I'm pretty sure for a currency suggestion you need much more proof, but I am inexperienced in refined suggestions so don't take my word for it.

Previous suggestion demonstrates the amount of proof ---> http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53707b474cd7b8bd118b4a22

This has been needed for a long time. Staying neutral however.

~2 pages of proof on outpost (excluding the "I'm selling my whole backpack" sales. I think your proof may be a bit skimpy

hmm... I believe this is fine, compared to other previous trades.

Question- did you manage to find other currency items? ex. Euros/Pounds/Pesos?

I would really like more proof to be honest. Last suggestion had a bunch of proof compared to yours. Im staying neutral for right now.

Bad proof. Downvote

This is really necesarry, but it hurts because everyone's bp will now drop like 15% in value

Anyways you forgot to add buyers, I sold about 30 ref to a 0.21$ buyer a few days ago.

buyers are also an important part of the market when it comes to cash trades

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20192954 0.23$ buyer

And theres a load of $0.20 buyers, but thats not in the range so thats ok.

and a few $0.21 but some are not buying currently or in rediculous amounts

Just saying, if this suggestion is accepted, it will result in the price of keys increasing at an even greater rate.

Current: $0.24-$0.25 x 9 refined metal= $2.16-$2.25 per key

Your suggestion: $0.21-$0.22 x 9 refined metal= $1.89-$1.98 per key

When trading, you should be able to buy keys at slightly below store value.

Store value: $2.49 per key/9 refined metal per key=$0.276666666666 - at true store value

Lowering the prices slightly, we get $0.26-$0.27 per key.

You must also factor in people trying to sell items quickly, thus making he prices to appear be lower than what they should be.

Those who are selling refined metal for such low prices are already making lots of profit from weapon scrapping and other such methods.

And so concludes my logical viewpoint of this suggestion. (It's much harder to find evidence of this considering that refined metal is not marketable on the steam market).

The ideal system that should be permanent is:

Bud= 8 or 19 keys

Key= 8 Refined

Refined= 25 cents

key= 2.00$

i've sold multiple @ 0.23$. in tf trader there is quite no SELLING for your 0.21$ only quick buys. outpost should not be considered as main source of currency trading

What about sourceop.

I know refined needed a drop but phew, that's a sharp fall. My backpack value will plummet by over 300 ;~; Good-bye milestone value hit.

Anyways, onto the proof: Not sure about the 21 with what's provided. I know the market is pretty small when it comes to refined paypal selling but

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/21525872 - Seems to be rather sold out almost?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23131850 - Looks good, have well over 120 ref in stock still.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23069493 - 20~ ref or so in stock so alright.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17588815 - Looks like JJ bumped his prices back up to .22, maybe .21 was selling a bit to fast for him?

21 is a bit slim on proof-wise. I'll be neutral for now until some more solid .21 gets posted.

Common sense would say this should be done as keys rise but it doesn't seem to matter here cause manipulation

I sold 1000+ refined in the past month. Let me give my input.

0.24-0.25

0.24 and 0.25 are most definitely out of the picture. It takes forever to sell at 0.24-0.25 and I only sell 10 ish if someone ever does come. People usually refuse to buy at 0.25.

0.22-0.23

0.23 has been more favourable to me. This range works pretty well and is what most non bulk sellers sell at on tf2-t, and other forums. It's not terribly hard to sell at this price, just takes a bit of time. People do buy at least 50 in one go at this price. 0.22 is a much better selling price than 0.23 however.

0.21

This is the price I've been selling at. I get lots and lots of requests at this price, selling over 300 to one person at a time. I feel like this might be the quicksell, bulk price that sellers use when they have too much refined (myself included) and want to make a deal (if you buy 100, 0.21 each)

My opinion

Setting the range to 0.22-0.23 would be alright. I'm still unsure whether to include 0.23 in.

Many many people are selling at 0.21 believe me, but it sells too fast to be legitimate.

No. Nowhere near enough proof, use other sites. 100% outpost isn't valid for refined. See previous suggestions.

People are quickbuying at .20 and .21, most of which has sold out according to your own proof.

Also, according to your own proof you can see exactly what I'm talking about.

One .21 seller has bumped up to .22

Two are in currencies other than bitcoin/paypal/google wallet

The remaining 2 have about 175 ref altogether between them.

In my opinion not enough to support the low end.

Of the TF2-T links provided by Plaxorous, both are 'new' sellers with little rep and again, maybe 100 pieces of ref between the two of them.

As stated in the comments, the price you can charge for real money trading is often dependent on your reputation and availability.

I have to say I'm kind of disappointed with the lack of effort here. Lot's of comments from OP and his supporters retorting with "find your own proof then, counterproof me" yada yada.

The burden of proof should always be ON THE SUGGESTER. Why make 2 or 3 or 12 people do the work 1 person could've done effectively.

It's not our job to police you.

Additionally, some of us are 'old school'. SOP is still a relevant website, and when gathering proof, tf2o should not be the end all be all.

Proof is proof. I think if you actually took a day to add some of these refined sellers to ask "hey are you selling much ref at ___ cents?" they would probably be happy to oblige.

TL;DR: Low end not supported by the proof given. Can't base it off 150 pieces of metal or currencies no one uses, and if it's still selling at .23 as demonstrated in the comments, it should be included in this suggestion.

I don't know whats going right, but this can actually damage the keys a bit considering you need ref to buy em...

More effort needed

about dang time :P

He has one in his backpack. downvote

Good proof, the price is very outdated, and it is time to counter the milestone for the price of keys

My backpack value is crying

Killing keys since '09

Though the price is outdated, doesn't mean there is a rush to make a new suggestion with little proof (currency suggestion standards). Downvote!

Some one should resuggest this.

0.21 should not be in range.

A price drop is needed though, Refined metal does not sell at 0.24-0.25 anymore.

Theres proof but logically its a dramatical drop.

well. i have constant seller at 0.2, with fees on him, ref price will drop and drop i guess :P

Upvote nice prooves,

Owns 4 down vote XD

Key prices rising and ref dropping? People are getting crazy with these prices!

This is really going to hurt the entire everything....keys at a all time high, buds going to a all time low.....Refined at a all time low......things just are not looking good for the entire market and such....

Woah man that debate... not too sure but I guess I'll upvote and see what happens. RIP my decent BP value ;-;

I think you'll need more proof for changing the value of a currency. Also, you have provided more links outside your range than inside, which doesn't really support your case.

Your argument about it being 5 months old to justify the dramatic drop is not very strong. If I recall correctly, the ref price remained unchanged when keys dropped (after the bread update). It should have actually gone up, and down to the current range.

PLS Dont do it.

The proof is alright, besides the refined metal needs to be adjusted.

Upvote.

Im gonna lose $20 if this is accepted. GG

It should be like, $.21, since most of them are selling/buying them at the price.

I was trying to cash out for pure and sell it for 0.23$

*sobs*

Good proof tho. Upvoted

Man, the above comments are nuts.

Well needed drop, along with the evidence from Plax it's a happy upvote.

refined metal should be put on the market :p

Down goes my bp by like $300, gg gaben

My bp just skyrocketted. Thank you keep up the good work.

To whoever says proof is low for a currency item : Refined metal aren't that much popular in cash trades. Keys are way more traded.

Plus,if we consider that keys are in the 1,75-1,95$ range refs are around 0,20-0,22. Upvote,this drop was needed.

upvote niceproof

ita a needed drop but scary this will change the market a lot.Keys will be more and god knows why buds being marketable brought the price down.

W.T.F what is taking so long? are they waiting for some one to post a crap load of people selling/sold at 3 keys??? or are they just lazy and have not decided weather or not to accept it, crash the market, or decline, screw the proof? I mean, its been 4 days!

PS good proof btw

The price of keys is rising... Refined has to become cheaper.

hmmm... why not .22-.23?

No, Wait!

But the proof is so nice and organized~

BUT, YOUR BACKPACK! IT'LL GREATLY DECREASE!

Nghh.. I must upvote, Now!

This needed to go down. thanks!

$0.21... buy 9 for $1.89? And keys for... what? I'm so bad about irl trades o.o neutral

Someone doesnt wanna approve this. I guess he/she must have lots of refs to sell before approving. This is a mafia.

Just finished reading through the insane amount of comments. Here's my point, especially in regard to the proof-haters who talk about tf2outpost proof pricing ~ hasn't tf2op become fairly dominant across ALL trading types, including actual cash transactions? I haven't had much luck on other trading sites for a while with basic trading, and their layout, search terms, and userbase is vastly superior. (Although it would be great if they added Spiral Knights items - but I digress). The point is, it's not horribly out of place to post proof of almost exclusively tf2op links (and yes, I noticed the other links in the comments).

Also - refined has become virtually useless in the trading community. Yes, 9 ref @ 0.25 comes out to 2.25, but people simply don't want to trade their ref for keys anymore. Keys haven't been stable around 2.66 for a very, very long time, and that has driven away most people looking for a little profit through bulk key-to-ref-and-back-again sales.

Anyway, that's my two cents. Pun intended. Upvote all day long, it's been a long time coming.

I sold 556 refined @ $0.25 USD just 2 days ago. I still think the range you're suggesting is not correct.

In my opinion, when dealing with cash trades, tf2outpost is not the go-to place. More importantly, you have to take reputation into account as well. People are willing to pay more to buy from reputable traders. On the contrary, less-reputable people try to sell for cheap to get more attention. This doesn't mean people selling at higher rates cannot sell them.

How long will this take!? Upvote, though.