Suggestion: Non-Craftable Mann Co. Stockpile Crate Key at 1 key

Price Suggestion

~1.23 keys

84 votes up

108 votes down

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This suggestion was marked as no evidence and closed Wed, 25 Jun 14 06:54:20 +0000 by A Delicious Cashew™.

No evidence was supplied in this price suggestion, therefore it has been closed. Please read up on how to create a suggestion before creating a new suggestion.

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You'll need more evidence than one quickbuyer.. quickbuyers don't count as proof also

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Comments

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20668781#latest

only took me an hour to find a person to trade 1:1, he didnt even ask for any more items.

you're gonna need mo' proof partnah!

what boney man sed

More proof is definitely needed, no one is even selling them for a key in the classifieds

the finny thing, there isnt more proof. no-one is selling them for a key, my proof is that you can find people selling them for a "common sense" price. i put that offer up and in an hour, which is decent time, i got a trade offer.

People buy digital hats for thousands of dollars. I'm pretty sure "common sense" stopped being a thing a while ago.

"common sense" is when you buy something from the store for the price of something else, from which the store has infinite stock of said item, and has not fluctuation in prices. buying hats on the other hand, is for items with finite stock, no guarenteed places to buy them, ect.

TL:DR, store has infintie stock of both keys, at the same price, forever. Hats don't have infinite stock,fluctuate in price, especially for special types.

whoever said that the economy had common sense?

@2nd comment

hats will always drop, infinite stock :?

vrak. infinite stock, metal coverted to $, $ converted to keys via the in-game store, prices of keys, in both instances, is 2.49, this is how the economy works, you price it on how much metal is, so, if regular keys are ~8.5, then the only logical thing to do would be to price an item @ the same exact price with the same amounts.

Really? If I look, team spirit and After eight paint are valued at over a key each, and yet, in the store, they are $2.49, the same price as a key.

Supply & Demand > common sense.

thats an example of peoples lack of common sense causing the price to increase so high that it gets out of control. look at gift wrap for example, its worth one key. now say i have a vintage loch and load thats non tradeable, after removing gift wrap price, i literally owe them items. if i buy it myself however, i gain either a key from just selling the gift wrap which earns me ~2 refined just from buying it myself, meanwhile if i gift wrap the loch and load i lose myself ~5 refined just by trading my loch and load. this is true with all items, if i gift wrap them, they cost me more than they gain me, and if i make the other person gift wrap them, it costs them a full key more.

...I'm not quite sure where you were going or where you went with that, but I'll just remind you that the market does not operate with common sense in mind, it operates on supply and demand. And I'll leave it at that.

let me quote somethign i said earlier, as i have a problem with not completing thoughts, and points tend to get lost. someone got the point with the other one, so it must've made sense somewhere.

"the problem i have with the item is, it should be priced @ key price, and as it gets removed from the store, the price should rise, when the actual supply demand does kick in."

Let me quote you: "The problem I have with the item is"

Like I said, this is backpack.tf. Opinions don't matter here.

to each their own, i guess.

TL:DR supply demand shouldn't kick in until theres a finite supply, people let the prices rise, causing the tf2 store to become a way to flip a profit.

You'll have to remember that this is backpack.tf. Opinions don't matter, and the word 'should' has no meaning. Like it or not, supply and demand is the only thing that matters here.

Look at this suggestion http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53a5a00a4dd7b873478b465c Then look at yours.

http://backpack.tf/rules has a section on making price suggestions

indeed it does, and as you can see, i have he requirement of 1 instance of proof, and im not selling my own item in this post, its already sold, you get the point.

you don't have a good market representation

" Items treated as currency should have a significant amount of evidence consisting of very recent trades from the last few days at best"

also where are you reading that you only need 1 piece of proof

you need at lest one vrak. it says, and i quote, "do not have any evidence whatsoever." in the very first rule.

you kinda missed that this is a key -> currency item (albeit not as popular as regular keys, but still, it's a key) and that "recent trades" (note, plural, also note "significant amount") is mentioned in the quote I used

Dat price manipulation tho, One trade with a cool guy is not enough.

it isnt manipulation, its trying to spread a little bit of common sense so peopel arent beign ripped off in trades. heres my logic, refined has a specific price, how it works is, that refined price is how you find the price of keys, now a key with a store purchase has a set amount, and therefore, the price shouldnt have any real controversy. meanwhile, people who buy stockpile keys, now get more key by using the same exact amount of money for regular keys, if the key wasnt in the store, this would be okay. but it is, and it isnt priced any higher than regular keys.

basically, the key isnt rare, anyone can buy it for the same price as a regular key, theres nothing adding the 1 refined value to it, other than peopels greed and abuse of hype thats passed.

To break your "logic" here.

Mann Co Store price =/= Market Price.

They're two completely different items, and you need to prove the currency for this individual item. Do not compare these keys to the default keys. Default Keys [Mann Co Supply Crate Keys] Can be used to open any normal crate, while these new ones can only open the specific crate it's designated to. There are also much less available on market, thus those who have a surplus of Mann Co Keys are willing to toss a bit more in to "convert" it into one of these keys.

TLDR, these aren't Mann co keys, don't treat them like it just because the store sells for same price. Find valid proof.

but the mann co. keys are priced @ store price, and the keys are both on the store.

So? They're different items.

You can also buy an Upgrade to Premium for $4.99, but market price shows that it's higher. Do you know why?

It's rarer to find on the market.

gg logic. The thing is that, it's a pretty new item, and it's too early to manipulate its price like that. With the time I'm sure it will be worth the same as a normal key's actual price (8.55), same as the new hats = 1.33-2ref

the problem i have with the item is, it should be priced @ key price, and as it gets removed from the store, the price should rise, when the actual supply demand does kick in.

You got a point there, but ...like you need more proof, not simple thoughts about it. Also if its price is 1.1-1.2 keys and you wanted to do 1:1 with a normal key worth 8.55, its obvious the guy wouldn't ask for more since He can do a lot of business with that one ref profit!

i know i do, when i get enough money, im goign to buy so many of these keys that i'll make the price drop. it'll be fun, making people who use popularity prices on items that dont have a set stock in the community lose money or not get any trades at all. by the way, thanks for being the only person not trying to indirectly insult me when i try and tell a point that in all honesty, makes a whole lot of sense.

There won't be any demand because with all the other themed crates, two things can happen

1. The crates will never be able to be opened again, making these keys normal.

2. The keys will continue to be sold, and the crate will still be openable.

Neither of these will make price rise, by the way. Why unbox one of these when you can get one somebody crafted for less than a key?

an hour?

lol no

-vote

sorry bro you need more evidence to back your claims

read the other comments, the evidence is already in the economy.

Dude, the hell are you thinking? 1 trade =/= price for everything. This would be like me buying a bud from my friend for 1 key and suggesting the price be changed to 1 key.

your example is literally waht i explained earlier. buds cannont be bought from an infinite source. there is not an infinte amount of buds, therefore the price of them can rise/drop freely. and my example is literally key for key.

Your example is also 1 trade out of ~3000 in existence.

do you not get my point?

You don't have a point

i quote

"the problem i have with the item is, it should be priced @ key price, and as it gets removed from the store, the price should rise, when the actual supply demand does kick in." theres no supply demand, because theres infinite supply.

Infinite supply = more demand for those who don't spend real life money on virtual pixels

you can sell refined for real money, so you dont have to even buy it with real money.

yes you do :u you need to have real money at some point in the chain of events to buy a key from the mann co store

Infinite : Adjective. unlimited or unmeasurable in extent of space, duration of time

Please, learn what the word means before you try to use it.

umm, you just proved my point, theres an infintie supply of them in the store, and when there isnt, then supply demand would be applicable. but thanks for insulting my intellegence and breaking backpack.tf's rules.

I'm trying to help you make a better suggestion, and it seems like you don't know what the word means. If I insulted your intelligence then it wasn't intentional, but just because you can purchase one from the store, that doesn't mean it's infinite. There is a source for them, but that source is not available to everyone.

Even if it was, we don't price items based on the Mann Co Store, as if you read one of my above responses, this is based upon what the TF2 market shows. If people consistently pay more for the item, then that is it's price, even though you can get it for lower in the store.

There is an infinite supply of paints in the store, but we don't base them on that price, instead we use the price that is commonly traded.

there isnt a limit on the amount of items you can purchase on the store.

money is limited though... I'm not sitting on a million USD to just buy keys with :| (who is e.o)

Read what I wrote, please.

"There is a source for them, but that source is not available to everyone."

"There is an infinite supply of paints in the store, but we don't base them on that price, instead we use the price that is commonly traded."

Not everybody wants to pay $2.49 for a specialty key when they're more than willing to pay a normal key they already have, and probably bought for cheap or worked up for, and then toss a bit more on top so they don't have to spend real life money.

Even if the supply is infinite, that doesn't mean anything when you try to price it.

i know this, but im saying the economy sets the price, say i buy girft wrap, sell it for a key, sell the key for real money, use the real money to buy anouther gift wrap, ect ect, this is why supply&demand shouldnt be applicable to things with a no finite amount.

you're basing your argument on a theoretical infinite amount :u in reality there aren't infinity keys or infinity gift wraps floating around tf2. this site isn't about theoretical, it's about fact, what actually happens :u

If you don't get what I've told you so far, I can't help you anymore. Good luck in future suggestions. I recommend closing this to save others from "insulting" you.

say i buy the team spirit paint, i just gained a key and a refined, for the same price of a key. the price they sell at should be on par with the metal to $ ratio, not the popularity of the item, thats what the ratio is for presumably, i mean what else are you going to use it for? thats why Keys are on par with the metal ratio, they follow the ratio to the scrap.

"the price they sell at should be on par with the metal to $ ratio, not the popularity of the item"

You've literally just failed right here. This is the entire problem with your logic. We're basing it off of what people are willing to pay, not what you can get it for. Last response, goodbye.

3 hours! Hows this not closed. And youre 1 peice of evidence is closed.

its a completed trade, and its not closed because some people actaully see my point, but thank you for contributing to the conversation with your constructive comment.

Not trying to offend you or anything, but I don't really follow your logic.

It all seems to be based off the fact that "they are the same price on the market, which offers an infinite source of these items, therefore they should be the same price". There are a few problems with that.

1. They require money, which is a finite item, but that is a little extreme, so we will ignore this and move on.

2. According to your logic, keys are an infinite source. Following this logic, crates are also an infinite source as they are dropped from the game. Continuing with your logic, since both keys and crates are infinite sources, unusuals, even though they have a 1% chance of being uncrated are also infinite sources. In fact, anything in crates are infinite sources according to your logic. However, we see unusuals at $30-$3000 ranges commonly. Pricing should be used of fact, not logic as I have just shown.

3. Since your item is of "infinite source", shouldn't you be able to find more than just 1 (might I add, your own trade?) sale of this seemingly "infinite" item?

4. We don't go off the Mann.co store when pricing. A machina is $9.99 on the Mann.co store yet we don't see those going for 4 keys each.

5. You have already admitted that they should go up when the are removed off the market. You've just said yourself this isn't an infinite source as it will get removed.

6. Somewhere above, you have said as well "there's an infinite source, therefore there is no supply demand". Well first off, it isn't an infinite source, therefore there is supply demand. Second off, everything will have a supply demand in the market. Normal Mann.co keys are an "infinite supply", however, we still saw them shoot up from 1.33 all the way to 8.66. There was a demand for this seemingly "infinite item".

7. You said it was a "completed trade". I go too your backpack and see no keys whatsoever. The only thing there possibly you could have traded 2 keys for was your genuine shred alert. Any other combination of items and you would have 1 key left over. I then go into the history to check the previous owner of the shred alert. I go to his backpack and I see exactly 2 normal Mann co keys pure, not any stockpile keys. Therefore, I think that you may not have completed the trade and simply traded them for a shred alert and then claimed you completed it just to keep your 1 piece of proof alive.

8. Your first comment was "The finny thing is, there is no more proof. No one is selling them for a key." If no one is selling them for a key, that shows this item has a good price and is not in need of a drop. And what's kinda sad is I've found more things wrong with your suggestion than you have proof...