Suggestion: Secret Saxton at 0.66–1 ref

The amount of the market do not accurately reflect the rarity of an item. There could be a 100 on the market today, a 1000 tomorrow and 30 the day after that, FYI there are currently 6k+ on community market. That doesn't change the fact that there are still 400k in existence. So no they are not rare.

700 of an item exist.

Someone collects 600 of them and then the account does dead or is banned from trading.

700 still exist, 100 are available to purchase assuming they're all on market.

The gifts are not rare, but their availability is more rare than their total existing number.

700 is far different then 400k, there is no one person or even group of people that hold a monopoly on Secret Saxton. Nor is there a concern that Valve has banned/closed down most accounts holding Secret Saxtons. So once again, Secret Saxtons are NOT rare.

The fact remains, that how common or uncommon an item is really has little effect on the market, which is all about perception. And the amount of an item in existence really doesn't matter if there aren't many people selling.

I dont disagree about pricing, but the fact remains, secret saxton are not rare, period. There are more saxtons on the market then currently keys and many other items, that doesn't even include the other trading sites that have them listed. On top of that, they are still for sale on teamfortress store. So trying to argue that it's somehow a rarity and therefor a reason to raise the price is being nothing more then disingenuous.

but whether its rare or not is not the topic here. What is being evaluated is if people are selling it for higher than the current listed price on backpack.tf. There could be a million on outpost, but if they're all selling for 1 ref, then it needs to be raised.

In this particular part of the conversation, whether or not it's rare is the topic. Feel free to not participate if you don't like this part of the conversation.

The topic is what the price of these should be, you know, because that's what the comments here are for.

They are getting rare as far as we care, because so little are on market. There could be one million of them that exist, but it means jack shit if only two hundred people are selling them.

And yet the OP attempted to use "rarity" as a selling point for raising the price. So in effect, this is on topic. The amount of the market don't dictate the rarity of an item. The amount listed this week doesn't equate what's listed next week. Nor does it take into account those being sold in game and on other sites, including the fact that they are still for sale on valves TF2 store. There are literally thousands on the market, they are in FACT not rare, period.

"There are literally thousands on the market, they are in FACT not rare, period."

5 pages on Outpost, some of which are gifted saxtons, they're selling for more

2 pages on Bazaar that are valid [< a week old]

4 pages that are selling on SCM for at or below suggested range.

100 on Outpost, 40 on Bazaar, 40 on SCM, and this is being generous.

I'm glad you did minimal research into this before posting, there's less than 200 that are valid for sales. Again, rarity of an item is based upon the market as far as we're concerned, because we create suggested prices based on the current market, a basic concept everyone should know by now about this site. If there's a huge influx of saxtons later on, you're more than welcome to make a price suggestion in the future.

And unless a massive update occurs, such as one that would inject a massive amount of saxtons into the market, there isn't going to be a drastic change over the course of a month on how many are available. And don't use TF2's Mann Co Store for pricing ever. If we did, these would be the same as ToD Tickets.

Don't forget the 6000+ on community market. Stats.tf shows 400K+, then there are those that don't have them for sale now but may decide to sell later. Then there is the unlimited number of them for sale on valves tf2 store. So yes, even some basic research shows there are literally thousands of them on the market and hundreds of thousands of them currently not on the market.

As I stated earlier, the number of an item on the market does not in anyway dictate the actual rarity of an item. If that was the case I could make the argument that there are more Secret Saxtons on the community market then there are mann co keys and I could run with that point saying keys are a rarity. We both know that would be a foolish argument to even attempt.

The OP attempted to use the claim that these are rare for the sake of trying to manipulate the price, it's a poor excuse to use. The 6000+ on the community market with it's going rate and those bids and offers on other sites are the best way to figure out a proper price change if needed. So once again for the umpteenth time, they are not rare.

Alright, here's a list of why I can debunk everything you've said...

1. I did include Steam Community Market, I used the valid sale prices instead of just looking at the total number. There's tons listed way above what they sell for, so I choose not to include those because they're invalid.

2. Yes, the total number on market does affect rarity. You're on a site that prices items, so we go off of what the market currently is. And about your key arguement.

3. Total valid SCM sales outweigh valid SS sales, and then add the hundreds of thousands of keys currently on sale at Outpost, Bazaar, and Scrap.tf

4. He used the statement to prevent people from coming on here and complaining about a lack of proof, not to "manipulate" the price. If you can find valid counterproof, you're more than welcome to show it here. And now for the final time I'll state it, as far as the pricing community is concerned, they are rare to find to purchase

The VERY first thing the OP says is "Theyre getting pretty rare", the very first thing. That's setting a tone that because he thinks they are getting rare, therefore the price should be getting higher.

The simple FACT that you clearly don't understand is that there is 400,000+ secret saxton's in existence and that's just public backpacks. They are readily available through the mann co store as well as 6000+ on the community market, other sites and in game. Even if you wanted to go off the community market alone, that still doesn't qualify as rare. Rare by the very definition is "not found in large numbers". Sorry to burst your bubble but 6000, let alone 400K, of a virtual item in a video game is for all intents and purposes, considered a large number. It would seem your definition of rare is not the same.

And if you can't get it through your head that the total that exist in every backpack doesn't matter, and we only care about what we can readily purchase by now, I can't help you anymore. I've done the math for you above, and there's only around 200 that we should care about as far as our market is concerned. Why on Earth you think the sellers for $400+ on SCM should count, I have no idea. The point is, you're being very sloppy about how you get your numbers. If you're still going to argue about this, then you're too thick-skulled to comprehend what I'm telling you. This is going to be my last reply to you, because so far I'm just repeating what I've already said.

And for the final time, as far as anyone here is concerned, there are less than 200 saxtons that we care about. There is absolutely no reason why we should care about the saxtons that are being sold for insane amounts of money like you choose to include. We're here to care about prices and what the current market is, and if you'll blow all of that away because you don't want to be wrong, and just look at a single number and say it's right, be my guest.

Ok Ill bite again.

1. "we only care about what we can readily purchase by now,". Let's just get this one little fact straight, you don't speak for the community as a whole, you can only speak for yourself.

2. If you choose to ignore the SCM as a tool for providing info on how many are on the market, again that view stops with you, you dont speak for anyone else.

3. Ignoring the fact that Mann Co store still sells them and are basically unlimited. The SCM is as valid of a source for how many are on the market as any other site. The price range going as high as $400 is moot, it has no barring on the lowest priced ones. Unless there are random quick sales that go against a bigger trend, I.E. the avg price is $.50 cent and a few are thrown in at a much lower price. Then lowest priced ones are the ones you use to base a value of something on. As well as past sales, specially given SCM provides a chart of those past sales. They are tools, along with prices on the other sites to reach an objective price. In this case $.25 would be a current avg price which would equal about a Ref. You can see from the past pricing that mid teens to .20 was a common price.

So if you choose to exclude the SCM as a tool for pricing, that's on you. There are 6000+ for sale, regardless of how wide the range is, that doesn't change in anyway that X number are still currently on the market.

So basically, Keys should always have a fixed price because of their sheer amount on the market, and the fact that they are sold of a fixed price in the Store ?

No, I dont think the amount of an item should have an effect on price for 98% of the items. I also don't think having hundreds and more importantly hundred thousand+ is something that qualifies as being "rare". Through this whole argument with Curly, that's been the main point.

1 word, backpack.tf. this is how it works. Numbers.

Technically the word would be voting.

@Curly there aren't just 200 valid for sales, we use those 200 as reference, but there are a lot of more in the biggest market of them all, the in-game market (trade servers).

Anyway, upvote

I got 2 gited ones, nice proof upvote

sellers at 0.44

- http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20254608

- http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20224361

Both sold very quickly.

sellers for 0.55

- http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20196481

Link 1: 3 hours old

Link 2: Unbumped for a day

Link 3: Unbumped for 2 days

The proof for 1 ref is insanely weak. You say "sold many" and the proof you have of many solds is him saying "I sold one the other day and had a couple of adds when i was at work". Adds don't mean anything since they're likely phishers and you barely have any solds for above 0.66 ref

Btw, the guy who supposedly rejected a 0.55 offer didn't infact reject it. It was retracted by the guy offering.

"This user hid their own post."

Here is a bit of counterproof btw:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20254608

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20215297

DANG IT! I had like 15 sellers at .44, .55 and .66 lined up but accidently closed this tab! Regardless even if I didn't have my proofs 1 refined as a high-end is really high considering that there are a plethora of sellers below it. 1 ref gets trade a tad bit but doubt if it sells more than the sellers below it.

Considering one of my outpost trades is part of the evidence, I should note that while saxtons sell at 1 ref, its not that common.

http://i.imgur.com/qsg5RtO.png

With the amount of people saying that they sold for 0.66/1.00 ref and above.

It seems excellent now.

Good proof, Upvoted!

($0.99 on TF2 Shop)

Who ever buys from TF2Shop are stupid, most overpriced website ever.

I mean the literal Team Fortress 2 Shop O_O

Then say the Ingame store ;p Because TF2Shop is an actual website, and it's freaking overpriced to shit.

To give you a hint, Max's head is 128$ and buds are 37.50$ on that scam site.(I call it a scam site cuz the prices are pretty much a scam)

It's a site where they rip you off o.o

On the prices yah, they do deliver items, very happily I would imagine, considering how much profit they make off each purchase.

Lol, I wonder how much would a burning killer exclusive would cost there :P

48493785812647657

Where you'd get that from?

I'd say $10,200 and another 0 which makes iy $100,200

I guessed ^^

Oh...

The price in the mann co store does not determine trading value.

If that was the case, weapons would be a couple refined each.

I was just saying a statement that it was $0.99 in the Mann CO. Store now let's stop talking about this ^_^

ñe! upvoted

Looking for this rise all time :>

Upvote~

Well selling mine at 0.44 http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20189352

Youre not allowed to advertise your trades on suggestions

I'm not posting it like that, I'm showing you that there is a seller at 0.44

Sold in 21 hours.

*21 not 23

which means it's a quicksell

nice done, good proof, you got my vote good sir!

Nice proof dude, upvote!

Adding proof of 1 ref sales.

http://imgur.com/zy2e5Zn

How is that a proof of 1 ref sales if you sold tons of them for some painted hats? lol.

What are you even.... how is the cross comm a painted hat?

A doublecross comm is 4 keys, I sold 37 for one, meaning the trade was about .9 refined per saxton. The one below it was 16 for a white painted brotherhood of arms.

Why are these not valid sales?

After overpay, 0.81 for one. Also not sure if you can price these extremely low items by trading them for painted items.

says the guy who owns 6

i have 25, so what. Votes mean nothing overall, there are suggestions with 99% upvotes (keys) but rejected, and suggestions with 40% upvotes (team captain for example) but being accepted. What i mean is that the number of % does not matter at all, the proof is all that matters.

Would you mind taking a quick look at these?

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/538bf7254cd7b8233a8b4629[/url]

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52d4e2f14dd7b86f508b4568[/url]

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52bd08d84dd7b8aa0a8b4568[/url]

[url]http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52bb3c1b4dd7b87a1c8b4568[/url]

you are selling 6 biased

Where did I say I was selling them?

Well I don't think they are really rare, But a lot of proofs, Upvote

Some of the proofs expired and weren't completed. I agree with the fact they are NOT rare. I'm unsure either way on this.

meaning I have 6 so they should go up

People who own the item they're lowering/raising are more reliable due to them having experience with the market.

As long as the proof checks out, there is absolutely nothing wrong with owning multiple versions of an item.

377742 Exist

Please do read what Curly Brace said at the top.

Just sold one for 1 ref. Will get a screenshot when I get to my com.

http://i.imgur.com/gNC5Am5.png

I might also add that I haven't managed to buy them at 0.44 in the past few days.

In trading it's an issue of supply and demand. If there's a lot of supply but no demand a price goes lower. If there's little supply but a good deal of demand a price goes higher. Where these two meet is where we want to be.

They are also selling for this new range on the steam market too. I just bought up 500 myself for 1 ref each.

Gosh I hope no1 takes this as a start of a hype train or whatever u call it.

And no they are not appreciating, metal goes in the opposite direction is one of da factors in my eyes.

Excellent proof! Upvote

well, I hope this passes. I have over 800 saxtons if you cba to check my backpack :)

inb4 downvoted to hell

That feel when you can just buy more and not make them rare anymore.

Sure they may be getting rare. You also have to look at the item itself though. They are meant to be given away so people interested in buying them to give away may lose interest since there isn't really much to gain from these.

I just traded for 3 Secret Saxtons for 1.3 refined total and another trade of 1 for 5 scrap. I am pretty sure I can still get more for cheap.

Here is the screenshot of the trades : [url]https://i.imgur.com/CRVeQXr.gif[/url]

Lol, this item. Always starts to go up as we get further and further from winter then crashes when Christmas rolls around.

I bought one for 1 ref and sold the same one for 1.66

Upvote ^_^

Sold for 1.33

12 days and still not green or red light for this suggestion

Just sold 10 for 1 ref each. Definite upvote from me http://i.imgur.com/YlPY9jq.png http://i.imgur.com/9gyRjbB.png

While initial proof was lacking, supporting proof in the comments have helped to establish high range. Votes are conflicted, though an unreliable indicator as the vote limit has been reached, capping the results.

Accepting.