Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 6 ref

Price Suggestion

~57.22 ref

2122 votes up

1123 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was accepted Tue, 24 Sep 13 04:54:30 +0000 by [GIRL] Mr. Bucket.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

Say what you want, lazy proof is contributing to the borking of this economy. I'd suggest sticking with a flat key price from now on unless you find it absolutely necessary, far too much ambiguity with a range, giving people a license to justify sales at higher than what they need to be. Overly unnecessarily simplified, a dollar isn't worth 90-110 cents for a reason. Just a suggestion.

Selling

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14538973 5.95 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534623 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529279 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534622 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534000 6 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436510 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529835 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529345 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529132 6 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436756 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529405 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529784 6 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436174 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533947 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537440 6 ref, has an add

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532970 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533081 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533803 6 ref ea, bulk

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534570 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530605 6 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436728 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537179 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537349 6 ref

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9793594 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529442 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531441 6 ref, selling 3, reseller

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531735 6 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436175 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532903 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536832 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536635 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534013 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534245 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533852 6 ref

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9793546 2 for 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533300 16 for 6 ref, 2 adds in an hour

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533889 6 ref, has an add

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534719 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534702 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534498 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534285 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534466 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14539208 was trying to sell for 6.11 each, lowered to 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532890 6.11 ref, offered 6

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436340 6.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531819 6.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536953 6.11 ref

Sold

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532073 5.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536841 5.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532405 5.77 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529387 5.77 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529156 2 for 5.77 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530729 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14539175 2 for 5.88 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537287 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530584 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531946 6 keys 5.88 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531433 4 keys 5.88 each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530088 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534291 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534180 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14538886 5.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530256 5.88 + wep

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532995 6 ref - wep

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530171 2 keys for 5.88 + wep each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14511443 8 keys 6 ref each in past day, reseller

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9793960 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532941 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530032 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529343 6 ref, sold at least 3

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534151 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529537 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536789 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531026 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537477 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537161 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14538816 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530480 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536639 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529085 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536495 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529852 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529176 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530974 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537242 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529677 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529906 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537098 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530018 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532551 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529845 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530111 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530484 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530548 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531292 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530741 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14513544 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529733 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532378 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532496 6 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/436317 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530362 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532411 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531499 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530956 6 ref

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9793651 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531547 4 for 6 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532710 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14538544 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529495 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531098 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531105 6 ref

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=9793680 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532553 was selling for 6 ref, sold for compatriot

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532693 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532079 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532107 sold out 28 at 6 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532686 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532982 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532672 6 for 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534354 4 for 6 ref, reseller

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533933 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532947 3 for 6 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534259 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534017 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14528972 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532289 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532651 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533739 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533348 2 keys 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533424 3 keys 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533512 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533660 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531198 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533587 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529048 quite a few 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532793 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534138 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530375 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529402 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529434 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531872 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534224 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531931 6.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531114 6.11 ref probably

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14529950 6.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/backpack/330589 looks like sold 3 for 6.11, raised to 6.22 each

http://imgur.com/a/BGdfd more bp.tf classified sales. If you're too lazy to look at all the images, there's a 5.66 ref sale, 7 5.88 ref sales, and 12 6 ref sales. Classifieds also saturated with 6 ref keys in general all the time

Buyers/key shop bs

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14530377 Buying 6 ref each, has over 100 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14496699 Buying 6 ref each, 36 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14536388 buying 6 ref each, 24 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537753 Buying 6 ref each, over 50 ref, lot of keys

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534613 Buying 20 keys at 6 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14537536 Buying 6 keys at 6 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14470160 Buying in bulk 6 ref each

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14497732 Buying in bulk 6 ref each, over 400 ref

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198061541936 hyorin bought ~150 keys for 6 ref each in the past 2 days, posted screens http://imgur.com/d0SpypW http://imgur.com/pQKxHIx http://imgur.com/TNi4Uk5 http://imgur.com/U9llIiq http://imgur.com/LCFdR9i http://imgur.com/JD6GSjT http://imgur.com/KuzHeI3 http://imgur.com/ZPQuMQa http://imgur.com/SBJFWKw http://imgur.com/rtlCnfh http://imgur.com/Je5U9Mx

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14531242 buying 5.77 selling 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14532333 buying 5.66 selling 6.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14418829 buying 5.88 selling 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14533403 buying 6 ref selling 6.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14534549 buying 5.88 selling 6.11

Conclusion

99% of this proof is just from the last 8 hours. Meaning you could literally make a sheet of key sales like this at least every 8 hours that gives a very good idea of the market at that exact moment. And it isn't difficult or even time consuming. Half of a good key suggestion is the actual price you decide on with the given proof, and 6 flat is pretty much a no-brainer. A counter-suggestion had to be made, huge majority of sellers and sold at 6. Quickbuyers are extremely common at 5.88, but still plenty of buyers buying in bulk at 6. 6.11 not even close to solid right now, but they still occasionally do go for that price, as shown by the previous suggestion, and a 6 flat price does take that into account, as well as the lower sales- clearly neither of these prices should be the norm right now. All I had to do was discredit 6.11 and 5.88, and I think the proof serves that purpose, showing how solid 6 ref is. (Side note, just because I didn't note next to the trade how many were sold doesn't mean only 1 was sold. Many cases were 2-3 or more).

Feel free to:

Give negative feedback based on experience

Supplement my proof

Give counter proof

Give an argument for keeping keys at 5.88-6. I'm not seeing it, considering all the 6 ref sales, but you can still try lol.

Feel free to not:

Spam

Say "upvote" and add nothing to the suggestion

Speculate about the economy (no one fucking cares about your opinion on inflation. So tired of it. qq)

much, much better proof than the other one, easy upvote

I don't even feel bad for upvoting. I sold a key for 5.88 this week in approx. 2 seconds. 5.88 qs, 6.11 not valid because of the 6 ref sellers. Eeasy upvote.

gl man, you even got pyromans support.

Meh I guess I should upvote this as opposed to Pyroman.

I LOVE THIS RANGE! UPVOTING d(^-^)b

Stops people buying at the lower range and selling at the high range :D

Where are the keys are rising!!1 caps lock flamers :[ thought it came with the suggestion damnit, I'm completely disappointed. I'm going to be honest peeps. Can't see them going up anymore. 6 ref is extremely solid, no range, no ambiguity, keys @ 2.40 on comm market, halloween update incoming. Seriously need to scrutinize key suggestions 10x more than you ever have now. If you can't make a solid price there's a reason for that. If you have to make a range in order to pass a key suggestion it's probably a weak suggestion.

Nice proof! Upvote :)

Best damn suggestion I've seen in awhile. upvote

Sold mine for 5.88 in less than an hour, upboat from me. rip in peace tf2

http://imgur.com/PbnWHv2

"a dollar isn't worth 90-110 cents for a reason"

Well Said.

lol at this rate, keys will go up to 8 ref since 1 ref is like 30 cents and 1 key is 2.49 mann co store.

better stack up.

This isn't paypal hon ;)

may not be paypal, but it still will increase but won't go over 8 ref. if it does, the tf2 economy is legitly messed up.

Course it will, refined metal price would just decline...

Looks really good to me and I like the flat key rate idea upvote

"a dollar isn't worth 90-110 cents for a reason"

that hurt to read. keys are commodities, like gold, not currency like dollars.

lol are they? They're the closest thing to a currency we have, and as long as people are willing to pay $1.75 paypal they consistently stay the exact same price, gold fluctuates crazily. Might as well be a $1.75 bill in your tf2 bank. In this game economy if we're making comparisons you'd use keys to invest in "commodities". If you're going to correct me, don't do it with a statement that's just as subjective and irrelevant that basically boils down to "these are like this word, and not like this word." Especially when they're basically interchangeable in a lot of ways.

my comment was neither subjective, nor irrelevant. I was countering an incorrect argument of yours. if keys were an inter-changeable currency with metal, there would be no need for price suggestions on them. the USD price is irrelevant in the metal market.

let the proof speak for itself. don't suggest a flat price because it's 'easier' or makes it 'more like a dollar'. suggest a price because it is more accurate.

Oh look, yes I definitely made the argument that keys should be 6 refined because it's "easier" than 5.88-6, and definitely didn't take an 8 hour sample size to show that an overwhelming majority of keys are selling/being bought for 6 keys right now. Your comment was both subjective and irrelevant, because even commodities like gold have a flat price at any given time, not a range.

And in my opinion, there should be no need for price suggestions on keys, what would be wrong with a flat metal exchange rate? Does anyone really think the market needs to dictate what the metal price should be on keys in the same "suggestion" format as hats and miscs, items purchased and priced WITH the currency item that we're pricing? And the USD price shouldn't be irrelevant, considering cash trades are such a vital part of the market in general. You can use bp.tf logic all you want, and I just used it to pass the suggestion, but that doesn't make it right.

I don't disagree with your suggestion, I think it's accurate. I was just pointing out how awful that one comment was.

from your previous suggestions, I'm familiar with your whole edgy persona and how you disagree with what you call "backpack.tf logic". the fact that you don't see any problem with just establishing an arbitrary static exchange rate shows how poorly you understand markets. there isn't anything inherently 'wrong' with a flat price, but when some people are willing to pay more than others and some sellers are willing to sell for less than others, it simply is not accurate. Unlike dollar bills, keys are not perfectly elastic goods. your opinion doesn't change that.

the relationship between keys and metal is not perfectly analogous to the relationship between dollars and cents. If you think that statement is subjective, you also have a poor understanding of what that word means.

lol edgy. Anyway, a flat price takes both of those factors into consideration. You literally say that there's nothing inherently wrong with establishing a flat exchange rate, and you make no argument for how that would negatively impact anyone or anything in any way. Please tell me how that would be detrimental to the market, facts would be nice, employ your vast knowledge of markets to enlighten me. Dollars and currency in general are perfectly elastic? And they're considered "goods"? News to me.

Nothing is perfectly analogous to anything, the statement "perfect analogy" is an oxymoron. I never even tried to argue that the relationship is the same. Clearly that statement is also subjective, my understanding of the market or of language doesn't change the fact that you employ baseless statements without evidence to attempt to discredit my logic. You have an opinion, cool, doesn't make it right, especially when you don't try to back it up in any way with logic or reasoning. I have an opinion that's different than yours and of bp.tf's policies on this subject in general, and sorry, your disagreement doesn't make it wrong.

"Dollars and currency in general are perfectly elastic? And they're considered 'goods'? News to me."

looks like I was correct, then. The dollar bill is used as the best example of a perfectly elastic good in just about all economics 101 courses. that means it is highly sensitive to price change. that means 0 people in the world are willing to pay 101 cents for a dollar and 0 people in the world are willing to sell their dollar for 99 cents. it has a perfectly static value in terms of a closed system's currency. Metal is currency. There is no risk involved in trading 9 scrap for 1 refined or trading 1 refined for 3 reclaimed. It is perfectly elastic. There is risk in trading metal for keys. You may trade your key for x metal, but had you waited a week, you could have gotten x+1. The value is not static because you cannot craft keys and so there is no bond between the two other than what buyers and sellers can agree on.

_____________________

"You literally say that there's nothing inherently wrong with establishing a flat exchange rate, and you make no argument for how that would negatively impact anyone or anything in any way."

I'm realizing now that maybe the issue is that you don't understand the purpose of this site? We don't dictate prices. We don't have the authority to say "keys are worth exactly X.xx refined and you should only buy/sell for this amount". The purpose of this site is to document what the free market equilibrium is currently at. If it is both completely within the realm of probability to constantly buy keys at x-1 and sell them at x+1, then keys are worth (x-1) to (x+1). If we were to set the price at x flat, it would simply be inaccurate. [note: this is a general statement, not an assessment of your suggestion]

_______________________

" I never even tried to argue that the relationship is the same."

Then why say "a dollar isn't worth 90-110 cents for a reason" then? Don't just start flip-flopping to try to save face.

____________________

"my understanding of the market or of language doesn't change the fact that you employ baseless statements without evidence to attempt to discredit my logic."

Holy delusional. Just look at the previous comments. You literally started your sentences with "in my opinion" and I literally stuck to objective definitions of what a currency is. How can you even attempt to portray yourself as the pillar of logic and reason in this debate. Yes, I have my opinions, you have yours, and neither of them matter because free market values are based on the collective opinions of the entire market, not two individuals.

_____________________

I have no idea how you managed to stretch this out as long as it has gone. Starting with my original comment, the only thing that ever needed to be said was the definitions of currencies and commodities. Seeing as those are not up for debate, I'm going to let you have the last word, which I'm sure will be completely objective.

Thread too long, reply comment button off the screen for me. As I understand it, the word elasticity refers to a tangible measurement or trend, responsiveness, how an object will respond to other changing factors. Saying something is "perfectly elastic" without context 1 doesn't make sense and 2 doesn't apply to currency in most contexts, considering it's directly affected and proportional to the exchange rate of other currencies for example, which is directly affected by how each country is doing economically in a general sense. Currency is not immutable, and isn't a good, which is clearly not what you were trying to say. I'm assuming you're referring to the concept of price elasticity of demand, and in that context currency would be perfectly elastic- there is no demand for dollar bills at 101 cents, and that is a difference between keys and dollars.

But that is obvious. A dollar isn't a good. It's not something that you receive anything from, it's not something you seek out for any sort of purpose other than convenience, same for every other denomination. A dollar's value is static because by definition it is 100 cents, and is set in stone by laws and institutions. No one "sells" dollars for 100 cents just like no one "sells" keys for refined. It should serve as an exchange. This economy uses keys and refined the exact same way from a $ standpoint and from a metal market standpoint, and any fluctuation is dictated to the market by this site would be fine if in turn it wasn't manipulated in a lot of negatively impactful ways that aren't actually dictated by the market. For example, if keys are selling at a high rate for 6 refined and the suggestion in place now stayed, do you think people would ever set a norm at 6.11? Would people then in turn start buying/selling in droves at 6.22 and would the price keep climbing? Would people stop selling at 5.88 and 6 refined simply because of a current market trend? Or would an influx of 6.11 sellers taper off back to 6 ref sellers as people stopped being able to sell at that price, and more and more started coming on the market at a reasonable price that people would pay. If every trend that manifested itself wasn't rushed onto bp.tf as a price suggestion, then keys would probably (IN MY OPINION, yes, I use my opinion, and don't try to disguise what I really think as objective musings that are virtually useless to any civil discourse and carry very little weight) be chilling at 4 ref right now, and the economy would be the exact same.

It is "within the realm of probability" to buy keys at 5.88 and sell them for 6 refined. It's even possible to get 6.11. This is obviously shown by key re-sellers. Based on your statement, this suggestion is inaccurate. Why don't you go re-make a 5.88-6.11 suggestion?

My statement was admitted in the suggestion to be over-simplified. The relationship between dollars and cents and keys and refined is not obviously "perfectly ambiguous", but the statement does carry weight, in that keys and refined are the dollars and cents of this economy in a lot of ways. I never tried to argue that the relationship was the exact same, only similar and relatable.

Your objective definitions aren't even objective. You tried to argue that commodities and currency are 2 mutually exclusive things, and you tried to argue that, in a general sense, currency is "perfectly elastic"? Other than from a price elasticity of demand standpoint, that makes no sense. Overall, I'm clearly not trying to say "lul bp.tf just lower the # it says on ur site to 4 ref bcuz then econmy fixed 10/10". I'm saying a fixed exchange rate at 6 ref would be beneficial and productive. I'm saying there's been absolutely no need for keys to have been inflated to this extent, and there is no need for them to be inflated any further, regardless of suggestion logic and "accuracy". This site doesn't necessarily just show the market equilibrium, it dictates it, whether it has the authority to or not.

That's enough; both of you take it to the forums

months ago, i said keys for 6refined, the people call me crazy [cuz in that time the keys cost 4.77 refined]

Now its time to upvote, you have so much proof a little bit of time!

Sad but true upvote.

Awesome proof, good enough for an upvote from me

I agree with the suggestion, but Refined =/= Cents and Keys =/= Dollars. You can't compare the items.

Dollars and Cents are from the same currency, Keys and Ref come from two different places and are simply not comparable since they are not from the exact same currency. They are different items like Euros and Dollars.

I've still been getting buys at 5.88 or lower. Here are my two most recent ones as well as the trade I have on outpost.

http://tinypic.com/r/334j6vq/5

http://tinypic.com/r/2dkxxrd/5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14453603

I disagree with your suggestion. 5.88 and even 5.77 refined should still be represented in the range. It's possible and more common than you make it out to be.

Question: Why is my valid counter proof being instantly disliked? Who did I offend?

Anybody who expresses any opinion against making the key price a solid number is instantly disliked into oblivion. This bandwangon has no breaks apparently. I hope the moderators see this and use a little discretion when making their final decision.

I agree with you 100%. There are so many key trades alone in servers that are lower than 6 ref and sell all the time.

Thanks for the screens, as you can see everyone is getting downboated at this point lol, both sides of the "bandwagon". Unfortunately you need to prove this statement, the burden of proof is on you, and while I respect your opinion, a couple key sales below 6 in the current range don't cut it. Same with somewhere, screens would at least be more helpful than a broad statement with no evidence behind it, I haven't seen any sales below 6 on trade servers personally for the past few days, but feel free to post as much counter proof as you have- it's not being ignored by any means.

I have to say that it`s great that someone has the balls to make a suggestion with no range!!!

range is one of the things that make keys rise!

Upvote from me.

I, too, think that keys should remain at a solid price and 6 refined seems high enough. I am so glad that someone finally made a suggestion to keep it flat. If this is excepted but someone tries to change it, I suggest we inform them that the price cant be changed.

Please excuse me if I am not talking about the correct topic, I am new to this :)

I don't think I've ever seen a better key suggestion. Upgoat.

I like how you gave trades that were selling for 6.11 but changed to 6 to show that a better price would be just 6 flat.

You, sir, are the shining hope of keys stabilizing at 6 ref.

+1 to that. 6 is definitely the more prominent but the vote difference is so large now, I can't tell if it's too late or not, even if the proof is 100x better :S

Hope it really stabilizes, I'm already expecting for someone in the future try to justify a 6-6.11 range using the ones selling for 0.11 over the price range.

Expected this to come.

I approve, will close mine.

Pyroman approves.

http://puu.sh/4wEDe.png http://puu.sh/4wECy.png if it helps

http://puu.sh/4xvLC.png

http://puu.sh/4xvMh.png

http://puu.sh/4xvOn.png

http://puu.sh/4xxsf.png

bought 6 more keys, all at 6 ref

Appreciate the supplemental proof, screens always the best

Support this one fully. 6.11 makes no sense, almost no successful sellers.

Hate to say it, but .. today I listed one at 5,88 and had 4 buyers in like 30 secs .. => 5,88 Quicksell.

Btw keys haven't been flat price since long long time. But it's more easy that way.

in the good old days when keys were 2.33 ref selling a key for 2.22 ref was nearly instant as well

Here I have to agree. 5.88 is a quicksell by now, 6 ref flat seems a fair suggestion.

Upvote

It's a catch-22. If we update it, the price goes up. If we don't update it, not only will people trust the site less, but they'll know we refuse to raise the price so people will just jack the price up higher. You can't win with keys! The only way to make them go down again is to stop this flow of metal or wait until they become so ridiculously high people will decide this is stupid and buy for less.

EDIT: I upvoted, though.

No, it's a merrycatch 22 =P

http://puu.sh/4wHHd.png if it helps :P 13 keyz for 6 ref ea

mor help :p

http://puu.sh/4xHrG.png 6 raf

http://puu.sh/4xHso.png 6 raf

note: i went to buyers' side for keys to sell them

and some more buyers for 6 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14548546

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14306829

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14572688

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14571449

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14474870

Yeee mor screens, thanks mate

A flat rate is just fine, I'm simply waiting until the value of the key passes actual Mann Co. Store $2.49 price. :P

It cant.

yet many of the MVM duty tickets have been selling for 10-15% more than the Mann Co. store price of .99 cents. The bubble has to be some where and I think its just over 6 refined.

If its more then mann co store its only because of taxes and conversions from other countries.

Must... Not.... Upvote... Gahhhh! Too much proof!

I was buying at 6 ref (bought 3 keys) and it took a while to buy them all. Upvote from me.

Lol, it's time to moneymake. Buy keys for 1.60, sell them for 6 ref each. And sell those ref for 0.30 each and get a 0.20 cents profit each key >:D

If you do this with 50 keys you make 10 dollar :o

People selling for $1.60 aren't accessible to most people lol, that's a returning customer/huge rep price, not to mention that right now ref is a relative bitch to sell pp. Keys are averaging out $1.75 pp to most. This is an argument for ref and keys to be directly price related, and not skewed by the market, something that I agree with but isn't at all based on the bp.tf model of "proof". Not to mention paypal fees lol, the valve tax of rwt. Why the buy low sell high inflate price because everyone's doing it method doesn't work too well.

Eh bro, just wait untill keys hit 12 ref, then it'll be easy, haha.

keys are stabilizing... Maybe one day, but I suspect this round of inflation will be coming to a close in the relatively near future.

keys for $1.60? WHERE?!! All I see are keys going for $2.41 minimum at the community market...

Don't tell me you only buy your keys from the comm market :/ they are a lot cheaper elsewhere

You also can't sell stuff on the marketplace, then buy keys on the marketplace anywhere else.

Lol community market.

its enough proof for me. upvote

Whether you have a range or not, you'll still have people buying for less than bp.tf and selling at bp.tf or higher, bp.tf is mostly a price guide (except for keys), not a price maker.

But it feels like this is the only suggestion I'm ok with, although I did pledge to myself that I would never buy a key for 6 ref. (But supplementing a key with 6 ref during an item trade is fine with me as I'm not actually buying keys.)

Anywho, upvote! (#InB4Dislikes)

Bwahaha, this is such an easy upvote.

Best proof i've seen in a lot of time. Upboat.

this is the best accurate price in the last 9 months

I know it won't, but wouldn't it be nice if the price just stuck here for a little while? (Sir)UpGoat anyways.

I love you. this might actually make the s***s on outpost stop buying and selling keys for profit... because keys aren't for reselling like craft hats. they're a CURRENCY. Not a ressell item. "a dollar isn't worth 90-110 cents for a reason"

Selling, sold, key shop. And where are the unsuccessful buyers @ 5.88? I saw 3 people yesterday selling 5.88 in the classfield.

Key shops. They buying @ 5.88. They bought some keys. You say 5.88 is impossible. Suree.

"I saw"

"Unsuccessful"

"*Classified"

"Key shops"

Please look over these words

There are plenty of buyers at 6. Overrides the need for unsuccessful 5.88 buyers. You can look through op and find people who have bought some for 5.88, quickbuy proof doesn't mean anything, especially if it's in the range now, and people are skipping over the low end and buying in bulk for the high end. Needs a bump. We need to eliminate ranges from currency if possible, the same trends don't typically apply, and a NEED for a price change will be a lot more clear and easy to prove if the prices are set in stone. If this same trend manifests itself in the next week, if 5.88 sales continue to dwarf 6.11 sales despite a new 6 key price, thennn we can make an argument for stopping the inflation of keys, and potentially starting a plateau or even a downward trend.

I don't think anyone said 5.88 is impossible.

That would be silly to say...5.88 is less than 2% different than 6 refined, so of course it's going to occur.

I think the assertion being made is that 5.88 is *much less common* than 6 flat.

wait what? you are including people buying for 5.88 and such in your proof?

you just cornered yourself into proving that 5.88 isnt needed out of the range

DownBoat

More proof that isn't just outpost surfing (we could fill up this whole page with 6 ref sales, we all know that doesn't constitute good proof if it's unnecessary/ redundant), they're even moving at 6 on trade servers in my experience. http://imgur.com/a/dnwEz 2 6 key buyers, 2 6 key sellers on same server, can see some were bought @ 6 as well as people looking to buy at 6. Wasn't looking for this, just popped up multiple times on the server, people trying to buy for 5.88 on mic were unsuccessful

Don't use green font, it doesn't contrast the voting section's background and makes it hard to read

He has special eyes.

upvote, at least you didn't have like 238 like the one guy who suggested a price once.

Yes...because obviously the amount of keys (one of the most highly traded items in TF2) someone owns affects the legitimacy of his or her suggestion regardless of numerous relevant links that you, most likely, never bothered to click on.

Actually, I have 335 keys now. I was trading while you were complaining.

first of all I wasn't complaining I was stating the obvious and I don't care how many keys you have I was just amazed at the sheer quantity you had. you didn't have to dislike my comment.

It's sort of sad to see this happening, but there really is no denying it.

Buying anything from the Mann Co. store is not a good idea at all unless it's during a sale, most of the time it'd be a loss.

Keys are pretty much the only thing to never have gone on sale though :P

I agree it should be a flat price, nothing pisses me off more when people advertise they are "buying keys for 5.88, selling keys 6 ref FIRM" in the same trades -__-"

6 ref is a reasonable price in this economy and with $ price of keys rising it makes sense

And some people actually didn't believe me when I said it would go to 6 ref.

I'd be surprised if it goes any higher to be honest.

Upvote from me.

Erhm mer gawd you have 6 of em upboot anyways :P

Not anymore lol, bought them to donate to the server :P

keys stabilizing? never thought that would happen again.

This proof be so solid. Upboat. Also its immenesly hard to find sellers at 5.88. I am OVERJOYED to find sellers at that range. And I agree. One single range from now on...(Hopefully)

i think u had lots and lots of time to making this suggestion easy upvote

congragulation i think is the biggest wall of proof i've seen in bp.tf

Now, for the sake of our not-so-mathematical brains, can we keep it at 6 ref flat? Pleeeeeease? Would be so annoying if someone came here to suggest 6-6.11 just to give a "correct price", prices are NOT set in stone. Let the keys stay now, they have done their job. If you want to crash a currency, you can start dropping Bill's to 1 key and Buds to 8. Agreement? Great, thanks. Peace out.

(Upvote)

That (fixing it at six and not allowing for a future change) would be manipulation.

Yeah...but every suggestion here is manipulation, since outlier keys, sold for a scrap above the range imemdiately is proof that it should rise. I didn't say we shouldn't allow future changes but running to make a suggestion after selling a few at 6.11 is pathetic, especailly when you regularly buy them for 5.88, claiming that "5.88 is a quicksell" but 6.11 isn't an outlier.

yup sold one last week up for this price up vote.

Eh, I feel like this price works well. Nice work. Upvote.

God damnit... This proof! It's too much! I.. Can't... Downvote!

GAH! UPVOTE.

Not quite convinced, I still see a fair amount of people sell for 5.88 on trade servers,

I'm going to have to downvote.

Of course people's favorite excuses for keys. "I saw people selling less in trade servers"

If you actually want keys to go down, take the time to find counter proof.

All this does is justify the current range. I would be disappointed if this passes, but the last suggestion did when the price was actually going DOWN for about a week, so I wouldn't be surprised.

People usually go to trade servers if they want to sell keys for 5,88 since it's faster than opening a new trade page in OP/Bazaar :-P Saying that not only from my experience.

oh god, its gona raise again.... damn Well the proof cant get much better upvote

You have 6 keys, so you're trying to boost your inventory. Downvoted. -repped. Reported as scammer. Alerted government about you. Informed Al Queada. Discussed with Nasa. Spoken to Santa about you, welcome to the naughty list.

At first I thought you were serious lol.

Haloween is coming and new keys too.... Will the standard Mann co. key stabilize at 6 ref ?

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/stopkeysfromriseing#announcements/detail/1586681398470696767

Oh boy. They're angry.

"Owns 6"

Downvote

Disliked your comment because I have no sense of sarcasm

i hate key inflayion but that proof is not able to be denied

I keep warning you for spamming coments. Please take a closer look at the site rules before making further comments; http://backpack.tf/vote?showrules=1

well I like to give my opinion to believe in this facade of the "community-voted" price guide and that my opinion is really being considered, mods can approve suggestion with 30% of votes but we can't argue on these suggestions of why we are against/agreeing with the suggestion because it will be considered "spam"? BTW that guy was mean so he deserved the warning IMO.

You are welcome to provide reasonable, relevant feedback in an objective, measured way. Insulting the mods, suggester, or other users, or just saying "bad proof downvote" does not add anything to the discussion and wastes everyone's time.

what a suggestion, mark

As much as I hate key prices going up I have to upvote for the solid proof I'm just going to blame clever pun and be on :3

Upvote, with the current ref prices and buds now being 20-21 keys this now fits! And solid proof!

economically, it makes sense, as the economy """"recovers"""""" from the 2007 recession. Theoretically, the prices should go up as the dollar goes down. And vice versa as the dollar and euro drop compared to the Asian markets. Well said 6 ref.

bought 5 in the past day at 5.88

http://gyazo.com/b59bc3d2099ad40f9e9e44316317c0ff

http://gyazo.com/4c389bd74bdb06d107dc081721853e6d

Thanks for the screens but http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14526741 . Quickbuy/keyshop/reseller proof isn't exactly the best. Do you have any screens for that sale at 6 or 6.11 on that trade as well?

i tried to start a shop, but no one would buy or sell, so no

except that one guy tho

Fair enough

Say hi to 6 ref folks. I upvoted.

I can still buy them easily from the classfieds and trade servers for less than 6 refined. Unfortunately this comment won't get noticed and keys will continue to go up

It's that your comment won't get noticed, it's that it doesn't mean very much because you aren't proving it with screenshots, and even if it did you do not represent the market all by yourself

If you attempt to sell a key for 5.88 anywhere, you'll be sold out in seconds. Plus this wall of proof, upvote from me.

Buyers @ 6ref are acquiring the keys very fast

Despite i've been buying keys for 5.88 in the last 2/3 days with a decent success (and i have 7/8 screens ready if necessary), i think this is the most accurate price right now. Like the moderators said a lot of times, there will be always trades under and above the range, and I was lucky to find some under the range. People that sold me the keys probably were too lazy to find other traders willing to pay 6 ref, and most of the times those sellers were newbie (in the good way of the term, that is people at their first trades). It's getting harder day by day to buy keys for 5.88 and i started looking for 6 ref sellers. So Upvote for me, the trend is clear and it's very childish deny it. And i'm not a key reseller.

Keys I bought:

http://puu.sh/4yayT (3 Keys - 18 ref)

http://puu.sh/4yaDA (1 Key - 6 ref)

Thanks for the screens, always appreciated

I had an add for my key at 6 ref within twenty seconds. Upvote.

"This item has received enough positive votes"

nuff said

This suggestion has received enough positive votes. Wow. Congratulations, man, you're the first one to do that on a suggestionvrising the keys' price. You're a legend.

Sold several at 6 ref. Will provide some screenies later

This needs to happen. Where would keys go if they kept rising? Accumulating dropped weapons and saving up for keys wouldn't be remotely feasible if they were, say, 10 ref. It's hard enough as it is at 6.

You just answered your own question. Metal is free, you play you get where as keys are only obtainable viz steam for 2.5USD. it isnt keys going up or down, it's metal losing it's valuve because of the massive increase in user base while keys are still 2.5$

That argumet assumes the number of keys remains stationary which I'm pretty sure it hasn't

As in the number of metal compared to keys is extremely high. Any player has metal and gets a rec per week or more if they get a lucky drop.

I love your analogy of a dollar not being worth 90 to 110 cents. Unfortunately in this situation, a refined metal is roughly .33 cents while a key is $1.98. If a ref is .33 cents and 9 scrap go into it, a scrap is .036 rounded to 4 cents. That would mean this 5.88 to 6 spread is equal to $1.94 to $1.98.

Ignoring the fact that the first paragraph is making it sound a lot worse than it is, most of your links to people trying to sell at 6 ref have very few views despite being up for days. Even your mass buying at 6 ref links state that they've been purchasing for under 6 ref on occasion. I can also personally state that I had an ad selling keys at 6 ref which sat for a week and only received 10 views.

With that said, I think you've proven the current value. 6 ref is the high point while people drop to 5.88 to get the metal quicker.

Agreed. Keys are worth too much... And I have 2 so its not like im trying to get a good price for them either

This is probably the first time a key suggestion rising key prices has too many upvotes. Now that I say that, mods will close XP

Upvote.

Bought quite a few at 6.

http://i.imgur.com/ybL1947.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/X8YKyeD.jpg

Bought around 5 more at 6.

Thanks for the screens mate

-3 score :D People sure do hate proof.

:P I should probably be liking productive comments to counteract this, but I think it's kind of funny

Keys started rising when the community market was introduced which meant that noone from that point was going to buy keys from the mann co store maybe only people who are not premium but want to be that meant while metal was still produced by idlers and other players playing, there was more and more metal but no more keys since the ones on the community market were just "cykling" so no more keys were made but metal was still being made mainly by idlers. Now that "idling" is stopped by the fact that you have to confirm every drop you get, keys should not be rising SO MUCH but still they will get more valuable as opposed to metal, so now after the update having a no range price is in my opinion good but i do expect keys to rise but not so much like before so UPVOTE

I sell my keys for 5.77...

BUT 5.77 IZ QUICKSELL DURP

<333 I BUY ALL YOUR KEYZ 4 5.88 EECH

HE DISLIKED MY COMMENTS. BAN HIM ALREADY

http://www.tf2outpost.com/user/76561198023126780

http://bazaar.tf/profiles/76561198023126780

http://tf2tp.com/profile.php?profile=76561198023126780

http://backpack.tf/u/76561198023126780

Where?

Nearly every comment rating on this suggestion is in negative values xD

Yeah idk, literally every comment was positive before, got hit hard lol. No one is flaming either, just downvoting everything. You know it's bad when I have to flame my own suggestion to get any real reaction, I honestly don't approve of the mod warning thing going on personally, if people disagree at least let them state it in the comments instead of in the dislikes, can at least be credited/disproven that way

I respect you, cleverpun. All of the shit that you put up with, and still sticking to it. I know that people don't like you thinking that backpack is raising prices, just because they can. I respect you for what you do. <3

Careful, don't get your nose stuck up there.

It's perfectly fine with me. I'm just saying I wouldn't have the ability to put up with so much shit. When all is said and done, it is just a game. And honestly, I could care less about what you guys think of me, whether you respect my opinions or not. In fact, if everyone that may have liked my comments, could just go ahead and dislike them, I'd appreciate it.

Truth be told, I can't tell if the positive score is sarcasm or not. I'm just gonna go ahead and go the other direction now.

What are we waiting for, dear mods? The proof is sufficient, the upvote button is unusable due to being full of votes, and there's no counterproof. We all know this is gonna pass.

this price should be stable. in tf2, keys always valuable so it cant be cheaper

while i hate keys going up so much. to much proof; upvote from me.

Except there isn't anything wrong with the economy? There's a reason they're going up, and it's because of the thousands and thousands of people that used to idle and still do. There's constantly new metal being produced for free, and the most commonly desired item is the key, because it's a high value item that can't be found, and is also a currency commonly used for unusuals. Everything balances out here. If these keys didn't rise, there'd be a shortage of keys with people buying for cheap, unboxing for cheap, and selling unusuals for prices nobody could meet because keys would be being used much too fast.

i buy a ridiculous amount of them for 5.88, so much that i can't keep up in metal.

downvote.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/13644697 screens would be helpful, you have plenty of metal in your bp currently, and key shop proof is very bad proof to me personally, considering you buy them at 5.88 just to turn around and make a quick scrap or 2.

that would be because i just sold 3 off. i wasn't aware this vote was up until right now so i'll start taking screens today. my point being that i've had to turn away many customers at 5.88 because i ran out of metal.

you can take screens right now mate, even the screens from you selling them so that you're at least being transparent, would be appreciated. Obviously you're able to turn around and sell them for 6 ref so I suppose any you've bought at 5.88 we could probably assume you turned around and sold for 6, so just the 5.88 would be good.

You currently have 26 refined, 4 reclaimed and 7 scrap metal. You also have no keys. If you really did run out of metal then it wasn't exactly recent. Also, three isn't a ridiculous amount at all, especially since we don't know when this could've happened. You should provide some evidence.

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2trade/comments/1mzkiz/h_300_refined_w_50_keys_at_6_ref_each/

mass buying 50 keys @ 6 ref each

http://imgur.com/d0SpypW

http://imgur.com/pQKxHIx

http://imgur.com/TNi4Uk5

http://imgur.com/U9llIiq

http://imgur.com/LCFdR9i

http://imgur.com/JD6GSjT

http://imgur.com/KuzHeI3

imgur.com/ZPQuMQa

http://imgur.com/SBJFWKw

http://imgur.com/rtlCnfh

http://imgur.com/Je5U9Mx

These are about 87 keys there bought in 1.5 days. I have more but I reckon the shown proof in this suggestion ( comments + base ) is more then enough.

If this seriously dosent get passed I'm starting my own site...