Suggestion: Genuine AWPer Hand at 0.9–1 keys

"Oh it's 0.9-1 keys so I guess that means that I should easily be able to buy it for.... uhhh..... hmm... *get a calculator out* *type in 5.3889 x 0.9*

"Oh, I can buy it for 4.85 ref, which is about 4.88 ref."

Besides the fact that 0.9 keys is inconvenient, it is quite simply a quicksell price.

Find me some open trades where 5 ref takes a decent amount of time to sell or provide tons of links of already sold trades at 5 ref and you will win me over.

to be completely honest, I'm not desperate to win you over. we have fundamental disagreements on how items should be priced.

it isn't fair to complain that I priced the item in ref, then complain about its conversion in keys. if it is too inconvenient for the user to type "convert 0.9 keys" into the search bar at the top, then they can contact one of the dozens of sellers trying to get a key for the item and simply pay the high end.

I agree, we have a fundamental disagreement.

What you consider valid proof for a price decrease, I call everyday quicksells below market price.

Hey. You did a pretty good job.

more below 1 key since the op:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11785357 - unsold @ 5 ref for 8+ hours

http://i.imgur.com/cirX6Zp.png - unsold @ 5 ref for 6+ hours

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11795407 - sold 5 ref

buyers:

offering 5 ref - added within 9 minutes: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11796187

offering 5 ref - closed after 2 hours, 2 in bp: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11789665

offering 5 ref - added 3 hours: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11783638

offering 4.66 - 1 bookmark, keep an eye on it: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11780953

offering 5 ref - added within an hour: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11768819

lol the 3rd 5 ref seller even said that 5 ref was under market value.

a seller said that his price was low and that people should buy it? that's certainly something to base our spreadsheets off of.

the mean value of my suggestion is 5.11 ref. 5 ref would still be less than that.

many people assume the backpack.tf value is "market value". I'm showing that several trades occur below that value and that a range is necessary. there wouldn't be this drama for any other item, but people seem to have an irrational attachment to items equaling exactly one key.

worth noting that after 10+ hours of failing at 5 ref, the second seller has lowered his price to 4.66 ( http://i.imgur.com/M1tK712.png )

new at 5.22: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11803285

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11825129 - buyer successful at 5 ref within 10 views

http://bazaar.tf/trade/263945 seller at 4.66

I saw this suggestion and had to comment, this doesn't justify decreasing the range by 0.1, moreover you shouldn't even be allowed to decrease a range by 0.1, it's just silly and a clear waste of time if there isn't proof showing a greater reduction is necessary.

We've gotten to a point where 0.1 keys is more than half a refined. I don't find that amount of metal to be silly or a waste of time. There are multiple opportunities every day for buyers to buy for less than one key and I feel that should be represented in the spreadsheet.

that range gave me cancer.

You have proof of ref sales. Why isnt it in ref? Also, more proof of people selling at 1 key would be nice

Phanatic will be here soon enough with sales at 1 key :P

ah kays.

maybe not. was a bit of a guess/joke from the el jefe suggestion.

there are enough listed for 1 key that I assume sales do happen. I don't have enough proof to remove it from the range.

fair enough.

Here I am.

Given the volatility of keys, I don't see an issue with listing .9 in the range (and we have before http://backpack.tf/vote/id/518652ab4bd7b8845500001b totally not biased)

If .9 key trades really are quicksells, then some buyer trades would be helpful evidence.

added a few links above

I'm totally not biased either, but really: Prices below one key MUST be in ref. If not I'll counter. If this passed I'll make a new suggestion. Don't see this as a threat, but just as a general hatred to these ranges.

See the comment by Baraklava: I think they summed it up quite well.

so why don't you close it :D But in all seriousness, as you've personally experienced, I hate these ranges.

I tried to price it in ref. I was criticized for changing the currency and affecting the future value of the item.

dat range

dat useless comment

Be productive, your comment did not accomplish anything.

Sold 3+ for 1 key each pretty easily (under 1 day) in trade servers roughly around 1.5 weeks ago, can provide screenies if requested :)

Normally when there is a range less price it's normal to have deviations from it.

Ill have to down vote

it's worth noting that the deviations are only in one direction. they don't sell for more than 1 key, but they often sell for less.

Why would anyone buy for more than a key when it's a pretty common item that is easily sold for a key? There are deviations under the price because sellers want to quicksell.

I didn't say there should be. I was just stating a fact.

Imagine this: you want an item. you are in a room with 20 people trying to sell that item for 1 key. what do you do? some people might pick a name out of a hat and pay that person a key. a consumer with a bit of trading sense would instead say, "how many of you are willing to sell it to me for 5.33/5.22/5.00 ref?" that buyer will very likely be able to buy at a price lower than the common asking price. that is not a quicksell/quickbuy. that is competition.

This site is supposed to reflect the equilibrium market price.

We don't simply include every single possible price that an item can sell for into a range, or we would get some crazy ranges. Rather, it is a general guideline that people can follow and know how easy it is to sell at a certain price.

I will say this again:

More sales happen at 1 key than at any other price below that.

A range of 0.9-1 keys implies that an equal number of sales can be found at 0.9 and at 1 key. That is simply not the case.

more sales occur at 1 key. enough sales happen below to be represented.

you and I should debate on tv. we are very good at filling up time by saying the same things over and over again.

Agreed. We should have a talk show. xD

I have made my point.

You have made your point.

Now, we leave this up to the voters and mods.

im going to have to upvote. these sell at both a 5 ref and a key. The thing is if we convert it to ref we're going to have to update it every week i think its easier this way.

You really should have done it in ref, not keys.

Nope, the majority of sales happen in keys. Also, the price of this item changes with the price of keys if you look at the history of suggestions.

See the comment by Baraklava: I think they summed it up quite well.

I originally did price it in ref. I was criticized for changing the currency and affecting the future value of the item.

The thing is it actually IS possible to sell something for below 1 key in keys. I sold mine for a key and I gave him a rec extra, making the price 0.97 keys, right?

But that only goes for trades who only wants keys. As far as I've seen, anything below 1 key go super quickly so I'll stay neutral.

1 key sells perfectly fine. No need for a range.

More sales at 1 key in the past day

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11816110

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11816756

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11815945

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11814548

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11811838

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11812624

http://bazaar.tf/trade/262555

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11807101

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11806699

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11804162

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11803013

http://bazaar.tf/trade/262114

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11801986

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11800873

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11798966

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11797852

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11788719

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11788898

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11788120

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11788431

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11779496

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11782373

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11782387

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11777892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11777130

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11775229

Notice how most of the trades have less than 10 views.

Sold one pretty quickly after putting it up at classifieds for 5.33

Guy gave me 3.33 and a Fancy Fed tho.

http://prntscr.com/1afii0

Sales outside the range always happens. But the majority takes place at 1 keys and this is unnecessary.

Downvoting

there currently is no range and the "deviations" are only occurring in one direction (less than 1 key). It is not only feasible, but actually pretty easy to buy the weapon for less than 1 key, which is why I made this suggestion.

thanks for voting

This item sells easily at 1 key why would you lower the price?

It can be bought easily for less than 1 key. Why shouldn't that be represented in the price?

Seriously, there are 50 comments in this suggestion. If you pick one at random, it would probably answer your question.

your car can be bought for a cheaper value than its worth too... obviously, but if it can be sold at the higher price easily why would you lower your asking price? I own none of these, but have sold 2 in the past couple of weeks easily for 1 key... on this website...

I would lower my price if I was surrounded by dozens of people trying to sell an identical car at the same price. what an awful comparison.

and I was able to buy one for less than a key very easily. both prices are represented in the range. please just read the other comments. you aren't presenting anything new.

if it gets below 1 key it really should go to metal instead no?

the arguments for keeping it in keys was that the majority of trades involve a key and the value of this item rises as keys rise.

i guess, but what is 0.9 keys? there should be an option to make the range in both keys and metal and choose what it rises with

4.88 ref

you can type "convert 0.9 keys" into the search bar at the top, or hover over the price to see the average

old mine for a key 6 hours after I made the trade

eh downvote shouldn't be that easy to sell something at the top of the range + phanatics counter proof was good

Just today I've sold multiple items at the top of their range in less time than that. A sample size of 1 is not a good basis for a vote.

Buyer trades show that it is very easy to obtain this for less than one key. Seller trades show that 1 key deserves to remain in range.

A lot of the buyers seem to be buying to resell, but that doesn't affect the validity of the range--lots of item ranges we list follow the same pattern of buyers at the low end and sellers at the higher end.

As noted by others it is very possible to pay in keys while still paying less than one key via change. This is especially true of things like gift wrap or G items where there is so much seller competition.