Suggestion: Refined Metal at $0.30–$0.33

i worked so hard at a suggestion and failed first with the range(30dollar - 33dollar :D) but then i did it again with 0.3 -0.33 and what bp.tf say??? a suggestion already exist with this range whaaaat 22minutes ago you did exactly what i wanted to do I HATE YOU :@@ :D, anyways if it helps heres my suggestion in comment form:

2 MONTH OLD PRICE!

since the key price rise fast as hell there should be an update at this range

Proof:

selling at 0.29$:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13810682

selling at 0.30$:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13788179

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13786775

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13776779

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13538447

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13601427

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13717913

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13796763

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13197877

selling at 0.31$:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13545319

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10614459

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12913642

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13502399

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13661847

selling at 0.32$:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13560330

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12419098

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13226650

selling at 33$:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13405585

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13622486

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13761605

buyers:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13814393 | 0.27 1add

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/8395291 | alot of adds @ 0.28

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9297544 | 3 or more adds @ 0.28

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10428584 | some adds at 0.29

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12553244 | 1add @ 0.28

------------------------------------------------------------------------

result: The most people sell refs from the range of 0.33-0.30$ so the price should not stay at this indefensible price. And if buyers at 0.27-0.29$ get tons of adds, it seems like the current price is not useable.

First link is 0.29 euros not 0.29 Dollars...

That's GBP, not Euros>__________>

gbp is higher than euro so it is even higher than $

yea sorry for the first link, that was a fail..(again:D)

If this will be accepted, someone will loose more than 3000 US Dollars!

Well, i'll be neutral

They wont lose because its already lower which is why theres a suggestion

WAY too little proof of unsolds and of people selling under the current price. Downvote

lol maybe you think there have to be tons of proof because its tf2 money like keys and there are 1000 of people selling ref for cash but the most selling keys, buds or their hole bp for cash, refs for cash trades are rare

metal (refined) sellers arent rare.

you just arent looking hard enough, or in the right places.

Obviously you haven't gone onto tf2 outpost and look at the most traded item in the game.

Oh rly? Just lettin' you know - 95% trades with usual hats(i mean with 1.33 price) are going with metal! Surprised? You buy a hat? - You pay with metal! You wanna strange? You also pay with metal.

So you're saying that we should use metal to buy a strange kritzkrieg and strange gunslinger? Sounds like a good idea to me!

I just noticed, that metal trades are 99% trades with hats, stranges, vintages and other cheap things. Also, if you want, you can buy BFTC for refined, good luck :D

No Buy A S. Kritzkrieg With Scrap.

http://gyazo.com/39dbec4da187e152efdaf22c2bc188fb

Yep, most traded is metal. Or most wanted, at least.

I would think metal would go up now that you can't idle anymore but I guess not.

answer with one simple question, WHY IS THAT SO OBVIOUS?!?!?!

Moar proof pls

If didnt already figure. Metal for money is not common

Then don't drop the price on it.

Im not its already sellin for less

"keys have been increasing in price by the last couple of months, it's obvious that metal will reduce in price $."

the most inaccurate sentence i have ever heard releated to economy of this game.

You need waay more then a few outpost links and some relations between currencies.

No offence.Downvoted.

"stupidest sentence i have ever heard releated to economy of this game."

How ironic.

EDIT: I love how you keep changing your comment in hopes of dislikers liking it instead.

Its true that metal would eventually go down if keys kept going up.

If keys went to 10 ref and $$ keys stayed the same. No one would by metal at .35 cents when they can easily get more bang for the buck with keys. If you have to be full retard to buy the metal in that situation.

Metal is bought for the convenience of not having to sell keys so i understand why the relation between isnt extremely important.

But the reason for metal to go down is because theres much more sellers at less and .33 seems to be the higher end now and more common pricing.

I recall woifi telling me that .34 is really slow like a few weeks ago

I've been waiting for this change for a while.

Where was this suggestion a month ago?!

Add more proof and it may be accepted. (Not sure)

Plenty of sellers i have seen at .33 on sourceops

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/148855-Keys-1-85-Refined-Metal-0-33-Earbuds-40 - .33 cents here

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/142973-KEYS-1-80-BUDS-38-40-Max-s-Refined-350-Rep - .31 cents here

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/144260-Refined-for-0-31-Keys-for-1-78-Earbuds-for-39! .31 cents here

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/145843-Key-1-80-Ref-0-33-V-bill-75-Buds-39-Max-77-amp-MORE .33 cents here

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/148820-Refined-Metal-31-USD .31 cents here

Should be .31-.33

.30 seems low

0.27$ - http://tf2-trader.com/index.php?topic=25046.0 Has no ref in Backpack.Asked him and he is NOT selling.

0.30$ - http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13788179 Has 1 ref in bp.Has no rep what-so-ever.Asks you to go first.Who would buy this 1 ref?

More to come,but you should research your links before you post them,this is just disrespecful.

He has no ref because I'm assuming he's sold them all?

That is what happens when you put something to market with a price under market.

"my bp is 10x worth yours" talk about snobby

Im only in the selling of keys for $$ but i can also see that metal isnt going at .35 cents anymore often enough to stay in the price.

And keys are overpriced on the site it will only help if a lower ref price gets accepted

This conversation is getting pathetic, We don't care about who spends the most money on steam here or who is the most expert trader, we're voting on a suggestion, for fuck's sake.

You can clearly see who initiated it.But i see your point so i won't answer to the post(s) above me.

First suggestion buds, second suggestion ref. Hardcore.

If 0.27-0.29$ gets a lot of adds, it's becouse they're selling refined for WAY under market value.

If you all realize, keys are also going up in price.

I will welcome this price drop, this suggestion has been needed for a little while but the next drop in the ref's value will be a lot later now as valve has finally decided to do something about idling,

but on the other hand, dropping the ref's value is not going to help much of tf2 in the main economic aspect as this is just another excuse to increase the prices of keys again and as we all know, the rise in keys has had a very negative effect on a lot of other items in the game like the bill's and buds.

Need's more links in my opinion for such a high traded currency, Staying neutral for now.

Needs more Links... a Few links for the whole economy? No For me. Stay away from my bp... Show Unsolds.

Most ref isnt sold for $$ so few links are the ref paypal market

Refined should go up, Since idlers Can't get metal Easly...

Looks like most figured a way to already

there is over 1,000,000 pieces of ref. more is being made today. none is being used to make hats, because of how costly it is. METAL WILL ALWAYS go down unless valve makes the cost to craft hats less.

Making the metal craft cost less would devalue craft hats, it wouldn't make metal more desirable.

Better idea would to make more craft exclusive hats and weps and make the hats brought on mann.co store uncraftable again, maybe people will start crafting their metal

so since keys are going up does that mean a bunch of stuff has to change too cleverpun. I thought you would know since youre a pricing admin.

The balls on this guy. First suggestion is for buds, the next is for refined. Props to you, sir. I would like to see a bit more proof, though this change is very heavily needed.

Just a simple FYI and reminder that metal farming is over. Which means metal should be going up. No more swarms of free metal like before. That was one of Valves ways of adjusting the market.

there is still TONS of metal. over 1,000,000 pieces.

Give some new craft items and this will go down fast with very lil recovery. Since farming is over.

Farming isnt over. Theres ways to still farm like before. And farmers didnt account for the huge amounts of metal. They were a small percent.

Really? I was one of those farmers, there is no easy way to do it now period. Until someone finds a script or something that can click accept farming is back to hard work. Don't get me wrong here but im loving the damage that's being done. I can buy so much shit at such a low price and store it in so many places its unreal.

Ive seen a way on the steam forums already and i think once on reddit but its not for massive farming

Yea ive seen the ones on steam forums, they didn't look to promising. The one on reddit i have yet to see.

There is, the people on facepunch have been using autohotkey.

"Festive weapons aren't obtainable anymore; they should go up"

"This event crate isn't obtainable; it should go up"

"Salvaged Crates #30 and #40 don't drop anymore; they should go up"

This is the same logic new suggesters use on basically every single item that's no longer obtainable in the game. It almost never turns out how they think. Its either a spike and crash or a slow, gradual rise with possible decreases.

The difference is still obtainable. There's thousands upon thousands of refined in the market and I there's hundreds entering the market each week. Now the inability to idle as normal is certainly going to decrease that amount (by how much is unknown), but you've still got a large amount entering the market every week.

If multiple people are willing to sell for less than current range, then it doesn't matter what you think should be happening; it matters what is actually happening.

This is the same argument as idling has been done away with in TF2, and therefore they should go down according to some. We've still got plenty of people willing to pay more and more for keys regardless of this information, and therefore keys are still increasing in price, so it doesn't matter on backpack.tf what you think; it matters what is actually happening in the market.

You have too little 30 cents proof to actually have it in the range. For example, most of the sellers have no rep or whatsoever, and the person who actually has some rep, the 4th 30cent link, changed his price to 31 cents.

For your link about someone selling for 34 cents, look at his bp history.

http://backpack.tf/id/76561198046821747

He managed to sell quite a few at this price.

I agree that a drop is needed but perhaps 31-34 or 32-34 cents is more accurate in my opinion.

"since keys have been increasing in price by the last couple of months, it's obvious that metal will reduce in price $."

lol'd irl

Loved the comment! ^^

http://bazaar.tf/trade/18646

bazaar shop seems to sell quickly at $0.32, anything below this also goes quickly

no where near enough proof for a currency item

Learn about the ref cash market before talking. Ref is such a rare item to be selling for cash. Its most used in item trades.

Oh man this would suck so bad for my backpack...

I have this thing for refined, take a look for yourself.

Its not like you would have been able to easily sell for .35 cents

Your bp value will stay the same because suggested price if accepted means it was already true.

I do think the low end is a bit low but the middle value will be the right price

Oh, i don't sell refined for money though. I just like collecting metal and watching my backpack value go up for fun. no other reason really, i just hog metal as a hobby.

I should really cash out for lot's of keys maybe..

Although keys are going up in refined, they are also going up in money. You used to be able to buy keys from sellers for ~$1.35-$1.40, now they're around $1.75-$1.80

Imagine all the keys i could buy back then with all this refined

yeah. back in the day one could get a key for 1 ref (of course, back then crates didn't have stranges, just weapons and rarer hats)

Heh, i would be rich! i guess i just gotta hold out a bit longer.. who knows? Metal prices might raise again some time when idling starts to lower down and keys start to fall again.

Keys are going down. I used to sell at 1.85 and managed to sell at 1.90

And now they have taken a slight drop to 1.75-1.80

Then why are they going up so fast in ref when ref has stayed the same for about 2 months now. I mean your talking a .05 to .15 cent difference and based off refined price that's a huge drop. Which what i see keys are dropping in cash value then refine must be rising in that .05 to .15 cent range. Or option 2 we are just dropping the price of ref for no reason other than to compensate for the drop in keys(which seems more likely in this case).

Ref has been lower in $$ for awhile now. Its not happening right now it has already happened.

Ref to Key Ratio doesnt affect $$ values for each other.

Most people just want to get rid of ref and hold keys so keys go up in ref.

Things for $$ go down this time of year because school has and is starting for most and there isnt extra $$ for virtual goods.

Also the time of year most people cash out

" Ref to Key Ratio doesnt affect $$ values for each other." That is like saying the second hand market (pawn shops, garage sales, goodwill, etc) doesn't affect the real world market. If people can get something for cheaper they will. If it takes some math to do the conversions people will do it. That is why different currency's have different values. If the amount of refined to get one key goes up, and people buy refined, then it will inherently have an effect on the cash value of refined.

Obviously if keys keep going up it will affect ref $$

But it is noticeable that there isnt a huge correlation. People will buy ref for a bit more just for the convenience of buying ref.

Just like how Buds $$ doesnt equal buds value in keys x key $$ value.

"Ref to Key Ratio doesnt affect $$ values for each other."

"Obviously if keys keep going up it will affect ref $$"

Why are you contradicting yourself now? Your argument clearly doesn't hold up even in your own head.

They do affect each other but they dont dictate each other is what i mean.

Thats why keys can go down in $$ but go up in metal. And reason why 6 ref is $$ is more then $$ of 1 key.

They dont affect each other but they can and will, in the future if keys continue to increase in metal.

I may sound like a noob, but there's only cents of difference...

Those cents add up over time...i.e. a corporation who wants you to get every last drop from a squeeze bottle..that's not good enough you need to take the lid off and scrape the inside because we have 10000 stores and if everyday every store left a teaspoon in the bottle it adds up quite fast soon we're losing millions in a year...

multiply those cents by the maybe hundred of millions of raw metal,unique weapons and all the indirect source of metal (craft hats, miscs, etc) the market will lose millions of dollars in value

I agree 100%, hell i fig by this time it would have crashed on itself.

SO MUCH PROOF

I'm no expert, but I doubt many people actually buy metal for IRL money, so i'm gonna asume a lot of these are quicksells. I may be wrong though :/. I'm not gonna vote as it's gonna be a close call on this one.

A lot dont and a lot dont sell ref for money. Reason why those linked are most of the sellers.

wouldn't the removal of idleling discourage the lowering of metal prices now that someone cant have 3 different accounts in order to stock up on metal?

People have found a way to idle. And no one knows how much idlers affected keys and metal amount.

http://backpack.tf/stats/5002/6/0 - As you can see metal has only been going up. And hasnt slowed down. So idlers werent a majority.

the possibility also exists that those who were a majority have not been affected by valves latest anti idling attempt.

Textbased idle doesnt exist. And it takes alot more to idle meaning metal farms can only be soo big now.

The price of keys does not directly influence the price of ref, nor the other way around. There are other factors at play here like the amount of ref in existence and being created (one of the actual reasons for the price decline) that should be taken into account. I would up-vote this if you had more legitimate proof and more of it. Sorry, but down-vote from me.

I'd like to ask, if refined metal is reducing in value, why are only keys effected?If metal were to go down doesn't that increase the value (in refined) of other items such as hats and stranges ?

Anyone got an answer?

So, until i get a legit answer to this question, I'm sorry but i have to downvote.

This also is a question to people who claim keys are rising because metal is going down.

okay basically to answer you Qs about keys here: http://tf2finance.com/2013_03/

Essentially summing it up:

--Keys are 2.5$ from store, metal is free you play you get. More players = more metal so they start bidding up prices of keys. Keys havent' "risen" it has been 2.5$ from the valve store and always have been just the "black market" price has gone up.

--The hammer of carders from valve stopping the economy's black market supply of "cheap keys"

--Valve introducing the upgrade to premium making idlers alot more effect in idling since you dont need a credit card now.

-- valve's continuous "new shit" the pyro then halloween then christmas then new years then robo then summer sale...etc people buy keys uncrate and mostly get a crappy craft hat. IE ising a key and getting metal so even greater supply of metal and less keys.

Votes on key/currency prices mean next to nothing since everone wants keys to go down and vote regardless of the proof. Eg the person below me who obviously hasnt looked at the proof himself yet claims that i should. Lol

Hope i helped :)

An f2p can't get an upgrade to premium gift, all the drops they get are untradable, no matter what(Probably uses the drops from a premium idle account to buy the upgrade to premium). But your other points seem to be right. Thanks.

Also i when i say price of keys, I meant it in refined, not irl money sorry.

But all you need is one non f2p account and you can spread it to every other account. There was this guy that got 2000 idling accounts banned by valve a few months back lolol

Yup i realised but thats the reason why it's going up in ref. Because keys are 2.5$ from the store and metal is "free" and easy to get. So you have keys stationary while metal moves accordingly

I'm voting up, cuz bazaar.tf official is selling at 0.32$.

http://bazaar.tf/trade/18646

Appeal to authority.

Upvoting because a drop has been long overdue

Fuck you. You aren't even looking at his "proof"

Its people like you that make this price voting system inaccurate.

It's not that hard to find a seller below 33 cents.

Voting on currency means next to jack, everyone votes based on opinion and thus the proof speaks out loudest. Eg yourself who hasnt accepted that refs are going down.

spend a few seconds on outpost and you can find quite a few sellers lower than the current though i would question the 30cents but a obvious decrease in price is needed

Just because some people are selling a certain item for a certain price below the current BPTF price, doesn't mean that the price range should be changed. Unsold means that the price they ask is either unfair, or they're unlucky. Betting on the first one here.

If the majority sell for less then it should be changed.

And no one mentioned unsolds....

B-b-b-but my bp will drop almost 3$! D:

key prices are going up because key bankers use backpack.tf as a way to manipulate the system so in the end they make profit by selling more than keys are worth which in turn raises key prices which they go over again and again and again

not gonna be one of those guys like O MAN KEYS SHOULD GO BACK TO 2.55 MAKE ECONOMY BETTER... that wouldnt change anything

i just think people should stop using bp.tf as an excuse to raise prices

I think the real reason people sell for more, is to see if they can get more.

They sell in seconds maybe if i sell more i can get more and it will take a bit longer.

Key increases go against key bankers motives, because they need to buy keys for less then they can sell and it takes more trades (longer) to make a key profit from the scrap profit they get. So in the end they lose potential profit.

I agree with your post. And i downvote this suggestion due the lack of proofs.