Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 5.33–5.44 ref

Price Suggestion

~54.33 ref

1582 votes up

1850 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was accepted Mon, 10 Jun 13 06:15:10 +0000 by SirJjjon.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

You Clicked on this suggestion? PLEASE WAIT/LISTEN BEFORE YOU LEAVE AN ANGRY COMMENT ABOVE.

I know many of you guys aren't even going to click on it. But if you did. Listen:

I Know %75 of you doesn't want keys to increase. Neither do i.

I actually tried: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51a81d214bd7b85e0200000a .

But we can't stop this "Greedyness" Thingy. Only buyers can decide when to stop.

I'm sure everything has an END. but for now, we are not at the point that we can stop it.Maybe we are close, Who knows?

Just look at these BUYERS.

I believe that all that "Raging, #Savetehkeeeyyz" Comments and downvoting is just slowing the increase. But it wont stop it.

Buyers Can change that. 'Till they stop buying for high prices. Or Bp.tf admins decide not to track key prices. which im sure people won't

care about that after few days.

We both know someone will show up with successful buys with lower prices. But we cant rely on that. Because:

"We cant include "X"-Ref sellers/Buyers because there are buyers with higher prices" - Thats what BASICALLY Admin told me. < If you want the exact msg :

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51a81d214bd7b85e0200000a Go to the buttom. Extend J-j-jon's Comment.

Thank you for understanding. I always appreciate comments. But please. Be Kind.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Hee's a Touchin' Story. Once upon a time KEYS WERE 2.33, THE END.

BUYERS

5.33 / 5.44 :

Oh man.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10895045 - 5.44. Yaay. Dis price will increase more if this suggestion gets passed.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11283383 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395577 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11421319 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11420736 - 11 For 2 ?!?!?!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11178385 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11371407 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11428939 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396715 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11421304 - 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11383666 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11428939 - 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11428155

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11363601 - 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429052

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11424922

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11410346

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10532266 - 4.55 #Savetehkeyzzz

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11324340

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11320639

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406356 - 5.49 #Savetehkeyzzz

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11419949

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429159 - 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11390021

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11369794

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11289971 - 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429194

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11297917

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11425308

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11211656

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11371659

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11381638

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11374431

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11251644

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11408962 - 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11131609

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11393575

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11335128

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10161247

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11420125

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11252458

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11348797

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11135069

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11373750

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11068265

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11419818

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11163275

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11426376

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429502

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11238190

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11360226

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11114164

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396513

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11390300

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11357344

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9820264

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11424142

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11361670

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395009 - 5.44 For Bulk

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11156454

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11234905

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11386189

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11424884

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10714683 - 5.44 / 11 For 2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11192622

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11377540

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11331791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429614

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429618

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11319709

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11421717

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11362045

Pls Show me 5.22 buyers with understandable success. Its boring to show links which only have like 1-2 success in a week or so

^These were used but. i got rejected because of the "cooldown". so i think i can use them again?

Moar:

-http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11428844

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11376488

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11476692

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11392787

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11454039

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11218388

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10665456

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11392808

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11256792

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11369474

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11473085

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11478352 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10797121

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11468435 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11288409

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11084820

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10650767 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10859707 - Yo Michael

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429667 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11476643

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11123139

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11437022

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11022819 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10797121

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11451976

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11455613

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11354621 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11238190

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11425642

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11333524

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11478483

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11414044

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11294571 .44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11436009

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10770260

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11371802

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10901400

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11420131

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11128057

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11460162

I like how theres even not much success

can you show that it is impossible to buy keys at 5.22?

Trust me, those sort of trades happen all of the time.

I bought 3 keys for 4 ref each back when the price was flat 5.

None the less, I agree with you its based on the sellers desire for profit.

Exactly.

He kinda did.

not at all.

He doesn't need to show it's impossible. Backpack.tf ranges are not supposed to cover the entire range at which trades occur. The vast majority occur above 5.22.

I Know %75 of you doesn't want keys to increase. Neither do i.

>Neither do i.

>Still makes a suggestion to rise a price for it

Did you read the whole thing ?

This site is not about what one wants

....But i dont own any keys. nor i do any real-life trades.

My complaint is that ref is worth $.35 and keys are worth $1.80-$1.90. So, by this logic keys should only be 5.22-5.33 ref. Ref hasn't dropped in real-world value, and keys haven't gone up. So why should keys be worth more in ref? Because greedy people want more ref? No, that's why I'm voting against all key raising votes. When some proof of the dollar value of either ref or keys goes up a significant amount, then I'll vote yes.

Not all people trade with RL-Money

And ref were like 0.50$ ?

And keys were like 1.3-35 $ ?

When ref was $.50, keys were $1.30. Keys were worth 2.33 ref at this time, so it makes my reasoning accurate.

Now if you check the current suggestion people started selling for lower too.

*Refined

No, keys remained around $1.30-$1.40 well into keys being worth around 4.33 refined. Heck keys were 2.55-2.66 refined and a little higher before Brad decided to float the price of keys to suggester rather than keeping it static listing at $.45

I think you need to better check your facts before you convey them as facts.

Ref is about to drop to .32-.35 if this passes: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51ad4bfeba25361742000002

If ref does drop, I'll consider it proof. Although some of that proof was bulk buying, which doesn't count.

Just because you think its going to drop does not mean it will. That's like saying keys are going to drop (If) being the key word here!!! We lower the price of buds.

Bp.tf needs to be run with facts not if's might's or any other guessing method you plan on using. So unless it passes you have no solid proof what so ever of an increase in range for keys.

Weak argument. Do you actually think that by lowering the price of refined, keys are suddenly more affordable on Paypal? Got news for you, it doesn't work that way. With how keys have been going up on Paypal, those prices will actually be MAINTAINED and probably INCREASE. $2 for a key is a very real possibility. Hell, I can imagine Paypal closing on equaling that of the in store equivalent of $2.49

It's so cute how those wanting to lower the price of ref are also the ones defending the price increases for keys, and that by lowering the price on refined, it will be more affordable for keys. You gave the mouse a cookie, and the mouse is not satisfied with just that one cookie.

You idiots who have been seeking refined for lower prices are now reaping what you sow, and I feel justified by saying it is your fault for defending it on this site, because if you defend the ref prices going down, you can say goodbye to flipping a profit on Paypal to Steam Market, because profitability off of the keys will go down to zero the more Paypal prices close in on Market prices, and inevitably in game prices

So to review... if you defended the increase in key prices, it's your fault that Paypal prices are rising.

I am glad I am just focusing on enjoying the game, and I will grow amused as you guys go batshit crazy over the crisis of currency prices that you approved.

"I will grow amused as you guys go batshit crazy over the crisis of currency prices "

Look how much you've written compared to what he wrote. You're focusing on this way more than him so don't try and distance yourself from "going batshit crazy over prices".

What he is implying is that lowering the refined cash value lowers the key prices by 15 cents, completely disregarding those on Paypal who sell for more than $1.80.

I am distancing myself from the economic part of the game that is so stressed here, because you have no idea about how many fools use the cowardly argument that barely anyone crafts 3 refined into a hat because they personally can't picture themselves losing $1 in their virtual backpack. Now there is this falsehood that by lowering the refined price key prices via PayPal will make them more affordable. Those days are coming to an end, and you have this site to thank for it.

I could care less about key prices via Paypal, since I am not so foolish to set myself up for cashback scams, being sold carded keys, and getting myself permanently tradebanned because I don't know where the keys originated or who it was selling the keys - or both.

keys r actually 1.70 more accurate, so yeah keys should actually be at 5 ref solid

not all people trade with real money.

True, but im saying by a logical standpoint it makes sense, but doesnt necessarily reflect the direct tf2 market

What you don't realize, though, is that key-ref-bud cash market is NOT an even thing....

Keys are about $1.75, so by that logic buds should be $43.75, however there virtually impossible to sell for more than $41. While everything should work out nice and evenly, it doesn't. DIfferent items sell for different amounts, even though they're essentially worth the same (i.e. $41=1 Bud=25 keys=$43.75).

The $ value of keys has gone up over these past several months to mirror its increase in trade price. It was $1.45 not so long ago but has come up as well.

And refined dropped .50$ to .35$

Recent proof of sales under 5.33:

5.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11491726

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11489486

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11488669

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11488638

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11486316

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11485309

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11485300

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11484013

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11480819

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11479737

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11477788

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11477055

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11471415

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11467094

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11463989

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11463958

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11463485

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11461765

http://i.imgur.com/CSO5o80.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/K0gcTsN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/z2uhdkB.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mvTDpE9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bMtOWqN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/w3rzTPx.jpg

5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11479622

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11479023

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11477771

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11477324

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11472885

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11463287

http://i.imgur.com/ZLzF5VW.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/E6CBKIF.jpg

5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11491664

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11472389

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11471852

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11468467

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11458799

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11457871

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11455196

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11452734

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11452416

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11451376

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11448372

http://i.imgur.com/JvgQZV8.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dKkLsQi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/nUn1fT6.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ewhgLbe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/z96Fola.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/X64RHVn.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/C9g8sGi.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Fo2MSIy.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/az3Iu1k.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/D9qNeGN.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/f3h8vkv.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/LdXWRje.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cvADv15.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/bgP8hkf.jpg

Didn't check all, but it seems as they are all closed only 7 hours later

http://puu.sh/3ck8j.png - 2 keys @ 5 ref each

All your proof of 5 and 5.11 is pointless, it's outside both ranges.

Thats too much hate just for a "face symbol"

Forgive me, but I think this is supposed to be counter-proof.

You don't say?

Isn't that the point of changing the ranges? When such instances occur?

ok.... if u can get them at 5 - 5.11 i think u can get it even easily for 5.22, so its a good proof, out of range, sure

Oh come now. How can you say it's pointless? So many times the question is which suggestion is MORE accurate. His numerous links certainly support the idea that 5.22-5.44 is BETTER than 5.33-5.44. So I can't see how you can call it pointless. Is he picking and choosing links, sure. But he is providing a reasonable amount of evidence to back his claim.

On another note, tf2finance suggests that the key price has been remarkably stable at the current range for the past week. I don't think it's the right time to change the value of keys.

I don't see how a bunch of trades @ 5 that sold out in the time it took to post them back up a lower range. Nor do I see how they outweigh buyers at 5.44 which took a day or more to fill their orders.

But how can you knock on someone for giving proof? If people only ever showed the buyers at 5.44 ref it would only give part of the picture. It took someone a lot of effort to collect that kind of counterproof and Man of Ham is giving a not-insignificant number of willing sellers at well below that. I just think that dismissively saying "All your proof of 5 and 5.11 is pointless" is not what this website is about. Are you encouraging or discouraging people to gather proof?

If selling=/=sold, shouldn´t trades that finish faster be better proof than others that take longer time?

they got taged as quicksells and they are ignored .

With currency exchanges, there's high enough volume I'm unsure the quicksell argument makes sense.

If by definition a quick-sell is trying to sell below market price to quickly accrue resources without the hassel of selling, we must be sure of that intention. But because of the volume of the key market, I dunno if people really percieve themselves sacrificing price to create greater inefficency. These arent strange grenade launcher, there are 100's of buyers a day. I don't think that logic works

Isn't that the point to counter-proof, or am I missing something?

Point being what? If it is useless, just ignore it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't all of those very quickly resold after those sales? (I'm lazy so didn't check all of them but just randomly selected a few and realised that they were so am assuming that this was a general result.)

Generally I don't vote on key suggestions, but I must say that your evidence is compelling. Buyers who are paying more than the current low-end suggested value for keys is an interesting sight indeed.

Yes. it is too much to be ignored

2 soon. IMO, the low end should still stay at 5 refined since it is still being sold heavily there. The high range should be rising at this point.. and since it hasnt yet I'll still have to downvote.

Please just stop raising the price of these damn things!

It's impossible to escape the fate at this moment.

If you are submitting proof of people buying keys at 5.33 ( current average or "middle" Price of the current range) and 5.44, current highest Price, then the current Price range is WORKING, ranges are so people tend to pay the middle Price of the range, sometimes the low, sometimes the high. I bought a key in 5.33 and in 5.11 yesterday....

Question did you really buy all those crates with your keys? Just out of curiosity.

http://backpack.tf/id/76561198044386863?time=1369119600 ( before)

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198044386863 (after)

I still manage to buy keys for 5 ref. I made it a challenge for me to not go over 5 ref when buying keys. So far so good. I just bought one for 5 ref just then.

I have an issue about accepting these, because the proof is always solid, but all it does is raise the highballers. Then people buy these high selling prices, which the reason fails to find me.

Counter proof :

5.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11458178

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11456988

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11456875

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11456867

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11456834

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11455551

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11451146

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11451112

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11450782

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11445940

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11444492

http://bazaar.tf/trade/245693

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11432414

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11428927

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11427224

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11418322

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11412174

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11411391

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11411327

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11411257

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11409314

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11407810

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406569

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406259

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11405034

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11404772

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11461765

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11458178

http://i.imgur.com/hixHU1m.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KWlpeXP.jpg

5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11450359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11445368

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11438266

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11436788

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11427635

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11408837

http://i.imgur.com/VVCSgbp.jpg

Buyers:

5.00

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11199811

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10733878

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11190537

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10647861

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10626754

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11371149 (trade owner has bought a few recently)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11348008 (trade owner has bought one recently)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11456409 (trade owner has bought one recently)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10689735 (trade owner has bought a few recently)

5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11084453

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11150179

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11316024

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11423355 (trade owner has bought a few recently)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11194871 (trade owner has bought a few recently)

By recently I mean within the last 5 days. I added a lot of the buyers to see if they had recently bought keys and am still waiting on some to get back to me.

Proof from others:

(older but still relevant since it was after the bump)

5.00

http://puu.sh/34YSH/d143f4ab81.png

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11309725 6 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11309043 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11307600 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11306654 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11306313 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11304374 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11298984 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11297228 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11289992 11 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11291734 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11295692 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11296019 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11296418 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11280995 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11282017 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11282163 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11279110 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11275640 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11269043 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11274149 4 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11269180 10 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11329410 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11333276 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11331895 2 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11328855 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11328143 2 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11323710 6 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11321668 5 @ 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11321548 5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10722152 - buying at 5 refined has 2 new keys in his bp.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11163500 - Buying for 5 ref, 4 NEW KEYS in his bp

http://puu.sh/34YhQ.png

http://puu.sh/2XVUQ.png

http://puu.sh/2XVWc.png

http://puu.sh/2XVWI.png

http://puu.sh/2XVX3.pnghttp://puu.sh/31GDr.png

5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11308220 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11305950 2 @ 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11301314 4 @ 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11301160 2 @ 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11293918 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11283188 4 @ 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11283509 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11284132 3 @ 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11280993 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11276636 5.11

http://i.imgur.com/DMJHnth.jpg 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11327002 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11326046 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11322633 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11320515 4 @ 5.11

http://i.imgur.com/oXd7kNQ.jpg

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10844530 - Selling at 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11150179 - buying for 5.11 has 2 new keys in his bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11305470 - buying for 5 ref, but fairly new trade

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10904285 - buying for 5.11 ref. 2 comments that says they added, one saying he's selling 2 keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11127308 - Buying for 5.11 ref, has an add.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11198183 - Buying for 5.11, has a new key in his bp.

your links are old

You checked them all ??

You can check the first 7-8 links or to all (whitch you didin't) and then tell they are old !!!!!!!!!!

7 links that are good with like more than 15 irrelevant is not a good counter proof

There are sellers for lower price then current now ? YES

I dont see what more you need

Just becouse there are 5-6 days old dosend mean they dont count

All your counterproof is pointless; it's outside both ranges

There are sellers under the current price ... I dont know what more you want

I want sellers at 5 that don't get sold out in 40 milliseconds. :P

Give me 5 minutes and I will show some

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11308220 - 5 days / 5.11 ref

know what ... I'm to lazzu to do it ... however ...

That trade was closed the same day it was bumped...

For this I said I'm lazzu .. Btw no one knows if it was cloed 1 second after posting or 23 hours and 59 minutes (1 day) after posting

My money is on the latter

What in the hell that means ?

latter means the 2nd choice so cleverpun is talking about the 23 hours and 59 min? idk probably sarcasm.

It was closed within the minute it was posted. If you go to settings on tf2outpost, then you can choose under General to show exact times rather than relative times, so you can see that it was both opened and closed on: May 30th, 2013 6:26pm EST

Therefore that link is invalid and only serves to further cleverpun's point.

Shhhh ... dont let the people know xD (its a joke ... telling that for the Addmints !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Okay, sorry for informing people how to check how old a trade is and when it was closed. I figured since you said you were "lazzu" and therefore could not tell whether it was closed the second after or 23 hours and 59 minutes after; you'd like this information in order to know in the future. I didn't realize you go from serious to making a joke out of everything that goes against your viewpoint of 5-5.22 refined should still be included in range.

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

I did not know about this but it seems quite important for these key suggestions. This should absolutely be emphasised on key suggestions henceforth.

I don't see why that makes his proof invalid. I thought the purpose of this site was to show what people are actually trading items for. Clearly, people ARE still buying/selling keys for 5-.5.11. The speed in which they are sold should not factor into the legitimacy of these trades.

The purpose of this site is to inform consumers. Listing 5 in the range would be counter-intuitive because Sellers can get much more and Buyers cannot get 5 without a lot of effort

"The purpose of this site is to inform consumers."

Well then wouldn't it make sense to inform consumers of the lowest reasonable price an item can be bought for. 5-5.11 trades are certainly still reasonable and the amount of effort required to find those trades is entirely subjective.

Camping trade servers or refreshing outpost repeatedly is not "a reasonable amount" to me. If it takes one an hour of effort to locate one key for 5 ref then what is the point of looking.

In other words: Final. #DirenGeziParkı has proofed that the majority of trades happen at 5.33 - 5.44 ref, lower than 5.33 and higher than 5.44 is possible, but doesn't happen frequently

please insert "on outpost" whenever discussing what backpack.tf informs consumers about.

tf2finance and tf2trade follow more than just outpost and show that the current key price (5.22-5.44) is correct

I agree but

Those links are cherry picked (from me and others) and WAY outdated.

Any seller from 5.00-5.44 is sold out almost instantly.

Really?

5.44 solds out instantly?

Show us the proof if that price solds out instantly like a lightning.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11581127

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11581096

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11580382

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11580060

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11579889

Seem to have sold out quickly. Notice the "almost." I am also watching for trades to time.

And 5.33 gets sold in about 13 seconds, why should that be in the range?

My Outpost trade for selling one key [url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11474576[/url]

You're welcome to gather proof and suggest 5.44 flat.

Even 5.44 sells quickly. The point is that any key within or below range sells quickly and has been selling quickly because people use keys to uncrate and to purchase things etc. and they know keys will keep increasing if suggestions like this keep on getting approved.

I only see mods calling quicksales to deny counterproof of keys selling at 5ref-5.11refs, but in other suggestions people use quicksales as main proof, people call quicksales on that proof and says why, but no mod say anything, just the word "Accepted" suddenly appears at the right side of the suggestion title....

I think something selling in 1 second or less objectively counts as a quicksale...

So he shall make a new suggestion for 5-5.44

There is one open ... I "took" the proof from there

Oh ok,..the more you know

No? It's just proof that keys need to go down not up?

not really

Cleverpun, why was [T9L]™BG♥CrEePeR?ツ™ warned for his comment? It's not offensive, derogatory, or harmful to anyone in any way.

The rules say that comment spam can be warned.

Ahh.

Stating a comment that is fact and I cannot control which is completely neutral gets dislikes.

It's actually not neutral since he provided counter-proof for this suggestion which makes him able to spam all he wants. logik

Again, the point of counterproof is to allow us to adjust the ranges rather than backpack.tf admins alone

But the "counterproof" is only emphasizing how difficult it is to get keys for 5, and we already removed that from the range.

I tried it bro. check my note above.

I've already showed why all of that "proof" was bad on Ham's key suggestion. All old and outdated trades. Not a single one of them have been after the 5.22-5.44 price.

Key suggestion last acceped : 6 days ago

If you want just check the first 8 links to see they are from today ...

From trade http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11199811 down is all old, I simply assumed you just copy and pasted all of his proof since many of those links I remember. However all of your 5-5.11 proof you've shown are sellers and only sellers. We all know you can sell a key below the pricing given. This is quickselling which even then works against you as the price range does not reflect quickselling price. However I see no buyers in your proof, only sellers which supports quicksells even more-so.

Although the suggestion was last accepted June 2nd, which is not 6 days ago.

To me shows 6 days ... maybe a bug and yes I just copy paste the proof from "ham" suggestion when I saw the suggestion was accseped 6 days witch to me is almost a week ...

If the suggestion was accepted at june 2nd (3 days ago)

I'm sorry ...

Qustion : Why even people dont agree whit the keys price its still accepted ?

Because the vote is bias. That's why it's not accepted via the vote.

*Cough, cough* Taken from me and Chigga. *cough, cough*

Did not check all links again, but they seem to be all closed.

Either sold too fast or links are too old

all from over a week ago, things change, look at any key trades from the last day and its all 5.66 for sale

Outdated, cherry picked counterproof. This will surely help.

Sure, this REALLY needs upvote! Easily sold mine for 5.33, 4 people added me in a row for one key.

No one asked you ;/ :C D;

What is wrong? This is real upvote for me :D

Raising keys = alot ppl unhappy you know ?

Today you sold them,tomorrow you want to buy more but

no sellers at the price you sold them ... (Then you are one of the many unhappy ppl)

Don't harass other users. Verbal warning

Harass ????????

That was a joke lol ..

It wasn't funny. Whether it's funny doesn't matter anyway; we're trying to maintain a modicum of professionalism here and insulting other users is the last way to accomplish that.

I thought it was...

I thought it was funny, but the definition of the word 'funny' can be different from person to person.

lol get served clever.

You seem to be the only mod warning a majority of these harmless comments.

Have you tried consulting your peers?

It's getting a bit excessive, and sorry for being off topic.

Anyways, upvote.

I wrote the first draft of the rules and the admin team spent 24 days making corrections, suggestions, and edits. I personally asked every admin for their opinion multiple times.

I held a vote and 8/9 admins agreed they were ready to be placed on the site. A majority agreed they were fair. A third agreed they were enforceable.

Please don't assume that I would act on any site policy without consent from my peers, or that I don't consult them extensively already.

Thank you for that, now I know. c:

Knowledge is power after all. Carry on. c;

I ASK HIM. We are the community. we help each other. and i want this message to get warned.

(Serious ppl every where ...)

I added and the icons (;/ ;C D;) to look more like a joke ...

Btw @Final i'm thinking you dont want to chat me ... (I added you to sell some robocrates)

If it's still doable, it should be in the range. General rule of backpack is: people rarely sell at low end. Also, we don't buy keys for these prices, they are bought by people who know they can wait a month and can get a ton of profit, THAT is why there's still any buyers. And of course, keys are the primary currency (even though metal was meant to be), so people need it, and need to buy it. It will be hilarious when keys reach the breaching point where they are cheaper in $, and they crash.

"If it's still doable, it should be in the range."

This works both ways. Should be including 6 ref in the range? I say no.

Was gonna make a key suggestion, but decided not too. If any one wants too, you guys can use this:

SELLERS AT 5.44 REFINED

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11279279

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406254

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10623500

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10747980

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10971268

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11404964

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11401128

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10223365

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11163005

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11324001

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11397892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11399626

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11283741

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11233760

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11002113

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11175312

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10941746

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10591158

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11397892

SELLERS AT 5.55 REFINED

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11400329

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11332590

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11194655

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11399382

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11260227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395871

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10962314

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11078348

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10266475

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11391534

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11128226

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11253605

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10416278

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11177561

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11199772

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11403579

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11339042

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11035049

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11404045

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11334464

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11402643

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11273230

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10975940

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/7075222

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11333051

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11197995

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11186152

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11284192

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11299383

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11221595

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10630647

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11400447

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11223975

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11398660

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10833610

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11397168

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10991475

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11259860

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6786382

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11399301

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10701208

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11141519

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396469

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396989

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11299444

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396790

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11391069

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11156577

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11324668

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11131609

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11363735

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11389013

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10914525

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11260562

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11392012

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11263960

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11290718

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11320413

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10803485

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11177887

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11388910

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10580366

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11034277

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10209206

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11382561

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10549684

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11404129

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11413792

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11333595

SELLERS AT 5.66 REFINED

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406177

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9744610

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11377209

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8846644

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11363869

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406040

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11406018

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6962413

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11133337

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11374264

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395681

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11375228

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11355489

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10806553

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11282212

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11369856

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10443491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11339361

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10601319

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11363109

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11164655

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11405092

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395723

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9388259

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11309242

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11389588

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11381750

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11220531

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11143772

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11246427

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11283383

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11289081

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11300779

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11332318

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11403253

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11275237

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11172910

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10742594

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11346262

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11312720

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9182140

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11376462

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10836627

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11225913

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11404104

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10469758

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11243645

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11403768

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11153917

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11251875

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11324360

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11294602

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11172766

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10949118

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395882

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11382146

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10947812

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11310894

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11401279

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11401943

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10719627

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11401232

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10020071

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11388746

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11398833

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11398462

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11300067

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11177095

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10699598

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11334250

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11049478

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11319539

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11394754

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11046116

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11297988

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10940682

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11182775

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11245237

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11112561

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10529173

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11384096

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11161080

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11345681

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10945821

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11338229

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11205496

Buyers...

BUYERS AT 5.33 REFINED

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11405896

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11387513

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11311999

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11352870

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11285898

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396513

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11378118

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11396621

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11386643

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11253039

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11408559 – Bulks of 5 or more he pays in 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11343176

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11361315

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9928490

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11407742

BUYERS AT 5.44 REFINED

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11260227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11408612

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10443491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10962314

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11246427

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11376462

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10630647

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11161080

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11372423

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11314467

BUYERS AT 5.55 REFINED

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395871

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11275237

Appreciated.

Last link "Buyers at 5.55 Ref"

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11395871 - Where do you saw 5.55 ?

They were all accounted for last Sunday when I was planning on creating a new key suggestion on Thursday. Some of these links might have changed prices.

Doopliss, don't be the next Long with key these key suggestions or people are going to really hate you bro :c

I think that outpost key bots shouldn't be accounted for. But I don't know that's just me I guess.

Agreed. People go to the bots because it's 4am and they want keys but not many people are online (selling reasonably around that).

Either that or they go to them simply because they don't want to talk to people.

In either case, doesn't BP.TF have a rule that says you can't use Scrap.tf as proof because it's all bots? I think that should apply to OP bots as well.

Downvote :C Cause I Dont Want The Price To Go Down And Stop Going Up :C

If only admins listened to the opinions sir. Please read the message i wrote above.

This is not a valid reason to downvote a price.

we didn't know that, carry on michael

why did you write with every word with the first letter capitalized?

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ is at 5.38 and below 5.44 for a while suggesting the current range is still valid. trade.tf shows 5.33 flat for a few days now again supporting current range.

the above is not counter proof - just a data point.

btw, one thing to note. keys sell fast at any price within a current range. just as fast as trades at 5, 5.11, 5.22, etc.

tf2finance at 5.35 atm supporting current range

tf2finance at 5.34 now - trending toward 5.33 so smack into the middle of current range

trade.tf perfectly level at 5.33 as well: http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

thanks for the -1 whoever...

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ at 5.33 this morning - trend continuing

trade.tf agrees: http://trade.tf/price/5021/6

5.33 implies 5.22-5.44 range is correct

Would you rely on a Website which many people doesn't trust.

Or a ship ton of buyers?

yes, i do in fact rely on math and data from many sources over a single source (outpost) no matter how carefully collected.

i think you did a fine job of collecting proof from outpost and am just pointing out the world doesn't begin or end there.

i didnt say anything like that either. but saying again.

this suggeston is MAINLY not about the correct price. this is more about what buyers would like to pay.

"on outpost"

http://trade.tf/price/5021/6 - 5.33

tf2finance is at 5.38 and showing a very steady line: http://tf2finance.com/keys/

tf2finance is at 5.4 - highest it's been since the suggestion but still inside the current range.

trade.tf still at 5.33

neither of those sites have any bearing on the price we list.

Even ignoring it's issues with transparency and manipulation attempts, TF2F is explicitly a median; following its price means that the price should be either 5.44 flat or 5.11–6.11 (a rec in both directions). Further, it should only be used for trends, not daily snapshots, as the site itself admits.

Trade.tf has the same transparency issues, and it's graph never going above 5.33 is incredibly suspicious. I'm beginning to suspect Baloo's accusation of an upper limit being coded into the system was not far off.

Both those sites are terrible proof no matter which side they are being used on. People really need to stop bringing them up in every key suggestion.

it's not proof or counterproof - just a data point to consider.

the bp.tf methodology requires watching trades on trading sites, that being primarily outpost but trades happen everywhere. it's nearly impossible for suggesters to collect proof from trade servers because no one is going to sit around a trade server watching for "traded for" messages.

but when base64 added added RAWR trade servers to the data mix at tf2finance, the price of keys changed downward slightly and has been plateauing for quite some time leading me to believe the suggestions are missing a vital component of trading.

i don't know about trade.tf and keys, it does seem odd how it flatlined. but it has been extremely useful for me, i don't even need to use bp.tf's spreadsheet because trade.tf's one shows me what items are actually trading for as opposed to how well proven some suggestion was using outpost.

anyway, like i said - tf2finance is a data point. but it is useful when considering the current range and the suggested range.

in fact the current value at tf2f leads me to believe that 5-33-5.44 is a valid range now (where it wasn't before)

edit: BUT - it's the weekend, trade activity is higher - the drop system reset was 3 days ago and these values really do fluctuate.

p.s. your 5.11-6.11 example is pointless, we're commenting on a specific suggested range with lower and upper bounds already defined

as an side (likely to be warned)

are you going to start warning commenters for posting tf2finance and trade.tf corollaries?

as much as i hate to see the prices increase i agree...on unusual trade servers people just announce buying keys for 5.33,with no result...people dont even sell keys for 5.33 anymore

Thank you for understanding. Feel free to read my note above.

Upvote,

I had many 5.33, 5.44 offers. Hell, I even had a 5.55 ref offer.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11123577

Btw, I sold my keys for an item, not for metal.

Appreciated.

im gonna say this cus everyone says it

overpay = 5.5*0.9 = 4.95

if you people wanna apply it to unusuals it applies to currency items as well, you cannot pick and choose

uh no.... Community wants overpay on items, because they need to spend effort and time to convert those items into currencies. you don't see trades with "Overpay in keys", it's usually "b/o: __ keys, overpay in items". People want currency, since they can use that to buy pretty much whatever they want, they want overpay on items, cuz, it's a lot harder to buy an item of your choice using another item.

You know why it's called "overpay"?

It's because "overpay" is another way of saying "not paying in keys/metal/buds".

And this suggestion is about keys -> metal. So no overpayment is needed.

It's btw "unusual overpayment". I don't see any unusuals around here.

What exactly would traders ask for if they wanted an overpay in currency? That seems like you created an infinite loop where you'd have to overpay in pure what you are already paying in pure.

What people fail to realize is that the backpack.tf admins don't want the keys prices to go down, the key prices could have went down the other day, it had 257 up votes and 120 down votes but the backpack,tf admins said it didn't have enough proof but It should not matter what the admins think it should matter what the voters think. So I don't even vote cause even if it has enough up votes the admins might not think it has good proof. If i'm wrong tell me.

Actually admins are right. they are accepting. yes they are "controlling key prices" it seems. But what really controls the key prices are BUYERS. as long as they offer high prices. it will keep going up.

I agree with you

I just think its silly that people decided that the key is a currency, and then put a range on it. Like since when is country's currency a range? It should be one fixed value, and no shit like buying for a scrap cheap and selling it for a higher price, that distorts economy when done with currency..

Comparing something like the US dollar to keys is inherently incorrect, because keys are Commodity Money -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money

Keys should be used as tools not money.

Even if so as money, it should not have a range. Regardless, backpack tf is simply an observation site for the economy of tf2. The pricing is simply a positive statement.

Ah yes you are correct, thanks for enlightenment :)

You are both wrong.

PANN MANN, wrong, because real currency certainly does have a range. Go convert $100 USD to pesos at the bank, and then buy USD back with the pesos. You now have less than $100. Why? The bank charges a spread between their buy and sell prices, in exchange for the hassle of keeping pesos and dollars on hand. This is exactly like the service provided by key resellers.

If you invest time into buying (or get lucky), you get the low price. If not, you pay the high price. Simple.

cleverpun, wrong for two reasons (1) the commodity value of a key (that is, the expected value of an unbox, or 1-3 ref) is so much lower than the true value of a key that it's irrelevant here. US dollars are made from a commodity too (cotton), this doesn't stop them from being worth less than currencies that use polymer notes.

And (2) because keys aren't inherently scarce. If they are hoarded and the price spikes, people will buy more from the store. In these conditions, keys function like fiat money, but with individuals issuing the fiats instead of a central bank.

Their commodity nature is only important when unboxing is approximately neutral EV or better (which sometimes happens with a new crate; the market generally corrects this within a couple of days by lowering the value of the crate's contents. It would also come into play if a new preferred currency arose and crashed the price of keys).

1) the commodity value of a key is much higher than 1-3 ref, because new crates often have extremely valuable contents (there's almost always at least one item worth more than a key in the first week, and often more). People also consider their value higher because of unusuals, despite how low the chances for one actually are.

2) Keys may not be inherently scarce, but they are also consumed at a much faster rate than comparable real-world resources. The number of keys in circulation tends to slowly go down over time because people unbox faster than others buy keys. The steam community market also slowed the rate at which new keys enter the market, because for most countries it is cheaper than Mann Co. and well-stocked.

1) no, commodity value (or "crate EV") is the sum of all the contents' values, times their individual probabilities, minus the cost of the crate. When commodity value of a key approaches 1 key (not the typical case for a new crate -- 22% change a of a 2 key item still makes the crate a loser), supply of the high value items increases swiftly, reducing their price, and the price of the crate rises. The market doesn't allow keys to have a high commodity value for more than a short time.

Simple thought experiment: imagine a common-drop crate that produces unusual team captains with 100% frequency, skyrocketing the "commodity value" of a key. Do people stop trading with keys? Do Bill's Hat's suddenly cost half a key? No, the prices of those crates and unusual team captains converge, while the price of keys rises to a maximum of $2.49 (realistically, less).

The important realization here is that crates are the commodity money.

2) keys are not vulnerable to the hoarding, market-cornering, and supply manipulations that gold or pelts are. Additional supply is instantaneous and potentially infinite, with a hard upper bound on price. No amount of scheming will make keys cost more than $2.49. A tulip-bulb-like price bubble is not possible.

The long and short of it is that keys do not exhibit commodity money properties except in specific and transient cases. The market has unlimited ability (and unlimited incentive) to counteract those cases.

tl;dr:

- keys are fiat money, just like US dollars.

- crates are commodity money.

1) You're confusing estimated value with probable value--I'm not an economic sociologist or an economic psychologist, but it's safe to say the two are very different, at least in the context of crates.

If crates were commodity money I could buy an unusual with them. They are not inherently valuable in and of themselves, because they require keys to work, and unlike keys they are much more common.

TL;DR: Estimated value is subject to perceptions and other psychological factors. Crates are so common that they don't function as commodity money, whereas keys do (you may be right about salvaged crates, but that's a separate issue).

If you have any further comments, take it to the forums; this has gone off-topic twice over.

Good point naknak.

u know what i learnt after using tf2 outpost, is that SELLERS LIKE TO HAVE HIGHER PRICES THAN WHAT THE ACTUAL PRICE IS. So when backpack.tf increases prices than outpost does too but a bit higher so then backpack uses that as proof, then backpack.tf goes up, then outpost. I saw people at 6 refined, does that mean we should make keys go to 6 ref. NO

Proof that people on outpost are overpriced:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11363109

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11489886

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11468921

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11483623

More Proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11416711

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11328543

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11465550

Theres a lot more proof out there but i'm lazy so... ya...

We all know this, it's been mentioned literally hundreds of times, the problem is people keep buying, which makes them raise the price again. if people stoped buying keys for these mediocre prices, they'd drop, but that's the community's fault I guess.

Agreed. But we can't help it.

No, actually. In the past admins tried to lower the prices. after a day or two outpost did not care. at all and they kept increasing price and succesfully sold too.

That might have been because the avalanche was already at full swing if you catch my drift, keys were already rapidly going up, so of course, outpost didn't really think to stop. Besides, 95% of outpost is full of greed filled traders, at this point it would take a miracle to get keys to stop. Although I don't know about the full situation, so I can't fully argue that.

So y is outpost a reliable source as proof?

Because its the place where most traders trade at.

So what, should we spent hours on each trade servers tryin' to get proof?

That's how it use to work. Honestly I liked it better that way, people didn't have low ends or high ends, nor did they care to much about value difference. But you can't stop progress. Honestly, I'd much rather trust trade server prices over outpost prices, 95% of people on outpost are greedy crybabies who report you when you comment on their awful prices.

Agreed on the outpost statement. I'm lucky to find one person selling anything for less than 120% of the current backpack.tf price or buying for more than 80% of the backpack.tf price... all outpost is good for is unusual trading in my opinion. I understand that you have to make a profit but outpost is just ridiculous.

Outpost in shellnut: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9693922

Tinge bp.tf value: 2.2-2.4

Is there any rule, which says that you are not allowed to set the price to whatever you want?

I understand that the buyers are important for the lowering of key prices, but we still have to buy our keys no matter what... most of us can't just say "okay, I'm going to refuse to buy keys for this price" and just not buy them. Keys for under the backpack.tf price aren't easily accessible and a lot of the time you need them to be easily accessible. So, what do we do? We run to the nearest seller and buy the keys for whatever ridiculous price they want to sell them to us for. It's not JUST the buyers. The sellers need to stop rising their prices "just one or two scrap for a little profit".

Well sir, try to think how "Any" Economy would be pointless without profit.

You are correct, but you don't have to ask for above market price to make a profit. What I do is find people selling for LESS and resell for the actual market price in order to make a profit, which works just as well.

yup keys should go to this price because the are a lot of people buying a 5.44.

I just bought one for 5.11. Trade was only up for 2 min.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11497241

When there are tons of buyers at 5.33 or 5.44 it's pointless to sell for less so keys price should go up, unless you show us 1k sales of 5.22 this should be accepted, too many buyers of more than 5.22 so it shouldn't be in range

http://i.imgur.com/EijppZi.jpg

And I seen lots of keys go for 5.11 - 5.33 on Outpost.

It will be ridiculous if this gets accepted.

You know they get taken down quickly.

And theres another chance that they already sold in seconds and forgot to delete the classified.

There's no date on that screenshot? When was it taken?

Took it 1 hour ago lol. I can show you imgur upload date if it bugs you that much.

Not really. Took me about 30 minutes to collect these.

Actually, now that I think about it, why are people so worked up about keys becoming more expensive if you can get cheap keys off the community market? I've bought/sold a little bit on there, and sometimes get keys for 2$ each o_O

Not all people have a RL-Money Possibilities. Nor some people just dont want to charge any money to a game.

At first, backpack.tf was meant to REFLECT the price. But now, as its userbase expands, it seems as thought it IS the price. Keys should really be 5.33-5.66, as people selling at 5.66 are getting buisness like nobody's buisness, but due to the community not wanting to accept that, they're trying to use power incorrectly, and not REFLECT the price, but SET the price. I've got a few keys, I hate key prices, if the damn things just stood still I wouldn't have to constantly update my key items (eg strange amby) into a new value of ref. I wish they'd just stay still, but they aren't, and we shouldn't create an artificial bubble to try and stop it, but rather just say what's goin on.

It is still a good game.

Don't insult others.

Oh look a penny more for a key. 10/10 quality.

Hmm.?

I got insulted over internet. over a game. over some pixels. which has nothing to do with gameplay itself. Yeah, you can be sure im offended real hard.

#IDontEvenHaveKeys.

Upvoting because it is the truth with a lot of proof. I am sorry for all the sick people on here just insulting you ignorantly, I do not want keys to rise either but I understand your views and i agree with the pricing and am grateful for the time you took out of your day for this suggestion. Screw idiots.

Can we just stop already?!?! If we let the price stay stable then that would be the only price that people will buy for and sell at! Yea, they may sell for a scrap or two above the price, but that does not mean we should raise it!

Nobody must follow the prices which are listed here ffs

Nobody HAS to, but who doesn't? If they don't sell for the price here, they know that they will feel ripped off. Keys should just have a stable price, at least if people in the mannconomy want to have keys be a currency.

"Keys should have a stable price"

Oh, why do you think so? Is € - $ stable? No.

It's not my fault or the fault of Keysellers if the buyers continue buying for higher prices every time.

Dollars are not stable, but the amount of pennies/quarters/dimes do have a stable and SET price. Neither should the amount of ref to make a key change. The only things that should change are the actual ref itself and the things that are being sold in the economy.

Your point has been stated by others time and time again. This is knowledge we have already, there are key sellers for less. Those people are called "quicksellers."

Month and a week ago my friend. they accepted a reduction in price. 2 days later. No one cared at all.

Seeing your other price suggestion trying to change keys from 5.11 - 5.33 to 5 - 5.33 and the admin closing it saying that the proof was somehow setup to make it look like keys are going downs insane do you guys purposely want these to keep increasing to 6 ref +? you know how hard its going to be for beginner traders to get started and work their way up to a buds? You guys gotta lock this key price to a fixed rate its going to get to a point where noones going to buy them I stopped after they went to 4 ref + I refuse to buy em unless friends give me a good deal and I only turn them into big ticket items and never flip em. Heck I sold 6 keys for 2 ref each just so I can try to make a impact on tf2finance but its a losing battle.....

Also I laughed pretty hard about that earlier comment of the guy providing proof that keys are attempted to be sold for 5 - 5.11 and the admin basically states that since it takes too much effort to get a good deal on a key his proof is worthless? Its like no matter what we do you guys on here believe keys have no other choice but to increase.

Every key for under 5.33 ref, is a quicksell. Backpack.tf doesn't account quickselling.

then thats why people shouldn't follow their prices like a bible tf2finance tracks every key trade on op and certain trade servers so they account for "quickselling"

I didn't say people should be follow their prices. I'm just mentioning it. I would say that buying a key from a trade server is a hell lot easier than using Outpost.

Totally agree did you read what cleverpun said earlier in that buying keys for cheaper on a trade server takes too much effort and said that keys at 5 - 5.11 on op and servers as proof is pointless?

Not at first glance, but now I did. Key suggestions take a couple seconds to load than other suggestions.

How can buying keys on a trade server possibly be easier than outpost when Firefox takes up a tenth of the memory of windowed tf2, or when putting up a buy trade and waiting for adds takes no effort compared to pressing ctrl + v constantly for an hour?

make it 1-24 hours, you are not always lucky to easily stumble upon a 5-5.11 ref key seller with a butt load of competitors.

I don't spam buying keys for cheap I'm part of a trade server thats trying to make a difference on keys so we've all agreed to buy and sell keys cheaper and I'm glad that we are atleast trying instead of just shugging shoulders and accepting what highballers on op say is what they go for man

The cartel on your trade server doesn't represent the rest of the market, and it certainly doesn't have any real influence on market trends.

my question is how high you want keys to go? because you definitely don't believe in them ever going down in price just because people can sell keys for 5.33 to even 5.66 on op because either people are too lazy or too desperate for them. this trend keeps going by christmas we'll be at 7 - 8 ref a piece

My personal feelings have absolutely nothing to do with how I moderate suggestions, and the same is true of every member of our staff. The only time I ever made a key suggestion I had zero keys in my pack.

Our job is to report on what the market is doing, not what a stubborn subset of it is doing

Ive already told cleverpun this: the point of showing anything below 5.33 is to change the price, that is what this site is claimed to be for

yea but it appears they don't want them to change in any direction but up. I can find people selling keys for 5 - 5.11 all the time and thats not even people that sell cheap.... people gotta stop relying on op for all the prices

All the time... you say, huh !!!!! Can you buy some keys for me for not 5.11 or 5.22 or not even 5.33 but 5.44 please. I shall be highly obliged.

lol if you can't get em cheaper thats your fault its easy for me hang out in good trade servers and don't use op I get good key deals all the time

yeah my fault indeed, just out of curiosity may I ask how many of these good deals have you got in the past week and how many keys did you manage to buy? i would appreciate if you could provide screen-shots of the trade as-well please.

http://i.imgur.com/NLHBW7u.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/rPvMPGT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lm1meCa.jpg

Get em for 4 ref when I can been getting tougher with all these fail price suggestions.... Also if you see in one of the images I resold one for 2.66 because it isn't a big deal. your welcome

Cool, so trades of, a total of, just 4 keys in 5 days makes it all the time ?

See my above reply to SoupMod

I don't know why I bother trying to voice my opinion we all know this is going to pass just like the rest of the key prices since theres so much "proof" but anyone that reads this should know you can and will get keys cheaper if you have patience

Time is a commodity too...

It honestly doesn't take that long for me i get op is easier but if you can save why wouldn't you try a trade server? Its all good for the most part I've boycotted keys and I prefer to sell my items for ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10017344

Sadly not many carry 360ish ref for a unusual

An hour of my time is worth much more than two scrap. Trade servers are not conducive to multi-tasking.

cleverpun you might by biased from you own perspective. There are a lot of small traders who don't have much stuff and for whom getting a good deal is more important than the time it takes to get it, it's easy to forget all these people when you get to a certain level of wealth. But I've been there before, buying a few keys by looking for good deals when my backpack wasn't worth much, and trade servers where filled with people like me. Now my backpack is worth more so time became the commodity for me, but it's not for everyone.

and how wealthy are your bps? this site states I'm at 920 USD and thats a lowball and I still buy keys for cheap good deals I don't think my bp could ever get to a point where I just don't care how much I pay for a key

Back when my backpack was worth 3 USD I still considered trade servers a waste of time.

Even the goddam bots are buying for 5.44 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11494475

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10601319

5 Ref : http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11516873

Three adds in the space of a single second.

crazy well I'm glad he sold them cheap well cheap on op that is I'd try to make a key suggestion but my last one didn't go so well

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51714a47ba2536552c000017 vincent didn't find it funny

Lol your suggestion was ahead of its time, people will look back at Christmas and marvel how visionary it was.

If you want to be technical about this the first comment was in the first minute of the trade being opened, but the other two comments to do not come until another 2 minutes afterwards at which point the key had already been sold.

Key bot : does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10895045 - 5.44. Yaay. Dis price will increase more if this suggestion gets passed.

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11283383 - 5.33

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.66 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11172766)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11178385 - 5.33

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11518733)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11421304 - 5.44

Relist : does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11428939 - 5.33

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11223975)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11320639

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.66 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11468616)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11419949

Relist : does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11429159 - 5.44

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.66 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10803485)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11289971 - 5.44

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.44 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11505079)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11425308

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.66 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11469102)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11211656

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.66 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11463812)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11374431

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (within the trade)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11131609

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11427868)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11393575

Relist : does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11335128

Relist? lost track here : does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10161247

Relist: does not count

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11420125

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.44 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11275614)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11252458

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (6.00!! http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9836035)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11135069

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.44 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11163005)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11163275

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (within the trade)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11238190

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55 AND 5.66 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11482165 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11284965)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11360226

Also buys at 5.0 : does not count (http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10672176)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11361670

Same one twice in a row, 1 : does not count

{

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11424884

}

Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11141519)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11192622

Intent of Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55+ http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11430143)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11421717

Intent of Reselling = price manipulation : does not count (5.55+ http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11325246)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11362045

Its late but here you go.

Great job, you just wasted 2 hours of your life figuring this out. FYI nobody cares.

2 hours? this took 15 minutes, thats 15 minutes this guy could have used to double check his "proof"

if you have ever looked at other key suggestions and anything posted by cleverpun saying stuff like : "its not in the range!!" well, if its not in the range isn't that what this site is "claimed" to be for?

okay , a scrap aint worth nobodies time.

dude.. look at the history of keys since backpack.tf started in the course of a year and a bit it more than doubled by 1 scrap increments

aint nobody got time fo dat

wow some people on here are so snobby gj getting some good proof lucky hopefully someone will listen

What, reselling is manipulation now?

We should get rid off the pawn shops immediately. Cause they're illegal, according to your logic.

What do you mean by "relisting"? I see those links just one time.

By relisting I mean that he has the same one up there twice. Poor choice of words on my part.

If you aren't buying them for use then yes, it is the definition of price manipulation whether or not that is the intent.

Again: I see those links just one time.

If the intent to resell is price manipulation, then I think pretty much every trader needs to be banned from tf2outpost and backpack.tf. Buying something for the intent to resell is not price manipulation. Its a common function in an economy in which it is the main way people can make a living in order to truly afford what they want. If we want to talk about price manipulation and high-balling try looking at someone who is charging 2 scrap for tokens that only take 1.5 scrap to make: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/4605073 (P.S.: its you, you are guilty of price manipulation by your own standards.)

Dude, did you even read the words there?

I am selling 3 weapons, people sell weapons at 1 scrap a piece, mine are 3 for 2. If anything I am losing a scrap there

It what universe would you be losing a scrap? You can buy all the weapons you want for .5 scrap over at scrap.tf the amount of people that pay 1 scrap for weapons is so infrequent and small that's its not even worth being included in range. If you were truly losing a scrap on each deal, then you wouldn't continue to do since you backpack value would eventually decrease to the point that you caught that you were losing, but since you aren't then there's nothing being lost and you are effectively gaining the value of another weapon. If you were losing a scrap on every single transaction someone would have found a way to abuse your system by now.

How the fuck is reselling manipulating the price?

directly ...........

Change "Reselling" With "Making Profit"

Economy is Based on "Making Profit"

Anyways. tho its not what i meant to show.

more and more people are willing to do 5.33 every day.

And I'm uptading it.

What economy you're talking about? In real life if you stealing if you coin bad money you'll talk with law enforcement.

But here are people who scam unusuals with java and skype. Duplicating buds. Duplicating unusuals. Stealing accounts. etc.

People, what economy about are you talking?! Do me a favour!

Neither of resources prohibits stolen, duplicated items. And doesn't keep a close watch on this items.

This is not ECONOMY. This is anarchy.

So when you buy a 6$ McDonalds burger that takes less than 1$ to make and get a 600% profit that isn't reselling? (Sorry for the rant but this is the only example I can think of atm)

You fail to include anything where people are actually getting them at 5.0-5.2 that is biased information which is not reliable therefore this whole suggestion is bunk.

McDonald's doesn't resell burgers. They assemble it (produce it, if you want).

Definitely not reselling.

What has this in any way to do with the key price in a game? Nothing.

Agree that may be going up but bare in mind this has happened before, not sure whether it may go u or plummet below 5 keys (probably wont happen) but voting up since there are many high buyers

Suggesting the value to be 5.22-5.44

And I am suggesting it be 5.0-5.6 as that is what they are being sold for without the extremes. Someone near the top proved such.

Don't wanna raise key prices?

Then don't make a suggestion fucking raising key prices.

If i dont, sir. There are other suggesters waiting to do it.

I tried to explain it to you above. Keys price reduction is not in case atm.

I never said lower them. Raising them is stupid as well. What you're saying is that you want to be the first on the boat to wreck the community more. Let someone else do that who actually doesn't have any dignity.

you cursing and swearing on an virtual item price makes me think that you are a small kid who is trying to impress his friends.

Well said, friend.

I assure you sir, swearing in this day and age has lost all meaning due to it's frequent everyday usage.

"We all say fuck, and every time we don't, we pump the fuck balloon up until it's fucking huge, and everyone thinks the word 'fuck' is rude."

~Sammy J. - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwoaKWa2PdE

Now please, rising key prices this frequently is redundant. Please, for the love of god, don't make suggestion for key prices at all until everything gets settled.

I DONT CARE

I HAVE RED HAIR

..How is that even related?

The price is too low, I sold 8 keys at 5.55 within 10 minutes of posting the trade.

The community is so against keys increase. its coming slowly.

I don't blame them, its getting harder to make any profit off them because the market is so volatile.

i really think it is time for 5.55

Meh

You're always welcome to make a counter suggestion...

waiting for this suggestion to get something

June 1st 2012 - Keys were 2.5 ref at 1.30$

June 7 2013 - heys are now 5.22-5.44 ref at 1.70$ this is a 125% increase, while the dollar value has increased less than 50%.

Someone here is making a killer profit with the keys Very Recent rise in price.

this econmy is flawed severely and Backpack.tf being the leader in price suggestion for almost every form of tf2 trading needs to start looking into this.

Moderators and Admins of this site are Accepting these increases on a regular basis and there is no need for this. if the dollar bill fluctuated as badly as this, U.S. would already be in another depression.

I look at tf2 economy like is a small country. What caused this inflation. it has been over the course of a year. Someone started this and has an endgame plan for it.

Here is a lil Factoids for Everyone

Nov 1 2012 - keys were 2.67 ref @1.25$

Feb 24 2013 - keys were 3.78 @1.30$ - That 1 ref increase with only.05 increase in Monetary value. thus 1 ref only amounted to $0.05

April 23 2013 - keys were 4.89 @1.65$. That an increase of 0.35 in dollar making the one ref worth .035

June 7th 2013 - keys are 5.33 @1.70$ That is about .55 ref increase with 0.05 increase. Rounding this up to A full ref increase from last price cause this is a bit early. 5.88 ref at 1.75$.

So in about 1 year the price of a key went from 2.67 to 5.33-5.88.

and its dollar value went from $1.25 to $1.70-$1.75.

thats about 133% increase in Ref.

and about 45% increase in Dollars.

Something is wrong here. Going on the current trend of Cost of Private keys versus Mann co bought keys, Keys will be worth 9 ref @ $2.55

And still going with the trends of Increase by end of september this year beginning of October keys will reach their maximum of 9 Ref.

Backpack admins you need to consider what is driving this and see if it can be stopped. Spreadsheet was found to be greedy with their prices. You may not be greedy but if you're not properly considering your price changes your being just has harmful as someone who would manipulate this economy.

Also between 6/30/11 - 2.33 @1.75$

and 6/25/12 - 2.50 @ 1.30$.

Which means for a yearly jump by 6/26/13 - 2.88-3 ref @ 1.50$

It doesn't hurt to do a little history here.

Feel Free to Argue here as well http://steamcommunity.com/groups/EveryDeadlyIntetion/discussions/0/864969953311633001/

I used http://tf2finance.com/keys/ as a refrence

yea you know somethings not adding up if keys barely changed in price for about 2 years then all of a sudden within a year it doubles in price

Nothing I didn't know, but thanks for explaining it to others. I know how economy works, have dug into the deepest of this and can say: This is just some simple artificial inflation bullshit. Keys are going to crash VERY SOON. I even have a humongous amount of people sort-of indirectly behind me. I can't really tell what that is because it's confidential.

And anyone who deals with keys would think you are making straw man arguments, when pretty much it has been the same thing I have been trying to say since October (with little success) that this makes no sense. Equally frustrating is that this site, when it became the primary economic standby, absolutely refused to put a cap on prices, and are instead supporting the prices, which is supported by nonexistent hype.

Anyone supporting the keys going ever so much higher in price would tell you that this is how capitalism works. Nay. This is how price fixing works. And with almost all of the key increases getting less than half the community's vote, this is still extremely unpopular.

Trading used to be easy and convenient. Now it is an extreme pain in the ass.

Can you also look for the prices before and after backpack.tf?

In the days of spreadsheet keys were 2.3-2.5 max.

The minute backpack.tf started these keys went up with 1 or 2 decreases in its history.

I will look into that. any other ideas feel free to add me or send them to me

Another 5 Ref: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11532563

those trades don't last for a day.

those last for a minute or two then ge closed

Um, so 5.3s don't last a few minutes? A lot of what is up there is a re-post of when the players got metal again, look at their trade histories.

Well I love keys and I don't want them to go down but I guess this is alright

im not buying for more than 5 ref anymore, have bought alot for that price on trade servers.

Another proofs:

4.66 Ref : http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11537142

4 Ref : http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11539352

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11539819

3 Ref: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11539048

I know that last one can be fake

All quicksales, got sold out within seconds

I will laugh when the TF2 "economy" crashes because of the key price raising. You know why the price keeps increasing? It's because of sites like backpack.tf and spreadsheets. People will use their prices, and sell a little bit more than what the site actually says, while buying for less of course. Sites like spreadsheets and backpack will then inflate the original price, then the cycle repeats. It's an endless cycle that will doom the tf2conomy.

TF2 economy will NOT crash, just it will become like Valve intended: Keys being bought just with money, with keys raising just the petty ítems valued in refined are losing value, all ítems valued in keys and buds are secure since the rise of keys and buds are implicit rises for these ítems.

so i'll just tl;dr the trade

i don't want keys to increase. so, i'll increase the keys

i don't know about the others but i certainly don't understand.

You ARE the problem if you make key suggestions. If it was actual popular vote i would be (somewhat) ok with the key raise. markets fluctuate, there's no mistake in that. But time and time again, the key raises get pushed to acceptance by the administrators, regardless of votes.

What are you talking about?

umm i don't exactly know which part of my comment you're talking about so i'll just guess

it doesn't matter what you vote, the admin is the actual force that accepts or denies a trade.

he said he fought against key raises but supposedly gave up due to the abundance of counter proof to key lowers.

also

i removed a lot of my comment because it was a bit preachy, so it kind of removed the guts of my argument. all i left was the beginning sentence and end sentence of the last paragraph

I didn't understand any of it.

yea looking at it with a fresh head its a bit confusing.

main points: the suggester is a hippocrite and backpack.tf is not a democracy

Ok. Fair enough.

You replied to an off-topic comment with a short phrase that appears to be basically rolling your eyes at the comment. How do you not view this as aiding in an off-topic discussion? Also: Learn to hide your words better. I am elite, bro. highlight this reply.

Your comment also is off-topic. You're not an admin, it is up to them to decide what is on or off-topic.

Bad ideas. It was funny at first.

Would you care to notice how pretty much every single comment in this whole block (including several above me) has been warned? This is why I never ever comment on key suggestions.

Everyday a vote rising keys price? Sorry but downvote, i buy and sell keys everyday and i think this dont represent the real market.

could you please describe the 'real market'? im not upvoting or downvoting, but im just curious as to why this doesnt represent even a small part of the real market.

Take it to the forums, there's already a topic for complaining about/praising me

i suggest getting used to it, no offence but it is in the new rules. however i do agree it is very ironic, i spent 15 minutes reading through most of the comments above and there are plenty of comments that go 'unwarned' for no reason whatsoever. and when somebody does get a warning they can be on topic and still risk getting banned, even though theyre on-topic.

and to avoid getting another warning (id like to not get another warning within these past few weeks) ill say, keys keys keys, proper shame what theyve become. and i love your style final! "Here's a Touchin' Story. Once upon a time KEYS WERE 2.33, THE END." thats classic.

5.44-6 ref

People are selling for more then what the keys cost and you keep moving the price up! Keys can go up forever because you get these people selling for either a scrap or few above their price range. I remember when keys USED to cost 2.33 - 2.55, i really want that again!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11586231 5.33 - sold instantly

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11586035 5.33 - lots sold instantly

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11585717 5.33 - sold instantly

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11582757 5.33 - sold INSTANTLY

keys for 5.33 sell INSTANTLY if I wasn't clear enough.

There is a reason here.

Since the price (5.33) was released people made some profit by selling it by (5.44) or (5.55). That makes people on backpack.tf change the price

key 5.22 x .35 c =1.87 $ no way it can change and its actually .11 high on range !

If im not readin this right let me know

What you don't realize, though, is that key-ref-bud cash market is NOT an even thing....

Also, selling Ref for $0.35 is difficult.

Oh crap, a second warning? Now I have to find out how I can circumvent a third one for the rest of this suggestion.

I guess we can pass this thing now that it's been 7 days between suggestions? I've been upvoting on this key suggestion since the very beginning on the sheer basis that I believe it's time. Sales still happen for 5 ref, but proof for them have been provided for the last two suggestions and they've still gotten passed. If it gets rejected, nothing bad happens except for a lost reputation point, which I have way too many of.

That is all I can say for now. Leaving until it gets pushed through the ringer.

i don't agree a lot, but there are lots of proof so i agree

http://trade.tf/spreadsheet median at 5.33

it's capped at 5.33

Seriously? Price go up. Person wants to make a 5% profit, suddenly think that's new set price. Repeat. Lets just go ahead and make the price 1 bud to get a key. It's seems like what it's slowly, but surely, reaching to.

Suggestions aren't to increase backpack value, in fact, any suggestions that make it blatantly obvious that they are trying to manipulate a price for their personal gain get closed as soon as a mod sees it.The suggestion is placing a new price for this object, one that is much more well-suited for the key.

Be careful, no .5 scrap change still applies but since I was away this week I could not close this suggestion. But now that its a week after, this price is pretty accurate

"But we can't stop this "Greedyness" Thingy. Only buyers can decide when to stop."

No, this site is THE reason keys went up. (well, here and other pricing sites)

Every time some sees someone trying to sell a key for ONE SCRAP profit, someone runs on here and makes a suggestion, IT'D BE FINE AS IS, IT SHOULDN'T CHANGE ONE SCRAP AT A TIME.

And then this site which is supposed to be on prices, has its moderators and such approving suggestions with massive down votes for raising, and denying drops with high up votes. Yes they have proof, BUT THE COMMUNITY HAS DECIDED IT DOESN'T CARE ABOUT THE PROOF. Keys should have never rose past 2.55.

I do admit that it also partially the community's fault for continuing to buy them, but people look here for their prices