Suggestion: Refined Metal at $0.13

I just figured it wasn't important to include a critical piece of evidence for a suggestion for an item that literally dictates the value of every other item in the database

cool story bro

can we all just make up our own guidelines and rules while making suggestions now?

I figured that providing $.15 unsolds was redundant since I was already proving that $.13 doesn't sell. I threw some sellers in if you really think it helps.

But seriously, that passive aggression tho.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/28089-selling-earbudskeysref-for-2217513/

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24644989

same guy

gotta love the 'no-reputation-required' from http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/29238-keys-from-179-9refined-metal-from-0126-64no-reputation-required/

Recent 100 ref sale I did for $13 USD ($0.13 each): http://i.imgur.com/LPhJoGx.png

Keep in mind these are all bulk sales not singe ref sales

I would be a little surprised if any were up for individual sale.

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/549ee992b98d88f16e8b4901

I can see why you'd be against this.

When has anyone ever said that refined prices are too high?

Refined prices are too high.

There, I said it. It's total garbage and so, so wrong, but I said it.

RIP in pepperoni ref.

Singular sales would be better, but then again who sells 1 ref?

Why should I need sales for dropping the value of ref?

Don't need sales to drop a price, only sellers at lower than the current.

Ok, prove it then.

really it should be at .25 in my opinion

With an abundance of sellers at half of that? Nah.

but you can't just base it on sells base it on the economy as a whole only a fraction of people buy and sell ref for money

It worked the last 3 times I've made a ref suggestion. I'm sure I would have been told by now if the rule changed to something that made absolutely no sense.

No one cares about your opinion

Weapon drops mean more potential metal in the game.

Supply and Demand: Demand is the same, supply is higher = sellers at a lower price.

You can't even bull shit about the economy :/

Is 6 different people really enough proof to change the value of a currency?

It is when there are only 2 pages of sellers on outpost.

There is.

It's called: Have valid proof.

The price of this has been changing constantly for at least a year. Has it been destroyed? It's still here...

Wait, scratch off my stupid thinking from my last comment; UPVOTE due to recent downvotes/upvotes (not the refined metal)

you are making a suggestion on a currency for god sake, and you think providing 12 links of information is enough?

when doing an experiment statistically speaking, which in your case you are searching for prices you must use minimum of 30 samples.

in a case of a currency suggestion even 3 pages is not enough...

on previous suggestions of currencies people provided massive evidence list.

in your case is a *Huge* Down-vote.

Cheers!

Link me one ref suggestion that contained a 'massive evidence list'.

we are talking about currencies in general.

Since 100 pennies equals a dollar you cant bring the price of pennies down without bring down the dollar...

if the price of metal would keep declining the gap between the currencies would create an inflation. (since it is an economy)

the thing about this economy is even though it has a big inflation as of right now, you cant really feel it since it is a virtual game and it could not affect you in any way shape of form.

But if you look at it in the long run it could hurt the game itself.

coming back to the topic we were talking about..

you have 12 evidences in the list above

12 is not enough to determine a drastic change in currencies.

as I tried explaining you before you need minimum of 30.

why 30 you are asking?

I would love teaching statistics to you in another time but when you are taking a data-distortion, 30 would be the minimum number of samples you would have to take to relate a sample symmetrically by using formula's to an entire population (or in your case the entire amount of people that are selling ref for money)

Actually check the market for refined before saying things like that. And no, don't just scroll over the ref icon and click outpost, actually put refined metal at the left and real world money on the right of the search tab. You would realize how ridiculous you sound.

As for everything else, I'm not going to bother to address that because it's pretty much every comment complaining about the market ever.

I agree with you about the market statement.

But as for your ridiculous 12 links proof suggestion it is not enough to change the economy based on that poor data collection.

Don't try to blame your own lack evidence, and send me out on a journey to look for a change in prices.

This is your responsibility as the one making the suggestion to look for enough evidence to support your claim.

As of now a big Down-Vote until you support your claim with better evidence list.

Cheers

1. You can't just say a price suggestion is wrong because it would hurt the game. Backpack.tf is not here to manipulate prices for the good of the TF2 economy.

2. Where in the world did you get 30 from? And why are we supposed to believe that one number fits every situation?

Statistics lesson number 1:

When doing an experiment or in our case you're looking in price changes, statistically speaking you need a minimum of 30 samples so your new data-distribution would be symmetric just if the samples you have taken were not taken in a bias way.(explanation: when doing an experiment it is obvious you can't take a sample of each and everyone who sells ref for money so the number 30 was chosen to be the minimum because with a mathematical formula you can find out the results. [with a simple sample of over 30 instead of the entire market])

The more you know eh?

And in a situation where there are less than 30 samples available? :P

In a case where you have less than 30 samples it suggests that the sample is an entire population and you would just use the basic mean and standard deviation formula's instead of looking for the t-distortion.

I suggest you to take a course in statistics it would change your perspective on many things.

So 30 is not the one-size-fits-all number you say it is.

you gave an example that there is less than 30 correct?

Here i'll give you an example because you seem to fail to understand.

If you have a rare item of just 12 in existent and all of them are for sale all at once.

Is it possible for you to take a sample of more than 12 items? No you simply cannot because 12 is the amount of the entire existence of that item.

Now it looks like you misunderstood the "30" we're talking about..

when a statistical experiment is taken place in lets say a city, you can't just take a sample of each individual.

by taking more than 30 unbiased samples you can reach to a conclusion by using some formulas that is fairly similar and symmetric to the distribution of the entire population sample.

Capish?

I suppose that LanPepperz talked about your previuos currency suggestion. Just check the last post for 'massive evidence list' ;)

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/54bc7c7bba8d88b9738b4892

This is ref metal mate, one of the most important things in tf2 trade, you cannot change the price with, 1-2 proofs, you need lots, you have to add, or that won't work..

Good morning, this is a refined suggestion.

First time I do a comment here. I need to say, that I don't believe that's the actually price. Why? Because I think you can't base the value of the refs only in the buyers with real money, I think others items influence in the value, like the famous TF2 Keys and TOD, who have many automated bots who buy/sell keys. The people for example, on tf2outpost, mostly buy/sell TF2 Keys for 15-15.55 Ref, is 15-15.55 * 0.13 (your price) = $1.95 - $2.02 ?? Or maybe we can count a maximun of 16 ref * 0.13 = $2.08 ?? This isn't a paypal buy, it's a change item x item, I think the price of the TF2 Key in refs has to be like $2.25 - $2.35 (like the market, more or less), so $0.15 for each Ref is working at the moment. 15-15.55 * 0.15 = $2.25 - $2.3325

Maybe I'm a noob haha, but I don't think that's the real price of the ref AT THE MOMENT.

Sorry for my regular (or bad) english and please, note that I try to help, not to disturb. Regards

You dont follow the market vavle for items at all. That not how you price it and keys are worth around 1.85-2dollars because of paypal so price is asking make is fine because .13 x 15.33 = 1.99dollars and again that not how vavle thing but just saying that you are wrong about how it to low or something like that

I understand. But I don't agree with this, I don't buy for paypal, buy items for paypal is illegal after all (That I understand, or is legal?). Anyways, I don't see we need a change, but ok, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that. Anyways, we'll see the final decision.

I agree on we will see what happen but again lot people sell item throught paypal or webmoney so its use as a price. How do you think got price of refine in first place because of paypal and webmoney. Personally I think price should change because it little bit to high right now when keys are raising and are around 15.33 so again I hope you have good day <3

Edit: I understand. I always considerer a TF2 Key $2.25 - 2.35, maximun $2.49 because I don't buy with paypal/webmoney, but I think I understand.

BUT I need to know, in the case of Sack of Gems, In case to sell for Refs, that means need to count steam fees? Like: 1 Sack = $0.65 (with fees $0.58) actually, so $0.58 / 0.13 = 4.44 Ref ? That's right ? Or how this works? :c

I actually agree that refined should not be priced by real-money trades but unfortunately that is how this site works.

Yeah, a lot of people are for that change. Polar spoke to one of the developers and apparently since everything is priced based on the value of ref, the entire system would have to be reworked and it would be -for a lack of better words- really hard.

I realize that. I assume they didn't believe currencies would undergo such drastic fluctuations when they designed the system and thought basing it in the lowest denominator for currency exchanges would be the safest way to go. I hope they do go and rework the system one day tho, the current one is flawed. Refined is dragging everything down and is definitely not the go-to point when it comes to real life money conversions.

I agree with that c:

So it is better to make people THINK they have a lot of money when in, actuality, the market says they dont?

Sir, that is called "fraud". By keeping price up to date, people know the exact value of their bp in relation to the current state of the market and economy. Otherwise, people would have a misconception of how much their bp is really worth.

Good for me i sold my items.. im surrounded by nerds who want to lower their items value.. very smart lol

This isn't the place for you to brag on cashing out. In that time, you accrued trust problems as well as cautions. And honestly, i cant believe that someone with your bp got screwed that bad. Think about others who actually lose a sizeable amount of money but DONT have to complain.

Now, if you are done trading, please leave because honestly, we are better off without your "opinion".

7days later waiting from a response from a mod, although they have the time to warn people on this exact price suggestion.....

There's not much proof to begin with, so it's nearly impossible to find actual sales.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24597302 - but it seems like there's a sale here recently at 0.15.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23552480 - 1 ref? lol?

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/18406088 - seems like a few interested buyers at 0.14

I would give this a range of 13-15. It's always better to side with caution when it's difficult to find proof. Just because it's hard to find, doesn't mean it isn't happening. At a quick glance, it appears that 14-15 may still be happening.