Suggestion: Bill's Hat at 7–7.8 keys

Wooooow, this proof is not the whole market, if you take a look at outpost, the majority are above 7 keys, he just added more for 7 keys to support the bottom price, because the top price has already been proven

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12844235 bill must be 7?

Congrats you traded with a mentally disabled person.

i am doing this everytime nvm.i mean bill is a currency its always must be 8 keys

so currency does not change in price? so bills should be the only currency in tf2?

keys changed, buds changed, basicly all items changed, and now the bills also.

u are right but if we do this bills will be 3 keys just like ea

if they buy/sell for 3 keys then it will be 3 keys, what is wrong with that ?

Here's another seller at 7 keys, new trade

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12979843

Trade.tf has them at 7-7.4 keys, as well.

7.2-7.4* Also, trade.tf does not account for how quickly an item sells, so of course it is going to be slightly under the value of what it should be since people quicksell when an item drops/to get pure quickly.

Trade.tf has generally lead the actual price with an item like this whether it is going down or up. The system is designed to throw out trades at the extremes but a quicksell for some items, like the bills hat, will actually not be that far off its accepted trade price. This suggested range is likely very accurate as some still consider bills to be closer to 8 while many believe it is more likely to drop fast thus leaving us with a less tight range.

It's still looks like a quick sell at 7 keys. I think 7 keys and 2 ref is better. I had sold them for 7 keys and 2 ref. It takes quite a while.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12874391 7 - Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12895632 7 - Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12889186 7 - Sold, quicksell?

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9638404 7 ,, ts - Sold, quicksell?

http://bazaar.tf/trade/316769 7 ,, ts -Sold (add), quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12834100 7 - Never bumped

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12878084 7 - Not over 1 day old, fresh

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12878792 7 - Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12902461 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12878305 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12878389 7 ,, gold -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12833359 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12824589 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12841387 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12850882 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12849873 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12849293 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12862762 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12901863 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12906082 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12862139 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12874184 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12876206 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12902764 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12899284 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12898718 7 -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12917652 7 ,, pink -Sold, quicksell?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12862461 7 ,, white -Sold, quicksell?

EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM.

Show me trades OVER 1 day old at 7 keys that are unsold, then I'll agree for it being it in the range. Downvote from me.

What do you mean by downvote? You mean downvoting my comment? There's no such thing as that ;)

The irony here burns

turn it off then.

if there is mass sellers for 7, even if they sell quickly, they still do count as proof, this is a currency and excpected to go out quickly

it's now debatable as to whether or not it is currency

Earbuds go up and down, keys go up and down, metal might go up in few decades :P ; fluctuating prices does not mean that a "accepted/proclaimed" currency can be questioned.

No that's not the only thing. It's that nearly nobody now will accept bill's as currency anymore. Unusual sellers, who often used to have "27 keys can replace 1 bud, 1 bill's can replace 8 keys" almost never put that sentence anymore, also not the currently more accurate 22 keys can replace a bud and 1 bill's can replace 7 keys. They stopped taking them as currencies, and started taking them as items.

Well bill's currently is going through the phase that buds went through. When they last started dropping from 27-28 keys to 21-22 keys, people even declined to accept them then. At least give bill's a chance to stabilize, before renouncing it a regular item.

Old players and experienced players, like yourself, I am sure, would definitely acknowledge this fact.

I'm not an old player. I'm 16 and started trading around Halloween. And I've always detested this hat. But let's stay on topic and say 7 isn't a quicksell and happens often enough. To completely prevent getting warned, here's some links

http://puu.sh/3JNkT.png

http://puu.sh/3JNlu.png

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12979843

bills aren't fluctuating, they are falling. a currency is something that is commonly accepted as a replacement for a certain value. many people, like myself, do not accept bills anymore.

Bill's would always be accepted but just at a right price, like with any other currency e.g buds. When they were falling some people did not want them; and some accepted them at a lower price. That does not mean it is not a currency anymore. Give it a break and think positively.

I'm thinking literally. You say "when bills were falling" as if it was in the past. They are falling faster now than ever before. You may choose to believe that they will spring back up to what they once we're, but I don't see any reason to expect it. Anyway, time will tell.

Remember that Bill's never changed price while keys rose and buds dropped rather drastically relative to keys. There weren't claims that buds were no longer a currency when buds fell from 25/26 keys to 21/22 keys in the span of two weeks, there's no reason to do so for Bill's now. This is just a readjustment that's been a long time coming.

As far as accepting as a replacement for a certain value, keys and buds rarely hold a single value and require a bit of negotiation if the two parties are treating each differently; typically a scrap or two difference on keys, a key difference on buds. It's not a matter of currency being widely accepted as a replacement of an absolute single value, the only item that could claim this recently is unpainted Bill's itself, insomuch as people just aren't used to Bill's not being 8 keys after having held steady there so long. Even as far as Bill's being accepted at a single acceptable value, unpainted Bill's transactions have been far in the minority while painted Bill's value have always had a range that would typically require discussion in how to treat it. So even for Bill's it isn't the first time it's been in a position where two parties may not reach an agreement on how to treat it.

As it stands, there's no reason to believe this is anything more than a readjustment. If we were to trace the Bill's farther back, it's definitely not the first time it's fallen relative to keys. It is much too early to decry its current falling price as anything more than a readjustment at this time. Quite frankly, the only real notable abnormality here is that it took so long to do so.

You raise fair points. Honestly, I think the main issue with the debate is the semantics of assigning the word "currency" to commodities. The only reason I considered bills to truly be a currency was because it was so perfectly elastic for such a long time.

That's true enough, the 'currency' term is definitely a fickle one. In my eyes, the only items I'd truly consider currency are refined, keys, and buds- the only items collected and held in large quantities specifically for the purpose of trading into other items. Bill's and Max Heads don't seem to fit quite as well. They're certainly used comparatively highly in unusual trades, very valuable compared to standard items, and prone to stability, but you don't typically see people leaving them sitting around in large numbers specifically for future trading. But then the highest tier stranges fall into all the same categories and aren't typically regarded as currency.

Anyway, I suppose my main argument then is that there isn't some massive overhaul happening to Bill's as 'now debatable as currency' seems to imply. If one is to accept Max Head and 8-key-Bill's as curencies, it seems to me there's no reason yet to see current Bill's as no longer a currency. Its value in keys is falling, yes, but there isn't and never has been a reason why it should be absolutely immune to change.

So, all those words later, I fully agree that it comes down to semantics more than anything. Ask a hundred traders what defines an item as currency and you're guaranteed to get a wide variety of answers.

good proof

Well ain't this hat just dropping fast! Good amount of proof, you sir have my up vote :)

Here's the one who chnged it by 2 scrap before,his next move to drop by a key..

can he make it?? could he survive ??

He has a proof of 7 keys and up,so the price range is good like this he didnt remove the 7.8 yet as there are some little trades like that

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12922789 selling for 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12922777 Painted oink for 7

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12935534 7, ts

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/id/76561198029686995 7.2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12935037 7, purple

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12931361 7, ts

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12928716 7, green

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12927826 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12926698 7, plain

http://puu.sh/3Invz.png 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12922789 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12922777 7, pink

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12922033 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12920073 7, plain

I think you had none of these, but most sold quick, really quick so I'm not sure about 7

They are selling at the same pace as they used to sell at 8 keys few months ago. As soon as one posted a trade willing to sell their unpainted bill's hat for 8 keys; within the next few minutes they already had a bunch of buyers. 8 keys then was the appropriate price, as 7 keys is now.

yeah well, apart from peasant's suggestion (the first one to go <8) I haven't voted on bill's, and will remain neutral now aswell. They're just ugly and forced to be a currency whilst nobody actually wants them to be. It's the weirdest item of the mannconomy

ppl are selling for 7 keys as they think they will continue, and will with these price suggestions

The other way around is equally true. People continue to sell @ 7 keys, hence these suggestions.

You should do 7.3- 7.8 keys since 7 is a quicksell no matter what, but then people will sell it for less, just a suggestion before someone does the same.

Please read my comment above to clear your quick-sell doubts. People whinge about it being a currency and a currency is supposed to be sold within 2-3 hrs of posting.

The fact he showed people selling for 6 keys, prooves 7 is not as quicksale as you think.

I really doubt any 6 key sales. I had been buying them @ 7 keys, around 2-5 hats daily, but since I reduced my buying price by a ref I have not bought any. Although I changed it yesterday only. I agree that 7 keys is not a quick-sell, however.

it's rare..so your not going to get any just yet unless if someone doesn't want to wait an hour to sell theirs for 7 keys

It's one of the most common hats in the game

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12971898 8 key buyers are rare

as rare as 6 keys sellers

Nice proof, up voted.

I got added in the first half-an-hour of buying keys @7. it is beyond quicksell. upvoted.

If you include 7 keys in the range, you could also include 8 to make it nice and round and I'm sure enough deals still happen at 8. Just my thoughts when I saw your range.

you can find ALOT of high tier painted bill's for 8 ,, i dont see why unpainted can go for 8 nowadays

But they obviosly do sometimes.^^ But yeah seems thats way rarer than for 7 keys.

Anyways I can't really do some research properly atm, hence I do almost nothing on bp.tf. :S

I knew this will happen when that guy dropped 0.25 keys to the bill's hat, frigging market turnmoil

I bought one painted white for 7 keys + 1 ref in less than 1 hour (i had 2 invitations, the other was for a black one at same price)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12968667 Here's a person selling 4 (one painted gold) for 7 keys and 2 ref each if that helps you.

for the date when that got posted I can assume that is a panick sale caused by the existance of this suggestion

Have a look here > http://scrap.tf/items/13 Painted lime ones for 7 keys 3 ref

Very soon you will be able to buy one for 1.33 -.-

this hat is not that bad, but the truth is that it's pretty overpriced as a hat. The vast majority of the demand for this was as a currency. a coin that represented 8 keys, when they first dropped bill's to 7.75-8 keys people who used bill's as a currency start quitting from it, since it no more was a reliable currency

He Is Right... Look I Have A Proof... Bills Painted White For A Cheap Price... & Lately I Saw Someone Selling Pink Bills Hat For 7 Keys Here At Backpack.tf But Somehow I Cant Find It Anymore Prabobly He Have Sold It Already, So I Demand Either We Stable It To 7-7.5 Keys Or Make It Cheaper. http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198026555707

don't your fingers hurt from hitting the shift key so much?

Yeah I totally agree. Its slowly going to lose its ranks from being a premium hat.

another 7 keys bill's hat trade was just created - http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12986923

another - http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12988766

they seem to sell quickly though

R.I.P 8 Key Bill's.

The thing is, if it does come down to 7 Keys, everybody on tf2outpost who is currently buying these hats for 7 keys (there's a ton of them) are going to change their price to 5 keys and 6 keys.

Now the person trying to sell their bill's hat is going to open a countless number of trades offering keys for their hat, and will eventually give up searching and sell it for 5-6keys (Best price you can find on outpost)

Now these buyers are competitive, and if bought at 5 keys will flog it off for 6 keys (1 key) profit.

Then another price vote will will be initiated saying lets make it 6 - 7 keys. AND THE TREND CONTINUES!!!!!

So either DOWNVOTE this suggestion or just happily accept that the progressive and rapid decline of the value of this hat.

quickbuyers donot count, all the links i got are people selling, quickbuyers are just a bunch of people who buy items once in like 1 week, only fed up people go there are they by no means represent the market

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12987292 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12986923 7, plain

http://puu.sh/3JGJL.png 7, pink

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12986443 6, plain, outlier

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12986126 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12983845 7, plain, had 4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12982759 7, plain

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9648473 7, plain

http://puu.sh/3JGP5.png 7, plain

http://puu.sh/3JGQa.png 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12979843 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12979410 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12978008 7, had 2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12977832 7, ts

http://puu.sh/3JGTn.png 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12976435 7, ts

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9647854 7, WHITE

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12974842 7, white

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12968743 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12963897 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12956442 7, ts

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12954643 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12953932 7, plain

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9646187 7, BLACK

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12953477 7, plain

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12952767 7, purple

yeah, I've finally convinced myself 7 is possible, upvote

so internet snapped, i lost my links, and here comes my savour

Always there to help Syrians

7 keys is a quicksell price as long as scrap.tf buy them for 7+2.66

They lowered their price to 7 keys flat.

Just to be clear, most of those 7 key sales are quicksells. The question is if there were enough of them to include that in the range and I think that is debateable.

Bill's are now going down? Oh it is sad day for community.

Sure, they do sell at 7 keys.

But the REAL question is, are they easily available, without camping outpost or trade.tf for several hours?

Btw, from all of the links given, only one is still up http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12979410

Checking for open 7 key sales...

--No open trades on trade.tf--

...

On Outpost itself:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12991996 - 7 key + 1 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12884281 - 7.4 keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12907509 - 7 keys 2.66 ref

Those were the best I could manually find. No open 7 key traders.

My conclusion: I don't see the mass amount of 7 key sales, because they're all getting snatched away within minutes after listing.

I'm staying neutral, because of the listing of 7 keys trades is long, although I couldn't find any active 7 key seller.

your second links didnt sell in 3 days and gold, isn't that too much for a bill's to sell ?

same with your third link, sold 1 normal + one lime in 2 days, and a pink left unsold for 2 days, isn't it too much for a bill's to sell ?

Maybe. I don't look at the paint, but I also don't really know how long it takes to sell a bill's on average...

"only one still up" has no bills in backpack.

Yeah, it has been sold.

is there a rule to discard ads created AFTER the suggestion was first made? A lot of people start selling depending in current suggestions that are being voted

Nah!It's need to be bigger in price not smaller

nice counter-proof, i will close this suggestion for you

good thing i cashed this in before it hit 7 keys flat lol