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SoLd foR 1100 KEys purE.
https://gyazo.com/8d49dcaa4ab8a89dce1039c579342006
OnLy TraCkable sALe
ComPARe lInks won't woRk dUe TO too Many traDEs Being doNE in A shoRt perIoD.
https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198076534985#!/compare/1666483200/1666656000
HereS tHe cOMpare tHat mAKes tHE moSt seNSE.
I bOUght tWo PHAntoms, GE for 430 + prO ks spELled fesTIve SCATtergun (esT 100 kEYs) + an ANtlAnTis 2017 G2 HoLo (35 keyS)
AnD D@D foR 1100 PuRE fOr AddEd inFORmAtIOn.
pErFeCt MISC FOR vARious lOADOUTS FOR sPy
shaME IT WONT EVEr END UP ONT HE MARked
🔐SORry guyS, bUt I HaD tO gEt it, oNe Of mY lASt🔐.
This is an ape buy. congrats homie :)
Perhaps bought from an ape, but the price is more than justified in my eyes... Not that I'm known to buy for profit.
Fair fair. I was just joking with you. Still a nice buy homie.
Was 435 + the scatty and g2 sticker for the GE Phantom, my bad. Slight mistake, but not really relevant to the suggestion, anyway.
https://imgur.com/a/yXcUslg - The previous sale was for $800 (~460 Keys)
With 2 highly discrepant sales, this should remain unpriced.
The sheer disgregation of the item being sharked is crazy to me. If it were to ever be resold I would expect more than I paid for it looking at other miscs, or hell even the phantom with sister effect.. The morning glory ones priced at 700 and there are 3 of these in existence. Death at dusk is regarded as a better effect and the fact that NOTHING is said off of a person buying this item from (as far as I know, the unboxer) for 800 USD is fucking idiotic. I only knew after the fact that it was scammed, although I had my suspicion when I saw who I was dealing with.
There are a handful of larger "traders" who seems to be shielded by backpack.tf which is a site that has total monopoly btw. This is hurtful for the economy and progression with trust.
And in theory, if I just wait till this sale from "unboxer" is 3 months old, this suggestion would in theory be eligible to go through. The entire system is heavily twisted and illogical people in "power". Its sad to see the downfall of trading happening this fast, and not only at that, but even with monopoly of a database, bp.tf still manages to fuck up the scene.
Things are unchanged since 2016, with many examples, one of them being whenever a spec or pro ks kit has been applied to a Strange unique, skin or hats/unusuals, the prices are nullified according to backpack.tf. Easy fix would be to either add a percentage of the price of the kits, previous sales (if there are any) or simply just put them back to its original price, as in no pro/spec ks form.
I am sick and tired of mainly how shielded these outright sharkers are and for the time they have been shielded. I hate to deal with these people and Im going to make sure that I never do this again, because it somehow backfires even when I get good deals. 1100 is low for a 1 of 1 death at dusk misc, especially whereas its the only class specific one with that effect. Just so youre aware, this is not a personal attack on any mods specifically, but rather the system that is set in place, if anything the mods/price deciders are illogical with their decisions, even when they have proof of an instant of persuasion in a trade, or buying something for extremely cheap when the seller does not know the items worth. I am more than glad that Im soon to be done with dealing with this absolute garbage, since Im going to retire trading as soon as possible mainly due to the sheer amount of sharkers and how monopolised the trading and pricing has become.
While it can be helpful to compare a item's sales to those of the same item with a sister effect, that alone will not be the determining factor in a whether a sale is an outlier in a suggestion.
There are also instances where D@D items are valued the same as Morning Glory ones, such as:
https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Killer's%20Kabuto/Tradable/Craftable/89 - A Morning Glory Killer's Kabuto semi-recently sold for 500 Keys
https://backpack.tf/stats/Unusual/Killer's%20Kabuto/Tradable/Craftable/90 - Death at Dusk ones have been listed for several months at 500
https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198882175555#!/compare/1663286400/1663545600 - A Death at Dusk Hong Kong Cone sold for ~425 Keys
https://backpack.tf/profiles/76561198329796300#!/compare/1663459200/1664841600 - A Morning Glory one sold for ~410 Keys (it was all 3)
There's nothing explicitly about the D@D Phantom that says either one of its sales is more of an outlier than the other. For all we know, you could've overpaid for this. For how vastly different its 2 sales' values are, a third data point will be required to determine which of these 2 sales is the outlier. As I mentioned above, comparisons to sister effects and how each is "regarded" won't be enough.
If you think there was a scam or shark involved with the first sale, then make a report. This isn't the place to discuss that. We don't "shield" anyone if they're guilty either. If sufficient evidence is supplied that a user repeatedly offers imbalanced trades to other people, but there's no evidence of persuasion or manipulation, then we apply Premium bans. Examples of people who were banned in this manner include:
https://backpack.tf/u/76561198148511293
https://backpack.tf/u/76561198069559160
https://backpack.tf/u/76561198140010255
If evidence of persuasion or manipulation is supplied, then we fully ban those users. Examples of people who were banned in this manner include:
https://backpack.tf/u/76561198847680167
https://backpack.tf/u/76561198197739413
If you wait for 460 to become outdated, that won't make 460 magically invalid. A sale reaching 3 months in age isn't a hard cutoff for what we look at when reviewing newer sales. If previous sales happened within 3 months of a recent sale, we'll take a look at those older sales when determining if the newest sale is an outlier. The fact that the 460 sale occurred a mere 4 days prior to 1100 will emphasize that here.
I'm sorry you're unhappy about this having to remain unpriced, but like I mentioned above, a third explicit data point for this item will be necessary to determine which of the two current sales is the outlier.
I am fine with the MISC being unchanged, you mentioned hats as a counterclaim. At least my examples was logically bound to a similar item to the one in question. You mentioned Kabuto and HKC. Both of which obviously being hats. Im going to take a pretty basic example of Burning flames here, where the price of a burning flames phantom vs the hats are consistently (going by buy orders and sell orders) close to double their value. I pick this item due to its high prestigious value in the trading scene and collectors scene making it close to valid in this conversation. (nor is it a great combo effect which is the same for D@D). Also the fact that you are showing hats instead of miscs in comparison is absolutely illogical and to me, shows either a massive lack of knowledge in the field, or straight up shielding the person. There are no other reasons for doing this.
I dont have time to go out of my way to make a massive well-written and well-thought out thread to call this person, amongst a handful of others out for sharking, although this is something I wish to do prior to my exit, I simply dont think I will have time nor energy to try to beat logic into peoples brains, since this apparently seems impossible to do.
Doing research on "this guy" shouldnt even be needed, theres overwhelming clear evidence, AND IM NOT ALONE IN THIS. Throughout countless of larger legitimate traders and collectors, I have only heard the same thing, never have I ever heard someone agree with his way of "trading". Its not ethical nor do I think I would classify it as legal. The fact that youre asking for proof tells me that people are afraid of going out of their way to speak to you guys in bp.tf about this guy, since he has been doing this for YEARS, and a fuck-ton of people knows this. There are two times where Ive tried to contact whoever sold this person their items, and none of them naturally never accepted my add, even in one of the cases where I waited a year. This is obviously to talk to them about how hard they got sharked and inform them of how to reduce the chances of this happening again. It is, to my knowledge impossible to get information using anything but chat logs/ talking to the victims, that is eligible enough for you guys to take action.
The fact that I feel disrespected after being in this community for soon a decade, all credibility just being, what feels like, stripped away from me. It shows that doing trades clean is punishable and doing the opposite is allowed. 1100 for a 1 of 1 limited MISC, and that effect being high tier, is not only not overpaying, its pretty damn decent. Even with this being excluded, and trying to shield the sharker, feel free to say that all his buys FROM UNBOXERS are qucksells at a rate lower than 40% whereas a normal quicksell would be sold at 60-70% depending on the fluidity of the item. If someone buys an item knowing the item will sell for 2.4x rate, and YOU ARE DEFENDING THIS, I am not the one looking bad in this situation. It seems like theres some disconnect of logical and bare ethics in the entire trading scene at the moment, and its quite honestly fucking ruining the entire thing. IMAGINE knowing it will sell for 2.4x and have mods and an entire database and site whos known for having a monopoly on the entire thing, defends this. Like come on, open your eyes, this is a disgrace and it directly hurts the trading scene.
Leave the phantom unchanged, its not like my backpack value is close to its actual value anyway, dont let sharkers get away with another 6 years please. I only want good for this community and sometimes, calling out absolute dickwards has to be the way to go. Sorry for all this being pushed on one mod, its obviously not a "one-person-in-power-problem" and youre being loaded with complaints that is going towards the entirety of a falling kingdom.
I prefer to keep discussions on suggestions to remain on-topic, but since multiple different topics are recurring themes in this comment section, I will address all of them. The last few lines are the relevant ones for the decision, the rest either serves to support, or to address problems brought up.
You keep bring up that we "shield" people, but not accepting this suggestion is not shielding anyone. His trading business has nothing to do with this suggestion. Personally, I have very strong opinions on people that actively shark, but to deal with price suggestions, we as moderators have to remain objective. Not every sale that is lower than a similar effect is a shark; not every item bought form an unboxer is sharked. We are not here to judge on what people pay, we're only here to report data points. There used to be a time where we would not accept suggestions based on single sales because it is statistically impossible to determine whether or not that sale is an outlier. Over time, we've decided to allow them so long as they are the only usable sale, or there is clear and objective evidence to rule out one sale as the outlier while ensuring the other one is not. "The trader buys hats from unboxers" or "He has paid low prices for other hats" is not an objective argument against the trade. Similar to how we cannot rule out collectors purchases for being too high by default (even though most - if not all - are statistical outliers), we cannot just disallow the purchases of profit flippers.
These nuances should make it clear that it is very difficult to deal with price suggestions with one set of rules. We try to take everything into account, but we have to remain objective. One important point that is completely overlooked here is that we should not only check if the other sale is low, but we should also ensure this sale isnt high. You compare it with MG, the sister effect, and while such a comparison means little in a suggestion like this, it is the perfect example for me here: MG being 700 does not mean 460 is low for this. If it was, would it not also be a similar indication that 1100 is high here? The hat examples provided here are not meant to compare hats with miscs, they are meant to point out that DaD =/= higher than MG by default, which is more fair than the subjective claim that it would be. Do not mistake any of our statements as lack of knowledge in the field; your claim that it must be incompetence or "shielding" is preposterous. Again, we're not here to judge on whether or not something was a good trade, or whether or not someone paid enough/too much. We're not here to price items at what traders think they should be priced at, nor are we dictating the market. The only thing we do is report sales that occur to give people an impression of what items sell for. If people wish to take it as a 'bible', then that's not on us. If people refer to our prices in discussions, that's only logical. It has nothing to do with causing the downfall of trading or (ab)using power. This remaining unpriced does not change this item's absolute value, nor should it change your appraisal of it. For you, it is clearly worth 1100, and if that is as low as you claim it is, you should have no issue reselling it when the time comes, regardless of whether it is priced now. With that, we are not disrespecting you, or punishing your trading practices (or "allowing the opposite", whatever that means).
Anything said about sharking here does not serve a purpose on the suggestion. Many of the points you make actually solidify why we cannot call things outliers based on percentages. "Normal quicksales are 60-70% depending on the fluidity" - the last 4 words say it all. It varies per case. There is no default for when something is a 'quicksale'. Similarly, you cannot say that if someone paid "40%", that they are a shark. 40% of what? of what YOU think the item is worth? of what it could potentially resell for? Of its old price? There are plenty of items that have wildly discrepant sales (more often than not due to collectors paying much more than anyone else would actually). Should we ban every trader that has ever sold an item at 40% of an items listed price, or - even more ridiculous - of what other traders think an item should be worth for being sharks? Discrepancy happens, and it is our task to determine outliers.
That brings us to the only relevant part - determining outliers. As said, this needs to be done objectively, and in this case I see no solid arguments to prove beyond question that 1) 460 is an outlier, and 2) 1100 is not. Keep in mind that 460 being low is no guarantee that 1100 isnt high, and if sales are as discrepant as this, there need to be strong arguments to prove both the aforementioned points. As they lack here, this should remain unpriced for having two sales that are too discrepant.
I'm sorry, but this shit is a disgrace and Im fed up ignoring this fact, as you guys should be too.
Forgot to mention, the morning glory price sugg that went through is over a year old at this point at 700 keys.
You genuinely cant defend an 800 USD transaction for the d@d.
https://images.emojiterra.com/google/android-11/512px/1f40c.png
morning glory is better effect ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
You fucking troll xd.
Whether as to what effect is "better" is subjective, however;
This doesnt change the fact that D@D is a rarer effect, and has a higher demand to supply ratio.
They dont sell as often as MG due to this, and therefore the D@D prices are more out of date than MG.
You can pretty much pick out any item of the both effects, and the price are going to be quite similar even when theres far more morning glory's
or the price has been far more updated than the D@D due to the explained more recent sales.
Thanks for a little bit of trolling, wish I could do the same, but unfortunately, Im actually trying to make a positive change here, I dont know if youve noticed (lol).
when will your copium reserves run dry?
Brother, I know youre not much of a trader, and neither am I anymore. But Im fed up with sharking at a larger scale, which is the main reason of this "thread". Idc if it remains unpriced, as mentioned..
Last stage of grief is acceptance ʕっ•ᴥ•ʔっ