- Forums
-
Pricing
- Community Pricing
- Pricegrid
- Spreadsheet
- Browse Suggestions
- Latest Changes
- Unusual Pricelist
- Browse by Item
- Browse by Effect
- Steam Community Market
- Market Pricelist
-
Trading
- Classifieds
- Classified Listings
- Utilities
- Calculator
- Premium Search
- Statistics
Gottem bois.
2 sales. 1 usable sale.
1st sale:
Unboxer sold to heartLyss for 376,50 Euro SCM.
Proof:
http://i.imgur.com/tJs6zUd.png (Hat in heartLyss backpack, showing the date when it will be tradeable, Nov 26th)
http://i.imgur.com/DRFuAGS.png (Sale on SCM, Nov 20th 1 AM)
SCM bought hats are untradeable for 1 week, it's the only unusual Law SCM sale that fits exactly into the window of 1 week.
Backstory and why this is a outlier:
I offered the original unboxer my Nebula Cpt. Space Mann. I told him how much it is worth. He insisted on having ~400$ SCM money rather than 1200+ $ in unusuals. He listed the hat for the amount I named above, knowing my offer was worth over 3 times as much. Not even going to convert 376,50 Euro into keys, sale not usable.
2nd sale:
heartLyss sold to me for my Nebula Cpt. Space Mann.
Proof:
My Inventory history...
http://i.imgur.com/o4Z6VJT.png
http://i.imgur.com/IKPQj4j.png
Nebula Cpt Space Mann is 607,5. Price is new enough to use it.
607,5 x 0,9 = 546,75
Rounding that to 547
Not like that price means anything, as anyone who wants to pry that from me should come to me with no less than 900 pure.
Poor unboxer :L
wasn't the law offered on your space mann?
Nope. The unboxer of the Law turned my hat down for the simple reason that he "hates the look of it". A few days later he told me he was going to list it on the SCM for around 400 Euro. I literally begged him to take my Space Mann instead, he said no. I met heartLyss on the FirePowered trade server later the same day and saw him wear the Law. Immediately offered him my Space Mann, he agreed, I added him, and now, one week later, the trade happened.
alright, I remember you asking about the law vs the space-mann on the forums so I figured you got offered it
this looks good then
Wouldn't it be good to round it to make a cleaner number? It's not necessarily wrong nor does it take away from the fact that it is a good suggestion but its more advisable to at least round to a 5 if its this high. Again, you don't have to resuggest, its just my OCD playing up. If you care about me and all the other frequent voters and suggesters who have OCD's mental health, you'll resuggest at 550 :3
I dont know, man. Seen lots of hats being priced at all kinds of numbers and I, personally, like to be rather exact with prices. But if mods/ whoever is approving suggestions closes this because of that I'll gladly resuggest.
"Exact", problem is, no price is exact, overpay isn't exact. So 547 isn't exact either. But you don't have to resuggest just for rounding.
Well, heartlyss is selling the space mann for 500 keys pure which means he/she wouldn't have valued this hat more than 500. I would probably put this at 500 flat.
I'm not really sure how someone trying to (quick-?)sell something for less than a pretty much up to date price can influence the price this item was actually sold for... If I would want to sell this hat for 900 keys pure, does that mean I should make a suggestion at 900? Edit. heartLyss even put into the description of the sale that the 500 pure price is a quicksell. So yea, no.
Heartlyss clearly doesn't value it more than 500 pure. This can't be valued more than that. Our prices are the pure prices of items. As is illustrated here, people are usually willing to take more than 10% off their unusual price for pure offers.
Look, I don't know what you are trying to proove here. I don't give a **** what heartLyss values the Space Mann, the Law or any other hat at. He is QUICKSELLING the Space Mann for 500 keys ONLY PURE. That is in all-caps on their trade. Talking to heartLyss 3 days ago he gave the Law an easy 700-800 keys of worth. I give it an easy 900 keys of worth. Both that has NO influence on the pricing of this hat, unless the Law sells again, which I can assure you it won't anytime soon. If you wanna resuggest the Nebula Cpt Space Mann based on heartLyss trying to quicksell his for 500 pure then go ahead, but that ain't how this works, even for someone with an orange name. Even if heartLyss sells his for 500 pure that is a quicksell, and as such not usable in suggestions. I don't know what your point is, man. We have 1 usable sale, the Space Manns price is not outdated.
Independently of what Polar says, which you are free to agree/disagree with, it's worth noting that the word "quicksale" in a trade means nothing unless the item does sell quickly (which hasn't happened here yet). The same goes with any personal value above the real value of the sale, they are useless in suggestions.
The thing here is that, in some cases, if the seller is willing to go lower in pure, then the value of the sale should be capped at that pure number (because backpack.tf prices are supposed to be pure values). What i think Polar tries to point out here, is that if heartLyss traded the Law for the SpaceMann, and then tried to sell the SpaceMann for 500 keys, he would have taken exactly that value (or even a bit lower) for the Law, which is some kind of B/O cap.
I hope that clears things up, and sorry if i look like an intruder here.
I see a lot of "if" and "would have" here. If heartLyss wants to get rid of the Cpt. Space Mann, because that is what trying to quicksell something means, and thinks that 500 keys pure is low enough to sell the hat relatively fast that has nothing to do with the sale between him and me. Quickselling a hat at these prices can take 4-5 weeks because not everyone is a Bobsplosion who pulls 1000$ in keys out of his pocket like a rabbit out of the hat, or just because someone is unsure if he really wants to spend that much money. We could now discuss the meaning of the word "quicksell" but that ain't going anywhere. Maybe heartLyss needs fast pure for anything, maybe he wants to buy a new car or furniture (I mean, if we are assuming things why not go wild right away), maybe he's just using this as a strategy to look what pure offers he could get in general... I dont know, you dont know, I have facts, you assume. There is 10 Nebula Cpt Space Mann hats out there, one looking for 800 pure keys/ 900 keys in unusuals.... Should I resuggest the Law at that? He would probably take 700 pure, if I think about it. So should I resuggest at the middle of 500 and 700, 600? Maybe, probably heartLyss would have taken 500 pure, sweet lord, who would not take a deal like that... But that does not mean anything for this suggestion. A sale happened, If we go with your senseless B/O cap "because someone could have offered an exraordinary amount of pure" you could bring down each and every single unusual hats value by around 10%-30%. If you want to go on that journey, Polar or King, have a nice time. But don't start it here. Or maybe you want to establish a rule that unusual suggestions based on "for sale" listings can now get accepted?
The B/O cap is a rule on unusual suggestions, some people agree with it and others don't. Not like me (just another guy who uses this website and makes suggestions once in a while) or you can change it. In my point of view, it makes sense as it's a way to account for overpay, which in most cases isn't just 10%.
What do we have here: The Law was offered and sold for the Space Mann. The new Space Mann owner starts selling it for 500 keys pure right after acquiring it (the classifieds listing was created ~24 hours ago, your trade happened right before). The fact that it was put on the market for that amount (lower than the updated price of the Space Mann) immediately after the sale it's an indication that heartLyss expected that amount (or even less, but that can't be proven) for the unpriced Law. Otherwise, who does an 1:1 unusual trade when you expect to sell it for pure? The only way someone does that is when the other item you are acquiring is either a) worth more or b) easier to sell for the amount you expect to receive. In both cases, the 500 key number could be translated as the pure B/O on the Law because, again, it was put on the market right after acquiring it (not a week or month after, when circumstances can change).
And finally, personal values of hats over market/backpack/real price can't be used as proof. If we did use them, we would have the Aces High Dread Knot priced at 5000+ keys, because you know, owners could say it's the best hat ever and it's worth that much. What can be used as proof is a pure B/O below sale price after overpay, which is the main "problem" here.
Anyways, my opinion is that the difference between 500 and 550 isn't big and shouldn't be a problem, but as i said before, i'm just a random guy who likes to discuss things.
Yawn! So...
(Wait, how can you even comment on this, your backpack value is way too low, anyways...)
Thanks for little info about the B/O cap, that's actually new to me, but I'm not going to bother with it. The usual rule is to take a unusual price x 0,9, which I did. If you wanna change that, suggest it to a mod or whatever.
First block, nonesense.
Then, the Law was not offered on anything. I offered my Space Mann on the Law, not the other way around. And I can ignore your entire wall of text with one sentence:
I met heartLyss on the Firepowered trade server 1 week ago, merely minutes after he bought the Law from the SCM and I immediately offered him my Cpt. Space Mann, knowing that there would be a 1 week waiting period for me. heartLyss had literally a whole week to think about the deal before it would go through. 1 week to think what he would do with the Space Mann, because I immediately confirmed that I will not step back from my offer. And looking at his backpack you got to be no genius to tell he knows what he is doing, talking about unusual trading. Maybe he figured no better offer would come along in the next time looking how there is not too many people willing to buy the less liked Skulls (Stormy 13th hour, Misty Skull, sometimes Secret to Everybody) but that is pure speculation again... and of no matter at all. I know what Im talking about when it comes to (god tier) Moon and Skull hats.
So... second block, nonesense.
Thanks for repeating what i told you above, really. And no, I am sorry, but a B/O is not proof, and if it is for some craft hats or promos (oh lordy) then still, by a long shot, not for rare items worth a few hundreds of dollars like this hat. A B/O, or like in this case a quicksell price can have hundreds of different reasons to be as high or low as it is. Reasons you don't know and I don't know, and for that matter we should not let our fantasy go too far.
Third block, nonesense.
Oh well, i wrote everything with all respect i could and then you come out with this.
a) My backpack value is high enough to comment on this because there is something called "multiplier", which gives you more points based on your votes/suggestions. I don't know what my backpack value has to do with this, so if that was some kind of insult or something, i don't care really. Many suggesters have low backpack values and do INCREDIBLE jobs on suggestions and know better than you or me. Backpack value =/= knowledge.
b) My bad, i said the Law was offered on the Space Mann when i actually meant the other way (yeah, i had read your answer to Kevin above). That can happen when i write a wall of text and go back and forward correcting things. Anyways, it doesn't matter. My point is still there either way.
c) I tried to give an explanation of why the B/O cap applies in cases similar to this. If you don't want to read it, then it's up to you. Proof and rules >>>>> your opinion. A B/O is proof in some cases. You should actually read the unusual suggestion guide here if you don't believe me: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/6033-guide-for-unusual-price-suggestions/ . Whether mods consider 550 close to 500 or not is up to them. As i said, i think a change wouldn't really be necessary.
And i end this here. I just wanted to help and it almost turned into a flame war. It's Randy's Circling Logo Crone's suggestion all over again. I should stay quiet.
"Quickselling a hat at these prices can take 4-5 weeks"
Wrong, quicksell = less than a week. If it takes longer then its not a quicksell, than its a realistic pure value that you can get for a hat in a reasonable amount of time and perfectly fine to use in a suggestion.
Of course traders see everything as a quicksell that is less than a normal buyout and labelled with the word quicksell, no matter how long it takes, but that's not how bp.tf treats it, since bp.tf is after pure values of hats. Anyways just wanted to clear that up.
Also again, you can only lower the price with b/os, not making it higher. The sale is 550 keys, or capped at a 500 key b/o. If he would have taken 700 pure for the law then the price is 550. If he would have taken 500 then the price is 500.
So, how are we going to figure that out, hm? Want to investigate further, Inspector, interview heartLyss possibly? Wait a week to see if he gets his Quicksell price? Or just simply accept the facts that I put down in an appropriate manner?
You can discuss that with polar. :)
Sweet jesus, and I thought our german bureaucracies were the worst.
Why, I just pointed out some mistakes in things you said, polar is the one who brought the 500 key thing up, I can see where he is coming from, but now he is the one who should handle the suggestion or finish the argument at least.^^
If this is the case, why is it required to wait a month for hats above 100 keys in value to drop based on a BO? That rule is to ensure it's not a qs price, but it's set at ~25 keys/week, not 1 week for any and all price points.
Based on the rules as stated, the trade would need to be up for a month to consider that a valid price.
The trade must have a reasonable time to mature (and must be reasonably bumped). What is reasonable varies from hat to hat. A good rule of thumb is to go by roughly 25 keys per week. So a trade for a hat <25 keys in value must be up for at least a week. A trade for a hat <50 keys must be up for at least 2 weeks. A trade for a hat <75 keys must be up for at least 3 weeks. For all other hats, the trade must be up for at least a month in order to price them based off the b/o.
That's a completely different rule made a for a completely different reason. We can discuss that in the forum thread that contains that rule if you wish. The logic here is fairly straightforward. Heartlyss sells a hat for another hat and sells the new hat for 500 keys. It makes no sense to value either hat more than 500 keys because he / she clearly didn't value it more in PURE themselves. They can say it can sell for 700 or 800 or whatever in unusuals and no one is disputing that. But that just further emphasizes the fact that 10% overpay is inadequate, especially on hats of this tier. On high tiers, the pure values on items are usually much more than 10% off what it can sell for in unusuals and the point of the site is to try to get as close to the pure value as possible.
Simply, what I'm saying is that if someone offered heartlyss 500 keys pure for the law, he/she would have taken that over the law offer. But it's fine. This is close enough. If someone wishes to counter at 500 flat, I have no problem.
Put it to the test. Asked heartLyss why the 500 keys Space Mann quicksell and what he values the Law at. Screenshot as proof. Had to black out a few words, graphic language ;). http://i.imgur.com/uDI8W9e.png
So much for that.
Yeah no one's not gonna make you resuggest because you didn't round your number, its just me being picky :')