Suggestion: The El Jefe at 0.9–1 keys

Price Suggestion

The El Jefe

Submitted Sun, 16 Jun 13 04:29:03 +0000 by ★ jymotion

60.71%

1 key

0.9–1 keys

~1.83 ref

493 votes up

319 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed Tue, 18 Jun 13 20:00:16 +0000 by An Average NTR Enjoyer.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51bd30ddba25369431000006

2 months old. people seemed to be opposed to pricing it in ref, so I converted the currency. 0.9 keys = 4.88 refined (lower than I intended). Please don't complain about using 9/10 in the range.

classifieds: http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/539/6/0/1 - http://i.imgur.com/m521fAN.png

1 selling for 5.11 ref

22 selling for 1 key

Selling/sold for less than a key in the last 3 days:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11769896 - 4 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11757111 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11755200 - 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11752960 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11749597 - 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11747936 - 1:1 w/ aqua flops

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11740563 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11727842 - 4.33 (bought by me)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11720640 - 5.22

http://i.imgur.com/VD6JUR2.png - 4.88, 5.11

http://i.imgur.com/5feOgEt.png - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11726982 - 5 ref ( http://i.imgur.com/GSbCTUg.png )

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11751535 - buyer successful at 4 ref

sellers at 1 key to keep an eye on:

all from the first page of sellers on outpost

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11660698 - 4 days

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11777991 - 2 hours (new)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11737739 - 1 day

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11601702 - 6 days

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11414811 - painted green, sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11200227 - 2 weeks

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11725726 - 1 day

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11719392 - 1 day

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11770889 - 7 hours (new)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11757703 - 15 hours (new)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11749770 - 22 hours

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11749520 - 22 hours

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11780092 - new

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11780086 - new

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11762120 - 12 hours

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11684982 - 3 days

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11775423 - 4 hours

there are 200+ sellers at 1 key or less from the last 3 days ( http://i.imgur.com/PDnpLdX.png ).

trade.tf price graph, if you choose to follow it: http://trade.tf/price/539/6 - fluctuates between 0.81 keys and 1.00 keys

Just because you sold one for a key, does not mean that it isn't easily feasible to buy for less.

"COUNTERPROOF

Sold for 1 key

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11766766

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11763563

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11760353

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11756491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11756036

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11754354

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11754126

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11751208

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11751074

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11750435

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11750045

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11746287

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11746611

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11743289

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11736614

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11735878

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11733712

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11733671

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11732355

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11731284

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11727660

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11727160

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11723820

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11723625

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11723197

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11722151

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11721808

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11719779

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11719177 "

- Phanatic from the previous suggestion

Just wondering, how is it counterproof if it's in the range?

I guess it isn't as relevant now that I priced it in keys, but I suppose some may still argue that the number sold at 1 key outnumbers sales below it enough to warrant a flat price.

The number sold at 1 key does significantly outnumber any number of sales below 1 key.

Agreed

Since Vincent closed the last one and suggested converting it to refined, maybe it is something the mods should discuss amongst themselves. 5 ref is so longer an acceptable substitute for 1 key, as Vincent had argued - http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51aa897eba2536514c000014

edit: heh, looks like you recruited grimdercell to tell the suggester to close that one as well

You can't base prices on quicksells. 0.9 keys is a little awkward and largely unnecessary.

Selling/sold for less than a key in the last 3 days:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11769896 - 4 ref Obvious quicksell

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11757111 - 5 ref Seller wanted to sell below market price "cheap!"

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11755200 - 4.66 Sold pretty quickly (before a single bump)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11752960 - 5 ref Sold pretty fast

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11749597 - 4.66 Sold very fast

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11747936 - 1:1 w/ aqua flops

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11740563 - 5 ref Sold fairly quickly

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11727842 - 4.33 (bought by me) Obviously a quicksell

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11720640 - 5.22 Sold pretty fast

http://i.imgur.com/VD6JUR2.png - 4.88, 5.11 4.88 ref seller sold fast, 5.11 ref still open

http://i.imgur.com/5feOgEt.png - 5 ref Sold pretty fast

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11726982 - 5 ref (

http://i.imgur.com/GSbCTUg.png )

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11751535 - buyer successful at 4 ref Quicksell

Look at the last update for the graph

http://trade.tf/price/539/6

Median price: 1.00 key

and a few hours ago it was 0.92. like I said above, it fluctuates.

That's why 1 key flat works just fine. I really see no reason to change the current price. There just isn't enough sellers below 1 key to justify a change.

>a few hours ago it was 0.92

>that's why 1 key flat works just fine

I guess we just fundamentally disagree on how items should be priced here.

If I were to enter the market to buy a genuine awp, it would be very easy to get one for less than a key. That is what I am trying to represent in my range.

Neither of us are presenting new arguments. I suggest we leave it to the voting and moderation.

Anyway, trade.tf isn't a reliable source and shouldn't be relied upon to be the main proof of a suggestion. From links on outpost, the majority of sales happens at 1 key.

I'm not relying on its spreadsheet at all. It's a footnote that actually includes the words "if you choose to follow it".

I am not denying that there are more sales at 1 key than fewer. I am arguing that there are enough sales to represent it on the spreadsheet as a very feasible buying price.

Unless you have any new arguments against the proposed range, I'm going to leave it to the voters and moderators.

Please don't spread false rumors: trade.tf is pretty reliable.

The reason why it's not (and should not be) used as sole proof is for both spreadsheets to measure values independently and cross-correlate each other.

more below 1 key since OP:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11783795 - 4.88, unsold for 10+ hours

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11783136 - 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11796851 - selling for 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11788454 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11786161 - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/NipCM71.png - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/i8HU1s5.png - 5 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/261971 - selling for 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11800696 - selling for 5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11802403 - purple painted for 1 key

Notice how most of those links have sellers saying "quickselling" or "add for fast trade"

and notice how some are unsold. any other item, these sales would be considered valid proof of a range, but people seem to have an irrational attachment to having items equal exactly one key.

we've both made our arguments, phanatic. just let the voters and mods decide.

lol i don't have an "irrational attachment" to items in prices of 1 key. I already attempted to change that with the gen Awp and successfully did it with the Pink paint. I sincerely think that anything below 1 key is a quicksell or is close enough to 1 key to keep the current range.

that is your opinion. I appreciate you sharing it. I don't know why you said "current range" when there isn't one, but I disagree regardless. we've gotten to a point where 0.1 keys is more than half a refined. we aren't going to come to an agreement, so I'm going to leave it be.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11818500 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11821020 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11835068 - 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11832473 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11827004 - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/MAThQzj.png - 5.22, 5.00, 5.22

http://i.imgur.com/MxibfU1.png - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/2sdyfLP.png - 5.11 ref

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9550596 - 5 ref, painted

http://tf2deal.ru/trade.php?id=25679 - 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11844866 - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/miLTGV2.png - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11842715 - buyer immediately successful at 4 ref (outlier)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11851074 - 4.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11853175 - reselling for 5.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11853139 - 2 @ 5 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11850046 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11850804 - 4 ref (outlier)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11849017 - 5 ref

you're just making it hard for people to check the price of an item, especially for new players/traders. who cares if the trades happen at keys or refs, the price is still the same. just to check an item's price i would have to count it with a calculator, that's dumb. 0.9 keys, wat in the dear love of god is this.

0.9 keys is 4.88 refined. If you dont care about saving half a refined an can't bother to type "convert 0.9 keys" into the search bar, then you can just pay the high end of 1 key

Most of your unsolds sold by now. Downvote.

I don't see the sense in your reasoning, but thanks for voting.

That they sold for a key, and you're acting like they're hard to sell for a key.

I'm not acting like that at all. I'm showing that it is quite easy to buy for less than 1 key.

.9 is such an ugly number when keys are concerned :/

>_> exactly why I priced it in ref. there's no winning! haha

Why was everyone against the ref price? its alot nicer than a range with .9 in it

they argued that more trades occur using keys as the currency than refined, which certainly has merit. This is an issue because it determines if the price of this item changes when the price of keys changes.

how do you trade .9 of a key in keys? thats.. impossible. Unless you ask for change back.... god my brain hurts

It's a lot nicer as 1 key flat.

we get it, mate.

Only 1 5 ref trade still open, and non-donator trade. Downvoted,

because the others sold for less than 1 key

that being said, you are welcomed to vote how you feel. I'll be keeping this one open.

very quickly. quicksell.

competition drives prices down. there are dozens of sellers, if not more, trying to sell for 1 key. what you call quickselling, I call competing. As I said to Phanatic, as a buyer, it is very easy to buy this item for less than 1 key.

Eh, this suggestion is just going to turn into the next gift wrap.

I honestly hate the attention this and the awp suggestion have/will bring, but I think both buyers and sellers should be represented on the spreadsheet. I don't feel the current price does that well.

Indeed, with another counter by me if it passes (well if I'm first)

Seriously, it's pointless. DarkGenex did this range before, and it was closed due to the vast majority of sales happening at 1 key.

Yes, the majority of sales occur at 1 key. The minority occur at 0.9 keys. Sales occur at both, and so we have a range. it is very easy to buy this item for less that 1 key.

edit: quote from vincent, when he closed DarkGenex's suggestion: "My personal opinion would be either to switch to refined so that the 5 ref sales and willing sellers can be properly accomodated or leave at 1 key flat and treat the 5 refs as acceptable variations around that flat price."

You guys were vehemently opposed to using refined, so I switched to keys. Keys have risen since that time and 5 ref is no longer an acceptable substitute.

I am telling you, 1 key sells just fine and more sales happen at 1 key than anything below that in ref.

Sold for 1 key in the past 2 days

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11802905

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11802032

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11801480

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11793330

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11792773

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11791127

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11788003

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11785485

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11784508

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11784142

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11775799

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11775423

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11766766

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11763563

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11760353

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11756491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11756036

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11754354

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11754126

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11751208

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11751074

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11750435

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11750045

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11746287

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11746611

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11743289

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11736614

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11735878

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11733712

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11733671

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11732355

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11731284

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11727660

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11727160

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11723820

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11723625

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11723197

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11722151

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11721808

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11719779

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11719177

Jymotion please stop suggesting 0.9 - 1 keys insead of 1 key, most of the items at 1 key sell a bit for lower, a bit for higher and MOST at 1 key, and even if it needs a drop 0.9 - 1 is a horrible way to do it

0.1 keys is more than half a refined. there have been items priced at 0.9-1.0 keys before. I have already gotten the okay to make this range.

Doesn't mean it's not a horrible way to do a drop, especially when right now you have 2 suggestions and both items sell 100 times more at 1 key than lower

How is it a horrible way to drop it? I was criticized for converting it to ref.

Do you have a source for that "100x" stat?

It's a way of expression and you know it, also when the items you try to make 0.9 - 1 instead of 1 sell much more for 1 key and also sell fast for 1 key that makes above and below outliers, you can find for a bit lower and you can sell for a bit higher but MOST trades happen at 1 which should be the price, especially when lower sells as quickly as anything considered a quicksell, which shouldn't affect price

they don't happen higher, though. they only occur lower. multiple times a day. you aren't presenting any new ideas, so I'm going to leave this be.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11719177 sold for 1 key.

a lot more sold at 1 key in the previous failed suggestion as well.

I haven't removed 1 key from the price. Which "failed suggestion"? The one I closed myself to change currencies?

Well can you please provide more proof of sales at 0.9 keys since a lot of your 1 key links have been sold.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11818500 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11821020 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11835068 - 5.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11832473 - 5 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11827004 - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/MAThQzj.png - 5.22, 5.00, 5.22

http://i.imgur.com/MxibfU1.png - 5 ref

http://i.imgur.com/2sdyfLP.png - 5.11 ref

fair enough.

please suggest a new price with refined not keys, because the keys are going up price like every second, by saying that I mean if the keys go up, this hat will go up too...

this hat has been linked to the price of keys for the last 5+ months

Honestly, I don't think this is necessary. Counterproof in comments show very many sold at 1 key, and most of your selling for lower trades have sold already.