all the painted bills dont really count.

A majority of your proof is painted bills, what is the point of dropping the price by a single ref when the price was just updated 3 days ago, Just. Leave. Bill. Alone.

Idk about anyone else, but outpost is glitching for me and taking me to some gourmet recipe website o.O I can't check the proofs

Please tell me its on their end and not mine...

Anyway, painted bills don't count for anything, which eliminates half your proof. We have also already established 3 days ago that anything under 8 keys is taken quickly and is thus a quicksell.

There are ALWAYS Unsolds and there are LOTS OF SOLDS. UNFAIR THING IS: We cant mostly see the sold ones but we can see unsold ones.

Considering there are LOTS OF Bill's Hats you dont even have enough unsolds.

Anyways, You dont include painted bills to the thing. Same with any other item.

Paints may be counted a little, but all your proof here is about painted bills which is TOO much...

There may be some bills unsold, because there are alot of bill's hat sellers and some buy the first hat in the good price they see. (Note: some people don't care about paint so they're selling/buying it in the same price as non-painted one)

So, Give us proof of sucsessful buyers for 7.8 keys or less (but a nice amount of proof, and not old trades), because changing price of a stable currency for a long time without a VERY long and good proof may be hard.

Can we stop with the Bills?

Just leave them at 8 keys. Its the best price.

It was just changed to 7.8-8 keys and then raised back up within a few days because Bill's sell for 8 keys. 7.8 is a quicksale

Far too much proof for painted bills, not enough for unpainted, would like to know why 7.8-8 was accepted then changed back to 8 by the same person ?

Painted bill's don't matter.

Sold mine in under a day a couple hours ago for 7 keys, 4 ref and a tour of duty ticket. Sold tour of duty ticket 40 minutes later for 2.11 ref.

http://imgur.com/eHuBqk2

Downvote.

Remember the last time painted bill's were used as proof for unpainted price? It got accepted and then immediately replaced with a better suggestion that moved the price back up.

And people never get BORED with prices. It's called price stability.

I can tell you did your research, and it is appreciated, so I'm not trying to be a jerk.

However, as I've understood the economy, there are certain things that are a set currency. As I understand it, Bill's ARE 8 keys and have been a stable currency for a very long time. I really don't see any reason to change it simply because the price has stayed the same for a long time. After PEASANT changed it a 6 days ago, look how quickly it was changed back. It's messing with what a lot of people consider to be a pillar currency. Keys fluctuate, yes. Buds fluctuate, yes. But after doing a little ingame research of my own, I found a LOT of reluctance to deviate from the 8 key tag on Bills.

Again, your research is greatly appreciated. I can tell you put time into this suggestion. However, based on your heavy amount of painted Bill's as proof, I'd vote no.

Come on Bills is 8 Keys and i hope it stay there

.8 was argued against..can you just use reg bills and make it 7.9 - 8 keys..maybe it has more of a chance

Bills needs to stay 8 keys

7,8-8wtf one day 8 other 7,9 and now 8 i think that 8 is ok

I don't think it should change at all, these are not used as a hat, Its like you don't want to have 10 pound coins in your pocket you could just have one 10 pound note. bill's should not be changed. people are just asses and constantly try to buy black and white bills for 8 keys to sell them at 9. come on people don't alter it.

most of these are posts of Quickbuyers, and painted versions dont really count( since 90% of Bills are painted.) So this is not enough proof for that.

I feel like bills are fine at 8 keys, it's the painted ones that are dropping in value if anything. It's not too difficult to sell a regular bills for 8 keys

I actually have more troubles selling a painted bills than a normal bills at the SAME PRICE . (Low tier paints)

Also putting painted bill's as proof is wrong.

Well here are my opinions of this:

Quicksell-Buyers shouldn't be used for suggestions. http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/969-psa-how-to-help-identify-quicksell-buyer-trades/

The painted Bill's is rather irrelevant. Why should we bring up modified Hats when trying to decide what the unpainted Hat is? Doesn't make sense.

Some of the unpainted Bill's have some adds, or some offers that are 8 Keys in items, if not more.

Once again, painted items shouldn't be used to decide what an unpainted one is worth.

Although Bill's have definitely lost their lust and desire, I don't it is ready to make that jump into the less than 8 Keys range.

Not enough proof for unpainted ones. :D

You should probably go back to studying, you obviously need to as this suggestion is just incredibly dumb.

Protip: Education first, Backpack.tf second. That way you might actually not look like a dumb bint!

This shouldn't have been changed back to 8 keys.

Upvote.

Leave Bill's alone, the price is just right. trying to change it by 0.2 simply because people want to change a high sought after promo doesn't help at all.

why must you mess with Bills? Please let it stay at 8.

-quick sells don't count

-paint doesn't count

-more than 1/2 of the links invalid

-I sold 3 unpainted bills for 8 keys in 1 day.

Easy downvote

GL with this. Somewhere in my heart says that this will get accepted but all the haters be hating and be downvoting this suggestion.

Oh goody, yet ANOTHER troll suggestion for the Bill's Hat, with no concrete proof to back up the price. And you are trying to emulate Long218 as well. This is an easy downvote.

Oh, I wanted to mention something, oh Ye With The Short Attention Span. The last Bill's Hat vote established that paints do not count toward the pricing of this item, similar to paints on hats lower in price than this. I don't give a damn if it is a pain in the ass for you to find unpainted Bill's Hats selling for less than 8 keys, but if you can't prove that unpainted Bill's Hats ROUTINELY sell at less than 8 keys, this is just a waste of my time.

With this, I downvote.

P.S. I detest people who deliberately misspell words, and can't proofread their own compositions. Maybe you'd learn both if you PAID ATTENTION TO WHAT IS TAUGHT IN CLASS.

Today in your Bill's Hat suggestion: The angry mob v. The guy who smells like steak.

I wish you luck, KMD. There is no reasoning with the mob, and it would seem that the mods don't have the backbone to stand up against them.

There are three primary pricing factors when attempting to price a Bill's Hat Market.

1. The Hat itself. The actual demand for a simple Bill's Hat (which is what we are attempting to determine here)

2. The price of the paint itself applied to the Bill's Hat. Some paints may retain their full value. Only some.

3. The demand and preference of the paints on the Bill's hat. That is, is the painted Bill's really worth that much more along with the paint, now that the paint has been applied to the hat?

no. 3 This is my main argument for uncertainty in the pricing. Just as some hats may have lower demand, the paints applied on them will not gain the full value, although a significant number of people on outpost try to price 100% paint + 100% hat value. The Bill's hat is different. The market for Bill's Hat represents a rather wide spectrum, because some people, the seller, and the buyer may have discrepancies among the value of the paint on the Bill's hat.

If we consider paints to be of 85% of face value on the Bill's Hat, I'd have to say I'd agree with the initial proof, but at the same time, the proof is somewhat invalid, as some people have been claiming there is evidence of quicksells. The quicksell problem becomes less evident, because as the market is shifting up and down due to the liquidity of keys, pricing across other markets has been affected, such as the buds market. Quicksells will soon evolve to become the market, as more and more people are going to be trading it at that price. I would not simply out-rule the entire quicksell market yet, because it is slowly becoming the market itself.

misc.

I'd honestly wait to see the change in the market, because the price of keys is still fluid and changing. The commodity use of keys as a currency affects Bill's Hats too. Until the key market stabilizes, we cannot determine surely how stable the Bill's Hat market is, because of the standard pricing of Bill's Hat, as there are repercussions of changing prices across the board, since keys are so very widely used as a currency.

added for 7 keys?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11094310 look at how fast this sold

most of your proof is painted bills, which are falling, you are creating a suggestion for NORMAL bills only.

this is a currency, leave it be.

your painted unsolds mean nothing

painted bills galore

excuse me sir, but why are you re-lowering it to QUICKSELL prices again?

Just stop this! A 8 keys suggestion was accepted 3 days ago. -.-

Became 7.8-8 Keys. Became 8 Keys.

Now going to become 7.8-8 Keys.

Get a life and conclude a fixed price

downvoting here too, most of yourp roof contain painted bill's suggestions, and besides, the only reason why WHITE/BLACK bills are going for 9 instead of the regular 10, is because of the PAINT itself dropping!and sir, you seem to have forgotten that BILLS IS A CURRENCY. the last vote was accepted for whatever reason, an admin gone cuckoo?

if you want counteproof i will give you some.

counterproof 1: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11063961, 2nd comment shows that 7 keys + 6 ref + a random craft hat (about 2.33 ref overpay) was rejected.http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11008949, 1st comment, buyer willing to go for 8 keys.http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10733768, 2nd comment, someone willing to pay 10 key buyout on a white bill's.http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11055654, buyer offered a S.Frying Pan(9 keys and 8 at quicksell price), for a bill's.I am busy ATM, will provide more counterproof when free.

....oh this again. Bills are 8 keys, maybe there is an outliner here or there but 8 keys is just what they are

Clever Pun. whoever you are, why did you warn all these people? Could you explain? I don't think there was anything wrong with these fucking comments. And why not warn every single comment here? They are all saying the same thing: This price suggestion is the stupidest thing ever. If you warn this comment too, you're a fucking asshole dude. I'm not even kidding.

Why is this suggestion still open? So many reasons not to accept, and no reasons to accept. And judging by the fact that every one of the suggestor's comments has a negative score, this has a fairly shitty score. FINISH HIM!!

Since when did "I'm bored of the current price" become a reason to change it?

Why are you guys using PAINTED as a proof? Have you ever heard about the word "QUICKSELL?" Did you see any guys selling painted at 8.5-9 keys accepting items? i don't think so! So leave it like that. Downvote.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11099693

sold for 8 keys in 1 min

gosh man its painted thats going down omfg

lol paints are going down but the bills are always 8

"Strikes me as another gift wrap situation, with it coming down to how we're defining 'quicksell'.

The votes speak too loudly to ignore here. Perhaps when there's a wider range on how Bill's hat is selling we can put in a range. As it is, 7.8-8 is an incredibly minute difference from 8, the situation has a lot left up to interpretation, and the community very clearly wants it listed as 8.

Accepting." A Distinctive Lack of Vincent in the last suggestion.

Easy downvote, painted bill's don't count neither quicksales

Downvote, bills is 8 flat, what the hell is 7.8 keys??? and quicksellers dont count as proof, same shit 2 keys proofs..like one admin/moderator said

I SAY ONLY THAT:

7 DAY AGO VOTE FROM 8 KEYS TO 7,8-8 KEYS ACCEPTED

4 DAYS AGO VOTE FROM 7.8-8 KEYS FOR 8 KEYS - ACCEPTED

NOW BACK TO VOTE FROM 7 DAYS AGO 7,8-8 KEYS? WHAT HAVE BEEN CHANGE IN 3 DAYS?!

Its normal that smb need fast keys and they can sell under price(quick price), that was, is and will. I sold too for quick price but i sold too for normal price. Its seller choice if he/she want faster but less or longer time but more.

I think 8 keys is stable price.

Cheers.

here we go again, So now we will swap thos prices from 8 to 7.8-8 and again to 8 every week ?

no

Downvote, all first set of links are just people commenting on 'quicksell' trades they obviously need the pure and would sell it under market price for this reason.. None of the first links showed people actively selling a bills for <8keys..

Can't we just keep the Bill's at a solid 8 key price? Noone has ever complained about the price, noone said it should be higher or lower. 8 keys is the solid price for a Bill's hat. Don't try to change something that's already good.

if this get's accepted, i will gladly make it 8 keys again

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10905024

Sold mine for 8 Keys pure. Check History.

Pointless waste of time trying to drop standard Bills price by a single ref like this. Anyone selling their Bills' for less than 8 keys is either uninformed or desperate to get rid of it for some reason.

Offers to buy an item for less than its worth do not affect general prices, so all of that proof is completely irrelevant. There are hundreds of trades on tf2outpost of people trying to buy high ticket items for a key or more reduced from the accepted price on here, obviously to try and turn quick profit with them. It doesn't change the price on those items (rare stranges, for example) so why should it change Bills?

Proof is meaningless quickbuyers, unsolds, and offers. And for the record, yes, painted ones are an issue, when you're treating them at the old 'TS is 9 and White/Black is 10' mentality. Bill's have for a long time overvalued their paint, regularly giving FULL VALUE to the paint. No other item sees that. Painted Bill's progressing to act like every other painted item in the game does not indicate an issue with Bill's as a whole. Black/White Bill's starting to sell for 1 key over unpainted instead of 2 only has meaning in the prior realm of painted Bill's. When compared to every other black/white hat, it's a step towards normalcy.

That minor painted rant aside. Nothing substantial has been provided to prove the 7.8 keys side. Even if it had, we once again come back to the exact same thing that's been discussed in the past handful of Bill's. Are they quicksells? Are the vast majority still selling at 8 keys? And, most importantly, is it worth even bothering to include this tiny variation, a ref difference on a 41 ref hat? A flat price ALWAYS has items selling around that flat value, every minor weapon difference does not need to be represented.

So, as discussed here, in the prior suggestions, and in the forums, closing this. There is no pressing need to include 7.8 keys in range, a flat price always has natural variations around it. Not to mention that this suggestion has failed to prove theres a pressing need to include it, failing to demonstrate any significant number of people selling at 7.8 and instead relying on the crutch of unsolds, offers, and quickbuyers. The community clearly prefers the 8 key representation over the excessively nitpicky 7.8-8 keys, as by the votes. If Bill's is indeed dropping, save a price change for when it has done so to a substantial degree. Because until that point comes, 8 keys flat works just as well as 7.8-8 for a price guide.