Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 13 ref

Again, this is my first suggestion on keys. Hopefully I did a good job, put some time into it and did my best. Give me some constructive criticism! Don't be too harsh either, thanks!

Edit: Added 13.33 sellers and added some others too

Proof that 13.33 is not valid anymore?

I added some proof of unsolds at 13.33, just check my comment below. Now I know what you guys mean, thanks!

Seems legit, nice amount of proof. upvote.

Edit : Just needs some unsolds at 13.33

While this looks good, it would be better to add unsolds at 13.33. Upvote from me. ^-^

Okay, ill work on that now

Very good proof. UPVOTE!

Good proof, upvoted!

A conspicuous omission of buyers in your proof. I shall provide them here courtesy of Gol D. Roger:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24526316 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/21346493 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22813283 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20663840 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23741703 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23780348 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24526261 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24525905 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22583105 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22455376 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24065887 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361337 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24423454 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361344 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361341 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23346898 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24525865 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361340 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361334 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23954284 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24285922 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24255488 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23988919 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23798941 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24305218 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24526203 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23882704 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17711888 - 13.11

There appears to be no shortage of buyers at 13 refined. Numerous buyers at a price usually indicates that that price is a quicksell. As well, many of your keys at 13.11-13.33 refined have sold, indicating that those prices are still valid.

I don't know, like I said on the last legitimate suggestion, prices have been going up and down throughout the last 4 days and closed down on the current range 2 days ago. However, as of now availability of 13.00 ref seems a bit rare now. Classified hardly has any 13.00 ref at the moment. It should be left as what it is at the moment unless there is really a big change, speaking from my point of view.

I vote up for now, just add some counter-proof for 13.33 to assure this goes through.

Hope you get more luck then I,

Upvote,

Looks legit upvote

Most of your "unsolds" at 13.33 are either young trades, or keybanks. I think you don't have enough proof to say 13.33 is not valid anymore. gotta vote down

Not sure how cooldown exactly works, from what I heard, only suggestions under .22 get the effect.

Cooldown ended...

wait when did cooldown end?

Today.

well ok den

upvote :D

Good enough,upvote

Just need unsolds for 13.33 ref

If you get some unsolds at 13.33, you're golden. Upvote from me. Excellent amount of proof :D

Why do you say he needs unsolds but nevertheless you upvote? plus, theres a lot of proof in the comments stating 13 ref is kinda of a quicksell

Funny enough. I will upvote.

But even buying keys @14.00 refined is not as fast.

Bought 5x keys today @14.00 refined and still 150 refined is in my backpack.

Is it really more dropping?

Well, better for me. Upvote if you all think. Its fun.

Je suis Charlie

I bought 8-10 today (via 1 post on tf2op) at 13 ref each without any trouble

wow - well I am not searching for seller-posts.

I have my own buying post and waiting for users who will sell to me.

See: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24481869

I didnt refreshed my backpack today. Result: 7x keys @14.00 refined

Well, I know selling and buying post is different, but both a good proof.

If I would lower to 13.33, I will get 1x key / day ... maybe 2x.

Result: There are not many small / normal users selling keys (they are finding me and similar posts) - but some trader with stocks are trading them out for 13 refined. (emptying stock, why ever) . Can this be?

signature:

Je suis Charlie

There's thousands of keys being sold bought in one day. A buyer isn't going to look through about 30 pages of outpost to find your trade, the only one in 200 sellers to offer more. There's far more proof in favour of this suggestion than what you're putting against it.

Looks good, but yes, me too i would like some unsold proof at 13.33. And you'll get my vote !

#JesuisCharlie

Unsolds @ 13.33

(Thanks guys, now I know a little more about what I'm doing!)

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24452018[/url] 3 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24478225[/url] 2 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24500090[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24471571[/url] 3 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24473812[/url] 2 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24447188[/url] 4 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24447760[/url] 4 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24483110[/url] 2 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24495068[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24498273[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24461167[/url] 3 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24441371[/url] 4 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24458906[/url] 3 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24265689[/url] ?

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24495362[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24505364[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24482220[/url] 2 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24493100[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24493346[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24471064[/url] 3 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24494157[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24490999[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24488030[/url] 2 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24471784[/url] 3 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24503076[/url] 1 day

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24434816[/url] 4 days

[url]http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24500572[/url] 1 day

Okay, now that I know what you guys are talking about, here is some proof that 13.33 is a hard sell. People are buying quicker at 13 ref.

Thank you very much

UpGoat for you <3

If this doesn't go through, i'll try again when I can. I am new at this and learning and now I think I get it! Thanks to you, and the others who have said so.

Proof are here...This is a legit upvote.

Good Job :3

you posted a bunch of keybanks, and unbumped trades now.. they aren't prooving anything... sure you can sell quicker for less, but you need to prove that 13.33 does not sell

if we follow your logic, earbuds should cost 1 scrap eachh because it's easier to sell for that

Most of those are poorly bumped

Edit: all of them are

fews for 13 ref, Current range is good. , downvote

fews for 13 ref?

yes

http://backpack.tf/classifieds/?item=Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key&quality=6&tradable=1&craftable=1

https://scrap.tf/keys

and yes it's a proof and the better proof.

your comment doesnt make sense to me, you downvoted my suggestion and now you are supporting it with some proof? im confused right now

supporting ? there are no keys for 13 ref on scrap.tf and 2,3,4 on class. The keys will rising.

Scrap.tf is not valid as proof

You should always include a screenshot of the classifieds or at least a list of the number of sellers for various prices, as classifieds from 3 hours ago vs. now are much different.

Furthermore, scrap.tf is selling for 13 ref, which is in fact the price OP is pushing.

I had the wrong link for classifieds :/

I think that this is absolutely more accurate than the current range, and as been for a while now. 13 ref is just too easy to find these days for 13.33 to be viable.

Looks good to me, with all the awful key suggestions lately this makes me happy.

i know right? thanks so much!

I bought ~30 keys from various users for 13 ref each (some also came from scrap.tf and other slightly cheaper sellers);

http://i.imgur.com/kM64jhU.png

http://i.imgur.com/SSW4FKH.png

I agree that extra proof showing 13.33 is a slower sell is needed, however.

I posted a comment above fixing that :)

Seems legit, I r8 upvote/8

Good, Enough proof! upvote.

Nice proof m8, I r8 8/8.

Have an upvote.

More proof, will be adding up more to help. (Some of these might be outdated)

12.66 refined :

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24496095 - (12 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24449339 - (12 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24494424 - (12 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24467945 - (12 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24485828 - (12 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24328217

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24437224 - (12.33 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24435777 - (12 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24498037 - (wants 12.66 in cosmetics)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24446726 - (12.33 refined)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24487790

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24487738

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24476003

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24484923

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24480022

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24478803

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24456519

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24469104 - (12.33 refined x8)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24456989 - (x8)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24458280

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24248221 - (12.00 refined, ghost trade, *sold*)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24434256

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24507834 - (x8)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24487813 - (12.00 refined *thanks morgan*)

Unsolds 13-13.33 :

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24499887

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24502022

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24501975

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24487087

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24484505

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24501785

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24471784

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24503832

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24503791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24450723

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24484010

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24454375

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24474522

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24499478

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24503324

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24505364

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24480562

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24490999

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24492093

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24490565

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24506710

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24506703

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24453780

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24504496

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24465332

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24503012

Classifieds :

Anything under 13 ref gets picked up pretty quickly, but 13 ref offers stay for hours.

12.00 refined every 10 or so minutes,

12.33 refined every 5-10 minutes,

12.66 refined every 5-10 minutes,

That's the stats I was able to make from my PoV,

It may vary depending what time you are viewing the classifieds.

** this is an observation, I don't even believe it will be consider as proof **

Extra proof - http://i.imgur.com/XCfFDTX.jpg

*Thanks to [UNL]Water_chip*

Under 13 is a quicksell at the moment

The vast majority of your 13+ sellers have sold. Plus, you padded your links with bots, duplicates, offline one-time bumpers and even a guy that was selling untradable keys (the fuck, man). A lot of your links appear to be quicksells as well. Hard downvote from me.

All the downvotes in the world will not make my comment less true. :)

Currency sells pretty fast. A item taking a couple hours to sell would normally be a quick sell, but not for keys.

That makes it all the more important to highlight the fact that keys still sell for more than their "nominal" price, as evidenced by the links provided. If it sells for more than proposed it means the demand is there - hence, lowering the price would be a manipulation.

his unsolds are pretty badly bumped.

But there isnt any proof that 13+ can sell in less then 1 or 2 days

I did it myself but I do not care enough to do it again just to prove it - look over the links, notice how many of the trades have below 30 views. It indicates either no bumps or very few amount of bumps. Means they sold rather quickly - much less than a day.

Protip - not all item transfers register in the "history" part of the Outpost description. A quick look at item IDs will reveal that many of those trades sold very quickly with little to no bumping.

What I got from the link evidence in this suggestion - under 13 is a quicksell. 13 sells just fine. Above 13 is perfectly possible. Current range is fine, suggestion is obsolete.

In fact, if you look in the bp.tf classifieds, there's currently only one key at 13 for sale. None below. Plenty above. I realize classifieds are poor proof but they do make for fine indicators of trends.

The classifieds get that way when it gets late in the U.S. During noon hours the classifieds were boombing with 13 ref sales. One guy has the link above.

True. I am just highlighting the price trend in the first paragraph of my previous comment - 13 is common ground. Below is quicksell, above happens often enough, and fast enough, to warrant a range.

Why do people quicksell? Often it's because they have a hard time selling at the actual price. Yes, some do it just cuz they don't wanna wait, but then again, keys are not something you should wait for too long to sell.

[url]http://tf2finance.com/keys/[/url] - currently 13 ref, and stable at 13 ref.

Most unsolds are quite young. Young=1-2days.

Neutral vote. If the sellers @ 13.33 cannot sell their key after 2-3days, i will upvote.

However, Looking @ your proof , Alot of sellers @ 13ref sold their keys less than 1day. Or do not bump frequently.

Hence, since quicksell is @ 13ref, I dont see a reason why to drop the price.

Neutral vote :3

keys are a currency. they are expected to go faster than an ordinary item.

Yes, hence 2days will be ideal to see if keys do rise or not. Since you said they sell fast.

upvote nice prooff

I approve of your suggestion, but check your 13 ref sellers again. When I browsed them a second time most of them have sold.

they must have sold during this suggestion because I made sure they were all sellers before posting.

Not THAT bad currency suggestion

White star

20$ bp, ~~probably an alt~~

Wow. Good luck.

Everyone began with a Withe Star and with a $0 backpack

This isnt an alt brah, and anyone can create a suggestion.

Buyers >= 13 ref

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24526316 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/21346493 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22813283 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20663840 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23741703 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23780348 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24526261 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24525905 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22583105 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/22455376 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24065887 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361337 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24423454 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361344 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361341 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23346898 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24525865 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361340 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16361334 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23954284 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24285922 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24255488 - 13

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23988919 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23798941 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24305218 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24526203 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23882704 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17711888 - 13.11

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/21942117 - 13.22

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24525456 - 13.33

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24481869 - 14

Many buyers @ 13 and some above. 13 flat doesn't look good.

I shall agree on that.. 13 ref seem like a quicksell to me. Even on trade.tf there are bots buying for 13.11 .

I think that 13 ref was a more accurate price for a while, but it seems that the price of keys is now going up again.

An abundance of proof provided makes this one an easy vote. Well done on all this work.

Upvoting because the proofs are enough evidence is the better way, but I think to know what you mean.

I earned 60% of my winnings with manipulation BUT I never manipulated anything! I just see it while it happens (statstics are all) and ... BANG! ;)

Same like the downvote for crate #30 some days ago. Crazy, no proofs. 31 seller on steam market + 4x on outpost and all other websites have empty stocks (scrap, tf2wh ... etc. etc.)

But thats a proof. Because there are no sellings. Well, if something is no more avaible or very low avaible, there are not many sellings anymore (just 1-2 a day on market and 1x on outpost a week) --- but that is no proof to downvote for an economy.

But well, thats the way ... ahha ... we like it :D

The heck with it, use your knowledge and you will win. This week is saved and safe for my fun-money :)

Seems all fine , upvote.

Excellent proof for a first suggestion, can't find anything wrong with it. upboat!

aggreed and upvoted

maybe the fact that there's evidence stating 13ref is kinda a quick sell?

I think that if that suggestion would suggest 13-13.33 range it would be great, but its not as good as 13 flat, plenty of buyers for 13, solds over 13, no need to change price now

looks like the cooldown, long voting period has made this suggestion go from upvote to downvote for me.

classifieds: http://puu.sh/efEIZ/d42ccb2f5f.png

tf2finance: http://puu.sh/efEvL/21d7ff0515.png

trade.tf: http://puu.sh/efF8z/d9a2433a0c.png

current range seems to be stable

Exactly. Prices seems to be going up and down in between the current range. During the last two days I have noticed that rather than going down it has been hinting to go up. Right now on classified there are very few available at 13.00 ref, most have been selling at 13.33 now and trade.tf supports that too.

http://gyazo.com/8c49cb43edd6954c77cbc94a8aa83c93

I would leave it as the current price unless there is a definite change which most likely is going to occur in the next one to two days or so.

24 hours passed since your suggestion -> your 13.33 "unsolds" which are not restocking by quickbuying @13 are selling out

Nice proof ! Go up :)

Can't upvote anymore, but I would if I could. Nice proof.

You can't even upvote this since it's been upgoated so much o.o thats new. good proof! I would upvote if I could ;^) first good key suggestion 2015

now you can, i dont know what happened

I still can't for some reason o.o its ok tho im guessing it has more than enuf support ;^)

Upvote, very nice amount of proof 1 of your links is invalid he said he is not selling keys for ref just buds http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24495524

...wow. Proof is solid. Upvote.

Solid, really? how about the proof that shows selling for 13 ref is a quick sell? x)

actually the proof is now out of date

Bought one for 12 today in server; http://i.imgur.com/QyroLag.png

"QyroLag.png" nice name

Very nicely done. Upvote!!!

Sold 60 keys @ 12.88 ref over the last few days. Didnt really think it was sold quick. Can screenshot if needed.

market has been changing over the last few days.

well i sold my two keys for 13.33 each really fast, i used the clasifieds of backpack.tf, it was really fast

Yup, seems like keys are on the rise again.

Good proof upvote

Good enough for me, upvoted.

"This vote has received too many positive votes."

GG, Backpack.tf, your pricing system is tooootally fair.

Its not going to get accepted as keys are still sold quickly at 13.33. They're rising again. Also even though you cannot vote anymore. It is up to the mods to accept the suggestion or not to avoid mundane or over the top suggestions. Keys are rising again. Thats all. Dislikes are welcome.

So what you are saying is that even if a suggestion is flooded with upvotes, it really comes down to a mod just saying "Derpaherp I don't like this suggestion, it is way too out there even though the community upvoted it. I'm gonna just deny it."

the community doesn't vote on *pricing* - we just vote on whether or not we find the proof convincing. the voting is taken under consideration by the admins, but it's not a democracy. backpack does price reporting, not price setting. ultimately an admin will make a call.

right now, despite all the positive votes i have a feeling this suggestion won't pass because it is no longer valid.

as of this posting tf2finance is up to 13.11, trade.tf is 13.11-13.33, classifieds have many keys selling at 13.11 and above. etc.

Yup. I gave buying keys a shot yesterday and today. There's a pretty steady stream of 13 ref sellers. I could probably provide 100 links at 13 ref just in the last 2 days. But you have to add them within ~30 seconds to get any and within ~15 seconds if they are only selling 1. Ended up buying a few at 13.33 ref out of convenience cause it was becoming a time drain. For an item like a key, it shouldn't be that big of a hassle. Range of 13-13.33 is probably spot on.

We have a system of checks and balances in much the same way our government does. Mods can't just make unilateral decisions to accept or reject suggestions. Votes and proof provided are essential arms that get taken into account on every suggestion. Mods go against the votes less than 5% of the time and when they do, they are required to provide commentary about exactly WHY they went against the votes. We pride ourselves in transparency.

Its not letting me vote yes

Seeing all the "nice proof, upvote" comments above makes me sad. Turns out very few people actually do check the proof. They just see a bunch of links and think that's good enough.

''This vote has recieved too many possitive votes''

Aka you crashed the system your suggestin is too good .

actually this happens on every [reasonable] key suggestion, up -or- down

this is GOOD proof!

Seller at 12.66!!!

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24544192

I can't upvote, but I approve this

Pretty much every single seller you have at 13.11-13.33 has completely sold out OR has raised their price to 13.66. As I stated above, there are still hundreds of trades going on at 13 ref but you have to add the person in under a minute to get any. For an item as common as keys, it shouldn't be such a huge hassle to buy at the suggested price. The current range is really probably spot on.