Suggestion: Refined Metal at $0.17

From the looks of it, it is being sold. Perhaps someone with experience could explain the up-down here. But he hasn't turned it into keys in some cases (592 -> 54).

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531731 SCAMMER

No rep, stock avatar, 1 ref in backpack. Invalid.

http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198068844434

'Failed paypal scamming so he get upset and false reporting people. Do not trade with him.'

0.19 'unsold'

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/22775-wts-buds-2900-keys-190-ref-019/ (other link is same person)

http://backpack.tf/id/theradiatedbanana

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198070140938?time=1416729600

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198070140938?time=1416816000

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198070140938?time=1416988800

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198070140938?time=1417075200

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198070140938?time=1417161600

Never really had much ref in his backpack to sell in the first place.

I suggest 0.17-0.18 as a good range (ref really needs a range). Someone needs to look at the 0.20 sales, though, in the same way.

Anything 0.16 and below are quicksells by people with less rep.

The best range at the moment would be 0.18 - 0.20, if the 0.20 sales were being sold.

The best thing to do is add the people and ask how much they've sold. I don't have time to do that.

Oh, you should find more 0.19 sellers and show they aren't being sold. 1 isn't really enough. I wouldn't resuggest until you can do that. If you look at previous accepted suggestions, it's only dropping by 0.01 (min -> max) and there is always a range.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/23975-buying-and-selling-refined-and-keys/

No argument here.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23776524

https://imgur.com/DVPE2Wg

https://imgur.com/s9RSIOK

https://imgur.com/5J4zvBa

His bp lowered by $4 between Nov. 19 and Nov. 30. I think that he just bought some items with the ref. If he actually sold ref for PayPal, not only would there be less ref there'd also be less bp value.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23821858

He's steam level 11, 2 year old account, owns 38 games, most non f2p. Seems trustworthy enough to me. So what if it was only 28 ref? No one even bought 1.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23651936

The price of metal changed 17 days ago, so I don't think a sale 19 days ago is valid.

Also, the number of raw metal has not changed much during the past 2 weeks.

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198038284262?time=1415692800 74.22

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198038284262?time=1416211200 75.22

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198038284262?time=1417334400 80.22

Based on this, I don't think he's sold any.

http://tf2-trader.com/index.php?topic=28533.255

Good catch, didn't see that comment. But:

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198067647456?time=1417161600 1 day after the comment, 0.56 ref. http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198067647456 Today, still 0.56 ref. Never got any ref.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23531731

No argument here.

0.19 unsold. Well, if he has 33 ref, and his trade is well-bumped, and its not selling, I think it's an unsold.

"Anything 0.16 and below are quicksells by people with less rep." Which is why its not in the range.

'I think that he just bought some items with the ref. If he actually sold ref for PayPal, not only would there be less ref there'd also be less bp value.'

Untrue. Nothing is saying that he didn't buy keys/made a good deal/etc. We cannot speculate here.

0.17-0.18 is still a better range.

Well, his bp lost $4. He lost one hundred something ref. If he sold 100 something ref, his backpack would have lost more than $4.

Ive only skimmed through this, will read it in detail later, but Neo makes some valid points Zero. In particular the need for a range... low rep sales vs high rep sales. If you resuggested at .17-.18 Id be onboard. Ref needs a change.. and a range :)

0.20:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23824363

http://backpack.tf/id/arvids93

http://backpack.tf/trust/76561198044933832 "+rep bought 51 refs I went first and everything went well. I'd highly recommend this person for Paypal trading." 6 days old

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23752428

fine

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23741706

Doesn't have any ref, invalid

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23661928

poorly bumped, no rep

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22539640

'Refined Metal: $0.20 USD

Stock: 10

Sold: 95'

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23584682

fine

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12419098

'added for some keys and ref'

It is still being sold for 0.20...

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23661928

It was last bumped 17 hours ago. He has 2600 hours on TF2, steam level 32, and lots of non-f2p games.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22539640

That trade is two months old, they could have been sold a long time ago.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/12419098

That comment is a month old.

"That trade is two months old, they could have been sold a long time ago."

But it could have been sold this week! :P

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23315836 Buying for 0.21

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23651574 Buying for 0.155

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23933181 Buying for 0.19 AUD (0.16)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23315836 He's buying in installments of 50. https://imgur.com/N94ZjnI https://imgur.com/N94ZjnI He hasn't bought 50 anytime between the end of October and now.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23651574 What's this supposed to prove?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23933181 What's this supposed to prove?

Find some sourceop proof

Unsolds at 0.18:

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/159886-CHEPEST-BUDS-27-%8021-70-Ref-0-18-%800-14-PayPal-verified/page15

Selling at least 40 at a time. But never sold at least 40:

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1415952000 159.33

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416038400 253.78

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416124800 248.11

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416211200 309.33, 99 keys

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416297600 277.56, 150 keys

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416384000 38.11

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416470400 9.11

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416643200 51.11

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=14167296008 38.89

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416816000 91.67

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416902400 208.56

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1416988800 187.44

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1417075200 198.33, 7 keys

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1417161600138.67, 55 keys

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1417248000 161.88

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1417334400 167, 184 keys

http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197974643840?time=1417420800 131, 236 keys

Sellers at 0.17:

http://forums.sourceop.com/threads/162388-Buds-27-Refs-0-17-Keys-1-85

"But he has no ref to sell!"

Not true. http://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197991320838 Look at historical view.

I'll find more later

No, this is stupid! Ref prices NEED to go up. Find proof of higher prices. You are only looking for the lower prices anyway.

You find proof of sales at higher prices if you think they actually exists.

Can you find any recent solds above 0.18?

All because Refined prices NEED to go up, doesnt mean they will, its the unfortunate truth with key to refined prices going up

Please explain, in detail, why rising key prices and lowering ref/buds is harmful to the economy.

In that post, I never said that key prices rising and lowering refined/buds are bad for the economy. Actually, key prices have stayed at around the same price for a long time now, between $1.80 to $2.10 usd, its only the price of refined falling that causes there to be an illusion of key prices going up. Refined prices going down can be bad, since it takes more and more item drops to be able to craft and trade refined for a key. Buds lowering isnt exactly the most harmful thing, they are lowering due to the fact that you can easily trade a ton of items with a trade offer, compared to the past where there was a need for high value currency for trades with limited number of items allowed.

Stop killing TF2

Stop thinking that we're killing TF2

We're actually making it stable.

No, you're driving it into the ground.

backpack tf follows the economy, refined is already valued at lower than 20 cents, backpack tf just hasn't recorded it yet. backpack tf isn't "killing tf2", refined's uselessness is "killing tf2" (besides, it's an fps, go play the game, trading is technically a side thing to actually playing)

Like you said, i dont think people understand. backpack.tf doesnt make the market, it reflects it.

lool. keep telling that to yourself.

TF2 isn't getting killed.

Its just anything below a key is gonna lose a bit of value, thats it.

They'll probaly go up in value soon as well.

Actually, keys rely on refined to determine their price, and since buds rely on keys to determine their value, everything loses value.

key are still worth the same USD they've been worth, that doesn't change

Except keys = 12 REF, not USD. If ref = $X.XX USD, then 12 x $X.XX USD gives you the price of keys, ergo, keys ARE affected by refined price drops.

Keys are worth $2.49 USD in the Mann Co. Store, which doesn't change. How much a key is worth in refined metal is indefinite because refined metal has no set price.

Let us hope that Valve fixes this problem, or we're going to need 240 refined for a key because they're worth $.01 each.

Edit:I got -4 likes for saying that metal prices are going down because of the amount that exist and saying that the amount of metal needed to buy keys will increase. I hope Valve does something to lower the amount of metal, that is all.

Please explain, in detail, why rising key prices and lowering ref/buds is harmful to the economy.

Ofcourse you're killing TF2 . Mainly , everything is going down , keys are going up . Rich people are getting richer , poor people are getting poorer . My backpack was once more than 3 buds , now its 11 keys . why ? Everything going down . Its almost impossible to get a ''good deal'' its a little bit better now , but a month ago people payed with nothing but pure . And you're not stablizing it . Everybody doesnt care about anything else than keys . They want keys , Ref ? NO . Buds ? NO . Unusuals ? NO . Festives ? NO . Just keys . And thats killing TF2 . And backpack.tf changes prices really hard . Maybe a few people have other prices , someone makes a suggestion here to get something , they vote for that and BOOM . Everybody selling that item now sells it for less . Why ? They saw that it was cheaper on bp.tf

You really don't know anything about economics or this site, do you? The site is to reflect the market, NOT manipulate it. People want to buy keys because it's like a "currency" item within the game. Keys aren't killing the game because trading is a side thing (credit to Vrakos). If you look at the market yourself, what's the most stable currency right now?

Metal has became so abundant worthless, that key prices had to rise in order to be stable.

you're missing the part where real world key value hasn't changed, it's really just metal that's dropping in value

What? I said that metal prices are going down so we need more metal for keys. I never said it was harmful, what I said is that metal has become a huge abundance thus making their prices lower and lower, and causing metal prices for keys to get higher.

It's all simple. 2:12=0.16 ;)

It's all simple. 2 : 12 = 0.16 if we talk in euros ;)

And... if key is $2.49

so the price for ref would be 2.49 : 12 = 0,2074

So please - down with this pointless sugestion!

that's not how it works

Of course it doesn't, but it should. No solid point leads to price manipulation.

Anyway, the proof is not good enough. Read all the posts.

Ruining the tf2 economy.