Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 5.88–6 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

1962 votes up

1595 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was accepted Thu, 12 Sep 13 05:58:48 +0000 by SirJjjon.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Okay, before I get to the buyers, I'd like to give some insight into just how fast 5.77 ref sellers sell out. I added this guy http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14275236 to buy his key. After adding him, we had this conversation: http://i.imgur.com/Ga2iSyv.png?1 Yes. That's right, 3 people added him at once to buy for 5.77. That speaks volumes right there.

Now, for regular proof.

Buying for 6 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14273426

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14275227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276561 - Just wants 2

Buying for 5.88 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14167378

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14148922

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14195923

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274524

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14265189

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14237685

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13823131

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14235335

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14181372

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14223505

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14265085

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13863071

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13580249

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13330366

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13725991

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274328

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14152377

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13731435

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11898914

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13599180

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10806553

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13910439

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12024968

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14146124

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13504493

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14176046

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12729897

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11494475

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14090233

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13288359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13416422

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13819888

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12169061

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13514329

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14275064

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13498180

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11851316

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14266243

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274957

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14253184

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13595397

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14052746

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9744610

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13463120

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13688954

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11076954

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13760323

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14084973

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14009065

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13838483

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10707606

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13818773

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14264791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14185648

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12840376

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14194004

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14273562

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14084973

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262719

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14232654

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12451301

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13928278

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14159677

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14252607

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14252222

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14269045 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14268062

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14268473 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13931399

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14208237

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13514329

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14266243

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13762941

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261338

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12840376

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14194210

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277278 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14264791

FAQ:

Q: Keys are sold for 5.77 fairly often. Why would you remove that from the range?

A: Because the wall of 5.88 refined buyers I've posted makes 5.77 refined invalid. It is a quicksell. Anyone selling for 5.77 refined is snatched up faster than a woman is chewed to bits by piranas in a James Bond film. People need to know that they can sell just as easily for 5.88 as 5.77.

Q: I couldn't help but notice you have 258 keys. Aren't you too biased to make this suggestion?

A: Well, I'm only updating the price of keys in refined metal. If anything, this suggestion would hurt me if passed, because I only buy keys for refined, I don't sell them for refined. In fact, I haven't put up a trade selling keys for refined in months. Don't believe me? Comb through my trades: http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/165380

Q: Why haven't you posted proof of unsuccessful 5.77 refined buyers?

A: Well, for one thing, my wall of 5.88 refined buyers makes the 5.77 refined buyers invalid. If anyone sold to the 5.77 refined buyers, it would only be for two reasons: 1. They didn't bother scrolling down slightly to find a 5.88 refined buyer or 2. It's 2 AM and only the 5.77 refined buyers are online.

Q: Why haven't you included any sellers in your proof?

A: Because the higher end has already been proven. I'm just removing the low end, which, in this case, really only requires buyers at higher than 5.77.

While its a lovely thought that you can come up with the theory that 5.77 is a quick sell, you really need some proof that it is.

Im gunna have to be neutral for now.

did you miss the wall of links of people competing to buy at 5.88? what kind of proof are you looking for?

proof that proves 5.77 is a quick sell, idc if he thinks (even through logic) that it is, i want to see proof.

you don't even know what you are asking for. the fact that tons of people are willing to buy all the keys they can afford at 5.88 each IS proof that 5.77 is a quicksell.

he doesn't have a single link proving that 5.77 sells quickly (def of a quick sell) im not sure y you can't wrap you brain around this concept, but... he doesn't. again, sure its a decent logical argument that lots of people are buying at 5.88, but he points out himself that keys are sold at "5.77 fairly often." i just want actual proof to back up the argument that 5.77 is a quick sell.

copy/pasted from my response to another user

- Seriously, why is that necessary. Any informed trader can see that dozens of buyers are willing to pay 5.88 at any time. Selling for less indicates that you are either irrational or uninformed. Gathering links of these sellers just to show that they sold quickly is unnecessarily tedious.

im not disagreeing with the argument, simply asking for proof. its not unnecessary, quite the opposite. its completely necessary. a good suggestion should prove that the current range is inaccurate (through actual proof not just decent arguments) and prove that the suggested range is accurate. he has proof that keys sell for 5.88-6, just not anything more then his argument against 5.77.

You are actually wasting your time reasoning with "the monkeyboy". I can assure who that he just skimmed through your responses picked few words and wrote a reply XD

or it indicates u dont wanna make huge profits over other ppls backs;)

I put my key up for 5.77 and had like 4 or so buyers add me.

can you post a link/pic to the trade history?

http://i.imgur.com/FY7kfkb.png

sweet, thx

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14215530

dunno if this counts, two people have been trying to get a hold of one for 5.88

Was on a server the other day where a guy joined and began selling 35 keys for 5.77, he was out in 10 minutes. Upvote.

Anecdotal evidence.

Regardless of what you think, it influenced my descision to vote in favor. Not trying to sway anyone else, simply providing what I've seen for my reason to upvote.

Could not help but to point this out:

Scrap.tf is buying keys @ 5.77 ref.

http://scrap.tf/keys

Click "Buy Keys".

A message will appear saying "There are currently no keys available to buy."

Queue is completely empty almost all day.

Upvote.

no one likes crap.tf anyway.

scrub.teeff

Like it's been said before, it's just there for convenience, and is not really good proof.

"no one" = 35,232 Steam group members.

Hey, look, even you're a member!

GG at stalking meh, I leave group anyway, thanks for telling meh

Creepiness is necessary when information is needed.

I Shall Stalk Cleverpun Nao

(also a member of the scrap.tf steam group)

what???

every time im go check, they have keys

http://gyazo.com/7bcfa07fbecc8c75561fa2add566d8c0

We need actual proof that 5.77 is a quicksell, not just deductive reasoning.

if anything scrap.tf was selling at 6 ref and buying at 5.77 till 2 days ago

the demand for refined is huge in the market since last update

now scrap.tf lower it to 5.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274482

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274349

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274270

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274130

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14273662

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14272566

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9770220

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14272166

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277897

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14278104

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277801

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277751

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276842

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14275236

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14278104

i wouldn't suggest a rise but a lower wider ranger for now 5.66-5.88 is the best and most accureate as we speak

i had i want to sell trade for 3 days at 6 ref with out a simple add !!

downvote not accurate

Look at how fast those keys sold...

i know but you see for ppl to decide to go that low they failed to sell higher

i think that 6 ref is not here yet 5.77 it is still here

they could have sold to any one of the dozens of buyers listed in the OP, which makes them irrational or uneducated in the market

so many of them unenducational

might be the byers at 5.88 ref is

most of them are buying 2/3/4 keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14279249 5.88

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/search/id/52240478ba253691688b4582 5.77

as we speak

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14142879 seller

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/365311 bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14279517 seller

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/389957 bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277663 seller

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/317297 bp

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14279487 seller

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/209742 bp

You've been here long enough to know, that logic doesnt apply to tf2

Scrap.tf isn't a valid proof/counter-proof and it doesn't matter how much they are asking for keys.

Gonna stay neutral. I dont think just a list of people buying at 5.88 is enough to change the price, need more types of proof for me.

the reasons that people will make up to remain in denial have become laughable

I'm sure that it's not that impossible to get a key for 5.77.

Also your FAQs are invalid, your wall of buyers at 5.88 are not enough, really, show us people failing at buying for 5.77 and i'll upvote this.

how on earth can an FAQ be invalid

I posted a trade BUYING for 5.77, and was added within 5 minutes. 5.77 is not a quicksell, its just within the key price range

you sir are rich :P

Proof/Counter proof

Sold for 5.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14285072

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14248086

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14242497

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14241799

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14239139

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14238808

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14250474

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14252716

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14253826

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14255051

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14255125

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9768832

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14258859

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14265697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14266359

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14269091

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271059

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274130

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274482

Sold for 5.77 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14284307

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14254453

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9768134

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14247216

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9768056

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14246997

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14245544

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14240340

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14249066

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14249240

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9768335

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14252159

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14252805

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14253928

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14254132

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14254504

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14254773

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14275236

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14282266

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277897

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14278104

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14279133

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9770851

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14280243

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14280552

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14280876

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14281434

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14258471

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14259488

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262072

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14263355

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14265048

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14267337

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14265307

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9769729

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14268321

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271725

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9770085

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14272566

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14273662

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274349

All links are within the last day

Quite a lot of sellers below 5.88 but I wont classify it as counter proof nor proof the community/mods can on what to consider this.

Feel free to use these links but plox credit :)

And most got inundated with adds within a minute of it being posted. 5.77s clearly a quicksell price. If you got inundated with adds on any other item trade then you would clearly raise/lower your price.

It goes both ways since there are still large amounts of people selling for the lower end which is why i didnt want to force it to become counter or proof for the suggestion.

Also like most items which is selling for the lower end gets detected by trade.tf which also constitutes to it's faster selling pace in addition of it being a currency.

it might not be a quick sell just people often try to buy keys at lowest price possible

maybe 5.66 quick sell

If you're going to show low-end, you need to show buyers, not sellers.

As i said it im going to let the mods/community decide on what to consider these links. And final already did buyers.

More solds #2

Sold for 5.66

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14325841

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14323943

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14322399

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14317941

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314804

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314976

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314651

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14313041

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14311453

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14299473

Sold for 5.77

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14316395

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314312

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14300513

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14296259

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14324514

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14303916

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14303808

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14320778

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14322746

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314248

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14325535

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9774817

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14325284

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14306235

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14321255

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14320492

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14320392

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14317804

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14320015

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14317580

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14299346

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14316698

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14316659

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14306180

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14303462

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14302576

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14300660

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314030

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14313800

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14313089

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14313456

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14303731

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14312374

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14310653

all links within the last day, can get more if needed i guess cbb going through bookmarks

Same deal with last post not gonna classify it

tf2finance.com never reach 6 ref in keys history.

you 6 ref buyers are no longer buying practically noone buys keys for 6 ref

the keys should be 5.77-5.99 with current proofs

um 5.99 is 6 refs xD

" Because the wall of 5.88 refined buyers I've posted makes 5.77 refined invalid."

And tell me what kind of logic is that? Let me remind you that 5.77 is in the range because of succesful buyers at that price. Not sellers. I'm not going to ask every single buyer @5.77 again since everyone should've already understand that they are succesful.

But if there are still people who thinks "are they really succesful?" Let me post my proof from a week ago. Might uptade it later (Since i just woke up):

5.77 BUYERS:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13809129

dominikgalarowicz™: hey

dominikgalarowicz™: how can I help

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Hello there. Sorry I'm not here for trading bussiness. But here to ask you a question.

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Have you bought any keys @5.77 in last 7 days?

dominikgalarowicz™: yes

.....

About an hour later:

dominikgalarowicz™: I got some more proof

dominikgalarowicz™: http://puu.sh/4fqXS - http://puu.sh/4fqVX

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/11238190

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Hvave you bought any keys @5.77 in last 7 days?

Nefertirioz: yes

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13884674

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Have you bought any keys for 5.77 in last 7 days?

CompactDisc S> 6 unusuals: erm yea

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13855799

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13569007

Guess we can see it.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13941082

Claims he bought.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13738437

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13950839

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13847279

Final2500: Did you bought any keys at 5.77 ?

♥Mochii♥~: ive bought over 40

Final2500: In last 5 days?

♥Mochii♥~: and resold

♥Mochii♥~: yes

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13648385

Claims he bought.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13432827

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Have you bought any keys @5.77 in last 7 days?

Katsumi うう〜☆: yes

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13845273

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Have you bought keys at 5.77 in last 7 days?

Vladimir: yes, 15 i think.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10859707

Michael Puddington: 2 or 3

Final2500 [Nova ●]: Alright, thanks for the info.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13881551

Veroser: about 2-3

This is an excellent way of providing counter-proofs. 5.77 is definitely in the range and the logic of using so many 5.88 sellers/buyers to prove that 5.77 is out is just non-existent.

Seriously, don't believe most of these liars.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13847279

Final2500: Did you bought any keys at 5.77 ?

♥Mochii♥~: ive bought over 40

Final2500: In last 5 days?

♥Mochii♥~: and resold

♥Mochii♥~: yes

Where is his metal/profit? Where is his trade? Where are the buyers/sellers on the trade?

Not all sellers comment.

If you want to believe he bought over 40 of them without any comment on his trade, you're a bit naïve.

TO ALL DOWNVOTERS OF MY COMMENT:

Please link/proof what I asked for.

'faster than a woman is chewed to bits by piranas in a James Bond film. People need to know that they can sell just as easily for 5.88 as 5.77.'

^^^^^^^^^^^^

Best part

Almost upvoted solely for that

^_^

owns 256... hmmmm i wonder what his motives are for doing this?

anyway same problem as last time, logic=/= a good suggestion and claiming 5.77 is a quicksell with no proof to back it up other than omission just wont cut it for keys. downfloat

With the logic that the lower end is quicksell, keys will rise and never stop rising until the point of stupidity has been reached. Obviously someone selling the lower end for a currency, will get adds, it's a common item that people regularly trade for. Does this make it Quick sell. I don't think it does. I feel that just because it's gone rather fast, It doesn't mean that it needs to be raised. It's because it's a better deal then buying from someone who is asking for higher than the price. Granted all proof is based on outpost (Greed central) but if you simply drop into a trade server you will see that many trades go on for the lower end whilst the high end take ages to sell.

Ummm, I do care about prices, but I think your taking it to the extreme :/

Up vote!

My bot is buying for 5.89 refined

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14290308

That's a bot.

add more links

buying 5.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13963467

selling for 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14053865

Sorry hatch derpys counter proof is way too strong for me to upvote he has just list another bunch! Maybe keys have slowly stopped raising? Anyway like I said I have to go with a downvote sorry.

I just put a key up for 5.88 and got like 2 adds in less then a minute Lol

Not hard to buy @ 5,77

http://imgur.com/QiyC2Ue

http://imgur.com/QWSi3EG

Bots buying in 5.88! .-. lol RISE

inb4 #savetehkeyz

inb4 cleverpun warnings

inb4 counterproof

ON TOPIC: You forgot my trade for buying at 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274743

Dixie, wasn't for this very same reason we got banned last week?

He tried to keep it on topic this time, I suppose

And in hopes that I don't get banned,

http://bazaar.tf/trade/356063 bot buying for 5.88

We should try hiding near that corner over there and hide from the warn attacks

KEEPING ON TOPIC:

Bots aren't really good proof, but there's lots of actual people buying for 5.88 tho

Pyroman has missed yet ANOTHER rep farming opportunity. What a sad day it is for him.

nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

I'm still making other unusual suggestions tho.

3 weeks without a price change? New record don't you think?

Anyway, dat wall of 5.88 buyers O.O Upvote

it's long overdue

No amount of time is ever long overdue, at least in my eyes. Keep those keys low for as long as possible! :K

Tf2finance was actually going down for a bit until hatch made another suggestion lol It was at 5.9 then dropped to 5.84 then 5.82 now it's back at 5.89

http://puu.sh/4mw9H.png There no NEW RECORD anymore :c

If anything, I expect someone to come with lots of links of people selling at lower prices, even if they're instasells

"... In fact, I haven't put up a trade selling keys for refined in months. Don't believe me? Comb through my trades: http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/165380"

We can't see your trade history from Bazaar :P How do we know you haven't been selling them there and won't in the future?

Here's his bazaar and tp history http://bazaar.tf/profiles/76561198027508164 http://tf2tp.com/profile.php?profile=76561198027508164

iunno, there's stilll the possibility he sells them externally

even then, it shouldn't matter. people should be voting objectively

indeed

I don't see history on Bazaar. I only see the one he has open. And yes. People should be voting objectively. I, for one, think 6 Refined is ridiculous. I don't want them going up any more than they already have.

>people should vote objectively

>I think 6 refined is ridiculous

I don't think you understand what the word "objectively" means

I think I do.

Objectively. As in "I object to this suggestion. I don't like it." However, I guess "objectively" means "I am for this" as opposed to "I am not for this". While the word object means to "Express or feel disapproval". This is why the English language is messed up.

adjective: objective; 1. (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Cleverpun to the -drum roll- clever rescue. Pun has been made.

-On Topic-

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14125361 @6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/6962413 @6.33 o3o claims to have sold 5

I also want to point out that keys on the market have risen to 2.30$, making the value of refined go up or making keys go up. Right now, money wise, keys should be around 7 ref, but since idling is now harder refined could go up slightly.

I wanna be that first guy to have a list of links about the suggestion this time round.

Proof is good and I can agree with it but 6 Refined does not sell quickly and most people keep trying to offer lower, the lower range is fine but 6 ref at higher range in my opinion is on the borderline of decent price or just over price and with the ammount of people failing to sell at the upper range, its what made me consider this, anyway eat these links.

Failed sellers at 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261888

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14235457

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277697

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277712

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14249346

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271990

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14235457

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14170748 sold bulk at discount.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14018548

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14158173

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14267981

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276517

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14244180

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14270151

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277270

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14254771

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277238

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14109607

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14103051

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274914

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261397

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262037

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14250347

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262088

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276963

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14255688

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276919

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276848

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276776

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14218330

I shall be waiting for a flood of comments that will not be pretty.

Damn . .

if the lower range is right but 6 ref is not a good higher range, then that means according to your logic the only doable price is 5.88 flat.

But flat prices don't really work on keys...

I just don't think 6 ref is perfect for the items value when people find it hard to sell it at this price.

But last time keys had a flat price was way too long218 ago.

Its long218 overdue

your first two links had buyers, I stopped looking after that.

first 2 links removed, stopped removing links after that

you should make sure the rest of your links are good, since your credibility is pretty much gone, in my eyes

Double checked over them, they are fine.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14255688 - sold 2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14103051 - successful

you're not very good at this

a totally agree that 6 ref is nowhere out there in the market you need to be extreme lucky to sell for that

valves updates are starting to take effect

Let's begin, shall we?

In order:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14216969 Day old. Sold at least one (check history)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14242864 Day old. Out of keys.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261888 <10 hours old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14235457 Day old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277697 Cancelled trade within one hour.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277712 Sold within 40 minutes.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14249346 <Day old. Check history of keys - sold a few

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271990 Four hours old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14170748 Has sold at least one key, but can't tell at what price (check key history)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14018548 This is an odd one.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14158173 Another odd one.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14267981 Might've sold. Might not have. Has keys and metal in BP.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276517 One hour old. No keys in his BP.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14244180 Day old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14270151 Five hours old. Sold at least one (check key history).

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277270 One hour old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14254771 <Day old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277238 One hour old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14109607 Has sold at least one in 6 days. Unsure of how many he's sold total.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14103051 Has sold at least one in 6 days. Again, can't tell how many has been sold total.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274914 Okay

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261397 11 hours old.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262037 Has sold at least one within 10 hours based on the key histories.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14250347 Sold one within a day.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262088 <Day old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276963 One hour old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14255688 Sold at least two within a day.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276919 One hour old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276848 One hour old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276776 One hour old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14218330 One day old.

Out of all of these trades, I would have to say only one is for-sure that isn't sold at 6 ref and two are "maybe maybe-not" sold at 6 ref. All of the other ones have either sold at least one or are too new of trade to be used.

Besides, 6 ref is the higher end. Items don't insta-sell at the high end unless a price bump is needed to change the higher end to the lower end, and from the looks of it, it's not needed (and you should be glad it's not needed).

However, this proof, however bad it may be, does not disprove that 5.77 ref should be removed from the range.

I hate to be this guy, but...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277697 - Sold 3 of them

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271990 - Sold 4 of them

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14235457 - listed twice

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14158173 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14267981 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276517 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14244180 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14270151 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277270 - Sold both

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14277238 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14109607 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14274914 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261397 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262037 - Sold all of them

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14250347 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262088 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276963 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14255688 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276919 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276776 - Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14218330 - Sold

Nice attempt to counterproof, though. But much can change within one day...

Ill stay neutral until you actually prove that 5.77 is a quicksell

my god, you're the third person to say this. how can he prove to you that 5.77 is a quicksale? he has already provided a wall of buyers who are willing to pay more

And 5.88 is in the range. Show sales at 5.77 that sell out in an instant. One instance of 5.77 selling fast is not enough

Seriously, why is that necessary. Any informed trader can see that dozens of buyers are willing to pay 5.88 at any time. Selling for less indicates that you are either irrational or uninformed. Gathering links of these sellers just to show that they sold quickly is unnecessarily tedious.

Its a currency suggestion. There are hundreds of buyers out there. If he really wants to say that 5.77 is no longer in the range, then he can prove that it is a quicksell. Until he has done that, I remain neutral

honestly, you failed last time, what makes you think your gonna pass this time with almost the exact same proof. 5.77 is still very possible,

with that many people competing to buy at 5.88, you'll need to show several successful buyers at 5.77 for your comment to hold any ground.

Several? I would say you need TONS

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1lzhel/h_1600_refined_w_keys_at_6_refined_per/

pitacular the first guy that comment is accused by me for multiple account and price manipulation tactics many times at the past

he had use them all to even push the mods to ban me for practicaly no reasons

with no succes.

"accused by me"

quite the reputable source

The amount of an item someone owns doesn't matter as long as proof is solid.

Not sure on this one, the same suggestion has been closed several times over the last few weeks.

You never announced a winner: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/1933-salvaged-mann-co-supply-crate-50-giveaway

dat old giveaway

if it's still on, I'm in

That's right! If this suggestion gets accepted, this guy'll get a whopping grand total of 13 ref added to his $1175 backpack!

We better stop this, guys!

This could end really, really, really bad.

Not sure if sarcasm. Seriously. It looks serious and sarcastic at the same time.

I upvoted the loose Cannon suggestion because I need that 0.25 scrap increase in my BP value

Don't you need solds for a upbump?

he has a wall of willing buyers at a price higher than the low end he is removing. what sales are you asking for?

I was just wondering because I saw a trade for an uppricing and there were a lot of links but the people said he needed solds.

they were probably sellers asking for more than the current price. these are buyers willing to pay more than the current price.

ok. you didn't have to dislike my comment I was just asking a question. I am staying neutral for now.

keys are the main currency of tf2, you cant expect them to not sell quickly..

For the past few weeks, I've been keybanking. I used trade.tf for finding good deals (i.e. 5.66 and 5.77 quicksells) and if I found someone, their key was sold in seconds. If you want proof, please try the same thing yourself, you'll find 5.77 is indeed a quicksell.

Needs to be lowered again, this website broke the price of keys, if you think about it, spreadsheet actually lowered keys at one stage so thatg they wouldn't go higher than 3 ref, and as soon as this site gave votinhg, people became greedy, voting against this

Yea, your right. A userbase increase of 4000% shouldn't affect the price of a major currency in anyway...

If you think keys should be 2.33 Ref, then Gasoline should still be $0.25/gallon.

Gasoline is a finite reason... and technically yes it should be cheaper then it is. Oil companies are among, if not the most greedy of all corporations around the world. Why? Because they can be. You have to drive places, not very many other options so... they increase the price, putting out propaganda to prevent people from taking action against them.

Actually, gasoline, adjusted for inflation, is worth exactly the same as it was in 1920. Gasoline prices adjust to currency shifts at least once a day, often more. Cost of living raises and salary adjustments happen yearly at most.

None of this has anything to do with this suggestion; take it to the forums.

It does not matter whatever the price of keys rise up to in metal, they will never go above the mann co shop price. However, the price of refined will drop to accommodate for the key rise.

I bought 1 key for 5.77 yesterday (the guy was selling on a trade server) and 2 keys at 5 ref each (what a steal!) today again from a trade server. I don't feel 5.77 is an outdated price yet.

5.77 is a quicksell price, they get sold almost instantly.

This is anecdotal evidence, need some proofs, would be glad to see the proofs though.

Sorry but I think your in this because you own so many, I downvote. And your 'conversation' dosen;t even proove you got the freakin key :p (and it speaks 'volumes' because people want keys at 5.77)

First off, no one with 50+ keys EVER sells them for Ref, people who have that many keys want nothing to do with Ref. So not really sure how keys going up in Ref benefits them in anyway.

Secondly, Keys are impossible to buy at 5.77 Ref, i've been buying them at 5.88, and at most get 1-2 adds a day.

i sell them for ref :)

"And your 'conversation' dosen;t even proove you got the freakin key :p (and it speaks 'volumes' because people want keys at 5.77)"

you realize this supports this suggestion, right?

5.77 a quicksell? try posting an ad for BUYING at 5.77refs and you will get several adds dude, this is only to force the market to the 6 refs flat mark, because the reality is that is very hard to sell for 6 refs now, there's still people buying/selling for 5.77 refs, is still possible.

Please show me these trades....I struggle to buy at 5.88 (1-2 a day tops)

he's saying it's easy to buy them quickly for 5.77, which is completely unsupported

which part of "post an ad and specify you are buying keys for 5.77 refs and you will get some adds" it's not clear? also don't expect 100 adds dude, if you wanna buy 10+ keys you should pay the high end price or 1 scrap above, since you are expecting quick keys

No, im not expecting quick keys, but 1-2 keys per day at 5.88 indicates that 5.88 is clearly below the average.

wanna know the truth of trying to get quick keys? The truth is that you must pay atleast the high end price because people that will end up selling to you really don't need the metal but will try to re-buy them for 5.77-5.88, hence making a profit, in the worst scenario they will end up paying the high end price too just to "recover" the keys they sold to you

Jy, you've spent the last 8 hours trying to present reasoned arguments about why other arguments are invalid--why not just find more proof yourself instead of having clearly unproductive debates?

I think there's enough proof in the OP for the suggestion to pass and providing more of the same would do nothing to convince people standing behind faulty arguments.

I don't know. It's just difficult for me to see poorly reasoned comments trying to persuade other voters and to leave them unopposed.

Given that Hatch made a similar suggestion a week ago (no links at 5.77, quicksells or otherwise), and it was rejected, I would call that logic just as faulty as the ones you are trying to combat :P

It's just as easy to dismiss the logic through which the last one was closed. It could be argued that it was simply a compromise to appease the mob support of the counter-suggestion to lower the price.

with the volume of 5.88 buyers, any seller that sells for less is uninformed or irrational. I don't believe the value of an item should be based on such traders.

But imo sellers are sellers, and there are still a large amount of "uneducated" traders who regularly sell for 5.77 some even 5.66 ref (i have a few people added which stock up regularly and sell for 5.77 ref :D)

Think we've been here long enough to know that logic doesnt apply to tf2 :l

The entire point of having a moderation team in the checks and balances is so that mob rule doesn't happen. The mods are only human, naturally, which is all the more reason to provide as much evidence as possible.

All trades buying for 6 ref are done. I think 5.88 should be a flat rate.

This is also considering the guy had 1100 refined, and it was completed in <10 hours

5.77 is also still very possible, sorry. Downvote from me.

excellent proof.

You are removing 5.77. You have shown 5.88 is possible yes, but there is no proof that 5.77 is not possible. Downvote till proof of 5.77 being near impossible. You are removing it from the range so adequate proof should be provided.

Im pretty sure 100+ buyers willing to pay 5.88 greatly outweighs any singular sales at 5.77

No. 5.88 is already in the range. He needs to prove no or very little sales are happening at 5.77.

The problem with buyers is that they dont look for trades tho :S

lol you mean if I had to buy 10 keys then I should spend the whole day hunting for key bargains?

As in the logic which people are like 5.88 buyers are everywhere...etc. I opened a 5.88 key trade for the last suggestion and had no bites for more than hour, even with the wall of "buyers". Only got an add when i posted the trade on the suggestion as proof when Hatch then added me lol

I opened a 5.88 key trade for the last suggestion and had no bites for more than hour, even with the wall of "buyers".

Dosen't that mean that 5.88 keys sellers are redundant and it's safe to say that the key prices have successfully transitioned to 6 refined? Of course with an exception of sitting all day next to your computer hunting for key bargains, as most of the 5.77 ref sellers are 1-2 key sellers, that get shit tons of adds in 1-2 seconds. Gosh !!! I am even scared at the thought of sitting next to computer all day for buying a fucking key. Hats of to all the people to their commitment for keeping 5.77 in range, they must have their bums made of steel.

As in a selling trade for 5.88 refs lol

Problem is that those with buying trades dont look around to buy keys. Imo i dont think they are that hard to get either in trade servers or sometimes outpost, still sellers popping up now and then. The logic of quickselling for keys is abit iffy for me. If keys are at a good price it will be taken quickly and the loop continues.

Tf2finance was showing a slow drop in key prices and was stable around 5.87 ish then this suggestion was made and it shot to 5.9

ha ha ha a bit of a misunderstanding there.

They might not look around, but an undeniable and concrete fact still remains that very very few key resellers at 5.77 ref pop up and you literally have to be on the right spot and at the right time to get them.

The way I see it, if things become that hard to acquire at a given price and the ones sold at that price are sold even before you blink your eye then that item automatically falls under the category of quick selling items.

There's still no problem getting for 5.77

Downvote for now.

So... I post something useful. "Keys are going down.... duh. Try playing on a trading server." and it gets "Warned" by Cleverpun. I guess.... trying to explain to people not ALL trading happens on outpost is a "abusive comment and or troll" Well... i took the time to make a screenshot of my recent key PURCHASES on trade servers. http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/576748110629916285/BF035E58069636DC6BBE9895AE51DC882655350A/ I also had to learn how to get it into Steam, so I didn't look like a moron posting a photobucket link. Well... by the timestamps you can see 2 of them were within an hour of each other (one is cut off) and the rest of them happened within 20 minutes of each other, hours later early in the morning.

So...... buying 10 Keys, in a total of maybe 3 hours on trade servers over basically a 1 Day period because I hadn't gone to bed yet, constitutes keys not being able to be bought anymore at 5.77? As I STATED many times. Using TF2 Outpost for "Proof" on pricing was and remains to be a terrible idea... more people should post screenshots. (Keep in mind I ONLY posted a collage of keys I bought at 5.77 or LESS since the last time I was on trade servers (usually play hale most days), I also happened to get a few for 5.88) Also... Keep in mind, I didn't spend 3 hours looking for keys. I was trading items I wanted to sell, and posted my macro whenever remembering to "buy keys".

Had you posted that image in your original comment I would not have warned you; contentless comments are all the more noticeable on key suggestions because of the their high comment volume.

O okay, Thanks for responding : )

If 5.77 is a quicksell, why are people selling keys for 5.66?

they either aren't aware that they can get two scraps more with no added effort, or they aren't acting in their own self-interest

And yet they are still acting. This website doesn't run on logic and self-interest. It reports the prices. If a good number of people are selling at 5.66, regardless of how quickly they sell, they make up a share of the market.

>This website doesn't run on logic and self-interest. It reports the prices.

The values of items here are based on logical traders who act in their own best interest. Check out all the raffles on tf2r. Should all of those items include "free" in their value on this website?

I think a lot of people fail to realize, that keys are whatever price you want for them. This website is not a bible, this website is a way of knowing APPROXIMATELY how much an item can be sold for. After a while of nickeling and diming the price up, yes, it will eventually double. I could sell my key for 26 ref assuming I could find a buyer, or I could buy one for 22 ref if I really wanted to. You don't have to follow backpack pricing, but ass many people do, your odds of buying at different (lower) prices, becomes slimmer. Once again, this website is not "law" when it comes to pricing, it is merely being misused as a "bible" if you will.

I agree. I'm not entirely sure how it was relevant to my comment though. Just because this site shouldn't be used as a bible doesn't mean we shouldn't keep the values as accurate as possible.

Oh I know I'm just flailing <3. Even though tbh, I don't much care, because I don't even have that much XD

upvote even so easy to sell at 6 ref in trade severs

My trade is in the proof and I have 271 ref stock right now. Whoever sells for 5.77 does not know how to search.

unless you have a 24/7 bot or something your argument is invalid, you are not the only guy who buy keys search the first ad that the seller is online

I'm not the only one, look at the proof. and I'll be online for at least 12 hours today.

Bought quite a few 5.66 keys recently and even 5.55 in one instance, I can upload proof but I'm pretty busy atm

Okay, first off, I checked through my original proof list, and it appears a majority are still buying, and a few have closed their trades.

On that note... EVEN MORE FRESH LINKS ON TOP OF THAT. I made sure each link was new using ctrl + f

Buying for 6 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271101

Buying for 5.88 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13804538 - My own trade. I only buy maybe 1 a day, if I'm lucky.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14276827

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14290810 - Has lots of refined in stock

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13834795

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14201645

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14284425

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13156698

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14287555

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14271333

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14288344

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14046615

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261371

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14265314

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14284743

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14243514

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14262509

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14249012

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13912048

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14081966

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14248833

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14162594

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14289577 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14286635 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14232424

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14289281

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14289147

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14246284

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14288302 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14287804

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13435789

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14235892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14261640

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13401082

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14230683

I'm not going to be against nor for the rise of keys, but I just want to say I have not bought a single key for 5.88 since last week and I had my trade on an hourly autobump.

It really does seem that keys should increase, but when it comes to keys, I know whats the best to do: stay neutral

>It really does seem that keys should increase, but when it comes to keys, I know whats the best to do: stay neutral

how does this make any sense? what are you afraid of?

So if a sudden increase in key prices would crash the economy like everyone seems to think, then how would a sudden decrease not do the same thing, if not more damage....

Keys aren't crashing anytime soon. Stop living in the past and just deal with it.

Your point of view... Buyers can also swing the market: if nobody buy for 6 ref, price will automatically decrease !

That why i said stop buying for 6 ref !

6 ref = 108 wep = 10/11 week of drop for only 1 key! do you think it's normal ?

2.5 mounth for 1 key....lol

Implying that idling should be efficient. Nothing in life is free, so why should keys?

Look at banks, they give you 1-2% interest. So it would take even longer to make $1.80 from $0.015~ (1 weapon) in a bank. (20 years to be specific--assuming monthly interest)

How do Valve and Paypal benefit at all from the Key:Metal exchange rate changing?

I laughed at this whole conversation. I still fail to see how it is relevant to the suggestion.

I also love how CURRENCY is only based off of outpost trades. This is just me flailing here, but shouldn't they be based off of all trades? Outpost may be a large help, but that's where you post something hoping someone finds it. I don't know, I still buy several keys at 5.77 in servers, but w/e.

The vast majority of trades that occur are on OP. You're more then welcome to use server proof, you just need to have a lot of it, 1 or 2 trades doesn't constitute a lot.

My point is the argument "it takes x weeks to make a key now" is completely irrelevant and should never be mentioned.

I understand that its a game, but why should valve just hand out free money? (and no, you don't actually have to pay for the game).

I'm neither happy nor sad. Things change, nothing stays the same. As soon as something stops growing it begins dying, i.e. as soon as something stops changing it starts to come to an end.

How does keys increasing in Ref help me? Keys going up doesn't help (or hurt) anyone. No one with 50+ keys ever wants to deal with metal, these people all hate having metal, metal sucks.

Stop living in the past. Things change. Those who adapt survive, those who don't die.

I have a screenshot that i just bought one for 3 ref and there was a guy selling more for like 5.55. down vote for me!

PROOF: Keep in mind this is in real time trading.(AKA in Server)

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/630791076186162309/00B75EB0810AB5EDBDACAC04120F2B2A4522A912/

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/630791076186145572/A71D2405F04D70800E817D2618A88171B80D2A93/

this proves what?

Proves there out in servers and more common that ppl think. There was 2 in one freaking server. You can post anything on a website and let it sit but in real time trading you see items go for a slightly different price.

you know pics of chat don't mean anything, it could've been set up or something, post a pic of your trading history

not to mention it doesn't prove anything, as both of these are just way below the range and there's lots of sellrs and BUYERS at even higher ends, both of these sellers are just ignorant or completely uneducated.

Probably because they just wanted to get rid of them for an absurdly low amount when you can easily get lots of more from it?

Also, what makes me ignorant? The fact that people go on servers selling their keys for less because they don't know what they can potentially get?

The "jesus they're monoplizing the whole place" line looks rather suspect.

Also, you can't expect things to strictly have a set price everywhere, I've once got an s. shotgun for a ref because the seller didn't know its value (most likely) does that mean it should go down because a single seller decided to sell it for less than a sixth of its price? of course not

LOL!^^^ you are ridiculous now your calling me names, ahaha. As far as your screen shot you nvr asked but to continue to prove you wrong here it is https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/36316726/3refkey.jpg . I also found out that there are alot of ppl that join my servers and many others to sell keys cheap as they find the prices and market a joke.(see unlike your self i do some research and not pretend to know what im talking about).

Attn: admin i am sorry for the bs that has been posted here but some ppl ask for it.

says the one who started off calling me ignorant, and I DID ask for the pic on my first comment (not directly, but it was implied), and this is no bullshit, it's YOU the one who's bullshitting, and if peeople sell keys for cheaper it's because they're just completely ignorant, as I said, about the fact that they can actuall sell for much more, and people buy those good deals to RESELL, and they succeed in doing so. I DO know what I'm talking about, being misinformed is just being ignorant as they don't do any research, it's you the one who is biased. Now stop flaming while making youself sound intelligent, it does not work. I know people will disagree on my end because #savetehkeyz, but that doesn't matter.

This is an easy upvote.

Have to downvote, put a trade up buying a couple keys, got one on my second trade bump.

Proof: http://imgur.com/KSipWOl

Congratulations you bought 1 key. Go buy a few hundred more and you may actually have proved your point.

Well, I have quite effectively proved my point. I bought a key in the current range, below the suggested range, in a very short period of time. This, and many other comments above prove that 5.77 is still very viable. Therefore, it should be left in the range.

5.77 gets snatched up instantly, thats clearly not viable.

I'm not going to vote one way or the other on this one, but I have a serious question:

Is there anyone with a stockpile of keys, like easily 50 or more, that's selling for 5.77? Like, I can sometimes find the rare guy who's selling 2-3 keys at that price on outpost, with his trade burried on page 13 somehow and no one has bought it yet, but I never find massive sellers at 5.77. I can find idk how many bots and stashes and sellers for 6 on the money, and sure I know everyone usually wants to get max value out of their keys, but really it's unbelieveable the disparity of how many 6 ref (or even higher) keys there are out there than the bottom of this range.

It seems incredibly hard to not only find these people selling for 5.77, but to actually BUY the damn key from them before 15 other dudes beat you out because they nerd-stalked outpost, bazaar, etc harder than you did. I mean I have tried mashing my f5 key as hard as I can and it's literally impossible sometimes. Trades less than a minute old getting swooped up. That doesn't seem to indicate that 5.77 is part of the "friendly, everyday take a stroll" range. People sniff out and pounce on keys that low as if the world was going to run out somehow.

Pretty much, also 5.88 isn't all that much different, at most i manage to get a couple keys a day at 5.88.

Are you seriously going to reply to absolutely every comment against this suggestion?

Because hes selling them for ref right?

People who have 50+ keys generally don't sell keys for metal.

I was joking jeez. If I was trying to make a point i would have at least used propper grammar. =D

Please explain how this benefits him....He hasn't sold any keys in at least a month if not more. So how does keys increasing help him?

Also this isn't specific to Hatch, its a general thing, very few people who have more than 50 keys ever want to touch metal if they don't have to; I.e. they don't sell keys for metal, they just buy keys with metal.

Good proof. Its only a matter of time before the next one gets accepted. GOod luck my friend

There's always that one person who will defend a controversial suggestion to death.

Anyways, staying neutral as always because people have yet to produce counter proof, yet all Hatch is showing is 5.88 sells.

Hes showing an abundance of buyers at 5.88 eluding to the fact that anything less is a quicksell.

"There's always that one person who will defend a controversial suggestion to death." c;

Doesn't really matter what I think anyways. Up to the mods when it comes down to it.

Key suggestions are made every day<Give keys some breathing room.

Limit put on suggestions that they have to wait at least 3 days<Gives keys some breathing room.

Just accept it, keys are going up.

Why is that?

Please, name a single other real-life currency that hasn't fluctuated.

Give me a valid reason other than "people can't afford stuff", which isn't even valid, nothing in life isn't free, even in a game.

Keys are obviously going up. No doubt about it. But he needs to make a suggestion when there is no counter-proof to show. Then it won't turn a key suggestion into a spam klunk of "I bought keys for blah blah." or "inb4 Cleverpun warnings!!!11" Mature people will be smart to realize that keys will inevitably be going up, and up, and up... I don't hate HRB by any means; he just needs to give keys breathing room. Let the consumers make a clear choice.

Sorry to cleverpun in advance. ^3^

Also, I'm just curious to see what would happen if we did not make a key suggestion for a long period of time, just to see what happens. Not for the reasons I said above, just out of curiosity. I wan't to know what the community would do when backpack.tf stopped making suggestions. If anyone has any reliable data on how we would handle this, please let me know.

While I do agree the 5.88 proof is solid, once again dude, you gotta prove that 5.77 buyers can't buy and that 5.77 sellers are going as quicksells.

Look no further than Derpeh's proof. All of his 5.77 links sold in less than a minute.

Some of them took more than a day to sell, including the one that you bought from ;)

You mean to tell me its possible that a couple trades got lost in the 200 new trades every 5 minutes? Whaaa, no way, i dun believe you.

@Hatch, go away, this is my turf.

mmk

Want some bonus links on top of my extra links on top of my main proof? Sure. Why not.

Buying for 5.88 refined each:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14301695

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14294997 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14133844

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14301341 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14160698

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13706399

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13543542

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/9981866

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14303335

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14284645 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14159568

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14300880

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14049962

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14291790

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13432203

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14299803

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14299446

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14105146

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14298422

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12098055

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13368805

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13912363

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14296277

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14297474

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14205169

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14297206

How is it killing the economy? You will have to look into past suggestions to see the successful sellers at 6 ref. 6 ref was proved a week ago. No one likes to waste time proving and acknowledging same thing again and again.

i've sold mine for 6 ref and have sold over 50 in the past 2 weeks. this guy obviously is clueless.

Just a reminder to everyone saying that people selling at 5.66/5.77 are irrational and that it's a quicksell price: Quickselling is defined as selling BELOW the current established price, and this holds even more true for currency, such a widely sold item. Also, this site doesn't seek to distinguish the irrational from the rational - it reports on the trades shown in the market. If people are selling keys at only 5.33 and 6, then the range should reflect that.

Downvote.

There are also people who sell a key for a weapon because their misinformed and those that end up getting a 2-3 key item for 1 key, plus you can also unbox an unusual with a key....

So, i think it would make more sense if keys had a range of 0.05 Ref-$5, i mean a key can/is traded for anything between $0.05-$5, and technically more if you count unboxing.

just need to point out, quickselling is not defined as selling below the current price, which would make it fairly impossible to have lowering of price, as everything would be a quicksell by that definition.

quicksell is based on the time it takes to sell, i don't trade keys for metal and otherwise, nor do i know how fast they should sell or something, but with normal items (hats/stranges and stuff) its a quicksell if it sells in less then a day.

When I went to a server to buy some keys some days ago...

http://puu.sh/4nHlT.png 8keys for 46.11 (5.76 each)

http://puu.sh/4nHmJ.png 5.77

http://puu.sh/4nHmD.png 3 for 17.33 (5.78each)

http://puu.sh/4nHmx.png 5.88

http://puu.sh/4nHlJ.png 5.66

It will always be possible to buy at low-end of bp.tf price. Price goes up, then the traders will sell for 5.88 instead, really as simple as that in-game.

I think that in the same way you claim 5.77 to be a fast sell, the 6ref is a fast buy. That guy who had over 400 ref and bought for 6ref each all sold within like 36 hours.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14281434 was mine...

I got added within the first 10 seconds...

Actually, I almost believe that 5.88 flat would be a good bp.tf price of keys atm. 5.77 sells fast and buyers for 6 get plenty. However, 5.77 sellers are snatched up quicker than 6 buyers, I do have to say.

Just putting that out there, this is opinion and you don't have to agree with it.

I agree, I often thought the same thing. Sellers don't seem to want to sell for 5.77, but sellers that sell for 6 hardly get any. 5.88 flat is a very nice price range, plus it makes it harder for "pure traders" to crash the economy more. So like I said, 5.88 sounds like a very nice flat price.

nonsense, i have sold a ton of keys for 6 ref.

I didn't say it was impossible, just took longer. How long did it take you?

just sold 2 an hour ago. i've been selling them at this price for 2 weeks.

Cool, either you're lucky others are unlucky then lol. In my recent experience 6 ref has been a relatively tough sell, not impossible but infrequent.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13644697

this is my trade, originally i was buying for 5.77 with no luck, i switched to 5.88 and over the past 2 weeks have bought about 50 or so.

i've just switched it back to 5.77 to see if i can get some proof that people will sell them for that price.

but from my experience checking for 5.77 keys on this site, people who sell them for this price are sold within 30 seconds of posting.

no adds for 5.77 in 14 hours so far.

i didnt bought any keys for 5.77 in the last days, so upvoted

nvm i just bought a key for 5.77... http://puu.sh/4oCFJ.png

5.88-6 ref right now you guys

I laughed a little at that too, but you gotta keep in mind, theres like... what? 600,000 keys or something?

They're keys. They are currency. If he owned 256 say S.F. weapons he was trying to raise, that would be suspicious.

i wonder when these items are gonna stop going up. well got my vote

I can't wait till' this is declined.

I for one don't think this is a good range, 5.77 is fine as it is, im already getting 1-3 adds every day or so for even 5.66! This is silly, not to mention the obvious 258 keys in his inventory aren't really helping either.

Please find me his trade where hes selling them for Ref.

I'll wait.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13077313

What does that have todo with anything....

You said "find me his trade where hes selling them for ref."

What do you mean by that.

Oh, you meant Hatch's trade. Sorry. :\

Agreed! This really is a good price for the moment.

Excellent Proof.

Idk if it matters, but I put up a trade about a week ago to buy 2 keys for 5.77 each, and I got added for one in less than an hour, and the second added me before the end of the day. If sellers are still willing to add buyers for the low end, I don't see a reason to increase the price.

http://puu.sh/4o5re.png

http://puu.sh/4o5u0.png

It actually took me a while selling some for 5.88

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14245848

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14236981

Were the trades well bumped?

Never, but i advertised it a lot, backpack, friends, etc

Instead of having 5.77-6 ref change to 5.88-6 ref, why not just state it at 5.88 solid or 5.77-5.88? 5.77 sells moderately quick, but not as much as quick as 5.66, since they get insta-adds for 5.66. Another point is to take out the 6 ref since it's hard to sell for that, when you can easily get one for 5.88? I find 6 ref buyers just desperate to get someone to sell them a key quicker for higher price. These days, trying to sell a key for 6 ref is like selling a White Bills for 8 keys... You'll eventually find someone buying for that price, but it takes time since most people know you can get one for 7 keys...

Exactly my opinion that I typed earlier up c: 5.88 flat would be way better imo.

i sell them for 6 ref constantly, how would that make any sense? just because you WANT them to be cheaper?

yeah analyzing his proof seems that 5.88-6 refs buyers are people who cashes out or sell keys by paypal

I just can't take these Key prices seriously, when a guy that suggests a price has +200 of them, the proof is good, but it's just silly to me :P

Please be careful everyone, if you say something that cleverpun doesn't like, he will warn you. Cleverpun please don't warn me, if you get rep for reporting then tell me please instead of warning, I am just trying to help people. I don't mean any harm here, and if you don't like what I am saying, please just tell me.

cleverpun is a moderator of the site and is meant to ensure that key suggestion comments are constructive and useful to the discussion. There does need to be 50 people on a thread spamming "oh god no!", "here we go again...", "obvious price manipulation, just look at how many he owns".

All these comments with complete disregard for any proof provided nor does it do anything to further the discussion on keys. Moderators are not all opposed to people saying keys should decrease in value, if you actually looked, then there are plenty of objective comments open stating that keys should decrease or remain at current price.

Cleverpun doesn't care at all about rep, nor does he get any rep from warning comments. There's a FAQ page for a reason: http://backpack.tf/faq#q1

ok. I just didn't want to get warned again, I said something once that seemed to be relevant but I got warned.

I assume you mean your comment on this suggestion: http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5220f4d24f96f432358b4568

"Hatch just stop you are fighting a losing battle, there is no possible way you can win, sorry to say. Look how many dislikes your comments got."

- legomaster445

Completely objective and relevant. /sarcasm

no I wasn't meaning to be sarcastic, I use these ** for sarcasm. that is what I dislike about typing sometimes. so everyone else was arguing with him and not getting warned.

I'm not saying your statement was sarcastic, I'm saying my after repeating hours was sarcastic. Your comment was completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and seemed to build a straw man's argument against Hatch simply based on the number of dislikes his comment received. Its no different than pointing out the number of keys he owns. People can already see that, there's no question about it. Focus on the proof actually provided or provide counter-proof. Those types of comments are nothing more than another thing to scroll over.

ok I was trying to help him not lose rep. just trying to be nice, but that stuff always happens to nice people I guess.

so there's no "warning quota" or something like that?

No, if people never posted comments that were unnecessary, then there'd never be a need for a warning system. You think they'd actually put in place a warning quote because its just so much fun to read posts and warn them? Moderators read through almost all of these comments on every suggestion which is boring as hell. Having them read irrelevant posts just lengths the time they need to take and thus its warned for being a useless comment. If you clicked on any of the warned comments, then you'll notice they don't actually add anything to the conversation.

I like how some people complain that key prices rising are making it harder and harder for newer traders to break into the TF2 economy, yet every day I see trades like this: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14321352

Already trying to sell keys for 7 refined, yet his backpack is worth less than a Bill's Hat: http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198091777817

The poor are just as greedy as the rich, and just as much part of the problem.

Who is to say this isn't an alternate account of someone else who is much richer?

Having 2 accounts is quite popular, especially when trying to do troll trades.

And as for new traders, sure its hard, but its like setting up your own business. The more $$ you invest, the better it is to get trading. The $$ going to Gaben for snicker bars and you get keys for easy trading. And with such a fucked up economy, it is super easy to profit.

what you think = proof.

And I think unusuals should all go down by half their price because I can't afford them. So what?

You win this time Hatch.

upvote. you have good proof, and I wonder who and when the next suggestion will be. (please cleverpun don't warn me im saying good things this time, can you tell me if this is relevant?) with all this proof, it must have taken a while, because its good proof.

I think recent warnings were over comments defending the 5.77 refs or the typical useless comment "why are keyz raising?"

comments aren't being warned for simply supporting 5.77 being in the range

"my wall of 5.88 refined buyers makes the 5.77 refined buyers invalid"

You forgot to put a troll face

Why would you put such an illogical statement in a proof? If 5.77ref is a quicksell, how come there's just so many adds for keys at 5.77ref? If it's a price range you're trying to justify, keys can just as easily be brought for 5.66ref (as Hatch shows), so why not 5.66-6ref? You do have good proof but its just as good as the counterproof posted by users here. Honestly, if you can prove a key buyer unsuccessfully buying a key at 5.77ref for 8 hours then I'll upvote so if you resuggest key prices if this fail, emphasize unsuccessful buyers rather than its saying its 2.AM because its not 2.AM everywhere simultaneous and it not a valid reason.

Yeah i can easly sell it at 5.88!!

ok last comment I will make and consider this as a counterproof to your FAQ, invalidating it.

Let's take the existing range as a bell curve representing the number of trades where 5.88 is the "peak" while 5.77 and 6 refs are the lowest points of the curve, but wait what does this means? it means that 5.77 refs should,in theory, have the same number of sales than 6 refs so the range can be "statistically" correct, so to discard 5.77refs you will need to prove that 6 refs occurs MORE OFTEN than 5.77refs or that simply 5.77 refs doesn't even occurs ,that will justify a change to 5.88-6refs, but what you are doing is just justifying the "peak" hence justifying the existing range dude. My comment is based on the normal distribuition so I consider that it counters the validity of your whole suggestion.

also if you want us to show a "MIGHTY WALL OF PROOF" for 5.77refs that will be bigger than your 5.88refs wall, that will never happen, if that was so, then that will mean that even the existing range is wrong so we were wasting our time on this suggestion instead of posting one to actually drop the keys with that 5.77refs wall, we are trying to show you that the current range is still viable while your logic for your suggested range seems to be invalid, thanks Derpeh for the counterproof. Also trade.tf still show keys as being sold for an average of 5.88refs http://www.trade.tf/price/5021/6 , if your suggestion was actually right, trade.tf will need to show a value of 5.93~5.94refs that will be the middle between 5.88 and 6 refs

Trade.tf takes keys into account with other items, not just metal.

come on keys! :D waiting for next suggestiong :)

Bought a few for 5.66 each yesterday:

http://imgur.com/AvWoMWQ

I'll keep looking through my history to see if I've bought any more around 5.66 and 5.77 over the past week or 2.

Also this suggestion takes so long to load all the comments on my pc:/

I agree, I bought a key not long ago for 5.66. I easily voted against this one. So much counter-proof

In that conversation, you made it seem like you had scripted the conversation. "Oh really? It's almost like that price is... a quicksell." I mean come on. At least try when you are attempting to script a conversation lol

It's a real conversation. I ended up buying the key he was selling for 5.88. http://i.imgur.com/uRhQDez.png?1

I don't know about it, but there seems to be a lot of counter-proof shown. Unless I see a lot more proof (and no, I don't mean "5.77 is a quicksell" or "many buyers at 5.88"), its a downvote from me.

I feel like everytime I post a new round of proof, the verdict is delayed by a few hours. Oh well.

Buying for 6 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14323890 - Just wants one

Buying for 5.88 refined:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13729794

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13809987

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14323981

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14319225 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13737367

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13956483

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14309540

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14302374

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14010368

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14322814 - Wants two

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14315293

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14312816 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14325524

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14314054

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14263649

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14317731 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14153230

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14310882 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14218082 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14321290 - Just wants one

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14318892

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14312938

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14331157

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14295293

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14315729

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14331635

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14327418

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14044845

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14325648

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14293460

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14333447

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14333356

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14323325 - Just wants one

Other:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14334322 - Buying for 5.93 refined

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14330689 - Wants to buy 10 keys for 60 refined all at once.

You only own 258? ~~GET ON MY LEVEL~~ Upvoted.

258? Lawlz, just go on a fucking unusual buying spree.

Oh and definite up vote. Keys get eaten up if sold for less than 5.88. And you have to HUNT to find a seller@5.77 or 5.66.

What you think they should do and what they realistically doing are two different things. Backpack.tf doesn't change prices of items, it simply reports on the changes which have already been happening. Although what you are saying may be true, you can't simply just suggest that we drop them in price, look at how spreadsheet turned out by doing price manipulation. Absolutely nobody uses it now because it's not reliable. We're here to report prices on items, not create them based on bias.