drop to? Would it drop a full key or something?

Yes, of course it would drop a full key, or possibly half a key. No one is going round servers saying SELLING BILLS HAT 7.8 KEYS, and 8 keys is still the community accepted price.

Aproved,Good hat of old promotion

Upvote, this people claiming about cheap painted Bill's hats are dumb.

Let me explain: What is more important in one painted item? The paint or the item self? The item of course, if they are selling black or white Bill's Hats for less of 10 keys they are only lowering the price of the paint. (This is so obvious, you need being dumb if you can't get it)

I find this hilarious. So many people whose only argument is "Bill is a staple at 8 Keys, it needs to stay that way" and "Upvotez maxd out, approve nao, mods". Also alot of "Under 8 is auto quicksell" people.

-Nothing is immune to price changes, get over it. If it needs to be changed, its going to be changed.

-The vote on a currency suggestion is meaningless. People see a suggestion for Keys going up and go, "NOPE, Downvote to the max", and they do similar things when Bills go down. Being objective in a currency suggestion is impossible for the average bp.tf voter, so the votes will be massively biased on said suggestions.

-Do you people even know what a quicksell is? I'll give you a hint, it involves selling things QUICKLY. When there's a seller in classifieds selling a Bills at 7.8 for 2 Days, its not a quicksell. There's this thing called Google you can use to figure out the definitions of words you don't know, I suggest you try it out next time you say anything.

-Also in classifieds, the same Bills that were unsold at the time of the last suggestion are still unsold, nearing a week now. High tier paints (like Lime, Pink, and TS) on Bill's are going unsold at 8 Keys for quite a while (up to 3 days for people too lazy to check themselves).

People are selling for 7.8 Keys more frequently recently (before anyone says it was because of the last suggestion, it wasn't. Where do you this said suggestion got its proof if it caused those sellers to appear?), and 8 Keys has been selling like a High End for a while (even before the 7.8 Sellers came around. There are simply way too many of them for sale at that price, the market is flooded and has been for a long time).

lol. Your next vote at a presidential election is meaningless, because you're being massively biased. That's basically what you're saying, right?

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/bill's

TIME TO ACCEPT, YOU CANT UPVOTE ANYMORE

cant up vote anymore to many so must accept cause people agree

2000 votes later...

How dare they drop the Bill's!?! That's the only thing in this economy with continuity.

I just sold mine for 8 keys.

The last suggestion shouldn't have been accepted, bills is and always will be 8 keys. Upvote!

Keep in mind that price ranges are mean to be "Sell at high end, buy from low-end" to a trader.

Keep in mind that this was a currency and not a normal item.

How many people price their items in Bill's hats?

Can't upvote. D:

ye alot of postive votes xD backpack system crashed :P

The number of upvotes is too damn high! http://i.imgur.com/UjQNtwG.png

so.... That's Redwall's way of saying "It's gonna eventually get more downvotes, so then I can reject it!"

That's actually hilarious though.

"The number of biased voters is too damn high!" is more like it.

then bloody accept it u mods!

I'm not a moderator or admin therefore I cannot accept it. The moderators have orange names. Blue names just means a person has donated refined/keys equivalent to $5-$10.

no i meant to the mods or admins..duh

1. There is only one admin

2. In order to avoid confusion you should either:

-a) state that you are addressing a moderator

-b) actually comment under the moderators that have already commented on this suggestion

3. Don't act cocky like you made it perfectly clear who you were addressing. Using what I stated in 2. would do you a lot better in getting a moderator's attention.

why the fuck did the price ever drop???? upvote the hell outta this

Because people have been and still are selling it for less than 8 keys...?

And why are those all immediately sold? It's because they're quicksales.

i am talk 200

Nobody cares

Learn the english language.

I am not going to decide on this price since I want another mod to look at the proof from the last suggestion and either back me up or show that I am wrong.

I accepted since there was a good amount of 7.6 and 7.8 unsold provide throughout the comments and proofs, tf2wh maxed out on bills (even painted bills) and how the classifieds are constantly filled with 8 key bills (compared to 1-2 months ago, you only saw 2-3 8 key bills up at any one time)

http://trade.tf/price/126/6

Swag has explained that his spreadsheet strips the value of paint away when it is there. So the price drop is accurate. If Brad makes the change in paint valuation you will have to leave the current lower price in place until the market adjusts to the new paint standard. I think for many items it is already.

Regardless, the trend on Bills is showing that, in general, it is dropping so you were right to accept the last one.

My disagreement has to be on the fact that under 8 is a quicksell.

Bills are currency. They have held the fact to many that they are 8 keys. 7.6 and 7.8 sell instantly because they are quicksells.

You happen to hold the popular opinion on the sole basis that trade.tf, a brand new, not necessarily that credible (yet) shows that the trend is going down. And we can't tell if this takes into account painted or not. The fact is 7.6 and 7.8 are sold immediately because they are quicksells. It may be hard to sell at 8 for some but people do without problems, as shown by my proof and other contributors. I really think 8 flat is fine.

Please try to accept the idea that what is going on with keys effects everything in the trading economy. You have to adapt to change, what used to be isn't anymore. Bills can still be a currency but maybe at a different price point. Everything has to adjust to a new normal. Maybe you don't accept Trade.tf but recognize the trend-line.

honestly i never heard of trade.tf

I remember you said on the last suggestion, "if i accept this, people will get mad, if i don't, people will get mad."

Didn't you think about how MANY people will get mad if you accept vs. how many people will get mad if you don't accept?

Everyone wants profit, and that's why so many people lowball and highball. The lowballers and highballers shouldn't increase the price of an item, logical supply and demand should. Keys raised because of this also.

Too many votes on this site seem to fall on an admin or mod deciding what the price of an item should be, not what people are actually willing to pay and sell it for.

so you're saying admins basically control the tf2 economy? I think not.

There is obviously a ton of proof already and upvote is maxed out idk why this suggestion is being so delayed just accept it already.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10955006 < things like this shows 8 keys are really hard to get.

You were right to accept the price at the time. Now that it's been lowered, a lot less traders are selling for 7.8 publicly. A quicksell buyer would be flooded with buyers if he did 7.8 if you still want to count that as proof.

1. That's painted. We've proven and said time and time again that painted bills, regardless of paint, are insanely difficult to sell.

2. You posted a 18 hr old link (21 hours old at the time of this posting)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10490200 Sold 8 keys (check history)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10369106 Offer of 8 keys 1 wep for unpainted

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10243621 Declines 7.8 offer

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10795688 Sold 4 of 5 unpainted at 8 keys each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10436699 add at 8 keys

I sold my bills recently for 8.5 keys in items. It is the key that is making the economy difficult, and if every bills owner want per then it can't be possible. I do get adds for item offers quite often and it's quite easy to for item overpay. So in conclusion, blame it on the keys.

Good news guys.... my 8 key Bills finally sold after 5 days of being on backpack.tf

Never tell your password to anyone.

Spaghettification: Hey.

sitebender: Hey hey Spaghetti.

Spaghettification: I was wondering if you'd also accept the value in items for your Bill's Hat.

Strikes me as another gift wrap situation, with it coming down to how we're defining 'quicksell'.

The votes speak too loudly to ignore here. Perhaps when there's a wider range on how Bill's hat is selling we can put in a range. As it is, 7.8-8 is an incredibly minute difference from 8, the situation has a lot left up to interpretation, and the community very clearly wants it listed as 8.

Accepting.