Suggestion: Mann Co. Supply Crate Key at 15.33–16 ref

This dude decided to sell a key for 25 ref, because he say, that keys will raise and there's people, who say, that he understand the mean of the key price, check it out:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24955724

___________________________________________________________________________

As you can see, many of the keys from the sellers are also buying the keys again for more then the voted 15.33 ref price. And as my picture proved, then there are sellers, who also buy keys up to 16 refined, but i already sold the key so he bought it from an other trader!

Anyways. The suggested price is also overpaid by some sellers on the market, as you can see they go up to 17 and 18 refined for each key, which is long trip from the current value of 1 key.

OBS: These prices are just the half of the OP site and there are many more sellers and buyers, but if you think i need more proof, let me know, thx and plz hold a good tone!

Cooldown is still in effect.

Cooldown doesn't exist anymore if I remember correctly

It clearly says posted 3 days ago.

Cooldown is DEFINITELY still in effect. Check the backpack.tf forums.

What exactly IS cooldown? I've honestly only heard that used a couple times before.

This is still not a forum and people don't answer questions here that nothing with the suggestion to do have! Leave or give a com. on the suggestion! Thx.

My apologies.

I believe the cool down is what bp.tf put in place to "slow down" keys and buds rising and dropping rapidly, so the prices more represent the economy's overall trend.

Basically, bp.tf is trying to make it so they don't manipulate the prices.

That's very helpful, thank you.

A-Cooldown

B-Don't Use sellers to raise a price

agreed. Don't use sellers to raise a price. Just because they are selling, doesn't mean that people are buying. Plus, there are still a lot of sellers in bp.tf willing to sell for 15.33. Use the watch list feature and it will show you. You might not be able to see the 15.33 ones just because they sell very quickly and the listing is immediately removed

The 15.33 ref is being sold quick? Yeah, that might be correct, because people find it "cheap", because the sellers for 15.33 ref are only a few, so they want to buy em fast. Anyways i wrote a post on the botton, check it out and let me know what you think then?

Should keys be taken as cheap for 15.33 ref, when that's the voted price? I don't think so. Therefore i want the keys to raise in price.

If its being sold quickly that means it is a quicksell. Also there are many buyers at 15.66 (http://www.trade.tf/mybots/buyers/Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key) which is the main reason people buy 15.33 ref keys (people that wanna make dat 1 rec profit!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

every price on keys is a quicksell try 15.66 they sell as fast as 15.33 doesn;t really matter to those that want to buy a key if they pay 1 rec more or less.

well, and isnt that 15.33 quickselling which means it shouldnt be valid in price voting? like i can sell every hour a key for 2 refs, but its not reason to add it in range. but i agree, sellers dont matter, solds do. but i know people are buying it for 16 refs (already sold few myself).

It isn't a quicksell at 15.33, but people think its quicksell? Do the price don't need to change then? It's the normal price, but people are very quick when 15.33 ref sellers are released on the market, because almost any1 is seller for above the 15.33 refs. Anyways, i take it into my range, because you still can find sellers for both 15.33 ref and 16 ref and in the middlerange, so it's not a unvalid range. Anyways, you cant compare 2 ref with the 15.33 ref which is also the price right now, of cource all would buy for 2 ref, that was years ago, that price was on keys, you better give an other example or just keep it on mind. Maybe you have a message, but yeah, you can still find sellers range on 15.33 ref, so that is probably why i think it's a good range as well :O

It could be nice if you would post the proof of your sales for 16 ref here, thx!

If i remember, the cooldown was removed already, there isnt any policy on cooldown (buds went down a key a day for three days, where the hell was THAT cooldown?)

You have a problem with reading timestamps, don't you?

Only sellers... Why hasn't this suggestion been closed yet??? and your price range is UG - LY

btw, cool down is still in effect :P

Only sellers? You better look at the post twice :))

The 'look' of the range doesn't matter.

Maybe you have a point with all that proof, but people will always sell keys for higher. That's just profit.

People are willing to pay the increased though, so the price rises.

The 15.33 sellers on OP had adds in about 2 hours of the posting, suggesting 15.33 might be a quicksell.

You also have buyers at a higher price, and in conjunction with the point above, imo 15.33 shouldn't be included in the range.

Yeah, you surely understand my outsending message to all the people. With the sellers i show, that 15.33 ref is less than the 16 refs sellers and might be taken as "quicksell", but still you can find sellers for both 15.33 ref and 16 ref sellers, which is still ACTIVE. Therefore i make it 15.33 - 16 ref, which is a fair and good range for currently buyers and sellers ranges.

Quicksellers shouldn't be included in a price range...

I've been buying keys at 15 refined a few times a day for the last few days. And these examples are just for NORMAL mannco keys. I've got a handful more of other TF2 keys (eotl, community, robo, and so on) I've bought for 15 refined in the last few days.

Examples:

http://i.imgur.com/wr3NLCu.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/R1mVBpx.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/V6OtTc2.png?1

http://i.imgur.com/29onOxY.png?1

It's too soon for a price bump. Buyers and sellers are just advertisements, actual trades are more valuable info.

Actual trades? Well. Some1 here is not good at reading or clicking up the post, before blaming me. Disagree. Too little evidence as well!

keys clearly going up, meanwhile someone desperately claiming keys are crashing on classifieds :/

isn't cooldown in effect?

Yep,still some more hours to go.

Ugh, dat range.

Can someone explain to me please why are keys increasing back up again

If anyone dont mind

inflation mah boy

2 of 16 buyers are not buying anymore. The third buyer was only buying 3, now only buying 1 but has been unactive for since the listing was opened.

No recorded sales for 16 ref. Bookmarks don't mean anything, because those listings are old and bookmarks have surely been gained throughout the duration of the listing.

No recorded sales for 15.88 or 15.77 either, your buyers are the only valid thing so far. You have 1 buyer at 15.77

You stated "there's almost no sellers on bp.tf alone selling a single key for 15.33 ref" And since you have plenty buyers over 15.33, why include it in the range?

To sum up, the range is inappropriate and/or the proof for suggested range is insufficient.

edit: I don't think cooldown applies, since the middle of the range is 15.66, and cooldown applies for changes smaller than 0.33.

Updated. Look at my proof in the middle post and on the bottom, thank you!

In 22 hours I've bought 27 keys at 15.33 or less.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25059093

Heres some:

http://i.imgur.com/RwANRNZ.png

http://i.imgur.com/Ov1zGHq.png

http://i.imgur.com/M3kI6tT.png

http://i.imgur.com/9ePkthD.png

http://i.imgur.com/IW7ywwe.png

http://i.imgur.com/Rjj8rwJ.png

http://i.imgur.com/WvMjzc1.png

http://i.imgur.com/LGbFUMr.png

http://i.imgur.com/BJHxUeR.png

http://i.imgur.com/1sb1O6l.png

http://i.imgur.com/XCtHpQ3.png

On your OP post, then you buy for 15.33 ref ea, updated. Also my range is from 15.33-16 ref and 15.33 ref is included in the range, but if you have sold some for less, then it's fair, but 15.33 ref is a part of the voted range.

only 3 buyers at 16 ref?

Updated. Look at the middle post from me and on the buttom as well. Thx.

fair enough

Well. People is accusing me for using "sellers" to make it look like there's much proof to change price? Well. That's not why i do it!

Basically, the amount of sellers with a price from 15.66 and up to 16 ref is many more then the sellers for 15.33 ref, because people know that they can get that valued ref for prices to 16 ref, bc people know it's being more worth later. Also you say, that bookmarks isn't usable, well, on some of the sellers pages, also on the 16 ref sellers, you can see, that they ONLY sell keys and people bookmark to show that they might buy it later or think about it and don't blame me for that, cause it's new and updated prices and dates on the posts of the sellers!

Anyways. Here is some more buyers.

15.55:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25066750

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25053933

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24696862

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/23954284

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25079987

15.66:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25078089

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25042878

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25081721

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25080561

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25071435

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25075824

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25079785

15.77:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24805077

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24969713

16:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24877872

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25081825

19 ref buyer? Yeah, look at this! (if you take for each key)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25079124

Well. I still not checked the hole OP site and this was just some i found on the site. If you need more proff, let me know, cause there's more buyers out there!

I want to let you know 1 thing. My range is 15.33-16 ref, actually because i know, that there is maybe many sellers for 15.33 ref, but more for 16 ref and that make it look like the range will be going up. Also i want to show with the sellers, that there is more sellers near the 16 ref range than the 15.33 ref range and the buyers follow this point as well. Therefore i think it's still a fair range, because you can find sellers for both 15.33 and 16 ref and people in the middlerange. Up here is some more buyers, comment below what you think and why? More proof? Give a call! Thx and keep the good tone in your opinion!

I stated that the bookmarks don't mean anything because those trade listings are all several weeks if not months old, and could have been bookmarked several weeks ago, when the prices of a particular buyer were different. You can't show when those bookmarks were gained unless if the number of bookmarks changed since you have posted this suggestion.

You are right in the point, that some (not all?) are old and also months on some, but they are bumped and updated with stuff actually also from today. But in i totally disagree, that bookmarks don't work, why would you bookmark a trade if you don't find it interesting?

Also you can go to some of the pages with bookmarks noted and you will see, that there's some more bookmarks on some of the posts.

Example:

I create a trade listing now: buying keys at 16 ref. Lots of people bookmark my trade, because it's a good offer.

Assume 1 month from now keys are 17 ref, and I am buying for 16.66. Very little people or nobody will bookmark my trade, but I will still have bookmarks from 1 month ago because people are mostly lazy and don't remove bookmarks, but they are irrelevant to the current offer of 16.66.

That is correct man! Anyways. I have checked some of the sellers earlier after i posted this suggestion and there have come more bookmarks on both kind of sellers posts, who want to gain profit or just sell keys as well. If they are updated, as i checked, then they are good for proof as well. #ThumbsUp

Basically i updated some of those. The 19 ref for each key buyer is now bought to this dude, so there've been sold keys for 19 ref each as well (5 piece). Updated info. Also some of the others have solds as well!

Now that is what I want to see

Should i upvote or downvote?

You should Upvote :)

Man, fuck cooldown. Upvoted

+ how many classifieds above 15.33

Any moderators here to close that item voting since cooldown and since sellers shouldnt be used to raise price? Or they have other interest here...?

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2620-key-cooldown-guidelines-read-before-making-key-suggestions/?p=27469

the change in price is 0.33 refined, cooldown does not apply

every single key price suggestion is for 0.33. so that means that there is a crack in the rules here.

current price is 15-15.33

which was suggested from 15-15.22

there was 0.06 change in price

yet smaller than 0.33. yet can be voted again. every time after a vote ends. so im right.

-Unless the price has been stable for 7+ days and only a small change is needed.

you aren't right

accepted 4 days ago

accepted 12 days ago

8 days for a 0.06 change which fits the rules. stop this conspiracy stuff

You're wrong.

http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2620-key-cooldown-guidelines-read-before-making-key-suggestions/

In these ways:

It's been 3 days and it's nearly passed the 7 day mark.

Even if it hasn't passed 7 days the price is changing by more than 0.33.

You should really go and read my text in the middle, explaining why i use sellers on my post, before blaming me for the proof. @stefanos13

Don't worry about him, he spams every key suggestion.

Spams he says... Telling something that's not compatible with your opinion is spamming right?I already analyzed what you wrote me above , so if you want to write me something , first read then reply with something new.

Basically, just tell something irrelevant for this suggestion, spam discuss and other things don't care here, this isn't a forum guys!! Anyways. I hope you understand. Stop taking this discuss in longer range, thx!

Look at http://trade.tf/

buyers for 15.66 ref

Thx for help! #Like

Updated. Went to 15.77 ref. Increases.

upvote nice prof

Thank you mister! :)

The only way keys can rise is if people are buying keys for higher, and people sold keys for higher. Backpack.tf is a Guideline, not a "this is the exact price for this item and it can only be this price". Refined goes down. Refined is used to buy keys. Keys go up. Keys are used to buy buds, and buds are going down. The economy is not dying, please do not spam, and good day.

"Please do not spam"

>Posted more then 1 comment on this entire post until now.

As for keys, that's just an opinion. I dunno why you have to go out of your way to somehow prove I'm wrong or something, jeez. The trading economy might not be dying but shit it sure affects me who purchases from the store right?

I need some proof on the 15.88 ref buyers, so here is some buyers.

15.88:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25106489

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25086758

16:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/19515838 - Very old post, but still updated and re-bumped.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20240563 - Same.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25086193 - Just 1 day ago posted

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24992955

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/20635299

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25101633 - 17 hours ago posted

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/24999528

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25098879

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25016791

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25040655 - Overpay by 0.4 ref acording to 16 ref (Paying 16.4 ref in items)

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25052355

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25024231

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25018438

There is some more and updated + pretty new posts on some. That is some more proof here to make it final. I guess i have enough proof yet, but if you think i need more i can go and find more buyers. Btw these are only buyers!! Anyways. Note that i need more proof if you feel that i need that. Thx.

A - Don't forget cool down

B - even though you're using sellers/buyers and think that that's enough only solds can be used because it indicates that other want to buy keys at that price which support your thought on the price. With your sellers your just showing what those people want to sell their keys and not showing the reason why you think the price should be 15.33 - 16 Ref.

First of all, you better read the hole suggestion, very carefully. I know, that solds is the point of it, but when i have so many buyers for over 15.33 ref and a few on the 15.33 ref, then it is pretty much a good evidence, since i have lots of proof. Well. Anyways, the buyers follows the sellers and with the sellers i prove, that they keep increasing and people will follow those prices to get a chance to buy keys. Anyways, do you really want me to put some solds on here? Thx.

Btw, you won't see suggestions on the latest key suggestions with only solds, some of mine is sold as well, but they do the buy/sell-thing as just a single seller, so when they get ref, they buy keys and the post wouldn't be closed, so yeah, i also have solds buyers/sellers here. Checked that of cource!! The proof is still not enough?

The purpose of pricing is not to be convenient for everyone. It's based on what people will buy and sell. As the game gets older, there is more ref, making it worth less. To counter this inflation, keys cost more ref.

U got my words there Numinex, thank you anyways!

You're forgetting to average out the amount of ref with players. More players and more ref makes it stable.

Ref is created hundreds of times more than players join. And Currency doesnt have to be distributed equally amongst all players.

The number of players is fairly irrelevant.

More ref -> Key price goes up. Thats all.

First of all you better write in normal language, so any person around here can understand you mean of the opinion. Second, then the keys are based on the buyers and sellers as well, so basically all the comments for people "crying" because it's too high, then thank the buyers and sellers, because they choose the price and we make the price official, so you have something to head for, so all price ranges for all buyers and sellers are the same. Btw, some of your text is irrelevant info for this suggestion, thx!

Unfortunately, raising the price of keys will only make people sell it for even more, driving up the price again. We need to keep the prices as low as possible, don´t feed the greedy traders.

Well. I know what kind of business you're out to be in. Well. Can you explain to me, why would we have a key price of 15.33 ref, when sellers AND buyers both have a range for even more than 15.33 ref and up to 16 ref? Then 15.33 ref would be a totally wrong price. Anyways, the buyers and sellers as well rate the price by sales and buys and people make it happen to a official range.

If you go get some proof to stop the rise, go ahead.

Currently your words be nothing.

You can SAY that it should be lowered but it's all about demand. The key prices are getting higher because the ref prices are getting lower (due to the amount of ref everyone has). Not also that, but people will always overpay a little and therefore more people will get on top of that idea and cause a change reaction until it is now it's official price. But hey, it's all about finding evidence. Where not trying to hurt the economy, where just showing what it is by its state of form.

This price is already outdated.

Easy upvote bot are buying at 15.66 Easily.

Does this make big of a change? i've seen people sell for 15 ref, although they are not everywere.

He can't find sellers at under 15.33 because they are all sold out or sell the second they are posted because someone wants to buy it. That is why the price of keys to ref is raising, there is a demand for keys resulting in less low selling keys. If you went out and tried to buy a key for 15 ref I'd say it would take you a good 24 hours of non stop trading, and that's only if you get lucky. So this suggestion accurately represents the market for keys at the moment

Cooldown is still in effect +1

15.33 ref key, please go for a try to buy. you will never fast enough to get one.

It's been longer than 7 days, cooldown isn't in effect.

why? so that you can buy one and sell for more? it's still the same if it rises.

As one of those 16 ref sellers when backpack listed 15.33, I've been getting buyers slowly, but surely, picking up more recently with how keys are at the top end in the steam community market as well

To say that no one can change the price for a week after a change is pretty foolish, markets can change a lot faster than that

I really would like to try to make a "constructive" comment, but I can't, I'm too stupid.

Also the rise of the key prices is seen as a bad thing just because buyers will have to pay more, implying the fact to get more weapons to craft some metal...