Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 7.77–8 ref

I would like to implore to community to please stay on topic regarding the suggestion. What is relevant here are; personal experiences on the key trades, additional proof, issues with the provided proof, counterproof against suggested range, and thoughts on what range is most appropriate based on these factors. Community opinion on these matters is extremely important and off-topic matters distract from them severely.

In order to try to keep discussion on-topic, spam and unnecessary off-topic discussion (including discussion of the broader economy) will be hidden. Abuse and rudeness will not be tolerated. For discussions on the economy and other tangential topics, we recommend the forums; http://forums.backpack.tf/

For discussion on keys in regards to the impact on the economy, this topic in particular is recommended; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6090-the-one-and-only-key-price-topic/

For concerns about how the site is treating comments in key suggestions, feel free to start a topic in the following forum; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/forum/20-general-website-discussions/

These rules and guidelines apply to all key suggestions, past and present. In order to reduce potential confusion, the mod team is posting this summary in order to help bring attention to—and remind users of—these policies.

We invite you to voice your opinions in the forums using the links I provided. But suggestions are not the place to make opinionated comments. They are designed to evaluate the proof.

And if you feel bp.tf and scrap.tf are inaccurate, I invite you to use other sources to check prices on keys:

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - currently 8.02

http://www.trade.tf/price/5021/6/None - 7.88-8

If anything bp.tf always seems to be behind in its valuation of keys.

Huh, now they're going down. Right?

What would lead you to that conclusion?

go away please

That cooldown feels like it went by extremely quickly.

Anyways, I feel like 7.77 ref is basically a quicksell. Before the last suggestion was accepted, I had listed a key for 7.77 ref and I got three adds within minutes (no they weren't phishing bots). After the suggestion, it's taken me 10 minutes maximum to sell any amount of keys for 7.77.

I can't really get exact proof of this but just a thing to think about.

so.. is that good or bad?

Well I'm saying that it probably shouldn't be in the range, considering how fast it goes. There's so many buyers above 7.77 too, so why bother including it if people will definitely buy for more.

Suggesting 8 flat is stupid as people are willing to sell at 7.77 (As you said, you are selling them at 7.77 not at 8), that's why it is in the range

Well yeah I know that. I was thinking 7.88-8 ref would be best right now.

Also I was selling for 7.77 because I wanted metal at that moment, and I got it very soon after I needed it. 7.77 just goes too quickly.

There are few sellers at 7.77, and those that are there sell almost instantaneously.

I get what you are saying, however - 7.77 is probably the most common traded buying prices. That's why I'm kinda keeping it as a low end, I'd like to see this suggestion more be used as a 7.88 suggestion as it's the mid price for 7.77-8.00, thanks for your input.

how long did it take for this suggestion?

This time fairly quick, roughly 30mins.

Alright I feel ya

~~Owns one, downvote.~~ Upvote!

Upvote, even takes a while to buy for 7.77

(Valve do smth with refs pls)

My key bot is struggling buying for 7.88. I feel like 7.77 is sort of a quicksell.

glad 7.77 is in range, it;s quite easy to buy for 7.77

Oh really? I've had my trade up for 8 ref and get hardly any adds. Not easy to buy for 7.77.

Funny, I haven't had any trouble buying for 7.77. Had someone wanting to sell 8 keys the other day. yeah it's far from hard.

If what you say is true, then please, sell me your keys for 8 ref each. I'd be glad to buy them. :)

What makes you think I'm selling them for 8 refined?

Thought they were easily bought for 7.77? go buy 10 quickly and sell them to me for 8 ref. Come on, You get em fast right?

Here, I'll prove it.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19572320#latest - Had some adds for 7.77 (me)

http://i.imgur.com/zyEW1YN.png - 2 keys

http://i.imgur.com/sb5Si6a.png - 1 Key

http://i.imgur.com/DtjNuWF.png - 3 Keys

http://i.imgur.com/KBmZbK2.png - 1 Key

http://i.imgur.com/MruSwRC.png - 1 Key

http://i.imgur.com/DS3RfJr.png - 1 Key

Like I said, not very hard.

http://i.imgur.com/xujp3W6.png - 2 Keys

http://i.imgur.com/JyzrAVi.png - 5 Keys

There's much more where that came from, keep being chirpy if you want more ;)

I'm actually surprised that there's no problem with buying keys for 7.77 ref. There are many players that buy them for higher prices.

There are any buying higher, I guess it's just a test of patience

Just saying since you buy them so cheap, sell them to me! Easy profit mang! Never seen a trader start getting all angry over a profit opportunity.

Like I said, No. they were bought to get rid of over 150 refined, and now that I've done that I'm keeping them for other things.

#RektKid

You didn't "rek" anyone. You simply proved my point. If they were that easy to get, then you could simply sell them to be and earn almost a rec in profit each. But as you said, you don't want profit and simply want to convert your metal to keys #saidnotraderever

Because every trader totally wants 200+ ref hogging all that space in their backpack.

Regardless if he decides to sell to you or not he bought them for 7.77 ref, if he chooses to sell to you or not proves nothing. Also he isnt profiting anything keys are always ~1.7-1.8$ only thing changing if he sells to you is that amount of space that same $ value would take up in his backpack.

It isn't all about profit, I don't want to contribute to the "Rize of teh kheyz" so I buy them 7.77 and when I do sell them I do them to a bot or sell them for 7.77/whatever the key price is

The reason I "simply want to convert" all my metal to keys is because having over 200 refined in your backpack and 10 keys isn't good when a good offer comes your way, and I'd rather convert now than convert them in the next few months when keys are 10 refined

@Derpeh, thank's man, you took the words right out of my mouth<3

Not every person who buys keys wants them for trading, get that through your skull.

First time I've met someone who doesn't want profit.

I love profit, I;m a profit whore(i quickbuy like a maniac) but with keys I can't bring myself too it</3

http://i.imgur.com/VE4Cj1Y.png - 7.66 not hard either (-forever an outlier :/ )

Sell me them then. :)

Should be 7.88-8.11.

With only a single buyer for 8.11... yeah, I guess that makes sense.

If there are many buyers at a certain price point, the item's true value likely lies somewhere above what such buyers buy for.

Could you please stop getting out of the point of this suggetion?, Teemo or Etna.

Starting that you're a banned alt account in Outpost and with a pending report in Sr+.

Not out of point. For two days now, I've been unable to buy a single key for 8 ref. You talk about going off topic, yet you bring up me being banned on websites - uh, hypocrite much? FYI, I have a caution on Sr because someone scammed me, and I was banned from outpost for giving a rager -rep. Good job getting off topic and preaching for people not to go off topic. Brilliant logic.

Probably because you're using bazaar lol

Wait, if keys are updated to this price, then won't people sell for higher? And then that will count as proof... And then we're here yet again? I don't understand this world! D:

Its not the sellers, its the successful buyers and solds.

Ah I see, ok :T

Even if this suggestion is not accepted the proof shows that many people are buying for 8 refs already even with bp showing 7.66 ref.

It's a cycle of inflation. People think that buying keys will be a good investment, so they buy it. Even if it's expensive. So backpack.tf is like "Well Shit! He bought it really expensive! We should make the price higher!" And then people buy it for even higher and higher, and etc. Keys are expanding too fast however, and everything else, such as buds and refined metals are going down...

I do believe that keys are more expensive than they used to be. There's no going back to 2.33. I just feel like people sort of rush to rise the prices of keys ya know?

It's like 3x the price now. It's just how tf2 works. Now all Gabe has to do is watch people buy his keys and them selling it for refined metals.

Well, to be honest, valve doesn't care about the price of keys here. They just worry about real currency for every key someone buys, as they should, it's their job. It's just that people are so hooked on getting profit that they can't see they're causing the inflation.

I help cause the inflation.

I'm sure we all did at some point ;-;

As websites such as Shopbot.tf grow larger, (Which is better compared to scrap.tf in terms of miscs), the humans will soon be dominated by a bot/website controlled economy... Oh wait, Backpack.tf

Ok, I'm running out of quips now, shall we just say that we should stop while we are ahead?

quips? What be a quip. Also, accept my friend request. Or are you too cool for me?

Normally I would be, but I'm feeling nice today. You may pass.

Except that keys never actually increase in true value, ref just decreases. Anyone intending to turn a profit by investing in keys is sorely mistaken.

Upvote, alot of buyers, in and out of servers.

agree keys should add price since ref is so easy to get

http://puu.sh/8O9ry.png

http://puu.sh/8O9rb.png

UPVOTE

screenshot http://i.imgur.com/0npV9XK.jpg

in trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19815139

d0, admins, I know the forums need these kind of shit, but we need a longer cooldown!

I see bots selling at 8.22 already and the "official" price is still 7.66-7.77. I liked it when we had the random break at 7 ref but this is ridiculous, the resellers are moving faster than the market and guess what?! The only people buying keys are the resellers who then sell them for more. I would like to suggest an absolute ban on all bots as proof in key suggestions and some system where people see what the keys are being bought for. If it is a clear reseller, it shouldn't be valid proof. #TF2economyisFUCKED #Can'tUnbox

Go ahead and warn me I know I'm in the wrong.

bp reflects the current market regardless if it's a reseller or not, the fact is that there are multiple people buying for 8 refs, keeping the clearly incorrect price of 7.66 ref would misinform many players thinking that it's 7.66 making them inadvertently quick sell which isnt the point of this site.

Please learn that keys are 2.50 and metal is free, we reflect the current market if resellers are buying for a price higher than current price it means sellers are able to sell for a higher price.

... What is your point in that comment? A majority of people are buying to resell keys, that is just fact. Some may trade for items, or crab, or unbox, but most of the proof here is from resellers. So if you mean to tell me that the current price is wrong, I agree, but we need a cooldown because the hype of the resellers is what is killing the economy by inflation. Also I take issue with your comment "Please learn that keys are 2.50 and metal is free" Metal is not free, metal takes time to drop and to craft. Is the average drop rate 2 ref a month? If so it would take someone 4 months to buy a key at the moment from just metal drops. Keys are technically $1.80-$1.90 i believe at the moment because "paypal price" is what this site runs off. I am missing your point sir. What are you trying to convince me of?

The point im making is that they are buying for a higher price already, it doesnt matter what their intentions are, they are paying 8 ref and we can sell at 8 ref then the price should be 8 ref. Keeping the price at 7.66 is pointless evident in the fact that the current price on bp is still 7.66-7.77 yet many sales are happening at 8 ref, all it does is misinform players of the actual price of keys.

I never said I was downvoting, I said we needed a cooldown rule and new changes to the rules on the supply of proof in future. I wouldn't expect it this instant because I just suggested it. o_O If anyone knows about key prices 2014 it's someone like me who has bought and unboxed 194 keys just this year (all in game too). I just want a break at around 8 ref, and it would be great if people stopped selling to resellers too xD The fact of the matter is, these resellers are making it near impossible for me to unbox anymore ;_;

You should really post the very same thing in the forum in the General Website Discussion, nicely said. Tons and tons of people are agreeing with you hence the massive amount of likes.

Proofs looks good d0. ^_^

I never looked before but HOLY SHIT D0 YOU HAVE 750+. If that isn't dodgy then I worry about this economies near future. Unfortunately we can't 'say' it's market manipulation because he has the proof to back it up. Remember though every bit of bot or reseller proof up there (lets say 80% conservatively) is someone exactly like d0 with shitloads of keys. >_>

I can not believe that people have not caught on. It says he has 727 keys so i hope people see that this is just a way for him to get more bp value.

Keys are always 1.7-1.8$ paypal, it's been that price since months ago and it still is now, increasing the price in refine does nothing except that he pays more for keys in refine.

We get it; but aren't we talking about the price of keys in refined metal, not in USD? This current inflation would affect mostly those who don't buy keys either via PayPal or SCM, which would be bad for said people since they would have to pay more in terms of refined metals.

I was just replying to the people who automatically think because a trader owns a lot of keys they make a lot profit from keys increasing, their bp doesnt increase in $ value at all because it's $ price is the same if anything it's worse for them.

I for one would prefer a suggester with a good bp as it's a sign they know the prices of what they are pricing.

There are more uses to keys than selling for metal. Having 700+ keys is not necessarily a sign of manipulation, more likely an active high tier unusual trader. (it's around 40 buds in keys)

Hmm...interesting, proof looks good too, but i think we shouldn't get hasty with the price rises for keys, as so far its normally been 1 scrap price range, one solid price, and back to 1 scrap price range again with the key rises for the past few months, to suddenly give them a 2 scrap range seems out of the ordinary. Downvote, for now at least since 8 ref will be the price of these in probably June-July time..,

~~HOW MANY KEYS DO YOU NEED!?~~

Good proof upvote

Buying for 8.11 - http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19655861

His bot is buying for 8 not 8.11 atm.

The price was 8.11 when I checked. He must have changed it.

don't qoute me on this but bot's aren't valid...not sure....

And why are bots invalid as proof? It doesn't matter if it's a real person or a computer who buys at 8 Ref.

Ignore what I said up there, I was drunk at the time. Anyway, I feel the range is a bit too wide for me.

And an hour later you aren't drunk anymore?

I recover fast. Cuz Imma pro liek dat.

OWNS

727

...

Anyhow, good proof, upvoting.

Even 8 ref sells almost instantly now. upvote

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19820695#latest

After that, i had 5 trade offers in 20 seconds, and 3 more after i closed it. Even 8 is a quicksell. (Damn, this is escalating way too quick)

That moment when d0 owns more keys than the number of slots in your backpack.

Solid proof anyways, upvote

The current situation is a inflation on key currency, which seems to be caused by excessive amount of bots buying for high price, whereby if a normal user wish to compete and get their regular key as a exchange currency they need to buy with higher price, this is not a price they wish to buy for but forced to buy for in a way. Staying neutral.

Key is currency, which is appreciated through weird method, how ever it is used to open crates so I never understood it. Key increases as much as metals. If overall key market is looked up it has a large range. There will always be upper boundary buyers and lower boundary buyers from the equilibrium price.

"Key increases as much as metals" <- you mean the amount that exist right :?

The rate, which they exist will never be the same, however taken into account that amount of key and metals in the cycle will make it rather hard to judge. If only metal increases it's normal for key of price to go up. When amount of keys in the existence increases as well but much slower the price will still go up.

However the question is how many players have joined and started to play TF2, which caused both to shift. e.g. if both keys and metals shift the same amount to the same direction the key price shouldn't change. This indicates that at the time of idling I think that's what it was called there started the exponential increase in metals and more keys were bought from the store and used as currency instead of their original purpose/opening the crates.

[was just asking a question to clarify the poor grammar :u wasn't sure what you meant...]

I wasn't you weren't. Not just about grammar. However lets end this talk to here as it seems to going off topic. English is not my mother tongue

Should be 7.77-8.00ref

That's the price d0 is suggesting...

I honestly question the reasoning for leaving 7.77 in the range. I myself have had a hard time buying keys for 7.88 and sometimes resort to just buying them for 8 refined, yet I still have no idea how people manage to buy them so easily for 7.77. If I listed a key at 7.77, I would get like 20 adds in 5 seconds.

I would be more in favor of a 7.88-8 refined range, as 7.88 seems to still be happening as much as 8 refined. Then again, 7.77 and 8.11 happen as well, but not as much as 7.88 and 8. Since items may be sold for above and below bp.tf prices, I believe 7.88-8 would be a more proper range.

Solid proof. Upvote!

wow keys have risen since I last came here. Anyways its good proof. upvote

Keys are impossible to buy these days even for 8 ref upvote

7.77 seems quicksell-ish tho, sold one within a min

Aw shit, here we go again.... upvote

I think you should't count the bots, since, well....they aren't humans. Their owners can put the prize they like, just to gain more, let's wait some more time and get some more proof, downvote.

Bots are controlled by humans, no? All a bot is by trading terms is a script that speeds trading up by a few seconds.

Well, time to upvote.

Finally keys might be at a flat price, its troublesome that the price rises but welcome to tf2merica. Upvote

Whew, these bumps are flying past faster than two-hundred dollar, custom-tooled cartridges.

Proof looks nice, seen keys go for 8.11-2 more often than before. 7.77-7.88 still looks quite nicely fitting within sales. 8 as an upper boundary isn't too far-fetched either.

Upvote!

~~ouns 727 praic manipulashun~~

This looks good. Alot of traders including me are already claiming keys as 8 Refined so a range isn't too bad either.

Upvote from me.

Proof looks good, even if you do have 727 of them and the economy is terrible.

Upvote, because I honestly can't get any at 7.66 anymore.

buyers work too :P

Though this isn't "proof" per se, In my experience I've found that 7.66 sells instantly (sold 2). Solid proof from suggester, upgoat.

Now maybe, just maybe, key prices on backpack.tf will actually reflect the market price for, like, 2 days, rather than what it used to be a week ago.

Upvote.

I never even knew someone could have that many keys.

Proof is great, and d0 is a true contributor, not a price manipulator, upvote from me.

All the high end prices are clearly just profiting resellers, but it looks like solid proof. Oh well.

at this point, i thinks its better to buy them in mann co. store ._.

www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19645928

My trade, only ever bought one in all that time.

~~price manipulation~~ Proof is amazing! Upvote. All links are amazing. Hope this suggestion is accepted.

~~omg guise price manipulation he owns 700+~~ Nice proof.

did you really just copy meh

No, I always joke about price manipulation if people own the item they made a suggestion on.

you said it 2 minutes after I did.

If you Would check my vote history, you can see that I post something joking about price manipulation if the person owns one.

This is irrelevant to the suggestion.

lolz I know. Wait. Why are we fighting over nothing...

I buy a good amount for 7-7.33, but I use trade.tf and camp the tf2op key listings. Lol. Dat proof though. Upboat.

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19812053#latest[/url] Buying 5 at 7.8 each, unsuccessful for a day

That proof but he owns 727...

Some people prefer to have keys instead of buds. d0 is on eof those people. that and read what he said at the end.

Prices have got to go down, keys are endless. Why do they keep going up -_-

I say price should be 4.33

If you can find me 1 buyer and 1 seller at 4.33, I'll buy you some ice cream.

The hell you gonna get that ice cream from

Lots of proof, people are already selling them on backpack.tf lowest at 8 ref, you sir deserve my upvote.

unfortunately it doesn't matter what their opinions are, because the market for keys is obvious.

700+ keys with multiple trade bots posted as proof the absolute instant the price suggestion comes off cooldown.

NOTHING FISHY GOING ON HERE.

In all seriousness though, I genuinely do not think that bot trades should be allowed as proof, especially since scrap sites aren't allowed as proof either. They are both literally the same thing (automated trade bots), so there is a serious discrepancy there.

Well doesn't everyone have their own opionion?

well except for bots XD

i agree i sold a key for 7.77 in 3 minutes on outpost demands to high

What the TF2 GP thinks: "OMG keyz will b 25 ref in tw0 weekz! d0wnvOte 2 sav teh tf2 keyz * the econami!!!"

Honestly, t'll probably take 2-3 months for keys to hit even 9 ref... not that I hope so. With the rate these suggestions are being published at, you never now. I'm sure by now you can tell why I never post on key suggestions... I'd probably be warned every time. =X

Also, you [d0] have even more keys than Long218 at his highest, I believe. Talk about dedication.

I don't believe the number of unusuals being unboxed has ever changed.

Should exclude all the bot data

Not to mention if you try to buy @ 7.77 from someone a bot will generally post mere seconds after the post once its generated but thats from my experience in 2 situations I bet its common though

Bots are driving it up not the market

If only botting was ban-able ... sign