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Lets try my luck
2 Weeks ago ( http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12956479 ) , Quick bought everyday a BMOC for 10 keys, after few days i just got no new offers/adds 3-4 days long. So i make a new trade buying for 11 ( http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13377937 ), had this price up for 3 days 0 adds, 0 offers . So i increased the price to 12 keys ( which is the actual price and it should be easy to buy many BMOCs at this price! You think.). Bought 2 in 2 days, this isnt my explanation of many ( just to say the backgrounds , the first seller had no idea of the price and sold for the best he found , the second same).
I think the interest for the BMOC is rising http://www.tf2outpost.com/search/138850428 , just go to some trades many are made 3 days - some hours ago.
Got offers 12-13 keys:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10041207 , 2 offer 12 keys , 1 offer 12 + 2 ref .
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12703706 , 11 keys + 4.44 ref + 3 craft hats ( 12 keys + 2.55)
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13160654 - 12 keys offer and a black bills (8 keys) + strange festive fish (4 keys) + 1 key so 13 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11493842 ( increased the price about 1 week ago to 13 keys ) - got offered - White Bill's + 4 keys + Hornblower (worth 1.5 keys) + 2 craft hats / 12 Keys( multiple times, 13 for black) / Big kill + 2 keys + a craft hat .
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13017552 - 4x 12 key offers(denied) , 1 possible buyer for 13 in few days?
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13388875 - got offered 12 keys (denied)
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13265315 - multiple 12 key offers , 13 keys offer.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/4099899 - some 12 key offers , 1x 13 keys offer and a 4 keys, 5 ref, Austrilium Gold Bills, and a Clean shred alert which is more as 13 keys mixed offer .
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13259976 - 12 key offers and a 12 key + el jefe + 0.33 offer (13 keys)
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13501412 - sold for 13, i asked him.
http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/id/520048c74bd7b8982e000008 most are 13 keys and more.
Thats why i think 12-13 range is better for this price.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/search/138861102. ( Most Sellers are 13-14 keys, some highballers which want sell this already now for a bud or more)
even if i sold my bmoc for 13 keys i support this but its just not enough sales at 13 for such a popular item
Thanks , and thats why i made the 12-13 keys range, because this are the prices its selling at and getting offers in this range :)
Counter proofing all your links.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10041207 <-- 3 month old trade got offers of 12 pure never replies.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12703706 <--- wants more that 12 keys, UNSOLD for 3 weeks.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13160654 <--- highballer wants 14 keys coarse he is going to reject 12 keys.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11493842 <--- 2 month old trade. barely any sold at 13 keys, you need to account of item overpay.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13017552 <--- unsold 13 keys 2 weeks dude
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13388875 <-- highballer wants 14 keys.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13265315 <-- 13 keys unsold 1 week
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/4099899 <--- 11 MONTH OLD TRADE?!
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13259976 <---- 13 keys unsold 1 week...
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13501412 <--- hasnt sold he still has it in his bp
Most of your links are ancient and they actually dont prove your suggested price at all. Not enough sales at 13 keys to be included your unsolds show this.
Please dont use ancient links as proof use more recent ones
guy i posted proof of OFFERS! And the last is sold , he Quickbought an other one, and if u look many BMOC trades are old. My proof was the offers and which u can sell it for! And i said im on the 13 keys trades !
Most of your "offers" are old offers, dont think if waiting for a few months to get a single offer of 13 keys (mostly in items) should be included :L
There is a difference between quick buying a few or being able to quick buy alot. He bought alot below current range.
Old Offers ? my offers which hare my proof are max 1-2 weeks old, and most are few days old! And the 13 keys range is there to say that selling for 13 keys is possible ! I said im on it
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13265315 <-- unsold, 13 keys, 1 week
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13017552 <--- unsold, 13 keys, 2 weeks
again you dont have nearly enough sales at 13 keys, your rejected 12 keys are from highballers...For 13 keys to be included it needs to occur on a regular basis from 16 pages of trade you give us around 13 (mostly old) links which barely support your range at all.
Find us a bunch of valid solds at 13 keys (unpainted) and then come back :l
> http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11493842 <--- 2 month old trade. barely any sold at 13 keys, you need to account of item overpay.
Hint: you can't tell how many are sold. I had 139 bmoc at peak, now have 106. I've sold more than 1 per day since I put the price to 13 keys, which was on Aug 2nd (week+ ago)
You need alot more proof and most of your links at 13 are painted :L
More Proof :
Sold/Bought @ 12:
http://gyazo.com/f4e789d80b42b24dab764c942daf1ca8 (me)
http://gyazo.com/cdc9646ba675b3127a7251109904eab7 (me)
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13517538 - Sold at 12 Keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13505006
how easy it is to sell a BMOC for 12 keys , got 3 adds in 12 hours.
Sold @ 12.5 :
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13339100
Bought/Sold @ 13:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13255323 - Pots Man offered 13 keys ,
http://backpack.tf/id/76561198054662955?time=1375686000 if you look his bp history 05.08 - 06.08 he bought one at 13 keys( an unpainted ).
Sold @ 12.5 :
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13339100 <--- he buyes them all here http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13092519 for 11 key + 2 ref. Has bought quite a few.
Bought/Sold @ 13:
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13255323 - Pots Man offered 13 keys , <----- this is painted black. Enough said
He bought one UNPAINTED for 13 .... enough said.
And u know what quickbuing is ?? looks like not u cant argue with this , quickbuying works for every item!
Guy offered to buy the painted one for 13 keys not a unpainted one
Thing is he bought so many and is reselling. Because he was so successful in quick buying it's counter proof...
all your other proofs are anicent
God dammit he BOUGHT a unpainted for 13 keys THATS WHAT COUNTS.
And quickbuing isnt counterproof u could argue with this and lower price of every unusual and every ******* item which exist!
But it dont works...awkward :S
sigh it was a PAINTED B.M.O.C for 13 keys
Bloody hell even the guy himself said he bought it for 12 keys
SCROLL DOWN TO Pots Manactually here a screenie : http://imgur.com/55rlkY1
*offer of 13 keys for painted b.m.o.c
http://backpack.tf/u/76561198082754779 this is the guy which written ( i never mentioned something of him WTF? , this who bought http://backpack.tf/id/76561198054662955?time=1375686000 .
Are you ******* kidding me? Stop making propaganda here.
http://gyazo.com/30261b7650c106c3edf6480071ef1d73 , yes he hasnt sold and bought an other! ( thx UnPro)
good proof up vote for me :)
ah, another smart bmoc hoarder :D
I also have 100+ keys, so im a key hoarder too?
nope, keys are a currency, bmocs are an item
Say it to Long , the guy which increased the key price
http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198042823837 , is banned now . but he had 1000+ keys , so key hoarding exist too^^
yeah but there's a difference between having a lot of pure and having a lot of the same item. :P
The thing is with his suggestions is that there was always a wall of proof which was quite hard to deny. You dont nearly have enough links and you've also spaced it out so it looks like you got alot :l
b.m.o.c's could possibly be a dumb item to hoard. yeah smissmass is coming in a few months and people will have a hype for smissmssmas items. But people want new things. old halloween things didnt go up last year. and all the 2011 festives dropped in price when the new ones came. AND b.m.o.c's went down half a bud. There are really no clear signs to hoard this item. but i wish you extreme luck. you're gonna need it.
this time last year bmocs doubled in price, if they don't, I can just sell them for what they're worth now, which makes me 4 keys profit already. don't worry about me, I know what i'm doing (kinda)
I think there is a difference between hoarding festives/halloween items and bmoc , because this is the only one perfect themed winter item, it doesnt exist that much , and if more people start hoarding this , the market will decrease and the price raise.
And i dont thik there will be an other that good themed winter item.
You got 13 of those in your backpack :)
Look at my proof not at my backpack. :)
I haven't looked in your backpack, the suggestion shows how much you own :)
It's always difficult to defend a higher price suggestion if you're dealing with the same item. I looked at the proof but I'm staying neutral on this. Always a lot of guys trying to sell theirs for a higher price (highballing). You got some sold @>12-13 keys but I don't know it's enough proof to justify this.
http://backpack.tf/vote/id/520412d24bd7b8215900000b
thuglife
But anyway, SoooHorny, you should try and find more sales for 13 keys instead of rounding the majority of your proof around offers. More sales would help you out more. Maybe if you've sold any for 13 keys, you could provide us with screenshot proof of your trade history.
And http://puu.sh/3YrJb.png
Thats why i made the range 12-13 keys, not 13 keys and i found enough for this range.
You made no range for your item.
Give me counter proof , show me links of sold BMOCs (exept Quicksells) under 12 keys or over 13 keys , gonna be hard to find this .
I think its easier to make a suggestion if u have own experience with the item, and i have a lot of this experience , i recognized that the interest on this item is rising hard, buying this cheap getting harder and thats finally what u need to increase a price.
I put a ":)" to show I'm not against this suggestion, you have knowledge about the item but it's still a common fact that a lot of people look at the "owns". Like I said I'm neutral, I'm not trying to disrupt your suggestion. I don't need to give you counterproof, I'm just saying you could use more proof like offline said. I don't even think offers are valid proof, I once tried it but an admin told me it wasn't legit.
People add :) to the end of their sentences to show they are surpirior than others, AKA dicks, so I see why horny got a bit frustrated, he got enough proof, and this is not a currency, so yeah.
And people who can't resist to comment on a ended conversation think they are important. People who call other people dicks just like that are ..... bigger dicks?
And now this conversation has ended. Yes I can end it just like that since I'm superiour to you acccording to ...... you.
Did you read? I said he went and said he wanted you to show proof since you put a :), I never called you a dick, I said people who are dicks do that, I never said you were surpirior to me or to anyone, so please calm down, this is backpack.tf, now your middle school, now can you please chill down?
Please, find more proof of actual sells at 13 Keys. Most of the proof at 13 Keys are offers in items, which is debatable in terms of worth, while the offers in 13 Keys pure have not fallen through yet. 12 Keys being denied, also, is meaningless, unless you are trying to prove that 12 Keys is not possible, but it is in your range...
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13517538 - Sold at 12 Keys.
I'm not saying that your range is wrong, nor am I saying that it is correct, but your proof is questionable, and I would like to see more proof supporting the high range of 13 Keys.
Im on it added some guys which suppose to have sold some for 13 keys. Had to find somebody who really sold some in this ocean of resellers and quickbuyers :/
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13505006
how easy it is to sell a BMOC for 12 keys , got 3 adds in 12 hours.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13255323
Pots Man offered 13 keys , http://backpack.tf/id/76561198054662955?time=1375686000 if you look his bp history 05.08 - 06.08 he bought one at 13 keys( bought an unpainted ).
Stop copy and pasting the same proof over and over again.
The guy himself said he bought it for 12 keys
SCROLL DOWN TO Pots Manactually here a screenie : http://imgur.com/55rlkY1
That link is also to a painted black bmoc.
Dont think you have nearly enough successful sellers at 13 keys for it to be included.
Staying neutral for now
But it seems possible and thats what the high end is
There are pages of trades on outpost, he has provided 15 mostly old links. Half of which he says "reject 12 keys" but they are highballers selling for like 14-15.
He has repeatedly say that pots man bought one for 13 keys, the guy himself said he bought it for 12 (scroll down)
One of his links is also a relist. I stand by what i say. Not enough proof for me.
I dont know. Last bmoc i had sold in mins at 12 keys. And all the trades for bmocs are a pain to go through since they all want a bud +
13 keys seems possible only way to know is to try yourself. Which is why sellers of bmoc should be voicing their sales here
It takes a few links to bump it down, it should take the same to bump it up
The only person voicing their sales is Naknak who claims to have sold alot but has no screenies and also has a page of b.m.o.cs.
I agree with it but the thing is his half his "proofs" are invalid, why should links from months ago and highballers rejecting 12 keys count? His only one really solid sold has been Pots Man which even he voiced that he bought for 12 keys. With so many trades im aure he can find some decent links...
With no solid proof i see no reason why i should upvote :l
upvoted the 12-13 range seems fine, wouldve been a downvote had you suggested 13 keys only.
Did you actually look through his proof? :L
could u actually stop stalking me? my proof is good enough for the 12-13 range, and ur arguing on old trades.. so what? the offers arent old!
Again please read.
There are 16 pages of trades on outpost. You've shown us around 13 links which arn't very good either. Not sure what you would consider good proof but... http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/3203-guide-making-good-suggestions/
Here is a guide to making suggestions. i hope i helped
Ok one thing u dont even know , cuz ur such a pro, not everyone has the same big pages on outpost , i for example have only 7 pages of bmocs , each page has 50 trades by me , so u should say how many trades and not pages....
yea and dude 12-13 range means selling for 12 keys + some refs so chill i can list 4-5 trades myself that have gone for 12 keys + 2 refs or more
would be nice if u could list this trades , every proof is welcome
don't bother, 95% of the votes don't look at proof, they just look at the item & press V or X :)
Yeah that is true, this is the very reason why mods have the final say. Starting to get annoyed by how many hoarders of the bmoc who keep trying to increase the price lolol
Think the last guy was like "it's near christmas and it goes up like last year" and had a few links. Christmas is in 5 months, and the bmoc is also known to drop to bills price right after :L
if anything since people know it will drop it probs drop even more this year lol highly doubt it will ever go to a bud again xD
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11493842 - trading 13 for normal bmoc and 14 for painted , looks like successful
http://i.imgur.com/3xlrRU8.png
4 sells for 13 keys ( thx to naknak)
more proof coming
I will add that the last time I charged 12, which was August 1st, I sold 8 in one day. At 12 keys they go very fast!
They have been selling slow and steady at 13, at least one per day.
Wat. You can press v or x to vote. Why did I not know this. :(
I got offer 12 keys and 3 ref for my gold b.m.o.c. on a trade server the other day... and I wasn't even selling it, upvote mate.
How is that even relevant? Yours is painted so of course they're gonna offer a bit higher than 12..
I've been trying for a couple of weeks now, I can't get any BMOCs for 11 keys anymore..I'm going to raise my price a bit today.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13043204 < the last time I had any BMOCs for sales..
http://imgur.com/wHGc6T0
-----------------------
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13453269 < this guy sold his BMOCs quickly for 12 keys.
op left out buy trades, here are a few. I only included trades open and bumped in last 24 hours. There are older ones not listed here.
buying multiple
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13551696 12 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13377937 12 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10788810 12 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12402450 same guy, also 12 keys, I include it as an example of a terribly written trade
maybe buying just 1
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13546558 12 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13553108 12 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13522369 12 keys
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13549511 12 keys
With 7 different buyers in the 4 pages of less-than-day-old trades, it is fair to describe 12 keys as a quicksell price.
Not gonna look at the people who are only buying one but:
buying multiple
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13551696 12 keys <-- closed trade within the day seems to have bought 6 b.m.o.cs. Shows how many people are willing to sell for 12 if 13 was possible they probs wont have gone to a quick buyer.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13377937 12 keys <-- bought 10 b.m.o.cs in under 5 days. Same as above
> closed trade within the day
And is now buying bmocs for "14 keys" in games. So he ran out of keys. Happens to the best of us.
Here's a new 12-key buyer to replace him: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13358909
And another, 12 keys + 3 ref: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13574790
There is a very strong buy market at 12 keys and even above.
> bought 10 b.m.o.cs in under 5 days
1. I sold almost that many at 13 keys in the same period. Almost as if bmocs are selling for .... 12-13 keys.
2. he had 9 on the 2nd and has 16 today. You can't tell how many he bought. Could you stop posting this crap, please? You pulled the same in your first "counterproof" post (it's not counterproof at all, just you saying irrelevant things about proof). Here's my copy-pasted debunk of it, for your reference.
__begin paste__
> 3 month old trade got offers of 12 pure never replies
Constantly bumped, has 12 key+2 ref offer from 3 days ago.
> wants more that 12 keys, UNSOLD for 3 weeks.
No BO given, has 12-key offers.
> 2 month old trade. barely any sold at 13 keys,
That's my trade he's talking about. Where does he get the idea that I sold "barely any"? From deep inside his ass, is where.
> unsold 13 keys 2 weeks dude
Trade untended (autobump) for the past week, which is when people started paying 13 keys. I would bet a bmoc that he's had multiple adds.
> highballer wants 14 keys.
was offered TS bill's + 6 keys
> 13 keys unsold 1 week
"13 keys pure. Have added " --comment from same trade
> 11 MONTH OLD TRADE?!
"would 13 keys do? " --recent comment from same trade. Trade is obv untended.
> 13 keys unsold 1 week...
had 4, trade closed, all sold
> hasnt sold he still has it in his bp
Trade is closed. Is a reseller so you can't tell what hasn't sold. Claims bought 3 but has only 1 in bp.
Are u so genious "Continue to http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12956479 " quote from http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13377937 , this trade , i bought 3 BMOCs for 12 keys in 5 days! Your counterproof is so full of fails...
Im not sure how being able to buy alot at 12 keys shows that 13 keys should be in the range.
If you can answer that question. You're kinda countering yourself here. If you couldnt buy even at 12 key then a higher price in warranted but you're posting links of you buying a decent amount at 12 keys ._. bro...logic...
If you couldnt buy alot at 12 key or sales are slow then it shows that people arnt willing to sell at that low price, buy you've provided links of people buying quite abit at 12 keys showing how many people are willing to sell for the lower price. How does this show that 13 keys should be in the range?!
again show us some proper links to sales at 13 keys.
>Suggests new price of 12-13 keys
>Owns 13
>Has 15 links in proof
>12 and 15 are both multiples of 3
>13 contains the number 3 in it
>Half-Life 3 CONFIRMED!
but wait...it goes deeper!
>12 and 15 divided by 3 equals 4 and 5
>14 follows 12 and 13
> 4/5/14 CONFIRMED RELEASE DATE!
My mind has just been blown d (^-^) b
I bet you HL3 will never be released ==
I really wish it was true but honestly, you gonna need way more sales at 13 range to convice people (including me) about changing the price of such a popular hat. Sorry, not enough for me... Try gathering more proof next time. Downvoting.
You know there are about 1/12th as many of these as there are buds, right?
The proof given in this thread, 20-30 links, is about 5% of all bmoc trades on outpost. It would be like posting 200 links in a buds suggestion.
Just take a look at the last suggestion: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51ca49784bd7b8e55f000006. Also, the amounts of counterproof clearly shows that it's not that easy to sell it for 13. Not atm.
Edit: It's funny how you support this trade while you have a whole page of bmocs, btw ^^
> http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51ca49784bd7b8e55f000006
Yeah, 17 links, fewer than in this suggestion.
> counterproof
Counterproof would involve showing bmocs unsold at 12 or below. You'll note no such proof has been given.
Pointing to a multi-bmoc trade and saying "old trade, still has stock," or pointing to a 14-key sell with 13-key offers and saying "highballer" isn't counterproof, it's noise. It says and proves literally nothing.
On the other hand, a list of 12-key buy trades, like the one I provided, is affirmative proof of sales above 12. A screenshot of multiple 13-key sales in one day, like the one I provided, is affirmative proof of sales at 13.
> funny how you support this trade while you have a whole page of bmocs, btw ^^
A lazy and worthless argument. If you have a problem with the evidence I put forth, state it. If all you have is ad hominem garbage, save it.
If you had just read a little bit... haha
Post made by: Derpeh
"Counter proofing all your links.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10041207 <-- 3 month old trade got offers of 12 pure never replies.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12703706 <--- wants more that 12 keys, UNSOLD for 3 weeks.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13160654 <--- highballer wants 14 keys coarse he is going to reject 12 keys.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11493842 <--- 2 month old trade. barely any sold at 13 keys, you need to account of item overpay.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13017552 <--- unsold 13 keys 2 weeks dude
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13388875 <-- highballer wants 14 keys.
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13265315 <-- 13 keys unsold 1 week
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/4099899 <--- 11 MONTH OLD TRADE?!
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13259976 <---- 13 keys unsold 1 week...
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13501412 <--- hasnt sold he still has it in his bp
Most of your links are ancient and they actually dont prove your suggested price at all. Not enough sales at 13 keys to be included your unsolds show this.
Please dont use ancient links as proof use more recent ones. "
Oh the last suggestion, you didnt find any counterproof (hopefully you noticed that).
There's a bunch of adds for 12 while 13 takes some days to be succesfully sold. I sold my s. shotgun for 2 keys (it took 1 week), should it be included in the range too? lol.
I'm just stating that it was funny to see such a coincedence happening, wasn't it? :D
Yeah that is the post I destroyed in my reply. It's a bad post that should not have been made. It's not counterproof at all.
> 3 month old trade got offers of 12 pure never replies
Constantly bumped, has 12 key+2 ref offer from 3 days ago.
> wants more that 12 keys, UNSOLD for 3 weeks.
No BO given, has 12-key offers.
> 2 month old trade. barely any sold at 13 keys,
That's my trade he's talking about. Where does he get the idea that I sold "barely any"? From deep inside his ass, is where.
> unsold 13 keys 2 weeks dude
Trade untended (autobump) for the past week, which is when people started paying 13 keys. I would bet a bmoc that he's had multiple adds.
> highballer wants 14 keys.
was offered TS bill's + 6 keys
> 13 keys unsold 1 week
"13 keys pure. Have added " --comment from same trade
> 11 MONTH OLD TRADE?!
"would 13 keys do? " --recent comment from same trade. Trade is obv untended.
> 13 keys unsold 1 week...
had 4, trade closed, all sold
> hasnt sold he still has it in his bp
Trade is closed. Is a reseller so you can't tell what hasn't sold. Claims bought 3 but has only 1 in bp.
> 13 takes some days
No, I provided proof of multiple 13-key sells per day.
> Oh the last suggestion, you didnt find any counterproof
Nor on this one.
he is just trying to increase his bp valueYou need more proof than that.
http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52062954ba25368d5300000c#520807e44bd7b85121000002_row
http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13386847 < sold at least 1 for 13 keys, click the BMOC on the right
i got mine for 12 not 13 like u said in the evidence :)
Did i LINKED YOU BACKPACK? NO! http://backpack.tf/id/76561198054662955?time=1375686000 thsi is the pots man NOT YOU!
Nope... you bought a lot under the current range so youve made this whole suggestion pointless! HAHAHA!
I put one of mine up for 12 keys and it got sold within 5 minutes.
This is kinda messy, and there isn't enough actual *proof* here. :/
You own more than the amount of DIFFERENT links you provided...
Downvote