Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 8.22–8.33 ref

Thanks to all supporters, Moderators, Haters, Highballers, Lowballers, Gamers, The Community, Video Game Desingers, Video Game Developers, and Aliens obviously

My potato approves - upgrope

Who gave you the permission?

Permission for what?

Look at his name.

I don't care if he's the mighty potato, my potato is godly.

I don't care if you don't care I just thought you were wondering why he said that.

Horrible? It's a sign that the economy is growing. This is a good thing, also it is NOT keys rising, but refined declining in value.

Refined is only dropping in response to the ridiculous rate at which keys are rising (~ 1-2 scrap per week).

It also becomes tiresome reading through the seemingly infinite amount of "backpack.tf is manipulating prices" rants. All backpack.tf is doing is recording what keys are selling for. If anything, it's the masses fault for indulging the gluttons who demand an extra scrap or two, instead of spending an extra 10 seconds to find a key selling at the backpack.tf price.

Who do you think profits the most from keys raising in price?

I would like to think the people who are selling the keys for a slightly higher price than the backpack.tf price. I fail to see where you're going.

The people with the most keys benefit, meaning the richest. A lot of rich people are affiliated with this site.

So you're pretty much saying that because some of backpack.tf's affiliates are "rich", the entire site is manipulating key prices?

All I'm saying is that backpack.tf is a tool. It dictates price(everyone says it doesn't, but it does). The people in control of this "tool" have a lot of power in there hands. Without this "tool" keys would not be where they are currently; unless of course you believe this dynamic behavior is a precipitation of the "markets" only.

Yes, I do personally believe that key prices are reflected upon their market value.

To reiterate, all I was saying is that people have more control than they think they do over key prices. It's really not that hard to find a key for the backpack.tf price, it may just take an extra minute. Most people don't want to spend this extra time finding a key for the "fair price" and subsequently buy from trader or bots who demand an extra scrap or two.

Yes, 2 days ago, I felt like calculating the rise in price of keys. Since 5 months ago, it's been rising, on average, 1.05

scrap a week. It's definitely a tool, though many new traders with keys depend on bp.tf, and they try to make profit. Just an idea anyway, but it makes sense. It would probably be possible to decrease prices if the common sites, bacpack, scrap and trade tf changed their prices slowly. Maybe.

I think that economy bit killed all chances of people liking that comment. I'm not going to go into that rant about the obvious mudslide effect people are allowing, because nobody cares. They just want to update the price to what people are selling at. Unfortunately, that means when it's updated they will sell for higher and repeat.

nb4 end of line makes refined purchasable.

I remember when keys were 2.33 refined, but what does that have to do with anything? Refined is plummeting in value, and thus keys are rising in price. The cash market determines the metal price of keys, not necessarily the trading price of refined, as people will always sell higher.

Since over 1 hour passed during the time I made and posted this suggestion. Here are more recent ones :

Sales at 8.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20036045

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20035452

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20035290

Sales at 8.22 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20035197

Extra

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20035997 --> Sale at 4.00 ref. Generous person. :D

Turns out that 4.00 sale was of a Naughty 2013 Key. Whaddya know.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but you can edit your post until 1 hour has passed. It hasn't been 1 hour yet since you've posted this, at least at the time of me posting.

Really? Ah, didn't realize. xD

Yeah I know that, decided not to edit and will post below the above comment of mine from time to time. :P

Adding more

Sales at 8.00 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20040143

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20038969

Sales at 8.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20040417

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20038362

Sales at 8.22 ref[/u]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20040624

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20039831

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20038384

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041563 --> Selling bunch at 8.22 ref

Sales at 8.33 ref[/u]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041056

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041375

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20040179

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20039578

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20037762

Sales at 8.44 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041211 --> Looks like he wanted to sell for 8.33 but re-decided to sell for 8.44 due to "tons of adds"

Adding more ⁀⊙﹏☉⁀

Buyers at 8.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041521

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20018916

Buyers at 8.22 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19973353

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19632474

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20037243

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041009

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041306

Buyers at 8.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20018742

Buyers at 8.44 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20046648

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19716195 --> Bot

Sales at 8.00 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20047680

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20047622

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20043585

Sales at 8.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20048556

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20048517

Sales at 8.22 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20048163

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20046004

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20044562

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20043961

Sales at 8.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19622444 --> Selling at 8.33 ref (1 in stock)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20048085

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20045696

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20045558

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20043847

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20043311

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20042208

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20042205

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20042070

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20041699

http://www.trade.tf/trade/526108466

http://www.trade.tf/trade/526103179

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=10134568

Sales at 8.44 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20048024

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20045937

http://www.trade.tf/trade/526108472

Outlier sales

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20042842 --> Sold 3 at 7.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20045058 --> Sold 1 at 7.33 ref

there is proof, but you guy get that keys aren't rising, just all value of every thing else in tf2 in getting cheaper, right?

WHAT DID YOU SAY?!?!

Yes, adding more ⁀⊙﹏☉⁀

Sales at 8.00 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057529

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057561

Sales at 8.11 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057079 --> Sold 6

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20054794

http://bazaar.tf/trade/827343

Sales at 8.22 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20055321

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20050219

http://bazaar.tf/trade/827217

http://www.trade.tf/trade/526040873

http://www.trade.tf/trade/526000815

Sales at 8.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057263

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057610

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057263

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20056999

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20056051

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20054899

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20054220

http://www.trade.tf/trade/526053085

Sales at 8.44 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20055385

Outliers

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20055235 --> 7.88 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20057351 --> 7.00 ref

Buyers at 8.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20032529 -> closed

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19655861 -> out of metal

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20028871 -> Closed

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20029202 -> has bought like 3 pages of keys, out of metal

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20035673 -> closed

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/18386979 -> Out of metal

Im too lazy to check more, but the first 5 are all out of metal. 8.33 seems a bit too high to me :/

[Neutral for now]

Your comment does not make any sort of sense. What are you trying to say?

How does 8.33 ref seems high?

So you are saying trades should remain open and no one should run out of metal? The heck? I believe you are sleepy as hell. Please re-read what you just wrote. O.o

You're correct that im tired and rahter ill, but no worries

But those 8.33 buyers ran out of metal in less than a day,

So buying for 8.33 seems to high to me, but that could just be me :/

There is no problem to sell for 8.33, like me http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20033973 <-- u send this. On trade servers easy too.

I would like to remind the community to please stay on topic regarding the suggestion. What is relevant here are; personal experiences on the key trades, additional proof, issues with the provided proof, counterproof against suggested range, and thoughts on what range is most appropriate based on these factors. Community opinion on these matters is extremely important and off-topic matters distract from them severely.

In order to try to keep discussion on-topic, spam and unnecessary off-topic discussion (including discussion of the broader economy) will be hidden. Abuse and rudeness will not be tolerated. For discussions on the economy and other tangential topics, we recommend the forums; http://forums.backpack.tf/

For discussion on keys in regards to the impact on the economy, this topic in particular is recommended; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6090-the-one-and-only-key-price-topic/

For concerns about how the site is treating comments in key suggestions, feel free to start a topic in the following forum; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/forum/20-general-website-discussions/

These rules and guidelines apply to all key suggestions, past and present. In order to reduce potential confusion, the mod team is posting this summary in order to help bring attention to—and remind users of—these policies.

credits to cleverpun and polar bear

Seems right.

Even 8.22 sells fast :3

Upvote and all the best with this key suggestion!

This is never ever gonna stop raising is it? But the proof is there so I must upvote.

No one is holding a gun to your head, proof or not you have the right to ignore it!

Not when 98% of the "community" uses this site as a bible, making it "bp price or gtfo" in EVERY location. :X

Upvoted.

Also keep in mind people, many bots sell keys for 8.22-8.66, and they sell several each day.

Like it or not people, keys are going up, it's just a fact.

I would love to see some more 8.22-8.33 sales, just to support your range more, but I totally agree with this.

compared to other suggestions, this seems lacking. definitely should add more links.

I am not sure how is this lacky. I compared other suggestions and there are same amount of proof if not more. Also, went through all pages on Outpost, did a search again before posting the suggestion just to make sure. No worries though, I will add more proof from time to time. ^.^

This suggestion defiantly is not lacking proof.

I agree, this suggestion rebelliously is not lacking proof.

~~hurrinmaidaiskeeswer2.33durr~~

Looks good, even though some sales above 8.33 would be nice as well. Upvoting for now.

I am not suggesting price above 8.33. Range is 8.22 - 8.33

Above 8.33 ref sales are not required but I still provided. Feel free to check'em out. ^.^

Having a price of 8.22-8.33 means that the average sale should be around 8.27.. Asking for 8.33+ is rather weird.. If he had proof of 8.44 sales he probably would have changed the overall price to 8.33.. Great job on gathering proof!!!!!

I present to you, the only known counter-proof in existence! *confetti everywhere*

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19441262

Had someone waiting for 5 days now...

Love the proof price is right and lets see how this goes!

UPVOTE!! this dude!!

Great proof! I was wondering who was gonna suggest next for keys...

You have my upvote!

>Refined loses value due to a lot of disinterested buyers and major overstock in refined

>Refined drops in value

>Keys are forced to go up in ref price to compensate for the loss in value

>Blames the suggester and price

Good logic there buddy, see how that works out for ya in the real world.

Your reasoning for staying neutral is completely irrelevant. The point of voting is not for your opinions, but for accuracy.

Then wouldn't prices rise in items that run in ref rather than drop further? .-.

It wouldn't affect them as they are not currency. It affects keys due to it being direct base currency from ref. Keys are based off of ref and keys are the primary currency.

That doesn't sound like it makes a lot of sense but I guess I can try to understand. .-.

Because it does not directly affect items. Keys have extraordinary demand compared to items, and items tend to have a lot less demand. They would have to maintain plentiful demand in order to keep up in value.

You'd think with all the keys in circulation these days that they wouldn't increase in value. .-.

Still aren't increasing, only metal declining.

Well alright, that makes sense.

No sorry, I just can't accept that answer. It feels like I'm missing a piece of logic in this. I'm not sure what it is, but these answers really haven't been doing it for me. I know where you're coming from but I just don't know if all of what you're saying is fact. Sorry. ;-;

Thanks for the free vote ! oh wait... Thanks for the free vote anyway !

wow it is really rising fast

better get rid of my refs soon

gud proof i guess

unless you're selling your bp for cash, you wont be able to 'get rid' or your ref. EVERYTHING is calculated in ref

for example, investing in keys

hats, other things

Yes, weird huh? :P

Not sure how mine can be light when I went over all pages on Outpost buyers and sellers...And then did a recheck there again. :S

Mine is nowhere light. It "looks" light because I specifically always divide the buyer, sales, sellers and whatnot.

Also, I always add from time to time. No, need to worry about it. Just added more above. :P

Explain to me why this is bad.

I wish i wasn't up voting this considering how quickly the key price is inflating, but you do make a valid point with the explanations.

Here is some more proof, in case it hasn't been mentioned already;

Buying at 8.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19801126

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19305460

Selling at 8.55ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20024136

People should see keys as a stable price rather than a growing one as the dollar amount of a key has always been 2.50$ and always will be, refined however should be seen as unstable as more and more of it is being created faster and faster, so metal is losing value and so to compensate for this the key increasing in metal but not value.

Keys to traders are only about $1.90

Mann Co. store prices and trading prices rarely match.

I was trying to buy some keys this weekend and had "Watch listings" set on 8 ref... managed to get 4keys for 7,88ref and 2keys for 8 ref. I think I had about 40 notifications for keys that got sold while I wasn't online. That's not counting 8,11 listings. I would probably upvote 8,00-8,22 suggestion... maybe even 8,00-8,33. With a bigger range we might go a week without a price change(just a thought)

When I was making the suggestion, I thought why not add 8.00 ref in the range, then I saw the immense buyer at 8.00 ref and how some people are complaining how many adds they get if they put up 8.00 ref. Yes, you will always be able to buy above and below market price no matter what the price is, you can even still buy keys for 7.00 - 7.66 ref if you have the patience.

If you have gone over all the links, you would realize why I included 8.22 - 8.33 as the range.

You really want keys to go back down,but when someone has the proof those dreams are shattered xD

I'm afraid that's how the market works ;_;

Think about gas prices

There's the Key Suggestion, we've been waiting! Good proof, Upvote!

I hardly included any trading bots in the proof. Almost 95% of my proof are real people trading, no robots. Remaining 5% are bots in my proof. Go through all the links and the notes in the suggestion and then complain. ;D

Also, if buyers stop buying at the price people are selling, this will definitely go down. It is not the sellers entirely at fault. Sellers are selling at those prices because they find buyers and they can sell. Ask the people to stop buying at those prices. ⁀⊙﹏⊙⁀

Selling an item for the highest price people are willing to pay for it is not sharking in any way, shape, or form.

~~OMG PCIE RASE AGIAN?! BN HM!~~

I think this is the only key vote I agree with, and I don't even have a key. XD Because of the proof of course.

I will seriously close this suggestion (No joke) if you give me One valid reason of why the key should stop rising and why I should stop this suggestion. Answer legitimately in the next hour, you have no more than that. Answer both questions. ⊙v⊙

Also read my reply to jamvan.

Next time go through the links and notes instead of straight up complaining :P

well the price raise is inevitable, you have great evidence, I just think that even if the price of a key is 9999 ref someone is going to sell/buy at 10000 ref, I mean everyone is out there to make a profit, and that means selling overprice, but of course you have people buying overprice too, so that makes it difficult. I'm just wondering if this incline of value will be eternally rising. I have no great valid reasons, just opinions, I have 7 keys myself but I never want to sell them because the price always rises, so I'd sell for over the price, and that's what other people are doing too, they are scared the price will rise again so they make sure to sell over the price and then what do ya know, the price rises, so I'm just saying we should lock the price of a key where it stands for a while and see if people stop trying to be ahead of the game. But as you can see, I have nothing to contradict you, so good on ya

The price of keys are fixed they are forever 2.5$ max it's actually the price of metal going down. Metal if free you play you get and teh added n fact that it is useless and no one wants them :S

Keys going up in ref doesnt change the value of keys at all.

Not a bad try but you ended up supporting me. ;D I wish more suggester did this and opened up minds.

It won't be eternally rising, there will be a certain point where people will say, no more and stop paying massive amount of ref or key market will just shorten down a bit. One of the two will happen, sooner or later.

Right now, people can afford 8.00 ref, 8.33 ref and buy at those prices and sellers can steadily sell them at those prices without having any sort of problem at all in fact sometimes it happens that they start selling too fast too quick, hence the increase. If you try to sell a key for 11.00 ref, it will be close to impossible for you to sell at that price now. Why? No buyers at that price at all/lack of buyers. There will be a point when that happens, perhaps it won't completely stabilize or perhaps it will but there will be that point. Key price is at the moment what I consider low because there are hella ton of people who can afford it at the current ongoing price. Just hang in there the point will come. :P

Only about 5 bot links to the proof, rest are human, also nice proof. Don't want the keys going up but I gotta hand it to you. upvote.

I currently just selling a key for 8.66, no adds after 3 days.

So if I sell as soon as BP.tf approves, then you'll be correct.

I have a hard enough time buying for 8.22, so I upvoted

upvote..

Ease!!

8.33 refined each http://i.imgur.com/KGCAZon.jpg

8.33 refined each http://i.imgur.com/Bcw43mw.jpg

8.33 refined each http://i.imgur.com/UYQEwBg.jpg

8.44 refined each http://i.imgur.com/1gWbCmr.jpg

8.55 refined each http://i.imgur.com/NDNE6ID.jpg

8.55 refined each http://i.imgur.com/taxVcX4.jpg

good luck ;)

Thanks for the extra proof. ^.^

2 news for free ;)

1. http://i.imgur.com/FmWG9SX.jpg = 8.55 refined - each

2. http://i.imgur.com/SOKRSip.jpg = 8.55 Refined - each

Really hard to find anyone selling for 8 or 8.11 ref, just bought one for 8.33. Upvote from me aswell

my trade. bought 4 keys since changing the price from 8.11 to 8.22 yesterday. upvote.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17004161

May I just point out that most of the sellers who are also buyers on outpost are selling keys at 8.33 and buying them at 8.22.

It's the notion of game theory that some people here fail to notice...

Its called a profit, not a value...

Upboat. Great evidence.

Great proof! Up vote! But, I miss the time when keys were 3 or 4 ref :P

here ya go. https://web.archive.org/web/20130114232406/http://backpack.tf/

*sigh*

oh well, might as well upvote since everyone else is doing it

Conspiracy ... tin foil hat .... all BP's fault ..... I'm quitting TF2 ..... why is my free stuff not worth more?

These sell instantly at 8.22

UPGOAT

I already bought lots for 8.44 but for now 8.22~8.33 is nice (maybe 8.33 flat is better but...). upvote

8.00 ref Buyer

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19663957

8 ref is really easy to get, should definately be out of the range

8.33 is ridiculously easy to sell too, I sold mine within 2 minutes.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20066064

ITS BEEN SIX FREAKIN DAYS

By the way AWESOME SUGGESTON!

UPVOTE!!!!!

Actually it's been 6 days.

Srry forgot to refresh but still thats pretty long for a suggeston!

Outpost prices aren't necessarily influenced by backpack.tf, because if they were, how come people are already selling for 8.55 ref? While we simply represent the market and it's price, the market isn't controlled by us. It'll keep rising in refined price, even if we were to stop the suggestions.

Well, from my personal experience, ppl usually use bp.tf prices. If they are looking for profit (as everyone does), they are going to go for higher. Those that are selling for 8.55? You mean like this week, or like two weeks ago? Thats probably because they want to make a lot of profit. How many do that again? Srry if i missed it.

Everybody wants profit. But since bp.tf reflects the market, it wouldn't make sense if our price was 8.11 and the entire market is selling for 8.22-8.33

Yeah well supposedly there are enough ppl who want profit that sell for that price. THEN you get caught and you can't really sell for 8.11.

Using the current trend of escalating key prices (~.11-.22 a week) it can be calculated that three months from now the key price will be ~9.66-11 refined.

I did this right before going to sleep, so my apologies if I did the math incorrectly.

Because ref is losing its value. It's play to get, so it's practically free. Keys are obtained through purchase, so since the amount of refined metal is increasing everyday due to players crafting it, the rise of keys in refined is appropriate, given that refined metal has been dropping in monetary value for quite a while now.

1 ref = $0.24-$0.25 (and it's about to go down, there's a suggestion open)

8.22-8.33 ref = about $2.00

Keys have been in the $1.90-$2.00 range for a while, so it makes sense.

Keys are $2.50 Buds are $33~ Has not changed in 3 years.

Buds keep dropping as keys rise.

Not all about greed, traders just don't want to keep their metal and will always get rid of it as soon as the price rises.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20006131 - I sold my 1 key for 8.66 after 3 days of trying.

Don't call me greedy, I just needed some change, and No way I wanted to lose any profit if demand rose again.

news for you

each 8.55 refined

1. http://i.imgur.com/oyAfNvR.jpg

2. http://i.imgur.com/LhprpzQ.jpg

3. http://i.imgur.com/1HJkALJ.jpg

each 8.55 refined

1. http://i.imgur.com/oyAfNvR.jpg

2. http://i.imgur.com/LhprpzQ.jpg

3. http://i.imgur.com/1HJkALJ.jpg

i think we can accept this voting . Keys are obviously 8.33 ref each

http://www.trade.tf/price/5021/6/None - 8.22

http://tf2finance.com/keys/ - 8.33~

Range is accurate,

http://scrap.tf/keys - buying for 8.22

Great examples are shown.. Definite up vote. Thank you for gathering all of this data.

All the comments I warned belong in the forums--you are welcome to go there if you would like to discuss the points they brought up.

You should have said that from the beggining before warning...you know, not EVERYONE reads the rules.

It is your responsibility to know the rules before using the site--there is a mandatory popup when you first log in to the voting section and the mods copy/paste a refresher on every key suggestion.

I give an upboat, because it is very hard to find someone selling at current price. I luckily found one seller on a server :)

Kinda wish keys would stay at an even number like 8 ref.

Would make life so much easier.

Keys are rising even quicker than before. Even faster now since everyone's gonna want keys to sell on the market for the summer sale. More demand for now.

Solid proof, even though I would love to say it isn't.

Why do so many people not understand the economy...

The economy's messed up...

It's hard to maintain.

No, the thing is, nobody understands the fact that refined metal can be obtained for free, and since it's crafted everyday, it's losing its value. If keys were to maintain their value, of course they'd be worth more refined, because refined metal is worth less and less

almost the same price than the steam market

Votes are positive. Proof is solid. There really are a lot of 8.33 buyers now on the market, not including bots. Really not much else to say about the suggestion. Please keep in mind that key cooldown rules remain in effect: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2620-key-cooldown-guidelines-read-before-making-key-suggestions/