Suggestion: Purple Energy Aztec Aggressor at 84 keys

Price Suggestion

~43.5 keys

p.nrg

105 votes up

29 votes down

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This suggestion was closed Mon, 03 Jun 19 00:17:03 +0000 by the submitter.

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Comments

I can't add.

Sale 1: 84k

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561197964782863#!/compare/1555891200/1555977600

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198046102461#!/compare/1555891200/1555977600

Presidents Hotrod + PE Stainless + 4k in items/keys

68k on pot: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5cc1d219678072532f4b6ce3

12k on hotrod: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5cc152b16780727b9333f32d

68 + 12 + 4 = 74k

out-dated price on the pot, most recent sale was a blizz TC (priced at 58) + 15 pure. It hasnt been priced in 4 years but each time it has been repriced it goes up each time. hot rod price is fair. PE pot though needs some revision on its own before considered in the pricing of this. If you would like to submit this to be 85 then you should also consider other effects. ghosts and white lighting both significantly less than PE both for around 80k. Price should be based of consistency of other effects and updated prices on sales.

also at the time that this trade was made the hotrode still had a price of around 14-15,

Blizzardy tc isn't 58, the price on it is seven months old for clean and yours was duped. Two sales on the duped version show it's more reliably worth 53.

Hotrod price was almost a year old at the time of this trade, and is being updated with recent sales from around the time of your trade as well.

Prices have never been determined off other effects, only off sales.

considering duped prices is basing off of market supply and demand values there is no intrinsic value to duped being less than non-duped. I mean I guess you have a point with not considering other effects but if there is an owner of something like this PE hat, who hardly puts in an effort to sell it other than listing it. It's an unpriced heavy hat if you don't put in some effort it would honestly never sell. That would mean whatever it sells for is the actual price of it no matter what? if he sold for 50 keys pure that would price it at 50 (same price as stormy)? whats the point in having a system like that. There is a tier list of effects for a reason. Higher tier and more wanted effects are sold over the lesser. When this trade was made both ends of the trade believed the transaction that was being made was 95 and at the time some of the items that were being traded were worth more at the time. Shouldn't these variables be accounted for anywhere? Or do you really believe the entire price of a hat should be based on ONE single trade.

There seems to be a large grey zone not being covered here. If a hats price changed off of each individual trade one at a time and taking average ranges the market would be an extremely different place. This hat should hold to the value that the rest of them do. If you don't want to price it at 90 then at this point since only one trade has been made honestly just dont price it at all and wait for more sales to come along. Either consider other effects or just dont price it because one single trade that (according to updated prices) doesnt fall in line with other effect prices is not enough to price a hat.

Can you tell me how, for example, a white lightning aztec aggressor is in any way related to a purple energy one?

They are within the same tier (around). Can you tell me what the point is to going through the effort to submit for a reprice on a hat that has one single trade and you don't own any related hats but then proceeding to probably barely even read a defense for the price of the hat and try and give a witty response. The system your using is nonsensical and as it follows you haven't put up an appopriate defense for it yet. Did you even read what I said?

Swazzy submitted a reprice for 95 after he actually discussed with me what the price should be and we came to an agreement. There was some small evidence to reprice it down to 90, but 85 is getting rediculous

One more thing. If the pot was sold suddenly for 30 keys would that make the price of this hat worth 30 less than? even though at the time the pot was considered 75? No, it wouldn't. At the time of the purchase both ends believed the hotrod to be worth 15 ad the pot 70-75.

Hats aren't priced off 'beliefs'. I can believe my hat is 500 keys, but I can't price at that, it's ridiculous. Prices are determined by sales.

Please re-read previous statements I'm not here to repeat myself.

Me losing 10-20 keys should not be based on your failure to understand basic marketing principles.

Markets and economies are based on belief.

No, if the pot was sold for 30 keys, it would be below buyers, so it would be excluded.

It was a small example you're missing the point, again your extrapolating one small piece of information.

Well, I stand firm on this. Swazzy's suggestion is using wrong values.

The only grey zone here would be if we were to use a system of tiers to estimate values of hats instead of verified sales. We have priced all hats based on sales as long as I have been a moderator here. That eliminates any issues of bias or any "grey zones." We simply state the facts. It's for users to interpret / extrapolate as they see fit based on their trading experience.

Regarding duped hats. I did an analysis on this several years ago showing that a hat being duped matters on hats >30 keys in value. On average, those hats sold for ~10% less than non-duped hats. At the time, we used that as the standard and took 10% off all duped hats. Those statistics are now outdated. As such, we require suggesters to use actual sales on the duped item to use it as proof in a suggestion. As you said, being duped depends on the market. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't. Only way is by going off sales for the item. We cannot assume it has the same value as the clean hat.

Going off of the market should not imply just one sale though. Pricing this hat based off of one sale is rediculous you should at least look at other effects or honestly just keep it unpriced for now.

If the market shows one sale, pricing off the market is still valid.

Look into other effects? I am not sure how that would change the sale at 84, since that's what it sold for. We're not interested in other effects since this suggestion is for the purple energy aztec. As for your comment about the hats being priced differently at the time of the sale.... so what? The prices were outdated. As Polar said, "e simply state the facts. It's for users to interpret / extrapolate as they see fit based on their trading experience." This means that the prices we get are based on sales; price suggestions literally wouldn't exist otherwise. We use actual real sales as data points for the prices we display on items. Are you telling me the hotrod for example could still realistically fetch 15 keys? In any case I don't think the suggestion will get accepted anytime soon as we usually do end up waiting for more data points on single-sale unpriced hats anyway, but even then I still don't see why this is a problem. If another sale occurs, this suggestion can be closed and a new one can be opened that accurately reports that sale.

And what about the fact that some hats had higher value at the time the trade was made..

Neither hat had higher values at the time of the trade. If you can prove this I'd be happy to include it in the suggestion.

The mini for the TC was 54 pure putting the pot at at least 69 if you want to go there and I will look into seeing about the hotrod.

The mini for the TC was 53 pure, so the pot was put at 68.

https://gyazo.com/772e518cf8f44a94210e050b57c7fafd

also the price suggestion was made on the hotrod a day or 2 ago so that means at the current time we go off of the last price which was

Which is closer to the real price:

A) the price made a year before the sale

B) the price made two days after the sale

If you reprice so when a hats price is updated Every other hat that it was previously traded for in the past needs to be updated as well? This is not how it has ever been done. Its not our fault there wasn't an updated price at the time we made the trade. He wanted me to add 20 keys so I did then and some sweets on top. Using the price at the time and what we believed the hat to be worth would be more accurate to what this hat was sold for.

Yes, the price closer to the trade date will always be taken, even if it is after the trade is complete.

That hardly makes any sense. A hat is worth what it sells for at the time it was sold for (what would be fair based off of what you guys are saying) it would be around 88

Well, that would be possible if there was a price indate at the time it sold, but there wasn't. It was a year old.

Here me out, if you made this post the same day the trade was made you would of put it in that the hotrod was 15 and then if the hotrod was repriced a day or 2 later you would not have came back and resubmitted. The only reason you have the hotrod at that price was thats because it was priced at that when you made this post. No on goes back and redoes prices just because a hat in the past now changed.

If a hat's price is more than three months old, it has to be updated before it's used in a suggestion. If a new suggestion wasn't already made for the hotrod, I would have done it myself.

Imagine buying a hat for 90+ but then after you have already made the trade one of the hats that you sold got repriced and that lowers the value of the new hat you got. Is there not a problem with this? and I'll say it again the mini for the TC was 54 I provided proof.

What proof?

I sent this link.

https://gyazo.com/772e518cf8f44a94210e050b57c7fafd

Sure, it might be half a key higher but not enough to change the suggestion here

That would be one full key my friend. A key matters when you believed to put 90-95 into a hat and its being repriced at 84. Especially when it was already submitted at 90 so you went out of your way to care about 6 keys how could you not care about 1 key. Caring about 1 keys is pretty close to caring about 6 lmao

The trade was April 22nd is there anyway to check what the price was at that time?

The word 'duped' has been abused by scammers for years and should not be used.

Period.

Especially in pricing hats, you're incorporating their opportunistic practice and perpetuating a falsehood. So others can now be scammed...

Valve addressed this a fucking long ass time ago kids.

j58 wrote(but deleted it) "What are you talking about? Dupes consistently sell for less."

Why do you think that is j58?

people prefer cleans over dupes? this isn't that hard of a concept to grasp, if you'd like to have a conversation on it then I prefer you do it elsewhere.

Why do "people prefer cleans over dupes?" If you have grasped that concept, you should enlighten me. Because you exactly proved my point.

We aren't incoporating their practice, nor are we perpetuating a falsehood. Dupes have sold for less than cleans since I joined this site and it will likely remain that way. Price suggest the burning team captain off dupe sales and see what reactions you get.

Sure you are, so I obviously have a different opinion than you.

Go offer the kid that just unboxed a burning TC 30% less. Because from what I read on this site for many years, is that they care most about the little guy getting scammed. However, if you buy a premium account you can go right ahead and do just that and then use this site as proof.

Going to stop responding to these comments as they aren't related to the suggestion.

Did someone mention "duped"?

It's completely related, you just can't formulate an intelligent response to the question I posed. Instead you invoked the "grandfather clause."

I see the limitation and respectfully move on.

Pretty dick move to steal my suggestion

Had permission from two mods. Don’t use a single sale to mini a hat, it’s lazy and incorrect most of the time

You say don't use a single sale to mini a hat, but you're using a single sale to price a hat. Nice.

If there are more sales for the hat, then they should be used to mini it. Single sale minis are okay when there are no other sales, but both hats in question had more sales he failed to investigate.

He put In the effort to properly mini all hats involved, he had every right to counter it with a more accurate value. If you don't want it to happen in the future, make good quality work

Why is swazzy's considered inaccurate when this guy has the TC mini at 53 when it was 54 and he asked for proof of a hotrode mini for above 12 keys which can be found here

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198167885639#!/compare/1555804800/1555891200

If I am not mistaken.

Yes, that sale is 13 keys. However, there were also sales for the hotrod at 11 keys. Hence, it was priced at 11-13, and I took 12 as the true value for it.

Ok but since the price at the time was 15 and there is still at least one mini for 13 at the time of the trade don't you think thats only fair. Also one more time. Mini for the TC was 54

No, mini for the TC with two sales at 53 and one at 54 is 53.5. Not sure how that's so hard to understand.

No, the price at the time was NOT 15. I've tried explaining numerous times that the price was a year outdated and not truly representative of the value of the hotrod.

Yes, there was a trade for 13 keys. However, as I mentioned before, there was also a sale at 11. Therefore, I take the mean of the two. Always been that way.

The hats I mini'd were outdated at the time and I was unaware that they had accepted suggestions on it. Polar pointed out my error less than a day ago and I never even had a chance to correct it before this guy comes along and took it. Idc anymore but I should have had the time to re-suggest out of respect.

You took an outdated clean price on a duped recent hat. Mod gave permission to counter.

I am aware of that. I had a micro ready but then saw this up so ended up scrapping everything since it was basically a duplicate.

J made this suggestion 2 days ago, on april 25th at 3:34 pm, and those mini suggestions weren't up until a few minutes after that. You shouldn't have needed a chance to correct it, you should have put in the effort and made a quality suggestion so it wouldn't need fixing like this.

Ooze Defiant Spartan (48 Keys) + Green Energy Sinner's Shade + Showstopper Russian Arms Race + Strange Puggyback (~1 Key)

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198371355837#!/compare/1556841600/1556928000

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5caee11fd3817278235d9291 - Spartan suggestion at 48 Keys (could be 48.5 with my comment, but whatever)

Edit: Sinner has no Mini as of now.

Couple sinner sales happened

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198141832563#!/compare/1558051200/1558137600 https://bot.tf/stats/listings/4K7P30NY b/o 36, dp war pig + a few keys

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198141832563#!/compare/1557878400/1557964800 shade + 5.4 keys = haunted ghosts drills, drills needs a mini. Will be under b/o of 36 - https://bot.tf/stats/listings/Y878XJW4

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198043543691#!/compare/1558137600/1558224000

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198158206236#!/compare/1558137600/1558224000 this can probably be used on the vive

So the sale you mentioned is definitely higher

New sale on aztec - https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198089298088#!/compare/1558742400/1559174400. Warhood needs a mini

Here's a sale on the warhood worth looking into, whirly would need a mini.

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198089298088#!/compare/1558310400/1558483200

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198055622215#!/compare/1558310400/1558483200

There's some other sales in the warhood's history - https://backpack.tf/item/6818227433

This will need a couple more minis before we can see what the exact value of all the sales on the aztec are