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I'm seeing evidence that the current price of keys is between 68.66 - 69.33. Looking at trades on Gladiator.tf and TF2Autobot's discord, I'm seeing the majority of trades taking place around 69 refined. The vendors are buying keys anywhere from 67.00 - 69.22 refined, and selling for much higher.
Since the last suggestion of 56.77-56.88, the price dipped down to a low point of 48.33 - 49.11 around September 1st, then has been steadily increasing by around 0.66 refined every day since. Here's how Prices.tf shows the price changes of a key since the last suggestion:
I've been buying several dozen keys lately, and have been seeing the prices growing higher than the previous suggestion from two months ago. I'm specifically making this suggestion because I'm seeing classified listings for other items that are listed at something like "1 key 65 refined" showing up as "2.14" keys and getting sorted higher than other listings that are just offering the more valuable 2 pure keys. I have to go back a couple pages to find the real "best" listings.
This is my first ever price suggestion, but I think I've followed the rules! Let me know if this evidence isn't sufficient and I can collect some more transactions. I tried to keep my evidence to the past 24 hours of trades, since the price has been steadily increasing.
This is very detailed for your first suggestion my friend. It's hard finding the exact proposed price (ex. 69.88-70) when the price keeps moving, and I think the new proposed price is fine and fair. The community needs key prices to be updated with valid proof, and we couldn't ask for anything better than this.
Range is a bit off I think but its significantly better than the current key price so it'll prob be fine unless keys continue to increase in price these coming days
Hopefully we don't have to wait 2 months before the next update :) With it rising 0.66 refined each day, it's hard for my proposed range not to be immediately outdated. I don't mind making another detailed suggestion next week if it continues to rise.
Unfortunately I don't think this will pass because keys will likely stabilize at their pre-summer event price of 71-73 ref. Quicksell Store bots (Key bot 1 and Key bot 2) have been actively pushing the prices back up and are currently buying at 69.88 already. At the 71-73 ref price point, you an buy keys for 1.90 Mannco/2.00-2.05 MKPT, trade for ref, sell the ref for 3 cents after fees, for ~2.10 per key.
But great suggestion for one of your first. TF2 autobot discord is great for suggestions.
I don't understand the problem - do key price suggestions need to be on a stable price? I thought that the key price suggestion rules said if the price changes by more than 0.66 refined, a new key suggestion can be made immediately. So if it rises to 71-73 refined next week, even if it's not a stable price, can't we just immediately make a new key suggestion..?
For suggestions the low/high end should match with the buyers/sellers. It's just that buyers are already higher than your low end so this probably won't pass, but I'd say just leave it up for now for one of the price mods to comment.
Ah, understood. At the time I started writing my suggestion, it was matching the evidence I found for buyers and sellers, however when I finished publishing the post the classifieds had already increased. The price is increasing at 0.66 refined steadily each day, so I think it's impossible for me to make an evidence-based price suggestion without it immediately being outdated. If this one is no longer agreeable with the current price, I can make a more updated one... that would itself become outdated immediately. 😅
Yeah in terms of your evidence you nailed it. It's just that Key bot 1/2 (quicksell store) have been pushing the prices back up steadily for over a month. Kinda crazy it went up by nearly a ref since you posted.
Unfortunately I don't think this will pass because keys will likely stabilize at their pre-summer event price of 71-73 ref. At this price point, you an buy keys for 1.90 Mannco/2.00-2.05 MKPT, trade for ref, sell the ref for 3 cents after fees, for ~2.10 per key.
But great suggestion for one of your first. TF2 autobot discord is great for suggestions.
I definitely support this suggestion
you guys really want to pay 100 ref per keys huh.
Oh god no, I don't want to pay more than I have to. I've been buying keys with my refined to unbox things, it's in my best interest to have the key price as low as possible. This is about documenting the current price so the site's classifieds are accurate. Having an up-to-date price on backpack.tf doesn't increase the price of a key. I'll make more suggestions as the price increases or (hopefully) decreases.
Edit: didn't mean for this comment to come off argumentative, apologies. I'm just pationate when it comes to grinding low tier lol
Lower key to ref prices means the craftable item with no sink will cost more. Refined has no worthwhile sink and thus will always increase in quantity. So no. No you don't want lower Key to Ref prices. Because that means a currency that will infinitely increase in supply will also go up in price. It makes no sense.
You are basically saying I want to buy 1 dollar worth of gold for 1 USD meanwhile 5 dollars USD is printed out of thin air a day. The only viable solution would be a worthwhile item to craft with ref, like say TOD tickets. But that won't happen because the only way for TOD to come into existence is by buying them from valve or free gifts from valve. This problem has been going on since Keys were 2.55 ref in 2010. Valve legit needs to completely reconstruct the crafting system from the bottom up, but they won't because TF2 brings in roughly 25 mill a year from MVM alone with minimal effort on their part.
I'm reading your post and it seems like you're talking about an inflationary vs. a deflationary economy when it comes to the relationship between refined and keys. I'm not arguing for a deflationary economy. I understand why key prices increase, given that there's no real sink for refined anymore. I traded back in the early 2010s and remember when keys were 3 to 4 refined.
When I say "it's in my best interest to have the key price as low as possible", I'm responding to the original comment, which suggested that I want to pay 100 refined per key. My price suggestion is not an attempt to pay 100 refined per key. My price suggestion is to document the current price, not to raise the price to be higher than it's actually worth.
If anything, since I'm purchasing keys with my refined, my bias would be towards setting the key value lower than it's actually worth. That's not the case here though - I'm proposing a price that reflects the past 24 hours at the time I made the suggestion. When I say that I want the price of keys to "(hopefully) decrease", I'm saying that out of the interest of buying keys with refined.
Oh yeah sorry if my comment came off argumentative, I was just explaining why key to ref price will generally always go up. I too would like to pay 3 ref per key again. Or two craft hats.
All good, thanks for clearing it up ^_^ I miss the days where it made sense to spend refined on crafting hats too, that was a decent sink of refined.
There are some good crafts but it's just gambling for profit at this point. Trying to craft objectors is a way better sink than craft hats because certain classes have a 1:6 chance of crafting which is pretty decent. Some class/weapon tokens are also more valuable once crafted for some reason lol. Spy tokens sell for 0.27
thats not how a price suggestion works lol
even if the price is moving, I think the key price, sadly, needs to be updated.
I agree with the sentiment that this needs to be updated asap. Buy orders are convoluted because there are certain buyers paying X keys and 65 ref, and the site deems that 65 as more than a key at the current price, putting them ahead of buy orders which just offer another key, that can't be purchased for 65 anymore. Upvote for this reason alone, to make classifieds more accurate
Yes! It's that exact frustration that caused me to make this suggestion.
The price has become stable around 71 ref so you'd have a wider and more accurate price range if you waited a couple of days
I agree that the price has increased to 71 refined. I still think still it's continuing its trend of increasing by ~0.66 refined each day. (This suggestion of 69 refined is 2.5 days old, which perfectly lines up with the 0.66 * 2.5 days = 2 refined difference)
I definitely think that even with the instability of the prices making the suggestion no longer accurate, we should just update it to this for now. It'll be far more accurate and helpful for classified listings than what it's at currently. We can update again once it's stabilized. Tired of waiting!
But the logic is key prices won't go up indefinitely so wait until they've stabilized around its apex
It doesn't even need to be stabilized, we can just make another price suggestion as the price increases. Nobody says we have to wait 2 months between updates!
Looks good, also logical that the ref to key rate increases as TF2 has been more popular during the summer (based on the initial spike of players after summer update, I haven't checked steamdb since! So grains of salt are advised)
Hello! Thank you for attempting this suggestion, as an update on Keys is desperately needed. Key buyers and sales are above 70 now (sitting around the 71 mark currently) so although this is a step in the right direction, it's still not "close enough" to accept here.
Autobot and Glad will be your friends when making Key suggestions. I should add that the extra words that you have included aren't super needed here and could be removed so that the proof is easier and quicker (and therefore quicker to accept).
If you could try again, that would be great. You can always look to previous suggestions on keys for some idea of what should and shouldn't be included.
Sounds good, thanks for the feedback. I'll make another more-recent post with less text. :)
Thank you! Keys are still ever-increasing. But if you can make a broad range then I can accept pretty pronto.
If you are in the backpack.tf discord channel, you can just ping me with a link to your new suggestion so we can get keys updated!
Oh, interesting - I thought a tighter range was desired. I am there, I'll ping you :)
I'm seeing evidence that the current price of keys is between 68.66 - 69.33. Looking at trades on Gladiator.tf and TF2Autobot's discord, I'm seeing the majority of trades taking place around 69 refined. The vendors are buying keys anywhere from 67.00 - 69.22 refined, and selling for much higher.
Since the last suggestion of 56.77-56.88, the price dipped down to a low point of 48.33 - 49.11 around September 1st, then has been steadily increasing by around 0.66 refined every day since. Here's how Prices.tf shows the price changes of a key since the last suggestion:
https://imgur.com/DOPYfcZ
I've been buying several dozen keys lately, and have been seeing the prices growing higher than the previous suggestion from two months ago. I'm specifically making this suggestion because I'm seeing classified listings for other items that are listed at something like "1 key 65 refined" showing up as "2.14" keys and getting sorted higher than other listings that are just offering the more valuable 2 pure keys. I have to go back a couple pages to find the real "best" listings.
This is my first ever price suggestion, but I think I've followed the rules! Let me know if this evidence isn't sufficient and I can collect some more transactions. I tried to keep my evidence to the past 24 hours of trades, since the price has been steadily increasing.
=== Classifieds ===
Some snapshots taken across ~30 minute timespan:
Snapshot 1
Snapshot 2
Snapshot 3
Snapshot 4
=== Vendors ===
Scrap.tf key prices: 67.00 - 73.00 (Image)
Stn.trading key prices: 69.22 / 73.22 (Image)
Quicksell.store prices: 69.22 / 70.55 (Image)
Prices.tf price history: 68.66 / 69.00 (Image)
=== TF2Autobot ===
69 ref sale (Image)
68.66 ref sale(Image)
69.22 ref sale (Image)
68.33 ref sale (Image)
69.22 ref sale (Image)
68.33 ref sale (Image)
69 ref sale (Image)
69 ref sale (Image)
69.55 ref sale (Image)
69 ref sale (Image)
69 ref sale (Image)
69 ref sale (Image)
=== Gladiator.tf ===
Stats / Image
Past 24 hours:
- 1 @ 55 ref
- 2 @ 68 ref
- 2 @ 68.11 ref
- 1 @ 68.33 ref
- 1 @ 68.55 ref
- 31 @ 68.66 ref
- 11 @ 68.77 ref
- 11 @ 68.88 ref
- 9 @ 69 ref
- 1 @ 69.22 ref
This is very detailed for your first suggestion my friend. It's hard finding the exact proposed price (ex. 69.88-70) when the price keeps moving, and I think the new proposed price is fine and fair. The community needs key prices to be updated with valid proof, and we couldn't ask for anything better than this.
Range is a bit off I think but its significantly better than the current key price so it'll prob be fine unless keys continue to increase in price these coming days
Hopefully we don't have to wait 2 months before the next update :) With it rising 0.66 refined each day, it's hard for my proposed range not to be immediately outdated. I don't mind making another detailed suggestion next week if it continues to rise.
Unfortunately I don't think this will pass because keys will likely stabilize at their pre-summer event price of 71-73 ref. Quicksell Store bots (Key bot 1 and Key bot 2) have been actively pushing the prices back up and are currently buying at 69.88 already. At the 71-73 ref price point, you an buy keys for 1.90 Mannco/2.00-2.05 MKPT, trade for ref, sell the ref for 3 cents after fees, for ~2.10 per key.
But great suggestion for one of your first. TF2 autobot discord is great for suggestions.
I don't understand the problem - do key price suggestions need to be on a stable price? I thought that the key price suggestion rules said if the price changes by more than 0.66 refined, a new key suggestion can be made immediately. So if it rises to 71-73 refined next week, even if it's not a stable price, can't we just immediately make a new key suggestion..?
For suggestions the low/high end should match with the buyers/sellers. It's just that buyers are already higher than your low end so this probably won't pass, but I'd say just leave it up for now for one of the price mods to comment.
Ah, understood. At the time I started writing my suggestion, it was matching the evidence I found for buyers and sellers, however when I finished publishing the post the classifieds had already increased. The price is increasing at 0.66 refined steadily each day, so I think it's impossible for me to make an evidence-based price suggestion without it immediately being outdated. If this one is no longer agreeable with the current price, I can make a more updated one... that would itself become outdated immediately. 😅
Yeah in terms of your evidence you nailed it. It's just that Key bot 1/2 (quicksell store) have been pushing the prices back up steadily for over a month. Kinda crazy it went up by nearly a ref since you posted.
Just as an example, here is a recent suggestion I made that I closed cause of buyers going up: https://backpack.tf/suggestion/65174bd4d431d2ee300d73b0
I definitely support this suggestion
you guys really want to pay 100 ref per keys huh.
Oh god no, I don't want to pay more than I have to. I've been buying keys with my refined to unbox things, it's in my best interest to have the key price as low as possible. This is about documenting the current price so the site's classifieds are accurate. Having an up-to-date price on backpack.tf doesn't increase the price of a key. I'll make more suggestions as the price increases or (hopefully) decreases.
Edit: didn't mean for this comment to come off argumentative, apologies. I'm just pationate when it comes to grinding low tier lol
Lower key to ref prices means the craftable item with no sink will cost more. Refined has no worthwhile sink and thus will always increase in quantity. So no. No you don't want lower Key to Ref prices. Because that means a currency that will infinitely increase in supply will also go up in price. It makes no sense.
You are basically saying I want to buy 1 dollar worth of gold for 1 USD meanwhile 5 dollars USD is printed out of thin air a day. The only viable solution would be a worthwhile item to craft with ref, like say TOD tickets. But that won't happen because the only way for TOD to come into existence is by buying them from valve or free gifts from valve. This problem has been going on since Keys were 2.55 ref in 2010. Valve legit needs to completely reconstruct the crafting system from the bottom up, but they won't because TF2 brings in roughly 25 mill a year from MVM alone with minimal effort on their part.
I'm reading your post and it seems like you're talking about an inflationary vs. a deflationary economy when it comes to the relationship between refined and keys. I'm not arguing for a deflationary economy. I understand why key prices increase, given that there's no real sink for refined anymore. I traded back in the early 2010s and remember when keys were 3 to 4 refined.
When I say "it's in my best interest to have the key price as low as possible", I'm responding to the original comment, which suggested that I want to pay 100 refined per key. My price suggestion is not an attempt to pay 100 refined per key. My price suggestion is to document the current price, not to raise the price to be higher than it's actually worth.
If anything, since I'm purchasing keys with my refined, my bias would be towards setting the key value lower than it's actually worth. That's not the case here though - I'm proposing a price that reflects the past 24 hours at the time I made the suggestion. When I say that I want the price of keys to "(hopefully) decrease", I'm saying that out of the interest of buying keys with refined.
Oh yeah sorry if my comment came off argumentative, I was just explaining why key to ref price will generally always go up. I too would like to pay 3 ref per key again. Or two craft hats.
All good, thanks for clearing it up ^_^ I miss the days where it made sense to spend refined on crafting hats too, that was a decent sink of refined.
There are some good crafts but it's just gambling for profit at this point. Trying to craft objectors is a way better sink than craft hats because certain classes have a 1:6 chance of crafting which is pretty decent. Some class/weapon tokens are also more valuable once crafted for some reason lol. Spy tokens sell for 0.27
thats not how a price suggestion works lol
even if the price is moving, I think the key price, sadly, needs to be updated.
I agree with the sentiment that this needs to be updated asap. Buy orders are convoluted because there are certain buyers paying X keys and 65 ref, and the site deems that 65 as more than a key at the current price, putting them ahead of buy orders which just offer another key, that can't be purchased for 65 anymore. Upvote for this reason alone, to make classifieds more accurate
Yes! It's that exact frustration that caused me to make this suggestion.
The price has become stable around 71 ref so you'd have a wider and more accurate price range if you waited a couple of days
I agree that the price has increased to 71 refined. I still think still it's continuing its trend of increasing by ~0.66 refined each day. (This suggestion of 69 refined is 2.5 days old, which perfectly lines up with the 0.66 * 2.5 days = 2 refined difference)
I definitely think that even with the instability of the prices making the suggestion no longer accurate, we should just update it to this for now. It'll be far more accurate and helpful for classified listings than what it's at currently. We can update again once it's stabilized. Tired of waiting!
But the logic is key prices won't go up indefinitely so wait until they've stabilized around its apex
It doesn't even need to be stabilized, we can just make another price suggestion as the price increases. Nobody says we have to wait 2 months between updates!
Looks good, also logical that the ref to key rate increases as TF2 has been more popular during the summer (based on the initial spike of players after summer update, I haven't checked steamdb since! So grains of salt are advised)
Hello! Thank you for attempting this suggestion, as an update on Keys is desperately needed. Key buyers and sales are above 70 now (sitting around the 71 mark currently) so although this is a step in the right direction, it's still not "close enough" to accept here.
Autobot and Glad will be your friends when making Key suggestions. I should add that the extra words that you have included aren't super needed here and could be removed so that the proof is easier and quicker (and therefore quicker to accept).
If you could try again, that would be great. You can always look to previous suggestions on keys for some idea of what should and shouldn't be included.
Sounds good, thanks for the feedback. I'll make another more-recent post with less text. :)
Thank you! Keys are still ever-increasing. But if you can make a broad range then I can accept pretty pronto.
If you are in the backpack.tf discord channel, you can just ping me with a link to your new suggestion so we can get keys updated!
Oh, interesting - I thought a tighter range was desired. I am there, I'll ping you :)
keys is like 70+ref everywhere now