Suggestion: Festive Winter Crate Key at 1 key

Price Suggestion

~50 keys

177 votes up

112 votes down

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This suggestion was closed Wed, 21 Aug 13 02:33:22 +0000 by neverclever.

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Comments

This is here to revert what in my opinion as a rare item collector was a poor decision made last month.

Last month's suggestion to raise the value of this key to '2 keys' was voted on based on a single trade showing someone asking to buy this key for 2 keys and getting no takers.

The facts are:

This is a rare item [url]http://stats.teamfortress.org/item/5049/Festive_Winter_Crate_Key[/url], about 140 exist; but,

In every backpack viewer except bp.tf it looks like a normal key

It has no special function beyond a normal key

To 99.999% of people it is worth 1 key

Note that I own several, and they sell for far more than 2 keys. Prices in excess of 20 keys for a single winter crate key are not uncommon, but it is extremely rare to find someone that wants one and sales are sporadic.

Keeping the price of a key at 1 key makes far more sense.

Still need proof.

http://bazaar.tf/trade/369298 C/O of 15 keys, but can't find proof of it. :/

My whole point is that there was no proof to begin with, the previous change should never have been made. These keys usually get passed around and traded as a key becasue they are indistinguishable from a normal key in-game and in the Steam client. The rare trades that do take place have ranged up to ~40 keys, but are extremely uncommon and proof does not exist since steam and outpost show normal keys.

ok, im stumped.

I'm pretty sure everybody is stumped.

i guess so.

http://bazaar.tf/trade/131226

bought one for 4 keys

Lol yep, he did. This should even be going up because of that.

But if we are going by total number of sales, most of these are sold as just a key because most people don't even know that the key they are trading is an old winter key.

The whole point of this suggestion is to ask people to undo a change made based on poor evidence like this.

No evidence it was a festive key, people often confuse the different expired keys.

Ballzar? 10char

I bought around 26 of these rare keys @ 1 key each. Most of the time I didn't even knew I got a rare key, untill I checked my backpack at this website.

Your final comment ruined your entire point.

I was kinda joking when i said that... but hmmm, if you wanna take it seriously, fine by me.

But hey, fixed it

Thanks for the suggestion. I think we (as a community and as mods) need to have a discussion about how to really value these. I'd like to leave this up for a while to see what people think.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13502556 - so there is this trade where the guy did buy for 2 keys and skaskanker will pay 6 keys for it but before that it passed through countless backpacks as just a key.

Do we cater to the collectors and value for what they are buying at with the intent to inform the general community?

Or do we base the price on what this is actually usually traded at among people who don't even know that their key is a winter key?

I personally think that we should cater to the collectors. We shouldnt hurt them just because people are too lazy/ignorant (or whatever word you want to use) to check their items.

Well it certainly seems backpack.tf caters to collectors when it came to semi-rare uncraftable hats/weapons. I don't believe this should really carry any higher value above a key since its clear whatever backpack.tf tries to list won't be followed. Its the same as having useless prices for normal quality items.

backpack already caters to collectors. Off level bonuses anyone?

Also, I would say no. No you shouldn't.

I also think that catering to the collectors is a good idea, because if everyone knew which keys were which, they would obviously try to sell for what the collectors are paying. To them though, it just looks like another key, so they value it as such.

Spreadsheets are great for common items that are traded in volume, but my general feeling is that rare items or rarely-traded items should be excluded or given a very large range due to the lack of data points.

Backpack.tf cannot hope to give a value to the majority of collectors items anyway, since their value can depend on many factors:

- Missing attributes (e.g. Numberless medals)

- Rare attributes (e.g. Multi-use backpack expanders)

- A level that is not normally available (e.g. Off levelled Genuines)

- A coincidence of properties that bestow value (e.g. a #51, level 51, Area 451)

- A rare origin (e.g. Support Granted items or Timed Drop keys)

Not to mention that many rare items are 1 of 1, meaning that, (1) subsequent sales could yield a vastly different price, and (2) the item may never sell again making value irrelevant.

Having a 'default' price and letting the tiny minority of collectors barter for rare items among themselves in going to be much less work for you. Setting prices for rare stuff is only going to encourage sharking, phising, and hijacking.

"and they sell for far more than 2 keys."

If they sell for that, then we don't lower the price. Your argument seems to be based on the fact that people dont buy them much, which is exactly the case for many collectors items.

If 99% of the time they sell for 1 key, and 1% of the time they sell for between 2 and 30 keys, what should the price be? Personally I am against setting prices for rare items at all. In this case the rare item in question cannot even be identified as rare in-game or in steam trade. The way I see it, we could set the value at:

1 key - becasue it is a key just like all the others as far as steam and 99% of users are concerned

2 keys - because one person was offering 2 keys for one recently

6 keys - because someone else is offering that

38 keys - because I have sold 2 at that price (I can post a pic of the trade, but as I said, steam shows them as normal keys)

Thats because people don't check their items. Thats their own fault for doing that, and we shouldnt penalize anyone who does check for them by lowering the price on here. I'd like to say it wouldnt matter what we put on here, since they can clearly go for more, but people follow this like the bible.

We need to find a price these actually sell for as collectors items, since that is what it is. This will involve people checking every day for them and selling them themselves.

As another mod has pointed out, the item only exists on bp.tf. Brad could remove it from existence by changing a few lines of code.

dirty items have the same concept. most people sell dirty hats at .66, when they're worth much more then that.

1-38 keys >:D

But still, I'm not sure about this suggestion. Having it at 2 keys is pointless, but then again there's barely any proof of this.

There was no proof for the change to 2 keys. A range of 1-38 might make more sense, but again no proof. Steam trade shows festive keys as normal keys.

It is still an item that you can't buy from anywhere else, it is rare like you said, and allows you to open crates with really high valuable items inside them. So my guess is that this key's price is good and if anything should happen to it is rise, due to how many awesome goodies you can get with the respective crate.

correct me if im wrong, but you cant open the respective crate as it dissapears on opening TF2

The key isn't even registered as a festive key. It's just a normal key.

Correct, but as with the spells it is possible to start TF2 then trade for the #6 Festive Crate. But even if you have this key, it cannot be used on the respective crate anymore (I tried!). For all intents and purposes it is the same as a normal Supply Crate Key

Its not a normal key... they are way more rare

people collect them and they are willing to pay a lot more then 1 key

Also you got NO PROOF so yeah... no

Read what I have written. They look and act like normal keys, and to 99.99% of users are traded as a normal key. The 'proof' given in the suggestion to make the price of this item 2 keys is extremely poor. I have bought and sold them all over a range up to 38 keys each. But trades are so rare, so sporadic, and range so vastly, that setting a value over 1 key cannot be justified.

Please take a closer look at the site rules before making your next suggestion; http://backpack.tf/vote?showrules=1

While I personally don't think bp.tf should attempt to price rare collector items (especially gitch normal stuff), and item like this where the majority of traders are uninformed is exactly the reason bp.tf exists; to inform people.

Without better evidence the current price is fine.