Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 8.33–8.44 ref

Thanks to all supporters, Moderators, Haters, Highballers, Lowballers, Gamers, The Community, Video Game Desingers, Video Game Developers, and Aliens obviously

Upvote, even though I personally think 8.44 flat is more correct, I've sold over 50 keys at 8.44(NO, I'm not gonna provide you with 50 screenshots), 8.33 is more or less the buying point of people looking to make profit, just like the people buying tickets at 3.22, buds at 15 keys etc....

yes.

No, a lot of people care, it's just that we shouldn't get in flame wars on a key suggestion.

yea im gettin rekt

It's sad that you even got downvotes on that.

I thought it was just refined that was crashing, keys are holding their real world value :u?

Adding time! O.o.o.O

Sales at 8.44 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20144075

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20144174

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20145031

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20145157

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20146780

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20146897

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20143147 --> sold 15

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20142517

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20141075

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20139294

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20137268

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522268873

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522258840

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522379301

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522347186

Sales at 8.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20144677

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20144536

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20143836

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20141597

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20142320

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20142096

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20141388

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20141375

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20140994

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20140656

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20139658

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20139604

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20138758

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20138203 --> x6

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20137884

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522377396

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522356206

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522338783

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522339669

http://www.trade.tf/trade/522339677

Outlier sales

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20143574 --> 7.00 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20142610 --> 7.00 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20141681 --> 7.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20155911#latest

I put up a trade for 8.66 to see what would happen, didn't really think people would buy for that high but I was wrong...

Nice! Upvote!

what about 8.55? I sold a few ones for 8.55 very quickly

#savetehrefs!!

obvious upvote is obvious.

Well, SECOND!

will edit.

Got some proof, but for a key suggestion, gonna need a bit more actual sales in your current range. If anybody can still find proof of actual sales below 8.33, instead of arguing about the price, go ahead. It might actually help your opinion.

3rd* ...

and the 1st with a ton of dislikes

This doesn't need more proof.

I'll never understand likes here.

Well, you asked for more proof which is essentially not needed at all compared to other accepted suggestions.

But as always, I will post new sales/buyers as time goes by or you can say from time to time ^.^

Hey guys.

If you want to let us know your opinion about a longer Key Cooldown, post it here please.

=> http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/11096-key-cooldown/

I was thinking of doing this to, but cba as I have 355 keys and would've... you know.. kids etc would've just downvoted to shit and spammed "amagdggd fail trying to raise ur bp".

"amagdggd fail trying to raise ur bp"

Why was his comment warned? He's actually posting proof of some sort. Shouldn't badomi have gotten warned here?

It would be more professional to leave out that first statement.

Why would people with keys get annoyed over refined falling?

You don't remember Long?

Wait how is your comment related to mine. He said "butthurt" just to spite users.

Also a dislike? Really? On this comment too wow.

You seem to have edited your comment :)

Just asking a question is all. I don't like/dislike comments.

Haha...It seems like you are craving for adds and hate. :P

Thought of it too. 8.33 sales happens a lot but then again, if I suggested 8.33 ref. All the 8.44 ref buyers and sales would serve against my suggestion. 8.33 ref - 8.44 ref sales are not far from each other, relatively close.

Checked both of those sites as well. They haven't updated yet. Weird, huh.

this is one of the few suggestions where i can't say ''proof man, proof''

instant upvote! :D

You know, you can post counter proof to try to stop it.

Newpro

The price of the keys will rise,

If the backpack price does not rise,

It would lead to people not using backpack.tf for pricing suggestion

then backpack.tf would just be a site with incorrect pricing

supply and demand

THERE IS AN EXCESS OF REFS

SO ITS PRICE WOULD FALL

idk bout the bud but I'm too poor

SO TO REBUILD EVERYTHING

YOU MUST DESTROY A LARGE AMOUNT OF REFS

Who gave refined a USD value? More importantly, who would buy refined with real money. It seems confusing to me.

Really? Look at the home page. And some people used to do it, but few do it now because the price is not worth it.

Refs can be gotten by crafting

With keys, you cannot, you must invest into the game

Most prefer to not spend money

And some p2ps only spend some before completely stop investing to the game

Might as well throw this in there for the, "Sales below 8.00" section.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19441262

Its an upvote for me! But I think key price should have a limit (for increasing) before the market crashes and is increasing WAY too fast. I agree with pearl about increasing the key cool down.

I would like to remind the community to please stay on topic regarding the suggestion. What is relevant here are; personal experiences on the key trades, additional proof, issues with the provided proof, counterproof against suggested range, and thoughts on what range is most appropriate based on these factors. Community opinion on these matters is extremely important and off-topic matters distract from them severely.

In order to try to keep discussion on-topic, spam and unnecessary off-topic discussion (including discussion of the broader economy) will be hidden. Abuse and rudeness will not be tolerated. For discussions on the economy and other tangential topics, we recommend the forums; http://forums.backpack.tf/

For discussion on keys in regards to the impact on the economy, this topic in particular is recommended; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6090-the-one-and-only-key-price-topic/

For concerns about how the site is treating comments in key suggestions, feel free to start a topic in the following forum; http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/forum/20-general-website-discussions/

These rules and guidelines apply to all key suggestions, past and present. In order to reduce potential confusion, the mod team is posting this summary in order to help bring attention to—and remind users of—these policies.

Here's a Counter-Proof that should say everything I want to: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19441262 ADD IT FOR YOUR SUGGESTION !!!!!

It's poorly bumbed

This is what's been going on for the past few price modifications. Everyone wants profit, so everyone sells at bp.tf price + 0.11 or 0.22

If you put keys to be valued at 20 refs, they will sell them to 20.11 no matter if no one buys them.

Doesn't matter what you think, sadly, the market determines prices, not opinions. I wish we could just say "let's all only buy and sell keys at 2.33 ref again", but that's not going to happen. I feel like a crash is almost imminent (people are going to just not be able to afford to buy keys with metal anymore), but for now, the price will continue to rise.

Especially when these "activists" trying to stop the inflation think setting backpack.tf's key price low will cause buyers and sellers to use the price. The reason the numbers keep rising is BECAUSE of the buyers and sellers, I.e. Supply and demand.

Anyway, proof here looks good, up vote from me; although price may be changing already

Everyone's talking about the market crashing, and I'm sitting here, wondering ~~why ref is still falling now that there's no more idling~~ and what the hell would actually happen if the market did crash. Would anyone mind explaining it to me? Please?

~~PS: Not gonna vote on keys anymore.~~

I believe the price should go up as refined is so common, however eventually keys are going to go up because people are selling at the top end of a range because they can. By selling at the top end of the range it creates "proof" for raising the price on bp.tf which everyone uses as set in stone prices. (Thinking about this confuses me) When the bp.tf price range goes up, what people can and will sell it for goes up. When "what people can and will sell it for" goes up so does bp.tf's price range. A "feedback" loop (hope I used that right). A quote from wikipedia "A produces more of B which in turn produces more of A"

Sold mine for 8.33 within ten minutes, 8.33 seems quicksell-ish

All reasonable key price trades sells quick, since the demand are highest for keys thus you can't determine what is quicksell and what isn't.

Then lemme ask you this, is 8.66 a reasonable price for a key? Most sellers I see nowadays sell for that price

It's more about if they have success with selling those keys.

Well, I'm referring 'they' as bots xD

Bots always have ridiculously high prices, when the 8-8.11 suggestion was accepted, bots were starting to sell for 8.44 o.o

That's why actual users are preferred, and that's why the majority of Plaxorous's proof is actual users rather than bots :P

I see what you mean, so that means that human sellers sell at a variety of prices rather than like a bot selling at a standardized price xD

Pretty much. But since bp.tf records the prices of tf2 items, we gotta find a common trading point to record for reference to new traders/trade servers.

People keep complaining saying that keys are going to crash the economy but they literally can't go past $2.50 in value. Refined metal hasn't gone down in value either. I see this going up to 9 or so refs then leveling out

That's the point, refined metal is gonna drop so low, who will even want it? It might even go down to $0.01. 185 refined would then equal a key. What I don't understand about the economy is that people are investing in something that is falling, why do it if the outcome comes out as the same? Sell a key for 8.66, ref falls making that key you sold ~8.33, then keep doing it, there is no profit. It's just a cycle, no profit at all in selling keys above backpack.tf price unless refined becomes stable.

This is called market bro if you can still buy a car for 1 dollar I will cut my dick

there are cars at the toy isle in walmart for 1 dollar

Good proof and awsome proof upvote nice job bro

I think the most who upvote don't even want to know the proof, they just auto-upvote

You have it backwards--most people auto-downvote key suggestions

Not sure if you've realised but there have been people who have said "good proof upvote" withing 1 minute of the suggestion being put out, then there's people on outpost lying about how much they've sold keys for. Pretty much comes out equal, half the people don't want keys to rise, half do.

It's not that keys are rising it's that ref-

Uh, nevermind.

Sometimes I just up-vote things for no reason :P Most of my friends on steam do that too.

But seriously, it's the proof that matters most. As much as I agree with Subzero, people are buying keys for more than they should be, thus the price must go up. Up-vote.

You want the keys to go down, but when they have all the nice proof, you just have to upvote!

They good proof upvote.

Also I find 8.55 to sell fast maybe just my luck not sure.

Just out of curiosity, what exactly is bp.tf trying to catch up to when they say it's behind in keys? I'm just wondering.

Logic. They're trying to find logic.

If you've ever watched the market during these suggestions, you'll know that as the days pass that the suggestion is considered and discussed, the market grows. That's right, the market grows in the few days it takes to accept this suggestion, which is why the cool down is only three days, because keys don't ever stop rising. It's so hard to record the actual key prices accurately, because the market continues to rise past a price that's currently being suggested. It's already easy to find 8.55-8.66 sellers.

So basically, bacpack.tf will be forever inaccurate when it comes to keys?

Not forever, just for the time being. Who knows how the market will fluctuate? Either way, it's up to bp.tf to record the prices set by the market.

Keys will never become stable. There will always be sales here and there. When backpack.tf valued keys at 2.55, that was wrong. It was more like 2.33-2.66 as 2.33 came WAY too often. I just don't understand how 8.33 is a quicksell. Who's even bothered to put in that many ref for every single trade. Buying 20 keys would take a good 5 minutes.

bots... i can get 8.44 per key in seconds.

http://tf2finance.com/keys/

Here.

Thats what BP.TF is trying to catch up to.

TF2Finance already has keys at 8.46 ref(This is what more expert-traders use)

If anything,BP.TF is actually LAGGING BEHIND.

If no update to keys happen,then keys would still rise but BP.TF would just get used less.

What does tf2finance use to track the price of keys?

I guess I should ask, HOW does it track the price of keys.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/195-why-is-tf2finance-used-as-evidence-for-key-prices/#entry1572

-Creator of tf2finance

Basically a completely automated process tracking key sales, and if keys are bought in bulk it will still consider as 1:1 trade making it impossible to continuously faking trades to get prices up. eg in one trade 4 keys was bought for 20 ref it will be considered 1 key traded for 5 ref

That's pretty cool .-.

This is just stupid. Why we have to wait several days for admin to accept this? Now keys are 8.44 flat.

Have you seen the updates I have given? They are not 8.44 flat.

When it comes to keys/refined and buds/keys I trust only tf2finance. Backpack is accurate only when prices are very stable.

Just to let you know. It is still very much possible to get for 8.33 ref

It's possible because many people are following backpack.tf prices

Untrue. Majority of classifieds, and majority of sellers on outpost, are selling for above this price. Do they have success with it? It's likely. How do you think we make these suggestions if people are following bp.tf prices? Obviously if a suggestion is being made, then the price is due for an increase.

It's still pretty easy to get keys at 8 ref, but nobody cares. We can just shove those people off as quicksales simply because we raised the price by 2 scrap over a few days. Mmm, gotta love those overpriced bots.

"easy to get"

I put up a key for 8 refs on the classifieds and got around 6+ adds in a mater of seconds, i would imagine trying to buy for that price hard due to everyone jumping on it as well :S

Sure, it's a little more competitive; But I see them popping up every ten minutes. Which means somebody is getting them,

If you have everyone jumping on trying to buy it then it mostly means the price is too low.

The price of a currency is where sellers can easily sell off their things at that price and buyers can also regularly buy for that price, to be in competition with so many people just to buy a key shows it is too low :l

Not to mention they could have easily went to any buying trade on outpost and sold it for a few scraps more...

Arg, I've been drinking too much wine to get into economics this late at night. I'll see if I can continue talking tomorrow, if this hasn't been accepted yet.

I sold many keys for 8.44 ref without single bump that weekend. I can get screenshots if you want.

"I put my keys my keys up in the air sometimes" and they are still rising

I know bible.tf's prices are based on how much an item is selling. Really, I'm just waiting for keys to come crashing down by now.

Its funny because they aren't gonna crash, their actual monetary value is staying the same because ref is decreasing in monetary value.

Is it me,or is the key price realy going up fast?

This is incorrect, it is in fact metal dropping fast. The price of keys is and has been ~1.9 paypal and $2.5 from the store and hasnt changed.

Because key prices are fixed in usd metal must balance out the prices

What's the point of 8.00 - 8.22 buyers and sales ? Provided proofs are roughly 20 each for 8.33 and 8.44 sales and buyers. CMIIW

Upvote, as this kind of suggestion will usually be accepted even if I personally buy keys at 8.22-8.33 ref easily in game / from contacts.

For gods sake, at least 3/4 of the comments are about bitching and complaining about the prices and the rest is supporters and more proof. Opinions and complaints aren't going to make the price go down, its actual economics used in a fictional game, get over it.

Back to reality, 8.33-8.44 is acceptable with near equal amount. Keep it at that until we get more at 8.44 before setting a sole standard.

Someone that understands how the law of supply and demand works! Pretty simple, really. As more metal exists, it's going to progressively become less valuable.

What is 'artificial inflation' for 400 points Alex.

This has been busy work for you cleverpun :c ...anyway proof looks good enough to show that there are indeed sellers at this range and that sales are being made. Also with 8.33 as a minimum range it would be more convenient for traders to buy/sell at this range (saves most of the time the need to smelt scrap). Upvote from me.

How to make easy profit:

Buy keys from the people who sell them for 8 ref (still pretty common)

Sell key for 8.44

Purchase from the still common 8 ref sellers.

Repeat

Stock up on keys

Wait for people to raise the bp.tf value

Watch as the system now moves up 1-2 more scrap per key because of new guys who run solely by backpack.tf

Repeat indefinitely

Profit! :D

Bp.tf reflects the price of the market, we do not make the prices. For a suggestion to be made you need pre-existing proof, your logic if flaw just simply due to the fact that 8.44 ref already happens regularly which is where the proof comes from.

Also bp.tf is eternally lagging behind the real prices of keys and practically all other major pricing websites. If you prefer i invite you to use http://tf2finance.com/keys/ Completely automated tracking which is what most players who do some serious trading use.

and you're not profiting at all, keys are always 2.5$ max you're essentially trading 2.5$ for another 2.5$

I meant more in the materialistic sense of profit, rather than the monetary; You know what I mean.

If you think our pricing is based on the materialistic value of keys rather than the monetary value, you're not gonna understand the key prices. The key price should be maintaining a steady value in USD (which it is, at around $1.90. See here: [url]http://i.imgur.com/f54fHdp.jpg[/url]). Since refined metal is produced every day, the supply of it increases while demand remains the same, leading to a lower equilibrium price. Refined metal drops in monetary value, so keys rise in refined metal value in order to maintain it's actual value. Why does ref change in value while keys HAVE to stay the same? Because, as I stated earlier, there's a lot more ref everyday, yet the demand for it hasn't changed whatsoever, so it's priced lower. Keys have pretty much maintained the same supply to demand ratio for a while (because noobs who buy from the Mann Co. Store probably aren't too into PP trading). Also, keys actually require money to supply them, while refined metal can be made for free by collecting weapons.

tl;dr keys have maintained a stable monetary value, which is appropriate

What you just said. This is why I don't understand why people trade keys for higher and higher if nothing is changing since ref is falling.

Bots are sometimes reliable proof, but other times they are not.

If a bot is actively buying above the current price, with plenty of metal in stock, it can be considered valid proof because this means anyone could quickly sell their key at ANY time for this price. This is not a matter of convenience as many people dismiss it as, it's simply smart trading on behalf of the seller (i.e. people like to sell things at higher values, basic trading).

However if a bot has successful sales above the current price, it can be questionable proof because sometimes people are in a rush and will pay the extra scrap for convenience's sake. In this case bot proof is controversial.

All of your bot proof is fine, as far as I know, unless the attitude of the mods has changed since last I checked.

I'm buying keys for 8.44 and I've bought 6 already if it helps anything.

i agree with this since i was in a trading server most of people sold it for 8.44 wont provide screen shots up vote

i think refined will drop in $ this month.

Doesn't matter! key rose 3-4 times in last 2 weeks. ref dropped once in last 3-4 weeks. People are manipulating prices. As long as the community makes the price, people will follow, and allows raise the price for their personal profit. Then we use the profit as proof! It's shocking that hardly anyone is against this massive inflation!

I hope you know keys are rising by the scrap, while refined is...well, for each refined. By that logic, for every 9 suggestions for key price to rise (that is, if each one was a scrap increase), there will be one ref drop.

Also, idk why you're flaming here, because the proof is all there. It's obvious that the market has adjusted for an increase.

I'm already gathering proof for a ref drop...

so what you are conveying is that you don't mind keys increasing by a ref each months xD ahahahaha. ok. by end of the year, keys will be 16 ref.. that sounds good right? when will people say stop!?

You're among the couple hundred of people who want it to stop. And since you're so set on this, I'll say again what I said in an earlier suggestion.

Bp.tf doesn't control the market. If we were to stop suggesting that the price in ref goes up, the market nonetheless would continue to rise, and bp.tf would be rendered an inaccurate pricing source.

Let's say we rejected this suggestion, and kept the price here on bp.tf at ~8 ref.

Well, people will continue to sell for more than 8 ref. Yes, it's for profit, but then, people will start buying those 8+ ref keys.

Now people have bought keys for more than they're worth. So what do they do? Sell for more, because of profit.

Now keys will no longer be found at 8 ref, because they all sold for, let's say, 8.11 ref, and those who bought them list and sell them for 8.22 ref. Because of the increase in sellers at 8.22 ref, people will start to snatch up 8.11 ref keys, and soon, there will be little, if not, no keys selling for 8.11. And the cycle continues.

A week or two from now, everybody will be selling for 8.33+ ref. And bp.tf will still be here at 8 ref.

We do not control the market. We simply fix the price according to the market. It's not like if all of a sudden keys were to be priced at 2.33 ref, people would start selling and buying for that amount. They would continue to increase their prices, and bp.tf would be considered outdated and incorrect.

It's all a matter of supply and demand. It wouldn't make sense if keys were believed to be worth 7 ref when the market for keys is in the 8-8.11 ref zone.

So unless you want bp.tf to lie about the price of the key, I suggest you stop complaining. Because either way, you'll more than likely never see a key on the market for less than bp.tf prices.

inb4 this comment gets hundreds of dislikes because I actually explained this thoroughly, yet economic noobs are too stubborn to accept it...again

You do realise thousands of people use bp.tf as a guideline to pricing right!? Hence if a suggestion for an item has a cooldown, of lets say 2-4 weeks perharp, the destruction of the economy will slow down! I'm thinking of the future, while you're thinking of the present! earlier post - "It is absurd that people argue the rise in this product because "the price of ref is falling''.

in the past 2 weeks alone the price of keys have risen 3 times. I mean wtf!! I't hasn't had a proper chance to cooldown ffs! Refined has maintained its .24- .25 $.. So why is there an argument that refined is falling when its not falling in accordance with the rise in keys at the moment!? You guys argue since there is 'alot' of ref that their supposed value needs to drop? since when does marketing work like that!? Have you ever seen the price of an apple go down because the abundance is constant!? Keys have an actual monetary value, while ref is carries an in-game value. They should not directly reflect each other. The price of keys started at 2 ref and has sky-rocketed to this price due to the greedy one percent who hordes keys for no reason, and then say it needs to increase so they can make a small profit. Of course this small profit has snow-balled into this atrocious price, that the average player, or trader will have trouble obtaining any keys to open crates at all, because we have such a 'low' abundance since they are all being horded. HA! What a joke.The same way keys can be bought at anytime, is the same way that ref can be bought at anytime! they both have a constant flow into the market! People are just fabricating prices due to the ignorant buying keys continuously like little sheep since they have no mind of their own when they come for prices of anything in this game! in the next 2 weeks, I bet keys will rise by .55 ref! i can just see it now... Supply is high, demand is high. WHY ARE THEY RISING!? Because idiots over-price things for profit that will soon become a loss after the price goes up the day after xD."

You're obviously not seeing any of the points I brought up.

"You do realise thousands of people use bp.tf as a guideline to pricing right!?"

If that was true, how come, as shown by the proof by the suggester, people are BUYING for higher prices already?

"Hence if a suggestion for an item has a cooldown, of lets say 2-4 weeks perharp, the destruction of the economy will slow down!"

The economy isn't being destroyed. People have been expecting the crash of the economy since keys began rising. And I said this earlier: "Bp.tf doesn't control the market. If we were to stop suggesting that the price in ref goes up, the market nonetheless would continue to rise, and bp.tf would be rendered an inaccurate pricing source."

"in the past 2 weeks alone the price of keys have risen 3 times. I mean wtf!! I't hasn't had a proper chance to cooldown ffs! Refined has maintained its .24- .25 $.. So why is there an argument that refined is falling when its not falling in accordance with the rise in keys at the moment!?"

I already mentioned that keys rise by a scrap or so, so for every 9 suggestions for a scrap increase, there will be one ref suggestion. If there was a ref decrease for every key decrease, keys would be worth less and less with every suggestion.

"You guys argue since there is 'alot' of ref that their supposed value needs to drop? since when does marketing work like that!? Have you ever seen the price of an apple go down because the abundance is constant!?"

The difference between apple products and refined metal (besides the fact that one actually exists) is that apple products and the demand for apple products are directly proportional, leading to a stable equilibrium price. Demand for refined metal is pretty much the same, while hundreds of ref are being crafted every day. A surplus occurs because ref is increasing in supply and demand remains the same. This leads to a lower equilibrium price. Learn your supply and demand before trying to use it in your reasoning.

"Keys have an actual monetary value, while ref is carries an in-game value. They should not directly reflect each other."

That's exactly why keys are rising! Ref, you can get for free. Keys, you can only get by paying or through trading.

Also, if ref has only an in-game value, and no monetary value, how come it's priced in USD on bp.tf and sold through paypal trading across TF2 trading websites?

"The price of keys started at 2 ref and has sky-rocketed to this price due to the greedy one percent who hordes keys for no reason, and then say it needs to increase so they can make a small profit."

I'm pretty sure that the hundreds of links provided in support of the suggester's range is not just one percent of the entire market. It's the majority of the market. Like I said earlier: "It wouldn't make sense if keys were believed to be worth 7 ref when the market for keys is in the 8-8.11 ref zone."

"Of course this small profit has snow-balled into this atrocious price, that the average player, or trader will have trouble obtaining any keys to open crates at all, because we have such a 'low' abundance since they are all being horded. HA! What a joke."

Where are you learning all of this bullshit? Refined metal is in extremely high abundance because ITS CRAFTED EVERY DAY. It's so easy to get ref. You can idle for weapons and you can make your own.

"The same way keys can be bought at anytime, is the same way that ref can be bought at anytime! they both have a constant flow into the market! People are just fabricating prices due to the ignorant buying keys continuously like little sheep since they have no mind of their own when they come for prices of anything in this game!"

Again, REF CAN BE OBTAINED FOR FREE THROUGH GAMEPLAY. Keys can only be obtained through trading or buying.

Also, you're telling me if you bought something for less than bp.tf price, you WOULDN'T sell for more? Of course people want profit. But as mentioned earlier, how the hell does bp.tf control the market if the majority of the market is always ABOVE our price? We're at 8 ref, and everybody sells for 8.11. The 8.11 keys get snatched, and people sell for 8.22. So how does that become our fault?

"in the next 2 weeks, I bet keys will rise by .55 ref! i can just see it now... Supply is high, demand is high. WHY ARE THEY RISING!?"

Sure they will. And in the month, ref will drop in price.

Supply and demand for keys are proportional. They are rising because they are priced in a currency that is losing it's value.

"Because idiots over-price things for profit that will soon become a loss after the price goes up the day after xD."

How do people over-price an object by buying? That doesn't make any sense. People WANT to pay more ref for keys. That's why the proof for a key rise is always there when the 3 day cooldown is over.

inb4 dislike flood because everybody, including you, tl;dr'ed

If you need to TLDR it, it should be in the forums

I think id should be 8,44-8,55. Its hard to but one for 8,33 but its really easy to sell one for 8,55 and 8,44 gets sold like fresh bread. :3

Upvote, but it think someone should counter-suggest with a 8,44-8,55 because its almost impossible to find a key for 8,33 and if someone has it, its probably sold in a couple minutes.

Seems legit

It'll stop when people don't buy keys anymore

And here is an example of how single and simple minded these people think. Because people buy, they should raise the price xD. I cant wait for keys to crash cuz no one buys them. then everyone has to start dropping their key sale prices to the starting value. This will be a never ending cycle until that crash xD.