Suggestion: Fragmented Quarks Head Prize at 571 keys

Price Suggestion

~900 keys

fragmented quarks

46 votes up

12 votes down

Related Suggestions

This suggestion was closed Tue, 18 Feb 20 00:12:32 +0000 by the submitter.

Comments can no longer be left on this suggestion.

Comments

https://marketplace.tf/items/tf2/30838;5;u137

https://backpack.tf/item/8348302375

$1000

Dusk shadow was quickselling

No other sales so it doesn’t matter

Kinda does, an inaccurate price based off a qs doesnt really mean anything and frankly is meaningless

To put it this way, its better to have something be undetermined than to have it be wrong.

Sold in well under 24 hrs, also would be better to hold out on this considering I already have an offer Im likely to take thats way above this.

Ok...then post the trade when it’s completed.

Theres no proof that it’s inaccurate because nothing counters the sale.

...Besides the fact that this was an obvious quicksell that didn't even take half a day to sell?

strange dark doorway punk pomp

That was a different situation, wasn't really listed so can't necessarily say whether or not it was a QS or not (altho we all know what happened there)

i price stuff of "quicksells" all the time

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e0d672e38e3bc2326284b56

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e094ad31bc4f00c88254e10

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e056cee3751a365a4530a12

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e1c89b0a7dbce6b5a33e968

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e2388802588571bf4108fcd

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e3990fb4f1c1b4be2648727

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e44599e3a0c7074ee5ca687

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e417556d9be2833cc0ada3e

all are valid sales so nothing stops them from being suggested

No traces of sale times in any of those suggs (and also none of them have passed) so I don't see your point.

more of the point is just that things selling low or fast don't matter when there is nothing else to go by

And now there is.

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198209640976#!/compare/1581465600/1581552000

Backpack.tf is supposed to show accurate prices. If you think a sale is a quicksale and is low, why are you trying to price it? Why would you want backpack.tf to show an inaccurate price? Just wait for more sales, posting low suggestions just makes people panic sell, it’s a self-fufilling prophecy.

Backpack is by no means designed to show accurate prices, it’s designed to show valid sales and leave the actual ‘value’ of the hat up to the user to estimate. Backpack can be a valuable tool when looking for past sales, but by no means should anyone rely on it solely to value a hat...doing so excludes other evidence that may have not been included at the time of sale.

I’ve never actually seen anyone panic sell a hat due to an accepted suggestion...it’s a generalization and not a very logical one by that.

Also, there is no real proof that the price is inaccurate. The only argument made is that it is ‘low’ is an opinion of a trader, no buyers or sellers countered it at the time of it being made.

J58=Payback own phrase "there is no real proof that the price is inaccurate"

10 hours ago, BlazingHailfire B> BPs put the main evidence that this price suggestion is inaccurate and based on a quicksale, so dont come here to show us your apparently price suggestion skills.

And you Offline, close this suggestion. You already have 2 sales:

1) 1000 usd, Dusk Shadow sold it in less than 12 hours indeed he added me because he wanted to quicksell it to me for that ammount (1000 usd)

2) Blazinghailfire sold for good unusual hats, that sale is much higher than 1000 usd (there is 2 discrepant sales). In these cases a 3rd sale is needed so according to backpack rules (not according j58), this hat needs a 3rd one but a 3rd sale will never happen due to im the current owner and i wont resell it.

End of the story, this fox will remain unpriced.

I’m not talking about this hat, this should remain unpriced

Why would it remain unpriced, Dusk said he was quickselling, sold in under 12 hours, immidiately resold for almost double that. Its not two discrepant sales, its a quicksell (which would be excluded) and a sale for unusuals.

third sale is needed

No its not, not when one sale was blatently a quicksell at a huge discount.

Seriously J why cant you ever just let people exclude a quicksell ffs

because if it was quicksold a second time then it would be a common trading point, and if it was sold for near 1300 a second time then it would be obvious to exclude the lower sale...without that information you can't just take one of them unless something directly counters the sale.

"huge discount" when there isn't even a price on it???

I didnt think Id have to spell it out but

Dusk wanted to cash out, so he listed his prize for a cheap price, much cheaper than what it could get. You can tell this was a massive discount by how quickly it sold. The same unusual then, in under a day, resold for over double that price, further cementing that the first sale was a massive discount. Its seriously just a bit of simple logic. Theres an obvious reason that quicksells arent included in suggestions, and there’s literally no arguement that the MP sale wasnt a quicksell.

quicksells are included in multiple suggestions as i posted above...

And none of those have a subsequent sale for 700 keys over the qs price...

value literally doesn't matter, they are included

Im not even gonna argue this anymore its so unproductive.

Im shocked that somebody with so much suggesting experience doesnt understand the basic concept of excluding quicksales when there are higher sales but in the end this sugg will be closed anyways.

I'm shocked someone with so little suggesting experience tries to argue his opinions as facts. Nowhere in site rules does it say quicksells need to be excluded.

"""Exceptions when buy orders don't necessarily counter lower sales:

Numbers Matter - if there is only 1 lonely buy order and 3 sales lower than that it probably doesn't counter. Also generic buy orders (any effect) are usually buying more than 1 copy of a hat.

Common Trading Point - if there is a huge number of sales at or around buyer prices then it might be included in the price range. Sellers being close to buy orders is also an indication for that.

Market Shifts - timing of buy orders and sales matter: If a sale took place before a buy order was created the seller obviously couldn't just "sell it to the buy order instead".

Counter Buy Orders - Buy orders created after a suggestion was made with the sole purpose of countering the suggestion will be structually ignored."""

This is assuming there are buy orders countering the low price, which there aren't.

Also, the 1300 sale was in a day...what's stopping you from labeling that a quicksell, by your logic?

Yes I quicksold it for unusuals makes big sense

I dont even know why youre bringing up buy orders cause I didnt even mention anything about that. Its even funnier cause none of those 3 things apply here.

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5e0e90c674e4880a4141fddd

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5b9c330144325a5436629b95

I havent even made that many suggestions but here are just 2 examples of suggs with excluded quicksells that went down without any controversy.

Backpack.tf is supposed to show accurate prices. The only reason the word estimate gets thrown around is because backpack.tf does not guarantee that you can sell it for that price.

Valid sales are sales that represent the price of the item, excluding all outliers. By your logic all sales including egregious outliers should be included in the bp.tf price. This is not the case for obvious reasons.

While in theory people should do there own research and not use bp.tf like a bible, 95% of traders are NOT experienced enough to do this. That’s why bp.tf exists in the first place - as a price guide for those who do not know the economy like the back of their hand. Backpack.tf should not show inaccurate prices (such as quicksells) or else we risk giving inaccurate information to the vast majority of users on the site.

As far as panic selling, I’m talking about open suggestions, not accepted ones. By the time they are accepted it’s too late. There are countless cases where a low suggestion appears and people panic sell to scrap.tf. Then nobody buys from scrap because of the suggestion, it remains unsold, and bam, suggestion accepted because it is now accurate. A self-fufilling prophecy.

High profile suggestors expressing these kinds of opinions is not only concerning to me, but to the future of the the site as a whole.

Is it inaccurate if the sales occurred and there is no evidence to counter them?

I am not making the argument that all sales should be included...I am arguing that -with no other evidence- pricing a hat off a single sale one may consider ‘low’ is completely normal in the scope of the site. Do you consider high suggestions like this to be ‘concerning’?

https://backpack.tf/suggestion/5d845051d3817225645fc3e6

Apparently me expressing an opinion that the site should continue with the current rules is now concerning.

1st point: Yes, it is inaccurate. Just because you are allowed to post inaccurate suggestions does not mean you should. (Yes, I know inaccurate is up for interpretation, but as an experienced trader I know you can tell, you even called the ones you linked "quicksells")

2nd point: As mentioned above, I agree that you can post them. That does not mean you should. As far as the high suggestions example, I would not want to post that suggestion just as much as I would not want to post a quicksell. Unfortunately high suggestions like that are more likely to be suggested because the new owner wants to raise the hat to what they paid, where if someone paid a quicksell price they would most likely not want it priced at that low because that would effect their ability to sell the hat.

If I was too harsh, my bad. All I am saying is that you are essentially advocating for making suggestions that YOU KNOW do not represent the price of items. I don't care if there are no rules against it, you shouldn't post them. Also as a side note, suggestions like the 8 you linked not only are potentially inaccurate, but increase mod workload as they are going to be left open and hit the backlog in 1-2 months. The mod will then have to do the suggestion themselves to determine if the suggestion should pass. Just wait a month and do that work yourself.

except they're all single sales, there's really no work involved there

There is work for the mods, they have to find all the new sales basically remake the suggestion once the suggestion hits the backlog.

You ignored my main point, I guess you are fine with making suggestions you know are inaccurate...

I’m fine making suggestions, whether they are accurate or not is my own opinion. If I choose not to price something based on my prejudices, then I am allowing my opinions to get in the way of established evidence.

https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198209640976#!/compare/1581465600/1581552000

Sold for a TR Bones, Violet Vortex Head Prize, Strange Clair Plumbers, Blizz Aztec Warrior, and Pyroland Daydream Candy Crown

Was the buyout still 1300 at the time?

Listed at 1350 if you wanna take that as buyout, although I thought this would be under that.

furry hat

i just want backpack.tf contribution points