Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 9.55–9.66 ref

Sellers like that shouldn't be used as main proof at all because you can't tell how many they sold and how many they didn't, they constantly change their prices. Individual sales should be used, look at my past suggestions on this.

So you have posted only sellers, no sales. And few buyers. The new range definitely shouldn't be 9.55 - 9.66 if I go ahead and do research, I am pretty sure the new range I would find would be 9.33 - 9.44 to be the most common trading point, (edit:) if not that... 9.33 definitely should stay on the range.

These are combined sellers with solds. Some of them indeed sells in bulk, so providing 100% reliable proof is impossible. On other side - i did mention wherein i cannot say how much are actually being sold. Due 9.55 bulk buyers, i believe with this proof it is sufficient to conclude that lower range has sufficient demand. Higher range should not include bulk buyers IMHO. There is even more bulk buyers below lower mark 9.55> and fewer sellers. So range below this might look more like quick-sell than regular price.

Dammit. I wrote a bunch of things and mistakenly hit the back button of my browser. Dammit x_x I will write all that in my next post.

Anyways, the sale market in the last 10 hours or so. Before you go on and say 9.33 is quicksale and that, please remember backpack tries to price the most common trading point. From what I can see, 9.33 should still be on the range.

Sales at 9.33 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297474 --> x8+

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23291426 --> x5

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23292203 --> x4

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23295217 --> x3

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293197 --> x3

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297597 --> x2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297140 --> x2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23295918 --> x2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23295582 --> x2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293365 --> x2

http://tf2tp.com/trade.php?trade=10289822 --> x2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23291708

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23291531

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297546

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297209

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297022

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23296533

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23297645

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23295748

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23295227

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23294394

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293932

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293737

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293622

http://www.trade.tf/trade/480011407

http://www.trade.tf/trade/480010220

http://www.trade.tf/trade/479998399

Sales at 9.44 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293608 --> x3

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23294261 --> x2

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23296185

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23295034

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293626

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293604

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293516

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23293604

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23292994

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23292604

http://www.trade.tf/trade/480015849

Sales at 9.55 - 9.66 ref

http://www.trade.tf/trade/479994918 --> 9.55 ref

http://www.trade.tf/trade/480002837 --> 9.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23292290 --> 9.66 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23292878 --> 9.66 ref

Thanks for your effort! With all my respect. I do bunch of them is being sold in 1> hour. It's quite slippery to jump on conclusions of it as common trading point or way of dealing with keys "fast". But, thanks again, you did great job at your previous suggestions however, will keep my opinion.There is quite no "solid sellers", all goes too fast at your min. range.

Thanks for trying to understand as well. ^-^

My suggestion for you would be to use trade.tf to see what sales are happening at most, if you go to the site, you will come up with the links that I have. That site records sales. Then you can go on Outpost/Bazaar and see the buyers side and all.

As you can see, the open trades that you put in your suggestion...You can't determine what sold and what hasn't because many of them are bankers and constantly change prices and some of them are individual trades that are left open in which you have succeeded but using bankers as "sale" can't be considered valid. Again, because they change prices a lot especially on keys, that is why they can't be used as "Sales" proof. If they were used as buyer, buying above backpack's price then that would be another case. That is why I use trade.tf to find individual sales.

Again, thank you ^-^

Biggest concerns about your range and my motivation to choose what i did is as fallows. I had some doubts. If we do look well at outpost, there is a lot of key dealers offering to buy keys from >9.33-9.55. There is also no solid sellers, those who are is being sold fast. It might indicate that these ranges sells too quickly. If there were no key-bots i would reconsider your arguments but in this case, these keys might get bought automatically for up to 9.55 refs... But thanks again, you got your arguments, I've got mine. I hope you got clearer aspect of my view on this matter. That was nice discussion, goodnight.

You hardly have any confirmed sales on both of your ranges. All I can see on both ranges, especially on 9.66 ref "0 confirmed sales"

Please do some research.

9.33 is very quicksell, maybe 9.44-9.66

See the other suggestion please. 9.33 happens a lot at the moment but of course if the suggestions stays up long, the range might just change.

all these people selling at 9.66 also buy their keys at like 9

way too little proof? this guy has tons of proof and i think he makes a valid and great suggestion

keys would be going up and refined would be going down without bptf

No they wouldn't.

keys were rising back when spreadsheet was still a thing, am done with you

Cooldo- oh wait, it's changing by more than a reclaimed, so it's all good.

Proof looks very nice, upvote.

On classifieds, some sellers for 9.33-9.44, I don't think this range supports that.

Classifieds =/= entire market

chances are classified ads haven't updated yet and those sold already :u?

most of the classfeild people are not online thats why you can see them selling keys

9.33-9.66 would be a better range, in my opnion

#roadto10ref

Proof is sufficient. Upvote.

9.55-9.66 is bit far fetched. Maybe 9.33-9.55 just plain

Don't know how scrap.tf hasn't been brought up as counter proof, they constantly have keys and re stock all the time, which means they get keys easily for 9.22 and sell for 9.44.

Links please. Or else you argument is completely invalid. As a key banker I can assure you it is really hard to get keys for less than 9.22. That's my personal experience at least.

Links to what to what scrap.tf sells for and there stock? I could sit here for a hour monitoring the stock changes and use each change as proof, considering the high range doesn't even have 10 confirmed solds its a easy downvote. The facts are there its easy to find keys below 9.66

To be honest, I believe the range is totally incorrect myself. I've bought about 18 keys so far at 9.33 and sold them for 9.55. There are multiple sellers at 9.66, although I'm not sure about how many solds there are.

It's easy to sell a key for 1 reclaimed more than it's price. Shoving tons of price increases won't help, as metal isn't going down THAT fast.

Damn keys are still rising. Not sure if it's a good or bad thing. Thoughts anyone ?

good thing for me atlease

not how tf2 economics works

If you can sell Ref's for money, and the Key Price RISE, I'm sure that's how it should be. Cuz we pay in the items on the game to GAIN more, not LOSE.

9.44 a Quick-Sell? serious? man with a little effort you can still buy a lot of keys for 9. this morning my notifications was at 50 sellers at 9.

please can you help me finding 3 keys for 27 refs?

Are there still metal farms after the July 2013 upgrade??

So many getting warnings on here. I'm staying neutral.

I think what u ar doing is misleading others. about 13 links in your proof are 0 comfirmed sold. u really think that is enough when excluding those unsold. bad proof. downvote

Even if the proof is valid, isn't there a 3 days cooldown?

If it changes by more than a reclaimed, the cooldown is not needed. Current price is 9.15 ref, changing to 9.6 ref.

Thanks for the clarification

Everything looks good for me. Nice job mate. Even tho i hate that the price is rising, it's fine.

- Update -

For those concerning chosen ranger, please refer to BUY REQUESTS section. It provided additional proof people, bots, websites offering up to 9.55refined per key. General proof got even more sold's as it was yesterday. Other argument is lack of constant sellers - 9.55> these sell to fast. There is a lot of sellers 9.66< and people do buy keys at this range as it can be seen on proof.

You are not allowed to use bots as proof. If you can use bots as proof on key suggestions, it would open up allowing bot sites to be used on refined suggestions.

it's mentioned as support proof to conclude - demand can be fulfilled and is being so. My initial proof was about 9.5-9.6refined. It's valid and does not include bots as the main proof. It was used only as a concern that works against 9.55> range justification. Hope it helps. Thanks for your feedback

"Support proof" is still proof. You are not allowed to use bots as proof regardless of whatever conclusion you wish to validate.

You're welcome for the feedback :), hope it helps you in future suggestions or if you decide to resuggest without the link spam of disallowed support proof.

It's not as straight-forward as it seems. My concern was also that sellers 9.55> sells too fast. We cannot eliminate usage of bots. But we should acknowledge it's effect on market. As long as someone provides more, there will always be people "quickbuying" keys and selling them for the bots. My suggested range includes legit (see - actual happened solds). Only reason i mentioned BUY REQUESTS for concern, that lower range should suit better. It does feel like quicksells below 9.55 more than trading point. Many people feel the same and sells keys for 9.55 or up, there is solds. This case should be reviewed as whole. I don't think there can be more proof to provide.

Thanks again, if you feel that my point of view is lame or information I provided - irrelevant, you may make your own conclusions. I am open for constructive criticism, but with common sense.

Bots are not valid proof as their prices change automatically

Upvote for reputation on this corrupt site

Bought one for 9,55 as I couldn't find a cheaper key. http://i.imgur.com/UxsnWOL.png

Even if this got declined due "low popularity", I think this aspect should be taken into consideration in future.

Arguments against my proposal was not convincing. My main evidence was NOT bots, I had many ACTUAL SOLDs. All I did was pointing at opportunities to speculate the price, I don't believe it's irrelevant to mention such a facts. I did include them per-request when people were arguing about the range. We might ignore bots, it won't make them disappear and stop influencing market. Of course, it does leave less room for speculation and people want to have that kind of "gray zone". Using auto-price-adjusting for keybots are quite useless in my opinion. Anyways it's up to community to decide which pricing and arguments they desire the most.

Thanks for everybody who actually did review my proof and my arguments.

-nods- Alright Duablo. Next time a refined suggestion comes along I'll list the hundreds of the refined sales on marketplace.tf for a higher price because mods ignored you listing bots on this suggestion despite it being against the rules, regardless of wether it was used as proof, support proof, backup proof or a passing comment proof.

You're main evidence is actually very small besides from the buyers when you take into the amount of sales at your higher end (Good job on that btw, nice to see someone put effort into a key suggestion rather than listing a bunch of links and expecting people to take it at face value :) )

If buyer links want to buy at a higher price then go ahead and let them... they'll soon be shitting their pants when they run out of refined and a key price rise hasnt been passed, but since these suggestions come and go every 3 days... they have nothing to be worried about currently until this site takes responsibility for the reprecussions community suggesting has [Some mods have admitted it already suprisingly, but no action taken suprise suprise.]

Thanks for posting a key suggestion which, although I disagree with this method of pricing, contains some confirmation of sales :)

Haha, my biggest achievement here might be few new speculator's I did introduce to the gray side of the TF2 world.

We can't compare it to marketplace.tf, there is site called TF2-Trader which pricing is way better. And refined pricing should not happen that much as they do regulate as keys rise / drops

if marketplace and tf2-shop were BUYING for higher than market value that would be valid proof

It would be question then, "what is market value" to make any conclusions. Refined does not need to change actually, because it indeed changes in relation with key value (becomes cheaper or more expensive). Changing refined value might only "slow down" or "increase" rise of price of other game currencies. I don't see any reason to change it's value whatsoever (except $$$ price) but it's not popular selling product as key counterpart so I won't bother much of pricing it. Thanks for your input anyways.

Good proof! vote up!

Sold mine for 10 ref here if you need it

http://imgur.com/SrkRZlu