Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 13–13.33 ref

hahahaha! oh doode! i made up my mind that the price hike was a ridiculous inflation by greedy traders (i'm probably greedier than most)... but you guys are now taking it to another level with almost one ref bump!! good for me! i want 15 refs per key before New Year! :D UPVOTE all the way. every time. all the time!!

"AND THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT MAN!" - The Soldier, TF2.

Anyway the proofs look good, so upvote. Good job, m8!

Sold one for 13 ref today in seconds:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24041953

http://imgur.com/Xc0pPw4

Price range is good, keys needed an update. Upvote.

In seconds?

I was on plr_hightower so i could go sniper and some guy was selling for 12.66. :(

His trade was glitching to hell.

God damn myself.

"Papers please"

*shows price suggestion*

"Your proof?"

*shows many papers containing proof*

[Upvote]

It Amazes Me How Passionate People Are About TF2's In-Game Economy (I Am Too Check My Backpack)

I'd rather keep ToD than refined metals these days. There are just about as worthless as crates.

Yes, it should be JUST like this, where worthless items go down and worthful items go up

So you would see the market to shit with nobody selling for items , nobody buys for normal price unless 70% of price , and people only use keys as currency . Hope the update will fix everything .

You don't know jack about the economy.

REF IS FREE = no on ewants it

KEYS ARE NOT = Everybody wants it

If you come here to complain, Don't come here at all.

You're blinder than a bat in this territory, little guy.

Good luck.

You cant do shit here so you're powerless against the inevitable

hahah this mr. hardstlye -rep me on ym profile becuase i buyed quicksell hats hahahahah

lol , this guy have real problems xD

yea every post was hidden and got over 10 dislikes

because he don't understand why key price is goingup

You don't know anything about the economy lol, your backpack shows that, you haven't dipped your foot into it yet and you're telling everyone else how bad it is. Learn to trade.

Do you know what my job is? I broker, My backpack value is going to fluctuate. Don't make a fool of yourself child. I think my name should have given you a clue as to why my backpack value is constantly going up and down.

I can't even tell what his name is trying to say.

I think he figured out why he was wrong and deleted his comments.

Why is your comment getting disliked? You're absolutely right

I don't care about likes and dislikes, after being on backpack.tf for so long, I just expect all my comments to get disliked lol.

I have no words. This comment is just perfect at describing this guy "mr.hardstyle". x)

EDIT: Now he comes hating on this comment too, do something WoodenHouse! :D

If you don't like this price you can buy keys on mann co store.

I don't understand this rage of key price. Me and other players buy it for real money. You want from us to sell it for 7 ref? So many peopels now scrapbank using idle bot.

For me now is good price for keys.

Thats why . The market for these keys are so big , there is no real trading . Look around on outpost . Number one rule if making a suggestion and looking for buyers , always search people that didnt donate . Every donator thinks all people would sell there items for 50% Of . People use trading bots for keys . They even put their strategy to make profit in the description ?! example : Buying keys for 13.33 Ref

Selling keys for 13.66 Ref

How stupid can you be ? This market is going down hard .

I pay in euro for my key, i can sell it for everything what i want. You want pay for my key with metal. free item. Key price on mann co change to.

http://puu.sh/dm8wx/b489c76fe7.png

Number of ref in game from bread update grove up from 1700000 to 2900000. 1200000 in 6 months!

What do you want from key sellers? In game is to many ref so we need to change key price.

Don't look at me and other sellers. We don't use idle bots to get more metal. They give you that price.

so buy it on mann co store

This is going to happen but I need to clarify this very clearly. Whenever key suggestions are open, there are bound to be many haters who will possibly start a flame war. Please do NOT start flame wars or feed trolls on key suggestions. This is a serious matter and is a bannable offense. Please Keep ALL comments relevant and constructive to the suggestion. This will make a mod's life much, much easier

I hope I've done you a favour Polar <3

Dat seriousness

If anyone is going to complain about keys rising

Let me tell you a few things first

1. Keys rising is a good thing because it shows that the TF2 economy is growing and getting stronger

2. If you're gonna complain about keys rising because you only buy them with refined metal, you might want to buy them directly from the Steam Community Market or the Mann Co Store instead.

3. This suggestion has sufficient proof so get ready to see keys rise

'the TF2 economy is growing and getting stronger'

hahahahahaha

it is growing because all those who realize that ref is worthless and keep their Bp's value with keys are able to buy more items down the road. Ref has always been free, keys never have and never will

Keep telling yourself that. We'll see how it plays out.

ok m8

I was gonna make a rude reply to this, but I won't because people will get mad about an internet sentence.

and you will bet banned! That's what happened to me!

Explain to me how a key price rising makes the TF2 economy growing and getting stronger while the number of trades on websites has dropped significantly.

Now let me counter this

First, keys rising ain't a good thing but that's how the market works and we only report it, the fact that keys' prices keep rising makes it very difficult to make any profit, whats more, buds go down. As @Lord Swag [Inc] says:

' Explain to me how a key price rising makes the TF2 economy growing and getting stronger while the number of trades on websites has dropped significantly. '

Couldn't agree more with this^

Sorry @Clarity but, you clearly don't know anything about economy.

Second, Keep in mind that most of newcomers hardly get some refs and it feels horrible that you can't even buy a single key, I guess that's why people complains about it. Remember, tf2 is a free to play game, means most of the people who play this don't have money to buy something good, they just play for fun and not for trading, also you can't buy refs off scm.

Third, the suggestion is not bad, but may need a little more of proof

Personally, keys rising or falling down don't affect me in any way, but I DO agree that tf2's economy is crashing horribly. Just think a minut about the people who want to start on the trading world, how would you feel if you can't buy a single key? I had that feeling around 5 months ago, and trust me, it feels horrible seeing how people buy unusuals and make profit with keys everyday while you wear a gibus and hardly get a kill.

That's all from my point of view.

Cheers

2014 Festive keys are out tho

And keys rising is a good thing

The value of refined metal has been going down recently

How is it a good thing?

' Keys rising is a good thing because it shows that the TF2 economy is growing and getting stronger ' isn't a constructive response.

Does the meaning of the phrase "blind as a bat in broad daylight" escape you?

If tf2 economy were crashing "horribly" I am pretty sure almost all of the items prices would go down not up.

Keys are rising because JewTraders

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24040738 11.33?

it instantly sold

i understand. but its listed under 13.33 sales.

Yeah, thanks for pointing this error out - glad that some people actually check proof.

Good enough

Upvote from me ^^

pretty much everyone could insta-sell for 13 ref, i did for 13.33, upvote

Get ready for another key increase! Anyway, nicely done :), upvote!

Good. Upvote. Nice proof. Cannot...resist..upvote.....

http://www.trade.tf/mybots/buyers/Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key alot of buers at over 13 ref

http://bazaar.tf/trade/1138790 just in 1 day

sold many for 13.33 in minutes, bought 0 for 13 in hrs...fair enough :D

For all the people about to complain about "Market crashing" You're ignorant. Wanna know why it's "Crashing"? Because Valve wanted to increase drop rates of items, get over it. If there is an increase in the drops, then you should be getting more items, so stop crying, go complain to valve, not Backpack.tf, it's not controlling the market, I'm sure someone else has told you before, it reflects it. STOP CRYING. This isn't even a game mean't to trade, it's a game mean't to just play for the fun of it!

Meant is a word it's not mean't... lol.

... Very, very useless.

Yesterday I was preying for an hour or so both on this site and on outpost to find keys for 13 ref. I found 3. Hard, but doable. 13.33 isn't so hard to get, so I agree with the range.

spent 2 hours and lowest I found was 13.55

Then don't buy keys. I have plenty of success with trading and I haven't had a key buying or selling trade up in forever.

Stop complaining about complaining, it gets you nowhere :y

Now I am glad I actually still have at least 1 key

Upvote

hahaha, same ikr!?!?

So, if keys are rising, then the tf2 economy will be supporting for long term, right?

*sigh*

upvote

remember guys you get weapons for free by just playing, but you won't get keys.

you migth get enough ref one day to buy one but you cant make/get them for free so i agree with this suggestion.

The only reason that keys are going up is the fact that Refined Metal has little use for anything outside of trading. If you're lucky, you'll craft a hat that is worth 3 refined or more, and it's pretty easy to have the metal for that.

The amount of item drops per cycle ranges from 5-12 non-crate items (2.5-6 scrap if all are weapons). With how many people are playing tf2, that means maybe a few thousand refined worth of weapons found every week. This endless cycle produces more metal than people may need, and according to the supply-demand economics effect, with less demand and more supply, the price goes down. And the only way to balance this out? Raise the price of keys.

Sorry if this wasn't understandable, but here's the tl:dr version: There's no good use for refined, and when refined drops in price, keys balance out by raising in price. (If there was a better use for Refined Metal, there would be more demand.)

If valve wanted to stop/lessen this key inflation, should they limit the number of item drops we get, or try to create a new use for refined?

They have limited the item drops a lot already, but there's still a great amount of refined being made, so another drop wouldn't be useful. The better idea would be to create another, and actually good, use for refined metal for there to be a rise in demand. The only issue is that after time, something that can be created with refined will end up being cheaper than refined.

what about adding a time commitment to making them, such that there's a fairly sizable cost of adding the labor, that could keep it feasible. assuming of course that people can't bot farm it.

The problem I have with the whole "supply/demand" logic is that keys are not following this. If you look at the graphs, we're getting more and more keys. While we have just 3x the metal. Meanwhile, there's no practical difference between refined and the key. If you actually use the key for its purpose, you get about 1/3 of its value or less (except for the rare unusual). If you craft hats using refined metal, you get about 1/3 of its value (except for rare crafts). So, while I'm upvoting the price suggestion, I don't see any real-world logic in place.

The only logic here is a market standard "the value of an item is the price someone is willing to pay for it".

No matter how much you could hate the key price, that's some darn good proof you can't counter.

The proof is good and sufficient. I have a bunch of keys and i dont think we're headed in the right direction. My only question is will it ever reach its peak? We're almost at 20 refs. Will 20 refs be the level or will there be that one person seeking 20.33-21 refs?

Until then upvote. Ill continue to upvote i suppose.

It appears as Valve is confident that people will switch to buy keys. Refined is an additional "bonus" for people playing the game. Despite this, people have plenty of options to gather steam wallet money and "skip refined part". Valve seeks it's community to circulate funds which generates fee revenue. You can still get much stuff relatively easy.

The question is, if Ref were sellable on the SCM, how much money would valve make from that? My thoughts: Ref would probably drop to .03, because it is and always has been useless (and btw, to everyone saying Keys are rising because Ref is usless, tell me, when has Ref ever been useful? Never? And yet Keys haven't always been rising a Ref a week? Sounds like you didn't do any research on why Keys are rising then.).

However, if they made Ref sellable on the SCM and then added some use for Ref, say a crate openable only with X Ref, or some new crafting recipe that people would actually use? It would depend on how useful the thing they added is but they would certainly make a ton of money.

Will they do that? I highly doubt it. But, I do think that that's the only way Keys stay stable at any given price.

They made certain experiment with Bread Boxes, they seem to have collected some useful info during this event.

Being as free currency, it inflates paid item value - makes them cheaper. Permanent refined solution (valuable use) might just drive all prices down (paid game gifts, unusuals ect.) which would make money investment as less favorable choice.

Question stands - how much are they going to throw away for free. You can get some paid-value crates with drops. All these resources are then used to buy games, services and items and it makes them, which some people have paid actual money, less valuable in terms of real-world money. Do they want this in long-term?

Why did this get 2 negative votes?

GOD HAVE MERCY ON ME. I just helped in the inflation of keys... :(

FORGIVE ME, FELLOW TRADERS!!

upvote

should of got all the keys at 2.33 they will always rise up in price

[Insert Generic Whiny Comment About TF2's Economy Crashing]

Upvote! I like the proof. It's reasonable.

Finally who is not lazy enough to show proof to morons :) people who sometimes dont show proof who are right (like myself) get our suggestion closed, anyways nice one m8! hopefully this gets some more upvotes and key price goes up

Much proof, very upboat...

In spite of how much I hate the rise of keys, I have to upvote. There's just too much proof to say anything else.

Considering the amount of people that don't understand why this price is increasing, it wouldn't surprise me if this excellent suggestion didn't get through. :c

I understand why the prices are going up, but that doesn't make the rise any less annoying. I was so damn close to getting a key around Halloween lol

Situation might change over time. If more legit range appears, this might get rejected just for that. It really depends on actual market situation - how well it fits suggested range during voting time. Mods might make their own research to see fit with proposed range.

Frankly, this range is low, even. I challenge you to find 3 online sellers for 13.33 in 2 minutes.

I wish all these people would stop crying over free money on a free game.

Proof is good, very easy to sell keys at 13.33 ref as well http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24037249 - Sold in a minute

.33-.66 Ref increase biweekly makes me a bit uneasy but I WILL upvote ;_;

Why and can you prove why your price is better?

Oh well I guess its that time again... upgoat

And we thought 8 ref for a key was bad a while back....

Upvote.

13 ref might even be a quick sell

http://imgur.com/Mf3hJGj

you do have great proof man, i upvoted.

sadly by the time this accepts, if it does, most people will be selling for higher than this.

why are you buying for $1.92? http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23859244 $1.92 is equal to 10.33 ref why not but real money buyers in your suggestion?

The price of keys in paypal or real world currency is $1.80 - $1.90 He is selling not buying.

Let's be real, 13.33 is already hard to find, by the time this gets accepted (if it even gets accepted), it'll be completely outdated.

Agreed 110%.

I mean I don't really want keys to go up to 13-13.33, but there's way too much proof to downvote, ;~; upvoted.

Good job, nice evidence. You have my upVote

I don't want to make them go higher, but the proof is evident so upvote. :'(

Listen, listen, listen... there are boats. Some boats need to go up. Upboat. :3

Why Is The Key Rising Like Hell? Why Cant It be 10 Ref FOREVER? Think Of All The New Players Who Suffer For 13-13.33 Ref Just For A Key While U Rich Ppl Enjoy While The Stuff. You Are Rich So U Can Afford 13.33 . They Are Poor They Cant Afford 13.33 But They Can Afford 10 Ref And You Can Too. So Why Cant The Key Be 10?? Someone Answer Me!

13 Ref For A Key Is Frikin Stupid. If It Rises Even More..Nobody Is Gona Uncrate Crates And There Aint Gona Be More Unusuals And Unusual Will Be So Wanted Till People Pay Double Price For Unusuals. Then, Keys Are Gona Be More Wanted And Trading Will Die Out And TF2 Gets Removed From Steam When Nobody Plays It :( Want This To Happen? No! So Bring Keys Down Or Dont EVER Increase EM!

https://steamcommunity.com/id/clayrabbit

This key bot is buying keys at 13.55 ref each, and selling them for 13.77 ref each.

It currently has no supply of keys. Only ref.

My unwritten rule is that if I can sell my key to a bot for higher than this suggested value, then this suggestion is too low. 13.33 seems WAY too conservative. I'm going to stay neutral (I would downvote, but I feel it being a bit risky and I'm not a fan of giving downvotes).

So many whiny children, no one forced you to stay in this economy.

stahlp pls

A lot of them can be sold really quickly for 13 ref and you got proof here so upvoted. Crazy how the prices went up like this lol

Honestly, enough is enough! This isn't normal anymore, keys were never supposed to be this expensive, just STOP IT. Why couldn't we leave it at 7-8 ref? That was a perfect price. This is obviously too high and soon, many of us won't be able to afford a key which will result more and more people leaving TF2. There aren't just rich kids who can afford whatever they want and get it served on a plate, there are also people who aren't so rich and who have to do it the hard way, who have to trade a lot with others. And when I say a lot, I mean a lot! All i'm saying is, the price should go back down, because this is ridiculous.