Price Suggestion
Refined Metal
Submitted by Salvage
~$0.03
Unique Refined Metal
360 votes up
377 votes down
Advertisement
Related Suggestions

This suggestion was accepted by polar.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

      Marketplace.tf supports :)

        How do sales at 0.12 support 0.09 - 0.10?

          Maybe they where gathering proof and stumbled upon it and decided to include it for the sake of disclosing it.

            It DID support, apparently it no longer does

              It hasn't been under 0.12 in weeks, so I don't know what you saw

                That is incorrect, marketplace.tf did infact support this: https://marketplace.tf/itemstats?sku=5002;6


                Doesn't matter either way as it is completely invalid to use as proof.

                  Ik it did 2 or 3 weeks ago, but that was way before you made the suggestion.


                  Some more proof

                  Refined is selling for 0.10 on shop.tf anyone can sell there, so it should be usable

                  https://shop.tf/

                  http://imgur.com/a/tdufD

                    0.10 is in the range, thanks for providing additional proof.

                    i wouldn't say it's totally invalid proof. The sales over the last month show more have sold at 12 cents than at 9 cents. .09 seems like a weak value that I don't see as the common purchase point. Obscure trade sites + somewhat inactive sellers aside... 10 seems more common with people quite willing to pay up to 12. I personally do not see the issue with using marketplace.tf as a good reference for cash transactions. It's used in pricing unusuals with a range based on sales, it is secure, commonly used (even more so now with the paypal options/protection), and has good turnover rates. I would even go as far to say it is the cash version of scm now(hopefully that isn't construed as advertising, just my opinion based on personal experience and hearing a lot more traders saying they use it that frequent my trade community). Even places like opskins have no sellers under 10 cents that i've seen.

                    gotta go with the downvoters on this.

                      It has been discussed often enough, Marketplace.tf is COMPLETELY unusable, no matter what, ref has a small market and therefor few sellers are sufficiant, this is more than enough proof to justify the range, 0.09 flat might even be possible later.

                        "As opposed to most items, I would say the quanity here should refer to the sales volume rather than to the amount of buyers/sellers, so in that essence Im not against determining a common trading point based on marketplace if they embody the largest part of the sales volume, as long as the fees are taken into consideration (similar to how in the financial statements of wholesalers and retailers, the displayed value of their goods is excluding value added tax, as that displays the selling value of their products to them, even though a customer pays more for them)" - Foamy 2016 #mod that recognizes trade principles

                          Foamy himself even said that he doesn't handle suggestions involving real world money as he has no experience in them, even Brad himself is against using marketplace. This argument has been brought up before and it has been decided, I'm done here.

                            Ignoring 49,230 sales in the last month doesn't make any sense at all. Clearly is one of the largest volume cash trading options available and commonly used. It needs to be taken into consideration. I'm not saying that 12 cents should be in the range (even though it is obvious people are quite willing to pay that), but rather offer it as a counter arguement to 3-400 being available for 9 cents.

                          I'm just going to clarify something here, you're making the assumption of marketplace being COMPLETELY unusable because of polar's comment here right? https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5767bd69c4404536fb7accec

                          That suggestion was closed not because marketplace was the source of proof, but because it was the ONLY source of proof for that, therefore not justifying a raise. It can still be used accordingly to support or counter a suggestion, just not as your MAIN source of proof.

                          I'm not confirming the validity of this suggestion with this comment as I won't be handling it, but I thought I had to make that clear.

                            Even if he doesn't directly deny the usage of Marketplace.tf as proof in that suggestion, there are still multiple reasons as to why it shouldn't be usable, besides that, there is nothing that supports the sales (@0.12$) that happen on marketplace anyways, there are not even sellers attempting to sell for 0.12$, the sales @0.10$ however, support my high-end.


                            With keys constantly raising and their cash market being relatively stable it is obvious that Refined Metal drops in price, as mentioned above, there is nothing that supports 0.12$ besides the sales at Marketplace.tf which should be unusable for of a multitude of reasons:


                            (1) Marketplace.tf has a very limited pool of sellers which leads to barely to no competition, therefore a healthy economy just can't exist on the site, people can list their metal for as much as they like and they will sell it eventually as there is no reason to sell for less, there is a huge demand for refined on Marketplace.tf (as shown by the sole amount of sales) yet there is very little demand for it outside of Marketplace.tf (which leads to it dropping, as sellers outside of marketplace.tf need to have very good prices to have any success in selling.


                            TL;DR: If Marketplace.tf would give the opportunity to sell refined to more people it would logically make sense to consider it usable as proof, however, if that'd ever happen, (which is unlikely) there will be competition on the site which will eventually lead to the market adjusting to the key price.


                            (2) The main reason people buy refined from the site is because it is the easiest and safest way to buy it, you can buy via whatever suits you best and there is never any type of fee (at least not to my knowledge), it's the total opposite of having to add a trader to wait for their response only to do a very slow and risky PayPal trade, with the only reason being a 0.02$ discount which is often lost due to fees anyways.


                            TL;DR: People are willing to pay more on Marketplace.tf as it is more convenient than any other way of buying refined.


                            (3) Backpack.tf is trying to capture the value of what items are commonly sold for among the community, with Marketplace.tf allowing few to sell their sales shouldn't be considered "among the community" (as it is only a select few which are able to sell on the site) which should make them invalid to use, I think the sellers @0.10$ (and even the 0.09$ sellers) struggling to sell any refined clearly show that 0.12$ can definitely not be considered a value for which Refined commonly sells for among the community. Even 0.10$ will probably end up being high, but the sellers did receive a few offers and the sales @0.10$ on marketplace.tf do support it so it is justified (for now). Logically 0.08$ - 0.09$ is probably the most accurate value, comparing the key/ref price to the price keys commonly sell for in money and the little success of the sellers @0.09, but the proof just isn't there.


                            TL;DR: Using Marketplace.tf as proof would go against the very basic idea of backpack.tf.


                            I hope I was able to justify my point and got it across well.

                              The people who downvoted you probably did not even read what you wrote. While I agreed with all the comments posted by others until now (especially the part countering where you dared use tf2depot), I gotta say you did manage to get your point across. Well, particulary the second point, sounds the most valid to me for not considering marketplace.tf. You should have put it first, because it is the very reason why your first point and your third point become valid.

                              If there was not such convenience with this website, marketplace.tf would not be an economy on its own, like you seemingly described in 1), but part of the whole refined economy, thus making each and every individual seller on Outpost a direct competitor. And for the same reason, it would have had to be considered "among the community".


                              Anyway, you actually changed my mind on something in one shot, which is extremely rare when it is about pricing/trading, kudos to you. :p

                                People struggle to sell their refined outside of reputable sites because of trust. There are extremely few reputable cash sellers of refined, and even 'trusted' people have dificulty selling because buyers lack the ability to pay with paypal or the seller isn't willing to do less than 50 per transaction.


                                Backpack.tf uses pricing from various aspects for all sales. Marketplace.tf sales are an accepted means for pricing unusuals with a range of what buyer paid and seller recieved, no differently than scm sales.


                                If you are saying marketplace.tf misrepresents what items have sold for, I believe that's a serious accusation that needs to be backed-up or put away.


                                Backpack.tf captures sales with pure sales and cash sales superceeding all. Marketplace.tf is a 'pure' sale.


                                Saying marketplace.tf should be excluded because of it's ease of use is like saying scm sales should be excluded from pricing as well. Saying marketplace.tf should be excluded because a limited number of people can sell there isn't a valid arguement either because even fewer sources are legitimate for paypal sales (with the necessary trust, paypal protection and reputation) in-game.


                                I understand your arguements. I understand the pricing shouldn't be based solely on marketplace sales. To exclude them as a counter arguement to your suggestion is foolery tho because obviously people are quite willing (more than half the time basing on marketplace sales graph) to pay .12 cents per ref.

                      You dont really have much proof at 0.09? You have two sellers:

                      http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/26056979 - no one commented on trade in 4 months | http://backpack.tf/trust/76561197989070952 his backpack rep isnt very current. Which gives me the idea to which he doesnt buy/sell items frequently. If i was to buy ref's i would most likely buy it from a ten cent seller than him as he only has a bp value of 350 and doesnt seem very active.


                      The other 9 cent seller seems decent but still having one solid proff at 9 cents insnt enough i believe 10 cent flat is best for the time being.

                        The market for metal is extremely small, barely anyone buys ref, that's why barely any high value traders even bother to trade it, that's why that guy doesn't get any comments, barely anyone wants to buy it.


                        This is more than enough proof to justify the range, still don't believe me?

                        https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5720f46b866747196100c6ea - was accepted with a single seller at low end and even that trade expired due to inactivity.

                        This website is also selling ref for 0.09: https://www.tf2depot.com/

                          I like how you have the audacity to claim marketplace.tf not being valid proof, and in the next breath list another cash sales website which supports your suggestion.

                          Regardless of Polar's previous comments about marketplace.tf not being usable. The site sells more refined than your entire suggestions proof (in stock amounts) by several thousand percent ( more than 40,000 pieces of refined sold in the past month.) Any reasonable trader would disregard his opinion based on sales volume alone. Regardless of wether he is a mod or not, he is wrong.

                          I should also point out for factuality that your comment @ :

                          "That is incorrect, marketplace.tf did infact support this: https://marketplace.tf/itemstats?sku=5002;6"


                          Is untrue, if you paid attention or had any experience buying/selling refined you would know that the ENTIRE amount (20884 refined) @ 0.09 cents was listed by geel, as people did not reclaim that metal from sweetstakes.tf bots and geel wanted to make room to add more marketplace.tf beta sellers.


                          Hope this clarifies some listed points here.

                          two sellers at 0.09 makes a range with 8 sellers at 0.10???? those are outliers d00d.

                            Two people selling refined at $0.09 and only a small number of refined sales at $0.09 on marketplace.tf doesn't make up the whole market. There are quite a few $0.10 sellers, however, refined on marketplace.tf are being sold at $0.12. This is why I don't agree with your suggestion.

                              I would have liked to have more sellers at 0.09$ for it to be in the range though. 0.10$ seems rather ok though

                                  Seeing about 25 sellers @ 9 cents on OPSkins and about 500+ @ 10 cents: http://imgur.com/16FvThr | https://opskins.com/?loc=shop_browse&app=440_2 sorry if this didn't help.

                                    1. You missed me buying @ 0.095 big boy http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/25674193 & http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/39876-b-keys165ref0095paypalamazon-whole-backpacks/

                                    2. With all the data here, you'd need to make a range of .09-.12, which would be .105 avg, which is what it is currently. So I don't see the point of this suggestion.

                                      A full explanation of why this suggestion is being accepted is outlined here - http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/54622-refined-metal-pricepricing-marketplacetf/


                                      Feel free to discuss there. If you quote my post, I will read and respond to your comment.