Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 5.33–5.55 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

1648 votes up

648 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed Sat, 29 Jun 13 20:27:23 +0000 by SirJjjon.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Counter Suggestion. < As far as i know "Cooldown 3 days" Doesn't effect that!

I'm Open to any kind of discuss. But don't be rude over some pixels please.

Dear Admins/Users Of backpack.tf. If you could take your minute and read this it would be nice.

I'm sure it will give you a better idea than looking at the proof. Thanks.

I'm sorry but, Last suggestions proof was already in the "old current range".

Our range was 5.33-5.55 So you show buyers @ 5.44/55 completely ignoring the Buyers/Sellers @5.33 ?

And if you think about it. There are buyers for higher IN THE CURRENT RANGE.

So people see the lower price. take it. and sell them to higher buyers.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are 5.33 Sellers.

It goes with any item. Why an exception with keys?

Please. Sellers>Buyers. And admins, if you think about it its not about that "5Ref-KeysGottaGoDown" Outbid stuff. 5.33 IS(or was) in the current range.

Sellers @5.33 - I personally don't consider them as "quicksell" Because they WERE IN THE RANGE About an hour ago. Now i dont see 1 Scrap difference would count as quicksell neither.

5.44 and 5.55 sells pretty fast too. By that logic we oughtta keep increasing?

Also don't forget that its the main currency of TF2. Of course the market is so fast when it comes to keys.

What i also want to say is think it like its a normal item. Normal item selling for the lower end. Of course the lower ends going to be taken fast/instantly?. But again. Why an exception when it comes to keys?

Taken from previous suggestion.

Sellas:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12089436 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12088856 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12088768 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12088357 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12087321 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12087077 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12086463 (5.33)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9573115 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12084955 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12084878 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12084447 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12083528 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12083014 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12082815 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12082675 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12082079 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12082039 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12082024 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081843 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081317 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12080112 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12079601 (5.33)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9572369 (5.33)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9572367 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12078236 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12078188 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12077318 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12076859 (5.33)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9572190 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12072191 (5.33)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9571828 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12072026 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12071538 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12068652 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12068115 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12068082 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12067999 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12067596 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12066002 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12065848 (5.33)

http://bazaar.tf/trade/274907 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12063164 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12063013 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12064407 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12060922 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12060852 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12060483 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12060466 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12059578 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12058859 (5.33)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12058292 (5.33)

------------------------------

More new proof:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12122884

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12122634

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12122172

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12123098

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12118834

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12120727

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9576058

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9575513

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12115970

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12116956

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12114384

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12108189

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12108965

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12109122

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12109214

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12111869

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12112657

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12113811

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12103940

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12104158

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12104898

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9574816

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12107757

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12091140

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12092782

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12093201

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12093613

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12094633

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12095583

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12095965

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12100683

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12100705

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12100934

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12100941

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12101424

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12102488

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12102532

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9574641

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12103771

Any 5.33 that isnt quicksell?

Why you consider 5.33 as quicksell?

Because they're sold out. And sell out quick.

Anyone selling for the whatever the current low end is sells out fast. In a day you could argue 5.44 is quicksell.

So its agreed they sell out quick, dont see why it should be on the list.

If we did that with all key suggestions than keys would have risen from 2.33 to 6 ref in one month or less.

So does 5.55 ref. Does that make 5.55 ref a quicksell then?

Reason is because they're currency, and currency is supposed to be readily available, no?

Its an item that is treated like currency that is scooped up and flipped right after purchase. With tons of ready willing buyers at a lower price means that its under market price.

Real currency can not be flipped.

Is there a such thing as "quicksell" for keys?

Yes. Of course.

I want metal quick and dont want to wait for it to sell at 5.66 i'll take a rec less and get metal in a second. I'm sure thats the definition of quicksell

I sold for 5.44 in under 10 seconds. Only had one other view besides mine. Any key in the current range will sell quickly because bankers are 99% of trades on the 20 pages of outpost.

your opinion isnt valid, there is a different between quickselling and a range

agree, the 1st time i heard about quick sell keys i laugh so hard, is just reason to bp.tf to raise the key prices, i understand quicksell item or unusuals but keys!!!! cmon is ridiculous, im gonna upvote good work

if there is, there shouldn't be

Please read?

I did read.

I think you didn't. You conclude yourself that low end prices counts as a "quicksell". That is why we have the "range" of prices for some reason. And do you even know how exchange rates work in real life? This is like a currency exchange in a virtual game. Think of the straight facts of what is the true meaning of "quicksell".

almost all keys within bp.tf's current range sell quickly

I also think there is no such thing as quickselling a key. The "it's a quicksale" is such an often used argument by those raising the price of keys, but i fail to see any proof behind this logic. The idea of a quickselling is to sell an item below market price in order to quickly get the desired item. With keys selling so quickly at almost any price below 5.66 i do not think there is such thing as quickselling a key. However, there are obvious outliers such as keys being sold at and below 4 ref.

The line between a quicksale and a regular sale isn't merely one of time or price; it's one of ease of acquisition. Some people are always willing to sell their item really low--that's why outpost is littered with super low buy trades. But if it takes so much luck and effort to get something that cheap, then it doesn't represent the rest of the market.

It may be slightly incorrect terminology, but if you need to camp outpost or trade servers to get a certain price for something then it can be safely called a "quicksell." If it sells so quick that most traders never see it, never have an opportunity to buy it, then what else can it be called?

" if you need to camp outpost or trade servers to get a certain price for something then it can be safely called a "quicksell""

I don't see it as straightforward as that. Camp out on trade.tf and you can buy many keys at 5 ref and a shit ton at 5.33 ref. They go lightning quick, but honestly, so do keys at 5.44 ref. I don't think there is a such thing as "quicksell" for keys. Price should be based on the most commonly bought and sold price. And there is no objective measure of that other than tf2finance with so many key sales going on.

I want to get this straight, because I have never understood quicksells myself.

I'm assuming what you mean, is that if there is very little proof for it, if any, it is a quicksell. If there is plenty of proof and you see a price quite frequently, then it is NOT a quicksell.

1 piece of Proof for 5.33 I happened to find when looking for quicksells

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12161520

Quicksell isnt about the amount of links or time. But if theres a ton of buyers at the price and will flip it when bought for more.

We are talking about key-metal exchanges, if someone sells a key for 5 ref, or a hell ton of sales of 5.33, it's recorded, and you can't change it. You cannot judge economics for that if you say 5 ref, or 5.33 is not a valid proof of sales, even if the item sold quickly as hell. Remember, many keys sold > fast keys sold.

shouldnt keys suggestion be make 1 week after another key suggestion ?

well the last one was 6 days so...

didnt know that, i really dont pay attention to keys suggestion, is just a full circlejerk beetween traders

I feel you

Actually if you read Sir Jon's words verbatim, then he states its closer to 5 days with 2 days time for the suggestion to be accepted in order to allow for market changes or sizable counterproof. Which would amount to 1 week worth of time. As you can see the last suggestion was accepted 2 days after it was posted amounting to a total time of 8 days for the suggestion. Now regardless of all that this suggestion is permissible because Sir Jon also stated that counter suggestions may be made inorder to refute the one that was recently passed. This means you can make a serious suggestion to low keys anytime you want after the previous one has passed however you must wait 5-7 days in order to make another one raising the price.

Something Sir Jon also touched on is that full scrap increases to the median key range may occur as soon as 3 days after the previous one has been accepted if ample proof is provided and it is deemed necessary in order to better reflect market value. However .5 scrap increases such as the last suggestion must adhere to the "1 week" rule.

I admire your courage to put up a key counter suggestion. Good luck!

If you are wondering, I am staying neutral.

Thank you for your kind opinion .

It's funny how you say "don't be rude over some pixels." When these "pixels" cost money. Not that your the only one who has said this just that It's better you say just to others to act civil instead it being just about "pixels"

Other than that, iz gud counterproof.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12126527 - Lets see if i run out of metal

....

And if you think about it. There are buyers for higher IN THE CURRENT RANGE.

So people see the lower price. take it. and sell them to higher buyers.

But that doesn't change the fact that there are 5.33 Sellers.

....

i know what your suggestion says. Let see how common that low end is

What i meant to say is 5.33 is like the minimum price people can get the keys for. Of course they are looking to sell for higher. Thats why you won't get many sales.

out of curiosity, why'd you close it?

Selling keys for 5,33 myself...have my vote!

I will take one.

And then resell it for 5.66? Nice try.

Hey, but hes selling them for 5.33, if he doesnt sell them to me, hes just lying like those protest trades on outpost, making a statement and not following through.

And this place is not the place to buy :3

And also .. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12139954 *slow clap*

didn't actulay selli it there, i needed metal fast to buy a hat and i sold it to the key bot. (ranger rick or whaterver) for 5.55. Mabey not that key looking at the history, but one of them. Yeah, i probably would have resold it the next time i needed change, but I dont make a habit of buying and selling keys. My problem is that this guy is blatantly lieing, there is no record of this guy selling for 5.33 in the past week, just a single sale for 5.44. This guy is a liar, and i just hate it when people lie. Also looking at my history, ive sold/bought 3 in the last month.

It sounds like you're in denial

cant respond to you, so about what?

what would be wrong with that?

i just bought 3 at 5.33 each

http://i.imgur.com/zu9zCpn.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/UgU18tI.png?1

So Many Proof :D = UpVote !!!

I don't think it should go down.... i managed to sell 7 keys for 5.66 ref each a couple days ago within the space of 5 mins of my trade being up on outpost. (i know thats just my sales) but surely it would of taken longer to sell them if they are worth less >.>

but yes. brave for putting a key suggestion up ^_^

Upvote. Rather not have the TF2 Economy crash in the next few months. Also, debating about the word "quicksell" in this situation is not entierly tricky. A literal definition will agree with those who agree with the standard price now. An applied definition will follow those who follow this new suggestion. Literally, a "quicksell" would mean something which sells fast because of whatever. Applied, the meaning is usually of getting currency quick for less than the standard by at least 20% or so for a pure currency. But, which one is correct usage? Whichever one decides your vote!

You sir are a genius. Someone needs to stop these people increasing key prices like crazy for no reason. If there was a reason then i would be fine, but this is just people using greedy sellers as proof.

Bottom proof to the top.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12150727

http://bazaar.tf/trade/278761

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12149746

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12149724

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12149475

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578245

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12148400

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578240

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151683

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151658

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151623

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578583

I'm a buyer at 5.33 and I just got an add, but I was out of metal.

Neither finance.tf or trade.tf support a drop.

Finance.tf shows 5.53 and trade,tf has it locked at 5.44 without any trades below or above it.

There are 5000 posts selling keys. Trade.tf lists 600 as fair deals, which means at 5.44.

Downvote

SO the trade.tf got it locked 5.44 Our current range says 5.50

If this suggestion passes then its going to be 5.44

What it shows right now is that there r no trades happening below/above 5.44. None. It isn't giving a range at all. If there r trades happening at 5.33 they r so infrequent that they are not captured by the software even tho the site captures 200 trades per item per day. For keys I believe it captures more than that.

I find it funny that the only time CHARLIE ever comments it has to do only with trade.tf's graphs, and never anything more.

I gave you a like for the comment. The reason I do this is because I understand what those two sites are doing and what their results mean. Furthermore, the factors surrounding the key trade price increase will not falter until it reaches 6.33 to 7.33.

upvote , the key rised like hell last time , my opinion , 5 ref will be prety resonable for all, but hey , is my stupid opinion

really valid proof. Upvote

Now that's the true meaning of "economy". Seriously, you guys ignoring 5.33 (buyers and sellers), and it was inside the range, and you count that as "quicksell".

The true meaning of "quicksell" is that an item BELOW the range is sold within seconds, maybe minutes.

Now I know the disadvantage of the key suggestions that they count low end buyers/sellers as "quicksell". For your information guys, we are talking about key conversion, not inflating an item for no reason at all.

@Final

By the way, you got decent and stable proof. You deserve a medal of upvote.

I must downvote, all of this are quicksells.

Which is only 1scrap less / Was in the old range about an hour ago ?

Of course they sell faster because they are buyers for higher. But that doesn't change the FACT THAT THERE 5.33 SELLERS.

Sellers at 5.33 ref gets instant sold, show some proof of 1, only 1 tarde of someone selling keys at 5.33 and the trade has been open for 2 hours or more.

I have a question, when the range included 5.33 ref, why they were considered as quicksell, if that price was in the range ?

2 hours is a ridiculous ask for keys, even at 5.55. 5.55 could be considered a quickbuy - someone needs a key, has the extra metal, doesn't care, makes a single key transaction.

the semantics of quickelling & quickbuying are very different for keys. it would be nice if there was a formal definition as right now it's being used willy nilly...

There's a small discussion of quicksells above.

23rd from the top post.

Ive bought 4 or 5 keys in the past couple days at 5.33.

5.33 - 5.66 is the best range imo, but 5.33 for sure needs to be in it

http://imgur.com/JUoqQIB bought 6 keys for 32 ref(5.33 each). bought 12 total

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12137111

Sadly, this will be rejected because of the amount of greedy people.

But I still think 5.33 should be in the range, I still see a few sellers for those prices on trade servers.

A range of 5.33-5.66 would be a better range, but that is just me. Up vote, btw

The fact that all of the 5.33 sells out almost as soon as the trade is posted means that they are quicksells. If you can find sellers for 5.33 that did not sell out almost instantly then that can be considered as proof

So 5.44 and 5.55 sells pretty fast too. By that logic we oughtta jump to 6Ref ?

Also don't forget that its the main currency of TF2. Of course the market is so fast when it comes to keys.

Trades at 5.44 and 5.55 don't sell out the instant they are posted. 5.33 does

true, they sell out 5-15 minutes later...

I dont see 6 ref sellers selling out so by that logic we dont jump to 6 ref

I didn't mean it that way. Higher sales are still sold out fast too. By that logic we should keep increasing keys' prices.

And key prices are going to continue to increase until the market stabilizes. It is something you will have to deal with. But we are not into future speculation. If there ever comes a time when 6 ref becomes fairly easy to sell at, then it will be included in the range. For now, 5.44-5.55 is the fair range for keys while 5.33 is a quicksell.

Eventually keys will crash, and when that happens I'll grab as many cheap keys as I can and wait for the bubble to rise once more.

It wont crash as long as theres buyers who are willing to scoop them up when they fall a bit

Why do you think it'll crash?

Because I'm not selling my keys for under 6 Ref.

Exactly, you need to show proof of keys not getting sold instantly.

and i ask again,when the range included 5.33 ref, why they were considered as quicksell, if that price was in the range ?

Because the range has changed. 5 ref used to be in the range but now it is a quicksell. 5.33 is selling too fast to be considered anything but a quicksell now.

that link hast 3 week and he have just bought 1 that cant be use

It's an outbid. Sorry, Admins don't take that as a proof.

Yes, I buy keys at 5 ref because I will take any quicksell and "omgsavetehkeyz" keys that I can get. I have an ever increasing amount of refined metal and no great need for keys at the moment. Just because I buy them low does not make the price that.

but i am talking now, i am talking about the 5.33 sellers when the price was 5.33-5.55, people said even 5.33 was a quicksell

Theres a small discussion about quicksells above.

23rd from the top post.

FINALLY someone lowers keys. Why the bumps are accepted with less than half the vote makes no sense. Props to you, friend of the key.

i understand you although the last suggestion had a slight difference of positive votes :/

Because let's be honest, it was free rep.

yeah maybe, but i think the admin push was only with long218, although now he is out, we could somehow manage to cancelll those suggestion by not upvoting for the rep

Enough with "quick-sell" keys. Keys are a currency, currency is readily available in any market. There is no such thing as quick-sell Keys. If there is, then anything in the range is quick-sell because it's sold/bought within an hour.

Having said that though, I doubt this suggestion will pass.

Even tho votes doesn't have a HUGE effect. im sure it still have a bit. So don't forget to leave yours.

I said several months ago I'm staying neutral on key suggestions. I haven't downvoted.

Hey a key suggestion finally got a majority of the vote. Cool.

Hmm?

The suggestion that this suggestion is countering received over 50% of the total votes approving. I just thought that was interesting because that hasn't occurred on a key increase for quite sometime. I simply found that observation interesting is all.

And key suggestions that get the majority of votes against are still accepted by admins...

Most of the people who voted agreed that the price should be updated, obviously the admins will accept it.

I was referring to all the other key suggestions where most voters agreed that the price should not be changed, but it was changed anyway.

all the data supported it. also cleverpun has chased off a lot of the #savethekeys crowd (along with cool peeps as well, sadly)

Yes, it's all my fault the savetehkeys members don't come here anymore. It had nothing to do with the fact that the entire group has been banned from the site for mass trolling. /sarcasm

subtlety is not your forte, is it?

of course the group itself was banned, but people definitely continued to make stupid comments (and vote against key suggestions without reviewing the data). i think everyone here is grateful to you that they are gone.

the allied bombing of germany also beat the nazi war machine into submission.

there was tremendous collateral damage. that was the part in the parentheses.

no sarcasm

Subtly making an analogy between people vehemently do not want keys to increase in value to the Nazis isn't exactly the most favorable one to choose. They're not killing and anyone and destroying their livelihood, they simply have a different and understandable point of view that sometimes is conveyed with some arrogance and misinformation, but does have valid concerns that a large part of the community sympathizes with about keys.

excuse me but i think you misunderstood the reference. i wasn't comparing the people who complain about key prices to nazis. i was comparing the american carpet bombing of germany to cleverpun's methodology of giving out warnings indiscriminately for a few weeks, resulting in less noise (thus winning the "war"), yes, but also chasing away a lot of interesting people (collateral damage to the german population).

i grant that i have been particularly critical of this approach to the point of absurdity but it is because i abhor abuse of authority in all situations. i know i go overboard, but i refuse to allow it go unnoted.

as to keys, i happen to be one of the people who has been sympathizing and i make every effrt to rationally review each key price raise suggestion usually with great skepticism because i think the feedback loop that is outpost->backpack.tf is absolutely real and using outpost only is lazy and because outpost is for lazy people...

the data (tf2 finance, trade.tf, sites that don't dwell on outpost alone like bp.tf does) eventually supported the 5.44-5.55 suggestion just like it supported many counterproofs in the past that i agreed with and key price raise suggestions that i voted against (but of course passed anyway 'cause it's all about using outpost as proof here)

edit: i absolutely agree with the OP that 5.33 sellers exist in large enough numbers to validate this suggestion, but i also have to note that http://tf2finance.com/keys/ has been hovering nearer to 5.55 than 5.44 since before the 5.44-5.55 suggestions passed.

The last suggestion also contained a few links of people buying for 5.66 refined. If you're planning re-including 5.33 refined, then the range would better fit at 5.33-5.66 refined if you wanted to help encompass the values at which keys are bought and sold at on the market.

I was about to suggest 5.33-5.66 few times however i couldnt find enough sales/comments in the trades. So i decided to wait.

The only thing i don't get is why 50+ links of key sellers for 5.33 dind't count as a proof cause "quicksellers" and 3 links, 2 immediately close and one quite old ( 2 weeks are a lot in terms of key price ) should count and not considered as a "quickbuy"

ty for lowing

I low you. <3

i know you can't prove it, but I've seen a ton sell for 5.33 in trade servers

Most of the proof given have under 30 views and an added comment in the same hour that the trade was listed. Yes, people are selling keys at 5.33 but the speed at which they sell (0-60 minutes) would seem to suggest that 5.33 is now a quicksell and should not be included in the price range. Easy down vote.

You could've said "quicksell" instead. Which i suggest you to read my note again.

Your note does not account for the delay in difference from how the market can change and the rate at which suggestions get made and accpeted on backpack. So sure, 5.33 was in the price range and people were selling at that price. However, the market had changed before backpack.tf did so the "Sales" you have used as counter proof were quick sales even under the old scale and thus why the price was incresed to indicate that 5.33 was a quick sale and not the market price.

Also in your notes you say that keys at 5.44 and 5.55 sell quickly then go on to later say that of course prices on the low end of the price range sell quickly. Since you say that keys are selling quickly in the current range wouldn't that mean that the 5.44-5.55 is actually the low end of the price range key buyers are willing to pay? Seems like you should be suggesting a price increase not a decrease.

How can be a currency "quicksell" anyway? It sells fast @ any price within the range. Even tho 5.44 low end is right (which i dont think it is) i don't agree with just completely ignoring the 5.33 sellers.

Currency does not have a value in and of itself. A key is a piece of data and a dollar bill is just a piece of paper with ink on it. What gives the item value is how much people are willing to give you in exchange for it. If you are offering currency for less than what people think it is worth then of course they are going to get it from you as fast as they can to make a profit. It's not that the 5.33 sellers were ignored, rather they were given quite a bit of attention as the speed of there sales indicate that the key is perceived to be worth more than they were selling it for.

Its also completely ignoring the 5.66 sellers, they cancel out and this is the correct range.

^This, proof here: http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG 5.66+ ref sales within the last day, over 50 keys from one seller.

http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG contains ~64 keys sold at 5.66+ref

http://imgur.com/a/RESU8 contains ~48 keys sold at 5.66+ref

~112 keys from the one seller from the past 2 days (some sales omitted).

ohmegwad. kays r two hie ples upvoet cuz i ned tham tu unboks>

In English please.

ok. I do think you have alot of nice proof. It isn't a quicksale either :D. i wish you good luck with your counter suggestion thing. and if people hate. just say,"This price may be stupid but it's also dumb but it's right."

What

Yeah I was surprised to see so many sellers willing to sell for under the suggested 'price' Normally I see people overvaluing them but since the last raise people have continued to use the old price. Upvote from me.

I've said this with long, I did exactly the same as counterproof, you will only get cleverpun saying, "this isn't within current range" from past experience. So I ask cleverpun again, doesn't this site go off of community rather than 1 guy clicking a button?

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51ab974dba25363278000007 - 94%

bad suggestion.

Green or Blue belt= automatic upvote.

That's why.

If the voters made the price. Keys would be 2.33 while there selling for 5.33+

"But don't be rude over some pixels please." On a semi-side note, there's two reasons this statement bugs me -

1. Keys are something people are actually spending cash on, therefor they're not just random pixels.

2. If this is true, then let's all stop worrying about the stock market. It's been converted to mostly pixels on a screen now, so let's not take em seriously...

Yes, I just compared the stock market to TF2, anyway, onto the actual suggestion...

Good luck =P Every time one of these "red arrow" suggestions has been tried, it gets almost maxed out on the upvotes, but sometimes people still call it too weak of proof, if you look at the only "red arrow" suggestion that has passed recently, he had a LOT more proof than you, so I'm just sayin keep gathering that proof until this thing gets accepted ^^ I'll help ya out later tonight with some.

Best of luck ^^

EDIT: Might wanna take "What i also want to say is think it like its a normal item. Normal item selling for the lower end. Of course the lower ends going to be taken fast/instantly?. But again. Why an exception when it comes to keys?" out of your suggestions... Keys are NOT a normal item, they are a CURRENCY and are traded at a MUCH higher volume, as well as more demand etc etc. So treating them like a reg item is the worst you can do...

- Still what i meant is "try not to be rude" overall

-Yes i know they are currency and that makes the market even faster. i know it. Again what i meant is any item sells fast at low ends. As the key market is so fast. it becomes instant.

Good Proof. Staying neutral for the while.

You are right, the key price is wrong on bp.tf

Its too low

there are buyers with constant amounts of metal at 5.55 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10895045

there are willing buyers at 5.77 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11218902

I never follow the price on bp.tf because it is always too low becuase people are too slow to update it. I curently value this item buying at 5.44 and selling at 5.66, why? Because 5.44 gets sellers at a resonable pace and 5.66 gets buyers at about the same. This sugestion is less acurate than the last one because its average of 5.44 is being lowered when aproxametly equal amounts of trades are happening at 5.77 as 5.33 (you are always claiming that a large amount of keys are traded daily, so I doubt that 80 links is even 5 percent). I see outliers at 5.33 and 5.77, majority at 5.44 and 5.66 and the average at 5.55, witch this is pulling the price away from.

Oh look, someone with some sense, rather than opinions.

Go and trawl outpost for hours. You'll see a couple 5.33 ref key trades come up. If you don't add the person in under 15 seconds, consider it gone. That is a quicksell because the seller has acquired metal in under a minute. How is that not quick? Why is it that 5.33ref is gone so quickly? Because the majority of key traders know that the market price is already well above that, they are getting a bargain and can flip the key for a profit.

Hell, at this stage in time, 5.44ref seems like a quicksell too.

Actually go onto outpost and see for yourselves.

couldn't agree more.

Hmm.

Best response ever!!

@ Final. #DirenGeziParkı -- Have you ever bought any key, yourself, for 5.33 ref in past 1 week? I have bought around 50+ keys @ 5.55 in the past 3-4 days, because I refuse to wait like an idiot for 5-6 hours before a 5.33 seller popped up and then hope that I was the first one to add to get those keys. Mind you getting them at 5.55 ref was not easy either. If you really need to understand how quickly the key market changes, then I suggest you get on with some key trading. Just visiting trade.tf and salvaging links from it and then using those to put a suggestion here is bullshit.

Let me ask you this --- If it is was not for trade.tf , you think you would have been able to salvage these links and post this suggestion?

Dude, you need to understand this, any item that sells pretty quick at its advertised price is called a quick sell. And I agree with Lithium and iMagoo, see above, on the current state of key price update on backpack.tf.

If it's a quicksale then why are so many people selling for 5.33 then?

So many people? Have you tried searching for the people selling keys? The links shown above are only 1-5 % of the total number of key sellers. They are very very very very few dude.

I've seen a huge spike of people selling for 5.33 the past few days.

Spikes because of people like you with three trades listing in 10 minutes, perhaps?? with do not add me written all over !! Plz note the keys have exactly the same original ids.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081768 --- (Jun 26th, 2013 5:40pm)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081843 --- ((Jun 26th, 2013 5:47pm)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081868 --- (Jun 26th, 2013 5:50pm)

I closed them in less than a minute bc it was pointless.

What was pointless?

I have to agree. Have my vote and good luck!

Guess what, just bought two keys for 5.33 ref because I happened to find the trade within 10 seconds of creation.

Guess what, I'm going to go and sell these keys easily @ 5.66 ref for a 1 rec profit on each of them.

Guess what, that makes the median price of those two keys 5.50 ref.

Guess what, that falls directly on the median of the current range.

K thanks bye. /downvote

Edit: Just thought I'd let you know that those keys are already sold. K thanks bye xxx

so you just bought keys at 5.33?

Great more proof for this suggestion!

Not sure if trolling or truly can't read.

quicksell does not mean sell quickly

LOL THIS GUY^

You're 2 from 2 for stupid comments, keep it up.

Meh i think hes looking at your comment another way.

So let the range be 5.33-5.66 instead.

Which is too large of a range, which is why the current range is 5.44-5.55 ref, as opposed to 5.33-5.66ref.

TL;DR, current range is correct.

If you poke the bull, you probably won't like its response.

Substantial proof of keys selling @ 5.66+ ref (from just ONE SELLER):

http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG

Sorry but all ur proof has expired as they are quick sell

and they rose yesterday

and 5.44 is also a quick sell

i can easily sell for 5.66

- Don't see them as a quicksell, but a chance to make profit.

- Counter-Suggestions can be made without waiting

- 2 Lines up.

- Well that might be true. However my main goal here is to lower the keys so didnt think about 5.66

"Well that might be true. However my main goal here is to lower the keys so didnt think about 5.66"

So your goal is to manipulate the price instead of capturing the true market price?

Say goodbye to your suggestion.

nice find and thx

if there are buyers of 5.66 the price should rise

Not what i meant. I tried to make 5.33 - 5.66 Couple of times however i just cant very good proof. About a week ago maybe. Maybe i didnt check bps i dont remember.

This suggestions purpose is to counter the other suggestion because i don't agree it. While i was looking for 5.33 sellers i forgot about 5.66. Well. if this gets closed. I should make another suggestion with 5.66.

But again. this is a counter suggestion. my purpose is to take the low end back.

Just because you don't agree with it, doesn't mean it's not correct. You've purposely ignored a large chunk of the market sales in order to manipulate the price.

Umm sorry? 5.44 - 5.55 Sales are happening alot in the trading websites i cant deny that. But there are 5.33s too. thats what im tryig to show.

You've ignored 5.66ref which are happening a lot, that was my point.

Sorry for my mistake, friend. I can make a new suggesstion with 5.66 after this.

Don't waste your time, 5.33-5.66ref will be closed because the range is simply too large. Also, opening the top end up to 5.66ref will just cause a large influx of trades @ 5.77ref, you'll increase the rate at which the price increases. Leave the range as is, it's as slow moving as it is going to be.

make a 5.44 - 5.66 that will work

i have alot of proof at 5.55 and 5.66 and i will post a suggestion but ill wait a bit for a break

I'm glad the keys are somwhat staying around this range. Personally I don't mind a scrap here and there, that said I do have a BUYING trade up on outpost for 5.44, being aware that it is possible to get at 5.33 I mainly do that to get someone to sell to me as quick as possible, I don't want to stack up my metal forever. (I could be considered a quickbuyer - or well... Outpost is spammed with people buying for under the range and when someone sees something in the middle of the range they sell all they got I guess, that's how I thought when I out my trade up atleast) 5.33 should definately be in the range, UPVOTE

I may be a little late to this quicksell debate, but I would hardly call a sale that occurs a mere scrap below the listed price a quicksell. A quicksale is usually considered to be about 30% or more off the listed price. Someone buying "quicksell unusuals" will not take a hat valued at ten Buds for nine Buds, they will be looking for something more in the range of six to seven buds for that sort of hat. Of course, the 30% is not universal, otherwise seven keys for a Bill's Hat would not be a quicksale, and obviously does not apply to all items. However, I just feel that a mere .11 in metal is not enough to call it a quicksale. A craft hat being sold for 1.22 will not be jumped upon by voracious buyers.

In my opinion, it is a quicksale if it can be described as "a deal too good to pass up", or something like that; a price that will be taken immediately or within the minute of posting, MAYBE two is the hallmark of a quicksale. Selling a craft hat for a refined is a quicksale; selling a low-tier Unusual for 8 keys would be a quicksale. Again, I don't think that a mere scrap is enough to justify calling something a quicksale.

Finally, quicksales are relatively rare. Why? Because they get bought near-instantly, of course. But also because few people, especially on Outpost, of all places, are willing to get less when they know they could get more by waiting a bit. We know how Outpost is; you'd be very hard-pressed to find something at the bottom end of the range there, unless the listed price is inaccurate. As the OP proves, there are plenty of people willing to sell for 5.33; much more than you'd expect from a price that is supposedly a quicksale, especially on Outpost.

Besides, if they really wanted to quicksell that key, five refined would be a cinch, and they would no doubt have countless adds within a minute.

My two cents :)

And a final, final note in regards to the argument that these trades are invalid because they have expired, and are therefore quicksell keys: Keys, being the primary currency item of this economy, are in high demand. I challenge you to find any reasonably-priced key (no outliers, I mean) that is still around an entire day later. Most of his proof was posted 1-2 days ago; 1-2 days is a long time for a key to be up, especially at a price that is below the listed one. Can a key for 5.44 last a day? I doubt it. 5.55? 5.66? I bet those will be gone as well. That said, I am truly curious about this, and it would definitely prove that 5.33 is a quicksell if I turn out to be wrong.

too bad no one will read this, because they really should. "quicksell" is the battle cry of people who think outpost defines the world of trading...

"We know how Outpost is; you'd be very hard-pressed to find something at the bottom end of the range there, unless the listed price is inaccurate."

^ this

The line between a quicksale and a regular sale isn't merely one of time or price; it's one of ease of acquisition. Some people are always willing to sell their item really low--that's why outpost is littered with super low buy trades. But if it takes so much luck and effort to get something that cheap, then it doesn't represent the rest of the market.

No such thing as quick-sell for a currency.

The more liquid the item, the lower the buy-sell spread.

The buds market is almost as liquid as key-ref, and right now the difference between quicksell (22) and common asking price (23) is about 4.3%. bmocs are less liquid, and there is a 6.66% spread there (11.2 vs 12). Vintage bill's less liquid still, with a spread of about 10% (it gets fuzzier as liquidity drops).

Unusuals are about the least liquid market there is. They don't make a good counterexample.

Keys are the most-traded item. Lots of people and lots of bots create competition and competition keeps margins low (many bots buy-sell at a 1 scrap difference). That's why 1 scrap is enough to call it a quicksell: it's gone in 10 seconds.

The high volume is also why quicksells appear common. There are many total trades, therefore relatively many at the tails of the bell curve. If every single 5.77 sale was listed here the way every 5.33 trade is, you wouldn't be able to read the comments without scrolling past thousands and thousands of imgur links.

Common asking price is 5.66 (verifiable fact -- simply look at the lowest price on open trades that buy you 10+ keys). A 4% spread suggests 5.44 as the quicksell price, which indeed it is (if not 5.55). Open 5.44 trades are jumped on by multiple buyers within the first minute.

Some say these are quicksales, some say these aren't.

*1: Quicksales = something that sells quickly. These keys obviously sell very quickly.

*2: There are many links that shows people are selling it for 5.33 ref.

As cleverpun already stated, it's not about these are whether quicksales or not, but about how easy they are obtained at a certain price. And as I see it, it's too hard to get it for 5.33 refined. You should really camp Tf2outpost or other trade sites to get it for 5.33, because these keys are getting sold within 10-20 seconds after listing... Therefore, I don't think 5.33 should be part of the price anymore.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12144531 sold out immediately, he sold some to a keybankbot for 5.55 refined.

It's just too easy to sell it for 5.44 or even 5.55 refined.

I also want key prices to go down like many of you guys, but sadly, this ain't happening yet. I'm gonna have to downvote.

1 Thing. you might call me crazy for saying that but :

Quicksales =/= something that sells quickly. Let me explain.

Like in other trades buyers are saying like "There are quicksell prices" and wait tons of times to actually get an item.

But the keys... They're sellers.. I believe thats the difference. They chose to sell for that. And keys are the only item that buyers choose to pay high prices. So of course people are going to buy them as quickly as possible. Key market is all about making that Few scrap profits.

But.. oh well. overall i agree with you. this inflation ain't stopping yet.

Yeah, I was talking about the word "quicksales".

Quicksell > Quick sale > Sells quickly

Not that it is that important.

Easy Upvote, plenty of proof and the recent price change that brought the keys up to around 5.55 ref messed up the prices of items worth exactly 1 key eg. Lime and Pink paint.

Is it possible that key rised 3ref and gonna stay at the same price?

That crossed my mind.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12118161

I got several keys within the 7 hours I had this trade up; it was bumped automatically every hour. Now look how many traders want to buy keys for metal.5.44 is NOT a quicksell at the moment, so an increasement of the price is out of question.

My own opinion to the whole key suggestions: Keys are constantly bought and sold unlike e.g. a strange backburner. I guess in this very second at least 100 keys change their owner for metal. So 5.33 ref trades are sold out pretty quickly because they are at the low end. At the same time 5.44-5.66 ref keys are sold.

Many, many buy keys just because they need it this moment or a bit later to buy something else; they need it as currency for a short period of time. So it is faster just to buy the keys instead of opening a trade and waiting for a customer to sell at a certain price. Does this make 5.66 ref a quickbuy?

I don't really know the answer, so I'll stay neutral. I would love to see the key price decrease. But it's up to the majority to decide. Most of the time I don't need keys for metal.

Edit: Haha, I like how someone just went through all the comments and gave a dislike. People have strange hobbies.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12150727

http://bazaar.tf/trade/278761 (has 2, open after 32 minutes)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12149746 (had 4)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12149724

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12149475 5 ref, does qualify as a quicksell

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578245

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12148400 (had several?)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578240

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151683 has many

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151658

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151623

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151331 (5, quicksell)

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578583

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12150958

all at 5.33

you might have some already, but well, trying to help

Thanks mate.

added yet more links

All but the bazaar post sold within an hour of posting and sold more than one key in that time in most cases. If anything this is counter proof to the suggestion.

so what. Sold quickly =/= quicksold. Currencies always sell fast at the low end.

http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG

Haven't counted, should be around 50, have another 30 to add, all at 5.66+ ref

Can't be used at counterproof sadly.

And why not?

http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG contains ~64 keys sold at 5.66+ref

http://imgur.com/a/RESU8 contains ~48 keys sold at 5.66+ref

~112 keys from the one seller from the past 2 days (some sales omitted).

I saw this suggestion and I upvoted instantly, can't believe how the last one was accepted...

Why? It had proof and the majority of the vote.

upvote......................

A lot of proof! I up vote! :)

keys used to be 2.33 or 2.66,really,who changed the prices!?

WELCOME TO THE FUTURE.

My two cents:

The biggest problem that I have with the rise in the price of keys on backpack.tf is that a lot of the suggestions to increase the price are made by people with 50+ keys in their inventory. I understand that these people are likely to be more knowledgeable about the key market than others, but it would be ridiculous to deny that their opinion will inevitably be biased by their stock of keys, and therefore their desire to see the price increase. Also, most of us can remember the days when most Outpost trades had some reference to "The Spreadsheet." Today, "The Spreadsheet" is rarely mentioned. Among the reasons people switched is the voting mechanic of backpack.tf. Unfortunately, a glance at the history of key suggestions reveals that some suggestions are accepted even with a minority of voters approving. Again, I understand that the purpose of the vote is to give the admins making the final decision an idea of what the community thinks, but if a change is made that the community in general does not support, why have a vote at all?

This has been my two cents.

to gain an entry to the raffles.

I didn't have 50 keys in my bp when I made my suggestion.......

Then you're not one of those people who did c:

Team Fortress 2 don't is a bad game,THE PLATERS MAKE IT BAD,FUCKING COD PLAYERS,F2PS,NOOBS,BF PLAYERS,SNIPERS,BF PLAYERS!

cara, vai embora

[dude, go away]

@mordecai[br]

i would recommend you to learn grammar again

Suggestions which are raising the price with a lot of proof:

"fuck you scamer"

"stop raising da prize"

"instant downvote, stop it"

"you don't have enough proof and you own too many keys to make a serious suggestion" <--- Best.

Suggestions which are lowering the price with a lot of proof:

"instant upvote, didn't even look at one of those links"

Sad but true.

All of my yes.

I will put in my 2 cents.

Buyers at 5.44:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12132903

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12138227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11987208

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12031930

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11971885

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152758

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12109912

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12157235

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11854416

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12123466

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11531943

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152945

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12031898

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12028972

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12056643

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151776

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11847687

Buyers at 5.55:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12157346

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12054395

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12155035

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12080968

This was off of the first few pages of buyers. I won't go further into the buyers; however, it's not hard for anybody to regularly find buyers at 5.44, as they are insanely common. 5.55 takes a bit longer, but is still very possible. How you choose to ignore this is insane and biased.

Sellers > Buyers?

Successful sellers higher than 5.33:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12155147

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12154698

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12153950

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12153439

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12153409

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12153176

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152907

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152688

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152558

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152528

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152370

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152287

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152153

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152156

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12152056

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151878

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151862

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151858

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12151668

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12157993

I will not even continue. There are too many.

So what does this prove. There are many buyers at 5.44, a few at 5.55, and many easy sells at 5.44+ Keys will always be sold for a little bit higher/lower than the suggested range, but the majority sell around 5.44 - 5.55. There is no need to include 5.33 when most sell at 5.44 - 5.55.

In suggested range. Theres 5.33 sellas man :(

There's also a number of 5.66 sellas man

http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG contains ~64 keys sold at 5.66+ref

http://imgur.com/a/RESU8 contains ~48 keys sold at 5.66+ref

~112 keys from the one seller from the past 2 days (some sales omitted).

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9579321 has 2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12157937 5, quicksell

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12157772 4.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12156540 5

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578984 5.33

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9578922 5

just another update with some proof

This has very good proof and it's all legit so I'm going to........... DRUM ROLL>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPVOTE

I bet you didn't even click on one of those links.

Calm.

I am calm wtf

You never saw me raging.

I looked at least 10 of them. So please MYOB

We all love you

The price should have never gone up due to people still selling at 5.33.

Given that TF2 has a very unique market where you have two main currencies, where one of them has a fixed monetary value (keys) and one has a fixed in-game value (metal). As key's in-game prices go up, every item in the game loses monetary value. From when I started TF2, everything has gone down in monetary by around 250%. I think that slowing down the acceleration (or even reversing it) is a great thing. I'm up voting.

Incorect! Unusuals have remained the same value in keys since forever because of the minumum of 12 rule. Also keys have gone up in monitary value (1.6 now when it was 1.3 before) Buds are also about stationary in the real money price, reaching their maximum during the recent raise in price of keys. Overall, during the last 6 months, items that are traded for money have either gone up in price or stayed stagnant, not this >halving trend you describe.

Really? Cause, around a week ago, my old unusual would have been worth 48 keys. Today? It would've been worth 46. Unusuals change, because buds change, because keys change. Also, he's talking about generic items, craft hats, strange weapons, REFINED ITSELF. Things which, didn't have much of an original monetary value, have in fact been halved, even more so in terms of craft hats. The reason is because they are relative to key prices, and if it takes more of an item per key, while keys reach the same monetary value as before, then something has to give to retain the balance of value. In this case items.

They change at a constantish rate, obvioulsy some will go up and some will drop, also 2 keys out of 48 is not a 250% drop. The low priced itmes were almost never sold for money anyway, but I supose they did drop, but that drop hardly effected the tf2 items to usd exchange. Well keys did go up from 1.3 to 1.6ish becuase valve crackekd down on carders, but your last sentence is true.

It's still not consistent. I just finished fixing the price of the Ye Old Flies Baker because some guy managed to get away with a .3~ bud decrease somehow. Obviously, monetarily it can't vary too heavily, as buds are buds are buds, and will always have their prices. It's just the unusual's value compared to buds. Anyways, yeah, normal items suffered at least a 200% decrease in value. Could've sold my Deus specs for cash for 1.60 if I wanted and found a buyer. Now I can't even get 80 cents, even though the prices on it have hardly changed since the golden days of 2.66 keys. Also, refined used to be sold for money as well, while nowhere near a full key, I could still squeeze 2 dollars out of five refined. Now I can only get ~1.50. Not a terrible drop, but a drop nonetheless.

The supply of craft hats is exactly proportional to the supply of metal. They come from the same place. If the price of one drops (and the price of metal has), the price of the other should too.

Prices of non-dropped items doing fine. Vintage Bill's, for example, is $75, an all-time high. Same for buds, bill's.

I'm brasilian and i know i had typed wrong,platers..........players*

Not the best place to write.

nobody's buying for 5.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10895045

Litraly the first link from the last suggestion.........

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12118625 Took me 30 seconds to search for it.

Also found lots of buyers at 5.44.

nobody's buying 5.55 from what I see, 5.44 is very easy to come by, but keys are hard to sell at their highest price at any time, regardless.

>> 2 links showing people who are buying for 5.55 each

>> "nah, nobody is buyying keyZ for dat price. nope."

Seems legit.

There are a lot of buyers for 5.44 ref if you serch for it. You can even find for higher prices. I think 5.44 is low enough.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12165478

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12090596

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12142651

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11468369

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12063282

[b] I salute you good sir, keys have gone up waaaaaay too much[b]

i see many 5.33 buyers, no one is gonna waste their metal and add another scrap or two to even get a key.

That's why there are people buying for 5.66 Ref

#luckfogic

http://imgur.com/5eGgG3E 4 keys bought today for 5.33, i was added for 3 more, but i didn't had enough metal to buy them

The day has came!, keys are going down :D

Not likely. I saw a suggestion to lower it a while ago and it got like 70% upvotes and had a ton of proof. Still got declined.

My mentality towards key suggestions is to always upvote the ones that raise the price and downvote the ones that decrease it. Yes, I know that's not what a lot of people want to hear, but hey: if I'm wrong, it makes the market happy and I only lose 1 contribution point.

That being said, I'm more than happy to upvote this particular suggestion, considering that it was made by a person with a previously confirmed suggestion. So sayeth the crystal ball (which is looking foggy right now), I see no reason not to bathe in the green.

That's the thing I don't understand. A Difference 1 contribution point does not make. I could just call correct on ONE more price change, given what ridiculous suggestions pop up, that's essentially guaranteed. If I just took the five seconds to call correct on another price, then I could vote how I wish to for keys.

Does anybody want to tell me why keys are rising? The price have gone up dramatically ever since October 2012 when the halloween update come up? Also why is even if in some cases the vote still been accepted when the vote is less than the majority, 50%?

Ask a guy named Long218

Well, keys rise because people got buy-happy looking for new unusuals of the Halloween update. That, or there's a "shortage of keys" in the virtual marketplace. As for the majority thing vote, well, not sure... I mean, this is a community pricelist, right?

Sorry but this just doesn't seem like proof to me. All of your links have extremely low views and were closed almost immediately, indicating a quicksell.

fk yes

ya have my vote

im goin to gather more info if this passes to probably vote down even furher

hope this gets passes

best of luck!

When a Mann co key hits 6 ref it'll be officially better deal to buy from the Mann Co store than to buy from the community. Unless you get a great great great deal.

As the price of keys in ref increases, the price of ref drops and the price of keys is stable. This makes it so that buying from the manco store is never a good deal. If you want to buy keys there are ways to get them consistantly at the price of ~1.60 usd.

According to the math and mathematical proof on reddit (I believe that's where I saw it) 1 key could cost 128 refined metal and still be worth less than the valve price. It annoys me so.

Definitely reasonable to leave 5.33 in the range. There are plenty of sellers. Provided you're not out to buy keys in bulk, it doesn't take long to get a few for 5.33

i would love this to happen but im making so much profit from the current range BUT i do wish keys would go back down to 2.66 ( impossible i know) because it was a simpler time :D GL on this im staying neutral

Yeah, there are loads of sellers at 5.33 still on the trade servers.

I have in the past made the argument that backpack.tf dictates price hikes but the fact that people are still selling for under what backpack.tf is stating even the lowest selling price is suggests that they aren't really getting 5.44-5.55 as quickly as they'd like, which does at least go some way to proving me incorrect on that issue.

5.33-5.55 works because I won't deny there are people buying at 5.44/5.55 (even 5.66, rarely) if they're desperate for a key right that second.

inb4 this comment gets dislikes because I didn't post a mountain of evidence. I hop trade servers and go by what I see.

If being added in less than 2 minuets for 5.44 is to long for them, and the buyers at 5.55 are somehow invisible to them, they sell at 5.33. I am still in awe that people will actualy sell for this price. If you have any keys, try selling at 5.44, you will get adds almost instantly (from me if you would like). The people selling at 5.33 are either uninformed, as they can instantly get more, or just plain ignorant. http://imgur.com/a/4rVtG here are "arond 50 sales" from Imagoo at 5.66, One person. If you look at the bot posts on the previouse sugestion, there is a constant cycle at 5.55 and 5.66. The price is higher and anyone who doubts that and sells at 5.33 is taking a loss.

We need a goddamned Buyer and Seller Price list. Cause obviously, this is only really setting sellers in the market, and not people who buy it and use it as currency. >..>

counter proof

I didn’t want to do this but it has come to a point where the current price is too low.

Hope this is enough proof.

I couldn’t find any sellers for less than 5.44

Honestly if I did i would take it.

Buying

5.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11656671

5.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12071752

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12076505

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11927413

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12080782

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12032873

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12063293

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11275221

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11927413

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12035491

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12054395

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11076954

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10895045

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11494475

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12142651

5.44-5.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12078174

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12063282

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11950627

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12066597

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11950017

5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12054928

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12063477

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11971885

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12074207

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12068080

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11895921

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12036040

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12056643

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12058571

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12060451

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12026463

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11918171

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11699011

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12064104

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11990569

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11941661

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11315426

Selling

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11175787

many offers 5.55 no sellers 5.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11315426

5.66-5.77 sold 57 brought 17 for 5.44 in 3 weeks

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11984200

people added him for 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12083824

sold in 20 seconds

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081843

5.33 sold in less than a minute.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12081999

5.44sold in less than a minute.

but thats what he is arguing against in the last suggestion, certainly 5.44-5.55 is common, but 5.33 is still possible, and you haven't provided any proof against that

yes i have they sell in seconds which is counted as quick sell and its price should rise not drop

noob -_- u are buying for 5,44

Showing that he dosent think 5.33 will get sellers fast enough.

It's only possible if you camp Outpost.

there are plenty for 5.33 on trade servers, which are still a major part of the tf2 economy

4.33 is also possible. Is it included in the range yet? Nope, the deals happen to rarely and the keys are gone way too fast to count the trade as a normal one. They are quicksells.

assuming you mean 5.33

Counter proofs r weak and the guy got so many proof to make it OK.

Downvote

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12024666 - Buying 5.44, selling 5.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12182321 - Selling 5.44 - sold out already

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11876237 - Buying 5.44

It's just too easy and common to sell/buy at 5.44 to include 5.33 in the price.

Nice ! Upvoted

I put a trade up selling keys for 5.66. I sold 3 within 5 minutes and closed the trade cause I didn't need a ton of metal.

Unless you have real proof, or links then it doesn't matter.

Wow, as much as people hate/love key suggestions, there's always a + vote limit of 1000, so atleast 1187 persons voted against this sug. althrough its against high prices. Strange

Greedy people want their metal. And with desperate key buyers out their buying for these high prices who's to prevent it?

+ vote limit capped on Bill's hat going back up to 8 keys, 3 days after the 7.8-8 keys suggestion got accepted. Admin said they had to accept it because of the sheer number of +'s.

A week or so later, it drops back down to 7.75-8 keys.

So if the same happens here, it gets accepted from the sheer number of positive votes. If people decide to stop selling at 5.33 then another suggestion will be made to raise it.

First page only:

Buying for 5.44

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9427611

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12138892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12132725

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12141156

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12091483

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12195757

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11938309

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12093819

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12182220

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12147331

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12160614

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12115537

Buying for 5.55

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11339110

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12090596

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11936677

I Just got 100 refined from a big crate trade and needed them turned into keys asap. That is exactly 18 keys @ 5.55 each. I spent 20 minutes refreshing tf2outpost and only got 7 keys for 5.55. I also missed about 7 because anything at 5.44-5.55 was bought out in seconds. I ended up buying the rest for 5.66 becuase I was not about to spend another 30 minutes for 1 ref.

anyone who sells for 5.33 either a) does not care about key prices, b) is ignorant that he can get more, or c) wants to sell his key for less to "stop inflation"

Because all you have to do is spend 10 seconds to find someone who will pay 5.44 or even 5.55